A thread for AMC's The Killing, a remake of much-lauded Danish drama "Forbrydelsen"

srsly thats what they did??? what!!

you crazy americans

Jesus, this show.

haha srsly? serves you right for not speaking danish.

I just gave up on all of the absurdities in the last episode: How can you threaten to tell the husband of the wife who had the affair with Richmond about the affair when it is on the front page of the newspaper and would also, presumably, be the lead story on the 5 o'clock news? Why didn't Bennett Ahmed's wife recognize the man who nearly beat her husband to death? Why did the hospital let Stan into Bennett's room in the first place?

I know the answer: Not to further the plot, just to churn up drama. Such poor, poor writing. I can imagine many people who haven't seen the Danish version would be hesitant to watch it based on this show. (raises hand)

yeah to all those points.

I was pretty positive about halfway through blonde campaign worker woman did this out of jealousy. In fact I was positive it would turn out to be her until the ending when it looked like cop dude got into a car with someone else because she was with coucilman guy (sorry I can't remember anyone's name on this).

I'll still watch this next year even though it is ridiculous. It's like the early years of 24 where I excuse all kinds of dumb shit because it's still entertaining.

"blonde campaign worker woman did this out of jealousy" = killed rosie, that is

heh, people are SO MAD about this, guys, i was telling you for MONTHS to just download the danish one, and no one listened, and now look at you

I actually don't care so much that we didn't learn the identity of the killer; I've gotten the impression that some people think that AMC/Veena Sud betrayed some implicit promise by not revealing it in the final episode. But the writing on this show is so frustratingly sloppy -- and, as righteoumalestrom points out, always in the service of big dramatic moments and confrontations, even when such scenes makes little realistic sense. I have to think that a lot of people who honestly like this show have been fooled by the show's production value, narrative device, and network imprimatur into thinking it's "quality TV."

I'm not mad about it, it's just tv. The writing is sloppy but I'm still interested enough for s2

think this is being trailed on ch4 at the moment - they are being very oblique about it with the ads just saying 'who killed ... larson'

I have to think that a lot of people who honestly like this show have been fooled by the show's production value, narrative device, and network imprimatur into thinking it's "quality TV."

― Don Rickles on the Dime (jaymc), Monday, June 20, 2011 11:39 AM (53 minutes ago) Bookmark

kind of feel this way about every AMC show, personally, they're all pretty flawed, usually from a plotting standpoint, imo

curious if all the plot holes or lapses of logic/realism are unique to this version of the show or if some of them were carried over from the Danish version

kind of feel this way about every AMC show, personally, they're all pretty flawed, usually from a plotting standpoint, imo

I've only seen four episodes of Breaking Bad, so I don't feel qualified to comment on it, but I definitely don't feel that way about Mad Men.

Mad Men has fewer plot problems than The Killing/Walking Dead/Breaking Bad/Rubicon, but i don't find the plots compelling (though i know i'm in the minority on that)

curious if all the plot holes or lapses of logic/realism are unique to this version of the show or if some of them were carried over from the Danish version

― ForbezDVDelsen (some dude), Monday, June 20, 2011 12:50 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

iirc there are a couple hanging threads and unexplained bits and a plot whole or two but nothing so big or annoying that the show becomes unconvincing. the danish show is great, it does get pretty nuts-in-a-bad-way toward the last 4-5 episodes (probably more annoying if you have to watch it 1 ep a week instead of all in a row) but the finale is super satisfying

the gambit of ending the season right in the middle of the original's season is pretty weird -- i wonder if this means season 2 is going to stretch out the last 6 episodes of the Danish 1st season, or divert more into new territory. or maybe they'll just adapt every season of the Danish version into two years worth of shows so that they never run out of source material?

danish first season is 20 episodes, so ending it right in the middle sorta makes sense

i sort of wanted the danish version to get even crazier, but you become attached to the main characters and that's enough to keep you watching even if it is a bit 'everyone's a suspect'.

it may be "right in the middle" but it's not a tidy halfway point -- AMC wouldn't do a 7-episode season, so it raises the question of whether they're going to have it be half the Larsen case and half introducing a new one, or resolving that one early and moving on, or stretching it out for another 13 episodes.

Veena Sud said, "I can tell you there will be a resolution to this investigation in season 2 and there will also be the emergence of another case in season 2, but I can't tell you specifically where either of those happen."

I'm not mad about it, it's just tv. The writing is sloppy but I'm still interested enough for s2
this!

also it makes me really sad to see my dear seattle depicted in such a dreary light. most of the city (and weather!) in this show don't seem anything like it, really. (probably because it wasn't filmed there, but it irks me that someone is continuing the old 'oh it's pouring rain all the time!' cliche).

Mad Men has fewer plot problems than The Killing/Walking Dead/Breaking Bad/Rubicon, but i don't find the plots compelling (though i know i'm in the minority on that)

i like 'mad men' v much but don't care about the plot tbh

Mad Men is a character study and plot is absolutely peripheral to the show, like Sopranos. Breaking Bad is much more of a mix of plot and character. Killing is all plot and could really use some more character.

point is AMC's whole "story matters here" marketing angle is kinda funny considering the storytelling problems their shows have almost across the board

Think Breaking Bad and Mad Men are pretty solid storytelling-wise, at least for their needs. I've got 5 episodes of The Killing left, and the storytelling is woeful (though it really is just as bad as the original).

A blog post by Myles McNutt about the The Killing's threat to AMC's brand.

haha that blog post points out this ridiculous NYT article 'about' the finale that went online before it aired and is clearly based only on last week's episode's "reveal" of the murderer:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/20/arts/television/the-killing-on-amc-solves-murder-in-season-finale.html?_r=2

not really sure what these massive Breaking Bad plot problems are supposed to be tbh

i griped about my numerous issues with season 2 on a BB thread, won't rehash them (also the show's creator has been pretty open about 'making it up as they go along,' which regardless of how you feel about the results kind of says something about the narrative vision of the show)

plz could one of you has also seen the original Forbrydelsen series simply let me know if The Killing follows the same plotline note for note? I have seen the first four or five eps, over the course of which it seemed esp. dutiful to Forb., but stopped & have not gotten back to it. I was thinking about catching up, but will prob not bother doing so if it is just basically hitting ALL the same plot points (suspects etc.) as the original. i have purposefully avoided web chatter on it in case it does go off on its own path & I might end up spoiling it for myself..

― Heady Snobbin (Pillbox), Thursday, June 16, 2011 8:37 PM (6 days ago) Bookmark

guess I know which way to go on this now..

It mostly just switches things around. We'll have to wait for next season to see how much it changes, though the last five minutes there is a pretty dramatic shift.

i think the thing that bugs me most is that some of the actors are so good that it seem skinda unfair to just keep loading them up with bad storytelling and char development.

i dunno if there's any way to communicate this without SPOILERZ or if it matters, but what part of the last 5 minutes is the dramatic change from the original?

yeah the cast is pretty solid -- and as i'm fond of saying, a show that has a good cast (and premise/aesthetic) in place from the jump but weak writing has a better chance of improving later on than vice versa.

i griped about my numerous issues with season 2 on a BB thread, won't rehash them (also the show's creator has been pretty open about 'making it up as they go along,' which regardless of how you feel about the results kind of says something about the narrative vision of the show)

If I recall correctly, S2 was meticulously planned, which actually resulted in some of the show's hokier moments. S3 was approached more loosely but I think they knew the major plot points they wanted to hit - I suspect Gilligan has overstated the degree to which they were improvising because it was such a marked contrast from the previous season.

On a related note, The individual-episode podcasts on the BB site are occasionally fascinating.

fair enough -- maybe the meticulously planned stuff was what felt tediously "edgy" or cornily comedic to me

yeah that season was going for a certain cinematic sweep I guess, but it didn't always click. still, coming off of a strike-shortened season is tricky so I give em props.

The Killing on the other hand I don't think I even made it through the pilot of.

omg lmao at that nyt article. so much RONG.

don't worry about SPOILERZ on my account. I was curious enough about the outrage over the finale that I read the breakdown of it on Vulture and also Sepinwall's take on it.

When the series started, I was intrigued enough to seek out the original series. All told, I'm glad I invested my time in that & not the remake. Sure, it had the unrelenting gloom & routine red herrings (& the build-up to the finale was a bit ridiculous iirc), but the sustained mood and excellent performances & writing made it compelling throughout & ultimately rewarding - tho I may have been more irked by the constant red herrings if I had to wait a week in b/w each episode, admittedly.

nyt is still standing by it too - http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/06/new_york_times_standing_by_its.html

i dunno if there's any way to communicate this without SPOILERZ or if it matters, but what part of the last 5 minutes is the dramatic change from the original?

SPOILERZZZ

no assassination attempt and the partner isn't setting up the politician.

END SPOILERZZZ

hah the follow-up article is equally as idiotic!

yeah that was an amazingly pathetic ass-covering attempt

NYT's TV coverage continues to be terrible. I guess they're too busy doing real reporting or some b.s.

I just read both NYT pieces. Ginia Bellefante should write for that show -- she has as much a grasp of logic and plotting as the current writers:

"And Richmond seems to have had many female companions in addition to his girlfriend, all of whom look like his ex-wife"

Gwen looks nothing like his dead wife and she was not an ex-wife. They were still married when she was killed.

not to mention that saying belko couldn't have lashed out to attack an innocent man because they'd already done that once... because you know, we haven't established that belko is crazy and does not follow normal person logic at ALL and the show NEVER deploys the same plot points twice!

That Myles McNutt piece linked upthread is a good read on why people are actually angry about The Killing. You can go to pretty much any network and watch a show as bad as The Killing, but AMC has worked so hard on their brand perception that you wouldn't expect to see a show of this quality aired there.

I mean I am one of the maybe five people who watched and enjoyed Rubicon and, for all of its faults, I even liked The Walking Dead and will watch it next season, but I think this may have been too much.

Both this show and Walking Dead are wasting a lot of really good performances on terrible scripts and scenarios, and a lot of nice visuals. It's infuriating.

i dunno about Walking Dead... can't say i thought much of the cast, or that it wasn't dumber than The Killing

I liked the cast a lot! I would almost tune in for Michael Rooker alone.