"I Hope You're Happy Now, Jacob"--The LOST Season 5 Thread

next week:

"John!...how long have you been sitting there waiting for me to wake up?"

"THREE STINKIN DAYS"

like the idea that ben is such a cold MF that he would allow a little kid to be shot just to further his machinations (even if that little kid happens to have been himself at some point)

if only sayid had seen miller's crossing w/ its ALWAYS PUT ONE IN THE BRAINNNNN

OK for once i watched the 'next week' clip on youtube and now v excited

Ha, all three Lost blogs I read this week have said "OMG, they mentioned Back To The Future, that must mean the writers read this blog!".

dumb episode

Basically what they need to do is put Aaron through the time vortex and have him turn up aged 20 and totally hardcore and ready for whatever Satanic destiny he's been preparing for since conception.

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2008/04/JLIPNIcK.jpg

this ep felt a bit like one of those awful episodes in season 2 or 3 where hurley and charlie have a wacky fucking adventure playing golf or some shit.

Fuck you those episodes were great.

Actually it feels like what would usually happen was that they'd play golf for ages and then whack the ball straight into some mysterious Dharma station they'd never noticed before.

i was gonna say. golf ep was gr8.

someone remind me - what was the deal with that lady who appeared out of nowhere once and told Juliet that she looked like Ben's... therapist was it? (I think this was when they were on the way to the 'gas everyone on the island' station)

I think you might be thinking of the wife of the dude Juliet was taking "day trips" with.

Harper was Juliet's therapist. Juliet was meanwhile sleeping with Harper's husband, Goodwin (who is later killed by Ana-Lucia). In the scene where Harper confronts Juliet about the fact that she's been having an affair with Goodwin, Harper also tells Juliet that Ben has been nice to her because "you look just like her." It's never revealed who "her" is.

i totally had all that messed up in my head. like you said. i was thinking of "Harper" who was the otherville therapist married to goodwin who was having the affair with juliet, which possibly led to Ben sending goodwin to check out the tailies. or something.

xpost

Harper also tells Juliet that Ben has been nice to her because "you look just like her." It's never revealed who "her" is.
AH thats what i was thinking of though - thanks

So that means that Harper must have seen Juliet back in the Dharma days too--or just a photo I guess.

Juliet will guide teenage Ben through pon farr or some such ha!

Ben's Dad: most annoying face since Pickett's

Dude that's Lazlo you're talking about

http://unknowndocument.com/blog/42/lazlo.jpg

Harper also tells Juliet that Ben has been nice to her because "you look just like her." It's never revealed who "her" is.

That would be Ben's mother. Her death prompts his flight to the Others, as well as the fertility obsession that Richard Alpert considers a distraction.

- crossing fingers that Ben doesn't die until season 6

That would be Ben's mother. Her death prompts his flight to the Others, as well as the fertility obsession that Richard Alpert considers a distraction.

She died in childbirth though.

lazlo also was the werewolf in monster squad and the uncle in napoleon dynamite. don't talk shit about that dude.

xpost

Yep, but i think a shrink would be well aware that Ben was obsessed with his mom's death as well as his dad making him feel responsible for it.

Mitch: Did you know there's a guy living in our closet?
Chris Knight: You've seen him too?
Mitch: Who is he?
Chris Knight: Hollyfeld.
Mitch: Why does he keep going into our closet?
Chris Knight: Why do you keep going into our closet?
Mitch: To get my clothes - but that's not why he goes in there.
Chris Knight: Of course not, he's twice your size - your clothes would never fit him.
Mitch: Yeah...
Chris Knight: Think before you ask these questions, Mitch. Twenty points higher than me? Thinks a big guy like that can wear his clothes?

"She died in childbirth though."

He could have seen a picture of her.

could the loss of innocence mumbo jumbo possibly be construed to mean that ben becomes immortal or slow to age or whatever the fuck alpert is

also i loled at:

this ep felt a bit like one of those awful episodes in season 2 or 3 where hurley and charlie have a wacky fucking adventure playing golf or some shit.

― Local Garda, Thursday, April 2, 2009 7:42 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Ben's Dad: most annoying face since Pickett's

Hey, Pickett was awesome. No other Val dude could touch him!

http://wp.retrodc.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/valley.jpg

That would be Ben's mother. Her death prompts his flight to the Others, as well as the fertility obsession that Richard Alpert considers a distraction.

They left this vague in SSN 4 because they didn't know how far they'd be allowed to go with the time travel stuff, but now that they're all in it's pretty obvious that Juliet reminds Ben of Juliet.

Pretty sure the "her" that Harper refers to is Annie, Ben's childhood friend (the who gave him the doll) but we haven't seen her much, even in that one origin episode of Ben's that she was in. I always figured they would get back to her eventually, but since Carlton/Lindelof mentioned her pretty recently in an interview (as one of the most important women in Ben's life - the other being daughter Alex) I'd lay good odds we'll get some of her story next week. (Who wants to bet she dies giving birth?)

Fuck you those episodes were great.

no they weren't, those eps were a total symptom of them not having any end date for the series.

gradyvsgrady (11:12:00 PM): u know "miles" on lost?
roxymuzak (11:12:27 PM): sure
gradyvsgrady (11:12:48 PM): daniel dae kim owns this fancy burger restaurant that just opened
gradyvsgrady (11:12:57 PM): some friends were at the opening party
gradyvsgrady (11:13:04 PM): and of course all the lost ppl were there
gradyvsgrady (11:13:13 PM): but my friend christa was with a dude
gradyvsgrady (11:13:18 PM): was drunk and talking to miles
gradyvsgrady (11:13:36 PM): and was like "you were awesome on sopranos... sorry, i dont watch lost"
gradyvsgrady (11:13:45 PM): miles goes "i dont either"
roxymuzak (11:13:51 PM): lol

Pretty sure the "her" that Harper refers to is Annie, Ben's childhood friend

Good idea - but I'm sticking with mom on this one. I think there's been a lot more track laid by the writers in that direction than Annie.

One thing that threw me in this last ep is Ben's upcoming memory loss and the new, repentant Roger. In The Man Behind the Curtain (the purge ep) it's made clear that Ben stlll hates his dad, and dad is still in 1992 a drunk asshole. Whereas the Roger we just saw in 77 ls beginning to see how reprehensible his behavior's been towards Ben, a realization you'd think would be hard to backslide from.

This is interesting because I think now that they've established pretty firmly that there's one timeline, the writers are throwing in curveballs that point to alternates, like the weird Otherless 2007 Jin and the pilot are stuck in (remember the DHARMA numbers broadcast was still playing as the plane crashed), and this Roger-becoming-a-decent-human-being tangent. Now that we've all gotten used to the idea that everything we've seen will be explained by actions in the past, the drama comes from wondering whether something really has changed. Or maybe that's just me watching the show a little too much.

whoops, meant 'Sun and the pilot'

Honestly, i don't quite see how the "alternate future has been created in 2007" theory holds any water. The show has been amazingly in favor of pre-determination and fate, even with the time travel following 12 Monkeys rules rather than Back to the Future or the current Terminator show (which has some cool, underutilized mindblowing concepts of many alternate futures and time travelers causing branches every time). It's quite possible the Others just lived in the temple the whole time since the Kahana exploded, moved back to the Barracks, or they simply felt no need to go back to the second island in three years since there's no longer a sub.

A lot of people think that the voice saying the numbers now is Hurley, which would imply that if/when the crew returns to the present, it will be before 2007.

Hurley was saying the Numbers in the transmission that Rousseau's team heard in 1988. The transmission Frank heard in 2007/8 sounded like someone else.

I didn't get the impression Roger was that repentant, actually - admitting he wasn't the greatest father ever, but kind of blaming it on 'a boy just needs his mother'. Rather than, a boy needs a dad who doesn't duff him up every 5 minutes.

Whereas the Roger we just saw in 77 ls beginning to see how reprehensible his behavior's been towards Ben, a realization you'd think would be hard to backslide from.

Alcoholics are well-known to go through bouts of guilt and self-hatred about their actions, just before they go right ahead and keep doing the same stuff. If Roger is still a drunk when the Purge happens then it's likely this was just a blip in his pattern.

I totally did not realize that Ben's dad is Uncle Rico.

I've been thinking for some time that younger Ben might become obsessed/in love with nursemaid Juliet. It would kind of explain his creepy "YOUR MINE!" behaviour towards her in the last series. Especially if his evil dad shacks up with evil stepmother Kate.

those eps were a total symptom of them not having any end date for the series.

Yeah that too is true but there have been points this season where it's felt like they've just been overloading on too much plot too quickly so maybe a slight change of pace has been refreshing. Seems like they've got all the characters more or less where they want them for the series to calm down a bit now and, like, allow the thing to breathe a bit more.

Hurley was saying the Numbers in the transmission that Rousseau's team heard in 1988

uh has this been confirmed? i guess it would be a cool thing to happen

Not at all confirmed, just fan speculation. But when we heard them again (in 2007, when Ajira 316 crashed on the island) I was listening specifically for it, and it did kind of sound like Hurley to me, but who knows? But in any case, it does mean somebody turned off the Rousseau message and put the numbers back on sometime after 2004.

Season 3 had a lot of terrible filler episodes (uugh Jack's tattoo), but at least I count the Dharma van ep as a classic.

We could really do with an on-island Hurley episode I think... he's so tied in with some of the mystical elements - the Numbers, Jacob's cabin, other visions - but his episodes have centred on scene-setting off-island things for the past couple of seasons so we're a long way from working out why.

Honestly, i don't quite see how the "alternate future has been created in 2007" theory holds any water.

I don't think we've seen enough of it to really judge whether it's 'alternate' either, I just think that at this point it would be cool if it was. Then you'd wonder how the heck this future is different than what it should be and why that alternate got created. I'm kinda hoping that's what Ben was getting at with 'you changed the rules'.

If Roger is still a drunk when the Purge happens then it's likely this was just a blip in his pattern.

Since this is television, and every scene has to be 'significant' to telegraph character development, I don't think it's just a passing phase. Though I can see a scenario in which Evil Child Ben comes back to DHARMA, makes Roger's life hell, and prompts him to get even worse than he was before Ben got shot.

Put me down as one of the people who are really grateful that there's an end date to the series now. I'm rewatching season 3 and you can basically skip every other episode.

what a rubbish (last few) episode(s).

if the others really do have a thing that deletes ben's memory then fuck that.

Yeah, i thought that was pretty weak. I'm holding out hope that it isn't just a 'let's wipe C3PO's memory so he doesn't remember being built by Anakin' thing, that would be really lame.

i don't really like the idea that Ben does end up remembering them all personally (inc. Juliet, as well as that would explain Harper comment) and so after the 815 crash he would've freaked out when being able to put the faces to the names of the relevant people on Ethan's list - would need recovered photos of the people from Dharma days first tho (would childhood memories really be strong enough on their own?). the fate thing with Lost tends to bug me and that would be it overstepping the mark. also thinking back to Juliet's arrival on the island, Ben could've arranged it all (or at least figured out who Juliet was after she "returned") maybe but doesn't fit right with what we saw imo.

but yeah it seems pointless for Sayid to have shot Ben, Ben to survive and then have fast-track conversion to Otherness (only to return to Dharma at some point as we've seen) and it not result in Ben remembering Sayid, Juliet and co.

the memory loss idea could be interesting just because of the smokemonster's ability to display people's memories before them, as it did with Eko. were Ben to have or have had a similar experience at least once, presumably as an adult as i doubt smokey goes for kids, would he see hidden memories as well as those he does remember?

"but yeah it seems pointless for Sayid to have shot Ben, Ben to survive and then have fast-track conversion to Otherness (only to return to Dharma at some point as we've seen) and it not result in Ben remembering Sayid, Juliet and co."

it's a irony of unintended consequences thing. sayid thought he would change history by killing the fuck out of ben, but blammo! actually he made ben ben.

yeah but Ben was on course to join the Others anyway (and probably go down path of becoming a cold mfucka without needing to be shot). so remembering Sayid/being shot needn't be a trigger for that.

I'm interested to see if Jack is going to encounter 1977-model Christian at any point.