its just a dumb idea to have countries not be able to control their own currency, what were they thinking
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:06 (twelve years ago) link
also like letting greece in w/o noticing that they were totally lying abt everyone and had really a sham economy
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:07 (twelve years ago) link
shoulda had an exit strategy, or tighter centralized controls. idea pretty great though.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:08 (twelve years ago) link
i am sorry to interrupt the greek euro talk i don't understand but holy fuck goole's link about dental fraud!
― horseshoe, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:08 (twelve years ago) link
ok the point i was getting at is that for all the german whining the french have put in about 3-4x as much bailout money as well
― the late great, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:08 (twelve years ago) link
idea pretty great though.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:08 PM (2 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
idk if the idea was that great like what exactly is the big benefit
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:09 (twelve years ago) link
yeah it is weird that the french havent been whining more, its unlike them xp
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:10 (twelve years ago) link
this if you take the logic far enough would kinda require europe to become one country
which as I understand it was the whole point in the first place/was expected to happen as the next logical step but lol sovereignty and yes, paella.
― Upt0eleven, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:13 (twelve years ago) link
If it had been done properly then a single currency and stronger, linked economies could have given Europe a chance to have more power against the dollar and the gargantuan US economy that basically everyone had to be subservient to for a while.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:15 (twelve years ago) link
yeah i guess it just keeps coming back to linked economies really require linked governments
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:17 (twelve years ago) link
i'm no rah rah cheerleader for capitalism but as i understand it, it is a force that desires flow and loathes national boundaries, so the notion of one large economy running through separate cultural identities etc could have been an interesting experiment for our globalised future but now i think maybe collective farming is the way to go
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:17 (twelve years ago) link
done properly would have meant a federal political union as well as a shonky economic one but i think they were in a bit of a hurry.
― Upt0eleven, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:17 (twelve years ago) link
exactly, which is why they needed a tighter centralized control xpost
i do think its cool how they got countries to take some of their nastier laws off the books
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:18 (twelve years ago) link
having all of europe vote on one parliament or w/e would be the greatest political spectacle in the world
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:19 (twelve years ago) link
they do have a degree of that with the MEPs and all, it just needed more definition. given the Europeans though they might have instinctively gone back to some insane Holy Roman Empire style central power with loads of largely autonomous principalities jibing each other. if you've ever played Europa Universalis III, you'll know how messy that can get.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:21 (twelve years ago) link
wwIII for sure
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:22 (twelve years ago) link
there could have been a way, politically, maybe, but i imagine there would be a lot of speechifying from disgruntled right-wingers, touting the horros of Bratwurst on the Champs-Elysees or Baguettes lining the Appian Way.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:23 (twelve years ago) link
So what does Germany want though? Do I understand correctly that they'd basically like Greece to not need a bailout AND not default, i.e. "austerity"?
― this guy's a gangsta? his real name's mittens. (Hurting 2), Thursday, 24 May 2012 02:48 (twelve years ago) link
this is p good
http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/21/opinion/frum-euro-crisis/index.html?iid=article_sidebar
― this guy's a gangsta? his real name's mittens. (Hurting 2), Thursday, 24 May 2012 03:22 (twelve years ago) link
although I don't really like the conclusion of "no one knows...therefore...BAAAAD"
― this guy's a gangsta? his real name's mittens. (Hurting 2), Thursday, 24 May 2012 03:23 (twelve years ago) link
well austerity is a condition for the ongoing bailout, germany would like greece to do what it says and in return theyll continue to give them money
― lag∞n, Thursday, 24 May 2012 03:23 (twelve years ago) link
oh fine u hate yeglesias but u like frum *rolls eyes*
― lag∞n, Thursday, 24 May 2012 03:25 (twelve years ago) link
thats a p good piece actually but it kinda dances around how insane things would get if spain left the euro
like this is all spanish banks failing simultaneously: Financial institutions that have bought Spanish credit-card debt (or Spanish mortgages or whatever) may discover equally shockingly late that their bonds also will not and cannot pay off in full.
― lag∞n, Thursday, 24 May 2012 03:32 (twelve years ago) link
His explanation of what leaving the euro would do to local commodities like housing and labor vs. "tradable" stuff was helpful
― this guy's a gangsta? his real name's mittens. (Hurting 2), Thursday, 24 May 2012 03:40 (twelve years ago) link
it's kind of overstating the case when it says "shockingly late that their bonds ..." because the surprise isn't there anymore. out of that 130 billion euro bailout, 100 billion of it is from investors writing down the greek bond debt. so when they talk about building an additional 700 billion euro firewall around europe what they're talking about is preparing to write down other big chunks of debt.
― the late great, Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:14 (twelve years ago) link
I'd be very surprised if anyone owns bonds backed by Spanish credit-card debt and is not extremely aware of the risks at this point.
― o. nate, Thursday, 24 May 2012 15:28 (twelve years ago) link
I wonder who was smart enought to buy up Credit Default Swaps on all this debt early on.
― this guy's a gangsta? his real name's mittens. (Hurting 2), Thursday, 24 May 2012 15:31 (twelve years ago) link
This is a decent article about European bank exposure to a Greek exit:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-22/european-banks-unprepared-for-pandora-s-box-of-greek-exit.html
― o. nate, Thursday, 24 May 2012 15:40 (twelve years ago) link
a fair amount of CDS on European debt is euro-denominated, so there's that too... (wrong-way risk, they call it)
― s.clover, Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:01 (twelve years ago) link
http://av.r.ftdata.co.uk/files/2012/05/Estimated-cost-of-Grexit-Nomura-1024x612.png
― just sayin, Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:02 (twelve years ago) link
huh so these gargantuan cds contracts don't contain some kind of exchange risk provisions?
― this guy's a gangsta? his real name's mittens. (Hurting 2), Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:03 (twelve years ago) link
http://news.firedoglake.com/2012/05/25/sec-ends-probe-into-lehman-brothers-without-taking-action/
I think Hurting 2 led the investigation. Just joking (and yea its the SEC and not Justice ...)
― curmudgeon, Friday, 25 May 2012 15:30 (twelve years ago) link
The officials have weighed issuing a public report on their findings that would stop short of an enforcement action while highlighting the firm’s questionable conduct.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 25 May 2012 15:31 (twelve years ago) link
hurting: i don't know the numbers. most european cds is USD, but for a time, a fair amount was euro.
― s.clover, Friday, 25 May 2012 16:17 (twelve years ago) link
A passage that struck me in The Big Short this morning:
"One of the reasons that Wall Street had cooked up this new industry called structured finance was that its old-fashioned business was every day less profitable. The profits in stockbroking, along with those in the more conventional sorts of bond broking, had been squashed by internet competition."
Sort of set off a light bulb for me. Wall Street would rather have the predictable profits from its old-fashioned businesses -- the old "make other people's money work for you" adage. Profits whether the market goes up or down. Profits from transaction costs. It's when that model is put at risk that Wall Street starts thrashing around and doing crazier, more risky things. It's almost like a gambler doubling down.
― this guy's a gangsta? his real name's mittens. (Hurting 2), Friday, 1 June 2012 15:03 (twelve years ago) link
Can you give me a timeline here? Does old-fashioned mean when Glass-Stegall still existed?
― curmudgeon, Friday, 1 June 2012 19:59 (twelve years ago) link
alphaville iama on reddit. good reading: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/uflwl/iama_reporter_on_the_financial_times_alphaville/
― s.clover, Friday, 1 June 2012 20:22 (twelve years ago) link
When E-trade (or Scotttrade, Ameritrade, Fidelity, Schwab, etc.) advertise $9.99 for unlimited share amount transaction fees, its worth noting that Merrill Lynch et. al. in the 70s used to make around $150 for the first 100 shares traded and a sliding percentage of total dollar amount thereafter. Trading was expensive, investors had to buy and hold, and brokers went out of their way to seek new clients and sometimes even keep them happy to ensure future commissions.
Additionally, stock prices used to be quoted in 1/4th, 1/8th and sometimes 1/16th of a dollar, ensuring that the spread between bid and ask that the brokerage could pocket if they were doing a interclient trade was at least $0.06 and usually more like $0.25, per share. With decimalization of share prices, the spread on liquid securities has dropped to fractions of a penny.
The disintermediation of discount, and later, internet trading totally destroyed the business model of the brokerage industry.
― The Painter of Blight™ (Sanpaku), Friday, 1 June 2012 22:49 (twelve years ago) link
But to detail what went wrong in the CIO, Dimon has repeatedly promised to be an “open kimono” — a phrase that we hope he will wean himself off.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2012/06/22/1056901/jpm-to-host-face-to-face-analyst-meeting-after-q2-earnings/
― just sayin, Friday, 22 June 2012 18:06 (twelve years ago) link
oh lord
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 23 June 2012 00:02 (twelve years ago) link
sooo what do we think of the LIBOR SCANDAL?
huge deal in the UK, not a blip stateside
― goole, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 18:17 (twelve years ago) link
yeah super big deal here, which seems fair enough?? affects a lot of things (it seems)
― just sayin, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 18:21 (twelve years ago) link
Barclays apparently planning to strip Bob Diamond of most of his stock options and such that generally soften the blow of being run out of town.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 18:25 (twelve years ago) link
The LIBOR scandal hasn't taken off here (USA) as a story, but it is getting some play. It's this kind of casual manipulation of the market that destroys trust in banks and bankers, and someone needs to point out that without a certain amount of trust to grease the wheels the whole financial system would freeze up as solid as a rock. The punishments for such abuses should be commensurate with the damage they do to the whole system.
― Aimless, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 18:26 (twelve years ago) link
It's this kind of casual manipulation of the market that destroys trust in banks and bankersIt's this kind of casual manipulation of the market that destroys trust in banks and bankers
destroys what now?
― goole, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 18:29 (twelve years ago) link
er, didn't mean to paste that twice
cheap joek. if people really had no trust in banks, bank assets would evaporate so fast you could hardly blink twice.
― Aimless, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 18:31 (twelve years ago) link
Libor should really be getting more play in the US. There's $500trn based on it in one way or another, and a lot of public money (via states and cities) made or lost via it. Be surprised if there aren't fraud investigations and a shit-ton of lawsuits from the US over this.
― stet, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 18:34 (twelve years ago) link
i think people assume everybody holding their money is a blood-drinking bandit, probably gives them a lot of room to maneuver in shit like this, perversely enough.
― goole, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 18:34 (twelve years ago) link