"I Hope You're Happy Now, Jacob"--The LOST Season 5 Thread

u could tell jack had already started to spiral down cause he had some stubble goin

gotta love expository facial hair.

widmore said that he and the others protected the island for 30 years so i guess he was still there and was the leader when Ben arrived. i wonder if this means that Penny was born on the island.

So Widmore is still on the island at the same point Jin and co "now" are right? Can't wait to see the young actor who played him but with a beard and a paunch.

Yeah, Jack was a red-eyed mess last night even before Locke tried to talk him into going back.

I don't doubt that Jack was pills-n-booze crazy before Locke showed up, but Ben told Locke that Jack had bought the ticket to Sydney as though it was the first time that Jack had done so, and indeed that his encounter with Locke in the hospital is what inspired him. Which contradicts the S3 finale, in which Jack tells Kate that he's been flying "every weekend."

I figured that as a standard Ben Whopper®.

how did Ben hear about that anyway?

I figured that as a standard Ben Whopper®.

I guess, but I hate how that can be used to justify pretty much anything. "Oh, Ben just made up meaningless lists for Pickett and Ethan because he was bored and wanted to assert his authority over them."

uh, the list thing is pretty clear now. ben has known people are going to land on this island that showed up there when he was a little kid and he's been waiting for them.

Yeah, that was a bad example.

One more complaint, though: "Good thing they're just dreams, huh?" No way does Locke shrug off a dream from Walt like that. Locke is the dude who built a sweat lodge on the beach so that a hallucination of Boone could tell him what to do.

you are a bad example

locke didn't want to drag walt back into it (he made that clear to abbaddon), so he pretended to shrug it off

think Locke just wanted to re-assure Walt. otoh Locke broke new levels of dumbness last night for not asking Widmore 20 questions. xp

still not entirely sure about the list thing tho (was Jin on the list? Frank Lapidus?)

we don't know who young ben interacts with on the island yet.

So if Locke is Jesus, then Ben is Pontius Pilate, right? So does that make Kate the devil? Trying to tempt Locke into abandoning his divine whatever & get himself a normal life?

we don't know who young ben interacts with on the island yet

There's an upcoming episode titled "He's Our You" which I'm thinking is what the 815ers will tell young Ben when he asks who this bug-eyed dude who just showed up is.

Yeah, that was a bad example.

I think I'm confusing Ethan and Pickett'sGoodwin's lists of 815 survivors with Jacob's list (Pickett: "Shephard isn't even on Jacob's list!"), which was always sort of vague (is it "good" people? "strong" people?) and therefore something I wouldn't be surprised to find dropped altogether. But it's not directly related to Ben.

Hey Susie, am I talking to a dude in a wheelchair right now?

made us laugh:

in tunisia, widmore shows john that he's been watching the 6. shows him a picture of sayid working on a roof.

john flys there, rolls onto the work site and there's sayid, STILL HAMMERING ON THAT SAME DAMN NAIL!

also, abbadon's limp body tumbling off the back of the car was pretty raw

I was waiting for Ben to run up. "John! Wait! It's just me, I'm not shooting at YOU!"

How sad is it that Ben is running around doing his own shootings?

Why do people think that was Walt being written out? If they were writing him out, why bother bringing him back at the end of the last series at all. Pretty sure those dreams are time jumps/hallucinations/someone fucking around with his past Daniel/Desmond style. He'll be back for sure, maybe not until next season though.

This episode was mostly confusing because Widmore, Ben and Locke all seemingly had the same objective and yet on opposing sides. Widmore as first leader of the Others and Ben conning him off the island is a pretty significant reveal though. I'm glad duplicitous sinister Ben is back, as opposed to "hey we're all friends now" Ben.

I'm kind of done with them filling in off-island gaps but I suppose there are more to come. Got a feeling that at some point between Locke's death and "we have to go back", the ghost of Christian is gonna appear to Jack and that's what finally convinces him. After all, Hurley's been seeing dead island people for ages.

request for animated "FAIL" gif with frames for each person who turns Locke's plea to go back to the island down.

That reminds me, I wanted to smack Kate for being so smug and superior when Locke asked her to go back to the island.

She got people killed so that she could get a toy fucking airplane! So her being so snide and judgemental towards Locke was a bit much.

yeah exactly and "have you ever been in love" coming from island-ho who flits between jack and sawyer every half season.

I still can't work out the Ben thing but my gut feeling was that he always intended to kill John but was just hitting him up for info first. I don't think it was a case of any specific bit of info changing his mind and causing him to murder Locke.

Or perhaps once he heard about Hawking and Jin he decided he didn't need John.

What is weird tho is why after killing John he wants to bring his coffin to the island etc. I mean that makes no fucking sense whatsoever at this point.

i think if Ben was gonna kill Locke (again) he would've just brought a gun with him and not improv'd with the cable tho. really did seem like a spot decision made entirely on Locke confirming awareness/existence of Eloise (if not also Jin).

no ben killed locke because he said he wouldnt bring sun back - ben needs for them all to come back

Maybe the island didn't want Locke to commit suicide. I mean, Jesus didn't.

Kate was such an unjustified smug married in that scene. At least Jack had the courtesy to lay into him and call him a sad old loser. I'm sort of starting to hate Kate now.

kate was def being insufferable but what she was talking abt was aaron thats who she had to love and why she couldnt go back - then aaron is suddenly gone and shes on the next plane

btw i luv the loser aspect of lockes character - has great tension w/his messiah trip

So this episode gave us confirmation that--as we suspected all along--some of the people on 815 had been manipulated into being on there so that they'd end up on the island. Now that we know that Miss Hawking can predict which flights will cross paths with the island (even though, um, 815 was way off course) we can be pretty sure that certain people knew it would crash on the island. If Widmore sent Abbadon to get Locke on the plane, then it's likely that someone (maybe not Widmore) also wanted Claire and some of the others on that particular plane. And obviously Widmore also engineered Des's arrival as well.

I definitely got the impression that Ben hadn't intended to kill Locke - when Locke mentions Eloise the way Ben says ".... are you sure?" sounds like he had to make a quick decision that killing him was necessary. Also, surely if he had intended to kill him at any time before that moment he would have just yanked the cable instead of helping him untie it? It also sounded like he was just humouring John about not bringing Sun back - like Ben would just do it in a nasty way anyway.
Brilliant bit of the episode though; and still has got me a-puzzlin'.

to do all that he must've known enough info in advance tho - still leaving too much to chance otherwise (given that 815 crashed directly thru Desmond actions which couldn't really be controlled) xp

xxp to cutty's talk of lists - Hey well will you look at that? Jin just found Jack, Hurley and Kate, Sawyer presumably in the Dharma Initiative, and those are the people who get put on the "list" at the end of season 2. It sounds like Sun (and Lapidus) have a boat, hopefully Sayid will get to them and somehow Jin will get there and we'll have all the players in the same place now.

I wonder if that means that Lapidus et all were the shooters in the other canoe - but I guess there were three, were there? Did the "survivors" of the second crash take the canoes to the main island? Oh, confusing confusing.

Great episode, one of the best so far this season.

What struck me was the idea that Jack may have only really been set up for all this, for taking a plane that crashes onto the island, just so he could bring his dead father on the island again. Just like Jack/Ben are bringing a 'dead' Locke onto the island. Could Jack merely be a utility in his father's history? In other words: is Christian not way more important than the series has shown us so far?

One thing I seem to have missed entirely: why are the woman (who escorted Sayid) and the man (in the beginning snooping around in the office) on this plane? Did someone send them, or are they an entirely new group of 'Others' from now on?

Definitely seems like Caesar and/or Ilana are agents for Ben or Widmore, they seem far too calm. I did forget about Sayid though - if he crashed with the other 316ers, I think it would've been mentioned the same way Sun was likely referred to offhandly as running off with Lapidus. It might have just been missed, but it's still possible he got flashed to Dharma time.

Love the "passenger list" thing coming back from Season 1, when they used it to discover Ethan was an Other. Really crazy though, that the runway Jack, Kate and Sawyer were building as prisoners of the Others in Season 3 comes back now, for 316 to land on!

I've been assuming for no real reason that the 06 all appeared in the 1970s - the woman with Lapidus could be any one of the cabin crew. I doubt anyone died on the plane, if only because they're running out of redshirts to kill.

Why would Sun be the woman who left with Lapidus? Just because we didn't see her with the other O6 people when they re-crashed? (x-post)

I don't think Walt's story is done yet - what about him getting kidnapped by the Others and them being all impressed and weirded out by his powers? I suppose they could explain all this without needing the kid himself, though.

I hope the hot stewardess survived.

(Unrelated-to-discussion nerd-out factoid: Apparently there's an episode coming up called "Some Like it Hoth").

I like that is telling strangers that he rose from the dead.

Totally goes against the "conceal everything from everyone" rule of the show.

uh, I meant that Locke is telling them that, obv

locke's always been like that though, he knows everyone will just think he's bonkers and ignore him anyway. like him telling Sawyer about Taller Ghost Walt.

in tunisia, widmore shows john that he's been watching the 6. shows him a picture of sayid working on a roof.

john flys there, rolls onto the work site and there's sayid, STILL HAMMERING ON THAT SAME DAMN NAIL!

I lol'd.

I'm wondering how long it's been since Locke left for Sawyer, Jin, Juliet etc. Since Jin has already managed to infiltrate Dharma, they could easily have been there for a few months, maybe even a couple of years before Jack, Kate and Hurley returned.

Since Jin has already managed to infiltrate Dharma

He's infiltrating? I thought he was captured/brainwashed/forced to comply, or simply help them out to stay alive (ie. he has nobody on the island, in that time)

whichever. i assumed he was infiltrating because of Faraday being seen doing whatever he was doing in the Orchid at the start of the season. mainly i was wondering if it's only been a few days or longer for those stuck in Dharma-era.

look like hes just chillin w/dharma all contented inside his jump suit

I see, I forgot about that Faraday scene.