"I Hope You're Happy Now, Jacob"--The LOST Season 5 Thread

Yeah, I got a definite WWII vibe from those guys.

If Locke as a child correctly chooses the compass as something he already owns - why does Alpert pretend like he made the wrong choice?

2. What was the significance of Charlotte's nose bleed, which scared Faraday quite a bit?

iirc, Desmond was having the same problems up until he and Faraday became each other's constant.

1. How do we know pendulum lady is Faraday's mother?
I don't actually think she is, unless Ben teleported to Oxford after he left Jack's company. (Faraday said his mother was at Oxford.)

2. What was the significance of Charlotte's nose bleed, which scared Faraday quite a bit?
See season 4 episode The Constant. Nosebleeds + time travel = yr gonna die soon.

3. Why did Sun call Kate? Why did she want to meet up?
Well they have a bond obv. because of the island. It seems that Sun has gone kind of sinister and just sorta wanted to make Kate feel guilty, as well.

4. Who's butcher Jill and what's her connection with Ben?
My guess here is that, remember at the end of season three Mikhail told the two girls in the underwater station Ben had said they were off doing research in Canada? I think the Others had lots of people spread out in the "real world" doing whatever business it is they do and now THOSE people can't return to the island either, so Ben and Hawking (pendulum lady) are coordinating their efforts to return. Jill's just one of these people.

Yeah it means Charlotte is unstuck in time (I mean even more than the others, S4 style) - maybe we get a Charlotte episode that uses that to illuminate her childhood on the island, with the constant at the end of it.

(Actually with that in mind neither Dan nor Miles need oldskool flashbacks either because Dan is all over the place in time and who knows what Miles's deal is...)

If Locke as a child correctly chooses the compass as something he already owns - why does Alpert pretend like he made the wrong choice?

yeah this is what I was wondering. is it possible Alpert knew he made the right choice but had to abandon John beacuse of this? For some reason we don't know yet?

Thanks Clay, Johnny and Matt DC!

If however the math is Nosebleeds + time travel = dying soon, she should get offed real soon wouldn't she?

3. Why did Sun call Kate? Why did she want to meet up?
Well they have a bond obv. because of the island. It seems that Sun has gone kind of sinister and just sorta wanted to make Kate feel guilty, as well.

I can see that, but would Sun fly all the way over to LA just to make Kate feel guilty? Isn't there any other purpose to her trip? Or am I missing something again?
[Lost can really make me doubt my memory, 's wha it does]

perhaps it's business related? I'm not sure they established it directly. The point is just to throw the Oceanic Six together so they can be easily rounded up, maybe they just assumed nobody would ask why? I'd just go with business related and forget about that plot hole.

Maybe Locke under the plane gets the compass 'before' kid Locke? Dunno, something weird going on there - also the way Ben dodged the question about the worst thing that could happen to Coffin Locke. I can't see them killing Locke off for good with a whole season left to go - there's no way he's ACTUALLY dead. Why hump him around in a coffin for god knows how long otherwise?

(xposts)

After tonight I'm really hoping we'll see Mr. Eko 'alive' again as well!

I thought kid Locke chose the knife, not the compass, and now we know that Alpert was upset that Locke didn't choose the compass as a child.

oh, oops, I guess he took the knife AND the compass?

The fact that the flashback structure seems to be gone makes me hopeful that some of the more annoying plot threads (Kate & Aaron for instance) won't have entire episodes devoted to them. In past seasons the Hurley episode last night would have had a boring flashback where Hugo was forced to make a difficult decision, which would have illuminated his rejection of Ben at the episode's end.

xp iirc, locke first chose the compass, and then the bottle of sand which made alpert pleased but then finally picked the knife as being the definitive item - that upset alpert.

3. Why did Sun call Kate? Why did she want to meet up?

sun's working with widmore now right? maybe she's trying to stop kate (and anybody else) from meeting up with ben? i got the impression it was one big race between widmore and ben to get back to the island, so maybe she figured out ben's plan already and is trying to stop it.

btw, I think sun's always been an interesting character who's been underused before this - her flashbacks tend to show her with a seemingly natural inclination towards deception and self-preservation (the episode with sun as a child framing the maid, constantly doing things behind jin's back, threatening the lady who was blackmailing her about jin's past) - i don't see why she wouldn't be convincing as someone who can be completely ruthless once given enough resources.

My theory is that the WWII/Widmore soldiers are fighting against the Others/Original Inhabitants and that the Others are the ones shooting the flaming arrows--since, as we know, they try to come off as primitives to outsiders.

oh and thanks le bateau ivre! those links look promising.

charlotte is not going to die anytime soon i think. if they're signaling that she's in danger this early on and not killing her immediately, means she has much more to reveal and won't get bumped off until she's fulfilled some big purpose ala Charlie. she's having memory issues tho which might get interesting.

first scene of the episode with faraday in the tunnel is the biggest wow for me

the time-jumping was mine - the trailers kind of made it obvious they'd travelled to the past, so wasn't too surprised by Daniel being there, but i was not expecting them to be traveling back and forth through time. the lost writers must have some insane-looking storyboards for them to be able to keep track of the timelines.

I wonder if to get Daniel into the tunnel in the past, the group left on the island will have to find that station?

I guess Locke knows it, maybe he'll lead them there. And still not know which flower to look for.

I wonder if the Nigerian drug plane crashed because the island moved ("in time?") to the spot where it was flying? I think this is a massive xpost to someone else suggesting the island may have suddenly appeared where the Black Rock was sailing..

oh, and did anyone else notice that Locke got shot at almost the exact same spot on the island that his legs stopped working, that fateful day with Boone?

i did notice! it was a good visual reminder. and terry o quinn's perf just before that bit when Locke fell trying to climb up to the plane was amazing - he'd fallen on his back before and you could see him being completely terrified for a moment there that he might be paralyzed again.

i think the island did definitely move towards nigeria or wherever the beechcraft plane happened to be flying to - though it could have just crashed because it was filled with bullet holes rather than the island just appearing where they were.

I'm guessing Charlotte's nosebleeds are caused by her concurrent existence with a younger self on the island. There might have been some foreshadowing there when she says "I haven't gotten a nosebleed since I was a kid." Concurrent time travel nose bleeds.

Opening scene with Faraday was pretty awesome. I can see them returning to that in the finale simply because Faraday wouldn't be there unless he had a plan to get at that Donkey Wheel. Maybe needs to turn it the other way to stop time skipping. It could be the first time travel point ala Primer.

So, the 'event window' is basically when the island will reappear briefly 3 years in the future relative to island time. The 6 and maybe Locke and Ben can get back on the island and skip along with the rest of them and try to get it to stop. If that's the case I'm looking forward to lots more deus ex machina white light cliffhangers.

So were the flaming arrow shooters and WW2 crew the same people?

It would seem strange that a bunch of guys with rifles would attack with scores of flaming arrows, doesn't it?

The british accents and WWII-era fatigues had me guessing this was probably whenever Widmore found the island -- pre-Dharma, before they "took the island from him" or whatever he told Ben after Ben sneaked into his hotel in season 4.

DAMMIT I CAME HERE TO POST THIS. oh well. pretty sure their rifles were lee-enfields, which were used by the brits until the 50s.

Wait I thought these people were in the same 'time period' i.e. bit of island flash that had Faraday knocking on the hatch and talking to Desmond. So assumed this would have had to have been relatively recently i.e. since Des got there in the timeline that we've already seen.

I wonder if the Nigerian drug plane crashed because the island moved ("in time?") to the spot where it was flying? I think this is a massive xpost to someone else suggesting the island may have suddenly appeared where the Black Rock was sailing..

Yeah I thought this too.

no it was the bit after - it flashed just as Faraday was talking to Des.

Ahh yeah thanks. I was wondering whether the interesting thing about them having no clue whether they're in the past or future is that in the past they can't die?? (grandfather paradox) - but in the future they could. But this wouldn't tie in with Frogurt et al's flaming deaths.

I thought it made sense at the time but now I'm not so sure!

Pfft lostpedia doesn't mention the flash that happened while Faraday was talking to Desmond brother which is why I was confused.

I'm guessing Charlotte's nosebleeds are caused by her concurrent existence with a younger self on the island. There might have been some foreshadowing there when she says "I haven't gotten a nosebleed since I was a kid." Concurrent time travel nose bleeds.

erm..that sounds kind of insane. isn't this just the exact same thing that happened to Desmond? Or Farday's pet rat? She needs a constant.

i just watched this on youtube in the office. holy shit!

i couldn't see all the night-time island stuff too well tho so thought the Brit guys attacking Sawyer and Juliet were just in standard Dharma suits like Ben's Dad's.

Hurley's Mom should've recognised "Pakistani" Sayid when she saw him unconscious on the couch tho c'mon

lol Mrs Hawking wearing that stupid hood just so people wouldn't immediately twig it was her. maybe it's necessary for solving equations tho.

I was wondering whether the interesting thing about them having no clue whether they're in the past or future is that in the past they can't die?? (grandfather paradox) - but in the future they could. But this wouldn't tie in with Frogurt et al's flaming deaths.

oh they can die... it's their past selves that can't die.

this just occurred to me - when faraday met desmond, it seemed like desmond was alone, which means that flight 815 had just crashed (kelvin died that day) but that the castaways hadn't found the Swan hatch yet. which means that the castaways (bernard, frogurt etc.) who were waiting for faraday, sawyer, juliet, charlotte and miles on the beach should have all appeared right in front of their past just-crashed selves at that same beach.

did we talk about this in the s4 finale:

Widmore: are you here to kill me?
Ben: we both know i can't do that

and why Ben would be unable to kill Charles (but can kill Penny as was his aim)? gives credence to theory of Widmore as immortal time-shifting dude a la Batmanuel. i've given up on anyone actually referring to the name Alvar Hanso now tho.

Good point. Although Desmond was 'trapped' in the hatch for ages before Kelvin died, waiting for his replacement, so it may have been pre-crash. But yeah it did seem like it was post-Kelvin death. (xpost)

widmore was on the island at some point so is magic but penny never touched it, just got close?

but when Des killed Kelvin he knew by that point that he didn't have to wear the quarantine costume? and Daniel not wearing one suggested this too. so wouldn't it have happened before the plane crash (and while Kelvin was out)?

it was great to hear "Are yew hem?" again tho

ah yes good point. i guess it was pre-crash then. must be desmond weirdness again since he didn't then mention meeting faraday to kelvin.

I wonder if the Nigerian drug plane crashed because the island moved ("in time?") to the spot where it was flying? I think this is a massive xpost to someone else suggesting the island may have suddenly appeared where the Black Rock was sailing..

I wonder if we will actually SEE the Black Rock crashing on the island? More importantly, maybe the castaways will?

Is there anyone left on the island who knows anything about the Black Rock - did Locke go there/learn about it from Rousseau? From what I remember the expedition was Kate, Hurley, Jack and Arzt?

Locke held his father there and took Sawyer there to kill him.

The jumping around in time could be a really good way of filling in some of the mythological gaps that have been knocking around for donkey's years. Maybe we'll see flaming arrow dudes building the four-toed statue or something.

also surely it is time to re-introduce the two kids from the plane (not that this would be v interesting probably, but still think they should be seen more at least with the remaining Others). also CINDY...ok suppose she was brainwashed but it's hard to believe the stuff they were doing to Carl would actually work on someone that much.

Shamelessly cribbed from the fluxblog front page right now:
Michael Emerson's Emmy Reel, 2009
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The best part is how Ben does not respond to the hot pocket in any way until after it has hit the wall.

Ugh, stupid lack of preview post.
http://i44.tinypic.com/2n1c31c.gif