stephen king c/d?

I know we've (I've) gone into this already, but I've never read "The Stand" and started reading it today, and already, just 45 or so out of, what, 1100 pages, I think three or four different characters have casually used the N-word. What the fuck, Stephen King? And I haven't even come close to gettung to the character for whom being a big racist is actually a character trait!

I'm reading the long version, I believe. It's interesting that King changed the setting from 1980 to 1990, and altered a few other things to suit the new timeline.

SK always used to have (still has?) lotsa irredeemable racists in his books to use as monster-fodder.

It's funny, that updated timeline: It was changed to 1985 for an early '80s printing, with very little else changed, so it was kinda funny to read Larry Underwood's mom make a disco-disparaging remark. (I see it was changed to an anti-rap comment in '90, nice touch.)

I didn't like Under The Dome but the mini-series is worse.

These racist characters aren't the bad guy sort, though, at least not all, not yet. Like Larry's mom, who drops an n bomb in her first scene. Is she evil? Just casually racist it seems, for no good reason.

Yeah I forgot about her, I guess King just figures "hm,older-generation working class New Yorker? Racist. Small-town Texans? Racist" I'm pretty sure this was discussed upthread - King being the kind of boomer leftie who sees racist everywhere y/n?

if you look upthread pretty much the same discussion happened when you read 11/22/63, Josh :)

not that it's not valid conversation, just needed to address the general deja-vu

in the Stand, is it related to 2/3 being written in the 70s and the rest in the late 80s?

I totally conceded we went over this before. When I said we went over this before. ;)

It's just so weird to me. I wish he were better, when needed, at depicting racism and writing about racism rather than just taking this shortcut.

For the record, I've read exactly one King book in the past 25+ years, the aforementioned. Reading "The Stand" is an impulsive move propelled by curiosity and a like of apocalypse fiction.

I dunno how they stack up casual-racism-wise but you should try his short story collections.

I personally think that's where he shines. His flaw with this novels, at least in my opinion is creating a whole set of characters/locations that are written vividly enough that you at least buy into them and their world... and then not knowing how to end anything ever.

That being said I have enjoyed a good portion of his novels

But Skeleton Crew, Night Shift, even Four Past Midnight --- pretty badass imo

the big problem I had with the stand was a best selling musician named Larry Underwood

*was named

Hey it was the 70s.

I read all his short story collections when I was a kid and loved them. Very economical, ironically, given how long and rambling his books often are.

yeah, exactly

I was given the Everything's Eventual collection for my birthday last year and sucked it down like Coca-Cola, tempted to get involved with the other short stories now too.

I know it's super trashy but I'm *really* enjoying Under the Dome.

The show that is.

Baby, can you dig your man? He's a righteous man.

I like the weird time era inconsistency in the extended version of the Stand. It's basically a distilled version of the entire 1980s. Kind of adds to the eerieness of the first few hundred pages.

I recently re-read The Stand, and realized I really dislike the updating of the book's timeframe. It tends to make a lot of the characters speak REALLY anachronistically and sound like senior-citizen hippies instead of young or middle-aged people. Like George Carlin still doing the Hippy Dippy Weatherman at age 75 or something. (The most record-scratchiest moments for me are changing all the Nixon references to George H.W. Bush. They just don't make sense.)

All of this books characters and concerns are clearly products of the late 1970s and should have stayed that way.

I agree. Reading this for the first time ever, it's totally weird. Dates and references, even changed, just don't add up. And (sorry) when the old mom drops the n-word and then a few graphs down expresses a distaste for rap music (instead of the original disco) it just amplifies the casual racism.

His flaw with this novels

I think the problem with his novels can be summed up thus: "The Stand" was originally published minus 400 pages/150,000 words, and no one noticed. Or, for that matter, thought it was too short. Was there a single review of this bestseller in its prime, say the first 15 years or so of its popular existence, that said "hmm, it's like it's missing 400 pages ..." ?

I really like the longer version. It works for the precise reasons it shouldn't work at all. It's singular in part because of the flaws, not in spite of them. Like Tusk! I'm not even a King fanboy, I just really loved The Stand.

Yeah, the book's not bad yet.

And "Tusk" has no flaws, you hooligan.

Folks, I have bad news about Doctor Sleep. I can't really say much more than that for a while. But yeah.

I had no idea so much of The Stand was updated. That's such a stupid idea.

after reading King's recent EW interview and being reminded how much he hates the Kubrick version of The Shining, I'm not expecting much from Doctor Sleep

"The Kid" was a very minor character in the original "Stand" who pretty much could have stayed on the editing floor imo. His increased presence in the long version didn't really add anything for me.

Can't believe a discussion of racism in Stephen king keeps centering on the cartoon redneck characters rather than the constantly cringeworthy stereotypical black characters. I mean I can think of three books offhand that *literally* have "magical negroes"! And I'd be... curious to hear the audiobooks of some of his novels, especially if the reader is a white person.

Can't believe a discussion of racism in Stephen king keeps centering on the cartoon redneck characters rather than the constantly cringeworthy stereotypical black characters. I mean I can think of three books offhand that *literally* have "magical negroes"!

ya rly

Stephen King, in his Creepshow 2 cameo, rubbernecking a brutal hit-and-run: "Looks like a black guy, huh?"

And I'd be... curious to hear the audiobooks of some of his novels, especially if the reader is a white person.

King's own audiobook interpretation of Detta Walker from Drawing of the Three is just as bad as the text would lead you to believe.

Oh god

You have just reminded me, I once had a tape of king reading some short stories, one of them was about a spy getting tortured in some murky spictatorship and king kept doing this hideously racist caricature of the torturer: "meestar fletchar!"

I was laughing too much to be too offended tbh

http://books.google.com/books?id=okDuRoND2qkC&q=graymeat

this sort of stuff.

"The Kid" was a very minor character in the original "Stand" who pretty much could have stayed on the editing floor imo. His increased presence in the long version didn't really add anything for me.

You're crazy, the long trashman/kid sequence is THE redeeming quality of the extended Stand!

You better (not) believe that happy crappy. I tell you, you don't tell me.

It didn't help that I envisioned The Kid as that Elvis-y looking kid in the Luann comic strip, but yeah that happy crappy crap wore on my nerves. I always picture coked-out King wildly retyping his catch-phrases in that book. M-O-O-N, that spells Tom Cullen, Laws. yes!

Ah yes the magical simpleton, another king staple!

I needed a new display name so

Trashcan Man's entire life and character make no sense at all in the updated timeline. He's supposed to be, what, early 20s in the book? So born in the late 60s? And yet is harassed as a teen by hoodlum classmates right out of the 50s? And travels to Las Vegas singing "Ci-a-bola!" to the tune of a Tower of Power song that was a minor hit in 1972?

Also, one of Stu Redman's pals in Texas needs to be about 15 years older than he is, as I believe he makes a reference to having served in Korea.

And I don't like the changed opening. I always liked the feel of opening with the peaceful East Texas night disrupted by this threat that arrives out of nowhere. Opening the book with Campion escaping from the base with his wife and child removes the power of that.

This is one of my favorite books, and now you've all got me hating it.

Totally agree on the power of the original intro. The changed intro doesn't work nearly as well for me.

Still one of my favorite books, still prefer the o.g. original.

Bump-de-bump-de-bump!

I mean, it's amazing how much I love many of his books, considering some of his huge drawbacks discussed above: the staple, one-dimensional characterizations, the racism, the overwriting, the lack of plausible endings... he sure can write a page-turner in spite of all that.

He excels at creepy set-pieces, which is one reason why his short stories are so much more effective.

Even his worst work contains some horrifyingly memorable imagery (the transformation of the townspeople in The Tommyknockers... brrr)

To what extent does he sell 'in spite of' vs 'because of' tho

to some extent

hth

Definitely the characterisation is a selling point: his stock types are "colourful" and he has enough insight to flesh them out and make them seem real. Unless they are non-white, or female. Alien clowns otoh

Let's not forget the bonus ending to The Stand special edition, which I've seen attacked as racist more than once.

I'm not remembering that; will investigate.

Tommyknockers was pretty much where I got off the boat with King, chronologically. I didn't hate it, but also felt I'd read too much similar stuff by him before. Can barely recall it now, but I do remember it having some effective bits.

So if my favorites are Stand/It/Shining, roughly in that order (and a huge soft spot for Christine) is there anything 1990 onwards I should check out?