2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

aw, I'm sorry! I was just being a dick.

this weekend's Stupid Controversy will be the Wright nonsense. Limbaugh and The Corner can't shut up about it. Chris Matthews was on "The Today Show" defending Obama today.

Hooray it's looking a bit less Crick & Watson, that poll graf.

this is getting into primary fanfic territory, but i really want Obama to deliver a message that puts the victim-politics, anti-patriotism, AND funny-name memes to bed: that he <3 America like a son of a bitch because a life like his could not have occurred in any other country

it seems clear to me that his candidacy could be and should be a reminder not just of Selma and the triangle trade, but also of Ellis Island, even back to Plymouth Rock -- you know, "we were all slaves, or chance laborers, or refugees, or fortune hunters, or outcast pilgrims" etc. but then, i'm not a racist.

i've been thinking a lot about the identity game in this race, esp concerning older women's identification with HRC. i don't have any clear thought, but i liked both these pieces, about the old/young split w/in feminism:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/michelle_goldberg/2008/03/hell_hath_no_fury.html

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080324/valenti

Dang, a real now-I-feel-old moment: I'm reading the New Yorker profile of Michelle Obama and just realized we graduated high school the same year.

^^^ obv that line of rhetoric i've sketched out is touchy to say the least, and kind of glib w/r/t to the real state of race in this country. but the idea that the extent to which he is not white = the extent to which he is not a 'real american' needs to be taken on.

xp

that Goldberg piece is really good - the "feminist = Hillary supporter" axiom reminds me of the similarly flawed "Jew = Israel supporter" fallacy. The presumption involved in both cases irritates the hell out of me.

If bill is first spouse then presumably as a former president he will be security cleared. I can't get the image out of my head of him wandering into the Situation room in his boxers t-shirt and dressing gown to dispense helpful advice.

possibly at 3am.

Somewhere a phone is rining at the white house, will Bill or Hillary get there first?

Bill's . . . preoccupied.

There's a video game in there somewhere.

Bill could be the Billy Carter of the Clinton II administration, with his own beer and everything.

obviously I am extrapolating here from an image of him lolling around the east wing eating a lot of pork rinds.

Bubba Beer

one of TPM's readers, on its home page:

The Wright time bomb appears to be detonating, now that the horse race narrative has stalled and the media needs new material. The inadequacy of Obama's response is deeply discouraging. I was very excited about Obama, but I suddenly think Wright is going to deal a death blow to him on the "electibility" front. Michelle Obama's comments and now the man who lead him to Jesus is saying "God Damn America", and all BO can say is "I disagree"? He has to thow him under the bus and then back up over him again, but it does not appear that he will. Not clear it would even help that much, given the depth and length of their relationship. Sad to say, but it's best this happen now rather than in October. As distasteful as her tactics have been, I suddenly think we may be better off in November with Hillary. Wright is cancer.

^^^bullshit

this will all blow over in a few weeks

it's going to come back in the GE.

He's got a tough decision to make about what to say, but I don't think he's said enough.

first of all, it doesn't fit into a larger narrative ("wait, I thought he was a muslim!" etc). secondly, the guy serves no role in Obama's campaign nor is he a policy advisor or anything like that. third, there's no scandal, no wrongdoing, no conflict of interest, etc. just a "crazy guy" saying "crazy things". Politicians ALWAYS have supporters that mouth off irresponsibly (any number of examples on the religious right; Ferraro haha; etc.) All he has to do is put a little distance between himself and Wright and wait for it to blow over. This thing has no legs.

(many xps)

that's what's so irritating about the ferraro flap: she said "ppl only like this guy because he's black."

1st response: that's offensive.

2nd response: that's not actually true at all.

3rd and most important response: wait a minute, geraldine, your position only makes sense if you think HRC is better purely on those kinds of identity grounds -- you think we have a chance to elect a (platonic) WOMAN and its being ruined by an attempt to elect a (platonic) BLACK MAN! and this basic "facial" contest is actually more important than comparing what they offer on the merits, or how they've campaigned, or what their records show on women's issues or any other kind of issues.

Also, here's what McCain's people are saying re. Wright, here on MSNBC:

Joe: So this isn't an issue for John McCain.

Charlie Black: I don't think Sen. McCain wants to get in the middle of a discussion about Sen. Obama's former pastor, or his faith. He believes that people who endorse you, people who befriend you, are entitled to their own views, but you are not personally held accountable. That when someone endorses you or befriends you, they are embracing your views - the candidate's views - not the other way around.

well, he's on Obama's "African American Religious Leadership Council" - which just seems like a formaility to me but whatever. People on huffpo are acting like he's a senior advisor or on his finance comittee or something.

And really, I think McCain's pastor's comments are far more troubling. "Islam must be destroyed?"But I guess thats a more popular sentiment than black nationalism in America today.

(btw here are some responses to Valenti's nation article i linked to above:

http://www.thenation.com/bletters/20080324/valenti

i know which ones sound thoughtful and which ones sound depressing to me, but yknow, i'm biased)

the fact that Wright is retiring (this month? next?) should help I think

I think it's understandable that Obama doesn't want to stab the guy in the back on his way out the door after a long career and I expect (hope) he will distance himself a little bit in the next few months

Charlie Black: I don't think Sen. McCain wants to get in the middle of a discussion about Sen. Obama's former pastor, or his faith. He believes that people who endorse you, people who befriend you, are entitled to their own views, but you are not personally held accountable. That when someone endorses you or befriends you, they are embracing your views - the candidate's views - not the other way around.

that may be what they're saying in public but according to The Note the McCain campaign was emailing around that Newsmax WSJ story this morning

i think that TPM reader is a bit off, but i do think the wright stuff isn't going to go away very easily.

sure, it cancels out the muslim rumor because it draws attention to his church, but it certainly plays well into 1.) the bogus obama-anti-patriot-anti-america narrative. sure, all those things of that narrative on their own are meaningless (the flag lapel pin, etc.), but presented altogether, it's a decent smear that might get a lot of ground; 2.) it also takes one of obama's appeals - the call to move bast bitter race antagonisms - and challenges it (wright as "angry black man", etc).

(obviously i don't buy into any of these bogus narratives, but i think some of this stuff will come back to haunt him)

Charlie Black: I don't think Sen. McCain wants to get in the middle of a discussion about Sen. Obama's former pastor, or his faith. He believes that people who endorse you, people who befriend you, are entitled to their own views, but you are not personally held accountable. That when someone endorses you or befriends you, they are embracing your views - the candidate's views - not the other way around.

-- suzy, Friday, March 14, 2008 6:07 PM

Yeah I think homie doesn't wanna get into the "whose endorser said more offensive shit" contest. Hagee is a fuckwit he hasn't even made an effort to distance himself from.

He has to thow him under the bus and then back up over him again

This is exactly what he must NOT do if he wishes to retain his appeal. The punitive one-upsmanship fed by cynical media and demagogic populism in this country is revolting. We are or should be smart enought to criticize some of Wright's more egregious statements without demonizing him or tossing the baby out with the bathwater and if Obama stoops to the level of Bush or Clinton, it will lessen his appeal.

multi-x-post (is there any other kind?)

There doesn't need to fit into a larger narrative, because competing narratives can always be floated by surrogates outside the campaign. This isn't as effective as having it in the stump speech and repeated endlessly, but a competing "scandal" narrative can be picked up by the press, get legs, and do a fairish amount of harm among the undecided.

Most presidential campaigns will find a way to get every scrap of bad news about their opponent into the media by some avenue. If they can't make it stick, they'll just drop it and go for the next mafia-hit piece to see if it does any better.

the fact that Wright is retiring (this month? next?) should help I think

He retired in February.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright

Why are people so offended by what he said? Maybe some of you could give some insight - it all seems perfectly rational to me. I guess the "gov't created AIDS to kill off the black man" conspiracy theory type stuff can be pretty off-putting, but it's not like he's the first person to ever say this. And it really isn't that farfetched! The whole "gov't planted crack in black neigborhoods and funded drug trafficking" .. um, this is pretty much historical fact, no? "God Damn America", taken out of context, is pretty inflammatory and offensive I suppose, but in the context of his sermon it makes sense - even if you don't agree. American foreign policy in the mid-east and support of Israel's (illegal) occupation leads to terrorist attacks on american soil! Blowback! None of this is radical, it isn't a stretch at all. We were not attacked by "evil men who hate our freedom" (they are evil, yes, but there is more to it than cultural differences). No one is blaming the 9/11 victims for 9/11, that would be absurd...

The whole "gov't planted crack in black neigborhoods and funded drug trafficking" .. um, this is pretty much historical fact, no?

Planting crack in black neighborhoods is a fact?

Yeah I think homie doesn't wanna get into the "whose endorser said more offensive shit" contest.

^^^OTM

I knew this would become an "issue" - obviously Obama has to appeal to everyone and Wright's views aren't exactly mainstream, therefore he's a liability - but I'm still kind of taken aback by how people are reacting to this.

Planting crack in black neighborhoods is a fact?

Yes - see SJ Mercury News investigative journalism pieces in the early- mid-90s with direct evidence of the CIA importing heroin into LA

(er not heroin, CRACK)

(CIA heroin stuff happened in the 70s in the Bay Area - shipping heroin back to the US from 'Nam)

I'll check it out.

I'm trying to find the info for you.

do you have any links? Not because I doubt you – my mom called last night shouting OMIGOD CRAZY BLACK MAN SPEWING CONSPIRACY NONSENSE.

Webb's Dark Alliance article series

and the whole AIDS thing, I mean have you heard of the Tuskegee Experiment? The Gov't purposely infecting black people with Syphillis?

He retired in February.

huh! so much for that theory. I think I must have read the "retiring next month" bit in a story that came out in January when Wright first said the Bill Clinton comments

sad fact: a lot of people have a hard time understanding why black people may not have a wholly positive outlook on the united states!

i agree that this is a serious political problem for Obama, and he has to figure out a way to minimize it. i'd like to give every american a 'history of race in america' class but that isn't going to do it, i'm afraid.

But conservative evangelical leaders can say that 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina were divine retribution for the immorality of New York and New Orleans, respectively?

and the whole AIDS thing, I mean have you heard of the Tuskegee Experiment? The Gov't purposely infecting black people with Syphillis?

The rumor and fantasy are starting to fly fast and furious here. It's a long stretch from the Tuskegee Experiment (which didn't infect anyone with syphilis, it involved not treating syphilis) to the idea that the government created AIDS.

FYI the San Jose Mercury News retracted a lot of Webb's reporting and backed away from the stories under heavy pressure. doesn't mean it was all not true, but just saying. I don't really know the whole backstory behind it.

I'm not passing it off as fact, I'm just saying that it isn't farfetched when you take history into account.