HBO adaptation of Game of Thrones - will this be just for nerds? (NO SPOILERS PLEASE)

xxp I read the monotone awkwardness of Shae's testimony as her reciting a story someone else fed to her. But then again, that actress has given a lot of awkward monotone line reads.

Why does Varys testify against Tyrion? What's his motivation there? All the other witnesses had some kind of grudge, but I can't recall that Varys does.

My guess for what's next is that Tyrion will again choose Jaime as his champion in combat because there's no way Tywin would let Jaime get killed.

Whatever happened to Gendry? Is he just row-boating in circles?

"I read the monotone awkwardness of Shae's testimony as her reciting a story someone else fed to her."

Yeah but she also threw in a lot of personal digs

I get if Varys is just trying to get points, but he didn't have to mention that he thought maybe Tyrion was sympathetic to the northern cause...

oh boy now we get TWO trials

until I learn what her motivation was.

If someone was making her say it, you'd expect her to show some pain delivering the testimony. If her primary motivation was that she is pissed at Tyrion anyway to the point that maybe she volunteered to be a witness (maybe! she was devastated so she hates him now possibly) than it's more understandable that the delivery was totally cold and detached.

So that's why I'm saving the criticism until I learn which or if it's a combination of both etc

what? why would she show pain? who would possibly care? the people who are forcing her and who are controlling whether she lives or dies, given the whole thing is blatantly rigged?

she threw in some between her and Tyrion personal digs, too. She was extremely dedicated to him despite the danger of it that she acknowledged, so you would think there'd be some difficulty just completely fucking him over that you would of heard in her voice.

why would there be difficulty when the choice between supporting someone who's been set up to lose and refusing means her death? It's not like anyone there doubted how much Tyrion's own family wanted him dead, so where would be the benefit in testifying for him? she's been positioned as someone interested in her own survival since the beginning.

I'm only saying she'd show some remorse underneath what she is forced to say. That's what I mean by difficult. I'm not saying she would say anything different (except maybe she wouldn't have humiliated him during it as much)

I wasn't advocating she would support him instead or something. So I'll judge the acting once I learn how the Shae character actually feels about Tyrion.

I think you missed the scene in a previous episode where he called her a useless whore in an attempt to drive her from Kings' Landing and she lost her shit.

I remember that, she'd be heart-broken and betrayed but maybe still conflicted? Their dedication to each other wouldn't necessarily be totally wiped away. Her delivery was so cold in the testimony but you'd expect a little remorse to show through, no?

Did you miss all of the rage episodes leading up to that where she'd demand that he acknowledge her and he'd deflect because it would be too dangerous for her and she took it as him not valuing her as woman?

True! So yeah maybe she's completely over him. But right before he broke up with her, in that same scene, she was pretty crazy about him still. That's all.

If there's one thing I think the show has done well, it's the planting of the seeds of discord in the Tyrion/Shae relationship; I don't see how, given the brutality of the rejection he landed on her combined with all of the perceived and real slights on their relationship and her status that have been going on, anyone would expect someone as steely and unbending as Shae to dissolve into a sentimental weepy mess when faced with the opportunity to give back the pain and rejection she's been taking pretty much since they set foot in King's Landing.

re shae's acting ability - i found it impossible to read any subtlety or nuance into her testimony in this last ep. was she angry that tyrion harry and the hendersoned her? was she being threatened? bribed for her testimony? who knows! everything she says she delivers w/ the same monotone.

― Mordy, Monday, May 12, 2014 10:27 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Again, this^ I was looking for nuance to clue me in as well. Despite how obvious it may be to anyone else in here?

sentimental weepy mess would have been overkill. I was looking for some dimension.

The nuance could have been anger, that's fine too.

You say nuance, but complain that she's under-acting?

No I'm saying I don't know if she's underacting until I learn how the character feels for real.

I was hoping some nuance would have clued me in. But I'm not entirely sure, maybe Tyrion is truly dead to her.

DJP otm

And Evan, seriously, at some point you have to acknowledge the difference between what you WANT for a character vs how the character, *as written*, would behave given the circumstances

my only complaint is really about the quality of Sibel Kekilli's acting + particularly her line-readings. i can obviously understand the character's motivations just from the context of the script to date. just bc her motivations are transparent doesn't mean she sold it in the performance.

I don't want anything from the character! I was just looking for some subtle information in her delivery.

I was psyched for Bravos but wasn't happy to see Mark Gattis doing the negotiations. I expected some spice-guild weirdos with crazy hats.

I'm getting the feeling that Varys is playing the long game - stoking the fires on Lannister self-destruction to set the stage for the return of Targaryen rule. Does Varys just want to get rid of Tyrion because he knows lil dude is the only one of the Lannisters who is wise and compassionate and potentially a good leader; by getting rid of Dinklage he's just removing a check on Cersei's potential to be bad and hated, maybe?

I dunno, the "I never forget" thing seemed like it signalled he still had something up his sleeve

I expected some spice-guild weirdos with crazy hats.

― lauded at conferences of deluded psychopaths (Sparkle Motion),

Yeah I'm not a fan of how they tone down some of the more lunatic fashions from the books. Where are all the elaborate winged hairdos in Meereen?

I was psyched for Bravos but wasn't happy to see Mark Gattis doing the negotiations. I expected some spice-guild weirdos with crazy hats.

This! Man, white people are everywhere.

I'm getting the feeling that Varys is playing the long game - stoking the fires on Lannister self-destruction to set the stage for the return of Targaryen rule. Does Varys just want to get rid of Tyrion because he knows lil dude is the only one of the Lannisters who is wise and compassionate and potentially a good leader; by getting rid of Dinklage he's just removing a check on Cersei's potential to be bad and hated, maybe?

Still undecided about the extent to which this in aid of a potential Targaryen return, I hadn't considered that angle so much as just Varys wanting to destabilize the Lannisters more generally for his own ends, whatever they may be - the Targaryen thing is as plausible as anything else I suppose.

But yeah I think this is a very solid reading of Varys's actions here. Dude is clearly a shrewd judge of character and obviously it wasn't a coincidence at all that they chose to remind the viewer of that earlier quote from him about Tyrion's heroism. Also him and Tyrion always seem to have got along well enough, or at least demonstrated a certain mutual respect. The ambiguity "Unfortunately I never forget a thing" - "unfortunately" in this case because he's actually genuinely sorry that he's helped to knobble Tyrion in this ridiculous show-trial, but needs must, greater good etc.

Greater good aka good for Varys despite anyone else.

xpost
Yeah maybe pegging it to Targaryens is premature - just giving him credit for being the dude who would know dragonlady's on the rise.

He could just be getting ahead could be other stuff like Iron Bank coming down on the Lannisters or Littlefinger's own anti-Lannister long game.

Team Varys

whatever the direct motivation, makes sense that Varys would want to take Tyrion out just because T is someone who is perceptive and clued-in enough to be a potential problem to him in the future

I love Shae's accent. She can't act, but I like hearing her try.

Shae is a really tedious character in the book too. It would be nice if Sibel Kekilli had more emotional range, but the part is pretty limited.

I get that Shae is mad at Tyrion and it's been building, but her making up a bunch of shit with the intention of getting him murdered seems a bit much. I think she has to have been coached/threatened/etc.

Man this thread is a pain in the ass to load. Too much to ask to get a new thread for Season 5 when the time is right?

I'm probably repeating myself, but, accepting for different strokes & folks, I wonder why we're focusing so much on Sibel Kekilli's acting when Kit Harrington and Emilia Clarke have much higher profile roles and are outright terrible.

I think shae is by far the worst

I found it odd that Varys hinted at having ambitions to get to the throne, I thought he always wanted to stay in the background. Wonder if we'll ever see the ambitions of the old man who said extravagant bullshit praise for Joffrey that must have made the whole room cringe?

Would be funny if the show ended with a war between Varys and Littlefinger.

Harrington might not be the most charismatic in the show but I never felt he screwed up any scenes.

He screws up any scene where his mouth hangs open as though he were the simple stable boy.

Yeah, I never got the impression that Varys wanted the throne - that's where the danger is, and you can have more power in the backgroud.

Emilia Clarke have much higher profile roles and are outright terrible.

>:(

I've been thinking about making a thread about acting (unless there is one already) because I'm rarely that bothered by many performances in anything (bad scripts are more of a common problem). Not saying anyone is necessarily wrong about these actors but I think it makes sense that not all characters be totally magnetic (although I would enjoy that; sometimes I thought Oz had an unrealistically high number of fascinating characters, but several things about the show weren't supposed to be completely realistic), I see plenty of people in real life who are kind of monotone and awkward in a way you rarely see in films/tv, and people with weird wavering accents.
In fact I sometimes hear people say things that might be written off as unrealistic dialogue. I remember Chuck Palahniuk saying you often need to tone fiction down because people will find the real events they are based on too far fetched.
I've heard a lot about the books being way way more brutal and nasty but I think even the real world in medieval times was probably way more hellish and undignified than that.

I remember a review of the American Splendor film where the critic said that you'd never believe a real person acts like the actor who plays Harvey's geeky friend until you actually see the real guy later on.

Hasn't our ideas of realism been screwed up by stories?

lol:

But for me, this is like being that paralyzed kid in Game of Thrones who does the Undertaker thing with his eyes and can suddenly see whatever his pet wolf sees.

Hasn't our ideas of realism been screwed up by stories?

― Robert Adam Gilmour

Well stories are under no obligation to be realistic imo, but that's probably another thread.

I found it odd that Varys hinted at having ambitions to get to the throne, I thought he always wanted to stay in the background.

I thought his indicating the throne didn't mean the throne per se, more the concept of power.

Plus he wasn't necessarily being truthful to Oberyn. I actually see Varys as being one of the less self-interested people in King's Landing, though of course I could be wrong.

He's very much interested in preserving his own life, but as far as the usual trappings of power that the other main players chase, he seems to have little appetite for that.

I don't see Varys' testimony as a power play so much as self-preservation. He wanted to help Ned the way he wants to help Tyrion, but only behind the scenes. Once their problems get too public, he joins the dominant side.