So ILE doesn't have a Meredith Kercher/FoxyKnoxy murder thread yet?

again: i agree there are serious problems with the legal system in many European countries. to contrast the US and UK as models of "getting it right" is pretty fucken laughable to me

Goody for you! Who's suggesting that?

any criticisms of the Kercher case - and i'm sure there are many valid ones - ought to be made from a standpoint that doesn't try to compare Italy's justice system with yr own morally corrupt, racist, murderous justice system tho.

yeah I think everyone has just been pointing what is fucked up, not holding up anyone else's as an ideal

I mean unless you want to go on about the positives of the Italian justice system and how this is an amazing outlier and how it is better than other systems

5. Wannabe progressives who think criminal prosecutors are allies in the fight for justice are

Who did you have in mind here?

If the clown shoe fits...

ach, maybe we're all deliberately misreading each other's tone

maybe

I do think a criminal justice system is best measured on the quality of its defense bar and have a personal bias that convicted innocents are worse than acquitted bad guys. That's really the only point where I would say the US system is the best in the world, which is sadly not the same thing as saying it's any good.

But if you're guilty and want to confess, pretty much anywhere else but the US has a better criminal justice system.

maybe instead of talking about the relative merits of western criminal justice systems, which is sort of boring, we could talk about whether we think sollecito and knox dun it or not (which could involve the criminal justice system, of course; there are many many ppl out there who think the justice system has been stacked in favour of knox and sollectio, fwiw, ibid the aforementioned kook-town sites with encyclopedic knowledge of the various justices assigned to the case and their supposed ties to the mafia)

the other thing i want to talk about is how sollecito has transformed over the years!! he started out as, in knox's words, "an italian harry potter" and looks like a kind of thick-necked iron-pumpin' good ol' boy

i mean he NOW looks like a thick-necked iron-pumpin' good ol' boy. the change is remarkable

honestly i'm happy to know next to nothing about this case

Maybe Knox had a wildly differing image of Harry after reading the books.

for what it's worth TWU i also prefer a system that errs on the side of the defendant, and if i made my initial snipe after you posted that was mainly because i've read a lot lately that has a tone of condescencion to the Italians or fails to distinguish between an unsafe conviction and innocence

and my half-reading of your comment was the trigger, i shd add

the details are SO CRAZY though goole. i just go down a rabbit hole with it. there is a crazy amount of physical evidence. DNA on a knife. a set of bloody footprints. a different bloody (bare) footprint in the bathroom. an unflushed shit in the toilet. a seemingly staged break-in. WHERE IS KALINDA WHEN YOU NEED HER.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01240/perugia2_1240580c.jpg

http://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Video/__NEW/tdy_mor_sollecito_140131.standard.jpg

ha i had to google that name

xp

xp -- Fair enough, NV, there is still bad feeling about the Zimmerman thread and my strawmanning thereon, so I came out aggressive.

there was a guy who broke into the apartment and robbed them who pleaded guilty to murdering her. The evidence against him was, i think, stronger than against knox.

I thought Guede didn't plead guilty?

I mean, I thought he'd admitted to being present when the murder was committed, not to the murder itself?

tracer i get you, i love a good rabbit hole. but this whole thing just reads like nancy grace explaining a christopher nolan movie to me

sorry to trivialize a real actual murder but all the world is text etc

I tried to read the Wikipedia on this but could not understand any version of what supposedly happened.

Have you ever considered a role in the Italian judiciary?

tracer i get you, i love a good rabbit hole. but this whole thing just reads like nancy grace explaining a christopher nolan movie to me

goole bringing his classic sense of wordplay, hats off to you, sir

I tried to read the Wikipedia on this but could not understand any version of what supposedly happened.

― ryan, Tuesday, February 4, 2014 1:40 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Have you ever considered a role in the Italian judiciary?

― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Tuesday, February 4, 2014 1:42 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

He'd be overqualified.

hope to god three word username isn't going to law school

Drop dead, you hateful little weasel.

substance of TWU's posts otm

Am I seeing things?

http://cdn4.pitchfork.com/albums/20190/homepage_large.49b6343b.jpg

No, you're right

http://www.arenbergschouwburg.be/content/dam/arenberg/Agenda/Seizoen%2013%20-%2014/Nina-Persson.jpg

this is good (UK only i'm afraid)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03wd39x

what's it doing on BBC3 then?

It's a programme for kidz obv.

court says the murder was likely not result of sex game gone wrong, but of an attempt to bully and humiliate meredith kercher, possibly after knox had stolen her rent money

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/29/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox/

"There is nothing against me and nothing very strong against Amanda," Sollecito recently told CNN. "And in my case, I really did nothing wrong, and I don't want to pay for someone else's peculiar behavior."

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/26/world/europe/italy-knox-ex-boyfriend/?hpt=bosread

new vid from that night:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/may/06/amanda-knox-alibi-new-cctv-footage-video

The figure in the CCTV video has a very herky jerky walk, while the video of Amanda shows that she has a smooth, purposeful strut.

Andrea Vogt
‏@andreavogt
Both raffaelle Sollecito and #amandaknox convictions have been fully overturned. Cries of joy in courtroom from sollecito's family
Rome, Lazio

Dude

I had fully signed up to Knox and Sollecito being lying-ass liars about this somehow

Well, they are definitely lying-ass liars, which is what has made this whole thing troubling for me, because that doesn't necessarily make them guilty of murder.

apparently everyone was stunned by the verdict - defense, prosecution, everybody

Yeah i did a 180 on this. I always used to see them as the victims of a botched investigation but there's always been something really off about these two

Bit of evidence linking them to the crime for which someone is already doing time would be nice.

Thankfully not the person she falsely accused for no reason.

She looks like Billy Corgan. Therefore, probably a wrong'un.

they're a bit odd but from what I read of any of this over time there was hardlly any evidence connection them to it. I admit it seems like people outside of the US seem to have a completley different take on this for some reason.

They've spent an enormous amount of money managing the media in the US, which goes some way towards explaining the divide.

No point beating a dead horse at this point, but Salon sums it up nicely:

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/27/amanda_knox_verdict_the_real_evidence_and_why_almost_everything_you_think_you_know_about_the_case_is_wrong/

Are we gonna have a Serial/Jinx treatment of this in years to come?