"I Hope You're Happy Now, Jacob"--The LOST Season 5 Thread

Both of them landed three years in the future or so.

Not true. Here's the scene where he arrives at the hotel in Tunisia:

BEN: Yes. Um, today's date is...

NARJISS: October 24th, sir.

BEN: (Embarrassedly) 2005?

NARJISS: Yes, sir. 2005.

Oh I see. Thanks, that was confusing me.

I guess Widmore has been busy in Tunisia since then.

If Ben had resigned himself that the island/Jacob didn't want him around anymore, why did he decide he wanted to go back?

"don't say revenge, don't say revenge..."

yeah Jack's downward spiral in the short space of time between him meeting Locke and Locke's death is weird. and why would reading Locke's obit make Jack want to kill himself in turn? i guess he was already halfway there, being haunted by christian's ghost and all but still, it doesn't seem to make much sense at all. same with kate, her meeting with Locke seemed to be relatively peaceful, so no idea why she was so angry and slapping jack when he tried to convince her to go back later.

Also, this isn't something I would've remembered myself, but somewhere else someone pointed out that Walt told Hurley in S4 that "Jeremy Bentham" had come to see him.

sooner or later a man gets tired of his head a-bobblin'

a lot of this episode was just showing us things we had already been told about. i don't think we really learned enough new shit.

One thing I missed: Who told Locke that he needed to visit Eloise Hawking? Widmore? Christian? Abaddon?

ben killing locke and being injured and the whole rest of the people on the new plane on island scenario was all pretty exciting imo

Who told Locke that he needed to visit Eloise Hawking?

Richard no?

nah christian. just before the frozen donkey wheel.

a lot of this episode was just showing us things we had already been told about. i don't think we really learned enough new shit.

the past few episodes are all annoying like this. we didn't really have to see rousseau's backstory, or find out that charlotte grew up on the island.

yeah Jack's downward spiral in the short space of time between him meeting Locke and Locke's death is weird.

I think his spiral started well before Locke showed up. He knew for some time that he should never have left the island, but was lying to himself and trying to drink/drug the feeling out of himself. When Locke showed up as a physical manifestation of his guilt, telling him that he had to go back, Jack tried once again to reject it, but was unable to. When he saw that Locke had died the guilt caught up to him.

it's mostly cool tho, just want more discoveries with it xp

u could tell jack had already started to spiral down cause he had some stubble goin

gotta love expository facial hair.

widmore said that he and the others protected the island for 30 years so i guess he was still there and was the leader when Ben arrived. i wonder if this means that Penny was born on the island.

So Widmore is still on the island at the same point Jin and co "now" are right? Can't wait to see the young actor who played him but with a beard and a paunch.

Yeah, Jack was a red-eyed mess last night even before Locke tried to talk him into going back.

I don't doubt that Jack was pills-n-booze crazy before Locke showed up, but Ben told Locke that Jack had bought the ticket to Sydney as though it was the first time that Jack had done so, and indeed that his encounter with Locke in the hospital is what inspired him. Which contradicts the S3 finale, in which Jack tells Kate that he's been flying "every weekend."

I figured that as a standard Ben Whopper®.

how did Ben hear about that anyway?

I figured that as a standard Ben Whopper®.

I guess, but I hate how that can be used to justify pretty much anything. "Oh, Ben just made up meaningless lists for Pickett and Ethan because he was bored and wanted to assert his authority over them."

uh, the list thing is pretty clear now. ben has known people are going to land on this island that showed up there when he was a little kid and he's been waiting for them.

Yeah, that was a bad example.

One more complaint, though: "Good thing they're just dreams, huh?" No way does Locke shrug off a dream from Walt like that. Locke is the dude who built a sweat lodge on the beach so that a hallucination of Boone could tell him what to do.

you are a bad example

locke didn't want to drag walt back into it (he made that clear to abbaddon), so he pretended to shrug it off

think Locke just wanted to re-assure Walt. otoh Locke broke new levels of dumbness last night for not asking Widmore 20 questions. xp

still not entirely sure about the list thing tho (was Jin on the list? Frank Lapidus?)

we don't know who young ben interacts with on the island yet.

So if Locke is Jesus, then Ben is Pontius Pilate, right? So does that make Kate the devil? Trying to tempt Locke into abandoning his divine whatever & get himself a normal life?

we don't know who young ben interacts with on the island yet

There's an upcoming episode titled "He's Our You" which I'm thinking is what the 815ers will tell young Ben when he asks who this bug-eyed dude who just showed up is.

Yeah, that was a bad example.

I think I'm confusing Ethan and Pickett'sGoodwin's lists of 815 survivors with Jacob's list (Pickett: "Shephard isn't even on Jacob's list!"), which was always sort of vague (is it "good" people? "strong" people?) and therefore something I wouldn't be surprised to find dropped altogether. But it's not directly related to Ben.

Hey Susie, am I talking to a dude in a wheelchair right now?

made us laugh:

in tunisia, widmore shows john that he's been watching the 6. shows him a picture of sayid working on a roof.

john flys there, rolls onto the work site and there's sayid, STILL HAMMERING ON THAT SAME DAMN NAIL!

also, abbadon's limp body tumbling off the back of the car was pretty raw

I was waiting for Ben to run up. "John! Wait! It's just me, I'm not shooting at YOU!"

How sad is it that Ben is running around doing his own shootings?

Why do people think that was Walt being written out? If they were writing him out, why bother bringing him back at the end of the last series at all. Pretty sure those dreams are time jumps/hallucinations/someone fucking around with his past Daniel/Desmond style. He'll be back for sure, maybe not until next season though.

This episode was mostly confusing because Widmore, Ben and Locke all seemingly had the same objective and yet on opposing sides. Widmore as first leader of the Others and Ben conning him off the island is a pretty significant reveal though. I'm glad duplicitous sinister Ben is back, as opposed to "hey we're all friends now" Ben.

I'm kind of done with them filling in off-island gaps but I suppose there are more to come. Got a feeling that at some point between Locke's death and "we have to go back", the ghost of Christian is gonna appear to Jack and that's what finally convinces him. After all, Hurley's been seeing dead island people for ages.

request for animated "FAIL" gif with frames for each person who turns Locke's plea to go back to the island down.

That reminds me, I wanted to smack Kate for being so smug and superior when Locke asked her to go back to the island.

She got people killed so that she could get a toy fucking airplane! So her being so snide and judgemental towards Locke was a bit much.

yeah exactly and "have you ever been in love" coming from island-ho who flits between jack and sawyer every half season.

I still can't work out the Ben thing but my gut feeling was that he always intended to kill John but was just hitting him up for info first. I don't think it was a case of any specific bit of info changing his mind and causing him to murder Locke.

Or perhaps once he heard about Hawking and Jin he decided he didn't need John.

What is weird tho is why after killing John he wants to bring his coffin to the island etc. I mean that makes no fucking sense whatsoever at this point.

i think if Ben was gonna kill Locke (again) he would've just brought a gun with him and not improv'd with the cable tho. really did seem like a spot decision made entirely on Locke confirming awareness/existence of Eloise (if not also Jin).

no ben killed locke because he said he wouldnt bring sun back - ben needs for them all to come back

Maybe the island didn't want Locke to commit suicide. I mean, Jesus didn't.

Kate was such an unjustified smug married in that scene. At least Jack had the courtesy to lay into him and call him a sad old loser. I'm sort of starting to hate Kate now.

kate was def being insufferable but what she was talking abt was aaron thats who she had to love and why she couldnt go back - then aaron is suddenly gone and shes on the next plane

btw i luv the loser aspect of lockes character - has great tension w/his messiah trip

So this episode gave us confirmation that--as we suspected all along--some of the people on 815 had been manipulated into being on there so that they'd end up on the island. Now that we know that Miss Hawking can predict which flights will cross paths with the island (even though, um, 815 was way off course) we can be pretty sure that certain people knew it would crash on the island. If Widmore sent Abbadon to get Locke on the plane, then it's likely that someone (maybe not Widmore) also wanted Claire and some of the others on that particular plane. And obviously Widmore also engineered Des's arrival as well.

I definitely got the impression that Ben hadn't intended to kill Locke - when Locke mentions Eloise the way Ben says ".... are you sure?" sounds like he had to make a quick decision that killing him was necessary. Also, surely if he had intended to kill him at any time before that moment he would have just yanked the cable instead of helping him untie it? It also sounded like he was just humouring John about not bringing Sun back - like Ben would just do it in a nasty way anyway.
Brilliant bit of the episode though; and still has got me a-puzzlin'.

to do all that he must've known enough info in advance tho - still leaving too much to chance otherwise (given that 815 crashed directly thru Desmond actions which couldn't really be controlled) xp

xxp to cutty's talk of lists - Hey well will you look at that? Jin just found Jack, Hurley and Kate, Sawyer presumably in the Dharma Initiative, and those are the people who get put on the "list" at the end of season 2. It sounds like Sun (and Lapidus) have a boat, hopefully Sayid will get to them and somehow Jin will get there and we'll have all the players in the same place now.

I wonder if that means that Lapidus et all were the shooters in the other canoe - but I guess there were three, were there? Did the "survivors" of the second crash take the canoes to the main island? Oh, confusing confusing.