Mia Farrow's son -- Ronan Seamus Farrow -- really creeps me out!

well, of course herzog would say that, he's horrible! yet lovable.

don't really have too huge a problem w/ labeling someone who commits a monstrous act a monster, do have a problem w/ doing this as a way of simplifying a matter and close off any further understanding or examination of it. thinking here of something like columbine or other prominent recent horrors (9/11 even), where there is a rush to declare it 'evil' plain and simple and any attempts to understand the act or the perpetrators is seen as diminishing the evil of the act, the suffering of the victims, and the culpability of the perps even though examining and understanding these events would help to prevent them. you can see this w/ general treatment of crime in this country where you have to get to a very specific morally justified type of crime (stealing bread for yr starving kids generally)(always bread for some reason) before some ppl might begin to understand how a person could end up doing such a thing. also comes into play w/ general prison policy, motivation of rehabilitation vs punishment.

i do think herzog is a big self-promoter and often full of gas but how is he "horrible"?

xpost

this thread is the one where we judge public figures btw, so bring em on down :)

don't really have too huge a problem w/ labeling someone who commits a monstrous act a monster, do have a problem w/ doing this as a way of simplifying a matter and close off any further understanding or examination of it. thinking here of something like columbine or other prominent recent horrors (9/11 even), where there is a rush to declare it 'evil' plain and simple and any attempts to understand the act or the perpetrators is seen as diminishing the evil of the act, the suffering of the victims, and the culpability of the perps even though examining and understanding these events would help to prevent them. you can see this w/ general treatment of crime in this country where you have to get to a very specific morally justified type of crime (stealing bread for yr starving kids generally)(always bread for some reason) before some ppl might begin to understand how a person could end up doing such a thing. also comes into play w/ general prison policy, motivation of rehabilitation vs punishment.

― balls, Wednesday, February 12, 2014 1:30 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

agreed w/ all of this. but would add that the labeling of offenders of various kinds "monsters" (or something similar) has even broader effects, e.g. allowing laws that ban felons and ex-felons from voting. in general it helps to cast offenders out of sight, banished from the body politic.

right, but i mean allowing these people to be called monsters sort of precludes any meaningful progress on the issues the both of you just discussed. that's exactly why the tone of the conversation needs to be changed. the words we choose to use have consequences

i think we're all in agreement actually. release the confetti.

xp nah i'm just being facetious. he's probably just a jerk at worst

yeah i'm only comfortable w/ labeling such ppl 'monsters' in the sense that i'm comfortable w/ labeling humanity savage and monstrous in general. which is somewhat sentimental and anthrocentric of me since we're not esp more monstrous or savage than the other apes, we're just more intelligent and hence more effective and diverse in exploring our savagery (and tbf more diverse and effective in exploring the 'better angels of our nature' or whatever). there's a general 'fuck them all/let god sort 'em out' dumb vengeful aspect to laws like banning felons from voting or the registering of sex offenders that can prevent any usefulness that might be gleaned from a similar law. thinking here of drug laws like the rockefeller laws or laws targeted at crack where there was an emotional response that if anything exacerbated the misery. the tide has turned here somewhat but only by shifting moral perspectives - fewer morbs, more mordys essentially - and esp by the prospect that there's money to be made.

fuck you

anne ramsey everybody

you know jackshit about my moral sense of anything

also Anne Ramsey had esophageal cancer, not mine

yeah I think that reference was kind of uncalled for in that morbs wasn't really engaging w/ you ATM. honestly both of you could do a little more to keep conversation relatively civil in part by not calling out people like that when it isn't strictly warranted.

i know I'm putting a big target sign on my shirt by writing that, and I know I've failed to meet the same standard in the past (esp. in one particular instance), but... yeah. it's something i'd been meaning to write.

i don't know how best to put this but... balls, in particular, you're really smart and have lots of things to offer so I'd say you have a special burden to be a little more civil.

but I sound like a schoolmarm, so I 'll shut up.

i'm glad i don't have such a burden

i think balls just meant that morbz vocally hates potheads

mea culpa! sometimes you kid around too much and feelings get hurt, it happens sometimes when i play w/ my dogs. hey speaking of woody allen apparently sid caesar has died.

fwiw some of my best friends are potheads

i'm glad i don't have such a burden

― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:44 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you're really smart but you seldom post more than a line or two of invective. i wish it were otherwise.

sorry I'm just digging myself a hole

In which Wallace Shawn says the same shit as everyone else but comes to the conclusion that he's a nice guy, so there's almost no way he could've done it: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/commentary/la-oe-shawn-woody-allen-20140216,0,1696007.story#axzz2tX8F2Yb5

I've never become a friend of Woody Allen or even had any terribly lengthy conversations with him, but I've been in his orbit enough so that I can't possibly see him as the abstract, weird cardboard fantasy figure that one reads about. In fact, like so many of those who have worked with him repeatedly over the decades, I've found him to be not merely thoughtful, serious and honest, but extraordinary and even inspiring in his thoughtfulness, seriousness and honesty. Of the people I've known, he's one of those I've respected most. And for that reason, I personally would have to say that it would take overwhelming evidence to convince me that he had sexually abused a child, just as it would take overwhelming evidence to convince me that Desmond Tutu, Franklin D. Roosevelt or Doris Lessing had sexually abused a child

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/commentary/la-oe-shawn-woody-allen-20140216,0,1696007.story#ixzz2tXBbhiIU

Goddammit, Alfred.

he makes a good point, guys who seem nice never do anything bad

contrariwise, guilty people are easily identifiable by their top hats, handlebar mustaches, and snidely whiplash-like laughs.

eh he's clearly accusing the other three imo

"Of the people I've known, he's one of those I've respected most."

Wow Wallace Shawn has known exceedingly shitty people, because I'd say Woody Allen (even short accusations of pedophilia) seems like a shallow self-absorbed jerk. In Allen's defense I'd say at least he seems to be somewhat aware of that (or at least he's not shy about making movies which are thinly veiled references to it). But comparing him to DESMOND TUTU is basically insane.

So he worked with him on one film and didn't even get to know him that well but having been "in his orbit" qualifies him to weigh in on this FUCK YOU WALLACE SHAWN

sorry more than one film, still fuck you wallace shawn

weigh in on this weigh in on this or weigh in on this in the latimes weigh in on this

So Wallace Shawn is saying he finds the possibility of Allen's guilt...inconceivable

i fully expected that FD Roosevelt link to go to an allegation against him. :P

first paragraph is true, rest is just like the bullshit internet opinions it criticizes

xp auuuuuuuuugh

Wallace Shawn's wife is the cousin of one of my high school girlfriends.

When is the Times publishing her open letter?

Haw

http://gawker.com/times-critic-blasts-nick-kristof-says-dylan-farrow-wan-1527880499

How dare a sexual assault survivor want her story to be heard.

A few minutes later, Maslin argued that Allen “managed to rehabilitate himself through his work” and that “he went through a very dark period creatively.”

When approached in the film center’s lobby, Maslin declined to elaborate on her remarks. “Please do not write about what I said in there,” she said.

hard to imagine a suitably scathing response to this

this is the first noteworthy thing maslin has said/written, i think.

“he went through a very dark period creatively.”

in some of the 90s movies the characters say fuck!

lol latebloomer

“he went through a very dark period creatively.”

there is no way of speaking that sentence, in any context, without sounding like an ass. in this particular context, of course, it's especially gross.

Scoop was some dark shit man

the ronan farrow interview on the daily show the other night really creeped me out. he spent the whole time explaining his very precocious/unusual life, which of course is not his fault, but interjecting a dose of pandering to millennials or w/e, which came across v hamfisted, and then following that up with self-deprecation, apparently realizing how bad he is at pandering. man i was real uncomfortable.

What a stupid child Maslin is. It's kind of shocking that someone like that has a position of any prominence in society.

it's sad but lots of people (even on this board) share the same opinion, so i'm not surprised a prominent film critic would take Allen's side. sibling rivalry though... ergh

It's not just her opinion but her particularly stupid justifications for it. Plus I kind of hold someone using their public platform to spout this kind of shit to a higher standard than someone on a message board.