aging / acting like an adult: the gravest offense in 21st-century American culture

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A bunch of men discussing a woman discussing ageing: Oh joy!

― Jacques Lacan let me rock u; let me rock u, Jacques Lacan (Branwell with an N), Wednesday, October 22, 2014 3:43 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

What a coincidence, I was thinking the exact same thing. But I kinda like the irony when anything related to privilege ends up as a conversation among like 5 white dudes and it's not worth anyone's time to get in between them.

baseball is 'adult' because it is boring

― sleepingbag, Wednesday, October 22, 2014 3:50 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

True tho.

unless watched in an air conditioned stadium selling cocktaiils

PRIVILEGE: find another word (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)

in orbit & Alfred, i won't even try.

Looking old, she said, should be a boast about experiences accrued and insights acquired, a triumphant signal “that you are someone who, beneath that white hair, has a card catalog of valuable information.”

is this really true? i mean, i still ask my dad about all kinds of practical things, but im not sure id consider him a fount of wisdom.

i know where that 'don't grow up. it's a trap' sign is!! it's a v good liquor store.

k thanks

shouldn't it be "an iPhone of valuable info"?

i must have missed the post itt where we tacked up the 'no girls allowed' sign, what exactly is making the women feel so alienated by the conversation? y'all just 'can't even' with the opinions of dudes anymore?

McDormand's quote in my first post isn't even gender-specific; what a horrible feminist

yeah this is one time where I am kind of shrugging at those comments? I mean we basically only used the quote as a jumping off point and nothing else in the thread really seems relevant to privilege or gendered aspects of aging to me? Maybe I just can't see it through my privilege blinders.

a triumphant signal “that you are someone who, beneath that white hair, has a card catalog of valuable information.”

http://cdn.frontpagemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Jon-Voight.jpg

the older i get the less faith i have in the "wisdom" of those older than i

a triumphant signal “that you are someone who, beneath that white hair, has a card catalog of valuable information.”

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Screen-Shot-2012-08-27-at-5.21.48-PM.png

Maybe the dressing like a teenager thing is more applicable to women's style/fashion, or maybe I've always been pretty square, but it's hard to envision "dressing your age" as a man outside of the Mad Men-y graduate from jeans to khakis to a suit and I don't wanna wear khakis.

I see a lot of men's style that I think looks kind of kiddulty.

I mean, I see guys my own age wearing football jerseys as everyday wear and ugly hats and stuff, but that's not really screaming teenager to me.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Hiking_in_Knee_Socks,_Sandals,_and_Cut-offs.jpg

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/v0mDnaESnrM/maxresdefault.jpg

ok, i see you guys are gonna be euthanizing us when the debt bomb comes; as you were

wow pHIL you found some pics of celebrity Republicans, CHRIST U GENIUS

http://images.telerama.fr/medias/2011/07/media_71134/michel-serres-n-etant-porteuse-d-aucun-sens-la-musique-les-possede-tous,M56369.jpg

^^^noted philosopher michel serres

Here is a picture of Jean-Luc Godard wearing a t-shirt under a suit jacket like he's on Miami Fucking Vice or something. Grow up!

http://www.filmlinc.com/page/-/130814_GodardMain.jpg

Look at these hipsters! Maybe one day they'll buy their shirts at a store for AD-ults.

http://images.starpulse.com/news/media/coenbros.jpg

A denim jacket at a black-tie affair? Study hall is THAT WAY, missy!

http://cdn2.crushable.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/francesmcdormandtonsjacket.jpg

LOL 420 SMOKE WEED ERRYDAY

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--vNIXRR-o--/18es0ep9r3u8hjpg.jpg

omg the scales have fallen from my eyes

can Phil and I be joined as Official Board Enemies?

Well, generally I think people should dress the way they want to and have the interests and pastimes they want to, and where do our ideas about those things come from anyway?
But (having not read the full article) I am not going to say there is nothing to what she is saying. I think to me the more important aspect of it is the rejection or marginalization of actual older people and viewpoints and the emphasis on either actually being very young or seeming young whatever one's age. There is nothing wrong with an older person going to comic con or dressing supposedly younger but both being and seeming old (in whatever way that's defined) should be okay too.
Our culture has grown increasingly youth oriented and I do see a problem with that. I just don't think it's about how people dress or reading comic books or things like that. Those, to me, are not signs of maturity or wisdom. If anything isn't she judging by external appearances here?

But some people put on their "fun uniform" to do these age-anachronistic things...

I understand what a "Phil D level poster" is now

To follow up just one little thought from the essay, I guess it's possible we (and "we" as used here is a total moving target) don't invest older ppl with our cultural memory (as much?) anymore? To the extent that "we" ever really did, and this isn't just historical revisionism. But maybe it's fair to say we don't look to our elders to learn how to be. BUT also when older people believe that the world in the time of their youth was better than now, when their values are just references to the past, that outlook doesn't have a lot to offer younger generations? We shouldn't be surprised when young people pull away from that.

But I'm also feeling a tie-in to equality issues here--when one is part of a marginalized population that's fighting for greater equality it's easier to see how the past was worse for you if your concern group has made progress in your lifetime. And your priorities are future goals, which rest in the hands of the youth, so you're vitally invested in the future.

W/r/t young ppl: when you see yourself as being engaged in a struggle that's assigned to you by your identity, you're more likely to value the markers of that identity, things that tell you what it means to be a member of the group you identify with. And the "keepers" of those values are...the elders? Because they've seen more and can see furthest into the past to bring stories forward? There are prob good sociological explanations for elder reverence that I don't know to cite.

----

I have totally not even started to process the whole women's appearances and aging part of what McDormand was saying, no one should really be arguing about that given the wealth of discussion on the subject.

Isn't the fact that people over 30 or 40 read comic books 1) a fact of the comics industry evolving & maturing PR, esp. thanks to Internet 2) a sign of anti-agism in the culture?

As an over-40, I hope so! Older folk should be encouraged to do youthful things. They shouldn't be expected to wear bright blue eyeshadow or wear tiny shorts that show your ass.

People are living so long now it seems silly to expect them to start picking out wheelchairs for when they turn 70. I don't think that helps longevity!

I think there is an infantilism in the culture that some favor, but it is insulting to those in their twenties and thirties. For example there is too much music for fifteen-year-olds out there. I would think people that age who act more adult would get further in life.

Also - I'm pushing 50 and the older I get the more I feel that deterioration is evil. Fuck aging - it's evil and unfair. I blame no one for getting plastic surgery.

To follow up just one little thought from the essay, I guess it's possible we (and "we" as used here is a total moving target) don't invest older ppl with our cultural memory (as much?) anymore? To the extent that "we" ever really did, and this isn't just historical revisionism. But maybe it's fair to say we don't look to our elders to learn how to be. BUT also when older people believe that the world in the time of their youth was better than now, when their values are just references to the past, that outlook doesn't have a lot to offer younger generations?

Yes, which is why I posted the pictures of Voight and Jackson after Morbius -- presumably positively? -- quoted McDormand's Looking old, she said, should be a boast about experiences accrued and insights acquired, a triumphant signal “that you are someone who, beneath that white hair, has a card catalog of valuable information.”

Not only doesn't Morbius believe that as a general proposition ("Ask me about Hillary Clinton!") he'd be ceaseless in his mockery of anyone else who deployed it in an argument as a general proposition, especially if it was someone whose interests he disapproved of or who appeared to be having a better time in life than he does.

I don't know who any of those ppl are and I'm not in an argument with Morbius. I'm just trying to respond to the OP.

http://www.dummymag.com/media/img/cache/media/uploads/news/Warp_Tate_Rave_Rustie_Rollo_Jackson_750_418_90_s.jpg

xp fair enough. I think there's less to the OP than meets the eye.

Thought someone was going to post that funny image of Herzog at Comicon. I think he actually said he liked it.

Isn't the fact that people over 30 or 40 read comic books 1) a fact of the comics industry evolving & maturing

this p much a separate issue but no that is absolutely not the case. the superhero comics industry's audience has basically calcified and been restricted to the same group of people who read comics in the 80s, and it has failed to expand beyond that to include new, younger generations of readers, often intentionally so (recalling Paul Pope being told that he could not actually write a Batman comic for children, it had to be geared towards 40yo men etc.) I'm speaking primarily here about the big two, obviously comics has a much broader market than that when it comes to non-superhero stuff which is (not coincidentally) also mostly specifically targeted at adults. Comics are largely not for kids anymore because a certain segment of the comics-buying audience is - and Morbz is correct here - composed primarily of arrested development types who want to consume their childhood pop iconography but with the window dressing of adult content (ie graphic sex and violence). These are vast generalizations, obviously, but on the whole this is how it looks to me.

I dunno - how " old" are these old people? I personally would care not to remember the Kennedy assassination and Vietnam. Not to mention some truly awful conduct in reaction to integration and the Civil Rights Movement.

Who are these old people who think things were better then?

Believing life is disappointing or a disaster can spring from a shitty childhood spent thinking things will get better as much as having dreams dashed. Either way it's a pose. I need to ask my parents' dog if life is a disappointment.

What exactly did your parents do to that dog?

I wasn't trying to consign everyone over 45 to days filled with shuffleboard and the Olive Garden, but just urging them to avoid this

http://www.technologytell.com/entertainment/files/2014/05/tumblr_mg1aevZBv71qefwfno1_500.jpg

Limp wrists?

Wth, shuffleboard is GREAT.

it's true all late night talk shows should be avoided

Phil D, your generalizations are bullshit ("he's saying ALL mature ppl are fonts of wisdom") and i don't care to engage

You never actually ~make~ an argument in any thread so I wouldn't expect this to be any different. Just a bunch of insinuating quotes and one-liners that you can back away from when needed.

I don't like reboots, but a good reboot of Freaky Friday would be Jodie Foster switches places with Lindsay Lohan and nobody notices any difference.

"Phil D" swaps with "Dr Morbius", ruins a screening of "The Bicycle Thief"

I don't agree with the policing and pressure to conform in either direction - pressure to seem as young as possible through surgery, clothes, taking up youth associated interests etc- or saying "You're old now, time to stop dressing like that /liking those things".
I understand the concern with what appears to be a lack of growth and development over the course of a lifetime but I don't think that's necessarily reflected in those things.
I also we need to careful in moving from observation of a social problem -ageism, undervaluing older people and perspectives - to criticism of individuals for what they seem to be embodying.

Frances more or less says that she is speaking out of fear and rage. Which might account for some of the more obvious limitations of her broad social critique.

bummed that this thread wasn't bumped because the Star Wars thread has almost 1000 new answers

pointing out that shakespeare has for hundreds of years been an essential part of mass/pop/whatever culture in the english speaking world to make a something something something point about sneering intellectuals is on some _trenchant social commentary_ shit

life is too short to read the stuff that noah berlatsky writes