Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

I was kind of convinced for a while the Dreamlord was Cyril out of 'The Celestial Toymaker' when he was doing the whole "you know who I am" thing, because the guy was playing it just like him. Although there were a fair few similarities between him and the Toymaker anyway.

Also, isn't "all the dark bits of The Doctor's personality" actually... erm... The Valeyard?

I did enjoy it though, even if it felt like it was trying to be a sitcom more.

Missed a great phantom pregnancy joke opportunity.

weirdly, amy's dialogue when rory died was practically word-for-word what gwen said when rhys died in the S1 finale of torchwood. they edited out the swears, though.

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l2i1pewrsm1qbypg1o1_500.jpg

Dream Lord, huh? Was that some subtle call-out to Gaiman, then?

It reminded me of the despair squid episode of Red Dwarf.

I had it down as 'Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind... In Space!'

liked this, dug the concept and character development stuff. laughed a little bit at geriatric zombie menace. it's weird how though the plots for this one and last week aren't as good as the previous stories, it seems like Smith has gotten more room to stretch his legs because they're a little less plot-heavy - i really liked his performance in this one

loved that goofy "my poncho boys!" bit, seemed improvised

weirdly, amy's dialogue when rory died was practically word-for-word what gwen said when rhys died in the S1 finale of torchwood

Gwen also had a non-pregnancy in Torchwood. I get a bit fed up with the amazing companion girls having dorky boyfriends who are blatantly written as undeserving of them and their amazingness then they have some big epiphany and realise that dorky boyfriend is actually ace (Rose/Mickey, Gwen/Rhys, now Amy/Rory). Also "I never told him I loved him" fuck off you big idiot, you've been married to him for five years and are having his baby, of course you've told him you love him. Haven't you? (yes, I know it was a dream, but she thought it was real)

Thought Rory was showing some spine in parts of this one tho, which I agree is a good thing. Can't really work out what I thought about this, I think I'm with Nhex - I really liked MS's performance in this one, but the two plots felt like a couple of half-baked ideas, not-quite-stories, yoked together for the purpose of the concept (which was great - as was the character of the Dream Lord).

It was pretty dark as well - The Doctor says the Dream Lord is the person he hates most in the Universe, doesn't he? Sounds like post-Tennant guilt. The whole self-accusatory stuff was nicely near to the bone as well.

It also got rid of the whole Doctor/Rory thing with them sniping at each other about Amy quite nicely, and junked any doubts about Doctor/Amy relationship, which I think is entirely a good thing. So on the whole a plus. And I don't really worry about these episodes not advancing things much - a lot of my favourites aren't really series advancers - Blink, gas mask one, Midnight, er, others. I quite like stand alone stories in fact, although I don't think either of the last two were particularly amazing.

And I don't really worry about these episodes not advancing things much

With you on that - I didn't give a shit about advancing things and big story arcs in the old (Tom Baker) days and my kids don't care now, they just want more episodes (though of course they like the wee hints that e.g. The Master's coming or Rose might come back or w/e).

Assuming Doctor Who is back to stay and will be around for years I'm happy for them to throw in loads of one off short stories or two part big monster things that don't necessarily have to have Bad Wolf or Dum-Dum-Dum-Dum or Oh Look It's The SAME Crack Do You See? leads stamped all over them.

Yeah WTF this was great, really drilled into the motivations behind the two main characters. The old people attacking were supposed to be a bit rubbish, I thought, although anything that allows you to get away with hitting an old woman in the face with a bit of wood on prime time TV is good with me.

The dark stuff was really great, the self-loathing Doctor is something they're going to run with, I think. It reminded me mostly of Turn Left, but internalised, about how the characters saw themselves rather than the future of the universe at stake.

Good underlining of Moffat's fairytale voibe as well, Doctor as Peter Pan figure preventing people from growing up.

There's that, and there's also the idea that in this episode, the Doctor's cracked. So no searches on walls etc. this time.

"And it was all a dream" used to get you marked down at school.

Dunno, it was established that some of it was a dream at the start, so the ending didn't bother me, especially as it turned out that they were all bad tripping on the Doctor's fucked up space acid.

Matt Smith is getting really good, isn't he?

Another fun episode, but I'm still finding the characters slightly aloof. I don't miss the emo broad-brush-strokes of the RTD era, but there's a certain emotional connection to the show that I'm missing this season, even if the show itself is actually much improved.

Really liked that! Didn't mind "oh, it was all a dream" seeing as we were forewarned but the space seeds did feel kind of a copout. But I liked the way the trailer last week showing what I thought was real life, Earth, circa Amy's time got me thinking this was the episode to explain everything, and in fact it was an episode which didn't explain any plot arcs outside the episode at all

also I liked that things the dark side of the Doctor dwells on clearly include mullets

(though yes, it was a bit despair squid - and the piles of dust on the playing field got me thinking of the first episode of Red Dwarf, where Lister asks "where is everyone, Holly? and what's this white powder I'm eating?")

So are the reptile fellas next week going to turn out to be Silurians?

Also made me think of when people got transmatted off the GameStation by the Daleks in the Ecclescake series.

xpost

they are indeed Silurians chap (not much of a spoiler considering the thread title)

loved Toby Jones in this. still don't know about Rory/Amy but the whole 'night before wedding' thing does keep them and their plight interesting.

in the Venice episode the boss lady tells the Doctor to dream about them. In the next episode he does dream about another alien race in the same boat as the not-vampire fish - presumably because of being haunted by the decision to not help the last lot. but not sure if the eye-in-mouth aliens are meant to be a real thing or the Doctor just invented them for the purpose of the dream.

Yep, I wondered about that - yet another race chased out of their home by 'the silence' or just a dream of a race caused by the previous one? And yes, also thought Toby Jones was great; very entertaining.

There has got to be more of him for later. Totally Valeyard, but I've never known a Scottish writer not to mess with jekyllandhyde, given the opportunity.

Can I just reiterate how shockingly ITSY BITSY TEENY WEENY Toby Jones is? Like under five feet tall.

Matt Smith is getting really good, isn't he?

Agreed! Where Tennant's Doctor was all face-pulling and quirky tics, MS is mostly an unaffected, average guy who just happens to have a time machine.

Loved the pensioner-aliens. Come on, perfect way to drag in awesome Night Of The Living Dead moments (trapped in a house much? Lol)...and Invasion of the Body Snatcherz. Loved the dreamlord's snarkiness. Good ep, though the explanation was a little daft

<3 the eggbeater/wine-opener thing...such a good effects throwback

Huge fan, too, of the evil British Truman Capote dude. He reminded me of Q from Star Trek: TNG. I don't think anything has been better as a grown up for reliving 'scared of TV' kid-type intense feelings/nostalgia as this season of Doctor Who.

He reminded me of Q from Star Trek: TNG.

YES!

He totally reminds me of The Brain:
http://www.stuffwelike.com/stuffwelike/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/pinky_and_the_brain.jpg

I would just like to say that this was, as I think the expression goes, BLUDDY BRILLIANT. One of my favorite episodes ever.

Karen Gillan is still the weak link.

That was great, I was getting ready to be outraged by the "but its was only a dream cop out" but then I was saved from that. I didn't notice a crack anywhere which leads me to wonder if we aren't still inside the Doctor's head. Have we always been inside the Doctor's head and these are just the mad dreams of McCoy's Doctor?

I did post that I thought this episode showed us the crack in the Doctor, instead of one in some nearby wall.

no crack in Venice either - the Angels have temporarily nipped it in the bud.

Or Rory is like grout.

Pasty and somewhat thick.

His Lyndhurst vibe is a bit distracting.

The crack in Venice was shown when the sun came out at the end, following the line of a receding cloud. And then came the timey-wimey mute button and the Tardis keyhole that looked like the crack on its side.

I get a bit fed up with the amazing companion girls having dorky boyfriends who are blatantly written as undeserving of them and their amazingness then they have some big epiphany and realise that dorky boyfriend is actually ace (Rose/Mickey, Gwen/Rhys, now Amy/Rory). Also "I never told him I loved him" fuck off you big idiot, you've been married to him for five years and are having his baby, of course you've told him you love him. Haven't you? (yes, I know it was a dream, but she thought it was real)

This is OTM. I desperately want to chalk this all up to the fact that it has to do with Amy Pond, who is played by Karen Gillan, but it's all in the script, isn't it.

Don't get your Karen/Amy hate. She's been less annoying than previous companions so far.

She does this very self-conscious pout thing that is a dead ringer for every vapid Facebook photo ever. It drives me up the wall. Happy to accept that this is my own personal thing.

No, I don't like her either.

I do like her, I just don't like the amazing girl/dorky boy meme.

I never thought Mickey was dorky but Rory definitely is. If Amy really does end up marrying him it will be a bit sad.

Mickey was quite cowardly but became brave. Rory can at least score points with medical knowledge - when the sonic screwdriver isn't healing wounds in seconds. I was hoping they'd be able to explore Amy's former 'craziness' more wrt Doctor obsession when younger. Possibly the crack in her wall came because of her subsequent contact with the Doctor - the cracks latching on to Timelord energy (he could be causing the cracks both after and before he appears at the same location). Paradox tho innit.

She does this very self-conscious pout thing that is a dead ringer for every vapid Facebook

Yeah, but this is what makes her realistically of her generation. 20ish girls just do that now, don't they? I see them doing it on trains and things.

Trying to decide whether I should watch/rewatch all the silurain/sea devil stories this week in preparation for next week's episode. Tried watching the Pertwee silurian story a couple of months back and got bored about two episodes in (it's a six parter).

oh that story goes on for days and days

you are better off watching "The Sea Devils"; it's shorter, has more action and features the Master

I couldn't sit through Silurians either. Sea Devils ain't bad, though certainly not one of Pertwee's best. I bloody loved Warriors of the Deep when it first aired, I must've been six or seven. I haven't watched it since, but I understand it has a reputation as being particularly risible.

Yeah, have seen and liked Sea Devils, will probably give that another spin. And yep, I should give Warriors of the Deep a chance too.

"Warriors of the Deep" is let down by some terrible, terrible production values and acting, but if you get past that it is a really shocking, brutal story and forecasts Tegan's departure pretty well; in fact, looking at that season, you have this really amazing arc where the stories kind of escalate to "Resurrection of the Daleks" and Tegan's freakout makes total since, given that she'd just recently seen:

- one of her (admittedly hyper-annoying) friends die
- another one of her friends almost die, leading to her deciding to leave the TARDIS
- a total frenemy join the crew who spends most of his time running away from things and advocating that they let the Doctor die (btw this is one of the greatest/funniest things about "Warriors of the Deep"; I think Turlough shouts "Leave him, Tegan! He's dead!" about the Doctor like 5 times in a 4 episode story)
- a series of adventures where either everyone around her gets slaughtered or people from her childhood are threatened

No matter how silly some of the stories are, there is a grim, relentless pace from that season ("Warriors of the Deep", "The Awakening", "Frontios", "Resurrection of the Daleks", "Planet of Fire", The Caves of Androzani") that I still remember as breathtaking whenever I think back on it.

But yeah, "Warriors" is super-goofy at the end of the day. If you aren't laughing at the Myrka, you're doing it wrong.

a total frenemy join the crew who spends most of his time running away from things and advocating that they let the Doctor die (btw this is one of the greatest/funniest things about "Warriors of the Deep"; I think Turlough shouts "Leave him, Tegan! He's dead!" about the Doctor like 5 times in a 4 episode story)

This is why I heart Turlough.

I've said this before but Tegan and Turlough are two of my favorite companions of all time.

They really are great, and just on an aesthetic level Tegan's 80s hair and clothes have brought me many lulz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbOQ8kRcFxs&feature=related

i looked up that song and apparently it was the theme song for one of those Flavor of Love spinoff reality shows? catchy tho

i probably need to see more but i didn't really like the one or two Davison stories I saw, didn't warm to those two companions