yes, but do either of those events mean you know she lied in the first place? not knowing one way or another means NOT KNOWING ONE WAY OR ANOTHER
― goole, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:27 (eleven years ago) link
I believe in life after love
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:28 (eleven years ago) link
I believe..that love is the answer
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:28 (eleven years ago) link
i know she lied in the first place or the second place. it had to be one.
― Mordy, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:28 (eleven years ago) link
worst segment of npr's "this i believe" EVER
― fueled by satanism, violence, and sodomy (elmo argonaut), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:28 (eleven years ago) link
nobody cares about what kind of person you are. i'm not a good person, i just get fucking mad when people start authoritatively posting at length about how some woman is clearly lying about what her boyfriend did to her in private like they know shit about dick like am i at a rape trial or some shit?
xxxxxxxxp
― horseshoe, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:28 (eleven years ago) link
except no one did that. to say someone did it to make shit up just so you can denounce it.
― Mordy, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:29 (eleven years ago) link
is to*
she's not here. i would try to pin her down to some reality principle if she were (or probably would just let the whole thing go, tbh, unless some part of my life were at stake). but since it's just people figuring out things via a miasma of highly mediated evidence, well...
― goole, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBFrYGCU460
― Gollum: "Hot, Ready and Smeagol!" (Phil D.), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
when the backwards B carving woman claimed someone attacked her, was it insensitive to point out that it might not be true? maybe. idk, i guess i'm not worried about appearing insensitive on ilx. i try to be sensitive irl to real ppl. not on a thread called Literary Clusterfucks 2013 in front of ilx posters.
― Mordy, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
listen, Mordy, let's just posit that she's a liar and her boyfriend abused her, okay? just as an experiment. the experience of abuse makes you doubt your own judgment of reality. that's just another way to explain conflicting accounts.
― horseshoe, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
i think that could certainly be true!
― Mordy, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:32 (eleven years ago) link
i think what you would say about doubting backwards B carving woman is that certain ilxors' race pieties trump their gender pieties in that instance. it seems like an exhausting perspective on the world tbh.
xp okay i guess i should just reread your posts that made me so mad last night but i think i probably will not
― horseshoe, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:33 (eleven years ago) link
the worst case, in my view, might be what's happening: it's possible that the cowboy was an abusive rapist, but valdes really does now believe all that crap about women being happier submitting to a real man, despite that.
but in general i don't like filling in with speculation what nobody has yet found out by asking.
― goole, Thursday, January 10, 2013 3:10 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― goole, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:33 (eleven years ago) link
"a seeming ignorance of how that kind of abuse typically affects victims" is key
except most victims of that kind of abuse do not go out and write a book length love letter to their abuser, sell it for a $400,000 advance, decide that their relationship was actually horrific, post that conclusion to their blog, retract it, then go out on a book tour and sell that book as an honest depiction of how awful feminism is and how wonderful abusive relationships are, after all.
this adds a few untypical features to the same old story.
― Aimless, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
theres a piece coming out in a little bit on a nick denton website that more or less confirms the worst case
― max, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
well that's because most abuse victims aren't fairly high-profile authors
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
from p much the beginning this thread has followed the typical pattern when a woman makes an allegation of abuse or rape, which is that the discourse focuses around her personally instead of on her claims or anyone else involved (like e.g. the accused). even if no one itt has specifically said that she is "clearly lying about what her boyfriend did to her in private" the fact is that it, you know, looks just a lil bit bad when all anyone is talking about in the context of her abuse allegations is whether or not she is crazy or whether or not she lied in unrelated incidents in the past
lots of xps i guess
― 1staethyr, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
max i don't read lifehacker
― goole, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:35 (eleven years ago) link
theres a piece coming out in a little bit on a nick cannon website that more or less confirms that this thread has talent
― Sufjan Grafton, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:36 (eleven years ago) link
i'm perfectly willing to believe that cowboy abused her. he seems skeevy from the youtube clip i saw of him. it certainly wouldn't surprise me. but if he did, i think she has a responsibility to disavow the book that is, according to her, a primer about and love letter to falling in love with a manipulative abusive man. that's all i've ever believed.
― Mordy, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:36 (eleven years ago) link
even if no one itt has specifically said that she is "clearly lying about what her boyfriend did to her in private"
p. sure no one here thinks this, actually
― mookieproof, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:37 (eleven years ago) link
well horseshoe, mordy's explained that this woman is responsible for perpetuating abuse, i mean she's RESPONSIBLE for it, do you see. if someone reads her book and then ends up in an abusive relationship, well then it's the fault of the author for not adequately warning her. i mean, abusers are gonna be abusive, that's just HOW THEY ARE, how could we ever hold THEM to account?
in short, mordy, you're taking the long way around to blame the victim and it's super weird and gross.
― fueled by satanism, violence, and sodomy (elmo argonaut), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:38 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, that's bullshit elmo
― Mordy, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:39 (eleven years ago) link
oh okay, that was what made me mad. people talking about what her responsibility is.
― horseshoe, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:39 (eleven years ago) link
yeah the reliance on responsibility in Mordy's account is worth digging into but idk what to think about that yet
xps!
― goole, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:40 (eleven years ago) link
then we're on totally different wave-lengths. i don't see why she doesn't have a responsibility for the literature she writes.
― Mordy, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:40 (eleven years ago) link
― Mordy, Friday, January 11, 2013 4:39 PM (49 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
http://hiphopwired.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/sad-elmo.jpg
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:41 (eleven years ago) link
seems like a sad story. would prefer to see it as a postmodern stunt about utter futility of sex and romance.
― ryan, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:41 (eleven years ago) link
it would be one thing if i said she deserved to be abused or that she was asking for it or that she was in some other way to blame for the abuse, but that's obviously not what i'm suggesting and i would never say or think that
― Mordy, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:42 (eleven years ago) link
holding her to some kind of standard of integrity when she's clearly not really in control of a whole lot right now is weird to me. Like I understand that those principles might be important to you personally but to decry her whole situation because she doesn't adhere to some predetermined notion of How She Should Behave In This Situation is, well...I get it, but I don't get it and I don't get trying to be all DO U SEE when the 'evidence' is so murky that no one knows WHAT the fuck her real story is and that's the whole point of this thread!!
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:43 (eleven years ago) link
ugh
ppl aren't acting at all times w/in a vacuum where they have absolute agency, or like, "shit is complicated sometimes" idk
― 1staethyr, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:43 (eleven years ago) link
you just had your psyche and body violated for years by a man who felt like he owned you! here's what you should be doing about that experience! substitute my judgment for your own!
― horseshoe, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
like i am pretty sure i hate woman-penned anti-feminist tracts more than all the next guys but can we not proclaim loudly and authoritatively what people should do after such things on a rihanna-is-so-irresponsible-think-of-the-young-girls tip? let's keep an eye on who's really responsible, you know?
― horseshoe, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:45 (eleven years ago) link
TERMINATOR Why?
JOHN Whattaya mean, why? 'Cause you can't!
JOHN You just can't, okay? Trust me on this.
Terminator doesn't get it.
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:45 (eleven years ago) link
<3
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:46 (eleven years ago) link
Abuse is not an excuse for perpetuating abuse, which is what pushing this book on her audience is doing.
― Mordy, Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:45 PM (Yesterday)
― fueled by satanism, violence, and sodomy (elmo argonaut), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:46 (eleven years ago) link
it's okay to just be generally grossed out by the entire situation though right?
― maura, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:46 (eleven years ago) link
ha i'd never really considered that exchange from T2. pretty profound, tbh
― goole, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
xpost yep, that's kinda why I'm here
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
I think everyone is generally grossed out by the entire situation
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
How does her book compare to "getting back together with chris brown" on the responsibility scale? It seems that some posters think it's ok to criticize rihanna for her situation but not Valdez for hers?
― Sufjan Grafton, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
not if one of the ppl you're grossed out at is valdes apparently
― Mordy, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i mean, i stopped reading the thread early on, i think a bunch of stuff about how this lady is unappealing was eventually posted, which i have no trouble believing. fuck a bunch of things that people dub "post-feminist" i was just mad at all the long-ass this probably never happened also she's doing abuse survival wrong shit.
xxxxp to maura
― horseshoe, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:50 (eleven years ago) link
I'm with mordy, who knows how many books-a-million customers alisa valdes is raping right now, why doesn't anyone care
― son of telegram sam (Edward III), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:50 (eleven years ago) link
so if this author was abused, then publicly disclosed it, then recanted that disclosure, then she's responsible for perpetuating abuse, according to you're logic. qed?
i mean, if that's not "blaming the victim" then i'm not sure what you'd call it
― fueled by satanism, violence, and sodomy (elmo argonaut), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:51 (eleven years ago) link
your. ugh.
I used the word "gross" A LOT OF TIMES up-thread, above the fold. The grossness of a lot of the general situation doesn't preclude a less blamey and insistent take on...well, anything, though.
― grossly incorrect register (in orbit), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:51 (eleven years ago) link