Has British Culture Declined In The Last 20 Years?

PS: Channel 4 was even worse in 1981 than in 2001. It didn't exist. Those weeks of woolly-jumpered Colin MacCabe introducing the Godard season flicks a few hours after crazy new show Countdown had finished were still a twinkle in, um - Michael Grade's? Jeremy Isaacs'? - eye.

As a professional sub I am bound to say that less people seem to be able to eg spell: but I think this is an inevitable result of the group of readers/writers being SO VERY MUCH LARGER (in other words, it's a kind of optical illusion, rather than a decline: the number of accurate spellers has ALSO VERY LIKELY RISEN, just not as superfast as the total number of readers-writers). (Or indeed the total number of people who have passed through higher education, hugely larger than it was say in the 60s.) And spelling and grammar are really no more than a kind of etiquette, which — like all etiquettes — can easily have an exclusionary and umpleasant dimension to them.

Current education policies have possibly introduced a chill on numbers in Higher Education: inadvertently or ( Conspiracy Theory Alert) deliberately, on a Too-Many-Chiefs-Not-Enuff-Indians principle. The shifts towards inclusivity in the 60s were a product — though you'd never guess this to listen to Education Debate currently — of protest from the Middle Classes. The coming backlash against Woodhouse-ism will also come from the Middle Classes, when current policy (as per return to Comps vs Grammars, under other names, plus Student Loans et al) starts to impact on them again.

I agree that what we mean by 'culture' has probably changed; and I agree with the Madchen about (something like) cosmopolitanism.

But what about - for instance - the BBC? A mainstay of British culture, you might think. Is it better or worse than 20 years ago?

In my view most people in UK know very little about Empire. I have always considered it a serious misjudgement on the part of cultural commentators / critics / historians et al who say things like, 'Britain is still suffering from post-imperial melancholy' / 'the ongoing trauma of the loss of Empire', etc. Maybe some people are, somewhere (eg: very old members of Conservative associations), but nobody that I've ever met.

To that extent Empire is a red herring.

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't talk about 'new imperialism' / neo-colonialism, trainer sweatshops etc etc., which are obviously pertinent political subjects.

I repeat: where is Robin C when we need him?

Sigh.

James EL: like I said, define 'culture' how you like.

Nick D: I'm amazed that you disagree with me. I almost put in what I wrote above that whatever anyone else thought, Nick D would agree with me.

Why are you always disagreeing with me? Is it out of spite or something? I don't get it.

Anyway, I don't share your view on this at all, ND. I suppose that's clear by now.

x0x0

*laughs*. yes, that's it.

[Robin C says: it's the lowest point in the history of the tabloid press. And god, that's LOW.]

Lowest point in tabloid history: the Sun backtracks on Morris?

Worth trying for historical perspective, I think - other Controversies, esp. round early C4 - Brookside = CHANNEL SWORE!!?

Perhaps so, I mean I'm sure we've all seen enough videos, read enough books and newspapers, but then again is culture something you have to experience first hand (as an adult) to get an overall sense of worth?

Perhaps it has something to do with Pinefox's point in the Hitchhikers Guide thread about childhood memories of adult culture. As a child we experience childhood culture, as an adult we experience adult culture.

Of course the two cannot be mutually exclusive, so where are the boundaries, where do the two meet? Is there a difference at all? Culture is culture is culture? I'm confusing myself now. I'll stop.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-ca-0829-brits-20100829,0,4163226.story

Just noticed that myself. Oh dear.

"In England, breaking boundaries or shocking people is an obligation," said Gabe Doppelt, the former editor in chief of Mademoiselle, who's now the West Coast bureau chief of the Daily Beast, and who launched her career in London. "Go back to Chaucer. It's some of the most shocking stuff I've ever read."

waht wtf What arrant nonsense.

yeah, regretted not reading it in a newspaper cuz i couldn't wad it up and throw it away

Brits in being shocked at shocking brits shocker.

the article does sort-of correctly identify a strain of this country's sycophant popkult shite which will only be emboldened by american approval

it's like when someone achieves minor success in america and they get fawning broadsheet fluff pieces w/ exagerrated claims for their popularity

Also commonplace in Britain are figures, like Morgan, who can move seamlessly between appearing on game shows and interviewing leading politicians,

Ha ha.

Morgan's Englishness, likewise, isn't incidental to his success.

Confusing 'Englishness' with 'being a wanker' there.

He wants to interview Cowell, he told a reporter, because during an earlier sit-down in Britain, which he called "Round One," Morgan "nearly took him down, made him cry."

Making Cowell cry may normally be a noble goal, but remember that Morgan is such a horrible person that even Jeremy Clarkson punched him.

xp next week, Timmy Mallett plays a round of Mallett's Mallet with David Cameron and Nick Clegg.

sycophant popkult shite

Not sure what this means, but it seems to gesture somewhat to the one otm thing in this, to wit the thing about the private school teacher put downs. We're an incredibly teacherly culture, in the sense that we love pointing out breaches of 'the rules', while pushing them ourselves. Maybe this isn't just our culture idk, but it seems to me we're incredibly servile and pompous about authority, and basically love being bollocked while silently resenting it.

aspirant public figures ascend thru a layer of bitter sniping before reaching a level where ppl are really very impressed with them, they become even more impressed with themselves and any criticism is notional

like piers morgan cld douse comatose corgis w/ paraffin and ignite and still be indulged w/ sunday times spreads abt 'the man we love to hate'

One of Britons’ self-confessed worst habits – nose-picking – may actually be good for their health, new research suggests.
A poll in January revealed nose-picking is the second most common bad habit among British people.

https://www.rt.com/uk/386242-nose-picking-health-bacteria/

The Brass Eye controversy being billed as the ultimate low point of tabloid culture upthread there - happier times, eh?

Much of the reasoning expressed upthread still works, but I wonder if anyone would be willing to give an enthusiastic "no!" in 2017.

I think British film is in rude health

not since Michael Powell retired

I think a lot of my favourite stuff right now is harking back to older eras/aesthetics, though that's probably me getting older, my own biases and laziness as much as anything else.

Pengest Munch is a good counter-argument though.

there is no such thing as 'british culture' tbf

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/nintchdbpict000311240356.jpg?strip=all&w=960&quality=100

take it to the real england thread