2008 Primaries Thread

basically every politician wants things to be racialized when its good for them and non-racialized when itll be bad for them

and here goes bill clinton, making things racialized exactly when it's bad for his wife!!

max, I hope not, but I don't think that's what Brazile meant.

I think her point was mostly that people are smart enough to know when they're being cynically pandered to and politicians do that at their peril.

yeah, Obama's discourse about race is more people are complicated, rather than race doesn't matter.

what brilliant legerdemain

xpost

are you fucking kidding?

he tried to make the SC campaign about race so white voters would abandon obama, it backfired, and now he's crying foul and saying it doesnt matter

Tracer, not brilliant, just fucking predictable and old as the hills.

so, basically, exactly what i just said

haha ok sure

'hey maybe i can use some of this "racism" to get white people to vote for my wife instead of the black guy.... oh no, it's getting out of hand!'

guys just fyi obama went to my school before he transferred to columbia and helped initiate a set of college policies that led to us being (at least numerically) one of the most racially diverse lib arts schools in the country

xpost isn't that what your analysis suggests??

max what's your school?

well yeah tracer... actually the more i think about it the more it seems like the michael richards thing to me, this indignant 'how can you DO this, i'm WHITE!' appeal met with unexpected shock & disgust and then backpedaled away from

i mean what was the point of hillary's lbj/mlk comparison if not to say 'blacks talk pretty but whites get things done'

0cc1dental college in los angeles

his "mentor" was one of my least favorite politics profs tho

which was an unfortunate truth in 1964 but is not in 2007

toni morrisson endorsed obama!

i think you're attributing way more to these comments than they merit

how uncharacteristically relevant of her

ah, the save-a-racist's cry against analysis

'i dont know what the big deal is, it's just a word!'

trent lott just meant that strom thurmond would've enacted firm republican policies

please

by the way, william kristol agrees with you guys and is eager to write about it -

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/28/opinion/28kristol.html

my question for you: who benefits from this endless tea-leaf reading about bill clinton's secret vile racist soul?

millions of voters who actually have sense

kristol was a rumsfeld basher too - i guess i should start liking rumsfeld since bill kristol doesnt!

Tracer, if Obama gets the nomination, when the general election rolls around, there's going to be plenty of Republican racebaiting. it's always good to point it out for the bullshit it is, whoever's doing it.

hahaha who benefits from this tea-leaf reading of the KKK's publications??

tracer i really cant believe you're arguing this in the language of every clueless troll over the many years we've both been on ilx - guess what, words have meaning, seemingly innocuous language can be a code, white moderates from arkansas can make racist appeals, and to pretend that we're all just overanalyzing this poor white man's words is completely disingenous

really i've been trying to remain civil with clinton supporters but ever since this racist / 'how could we possibly be racist!' shit came down from on high all it's made me want to do is say fuck em

the fact that anyone thinks Bill Clinton just says shit without thinking is hilarious

tracer here's what you said on the don imus thread:

all these other big media names going "hem haw, it wuz bad but i know he's not a racist" - alec baldwin, mike lupica being two that i've read today - remind me a lot of the nick sylvester thing, where it was instantly clear who considered themselves personal friends and who didn't have that stake in it.

-- Tracer Hand, Friday, April 13, 2007 6:30 AM (9 months ago) Bookmark Link

can you understand how some of us feel you're doing the same thing with regards to the clintons?

From NBC's Ken Strickland
Sen. Ted Kennedy said he will "offer my help, my voice, my energy and my commitment to make Barack Obama the next president of the United States," according to remarks prepared for delivery today. And in not-so-subtle pushes against the claims of Obama's biggest rival, he'll says, "I know that he's ready to be president on Day One."

Kennedy acknowledges the "work and dedication" of Hillary Clinton and John Edwards, calling them his friends. "But I believe there is one candidate who has extraordinary gifts of leadership and character, matched to the extraordinary demands of this moment in history. He understands what Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. called the 'fierce urgency of now.'"

The Massachusetts Senator then directly responds to rivals' criticisms, calling on the crowd to "reject the counsels of doubt and calculation." While Kennedy doesn't specifically name Senator Clinton, his target seem obvious. "We know the true record of Barack Obama," Kennedy will say of Obama's war stance. There is the courage he showed when so many others were silent or simply went along. From the beginning, he opposed the war in Iraq. And let no one deny that truth." Kennedy voted against the initial war authorization.)

On who's really the "change" candidate, Kennedy will say: "Barack Obama is the one person running for President who can bring us that change. Barack Obama is the one person running for president who can be that change."

And toward the end of the speech, Kennedy connects Obama to his brother, JFK. "There was another time, when another young candidate was running for president and challenging America to cross a New Frontier." Kennedy says JFK also faced criticism from Democrats about his lack of experience.

"Harry Truman said we needed 'someone with greater experience' -- and added: 'May I urge you to be patient,'" Kennedy will say. "And John Kennedy replied: 'The world is changing. The old ways will not do... It is time for a new generation of leadership.' So it is with Barack Obama."

ok i just watched the tape again and i'll concede that bill was in all likelihood trying to downplay obama's victory in SC by suggesting that hillary didn't stand a chance there in part because of all those black voters. (which, when you look at the results and at the trend of black support both nationwide and in SC, is pretty incontestable.) and then it's like he INSTANTLY realizes this is a stupid thing to say because he instantly says jesse ran a good campaign and obama's run a good campaign -- he's trying to give them credit, rather than saying they're lucky. but he has already stuck his foot in it. again, for the record, i don't think this is a very controversial thing to say. i do think it is a stupid thing to say. but i don't think he was trying to send a "coded message" to white america in some informal gravel driveway interview with a hostile, smart-aleck reporter. sorry i just don't! i can see why you guys could think that, though. he leaves way too much open for interpretation.

xpost

Around Bill's entourage it's called "dropping the J-bomb."

THOSE REPORTERS, THEY ARE JUST SO UNCOUTH, WHO ARE THEY TO ADDRESS A FORMER PRESIDENT IN ANYTHING LOUDER THAN A REVERENTIAL WHISPER????

I look forward to seeing Dubya on late-night talk shows in 4 years

anywhere but in the white house

and what, find me a tape of clinton saying nappy-headed hoes or the n-word or that strom thurmond would have made a good president and we can draw those kinds of comparisons - you're right, i don't give imus or richards the benefit of the doubt, but hey maybe they've written lengthy chapters about their involvement in grassroots civil rights organizing like bill has

as long as he's back drinking

xxpost

tracer this isnt (necessarily) about whether or not clinton is RACIST (the answer to which comes down to "depends on how you define racism" for most white people, i think), but whether or not he was RACE-BAITING

Guys guys guys: Thursday's debate. HIGHEST STAKES YET. What can we expect?

what about sending a postcard to his mom with a picture of a darkie trying to eat the 'world's largest watermelon'?

wait waht

btw here's obama's response to the jesse jackson thing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmE1VWUlOD0

max i am aware of that - i have no opinion on whether or not anyone "is" racist, just whether or not they say or do racist things, and to my mind what bill said and did wasn't meant to inflame or divide - but again, i can see how people could interpret it that way.

(see how conciliatory i'm being, even though i think you are all TOTALLY WRONG and are buying into a GINNED UP controversy that BENEFITS REPUBLICANS?)