yessssss
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 21:30 (twelve years ago) link
mayo lady apparently writes for esquire.com
― mh, Thursday, 19 April 2012 21:33 (twelve years ago) link
this thread is tl;dr and i know someone else has probably already said this
but i have really lost faith in anything labeled "artisanal" or "heritage" or "handcrafted" or whatever being any better than run of the mill shit, which i honestly believe to be a side-effect of the proliferation of this shit as marketing tool.
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 21:34 (twelve years ago) link
worth noting that 'artisan' once solely described producers of durable & decorative goods, describing food producers as artisans is a v recent development
― zubaz fupa (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 19 April 2012 21:38 (twelve years ago) link
Mayo lady is a million feet tall and amazing looking and makes faces for the camera more often than she looks into it, judging by the gis, and is my new hero. WWEVD? She'd make a face to distract you and then slam your drink. And write about it.
― how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Thursday, 19 April 2012 21:40 (twelve years ago) link
sometimes yes, sometimes no. i mean, i know who makes good bread, cheese, chocolate and cured meats locally, and most of my favorite beers are produced in small quantities. whether an "artisanal" beeswax candle is any better than what you'd get at the mall store is more of a judgement call.
i do think that there's real value in supporting small, ethical local businesses wherever possible, even if their stuff isn't markedly better than what you can get at the supermarket.
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 21:41 (twelve years ago) link
xp to elmo
WEABLTW
― scott seward, Thursday, 19 April 2012 21:42 (twelve years ago) link
i do think that there's real value in supporting small, ethical local businesses wherever possible
IMO the small ethical local business in my neighborhood is the burrito shop across the street, not the jackasses who just built a huge ugly new bar decorated w/ pista frames and repurposed wood and are charging $10 for a plate of homemade sauerkraut using local cabbage
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 22:53 (twelve years ago) link
i was pining for an artisanal burrito today, not gonna lie.
― Philip Nunez, Thursday, 19 April 2012 22:54 (twelve years ago) link
i just looked up pista frames. they are part of a bicycle!
― scott seward, Thursday, 19 April 2012 22:55 (twelve years ago) link
they want $20 for two sausages and a piece of homemade bread
fuk u guyz i can do that in the comfort of my own home for half the price, even if i was a fool and went to whole foods for it
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 22:56 (twelve years ago) link
re tlg & ethics: yeah, it's a judgment call
nothing wrong with locavores, imo, though the eco-yupster trappings do sometimes grate. and i expect to pay more at a decent restaurant than i would at home. i'm cool with that, though i don't often have money to spare on that kind of thing. happy hour imo.
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:02 (twelve years ago) link
localvores should eat people
― Jeff, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:08 (twelve years ago) link
Preferably themselves.
eh, i can't get too worked up about it. good for the environment, good for the local economy. stuff that hasn't been shipped around the world is generally healthier and tastes better. i like the "pig lady" who sells homemade sausages at the farmers market. i like growing my own food.
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:13 (twelve years ago) link
actually there is no guarantee that locavorism is good for the environment, there was a very recent NYT editorial (last week?) that cited some studies showing that a lot of "sustainable" and "ethical" practices re: livestock farming were actually worse for the environment than traditional farming
the writer was not a good industry hack but a pro-veg dude arguing that all meat consumption is inherently unsustainable, not that I give a fuck but score one against locavores
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:21 (twelve years ago) link
I was feeling all smug as I was ready to post a "Portlandia is artisanal TV comedy," but someone already name-checked the show upthread.
Back to crafting small-run artisanal PHP code.
― Reality Check Cashing Services (Elvis Telecom), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:26 (twelve years ago) link
is yr code /usr/local/src?
― Philip Nunez, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:27 (twelve years ago) link
i understand the same is true for many non-meat practices, esp if you can get away w charging a high premium for what you do you don't have much incentive to be efficient
ie how is it any better to buy vegetables grown in San diego rather than the central valley if the water comes from colorado or lake shasta?
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:27 (twelve years ago) link
exposto
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:28 (twelve years ago) link
i can't say that really convinces me of anything. would have to know more about the article to really respond. from what i can tell, the people who are most deeply involved in sustainable and ethical livestock farming tend to be pretty well-informed about environmental impact. and like any subject, there will always be disagreement regarding what is, in fact, better and worse.
locavorism is a relatively recent movement driven, for the most part, by genuine ethical and environmental concern. plus lol yuppie narcissism if you wish. while it may not always get everything right, it seems more likely to respond to valid lessons about what it gets wrong than commercial agriculture.
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:29 (twelve years ago) link
that's a fair point, but it's obvious that it's "better" in some ways to grow vegetables in your backyard, provided you do it responsibly, than it is to have them shipped in from chile or wherever. between the two extremes, you arrive at a pretty solid in-principle defense of locavorism, imo.
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:30 (twelve years ago) link
yes well what has ever convinced contenderizer of anything, certainly not evidence and reasoning
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:31 (twelve years ago) link
yeah vahid I made more or less the same argument upthread. well, I think it was upthread. or somewhere. anyway the argument happened.
― iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:31 (twelve years ago) link
also if only not knowing things really kept you from responding, would be a miracle imo
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:32 (twelve years ago) link
plus locavorism tends to go hand-in-hand with serious organic farming, commitment to sustainability, and support for small local producers, all of which i'm in favor of, so long as they successfully walk their talk.
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:33 (twelve years ago) link
road to hell, good intentions, etc
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:33 (twelve years ago) link
more talk than walk imo
chile is a pretty good strawman, but most of my vegetables come from the central valley which is a lot closer than where my agua comes from
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:35 (twelve years ago) link
but yeah basically people who are really into 'efficiency' w/r/t lightbulbs sometimes care less about effiency when it comes to production or transportation chains
― iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:36 (twelve years ago) link
*ears burning*
― drum hitler gets full publishing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:37 (twelve years ago) link
lol, provide some, and we'll see.
like i'm seriously curious about the NYT editorial you mention, but absent the article and the evidence in support of it, you're right, i'm not convinced.
fwiw, i was briefly convinced, by an study that iatee posted in the gentrification thread, that gentrification might not be such a bad thing after all. i was then promptly unconvinced by some good, evidence-evidence-and-reasoning based argument provided by others itt. anything is possible...
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:37 (twelve years ago) link
so if you grow veggies in your yard where does the fertilizer come from?
yes that's right, shipped from chile
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:38 (twelve years ago) link
chile is a pretty good strawman
chile is not a "strawman". it is a country. lots of food comes from there. shipping it elsewhere uses a lot of resources.
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:38 (twelve years ago) link
compost dude
― drum hitler gets full publishing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:39 (twelve years ago) link
Just shit in your garden.
― Jeff, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:39 (twelve years ago) link
Organic, natural.
artisanal compost from local vegetables no doubt
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:40 (twelve years ago) link
and fertilizer does not necessarily come from chile. iirc, most of it comes from the composter.
i'm not sure what your point is here. yes, things come from all over. no, no one is perfect. but that doesn't mean that it's foolish to pay attention to where your food comes from, or that you can't accomplish some modest good by eating locally produced food where possible.
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:41 (twelve years ago) link
it is really easy to make your own compost...? wtf
― drum hitler gets full publishing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:41 (twelve years ago) link
Do ppl still do worm composting?
― Jeff, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:42 (twelve years ago) link
every household generates organic waste, it isn't that hard to collect it.
― drum hitler gets full publishing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:42 (twelve years ago) link
more hipster knife talk please! this is where i come for my hipster hatchet talk!
― scott seward, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:43 (twelve years ago) link
sorry. but wasn't there just some huge thread about the evils of local produce?
was it this one? i think it was another one.
I think it was
― iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:44 (twelve years ago) link
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Th1FOsmBlYE/TwtY5IvXD4I/AAAAAAAADWQ/64_DaA9ydtU/s400/842.fd.YNTKAwhaleknives.jpg
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:44 (twelve years ago) link
i keep getting the quiddity thread and this thread and now the gentrification thread confused! i don't know where i am anymore.
― scott seward, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:45 (twelve years ago) link
my point is that your green consumerism backpatting indicates shallow and facile thinking
if i seem het up its cause i get annoyed when people tell me things are "obvious" and then spout a bunch of crap
― the late great, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:45 (twelve years ago) link
quiddity thread and this thread kinda my fave ile threads though. i'm no hater. they speak to me.
― scott seward, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:46 (twelve years ago) link