the last scene of prometheus really just plays like fan fiction, doesn't it? it doesn't really make any sense in the context of the movie beyond just saying SEE??
― brony ver (s1ocki), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:39 (twelve years ago) link
x-post
Well, I guess I never read it that way. The whole thing looks to me as though the company knew exactly what they were sending them to get and it wasn't a random incident. I could be wrong, but seeing Ash's defence of the thing every single step of the way, including letting it in and stopping Dr. Kananga from killing it, which is all odd if they're just following company policy to investigate an anomaly.
However, if this is the case, the company/computer quickly figure out that it is important they keep the alien (see what mother says), so important that killing the crew is less important. This being the case, it still seems weird that once everyone dies (to all intents and purposes) the company then loses interest until 57 years later when Ripley turns up.
― Keith, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:40 (twelve years ago) link
how do we know they lost interest? how do we know they knew any of what had happened?
the movie makes it very clear that they were on another job, and that there is a sort of priority override (unknown to the human crew) that kicks in whenever one of the company's ships runs into signs of alien life.
― brony ver (s1ocki), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:41 (twelve years ago) link
But they didn't lose interest at all. They didn't find out about it until they found Ripley and heard her report, and once she told them, it was a matter of days before all hell had broken loose down on the planet.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:42 (twelve years ago) link
Nostromo coming home>>distress signal/wake up>> crew member impregnated/alien hatches>> computer changes mission to bring back alien at all costs>>>everyone dies, Ripley blows up ship, floats off>>>>>
57 years pass
company finds Ripley, learn she found an alien on this planet, blew everything up>>company tells colonists on planet to investigate alleged alien/eggs, they all die/birth aliens>>>Ripley and marines go to planet to "rescue" colonists but really to get the company an alien.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:44 (twelve years ago) link
So I can see this if we assume that Ash/Mother are acting completely autonomously from the company... The whole 'crew expendible' thing is something that Mother decides on its own and Ash carries out based on that? My assumption is that instructions are being received from the company.
x-post okay I see that's what you think. Still a bit odd that they would let the computer act autonomously.
― Keith, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:46 (twelve years ago) link
I assumed there were standing orders from the company. Like, do your job, but if you find an alien, your mission has changed.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:48 (twelve years ago) link
PS Don't tell the crew, because they are expendable.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:49 (twelve years ago) link
Yes maybe. I'll give up after this, but it's still a bit odd that the computer wouldn't inform Earth and if they were really interested, why not send something better equipped along to check it out. They indicate in Aliens that it's possible to communicate with far away places in reasonable time (i.e. they've lost contact with the colony).
― Keith, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:50 (twelve years ago) link
Oh dear, something very very film dorky suggested itself to me just now.
So David8 really loves Lawrence of Arabia and presumably thinks David Lean is all right for a human director and etc.
David Lean's final film project, which was just about set to film before he died, was an adaptation of...Nostromo.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:51 (twelve years ago) link
Hehe, that is film dorky!
― Keith, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:52 (twelve years ago) link
But Ripley's not on earth in "Aliens," they're somewhere out in space, presumably not far from the colony. As far as I remember, in the first, second and this new one, no one ever contacts or talks to earth.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:54 (twelve years ago) link
xpost whoa
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:56 (twelve years ago) link
SUPER dorky
^^^OTM
crew of nostromo/Mother are not in contact with earth
xxp
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:56 (twelve years ago) link
Just wandered next door to check:
special order 937
science officer only
nostromo rerouted
to new co-ordinates
investigate lifeform. Gather specimen
priority one
insure return of organism
for analysis
all other considerations secondary
crew expendable
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:58 (twelve years ago) link
What else did Mother tell you?
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:59 (twelve years ago) link
Also I hope you didn't turn your back on Ripley this time.
KILL ASH
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:59 (twelve years ago) link
Which I didn't remember - like the rest of y'all I thought everything happened in response to finding an alien at a random distress call.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:00 (twelve years ago) link
I did think it was Earth in Aliens right enough, though it's never stated. I guess the point is the company rather than Earth though xxxp.
― Keith, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:04 (twelve years ago) link
Also, thanks Andrew, I knew there was some sort of conspiracy in there. Shakey, you are entirely right about (certainly my) shit memory. I only watched it last night!
― Keith, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:05 (twelve years ago) link
Alien was far more 70s anti-corporate than anti-govt, tho I always got the vibe that by that point in the future there was probably little difference.
― Dreaming in Infrared (kingfish), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:11 (twelve years ago) link
By Alien Resurrection the tide's shifted and Weyland had been bought by Wal-Mart
really
― mh, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:36 (twelve years ago) link
For all I remember of that piece of crap, that may be right!
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:41 (twelve years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, June 12, 2012 6:00 PM (51 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it DID! but special order 937 is a standing order that applies to just that situation
― brony ver (s1ocki), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:53 (twelve years ago) link
Some sound design talk:
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/06/sound-of-prometheus/
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:53 (twelve years ago) link
i wish that url just lead to an mp3 of a bronx cheer
― brony ver (s1ocki), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:54 (twelve years ago) link
Prometheus: The SmellOVision Experience
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:54 (twelve years ago) link
lol s1ocki
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:57 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, except … it's established in dialogue that Dallas had previously run five missions with another science officer, who was replaced two days before the Nostromo took off by Ash. The Company at least anticipated something was up, or they would not have hastily arranged for Ash to be on the mission.
I'm also pretty sure that the establishing shot of the space station where Ripley wakes up in Aliens implies that it's orbiting Earth.
― Julie Derpy (Phil D.), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:57 (twelve years ago) link
Morbz were the Charlie Chan films a franchise y/n?
― Julie Derpy (Phil D.), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:01 (twelve years ago) link
One of my favorite throw-away lines in Aliens is the reference to previous "bug-hunts" - the Marines get called in to mop up the blowback from previous Special Order 937s.
HUDSON: Is this going to be a stand-up fight, Sir, or another bug-hunt?
GORMAN: All we know is that there's still no contact with the colony and that a xenomorph may be involved.
WIERZBOWSKI: A what?
HICKS (to Wierzbowski; low): It's a bug-hunt.
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:05 (twelve years ago) link
I prefer the cloudy conspiracy - The Company knows about this evil weapon alien and sends nostromo towards it (we don't know how The Company knows, or its exact financial reasoning, & we don't know if the purported, completed mining mission is just flim-flam) - to the algorithm explanation - 'in any circumstances in which a ship locates possible alien life, send the crew towards it, get the alien and sacrifice the crew if necessary.'
But it's slightly undecidable, right? & that faint incoherence and mystery is nr the heart of How Alien Works.
It is why I love Alien, the mystery.
I haven't seen P yet, I know it is going to break my fucking heart.
(xps, yes - Ash-replacement implies conspiracy too)
― woof, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:05 (twelve years ago) link
The Mother message reroutes the spaceship and says to collect the organism. How did it know there was an organism? All that was visible was a 'distress' call.
― Keith, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:20 (twelve years ago) link
it says that BEFORE they find the organism? really?
― brony ver (s1ocki), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:26 (twelve years ago) link
pretty sure it doesnt!
No it doesn't.
― Keith, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:27 (twelve years ago) link
sounds like plot holes don't jump out at you so much when the movie doesn't suck
― the late great, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:27 (twelve years ago) link
Pretty sure a distress call implies another lifeform.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:30 (twelve years ago) link
Mother receives the original distress signal and wakes up the crew and sends them down to the planet. Distress signal contained a "warning", as revealed afterwards and discovered by Ripley. So Mother deciphers the warning, determines an alien is involved, re-routes ship according to standing order and wakes up crew
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:30 (twelve years ago) link
xps
alien does not have plot holes it has constructive zones of indeterminacy
― woof, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:30 (twelve years ago) link
zones of constructive indeterminacy
― woof, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:31 (twelve years ago) link
Also, when Ash 'dies', he seems to know all about the Alien, despite never having actually seen it, except when they're all eating noodles.
― Keith, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:32 (twelve years ago) link
Though why a badass Engineer would send a warning call when he crashed is anyone's guess. Maybe he also took off from the "Prometheus" planet, with alien cooties, then activated the distress signal when he had a hunch a giant monster was about to burst from his belly? And he realized it was so bad he needed to warn everyone not to come close? Except the stupid humans he created and guided to this part of space in the first place?
(This movie messes everything up)
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:33 (twelve years ago) link
pretty sure that counts as seeing it xp
― brony ver (s1ocki), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:33 (twelve years ago) link
the thing about the replacement of Ash is an odd detail, but it doesn't necessarily prove an a priori conspiracy (which raises more questions than it answers - if the company knew where the alien was, why bother with the distress signal pretext etc.)
xp
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:33 (twelve years ago) link
ya that doesnt really prove anything
― brony ver (s1ocki), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:37 (twelve years ago) link
I prefer the cloudy conspiracy - The Company knows about this evil weapon alien and sends nostromo towards it (we don't know how The Company knows, or its exact financial reasoning, & we don't know if the purported, completed mining mission is just flim-flam) - to the algorithm explanation - 'in any circumstances in which a ship locates possible alien life, send the crew towards it, get the alien and sacrifice the crew if necessary
I think the mining mission is legit, but my takeaway is that The Company knew what route the Nostromo was taking and took advantage of it to place Company Man/Robot Ash onboard. From the shooting script...
RIPLEY: What is Special Order 937.
ASH: You know I can't tell you that.
RIPLEY: Then there's no point in talking to you. Pull the plug.
ASH: Special Order 937 in essence asked me to direct the ship to the planet, investigate a life form, possibly hostile and bring it back for observation. With discretion, of course.
RIPLEY: Why? Why not tell us.
ASH: Would you have gone.
PARKER: It wasn't in the contract.
ASH: My very point.
RIPLEY: They wanted to investigate the Alien. No matter what happened to us.
ASH: That's unfair. Actually, you weren't mentioned in the order.
LAMBERT: Those bastards.
ASH: See it from their point of view. They didn't know what the Alien is.
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:38 (twelve years ago) link
Dudes, no. A standing order is "in the following situation, take the following action". A special order is "do this now". The special order says reroute to following co-ordinates -> either they know about the planet (ash put on board for this reason) or this special order comes about after the message is decoded. They were definitely sent there for the alien.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:39 (twelve years ago) link