Talking in a non-dickish way about the AC Transit fight

So many white people seem to see this as "Thank god an innocent, harmless white person finally stood up to menacing crazy black people" - as though they perceive themselves as under constant siege from black people. (That in itself I would guess is largely a result of media rather than experience).

^^^ The thing giving me the most pause out of the whole several threads re this incident.

is public transportation in oakland that much worse than in nyc in terms of public safety? genuine question

do cops bring assault rifles onto buses in NY? cuz I have seen this happen on AC Transit

Laurel's got a good point. Once it ceases to be white/black, and let's put ourselves in the shoes of a middle-aged black lady, it's just about whatever out-of-control asshole is going to ruin your commute today.

is public transportation in oakland that much worse than in nyc in terms of public safety? genuine question

I haven't really spent too much time in the in the bronx or east brooklyn, but I tend to feel safer on nyc transit than east bay (or sf) transit - even in nice parts of the bay area the transit is surprisingly sketch

I feel plenty safe on SF transit now that I don't ride the 9 anymore - but even on that nothing really bad happened to me, per se. I did witness some sketchy shit.

I don't even know what my point is! But that point is making me think baot some things.

primarily involving people off their meds + teenagers

x-post

this is partly due to way more middle-class people owning cars in the bay area xp to myself

My buses/trains are mostly fine, 6, 71, MUNI to Church but I feel safer in NYC, even late at night.

"In fairness, one can be beaten up once and that would be "enough times""

This is Tuomas we're talking about here.

― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 4:51 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

That's a little not-non-dickish

Did NYC pass a watershed moment when it became "sometimes sketch, mostly adequate" sometime during the Giuliani administration? I have heard stories about sitting next to someone who was knifed silently on the train and the attacker walked off at the next stop and no one noticed until the train lurched and the victim fell over. That was one generation ago (happened to my aunt) and seems like a movie about New York, to me.

Then again, someone in my social cohort was shot at on the G train in mid-Brooklyn back in the mid-'90s.

http://newcentrist.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/goetz-cover.jpg

My aunt lived in NYC in the 70's and it sounded genuinely terrifying. Post Giuliani NYC does have a rep for being safer but also for being duller. Take your pick, I guess. I thought most crime stats boiled down to demographics in the end.

I guess that was a dumb question, huh.

ive never felt threatened on buses or trains in nyc, knock wood

I have actually been threatened by someone on a train in NYC but it was at rush hour so it wasn't all that dangerous but was purely for intimidation/point-scoring.

but as MTA starts getting shittier and shittier and more and more ppl abandon it i imagine it will get sketchier and sketchier. right now even at weird hours im rarely the only person in the subway station or on the train.

I see WAY more cops in nyc than I do in sf/east bay

http://chasness.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/death_wish.jpg

You're commute sounds heroic, iatee

luckily nypd is stopping and searching more and more black people every year, for your safety

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/stop_frisk_record_voNoD2KGtU2a2otqGTPgDO

ya I wish they would just merge bart and mta :(

Once someone takes a swing at you and you decide to fight back, that's no time to start pulling your punches or worrying about 'going overboard' - you fight until the other guy no longer poses a threat.

― FIST FIGHT! FIST FIGHT! FIST FIGHT IN THE PARKING LOT! (milo z), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:55 PM (1 hour ago)

is this what you really believe?

I see WAY more cops in nyc than I do in sf/east bay

given the remarkably assholish track record of both SF and Oakland's PDs I'm not sure I really wanna see any more cops on Muni tbh. Like Mike White, I kinda wish the general populace was a little more assertive about (non-violently) policing themselves...

Bra Matt
Bar Matt
Brat Tam
Brat Mat
Bat Mart
Bat Tram
Tab Mart
Tab Tram

Not so promising

sorry i know it's been an hour and a half or whatever but damn

I don't think you can afford to get into fights if that isn't what you believe! Starting fights without having the will to finish them seems like the definition of getting your ass beat a lot.

I'm agnostic about SFPD on MUNI. Not agnostic about OPD, Shakey.

i get what milo is saying but he probably could have phrased it in a way that didnt make him sound like such an aggro hardman

Once someone takes a swing at you and you decide to fight back, that's no time to start pulling your punches or worrying about 'going overboard' - you fight until the other guy no longer poses a threat.

― FIST FIGHT! FIST FIGHT! FIST FIGHT IN THE PARKING LOT! (milo z), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:55 PM (1 hour ago)

is this what you really believe?

― vag gangsta (k3vin k.), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 4:17 PM (57 seconds ago)

I haven't been in a fight since 9th grade and it seems like sound reasoning to me.

when i lived in SF in 2004 i took MUNI a lot and never really felt threatened, unless im not remembering well. but i also wasnt out until weird hours of the morning

Starting fights without having the will to finish them seems like the definition of getting your ass beat a lot.

^^^, with the caveat of also including not knowing when to flee/avoid fights where you cannot/will not prevail

given the remarkably assholish track record of both SF and Oakland's PDs I'm not sure I really wanna see any more cops on Muni tbh. Like Mike White, I kinda wish the general populace was a little more assertive about (non-violently) policing themselves...

I think the chances that a noble bay area population will rise up and keep the peace are lower than the chances of the police getting slightly less jerk-y

sweet butch 125 tag on the death wish poster. never noticed that before.

i just finished reading the tipping point and he talked about the transit mess in NYC in the 70s/80s and it sounded beyond insane.

jesus xposting!

kevin, sometimes looking like a hardman is worth its weight in gold. If you look like you're too much trouble to take on, most people won't.

or were you trying to understand what was going on in a clearly fucked-up person's mind? sorry if so

xp what is "finishing fights"? the black guy posed absolutely no threat to the white guy and he knew it, what was the point of beating him to a pulp other than for the thrill or to impress people? would you apply the same logic to something bigger, like a country's foreign policy?

Starting fights without having the will to finish them seems like the definition of getting your ass beat a lot.

hi every republican i know

is this what you really believe?

Well, yeah. Ideally, no one ever fights, yada yada yada, of course.

But once you're engaged in a fight, worrying about being too aggressive is a v. v. v. good way of getting your ass kicked.

I think the chances that a noble bay area population will rise up and keep the peace are lower than the chances of the police getting slightly less jerk-y

but I HAVE seen it happen, on occasion! Once a bunch of passengers (surprisingly politely) escorted this clearly deranged white dude who was spouting every racial obscenity he could think of off the bus. Another time this old black guy shamed some black teenagers into refraining from harassing other passengers... it's not unheard of.

x-post

looking like a hardman is worth its weight in gold. If you look like you're too much trouble to take on, most people won't.

^^^this. totally OTM and necessary advice for urban living

the black guy posed absolutely no threat to the white guy and he knew it,

erm no

the black guy posed absolutely no threat to the white guy and he knew it,

no WAY, there's no way he could know that, AND he came up to the front of the bus and threw the first punch.

xp

iatee, most of my buses are both super tolerant and also readily willing to help you off if you're a dick. The exceptions seem to be when the high school boys outnumber you and need to front so they feel their dicks are big enough and when there are drunken crews. The sad exception is when there's someone so smelly/psychotic and at off-hours (I take the bus at 6:30 and I'm willing to see a lot slide) where passangers are too willing to wait.

xp what is "finishing fights"? the black guy posed absolutely no threat to the white guy and he knew it,

Motherfucker could throw one soft tap, I guess, but you aren't actually supposed to let the guy you're fighting get his shots in for fairness - and how would Motherfucker know if the guy had a knife on him or something?

i am loling at all the hardmen on this thread!!!

The exceptions seem to be when the high school boys outnumber you and need to front so they feel their dicks are big enough

girls are worse imho. a bunch of bitchy, shrieking teenage girls = me in hell

Some people, when attacked, attack back until the person is incapacitated. That's the entire point of engaging in the fight. It's pretty clear that old white dude knew he was going to lose his shit and attempted to physically extricate himself from the situation. The problem was that neither one of them would let go of the verbal attack and, when the black dude threw that punch, it was pretty much game over.

i am loling at all the hardmen on this thread!!!

lol I just meant that if you look mean/crazy/unpredictable enough most people who might otherwise consider fucking with you will not.

(cue Steve Martin joke about throwing up on his money whenever he leaves the house)

"the black guy posed absolutely no threat to the white guy and he knew it"

I am (o_O) at this.

i just carry a gun with me, in my hand, at all times