ie how is it any better to buy vegetables grown in San diego rather than the central valley if the water comes from colorado or lake shasta?
that's a fair point, but it's obvious that it's "better" in some ways to grow vegetables in your backyard, provided you do it responsibly, than it is to have them shipped in from chile or wherever. between the two extremes, you arrive at a pretty solid in-principle defense of locavorism, imo.
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:30 (twelve years ago) link
yes well what has ever convinced contenderizer of anything, certainly not evidence and reasoning
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:31 (twelve years ago) link
yeah vahid I made more or less the same argument upthread. well, I think it was upthread. or somewhere. anyway the argument happened.
― iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:31 (twelve years ago) link
also if only not knowing things really kept you from responding, would be a miracle imo
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:32 (twelve years ago) link
plus locavorism tends to go hand-in-hand with serious organic farming, commitment to sustainability, and support for small local producers, all of which i'm in favor of, so long as they successfully walk their talk.
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:33 (twelve years ago) link
road to hell, good intentions, etc
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:33 (twelve years ago) link
more talk than walk imo
chile is a pretty good strawman, but most of my vegetables come from the central valley which is a lot closer than where my agua comes from
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:35 (twelve years ago) link
but yeah basically people who are really into 'efficiency' w/r/t lightbulbs sometimes care less about effiency when it comes to production or transportation chains
― iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:36 (twelve years ago) link
*ears burning*
― drum hitler gets full publishing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:37 (twelve years ago) link
lol, provide some, and we'll see.
like i'm seriously curious about the NYT editorial you mention, but absent the article and the evidence in support of it, you're right, i'm not convinced.
fwiw, i was briefly convinced, by an study that iatee posted in the gentrification thread, that gentrification might not be such a bad thing after all. i was then promptly unconvinced by some good, evidence-evidence-and-reasoning based argument provided by others itt. anything is possible...
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:37 (twelve years ago) link
so if you grow veggies in your yard where does the fertilizer come from?
yes that's right, shipped from chile
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:38 (twelve years ago) link
chile is a pretty good strawman
chile is not a "strawman". it is a country. lots of food comes from there. shipping it elsewhere uses a lot of resources.
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:38 (twelve years ago) link
compost dude
― drum hitler gets full publishing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:39 (twelve years ago) link
Just shit in your garden.
― Jeff, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:39 (twelve years ago) link
Organic, natural.
artisanal compost from local vegetables no doubt
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:40 (twelve years ago) link
and fertilizer does not necessarily come from chile. iirc, most of it comes from the composter.
i'm not sure what your point is here. yes, things come from all over. no, no one is perfect. but that doesn't mean that it's foolish to pay attention to where your food comes from, or that you can't accomplish some modest good by eating locally produced food where possible.
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:41 (twelve years ago) link
it is really easy to make your own compost...? wtf
― drum hitler gets full publishing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:41 (twelve years ago) link
Do ppl still do worm composting?
― Jeff, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:42 (twelve years ago) link
every household generates organic waste, it isn't that hard to collect it.
― drum hitler gets full publishing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:42 (twelve years ago) link
more hipster knife talk please! this is where i come for my hipster hatchet talk!
― scott seward, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:43 (twelve years ago) link
sorry. but wasn't there just some huge thread about the evils of local produce?
was it this one? i think it was another one.
I think it was
― iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:44 (twelve years ago) link
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Th1FOsmBlYE/TwtY5IvXD4I/AAAAAAAADWQ/64_DaA9ydtU/s400/842.fd.YNTKAwhaleknives.jpg
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:44 (twelve years ago) link
i keep getting the quiddity thread and this thread and now the gentrification thread confused! i don't know where i am anymore.
― scott seward, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:45 (twelve years ago) link
my point is that your green consumerism backpatting indicates shallow and facile thinking
if i seem het up its cause i get annoyed when people tell me things are "obvious" and then spout a bunch of crap
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:45 (twelve years ago) link
quiddity thread and this thread kinda my fave ile threads though. i'm no hater. they speak to me.
― scott seward, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:46 (twelve years ago) link
we're doing the farmshare thing this year. we will be making a lot of soup. well, we're splitting a share with someone else.
― scott seward, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:47 (twelve years ago) link
perhaps, but you're not offering any kind of substantive rebuttal. you're just snarking douchily at me (see above).
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:49 (twelve years ago) link
i honestly don't see any sin in my use of the world "obviously" a few posts back. if that sort of thing really gets your tits up, i recommend 3 beers.
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:50 (twelve years ago) link
implication being that green consumerism is NOT the issue, it's the attitude you detect behind people spouting off about it. these are separate issues.
― drum hitler gets full publishing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:51 (twelve years ago) link
no, actually the issue is that 'green consumerism' is an oxymoron
― iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:52 (twelve years ago) link
I'm just quoting him, it's not a term I support
― drum hitler gets full publishing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:53 (twelve years ago) link
didn't you make a thread about this where I pwnd you some more
― iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:54 (twelve years ago) link
I remember that vaguely
don't think anybody's gonna argue that consuming less >>>>>>>> consuming "green"
lol
― drum hitler gets full publishing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:54 (twelve years ago) link
what would be substantive here?
my experiences on my former brother in laws local organic farm? the work i did w the chino family farm? my two years experience in the artisanal food industry? the summer i spent w my grandfather trekking around the central valley as he studied water table issues w pomegranate farms? my geochemistry internship at scripps? the ES classes I taught?
do tell.
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:54 (twelve years ago) link
it needn't be phrased that way. we might just as well say "environmentally conscious consumption". one can obviously use one's power as a consumer to encourage environmentally responsible practices.
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:55 (twelve years ago) link
― iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:55 (twelve years ago) link
I'd rank approaches to living responsibly in the modern world as follows1) consume as little as possible2) consume as responsibly as possible3) encourage others to do likewise/live by example4) argue on the internet about it
― drum hitler gets full publishing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:57 (twelve years ago) link
no, you tell. if there's something i've said that you think is wrong, show me the error of my ways. i'm not claiming that locavorism is an absolute good, or that all supposedly "green" practices are better than anything else.
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:57 (twelve years ago) link
I'm gonna have those three beers now, you're not going to stop talking out yr ass until you get yr head out of it and i can't give you lived experience or book learning on a message board
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:57 (twelve years ago) link
my experiences on my former brother in laws local organic farm
lol as opposed to your brother-in-law's non-local organic farm that you commute to via jetpack?
defensive much?
anyway gotta go eat dinner at the local organic mexican restaurant seeya
― drum hitler gets full publishing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:58 (twelve years ago) link
lol wut? are you saying that consumption patterns affect nothing?
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:58 (twelve years ago) link
you're not going to stop talking out yr ass until you get yr head out of it and i can't give you lived experience or book learning on a message board
again with the douchey, egocentric blather. any point one might wish to make can be made on a message board just as easily as it might be made elsewhere. i'm not asking for scientific proof. just something other than snide bullshit (a valuable fertilizer).
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Friday, 20 April 2012 00:00 (twelve years ago) link
the chino family! i love them! great acrobatic team.
― scott seward, Friday, 20 April 2012 00:01 (twelve years ago) link
holy shit you guys type fast. r.i.p. beloved hipster hatchet thread...
― the late great, Thursday, April 19, 2012 7:35 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I think the continuing water-management disaster that is southern California's probably a more pernicious evil than locavores.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Friday, 20 April 2012 00:02 (twelve years ago) link
scott come to noho sometime we can go to the dirty truth or sthing and eat local organic artisanal hamburgers or w/e and talk about hatchets and what we would do with them