2008 Primaries Thread

her and Chris Matthews should have a lovechild

nauseating phrases of the moment ts

"i have so many opportunities for this country" vs "iron my shirt"

"i found my voice" vs "what is called sexism...i suppose"

trick question: all awful

no, she's totally right. Obama's cool (and his ironic sense, which boomers just don't understand at all) is a minus for him to some extent.

what he has to do is foreground the family more. a big part of his appeal is that - other than race - the family looks a lot like that of a lot of people who help decide elections.

also, I heard a Michelle speech the other day that was as thoughtful/"inspiring" as the ones he gives, if not more

Barack Obama is up against a lot of tropes

Different tropes for different folks?

you could say that O was raised in the suburban era, while C preceded it

I can't stand smarmy Peggy Noonan, but that middle paragraph -- and especially the line about Obama wears his "dignity like a cloak" -- makes a decent point. That jarring contrast between his elegant/dignified demeanor and how he appears when he drops his guard, even a little -- e.g., the "you're likable enough" line -- can turn people off faster than the same semi-flippant line from someone else, say George Bush. Also, Noonan's point isn't far off from the Yglesias post I linked to above, which I think nails one of Obama's biggest vulnerabilities.

I LOVED THAT LINE AND HIS DELIVERY. I'm convinced it's the pundits – who worry about such sorry minutiae years after we've forgotten, e.g. Reagan's "comeback" perf in the second '84 debate – who create this elitism, unless I'm underestimating American resistance to polish and irony.

rove is sorta otm about the trash-talking thing, tho - "you're likeable enough" is exactly the sort of thing dudes say to each other in locker rooms after a game. obama was just treating hillary like one of the boys. which is totally sexist, of course. not that most women have spent much time in guys' locker rooms.

i loved the line, too - it was grudgingly affectionate but perfectly expressed the notion that 'yeah, you're electable and would be an effective president, but we don't need you anymore'

dudes in a locker room slap each other's butts and scream "YOU KICKED ASS!"

I LOVED THAT LINE AND HIS DELIVERY. I'm convinced it's the pundits – who worry about such sorry minutiae years after we've forgotten, e.g. Reagan's "comeback" perf in the second '84 debate – who create this elitism, unless I'm underestimating American resistance to polish and irony.

I know you did. I didn't mind it, but I immediately thought it wouldn't play well. You are underestimating American resistance to polish and irony (at least with older voters). I think we had this discussion during the debate, just moments after he said it.

I guess I didn't attend the Michael Deaver-George Stephanopolous Graduate School of Semiotics.

I got my degree from their online university!

Reagan helped America resist the Polish Irony Curtain. Sorry.

The idea that anyone with the massive ego and calculation to join the modern presidential campaign circus (with its packaged evasions openly masquerading as "answers") isn't essentially cold makes me larf.

(no-hope idealists like Kucinich excepted obv)

anyone have any insight as to why CNN "unearthed" those ugly Ron Paul newsletters and asked him about them in the last couple days (as opposed to, say, almost a year ago when we were all discussing them?)

Won't the presidential candidates seek a private audience with Morbs?

xp: Giuliani paid them

CNNs crack team of investigative journalists dig up stuff that's been on the internet for years! way to go guys!

Drew Westen asks if Bush gave Hillary New Hampshire - http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=c9dee2e5-ab83-47c9-8d1c-8163177eb1d4

and now, some Roseanne v Oprahma fun!

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2008/01/rosanne-barrs-blog-disappears-after-she.html

Oprah, you play the race card and the gender card too.

You are a closeted republican and chose Barak Obama because you do not like other women who actually stand for something to working American Women besides glamour, angels, hollywood and dieting.

When Americans find out that Obama backs right wing corporate racist anti worker bullshit, they will not vote for him, and the victory will go to the most racist right wing republican ever.... Mccain, who is a fascist!

lolz. Barr is completely nuts btw (altho she made way more interesting TV viewing than Oprah)

jamie lee curtis @ huffpo on hillary almost as insipid as barr

let me guess -- pro?

Why is a woman's natural emotionality, as well as incredible sense and judgment and compassion and strength, a liability. None of you would be here were it not for a woman's strength -- you men try giving birth, something Mrs. Clinton has done. Most of all, don't we really want a president with a heart, a big, open, warm, loving, mother's heart to lead us out of this bleak despair, into the light of hope and peace.

she is so dismally off the mark i wish i could embed the foghorn sound here

holding to her argument, my mom would make the best president because she's given birth 7 times

I second that "emotionality"

(Jamie Lee might not be writing this if her intersexed status had been resolved differently)

wau

Drew Westen asks if Bush gave Hillary New Hampshire

sooo sick of NH conspiracy theory b.s. yes any election w/ a surprising outcome MUST HAVE BEEN STOLED OMG

It was refurbished.

oh I kinda misread his last paragraph

but still, did anyone here even know Bush made a speech that day

anne rice endorses hillary, struggles for relevance

God, I think I would start asking these people if they could please be quiet about the endorsements.

"If you have a social need, you're with Hillary. If you want Obama to be your imaginary hip black friend and you're young and you have no social needs, then he's cool."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2238148,00.html

and it's only gonna get nicer from this point forward.

anyone have any insight as to why CNN "unearthed" those ugly Ron Paul newsletters and asked him about them in the last couple days (as opposed to, say, almost a year ago when we were all discussing them?)

The New Republic just went back and got paper copies of even more damaging shit than what was previously known. Instead of two or three newsletters incidents, there's 20 years of racist/anti-Semitic/militia-nut goodness.

Ron Paul devolution.

for a second I thought that said the fr33 r3publ1c

Ron Paul may be a racist nut, but he does say some surprisingly reasonable things at times. Like this morning I heard him on the radio talking about how ludicrous the notion of a US Navy destroyer being threatened by a few Iranian speedboats is.

yeah, his turn on russert was hilarious!! competing forms of nutcasery + reasonableness, one alternating after the other.

uhhh - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cole_bombing

how ludicrous the notion of a US Navy destroyer being threatened by a few Iranian speedboats is.

uh USS Cole bombing yo

damn x-post

like, the earth isn't really threatened by global warming, just a few people on it

to at least be fair, a ship docked in a friendly port and a patrol off the coast of iran are slightly different situations. plus i doubt as "speedboats" a zodiac with a suicide bomb on it and a small, fast iranian vessel have much in common.

i mean, paul lives in a universe where most people think an IRGC flotilla is gonna speed up the charleston tomorrow if we don't kill everyone west of the river jordan

"If you have a social need, you're with Hillary. If you want Obama to be your imaginary hip black friend and you're young and you have no social needs, then he's cool."

This is the kind of talk that's going to shift the debate back to grounds on which Obama can win. It will be amazing if the tsunami of social forces that contributed to HRC's win in N.H. are repeated (but with respect to race, not gender), by her, to hand Obama the nomination.

Having said that, there's a ton of interesting stuff in that Guardian article that quote comes from (linked above).

In fact, HRC and her advisors have been making a lot of mistakes in the past few days when it comes to comments about race.

speaking of folx struggling for relevance:

"Oprah, you play the race card and the gender card too. You are a closeted Republican and chose Barak Obama because you do not like other women who actually stand for something to working American Women besides glamour, angels, hollywood and dieting! When Americans find out that Obama backs right wing corporate racist anti worker bullshit, they will not vote for him, and the victory will go to the most racist right wing republican ever.... Mccain, who is a fascist!" - Roseanne Barr.

from sullivans dish, but the link he had dint work. whatsup roseanne, where you bin?