increasingly I'm trying to avoid Wes Anderson interviews, he rarely says anything revealing and when he does I still feel like it's either obvious or I've heard it many times before. I don't know if he just doesn't like to open up or there isn't quite as much there there as I'd like to believe.
― espring (amateurist), Tuesday, March 4, 2014 2:06 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
he's a style over substance director, that's for sure, which isn't a bad thing. what he is best at, and what he seems most interested in, is conjuring a distinctive mood, at least recently. his first two films had richer characters than the ones from the past decade or so, and i i include moonrise kingdom in that. dignan's doomed naivety is much darker and more real than anything else in his oeuvre.
― james franco, Friday, 7 March 2014 00:26 (ten years ago) link
on the film 2014 programme this week, they wheeled out the old 'the style is the substance!' cliche, which sounds great and everything, but ive never found it to actually mean anything w/r/t wes anderson. but apparently this film has 'heart'. im sure it does, and i liked moonrise kingdom more than i expected to, though even there, the 'heart' of it was also ruined by wes anderson's usual stylistic tics and archness. i think critics looking for heart in his films (or political content even, which this one apparently has) might be looking in the wrong place, and also says something about critics unable to take his work as it really is. expecting real emotional resonance in a world where everyones acting is so affected and mannered seems an odd expectation. though i should really see it before i comment. i dont know why wes anderson doesnt just design doll houses for a living or directs music videos at least.
― StillAdvance, Friday, 7 March 2014 08:45 (ten years ago) link
wes anderson is a good example of why set/production designers shouldnt become directors.
― StillAdvance, Friday, 7 March 2014 08:50 (ten years ago) link
ok, that's way too harsh.
― james franco, Friday, 7 March 2014 13:19 (ten years ago) link
expecting real emotional resonance in a world where everyones acting is so affected and mannered seems an odd expectation.
Some of the most emotionally devastating movies I've seen are built on foundations of mannered acting (and I'd include The Life Aquatic on that list). Emotional dissonance is a powerful tool.
― Cherish, Friday, 7 March 2014 13:41 (ten years ago) link
Reading reviews of Wes A films barely feels worthwhile now. The ones that rate him rate this, the ones that are annoyed by him and cry style over substance are annoyed by this, even though this is doing something very different in terms of tone and setting.
Best bit in the Seitz book is when he remembers Owen Wilson reading an early draft of the script to Tenenbaums and saying it feels like one of Max's plays. I've heard that critique a hundred times now (see also: dollhouses, dioramas, trainsets), and what it misses is how much is contained within them. However stylised the movies may be, the characters and ideas that they're representing seem deeply felt (forgive the Michikoism) to me.
― What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Friday, 7 March 2014 13:56 (ten years ago) link
his first two films had richer characters than the ones from the past decade or so, and i i include moonrise kingdom in that. dignan's doomed naivety is much darker and more real than anything else in his oeuvre.
― james franco, Thursday, March 6, 2014 7:26 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ive always felt this... i liked moonrise kingdom okay but i cant tell you anything about the characters, they're just wisps... whereas dignan, max fisher, bill murray in rushmore i think about all the time
― socki (s1ocki), Friday, 7 March 2014 14:02 (ten years ago) link
i maintain owen wilson's writing was the secret ingredient
― AIDS (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 7 March 2014 15:30 (ten years ago) link
i liked moonrise kingdom okay but i cant tell you anything about the characters
when you're my age you'll understand Willis, McDormand, Murray
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Friday, 7 March 2014 15:40 (ten years ago) link
(i hope)
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Friday, 7 March 2014 15:41 (ten years ago) link
Maybe, maybe not. I already understand Tilda Swinton in every movie she's ever been in, though.
― Eric H., Friday, 7 March 2014 15:51 (ten years ago) link
emotional undercurrents of MK took several viewings to really unfold for me--and that restraint seems to give way a real depth of unforced compassion that is really moving imo.
― ryan, Friday, 7 March 2014 15:57 (ten years ago) link
i understood those characters but they didnt leap out for me
― socki (s1ocki), Friday, 7 March 2014 16:21 (ten years ago) link
― AIDS (Hungry4Ass), Friday, March 7, 2014 10:30 AM (48 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
and ive always said this
he needs a little goofy insouciance to balance his formal dollhouse-ism. together i think it was a wonderful pairing.
did they have a falling out or did OW just stop around the time of his...whatever that was
― gbx, Friday, 7 March 2014 16:49 (ten years ago) link
it's hilarious how we're still having the same arguments about this dweeb 12 years later
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 7 March 2014 17:00 (ten years ago) link
nah, their last script together was Tenenbaums in 2001 and Wilson's personal problems happened long after that. I figured he just became too big of a movie star and didn't have time to be working that closely with Wes.
Obviously it's difficult to prove who was responsible for what in the early films but it does feel like something was lost. Baumbach has talent but Roman Coppola I dunno
― Number None, Friday, 7 March 2014 17:04 (ten years ago) link
they both bring the wrong thing to the table imo
― socki (s1ocki), Friday, 7 March 2014 17:24 (ten years ago) link
Wilson hasn't written anything apart from his Wes collabs though so it's hard to work out exactly what he brought whereas Baumbach's style is obvious.
― What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Friday, 7 March 2014 17:27 (ten years ago) link
yeah, where it's not well documented, you can't tell shit from screenwriting credits.
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Friday, 7 March 2014 17:29 (ten years ago) link
glenn kenny, four stars: http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-grand-budapest-hotel-2014
as a wes anderson fan i admit this is true! i don't really expect a lot of emotional resonance from his films. i'm a bit bewildered by the critics (esp. the ones I respect, like matt zoller seitz and kent jones) that talk a lot about the depths of his films. I guess I'm just not sensitive to them. and yet, I consider myself an unabashed fan. I guess the formal dimension of his films is enough for me. and I also think they are funny, funny is very important.
― espring (amateurist), Friday, 7 March 2014 19:25 (ten years ago) link
actually, i should make one point: I think that formal patterns, or style if you want me to be less pretentious about it, can be the source of emotions. i'm not, like, deeply emotionally involved in the travails of max fisher (though there are some very affecting moments, it's true), but something about the way the thing builds to a release stylistically and motivically (sp?) carries an emotional charge for me. gratitude, or awe, or something like that.
i guess i'm correcting myself insofar as when most people talk about a movie's ability to bring forth emotion they aren't usually talking about the full range of emotions.
― espring (amateurist), Friday, 7 March 2014 19:28 (ten years ago) link
all this puts me in a weird position of actually agreeing w/ many of anderson's critics (to a point) and disagreeing with his most vocal and sophisticated boosters--even though, as I said, I'm a big fan.
I mean, I take a lot of pleasure in design, whether it's a nice dress or jacket or an extraordinary painting or just arranging stuff in my apartment in a pleasing way. those things are emotional for me, even if they aren't about love or loss etc. in any strict sense.
― espring (amateurist), Friday, 7 March 2014 19:29 (ten years ago) link
i mean, yeah, anderson's never going to make something like sansho dayu (who is?!), where all the formal mastery is put in the service of an absolutely harrowing and devastating and cathartic story. or even meet me in st. louis, for the same reasons (a film which shows a kind of mastery of color/mise-en-scene that anderson can't really touch). but not all films have to be the same, or aim for the same things, or aim as high.
― espring (amateurist), Friday, 7 March 2014 19:32 (ten years ago) link
sorry, i'll stop now.
I think you are all seriously underestimating the value of Wes Anderson films. They are great for asking people out on dates. Lighthearted but not frivolous, romantic, and an excellent bellwether for music preferences.
― erry red flag (f. hazel), Friday, 7 March 2014 19:39 (ten years ago) link
― espring (amateurist), Friday, March 7, 2014 2:32 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i think a lot of this criticism comes, though, from the fact that some people, myself included, do think he hit a really interesting balance, something very affecting and personal, early in his career, and we've been waiting for that same feeling ever since
― socki (s1ocki), Friday, 7 March 2014 19:42 (ten years ago) link
― erry red flag (f. hazel), Friday, March 7, 2014 1:39 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
unless your date is a wes andeson h8er, then you fucked up, son.
― espring (amateurist), Friday, 7 March 2014 19:49 (ten years ago) link
They are great for asking people out on dates. Lighthearted but not frivolous, romantic, and an excellent bellwether for music preferences.
Fellini movies are also great for these same reasons, imo.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 7 March 2014 19:49 (ten years ago) link
if someone asked me to a fellini movie i'd decline :(
― espring (amateurist), Friday, 7 March 2014 19:50 (ten years ago) link
unless maybe it was i vitteloni
Fellini's films don't leave much time for drinks and fucks afterwards.
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 7 March 2014 19:53 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, but during…
― Virginia, Plain and Tall (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 7 March 2014 19:57 (ten years ago) link
That's like fucking after two helpings of lasagna.
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 7 March 2014 19:59 (ten years ago) link
i would engineer Nights of Cabiria as your date movie
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Friday, 7 March 2014 20:03 (ten years ago) link
i think most of the famous ones would work ok, except 8 1/2
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 7 March 2014 20:04 (ten years ago) link
ok I have actually gone on a date to see Nights of Cabiria at the Castro
― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 7 March 2014 20:05 (ten years ago) link
loooong time ago, before I was married
in case any of you are keeping track
How about La Strada?
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 7 March 2014 20:08 (ten years ago) link
La Dolce Vita is nice too.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 7 March 2014 20:09 (ten years ago) link
i think some of you wd draw the line at the final one w/ R Benigni
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Friday, 7 March 2014 20:10 (ten years ago) link
I like Rushmore fine, and its the only one of his films to even sort of understand class instead of drool on it, but everything that I seemed cramped and bored about that film has gotten worse and worse. Moonrise kingdom was so formally constipated and numb it actually sort of me. The plot seems to be advanced by the display of beautiful objects rather than any sort of affective convolution. static and thin. It was exactly the sort of boring film that can only think of tilda swinton as a succession of still images and so she seems to exacerbate the flatness.
― plax (ico), Friday, 7 March 2014 20:20 (ten years ago) link
The trailer for this was about as much as I could bear I think
― plax (ico), Friday, 7 March 2014 20:21 (ten years ago) link
Hi plax
― peak environmental scaremongering (darraghmac), Friday, 7 March 2014 20:28 (ten years ago) link
I saw a report on another forum that this film is already having issues re: proper projection at screenings.
― Virginia, Plain and Tall (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 7 March 2014 20:31 (ten years ago) link
oh man i can imagine
― socki (s1ocki), Friday, 7 March 2014 20:37 (ten years ago) link
as a total aspect ratio hardass even that sentence gives me a bit of a panic attack
― socki (s1ocki), Friday, 7 March 2014 20:38 (ten years ago) link
i wonder, do they have anamorphic files for DCP? does this one switch between anamorphic and non? b/c to assure that the aspect ratios wouldn't be botched, they could have just encoded in one ratio and make the black bars on either side part of the file.
― espring (amateurist), Friday, 7 March 2014 20:39 (ten years ago) link
it'd be weird if the different parts of the film were encoded differently, i.e. they actually required the projector/DCP setup to switch between anamorphic and non, 1.33 and 2.25, etc. during projection.
― espring (amateurist), Friday, 7 March 2014 20:40 (ten years ago) link