White trick-or-treaters in blackface: C/D?

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dan go fuck yourself- i said nitsuh because comes in threads and sums up things with big paragraphs, not on some racial shit, you cant pretend i was saying i wanted a black person to agree with me because candice is already posting here
-- _ (...), November 1st, 2005 4:47 PM. (later) (link)

is it perfectly inoffensive to say that black people are predisposed to being able to write with big paragraphs?

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:51 (eighteen years ago) link

seriously dan you sure are coming with a lot of stupid, petty race-baiting for someone who believes that "we are all people and should be treated the same", especially towards someone you know genuinely likes and (usually) agrees with you

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:51 (eighteen years ago) link

dan go fuck yourself- i said nitsuh because comes in threads and sums up things with big paragraphs, not on some racial shit

Yeah, right.

― Dan (Like I Buy That) Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:51 (eighteen years ago) link

To be fair, I didn't consider the racial dimension to the Nitsuh mention until you brought it up, Dan.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:53 (eighteen years ago) link

there is the assumption that Nitsuh would agree, as well.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:54 (eighteen years ago) link

I read it the same way Dan did.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Are the Birmingham Black Barons playing in a new stadium with their cut?

the birmingham black barons became the birmingham barons, and are the AA affiliate of the chicago white sox (famously, you may remember michael jordan getting some at-bats as a baron). their stadium isn't incredibly old, i'm gonna guess it was built in '89 or '90? it's in hoover, tho.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:55 (eighteen years ago) link

i didnt even say just nitsuh i said "nitsuh or somebody" but yeah hes generally considered one of the most, if not THE most, reasonable person on ilx, who explains his arguments very thoroughly without specious logic or ad hominem attacks, and since i think he would agree with me in this case i would really like if him (or "somebody"!! stelfox!! candice!!!) would explain my argument better than i can

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:56 (eighteen years ago) link

do you even have an argument now that you finally got through your head what we were saying all along? aside from that nobody else on ILE gets racism?

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:58 (eighteen years ago) link

ned & dan let me get this straight, its racist to see white kids in black face and think of minstrelsy but not racist to see nitsuh's name and see him as "black" before you do as a logical thinker & explanatory writer????

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:59 (eighteen years ago) link

You're a dumbass.

― Dan (Excruciating Back Pain) Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:00 (eighteen years ago) link

ned & dan let me get this straight, its racist to see white kids in black face and think of minstrelsy

i'd like to reaffirm my "show your peers some respect or fuck off" stance.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:01 (eighteen years ago) link

when did i say nobody on ile "gets racism"? i said i cant believe im explaining imbalance of power to people like you and ally, which i cant, but plenty of people on this thread seem to understand and really i know yall do too youre just being assholes and pretending that theres no racist context for blackface and white people doing shit to black people means the same thing as black people doing shit to white people as long as it makes a good halloween costume

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:01 (eighteen years ago) link

miccio thats exactly what dan said upthread

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:02 (eighteen years ago) link

roflmao

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:03 (eighteen years ago) link

really if theres anybody out there who thinks it would be racist to wish for a big 3 paragraph nitsuh post right now to end the thread theyre insane

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:04 (eighteen years ago) link

there's a quicker way to end this thread.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:06 (eighteen years ago) link

ethan I'm going to stop debating with you because you're continually and pathologically warping the positions of other people on this thread, including myself ("pretending that theres no racist context for blackface"? "white people doing shit to black people means the same thing as black people doing shit to white people as long as it makes a good halloween costume"? wtf?). the self-pity inherent in your nitsuh comment only makes this more annoying.

and I'd appreciate a cut'n'paste of dan's comment that thinking of minstresly when seeing a kid in blackface is racist, as I can't seem to find it.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:07 (eighteen years ago) link

xpost "more reading less typing"

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Exactly what does that say about how you view people like Ben Wallace that that was your first reaction to seeing the child? In my mind, this is the racist liberal issue rearing its ugly head again.

-- Dan (Excruciating Back Pain) Perry (djperr...), November 1st, 2005.

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:09 (eighteen years ago) link

[For the record, the kids last night were either wearing shoe polish or something that looked exactly like shoe polish.]

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:10 (eighteen years ago) link

Can we ban ethan?

― jdubz (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:11 (eighteen years ago) link

so are you agreeing that this kind of projection and generalisation is wrong?

xxpost

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:11 (eighteen years ago) link

ok, wait, I found it. I don't think there's anything racist about the concept of minstrelsy coming to mind when encountering blackface. it's a logical mental connection based on American culture.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:11 (eighteen years ago) link

"white people doing shit to black people means the same thing as black people doing shit to white people as long as it makes a good halloween costume"? = Or do white people have to dress as white people, blacks as blacks, men as men, women as women, etc etc etc? I don't see anything wrong with a totally innocent Halloween costume.

"pretending that theres no racist context for blackface" = You haven't explained how a kid dressing up as his favorite athlete is racism in any way, still.

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:12 (eighteen years ago) link

really fuck this alex in nyc said the kids deserve to get beat up, i just said it was offensive!!

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:13 (eighteen years ago) link

ethan, why is wearing a wig to go in costume as a person with actual long hair, be it a fro or whatever, a bad thing? Are you saying that it is unacceptable to go in costume as Ben Wallace on all levels?

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:13 (eighteen years ago) link

also livin in athens (most racist spot in GA that dont know its racist) the college guy "pimp" costume went real strong every year, no blackface (usually) but always in that damn afro wig, its gettin hard to remember that before it got neutered by ironic white assholes and vh1 pop culture that growin your nappy hair out was actually a controversial act at one time
-- _ (...), November 1st, 2005.

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:14 (eighteen years ago) link

i dont think its automatically racist but i think rich white dudes from all-white frats in "hilarious" afro wigs trivializes what was once a specific political act, in the same way the kill whitie club does

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:15 (eighteen years ago) link

Alex in NYC believes everyone should be beat up, including people he agrees with, we're totally used to him saying people should be flayed alive at this point!

xpost wearing a freaking miniskirt was a controversial act at one time. Also there are plenty of white people and jewish people with "nappy hair," labelling them as assholes for choosing a hairstyle is a little odd. Please explain to me how someone can go in costume as Ben Wallace without sporting a wig.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:15 (eighteen years ago) link

those equal signs are a little shady, ethan, but everybody's double-backing all over the place and getting seriously testy so I'm going to stop telling you to fuck off. whatever argument here is basically based on semantics and personalities rubbing the wrong way.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:16 (eighteen years ago) link

Okay, new topic momentarily: I know I might be the crazy one, here, but it seems to me an awful lot of people have NO IDEA what the historical/racial implications of blackface/minstrelsy ARE. There's been some passing reference on-thread to "ignorance" and etc but I would bet that some ridiculously high percentage of the gen pop falls into the Ignorant category.

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:16 (eighteen years ago) link

what about a dylan '66 costume?

― strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:17 (eighteen years ago) link

and i realize that an 8 yr old wearing an afro wig to look like ben wallace is not the same thing as that, which i would be alot more likely to condone and maybe even laugh about!! but the whole issue is shaky and contexual and im not going to come out in favor of all white people wearing afro wigs for imitative purposes

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:17 (eighteen years ago) link

I noticed this too, Laurel.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:18 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.interactivelearningservice.com/media/jop_thumb.jpg

xpost Ethan no one is condoning all people ever doing things for imitative purposes, is the thing here. I mean you just said you would maybe even laugh at a kid dressed up like that and I'd bet you wouldn't assume it was racism rearing its ugly head.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:19 (eighteen years ago) link

y'know, it was only a year ago when there was that big pacers/pistons rumble at auburn hills.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:19 (eighteen years ago) link

but given the context of this happening in detroit, if the kid wanted to be a black basketball-playin' villain he'd have gone as ron artest, i suppose.

WHERE IS DAVID STERN TO MAKE SURE THE BAD BLACK BALLPLAYERS WEAR SUITS?!????!?

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:21 (eighteen years ago) link

For the record, the kids last night were either wearing shoe polish or something that looked exactly like shoe polish.
I would've gone to talk to their parents. For real.

I find the rasta cap wig thing really offensive. Especially since it's usually paired with the "irie, mon. watch me smoke my big spliff" mock patois. I gave a lot of evil looks over that at the Halloween party at was at over the weekend. Kids, adults, whoever need to be confronted and set straight on that shit a lot more often.

xpost And the "jewfro" = an afro wig is totally ridiculous.

― Candicissima (candicissima), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:22 (eighteen years ago) link

how come you can take alex in nyc threatening to beat down some lil kids as some excusable personality quirk but me being offended by subliminal or unintentional racism is a big THOU-SHALT-NOT-PASS moment??? i think i got off easier than this when i made the blatantly idiotic statement that anybody who hated puff daddy was a racist

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:23 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah i was gonna bring up the fake dreads/rastafarian cap thing in this thread but then everybody got all pissy

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:23 (eighteen years ago) link

I agree completely with Ethan. Secondly, as if there's no other options for this kid? I don't understand how his parents didn't stop this. As if this is the only thing he could dress up as. He (or his parents) might not be racist, he's dragging out something out of history that shouldn't be used as entertainment. Also, why shouldn't Ethan be entitled to speak about/defend his point of view because he isn't african-american?!?

― nathalie, a bum like you (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Would it be racially insensitive of me to dress up as Judge Samuel Alito? Because Italian-Americans are an ethnic minority, right Ethan?

― elmo (allocryptic), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:25 (eighteen years ago) link

this thread really is quite baffling.
i really want to go for dinner with a bunch of ile people sometime. i can just see it now: all the white people dressed up as lil jon (maybe a couple of hitlers for good measure), laughing at the wait staff because they're in low-paid work and thus chav who deserve it, each with calculator totting up their exact share of the bill.
lovely.

― sfxxxx, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:25 (eighteen years ago) link

I gave a lot of evil looks over that at the Halloween party at was at over the weekend

were you dressed up as .. evil?

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:25 (eighteen years ago) link

ts: comically overstated misanthropy vs. noblesse oblige

― strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:26 (eighteen years ago) link

were you dressed up as .. evil?

No, I was Sarah Dash from Labelle. I'm naturally evil.

― Candicissima (candicissima), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:26 (eighteen years ago) link

i think i got off easier than this when i made the blatantly idiotic statement that anybody who hated puff daddy was a racist

well I mean that's true.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:27 (eighteen years ago) link

(also let's remember that minstrelsy was NOT, though it's usually parsed this way, a wholly intentional malevolent white-on-black social subjugation for entertainment purposes. there were tremendously complex internal race politics at work and a lot of black minstrels who profited from the enterprise. also a lot of (dumb) northerners were exposed to "negro culture" (though really a white, bastardized, horrifically offensive facimile of this) for the first time through minstrelsy and often spent years under the naive but not mean-spirited misapprehension that 'this' was what 'dem negroes' wuz really like.)

cf. the miasppropriation of Joel Chandler Harris, etc.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:27 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.mtv.com/news/images/n/newrads990519.gif

YOU GET WHAT YOU GIVE

AHHHHHHHH

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:28 (eighteen years ago) link

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