No, the jury never gets to hear Zimmerman's story unless he takes the stand. There's nobody else around to testify to it, after all. If you're his lawyer, do you put him on?
i don't necessarily mean his words from his lips, just his version of events - and yes, that likely presented by his lawyer
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 17:43 (twelve years ago) link
good comma there goole
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 17:46 (twelve years ago) link
His lawyer cannot testify as to events, he can only ask questions. xp
― butvi wouls (Phil D.), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 17:47 (twelve years ago) link
yeah exactly. ps killing black men because they're all intent on robbing you is the SAME RACIAL MYTHOLOGY as black men will rape all your white women because they're oversexed brutes.
― horseshoe, Tuesday, March 20, 2012 1:21 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
both these things are about white dudes' property, just to make it explicit
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 17:47 (twelve years ago) link
Adding: Opening and closing arguments are not testimony.
the irony that white people think black people are so scary when really black people are terrified of white people because look what happens.
This, this, a thousand times this.
― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 17:48 (twelve years ago) link
Also, I think we all know what would have happened had Martin been armed and shot Zimmerman: He'd be in jail right now, any self-defense claim would be rejected, and they'd probably be preparing to try him as an adult and lock him up forever (or execute him) because of the vicious nature of the crime of gunning down a community leader who was trying to protect his neighbors.
― butvi wouls (Phil D.), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 17:49 (twelve years ago) link
going to go stare expressionlessly at the wall for 5 hours, brb
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 17:51 (twelve years ago) link
the right wing argument is, i believe, zimmerman is actually mexican so it can't be a hate crime.
― goole, Tuesday, March 20, 2012 12:44 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i wrote something about this today and so far the right-wing comments/twitter reaction is "why didn't you specify zimmerman's race, eh?"
― max, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 17:52 (twelve years ago) link
goole knows his right wing
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 17:52 (twelve years ago) link
i mean even taking away the racial aspect for a second, it's still fucked beyond fucked that some huge dude shot an unarmed 17-year-old kid carrying a bag of skittles
― ffun. (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 17:54 (twelve years ago) link
or, deep in the comment weeds, there was an attack earlier this month by two black kids with gasoline on a white kid in kansas city, and "nobody in the liberal media cared", even though the cops a) considered it a hate crime and were b) investigating it! double standards!!
― goole, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 17:55 (twelve years ago) link
that was nice btw, max, your gawker piece. i don't know what to do with my feelings about this case, but that helped.
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 17:57 (twelve years ago) link
― butvi wouls (Phil D.), Tuesday, March 20, 2012 10:47 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
as i understand it, lawyers can and do present theories regarding what happened. they do it directly in summation, and they do it by calling witnesses that will present a certain version of events.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 17:57 (twelve years ago) link
thanks h
― max, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 17:59 (twelve years ago) link
[continuing from my xp] i mean, you say that "opening and closing arguments are not testimony", but opening and closing arguments attempt to frame and explain testimony. they provide a narrative that the legal team hopes the jury will accept as the truth.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 17:59 (twelve years ago) link
yow, never heard about this. sounds ghastly.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:01 (twelve years ago) link
story promoted heavily on conservative blogs
― goole, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:03 (twelve years ago) link
well, i don't read those, so no wonder. is there any other dimension to it that might make it generically newsworthy, like were the assailants not charged?
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:04 (twelve years ago) link
goole reads these things so we don't have to
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:05 (twelve years ago) link
zimmerman's and the police department's racist motives are disturbingly complementary tbh; the police were likely just relieved that zimmerman was not related to any of their officers, that he was non-white was just a bonus
― i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:06 (twelve years ago) link
damn max, really love ur piece.
― desk calendar white out (Matt P), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:07 (twelve years ago) link
ha i just found that shit now! a case like this i always wonder what the 'other side' thinks. plus it's kind of a case study in information pathways and what have you.
― goole, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:08 (twelve years ago) link
okay i looked at the comments thread and they do like to accuse the reporters of "stirring up racial tensions." not the dude who said "fucking coon," of course. it was max who did it.
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:09 (twelve years ago) link
great article max
― goole, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:14 (twelve years ago) link
^^
― dayo, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:15 (twelve years ago) link
― any major prude will tell you (WmC), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:15 (twelve years ago) link
thanks everyone
― max, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:16 (twelve years ago) link
yeah that was particularly bad ass
― thuggish ruggish Brahms (DJP), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:16 (twelve years ago) link
some guy set up a twitter account just to tweet at me about how zimmerman is hispanic but it looks like twitter took it down :-(
― max, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:17 (twelve years ago) link
hey max u suck
― been to lots of college and twitter (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:17 (twelve years ago) link
Adding to all the love. Max that was prime.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:17 (twelve years ago) link
but this is the kind of thing: https://twitter.com/#!/DetroitRight/status/182140941006671872
just keeping your ego in check
― been to lots of college and twitter (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:18 (twelve years ago) link
meghan mccain tweeting at toure is gonna solve this whole thing
― 3hunn O))) (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:20 (twelve years ago) link
oh wow and i got in a minor twitter fight with this guy.... who proceeded to change his avatar to a picture of me in what i can only assume is meant to be blackface
https://twitter.com/#!/TreborRocker
― max, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:20 (twelve years ago) link
nice work, max
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:20 (twelve years ago) link
― max, Tuesday, March 20, 2012 2:20 PM (37 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
oh my god
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:21 (twelve years ago) link
Ha. Just came here to post a big textual thumbs up to max's piece. Gonna go spread that love around.
― Soggy Cheeseburgers (Deric W. Haircare), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:21 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, max u kick ass! Forgive me if I don't have the fortitude to read the comments, though.
― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:29 (twelve years ago) link
don't worry it's all about serial killers rmde
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:29 (twelve years ago) link
internet right wing reactions to this remind me of reactions to the DeOnte Rawlings case. mercifully that link doesn't contain the comments, but there were an insane amount of the "if your name was DeOnte you had it coming" variety iirc.
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:34 (twelve years ago) link
that post headline really undersells the facts, btw; it basically seems like some offduty cops shot a 14 year old boy and then covered it up.
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:35 (twelve years ago) link
46 911 calls in the last year or since January 1? Repots conflict. Either way, odds are pretty good that Zimmerman made more than a few of those calls INSIDE A GODDAMN GATED COMMUNITY and is too off-center to realize the irony.
― Andy K, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:56 (twelve years ago) link
(And of course -- great work, Max.)
― Andy K, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:57 (twelve years ago) link
max, the voice in yr. piece reminds me of a junot diaz short story. intentional?
― s.clover, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:00 (twelve years ago) link
not really, though i am a fan.
― max, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:02 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.newyorker.com/online/2007/06/11/070611on_audio_danticat
― s.clover, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:07 (twelve years ago) link
ha! yeah, i totally see that. this was initially going to be a bit more bloggy "how to" but it needed to be angry instead of sarcastic
― max, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:14 (twelve years ago) link
wondering what % of those calls were irt the troubling presence of black youth
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:23 (twelve years ago) link