Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

Watched aUC, but after a stupidly early start in the morning didn't have the stamina to watch any more than 3/4 of Cave of Skulls (interestingly announced as episode 2 of aUC by continuity). It was as great as ever - last watched <6 months ago - but Tribe of Gum is a plodder, really.

In terms of characterisation, smoothed is definitely the way to describe Hartnell. In The Daleks/The Mutants/The Dead Planet/Serial B he empties the fluid link to fake a reason to investigate the city (which would be barking if it wasn't all a con, as he has no way of knowing that the Dalek city might have mercury in it). In the Edge of Destruction/Inside The Spaceship/Serial C he drugs Ian and Barbara because he suspects them as saboteurs. In The Aztecs he very nearly decides to stay there indefinitely, as he meets a woman and they are going to get married. In The Romans he decides to go to the city, lengthening their stay by months - precisely because of this delay Ian and Barbara get captured. But then when the Time/Space Viewer turns up he's quite happy for it to be played with so Barbara can see the Gettysburg Address. He's definitely the most self-serving Doctor, and in many ways the most child-like. He's doing things because he wants to do them, not because he thinks it's fun for anyone else. But he actively grows up by the time companions start leaving, and once we get to Steven/Dodo he's *probably* close to what was originally imagined for the character.

TARDIS camouflage is made explicit in Attack of the Cybermen, where the chaeleon circuit is linked to the guidance control - fixing it causes a forced landing and while it works in Part 1 of the story it has reverted to the police box shape itself by the end of the story (suggesting it's the sentient TARDIS that has the attachment to the shape, not necessarily the Doctor).

yeah, think I know the fate of the 2nd TARDIS to appear. Will teach Meddling monks to arms trade with defending Brits won't it? Or is that the one?
& if so what species was the character played by Peter Butterworth? Is it stated/

I thought there might be some input on the chameleon circuit from the sentient TARDIS yeah.

Oh right I see when I said specials I meant the magazines I'm talking about in the message above you took me to mean the tv specials?

xp

There are the About Time books by Tat Wood and Lawrence MIles – they have a lot of the basic series info (they're structured as episode guides) but are also full of speculation, argument, tv history, culture rambles. I really enjoy them as a casual pick-up read (I don't know what more hardcore fans think of them).

'casual pick-up read'. Apparently saying they're good books for the loo is beneath me.

The Monk's is the first other TARDIS we see, yes. One of my favourite cliffhangers.

You could also try the three Discontinuity Guides - making a good case for there not being a single canon of what's right and what's wrong.

yeah was trying to see if there actually was an accepted single canon, was what I was asking.

Is anything currently being written in the broadcast tv stories actually reliant on any kind of continuity from the 60s stories? Other than the Great Intelligence that is. Just wondering if there is likely to be relevance anyway.

Other than basic story that this is a guy who for some reason is somewhat adrift in space/time.
& now that is because he was about the sole survivor of a race that wasn't introduced until the end of the 60s because of a war that was only introduced as a backstory for Christopher Eccleston in 2005.
& the relationship with the Tardis has been rethought and more thoroughly explained than at the time

So I'd guess not that much really? Not on a cosmic scale.

no, there's no single coherent canon of Doctor Who that can be pointed to. there's plenty of little pieces of continuity from the 60s and up though, and it's all theoretically in the same one story - but it takes fanwank to excuse a lot of the casual contradictions.

(Moffat's simple fanwank is that the Doctor just fucks about in time so much that things get changed by accident.)

It's not even stated that The Monk is of an alien race, just that he "must come from the same [future] time" as the Doctor.

I'm not able to play it on zing, but the animation of that google doodle is BULLSHIT. Hartnell, Colin and McCoy never had a sonic screwdriver and Troughton's was actually screwdriver-sized. GHOD google GET IT RIGHT

also the google thing doesn't seem to have John Hurt Doctor in it but i am probably demonstrating my ignorance

well that's because John Hurt isn't the Doctor

(ie the whole "giving up the title in order to be the bastard who ends The Time War" thing)

i said i was ignorant! i mean i don't care too much, the fanboy/retcon stuff hurts my head, i'm just in it for the ride

also i don't want to spoiler for tomorrow but "I am not a Doctor" is some hilarious cobblers

Impressive contributors to this BFI listicle:

http://www.bfi.org.uk/news-opinion/news-bfi/lists/50-best-doctor-who-moments

Marcus Hearn's new 'vault' book is a partic good on the show's production history.

Thought Jessica Raine was partic gd as Verity Lambert in the Gatiss thing last night.

Yeah, the Marcus Hearn book is really pretty good for production material. A bit light elsewhere, but you can't have everything.

the Hearn book is great! but Sarah Jane got shafted in it, I think she's in two photos. IMO she's the second most important character in the show's history (after the Doctor himself); arguably more important than, say, Colin Baker's Dr himself.

(in other words I heart Elisabeth Sladen and could do with 100's of photos of her in her 70's garb, she is my crush forever)

the Hearn book is great! but Sarah Jane got shafted in it, I think she's in two photos. IMO she's the second most important character in the show's history (after the Doctor himself); arguably more important than, say, Colin Baker's Dr himself.

2nd most important character in the show's history is The Master IMO

OTM re 70s garb tho

http://sarahjanesmith.cosmic-archer.com/

adventures in time and space = excellent. great story, great set design and costumes, great performances. I felt like maybe they over dramatized hartnell in general but what do I know.

sons of gallifrey = no, no rusty. it seems mostly fan driven, and also asian dude from the doctor who movie (the mcgann one).

sons of gallifrey --- what an awful idea.

http://io9.com/10-biggest-dodged-bullets-in-the-history-of-doctor-who-1285157819

I might have done Rusty a disservice if number 9 is right.

Sooooo psyched for this tonight!

Adv in Space & Time was great. Ending was a bit rmde but it got me good and teary, v lovely & fitting tribute overall.

I saw Captain Jack presenting a game show on the BBC called Pressure Pad or something yesterday and it was so sad :(

:(

You never saw Tonight's The Night, obviously.

Or that thing with the kids in it.

Dear lord this preshow is hell on earth

Just saw the Adventures Through Space and Time and I guess I realize the big spoiler now because I saw Dalek Invasion of Earth and they keep coming back to it in the new special. I won't say any more but I hope I'm right cos that would be pretty damn cool of them to do that.

I think once you get used to the fact that this is both a harrowing examination of holocaust guilt and a bit of a romp, it improves. Obviously it's crying out for Ecclestone.

That was pretty good. Would watch the shit out of more of Hurt, Tennant and Smith zinging around.

Absolutely

Hmmm, it left me a little bit cold. Final surprise appearance blew me away though :D

I thought that was pretty good NuWho, an amalgam of catchphrases, pratfalls, emo and exposition. I did like that John Hurt seems to be as sick of the antics as some of the rest of us. I'm not sure I am that keen on the plot that seems to be planned but hey-ho.

Am I the only one wondering what actually happened with the Zygons? That whole plot was just left hanging.

By Christ this BBC3 thing is painful.

The tiny Capaldi cameo was nice. Really, really wish they'd been able to get Eccleston back, though.

Wasn't expecting Baker, and we both went "WHOA" when Capaldi turned up briefly too. Though we were getting a proper Eccleston cameo at the end of Hurt's regeneration, but you can't have everything.

The Hurt regeneration wasn't quite long enough to resolve the face he was turning into, was it?

I will look at sadder places on the interwebs and see if someone has captured it.

that were rub

We were pretty sure it was Eccleston's face.

yeah pretty well done I thought.
enjoyed that, do wonder if it was any better in 3d in the cinema but good show pretty genuinely touching. Interesting story and cameos.
Hurt was a decent doctor so possibly a shame he didn't get to be one for longer.

this show now is like Bobby Ewing stepping out of the shower once a year

Re: Baker - was that not leaked at all? I guess everyone is in as much mortal fear of losing their job as I am! Have to admit, as soon as we had the picture-locked version in at work, I scrubbed to the end to see if any of the old dudes popped up...

And, yeah, it's McGann>Hurt>Eccles.

Yeah, it was definitely heading towards Eccleston when it cut. I guess the very start of Eccleston's first episodes shows him reacting to his new features, but still...

Baker leaked it himself, the mad old duffer!

Obviously it's crying out for Ecclestone.

Yeah, I've nothing against John Hurt, but I think Ecclestone could've played that part better, and it would've tied nicely to the survivor guilt he was feeling in the beginning of season 1. I wonder if they asked him and he refused?

But not counting that, this was tremendously good! Everyone did a fine job, there was nice mixture of Serious Stuff and adventure. Obviously the plot had a few holes as tends to be the case with big Who stories, but at least this time the Timey Wimey paradoxes weren't big enough to stop me from enjoying the plot.

Outside the plot, characterization in this episode was very good, the inter-Doctor jabs thrown by the three were funny, and here was even some time left for minor character moments (I loved the scientist girl with the glasses). Billie Piper being there felt pretty extraneous, again it would've made more sense if Ecclestone had been there instead of Hurt. But I think they did the best they good with what they had. And the cameo in the end was a nice touch, obviously. It managed to surprise me, though I guess something like that was to expected.

(Whoa, loads of xposts while I was writing that!)

as an episode of NuWho, 7/10 with bonus points for cameos and callbacks, but as the Anniversary Special that the world's tuned into bcuz "Hey it's this massive global institution that's lasted half a century!", well it didn't really deliver. Plot with Zygons could've been any episode, use of Billie Piper not as Rose Tyler was utterly gratuitous. Would've preferred it if McGann had been used / Eccleston had been persuadable

The Hurt regeneration wasn't quite long enough to resolve the face he was turning into, was it?

I don't think so, but the comment he made about his ears (something like "I hope they won't so as noticeable") made it pretty obvious he would morph into Ecclestone. Wasn't one of the first things Ecclestone said in his first episode a comment on his ears? That was nice touch in this one.