"I Hope You're Happy Now, Jacob"--The LOST Season 5 Thread

gradyvsgrady (11:12:00 PM): u know "miles" on lost?
roxymuzak (11:12:27 PM): sure
gradyvsgrady (11:12:48 PM): daniel dae kim owns this fancy burger restaurant that just opened
gradyvsgrady (11:12:57 PM): some friends were at the opening party
gradyvsgrady (11:13:04 PM): and of course all the lost ppl were there
gradyvsgrady (11:13:13 PM): but my friend christa was with a dude
gradyvsgrady (11:13:18 PM): was drunk and talking to miles
gradyvsgrady (11:13:36 PM): and was like "you were awesome on sopranos... sorry, i dont watch lost"
gradyvsgrady (11:13:45 PM): miles goes "i dont either"
roxymuzak (11:13:51 PM): lol

Pretty sure the "her" that Harper refers to is Annie, Ben's childhood friend

Good idea - but I'm sticking with mom on this one. I think there's been a lot more track laid by the writers in that direction than Annie.

One thing that threw me in this last ep is Ben's upcoming memory loss and the new, repentant Roger. In The Man Behind the Curtain (the purge ep) it's made clear that Ben stlll hates his dad, and dad is still in 1992 a drunk asshole. Whereas the Roger we just saw in 77 ls beginning to see how reprehensible his behavior's been towards Ben, a realization you'd think would be hard to backslide from.

This is interesting because I think now that they've established pretty firmly that there's one timeline, the writers are throwing in curveballs that point to alternates, like the weird Otherless 2007 Jin and the pilot are stuck in (remember the DHARMA numbers broadcast was still playing as the plane crashed), and this Roger-becoming-a-decent-human-being tangent. Now that we've all gotten used to the idea that everything we've seen will be explained by actions in the past, the drama comes from wondering whether something really has changed. Or maybe that's just me watching the show a little too much.

whoops, meant 'Sun and the pilot'

Honestly, i don't quite see how the "alternate future has been created in 2007" theory holds any water. The show has been amazingly in favor of pre-determination and fate, even with the time travel following 12 Monkeys rules rather than Back to the Future or the current Terminator show (which has some cool, underutilized mindblowing concepts of many alternate futures and time travelers causing branches every time). It's quite possible the Others just lived in the temple the whole time since the Kahana exploded, moved back to the Barracks, or they simply felt no need to go back to the second island in three years since there's no longer a sub.

A lot of people think that the voice saying the numbers now is Hurley, which would imply that if/when the crew returns to the present, it will be before 2007.

Hurley was saying the Numbers in the transmission that Rousseau's team heard in 1988. The transmission Frank heard in 2007/8 sounded like someone else.

I didn't get the impression Roger was that repentant, actually - admitting he wasn't the greatest father ever, but kind of blaming it on 'a boy just needs his mother'. Rather than, a boy needs a dad who doesn't duff him up every 5 minutes.

Whereas the Roger we just saw in 77 ls beginning to see how reprehensible his behavior's been towards Ben, a realization you'd think would be hard to backslide from.

Alcoholics are well-known to go through bouts of guilt and self-hatred about their actions, just before they go right ahead and keep doing the same stuff. If Roger is still a drunk when the Purge happens then it's likely this was just a blip in his pattern.

I totally did not realize that Ben's dad is Uncle Rico.

I've been thinking for some time that younger Ben might become obsessed/in love with nursemaid Juliet. It would kind of explain his creepy "YOUR MINE!" behaviour towards her in the last series. Especially if his evil dad shacks up with evil stepmother Kate.

those eps were a total symptom of them not having any end date for the series.

Yeah that too is true but there have been points this season where it's felt like they've just been overloading on too much plot too quickly so maybe a slight change of pace has been refreshing. Seems like they've got all the characters more or less where they want them for the series to calm down a bit now and, like, allow the thing to breathe a bit more.

Hurley was saying the Numbers in the transmission that Rousseau's team heard in 1988

uh has this been confirmed? i guess it would be a cool thing to happen

Not at all confirmed, just fan speculation. But when we heard them again (in 2007, when Ajira 316 crashed on the island) I was listening specifically for it, and it did kind of sound like Hurley to me, but who knows? But in any case, it does mean somebody turned off the Rousseau message and put the numbers back on sometime after 2004.

Season 3 had a lot of terrible filler episodes (uugh Jack's tattoo), but at least I count the Dharma van ep as a classic.

We could really do with an on-island Hurley episode I think... he's so tied in with some of the mystical elements - the Numbers, Jacob's cabin, other visions - but his episodes have centred on scene-setting off-island things for the past couple of seasons so we're a long way from working out why.

Honestly, i don't quite see how the "alternate future has been created in 2007" theory holds any water.

I don't think we've seen enough of it to really judge whether it's 'alternate' either, I just think that at this point it would be cool if it was. Then you'd wonder how the heck this future is different than what it should be and why that alternate got created. I'm kinda hoping that's what Ben was getting at with 'you changed the rules'.

If Roger is still a drunk when the Purge happens then it's likely this was just a blip in his pattern.

Since this is television, and every scene has to be 'significant' to telegraph character development, I don't think it's just a passing phase. Though I can see a scenario in which Evil Child Ben comes back to DHARMA, makes Roger's life hell, and prompts him to get even worse than he was before Ben got shot.

Put me down as one of the people who are really grateful that there's an end date to the series now. I'm rewatching season 3 and you can basically skip every other episode.

what a rubbish (last few) episode(s).

if the others really do have a thing that deletes ben's memory then fuck that.

Yeah, i thought that was pretty weak. I'm holding out hope that it isn't just a 'let's wipe C3PO's memory so he doesn't remember being built by Anakin' thing, that would be really lame.

i don't really like the idea that Ben does end up remembering them all personally (inc. Juliet, as well as that would explain Harper comment) and so after the 815 crash he would've freaked out when being able to put the faces to the names of the relevant people on Ethan's list - would need recovered photos of the people from Dharma days first tho (would childhood memories really be strong enough on their own?). the fate thing with Lost tends to bug me and that would be it overstepping the mark. also thinking back to Juliet's arrival on the island, Ben could've arranged it all (or at least figured out who Juliet was after she "returned") maybe but doesn't fit right with what we saw imo.

but yeah it seems pointless for Sayid to have shot Ben, Ben to survive and then have fast-track conversion to Otherness (only to return to Dharma at some point as we've seen) and it not result in Ben remembering Sayid, Juliet and co.

the memory loss idea could be interesting just because of the smokemonster's ability to display people's memories before them, as it did with Eko. were Ben to have or have had a similar experience at least once, presumably as an adult as i doubt smokey goes for kids, would he see hidden memories as well as those he does remember?

"but yeah it seems pointless for Sayid to have shot Ben, Ben to survive and then have fast-track conversion to Otherness (only to return to Dharma at some point as we've seen) and it not result in Ben remembering Sayid, Juliet and co."

it's a irony of unintended consequences thing. sayid thought he would change history by killing the fuck out of ben, but blammo! actually he made ben ben.

yeah but Ben was on course to join the Others anyway (and probably go down path of becoming a cold mfucka without needing to be shot). so remembering Sayid/being shot needn't be a trigger for that.

I'm interested to see if Jack is going to encounter 1977-model Christian at any point.

gradyvsgrady (11:13:36 PM): and was like "you were awesome on sopranos... sorry, i dont watch lost"
gradyvsgrady (11:13:45 PM): miles goes "i dont either"

Some of the other actors have said similar stuff--in the press even. It must be terrible for these thespians to have to lower themselves to perform such material in order to pay the bills.

One of the great things about Lost is that the actors seem to have almost no power. Also the fandom seems more focused on the show runners and writers than the actors--as evidenced when Matthew Fox showed up at ComiCon with Damon and Carlton and no one asked him any questions--though one guy said that the "actor guy" could chime in too if he wanted to.

what if ghost christian is actually jack after he's been stuck on the island 30 years

that is an idea one could have

But who is his father???????

charlie?

pennie's boat is his father

the horse is his father

charlie horse

^^^^^^^^^^

some mindblowing shit here yall

"horse" = heroin = charlie

= jack's father obv

horse or.......horace???

tho also horse = heroin = "heroine" = kate? so maybe kate is jack's father

YES

If Charlie's father is the horse, where did the polar bears come from?

uh...the north pole?! DOI

polar bears normally come from ice laden areas.

x-post lol

Did you mean: "where did the polar bears come from"

No results found for "where did them polar bears come from".

hahhahaha

the polar bear and the horse are brothers. their mother is annie.

how's annie?

She's doing well, thanks.

write it in u dairy

dudes, the writers are totally going to steal those theories from this thread

oh har har har

It must be terrible for these thespians to have to lower themselves to perform such material in order to pay the bills.

I don't think that's the attitude any of the actors have! That's kind of a weird leap. Are they all supposed to be nerd fanboys themselves? Of the big cast members, I think only Hurley is a total geek for all the plot twists.

Yeah, they're just not as nerdy as the audience of the show - nothing inherently wrong with that. I'd bet that's the case more often than it isn't when it comes to sci-fi/fantasy actors. Actors saying they don't watch their own show (at all, let alone religiously) is pretty common across the aboard, though you do hear about them catching it on Tivo or DVD occasionally.

One of the great things about Lost is that the actors seem to have almost no power. Also the fandom seems more focused on the show runners and writers than the actors...

Definitely agreed on this one, though this has probably become true of virtually every heavy continuity/plot-driven TV show of the last few years, building up cults around the showrunner/creator as much as the actors (i.e. BSG, The Wire, Deadwood, everything Joss Whedon, even How I Met Your Mother). It's a major shift in general for TV, not considering procedurals.

yeah i don't blame the actors for not watching the show or not following it properly - i imagine the way they shoot (with all the timelines and flashbacks, re-shooting scenes from different POVs etc) means they can't really read the scripts the way we see them on-screen and it's also pretty normal for actors to not watch themselves beyond the dailies.

i prob know way too much about this but matthew fox is surprisingly the biggest geek of them all, followed by jeremy davies who apparently loves quantum physics almost as much as his character does. naveen andrews doesn't watch the show at all and evangeline lilly hates the sci-fi/time-travel stuff. so ya know.. different levels of nerdery among the actors, as there prob are among lost fans in general.