TRUE DETECTIVE on hbo - matthew mcconaughey, woody harrelson, michelle monaghan, fukunaga, pizzolatto

sort of a masculine/feminine dynamic going on obvs p intersting

The BBC series The Fall is also a really interesting counterpoint to these now that I think about it

idk thought the fall was kinda basic

TD did have the wisdom (or folly depending on your pov) of making the holly hunter character the main character.

Definitely not as visually interesting or layered a story as TD or TOTL - but I think The Fall is doing something more interesting with their villain and what he means. But yeah, got way more drawn in by TD and TOTL on the whole.

I don't think it's fair to Top of the Lake to talk about the dangers of fake allegations, since the show does delve into that issue with Tui's father, whom everyone immediately assumes abused his own daughter.

why can't we get a talisman miniseries is what I wanna know

I got the impression the father was essentially pimping her out, which is almost as bad. When she comes back from the police he asks her if she told them anything. But ultimately what I'm saying is the "everyone's in on it, even the cops and politicians" just feels a bit over-used, and there was a recent period when that narrative played out in the real world with terrible effects

I think TD rather elegantly addresses that as well. (see all my posts above about the ending)

not sure the father was implicated tbh, nor that the ring overlapped with his enterprises except that the town was small

it wasn't very clear tbh

xposts
will have to finish watching before I read that, and like I said I shouldn't really be offering up opinions without having finished it - but for shows so savvy and interesting about culture and social dynamics - and so interested in doing interesting things with plot and story-telling - that plot device seemed like a weak link

Ok, I think it's a bit weird complaint to make. First of all, these cases happened 20-30 years ago. Secondly, the cases aren't at all like the shows, where it's quite explicitly the powerful who are preying on the weak. A much more likely comparison would be something like the catholic sex-scandals. And thirdly, if this is a problem, well, then I'd say you should never ever have a black or immigrant criminal on a tv-show. Because fears and anxietes of black and immigrant crime has way more real world impact than fear of sexual abuse conspiracies.

TD takes place 20 years ago - and I'm saying I like the shows - just feels like it was obvious, especially since you could see it coming a mile away in both shows which were otherwise surprising in lots of ways

and on top of that - something really interesting and dark and scary DID happen wihen people believed the sex crime conspiracy narrative (something very explicitly about the powerful preying on the weak too - look at the West Memphis 3 or Jordan Minnesota) in the real world... so using that narrative as a bogeyman of dark and scary feels off to me

The conspiracy story is def a very common story, and you could easily claim it's clichéd. You'd probably be right. That's not what I'm commenting on.

The West Memphis Three were ostracized teenagers. They were the opposite of what happens in TD. And there's also a pretty big difference between a regular daycare, and a religous school basically run by a senator and his family. It's not the same.

It's not that I doubt that false allegations are pretty common and incredibly dangerous - look at the allegations of Roma-families kidnapping children earlier this year, or the guy being killed by his neighbours after he photographed children to prove they were destroying his garden - but the dynamic is very, very different than it is in these shows. It's witchhunts, and witchhunts mainly happen to the weirdoes, and the people on the outskirts of society. Not state senators or police chiefs. Or priests.

i've thought a lot more deeply about TD than TOTL, so i can't speak to how the latter handles this, but TD starts from a strongly pessimistic or gnostic metaphysical position that sees the world itself as a conspiracy of evil, depravity, illusion, etc. The show is in some sense an investigation into this mindset! what drives it, its potential validity, its emotional resonance...that Rust maps this mindset onto a *particular* conspiracy is something of a red-herring, since in "reality" it has neither beginning nor ending. the "ethics" of the show, as i tried to argue above (to much dissent), is about when to draw the line between that metaphysical standpoint and actually living your life. it's the difference between infinite ethical obligations (the flipside to Rust's supposed nihilism is that he feels a strong duty to justice) and finite ones.

in real life, the "powerful preying on the weak" took the form of cops and politicians railroading people like the WM3 and daycare workers for expediency and political gain

in the fictions, the "powerful preying on the weak" takes the form of cops and politicians directly taking part in the murder and exploitation of children

TD portrays the powerful as actual members of an occult sex abuse ring which feels unsettling to me - because in real life, the weak were victimized for being perceived as members of occult sex rings

it just feels like it creates a dissonance that gets in the way of the larger goals of the narrative

I'm not saying it's irresponsible or dangerous, just an artistic choice that comes with a lot of baggage that the shows don't completely escape

no it doesn't/yes it does/you're projecting a lot. IMO.

enjoy the rest of the show! the plots not all that important tbrr

Ha, yeah sorry just banging on about a half baked theory that clearly does not resonate with any one else... And there's definitely tons more going on in both these shows - and I do really think both are great tv

serious question: what murder mystery solution *wouldn't* be cliche at this point?

seems like yr standard options are: 1) loony serial killer, 2) "this conspiracy goes ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP", 3) family member you least suspect, 4) something totally mundane (drug-related, organized crime etc.)

5) horrifying extradimensional being of unimaginable power

I guess

i guess one in which the conspiracy turned out to be totally fabricated? maybe that's been done too.

6) One of the good guys

one of the things I love about Twin Peaks is that it uses all of those simultaneously

7. eh just trails off

The show was definitely trying to make you think it was Rust for a while. I don't know if that would actually have been novel or not, but something about it would definitely feel cheap.

I don't think it was. it was trying to make you think the detectives thought it was. but prob they didn't rly.

that was one of the cooler parts of the show for me, in that 2/3 was ostensibly about whether Rust was the murderer--to the extent that the camera POV was quite often that of the interrogating detectives--which is a neat device for allowing a character to expound upon a (possibly self-incriminating) worldview at length. but there's some kind of shift in POV that i can't put my finger on which occurs after rust breaks off the interrogation.

the funny part was that their theories about rust were at least as speculative as rust's "sprawl" theories were!

and i think that's the kind of balance that makes Marty so important--he's like the self-interested doubting thomas of it all.

ppl still trying on the "what WOULDNT be bad" ending?? aim higher yo

in real life, the "powerful preying on the weak" took the form of cops and politicians railroading people like the WM3 and daycare workers for expediency and political gain the Catholic Church

This show was very, very good. Although reading this thread has made me stop wanting to read commentary re: shows as they are happening.

otm

yeah enjoyed this and pretty much hated everything i read about it

i'm coming around to that POV

yeah I've found myself getting much more OH FFS now with other shows.
like GOT recaps up like 5 minutes after the episode airs and it's like FUCKING SHUT UP WHO CARES

my favorite aspect of recap culture is tv critics whining about netflix's model, the idea that maybe there are other ways to write tv criticism than 'recap plot w/ asides about what worked and didn't work and maybe some bullet points of really awesome moments/lines at the end', and the general being completely out of touch w/ marathoning being how ALOT of tv is watched nowadays.

guys i'm watching this show now! don't tell me anything.

yes. Just watch it if you want, if you like it keep watching it until you don't want to.

However, I still am all too happy to read commentary on Top Chef. That never gets old.

However, I still am all too happy to read commentary on Top Chef. That never gets old.

omg how could this not suck?? I trust you've found the one forum that's not all armchair-foodie O4U

I was totally off in my upthread analysis of this show, based on assumptions about what I thought was going to happen so yeah premature overthinking is probably best kept to oneself

my favorite aspect of recap culture is tv critics whining about netflix's model, the idea that maybe there are other ways to write tv criticism than 'recap plot w/ asides about what worked and didn't work and maybe some bullet points of really awesome moments/lines at the end', and the general being completely out of touch w/ marathoning being how ALOT of tv is watched nowadays.

― balls, Thursday, July 3, 2014 2:29 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

totes

Beginning Season One in five minutes!

whaaaat

don't have HBO see

don't check back in on this thread til you've finished and maybe not even then.

yeah unlike some other shows i think the internet speculation and the ability to get some kind of confirmation for any red herring you feel like following really didn't do anything to enhance the show.

Just finished S1 last nice. Really great and eerie and all but for some reason in found the falling-apart family stuff to be the most unsettling.

Notes:

1. What a novelty to watch McConougheyhey play a role requiring intelligence and pungency, and he savors every word.

2. The episode in which Cohle and Hart visit their respective whores = yawn. Heterosexual fantasies on film/sex demand wives and whores,
filmed and written in the most pedantic ways.

3. The intensity of a couple of scenes -- the interrogation in the third episode -- reminded me of Todd Haynes, particularly Safe: a clammy hermetic intensity.