Food in whose name the worst atrocities have been committed

it's definitely kind of a show me, don't tell me proposition--if some v. traditional preparation or whatever is realize awesome, then i'll enjoy myself! but being like "oh that's how they do it in whatever section of spain" gets a big don't give a fuck from me.

*really awesome

I guess for me, I've spent enough of my life being fetishized as an example of The Curious Other that someone coming up to me and asking "so how are you supposed to eat clam chowder" is going to get a curt "with a spoon you fucking dumbass" response and I presume that other people feel the same way, ergo unless someone is offering advice on how to eat/prepare a dish or I am genuinely baffled by my meal (like for example, was I supposed to eat the crispy head of the toasted fish I was served in Japan? I don't know but I did and it was yummy), I'm going to shut the fuck up and eat.

Places with deeper roots than we have in America tend to be very regionalistic. If you want flammkucher in Nice, both the Alsatians and the Provençals would look at you funny. Sure, you can get currywurst in Frankfort or Philly cheese sandwiches in SF, and they might be both delicious and 'not authentic' but Berlin and Philly do have a kind of right to claim them. Just like French bread in SF is distinctly not French but it's very SF, regardless of the name.

i mean they can claim them all they want, and they should! but i just don't think most people are going to be worried about that stuff most of the time when they just want something good to eat. and i don't think there's anything wrong with that.

"yum, this food is enjoyable. and yet i don't care about the socio-historic conditions in which it was prepared."

It's a fool's errand to fetishize something as basic as eating good food, but why NOT explore if that's your bag. It is mine, so what's the problem. Eat what you want and let me have my way of eating.

hope there's food left for you by the time you finish exploring, because the rest of us can be some hungry motherfuckers

i'm not saying you have to agree with me Michael--I was merely stating my position, just as you have stated yours.

it's funny because in a sense i'm pro-consumerism in that it's hilarious, but foodieism is conspicuous consumption masquerading as something else and it disgusts me.

no one on here is being a foodie jerk, obv.

I am not claiming that I am not a bit odd, btw, but it's how I found out about other culture and foods and I came from a really bland background.

i'm also sensitive to the fact that if i spent a lot of time in another country i would probably end up sharing their thoughts on these issues, but right now i just can't.

i agree w/ michael btw but i still think equating authenticity with quality is fuccin dum

I think that, to go by your example, knowing that the best cheesesteaks come from Philly doesn't make every other cheesesteak from everywhere else gross and inedible be definition, and that is why that particular brand of authenticity-hunting is a total non-starter for me.

I don't really care about the socio-historic conditions of the cafeteria corndogs I've eaten, but I'm pretty sure an investigation into that will reveal why they taste so gross compared to "authentic" corndogs.

I feel I owe to a culture to not just love pizza but find out how they eat pizza, maybe at what season, amongst what class of people, on what occasion, with what other dishes and what drinks. It's okay to be a dilletante, I guess, but why NOT explore further?

i don't get how that is any less dilettantish than not 'exploring further'? you can know a bunch of things about the archetypal way of enjoying pizza, you can probably perform a reasonable approximation of how-the-archetype-eats-pizza, but it'd still be a performance of how a partly-imaginary cultural archetype does a thing. Loving pizza as part of your own life seems less dilettantish to me.

xposts

cafeteria corn dogs can be awesome

As I said above, I'm totally down w/experience as experience. When I was in Vienna a couple of years ago with a Bosnian refugee ex-pat who had spent some time in Israel, he took my gf and me to a shawerma place run by a grumpy old Israeli that was so good we went back and ate dinner there a few night later since we couldn't get the taste out of our minds.

also i would venture a guess that there's a huge overlap problem re: "authenticity" and "fresh, high-quality, non-processed ingredients" in how ppl talk about this stuff

Sometimes the authentic version of a food is very, very different than the popularized version of it, and whether the original is better or not, it's fair to say that you haven't really tried some food if you haven't had the authentic version.

"cafeteria corn dogs can be awesome"

only as a weapon!

Sometimes the authentic version of a food is very, very different than the popularized version of it, and whether the original is better or not, it's fair to say that you haven't really tried some food if you haven't had the authentic version.

agreed.

yeah, I think a good point is that people who fetishize authenticity in cultures other than their own (no one itt as far as I can tell) are trying to borrow something "authentic" for their own lives, to "ground" themselves somehow. It's not really about how good things taste.

lords of hyrule, let's just say that if you're Italian and I take you to your first baseball game, you're going to be invited to have a dog, maybe some peanuts, I'll encourage you to get up during the 7th inning stretch, etc...

People like sharing their culture, especially what they prize about it, and I feel cussed not trying that, especially as an American.

fyi lords of hyrule, if you are Italian and I take you to your first baseball game, I am clearly suffering from a fever and should be rushed to the hospital because I hate baseball

I also feel that American food has been degraded by a nexus of govmt and industry over a very long period and many of the dishes that were brought here by immigrants were not only looked down upon for awhile but also had to be made with increasingly worse ingredients. When I look at the glowing future the 50's in America saw in white bread, TV dinners and frozen food, I shudder.

I admit to living as you describe, Monsieur White, but I admit it's because I don't have much in my own background to be crowded out; or else I feel like the other things have plenty of space for growth or change. Plus I think it's really fun to know a lot about other cultures and food is great and so why not learn a lot about other culture's foods? I guess I'm kinda the same with music: I want great tunes but I also want to see the world through other people's eyes.

sure, michael but who's to say that's a more authentic american experience than eating a chicken parm sub at a pizza joint and then going bowling? the problem isn't the experience, it's the idea that a single experience can be singularly "authentic."

authentic hyrule never has italians in it.

you know, i have only seen baseball in Japan, and i dunno if that was "authentic" baseball or what but it was certainly an experience.

Sometimes the authentic version of a food is very, very different than the popularized version of it,

For this, I spent an entire day miserably under criticism for not knowing what an "authentic" Balkan moussaka was.

sure, michael but who's to say that's a more authentic american experience than eating a chicken parm sub at a pizza joint and then going bowling?

I'm down with that. I might not like it but I'll fucking try. It might just be an authentic Mr. Que esperience but I'll assume that you live here, you know what you like and it's good and fun.

ctrl-f "any food that has been discussed on ilx"

What we should do a thread on is 'inauthentic food' that we prefer.

Sometimes the authentic version of a food is very, very different than the popularized version of it, and whether the original is better or not, it's fair to say that you haven't really tried some food if you haven't had the authentic version.

does the converse of this apply - are there things where you have to try the popularized version to say that you really know that food?

i was just thinking- i don't know if authentic/inauthentic applies here, but i went for dim sum with some friends the other day and they were raving about the steamed char siu buns so i took them round the corner straight after to get baked char siu buns just for, you know, balance.

Actually that kind of seems like you wanted to show them that you knew better than they did, and it cuts down the thing they were so excited about. "You think those are good? Let ME show YOU..."

What we should do a thread on is 'inauthentic food' that we prefer.

Taco Bell and White Castle for-fucking-ever (until my digestive system explodes)

One thing I know I don't want when I'm abroad is for someone to take me to Burger King or Shakey's Pizza 'cause that's my 'home culture'.

Ha ha, that's awesome, hyrule. Which did they prefer?

also I like McDonald's and Burger King hamburgers more than almost any type of restaurant/boutique-style burger you can name

and when I am in a foreign country, I never ever want to eat at American restaurants because that is not why I'm there

Yeah but laurel that could also be construed as a good thing.

why not just eat food and enjoy how it tastes

― Mr. Que, Thursday, March 25, 2010 2:56 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

"yum, this food is enjoyable. and yet i don't care about the socio-historic conditions in which it was prepared."

― Mr. Que, Thursday, March 25, 2010 2:57 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

That's totally fine, dude. In turn, why do you have an issue with people who view food differently? Yes, people can be pretentious d-bags about it, but that doesn't mean you have to summarily reject anyone with a similar viewpoint.

i agree w/ michael btw but i still think equating authenticity with quality is fuccin dum

Agree with this, too. Maybe you should wait til someone, y'know, actually does this before twisting of the panties commences?

Dan, I kind of can't eat BK and McD's 'cause of all the salt, plus I'm a mustard not a ketchup freak, but w/o a doubt my favorite burger memories are all at someone's home or at bbqs.

many xposts:

In Philadelphia, cheese steaks can have Cheese Whiz or provolone cheese on them. It varies from vendor to vendor. I prefer provolone, personally, although I would not turn down a cheese steak with Whiz if somebody were to bring one to me here in Chicago.

i do prefer the baked ones and i am kind of a dick, so you're probably right, Laurel. :/

Michael: i think the balance fell on the side of steamed buns? more buns for me~.

In turn, why do you have an issue with people who view food differently? Yes, people can be pretentious d-bags about it, but that doesn't mean you have to summarily reject anyone with a similar viewpoint.

i don't feel like i've "rejected" anyone with a similar viewpoint, and if i did, that was not my intention. just stating my preferences.

I am fully mindful of the thing that Shasta was pointing out above, too, that cuisines evolve and you can't step in the same river twice, blah, blah, blah. The champagne that made the Widow Clicquot famous and rich was way too sweet for my taste but they loved it in the early 19th century.

hey max did you know mexican is really a FUSION CUISINE????

Does anyone whose had both prefer the "good-for-you" veggie-oil McDonald's fries to the lard ones?

oops, who the hell are you arguing with? your shadow?

It's not cheese whize and I will admit to being a kind of cheese snob but there's a bar I used to go to that served that Cracker Barrel soft cheddary shit, God knows what it's called and I used to eat that with Ritz crackers and exult. Last night my very foody gf and neighbor made old school tacos and loved them not just for nostalgic reasons; crispy taco shells, shredded iceberg, ground beef, grated cheddar, taco sauce, diced tomato, black olives, etc... It was authentic, old school, White-people tacos.