that's why you don't vote for Blue Dogs and, if you have made that mistake in the past, you rectify it (i.e., you don't vote for them again).
― kurwa mać (Polish for "long life") (Eisbaer), Friday, March 30, 2012 10:12 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
we actually have relatively few blue dogs left in the congress...because the seats are now republican...woohoo...
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 15:19 (twelve years ago) link
i know, iatee ... and good riddance to them, too.
― kurwa mać (Polish for "long life") (Eisbaer), Friday, 30 March 2012 15:23 (twelve years ago) link
okay
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 15:23 (twelve years ago) link
i can see both sides. on one hand short-term i'd rather have someone who caucuses with the Democrats 50% of the time over the person who caucuses with the Democrats 0% of the time. on the other hand ideological purity could mean short-term someone who will never caucus with Democrats but longterm someone who caucuses 100% of the time (not to even get into fringe benefits of having clarity about what your party stands for + stuff like that).
― Mordy, Friday, 30 March 2012 15:38 (twelve years ago) link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Blue_Dogs.svg
that's the map of the blue dawg caucus in 2009, before the great slaughter. most of those places (southern and/or rural) aren't going to send a 100%er anytime in the next 20 years
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 15:45 (twelve years ago) link
i know that this discussion has been had before ... and once upon a time, iatee, i would've argued yer point. but that was before watching the Blue Dogs work their, um, blue magic, and more often than not the results worked out the same as they would've had there been a bona fide Republican.
― kurwa mać (Polish for "long life") (Eisbaer), Friday, 30 March 2012 15:48 (twelve years ago) link
well, you got what you wished for I guess
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 15:52 (twelve years ago) link
we sure showed that budget
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 15:53 (twelve years ago) link
most of those places (southern and/or rural) aren't going to send a 100%er anytime in the next 20 years
oh, you don't know that, at all. this is just your ideology talking.
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 30 March 2012 15:59 (twelve years ago) link
we can all agree blue dogs are scumbags?
― recent thug (k3vin k.), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:02 (twelve years ago) link
no idea why aero thinks the deep south is gonna get all librul anytime soon
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:03 (twelve years ago) link
not really. There was once a place for'em. Now I can think of a few places I'd like to stick them.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:04 (twelve years ago) link
oh cool this argument
― max, Friday, 30 March 2012 16:06 (twelve years ago) link
lol
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:06 (twelve years ago) link
BEATLES OR STONES
― 1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:07 (twelve years ago) link
AND WHY
― 1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:08 (twelve years ago) link
because I live here & actually know what it's like?
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:12 (twelve years ago) link
(realistically of course it's not going to get "all liberal," any more than the west is)
idgi
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:20 (twelve years ago) link
hell in 1932 we thought the Solid South would stay solid.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:22 (twelve years ago) link
Dude...no. You live in one part of it, one kind of it. I live in another, see different stuff, where not even the college towns can muster up enough progressive support to do any real good.
― Whiney Houson (WmC), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:24 (twelve years ago) link
it may have switched parties, but the economic interests of the south have not really changed much since then
xp
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:24 (twelve years ago) link
regional economic interests just swapped parties in the 20th century. we've been over this.
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:25 (twelve years ago) link
also I don't get how the west (I'm assuming aero means CA, but also maybe WA and OR?) is not "all liberal". In many ways it's much more liberal than huge swathes of the country.
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:26 (twelve years ago) link
well there are many rural parts of the west so sometimes it's important to highlight the rural/urban divide more than the blue state red state thing, otherwise you will get people saying "most of california is conservative!!" as if it were some truth bomb
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 16:28 (twelve years ago) link
west coast != "the west"
― joygoat, Friday, 30 March 2012 16:28 (twelve years ago) link
From about 50-75 miles inland from the population centers, CA flips to solid red.
― Whiney Houson (WmC), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:28 (twelve years ago) link
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:29 (twelve years ago) link
"population centers" being the key part of your post
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:30 (twelve years ago) link
unpopulated areas don't vote fwiw
aaaaaanyway - Walker recall election in less than 90 days
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:34 (twelve years ago) link
this is true, I'm in a pretty rad bubble & you're way down there. it's true that population centers tend to get more progressive and as things get sparer less so - Birmingham's is fun & cool but I wouldn't wanna live elsewhere down there. MS/AL is basically what Shakey means by "the south" I figure & it's true that its voting patterns are pretty consistant. btw Shakey Mo which was the state that spearheaded all the gay marriage legislation that's finally making its way down here? was it MS? AL? GA? memory fuckin w/me here
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:43 (twelve years ago) link
massachusetts
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 16:44 (twelve years ago) link
loooool is that actually true, was there an MA prop 22/prop 8 that preceded California?
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:45 (twelve years ago) link
prop 8's been struck down fyi and was financed by out-of-state interests as I'm sure yr aware
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:47 (twelve years ago) link
it wasn't voted for by out-of-state interests dude, be real w/yourself
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:48 (twelve years ago) link
things started judicially in MN in 1972
looks like legislatively, things really started in Alaska and Hawaii back in 1998
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States#Timeline_of_major_events
― THIS TRADE SERVES ZERO FOOTBALL PURPOSE (DJP), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:50 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=15576
Six months after gay and lesbian couples began legally marring in Massachusetts, opponents of same-sex marriage swept Election Day, with voters in 11 states approving constitutional amendments codifying marriage as an exclusively heterosexual institution.
The amendments won in Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Ohio, Utah and even Oregon the one state where gay rights activists had hoped to prevail.
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:51 (twelve years ago) link
so step the fuck off with that shit
http://andrewgelman.com/2009/06/gay_marriage_a/
what's interesting is actually how reliably places have been fitting the model of which states we'd expect to pass gay marriage
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 16:53 (twelve years ago) link
like it's really one of the best issues to isolate the difference between massachusetts and alabama, so, I mean
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 16:54 (twelve years ago) link
legislatively yes! if/when the issue goes to the polls it's a different picture though, right. or not right?
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:56 (twelve years ago) link
no, the model is based on voters opinions on the subject
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 16:57 (twelve years ago) link
lol the voters of CA (twice!) expressed their opinion about it where it actually had consequences & the results were odious!
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:58 (twelve years ago) link
prop 8 was mostly a timing thing, it was a tad too soon, 4 years later californians have already shifted enough that it wouldn't pass. also old people die.
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 16:59 (twelve years ago) link
tend to agree w/you there but it passed in CA twice, once as Prop 22 and again as Prop 8. while your "population density tends to equal greater tolerance" model has some pith to it I think it vastly, vastly overstates the general decency of, y'know, people.
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 30 March 2012 17:00 (twelve years ago) link
right, but it passed with a large margin in 2000 and a fairly small margin in 2008, it has nothing to do with 'decency of people', its just old people dying and people softening on the issue
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 17:02 (twelve years ago) link
anyway just read the article I linked, I have to go
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 17:04 (twelve years ago) link
idk man I see the appeal of the "younger people will be more liberal" model, I know a lot of people who subscribe to it & I'm sure there are charts aplenty but put the "right" kind of conservatism in front of young people and they become young Reagan Republicans, I'm a good deal less optimistic about the "history's tending this way" model
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 30 March 2012 17:04 (twelve years ago) link
no there is also evidence that, contrary to popular belief, people tend to stick w/ the ideology they had at 24 or w/e. but in any case, gay marriage is pretty much the perfect case study of 'history's tending this way", like it is doing so in an incredibly predictably manner.
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 17:06 (twelve years ago) link