HBO adaptation of Game of Thrones - will this be just for nerds? (NO SPOILERS PLEASE)

i don't remember how clear they made it in the show but tyrion is basically the only person in king's landing who takes an interest in the night's watch, being the only one who's actually visited it (at the start of book/season 1)

Yeah, basically. Just a thoughtful bloke I suppose. Though I find it kinda surprising that the Spider doesn't take any interest in their affairs, given that he seems to have a finger in every pie going.

Obviously the Watch doesn't hold any political cachet whatsoever, which explains why, say, Littlefinger, is not at all arsed, but I'd kind of expect Varys to at least stay up on what was going on there. Or does he mention it and I'm forgetting? Been too long.

Yeah, diegetically, the connection between magic and dragons isn't explicit, save possibly for some whacko corners of scholars, and the insistence on the characters' necessary understanding of the connecton kind of isn't logical within the world. As you say, Josh, the dragons are how we view dinosaurs, nevermind the details of fire breathing. (Pterosaurs flew, btw. Did their flight involve magic?)

i think max understands westeros better than GRRM at this point

xpost I used to have a co-worker who would show me pictures of Padre Pio's hands and invite me to deny this was evidence of a stigmatic miracle. Not very far removed. And of course I could not deny it was evidence of a stigmatic miracle (any more than she could prove it was proof of one).

Well, there is the distinction that people and Dragons coexisted and Game of Thrones, and humans and dinosaurs in our world did not. But I'm willing to buy their dragons as our dinosaurs, and their myth become reality the equivalent of us reading something in the Bible that comes literally true. Again, I'm coming at this from the direction of having no idea where this is going. For all I know, once the White Walkers and dragons and magic are confirmed, everything might change.

As to the main point, history is replete with rulers who see no further than their own need to perpetuate their own rule and fail to notice far bigger issues …

Have the White Walkers been assigned a motive yet?

And does the general population really have no idea that the dragon queen not only has three baby dragons but also an army of thousands marching on the throne? I guess I need to be schooled on how far apart all these battles and skirmishes and wars are.

Have the Giants been north of the wall the whole time, or are they newly returned too?

north

dany is on a different continent and not even the part of it that's nearest to westeros. news travels slow, since its only word of mouth really.

the dragon queen doesn't have an army of thousands marching on the throne tho - she has an army of thousands on a different continent entirely, on the far side of a huge desert, and she's not yet made any sort of convincing move towards westeros.

also i doubt the gen pop care either way? the whole continent in which they live is in a state of war - their concerns are more likely to be centred on not dying, maybe making some money, and ideally putting aside enough stocks for the long winter while somehow avoiding their requisition by passing soldiers.

it'd be like a frenchman in 1200 anticipating the mongol conquests

But the dragon queen is not so far away that they did not try to assassinate her, right? The King? He knew she was there, just like the Lannister guy knows she has Dragons.

but the king is not the general population?

But that's the King, most of the general population are illiterate peasants, how would they know/care any of this was going on?

He knew, but the news was pretty delayed because of the messenger's travel, and also his getting the news depended on his having a spy present and in a position to hire and meet with messengers to send the msgs. That was before Ser Jorah stopped spying for Robert, iirc?

Maybe that's what's confused me. Because the previous king knew she was alive and a threat, when she was farther away. Now she is closer (right?) with more soldiers, and dragons, and the higher-ups and King's Lading know about her and them. So they must have spies way out in wherever the fuck she is right now. I understand they've been distracted by the northerners, but they all seem rather blase about the birth-heir to the throne marching their way with an army and dragons. Especially given the previous King was pretty bothered by it. But the capricious, self-interested aspect of the Lannisters is their defining trait, I suppose.

Also the previous king didn't have a big clusterfuck civil war to contend with.

There's a lot in this show of people ignoring voices of reason, because voices of reason get beheaded.

I totally get it, and get the show, but it plays out like misplaced priorities. But I guess misplaced priorities have been the death of many a civilization.

None of this seems at all complicated to understand to me.

It's not complicated at all! Ironically, that's what's throwing me off. Like, if magic were introduced, let alone re-introduced, to my boring world, it would blow my mind and change the way I thought about life. But I guess the magic stuff is still on the down-low here, and eventually people will get their apocalyptic panic on.

Like, the guy who sees the witch birth a demon ghost vagina assassin? He's still very distrustful of her, but I think if I had seen that I'd not only be slightly wary of crossing her but probably get on board with her agenda.

You're thrown off by not being thrown off?

Magic hasn't been re-introduced to the worlds of most of the major characters in the story. The only major characters who have seen magic are in the far east, the far north, or the handful of people who saw the shadow baby.

I mean I grant you that it's a little odd that Brienne isn't like "so btw Jamie I saw a shadowbaby and it killed Renly"

xxxp no one other than king robert considered dany a threat prior to the dragons, robert was in love w/ ned's sister who got captured by dany's older brother and got killed, so he had personal/emotional reasons for going after the exiled targ kids even though they weren't threats at the time

Like, the guy who sees the witch birth a demon ghost vagina assassin? He's still very distrustful of her, but I think if I had seen that I'd not only be slightly wary of crossing her but probably get on board with her agenda.

Hmm maybe I am a bit judgmental but I don't want to be on team witch shadowbaby ghost assassin.

Nor would I! But I might change my mind were things like that to actually, you know, exist.

People can believe in stuff and still be against it. Just because these gods are proven to exist doesn't mean that everybody suddenly starts worshiping them. People might think that the interests of the gods do not align with their own, especially if the gods like human sacrifices.

I like max's post office analogy

How is the demon ghost vagina assassin visually described in the book? Like was everyone picturing:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly0hjeza891qc88cb.jpg

when they read the book?

It's literally described as a shadow in the book.

It's a shadow that looks like Stannis, not like a baby.

It's a lot more surreal and creepy in the book but "inky cloud monster" was probably to easier to pull off visually.

xpost No, Daenyrs is much further east now. She used to be in one of the west coast cities, Portland maybe. She went east with the the Dothrakhi (to Topeka). And now she's gone further south and east. Like she's in Tampa now, perhaps.

Where is King's Landing? Spain? England?

I loved how everyone was all "I don't know what I saw that night," but we're all like, yeah you do, it was an inky cloud monster. Where's the confusion?

King's Landing is in Mumbai, basically

I loved how everyone was all "I don't know what I saw that night," but we're all like, yeah you do, it was an inky cloud monster. Where's the confusion?

If only the characters could hear the narrator!

But they were in the room with it when it happened! The other guy saw it birthed!

At least no one is looking at the dragons and muttering "I don't know what I saw."

I think there's just a comical lack of communication in Westeros.

"Why didn't you tell me you saw a ghost vagina demon assassin baby?!??!"

"You never asked!"

Onscreen they have to show it as a shadowy thing that you're supposed to be paying attention to, because there's no way to replicate the sensation of something that flickers in the corner of your eye but is hard to see when you look right at it, or whatever mystical invisibility qualities you can think of.

Dragons are a major part of the spoken history of Westeros and shadow babies aren't. It's a thing that's been done once or maybe twice (maybe during Robert's Rebellion? I think?). Dragons flew around in the sky and rained fire on cities. A little easier to become a part of the universal consciousness.

And yet the dragons are still mostly a curiosity when encountered, even though these little dudes can still do some damage

I grant you that people should be like "holy shit I saw a dragon" but we are also not privy to every utterance or thought of any of these characters.

Dany's dragons are also still pretty small (all things considered; none of them are the size of the skulls piled up at King's Landing) and everyone's last memory of dragons as a going concern was as sickly housepets, so it's not too shocking/unexpected that many people who encounter Dany's would assume they aren't as powerful as they are

The dragons have only killed one dude in a public setting so far so it makes sense that until now they were just a curiosity to those who haven't read their history (aka almost everyone in Essos), but anyone who knows what a fully grown dragon is capable of either covets them or fears them.

Who you gonna call?

http://www.virtual-history.com/movie/photo/07/large/07415.jpg

But they were in the room with it when it happened!

have you never in your life doubted your own senses? doubted someone else's? even living in a time when magic was thought possible i reckon people would find your protestations of "a ghost came in and did it, i saw him" pretty weak.