Rank Brian DePalma's Films

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Ever notice how DePalma saves his most over-the-top, complex shots for throwaway scenes like phone conversations?

Dr. Alicia B. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:53 (seventeen years ago) link

HMMMMMM. not always. Sometimes it's Al Pacino playing hide&seek in Grand Central.

“anybody who can’t see the wit and impressive morality of The Fury really has no business in this profession, and I absolutely do believe that anybody who can’t see it in The Fury doesn’t really like movies.”

-Armond White (ok, he is completely kerrraaazy sometimes)

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 15:06 (seventeen years ago) link

There's one shot in Carlito's Way that starts on Central Park West full of 70s period cars for a few seconds, then pulls back through a window, over Sean Penn's head sitting at his desk making a phone call. How much did that shot cost??

Dr. Alicia B. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 15:17 (seventeen years ago) link

I have passes to see Black Dahlia on Thursday. EXCITED!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 15:23 (seventeen years ago) link

and the one where Penn's walking to the Rikers barge and there's a pullback of 300 yards+ over the water. To which I say SHOWBOAT.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 15:48 (seventeen years ago) link

No problem, Morb. I know you don't really like De Palma... or movies.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Spielberg aside, I think you and I have completely opposing sensibilities and it's a miracle we even talk to each other.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:06 (seventeen years ago) link

and wrt Babette's Feast, wild horses couldn't drag me to watch that one, so I at least give you credit for trying to watch movies you knew full well beforehand you would loathe.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:08 (seventeen years ago) link

c'mon, I expected to loathe Carlito's Way and didn't!

I hafta say I find Andrew Stevens kinda repulsive, even before he starts to speak (and while polevaulting).

What's most intriguing about The Fury is that most of the 'horror scenes' are strangely funny (tho I didn't laugh once), and the 'comedy scenes' are vaguely horrific (Mother Nuckells).

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:14 (seventeen years ago) link

armond white is insane 95% of the time. though even a stopped clock etc etc

gear (gear), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:19 (seventeen years ago) link

I really hope I didn't miss an SCTV "Farm Film Report" where Big Jim and Billy Sol had Cassavetes on to reprise the Fury finale. "WHEEEE-HOO! Blowed up real good!"

Also relieved to see novelist/adapter John Farris never wrote another movie.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:25 (seventeen years ago) link

I agree that White isn't to be trusted most of the time (and Scarface is one of those times), but he's right about De Palma most of the time and Spielberg maybe a third of the time. That's enough for me to want to live in perpetual midnight.

Liking Carlito's Way doesn't really impress me as it is the least litmus test-y of De Palma's better films in that it doesn't require people to get over their hangups about the Hitchcock riffs, his frequently campy sensibilities (I'm with you on the comedy/horror crossover, but I consider it a strength in the film) or his aggressive, almost embarrassing disdain of narrative reality. The only thing that a viewer of Carlito's Way has to get over to enjoy is Penelope Ann Miller. And it's never been all that difficult for male viewers to shrug off female actors, so there it is.

I can shrug off the disliking of The Fury because it is pretty hardcore, but paired with dislike for Dressed to Kill? That indicates to me a fundamental split in how we view films.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:29 (seventeen years ago) link

'3000 Miles' tracks pessimistic ex-cons, broken families on the road, boys without role models, casual venality, the familiarity of violence. It’s flashy but it’s also uncanny. The story of Michael’s corruption opposes Murphy’s hopeless corruption (announced in the 3-D credit sequence). It seeks decent, humane gestures (among them, Ice-T keeping thieves’ honor through a spectacular sacrifice) and, with a sense of topsy-turvy grace, moves toward light.

gear (gear), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:30 (seventeen years ago) link

(x-post) There was a farm film report where they mentioned The Fury. Not quite as good as Andrea Martin's Brenda Vaccaro impersonation, but close.

If only other critics were right as interestingly as Armond is wrong.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:32 (seventeen years ago) link

i do enjoy reading his justifications whenever an actor he always despises is in a film by a director he always loves. whatever will he do if samuel l. jackson stars in a de palma film?

gear (gear), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:39 (seventeen years ago) link

I believe Armond liked Sam L in that John Boorman film (that everyone else hated). Well, he always hated Tom Cruise until he teamed up with de Palma and Spielberg.

xpost

Actually, none of the Hitchcock riffs in Dressed to Kill pissed me off as much as the hanging-by-the-arm rooftop thing w/ Douglas and Stevens near the end of The Fury.

I'd be with you on the "fundamental split" thing -- if I though BdP was fundamental. There's something about his sensibility -- and the mining of horror tropes in general -- that I consider adolescent at the core, and that just doesn't connect with me much at my *cough* time of life, if it ever did. (Admittedly this jones might be fully served by broad comedy, 1915-65, in my case.) Maybe I found Femme Fatale to be mature and smart (yet still playful) cuz de Palma made it at 60.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:47 (seventeen years ago) link

I just hope that De Palma doesn't decide to go back to Godard now that he's older. It wouldn't suit him; his dotage seems significantly more optimistic than In Praise of Love.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 17:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I was weaned on horror films, and I guess there's some adult validation in the films of De Palma that mesh sophisticated technique and forthright sensuality with tempera paint blood. I suspect this won't change even as I approach closing on a condo and registering for my company's 401K plan. (Which, admittedly, are both happening this week.)

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 17:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Do folx often affix 'red period' (hadn't heard that category, btw) BdP to Godard, moreso than the early stuff like the deNiro comedies? What I thought of in the triple-cuts in The Fury (two of them?) was Jessica Tandy finding the farmer's body in The Birds.

(congrats on the double-adulthood move, Most Worthy Adversary ... and don't put the max % in, you'll never get to the TIFF)

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 17:10 (seventeen years ago) link

I think they use Godard as the throughline, actually. I can't remember if I ever called the De Niro movies the Godard period, but I could've. I said/wrote a lot of things in the last month that were a few hours past deadline, and frequently leaned on the crutch called Kael, so I'm not positive if there are any real keeper pieces in the bunch.

I count at least three of the stutter zooms in my memory. They do seem like the farmer thing in The Birds, but the rhythm is definitely different. Plus, I thought Hitchcock only did that in case the censors got uptight about the closest shot of the pecked-out eyes.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 17:21 (seventeen years ago) link

just rewatched the untouchables and i take it all back - sux.

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Thursday, 14 September 2006 23:16 (seventeen years ago) link

i mean i knew kevin costner was a putz, but that's just ridiculous. also i don't really believe that david mamet wrote it.

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Thursday, 14 September 2006 23:21 (seventeen years ago) link

Wow. Black Dahlia is uh really silly. It does feature the soon to be IMMORTAL line though:

SHE LOOKS LIKE THAT DEAD GIRL!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 15 September 2006 03:50 (seventeen years ago) link

I think that line was in the book.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 15 September 2006 11:48 (seventeen years ago) link

SHE LOOKS LIKE THAT DEAD GIRL!

I'm glad that was cut from Vertigo.

I wonder who got the Cassavetes dummy head from The Fury, Rick Baker or Gena Rowlands?

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 15 September 2006 12:34 (seventeen years ago) link

You have to see it. Even if it was (I don't remember) the delivery is hysterical.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 15 September 2006 13:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Props to Eric! (I think you've already named names here, tho.)


Say ‘Brian De Palma.’ Let the Fighting Start.
By A. O. SCOTT


IF you ever want to start a fight in a room full of film critics — and honestly, who doesn’t? — you might bring up Brian De Palma’s “Mission to Mars.” Released in the spring of 2000, the film is an unusually somber space adventure starring Gary Sinise, Connie Nielsen and Tim Robbins as members of a crew of astronauts encountering danger and mystery on the surface of the red planet.

At first glance it does not seem to be the kind of picture that would incite ferocious controversy, since it contains no sexual provocation, little in the way of graphic violence and few obvious gestures toward topical relevance. A disappointment at the box office, it nonetheless stirred up unusually fierce sentiments among reviewers, or at least among its defenders, who used their regard for the movie as a cudgel against some of their colleagues.

“It can be said with certainty,” Armond White wrote in the weekly New York Press, that anyone panning “Mission to Mars” “does not understand movies, let alone like them.” Charles Taylor in the online magazine Salon, revisiting the movie on the occasion of its release on DVD later that year, sounded a similar note when he declared that “a critic who does not recognize the visual rhapsody” of the film ‘‘is about as trustworthy as a blind dance critic.”

This kind of language arises with arresting frequency in discussions of Mr. De Palma’s work. Almost from the beginning — certainly since he began to receive wide attention with the lurid, unnerving and strangely comical horror thrillers “Carrie” (1976), “The Fury” (1978) and “Dressed to Kill” (1980) — his name has been a critical fighting word. Sometimes the arguments fasten on a particular theme or issue: the sexual violence in “Casualties of War” (1989), for instance, or the general violence, extreme for its time, in “Scarface” (1983). But more often the combativeness of Mr. De Palma’s committed admirers reveals more about the nature of cinephilic ardor than it does about the filmmaker himself. Rock stars have fans; opera singers have worshipers; but movie directors have partisans. Liking a given director’s movies can feel like a matter of principle, not of taste; failing to appreciate them is therefore evidence of cretinism or, at best, a serious moral and intellectual deficiency.

Last month, in anticipation of the release of Mr. De Palma’s new movie, “The Black Dahlia” (which opened on Friday and which stars Josh Hartnett, Scarlett Johansson, Aaron Eckhart and Hilary Swank), the online magazine Slant, a repository of passionate and often prickly pop-cultural analysis, began publishing a series of essays on this director’s oeuvre. Many of those articles — new ones continue to appear at slantmagazine.com/film/features/briandepalma.asp — are packed with insights and ideas. They are also noisy with the din of gauntlets clattering to the ground.

Introducing the De Palma package — called “Auteur Fatale,” a play on the title of his 2002 film, “Femme Fatale” — the critic Eric Henderson tosses down a bucketful, construing Mr. De Palma’s career as a series of face-offs with his uncomprehending and uptight detractors.

“Perpetually a crucible to critics who liked only the most tasteful dash of sensualism mixed in with their rigid formalism,” Mr. Henderson writes, without naming names, “the release of each new De Palma film would inevitably bring forth offended defenses of sacrosanct cinematic aridity, and that was only if he got off easy.” More than that, it seems that his movies have served as a direct riposte to such critical bluestockings: “De Palma’s oeuvre owes at least some part of its brash vitality to the destructivism his critics sparked in the director’s bruised ego,” Mr. Henderson writes.

Whether or not this is true — and I’m not sure it does Mr. De Palma much of a favor to suppose that his creative potency springs from a vendetta against journalists — Mr. Henderson is hardly alone in taking a defiant, oppositional stance in the director’s defense. The tepid early reviews of “The Black Dahlia,” a tangled period noir based on James Ellroy’s novel about a famous 1947 murder case, may be an incitement to further polemics.

But who (or what, since the “critics” who are always imagined to be ganging up on Mr. De Palma are rarely specified or quoted) is being opposed? And in the name of what?

It depends on whom — and when — you ask. Like a number of other American directors, including Robert Altman, Martin Scorsese and Jonathan Demme, who came into their own in the 1970’s and early 80’s, Mr. De Palma, who turned 66 last week, found an important champion in Pauline Kael. Her long, enthusiastic New Yorker reviews of “Carrie,” “The Fury” and “Dressed to Kill” were not only appreciations of his technical skill and sadistic sense of mischief, but also important installments in her long-running polemic against what she took to be a stuffy, condescending way of looking at — or refusing to look at — movies. In many ways Mr. De Palma’s supremely artful approach to horror movies and slasher films was ideally suited to Ms. Kael’s aesthetic commitment to finding exaltation in entertainments too easily dismissed as trash.

In the “Carrie” review, the words trashiness, tawdriness, candy and schlock appear in the space of a few sentences, and none of them are used disapprovingly. They signal how much fun the movie is, and also that the fun is not mindless but knowing. In Ms. Kael’s account, which remains one of her most persuasive reviews, “Carrie” is at once terrifying and funny, satirical and heartfelt, exploitative and implicitly critical of the machinery of exploitation. It draws promiscuously on the movies of the past — in addition to Hitchcock, Ms. Kael invokes Buñuel, “Splendor in the Grass,” “The Bride of Frankenstein” and “The Wizard of Oz” — to arrive at something lively and new.

To put it another way, the movies that secured Mr. De Palma his critical following (which has not, it should be noted, been limited to Ms. Kael’s followers) exhibited many of the attributes of what people would eventually call postmodernism: a cool, ironic affect; the overt pastiche of work from the past; the insouciant mixture of high and low styles. They were also — sometimes playfully, sometimes vertiginously — self-conscious, making you aware of the psychological manipulations inherent in cinema even as they manipulated your own responses with sadistic glee.

Voyeurism, surveillance, the deceitful nature of appearances and the unstable nature of reality: these have been preoccupations of Mr. De Palma’s from the start, so much so that he has sometimes seemed to parody himself. Peeping Toms, mysterious doubles, evil twins, mirrors, video cameras, film clips, tape recordings — all are predictable elements of a De Palma movie.

When too many of them are missing, admirers can find themselves disappointed. Ms. Kael’s review of “Scarface,” for example, was published in The New Yorker under the heading “A De Palma Movie for People Who Don’t Like De Palma Movies.” That the advertisements for “The Black Dahlia” promise a new film “from the director of ‘Scarface’ and ‘The Untouchables’ ” is likely to frustrate true believers, since those two movies, maybe his best known, are also in many ways his least characteristic.

Over all, though, he has remained remarkably consistent. The teasing shock of “Sisters” (1973), with its murderous twins, resurfaces in the underappreciated “Raising Cain” (1992), just as the uncanniness of “Obsession” finds an echo in “Femme Fatale.” (“The Black Dahlia,” though a rare period piece, is nonetheless loaded with the director’s usual themes and visual hallmarks, from the mysterious doubles to the films-within-the-film to the vulnerable and monstrous femmes fatales.) But if he has not changed, his partisans — or at least the terms of their partisanship — have.

Ms. Kael’s celebration of trash has given way to the defense of art. Mr. De Palma, customarily associated with Hitchcock, Dario Argento and other masters of the movie Gothic, is now frequently placed in the company of cinema philosophes like Jean-Luc Godard and Chris Marker. No longer the playful postmodernist, he is now, in the eyes of his admirers, something of a classicist, his critical enemies not high-minded squares but soulless philistines.

In his brief for “Mission to Mars,” Mr. Taylor of Salon claimed that “more than any filmmaker now working, De Palma communicates his meanings almost entirely in visual terms.” The hyperbole in this statement — more than any filmmaker? Steven Spielberg? Wong Kar-wai? — indicates that he sees something at stake beyond the merits of a particular film or filmmaker, namely the continued appreciation of film as a visual medium.

In other words, if you find yourself attending, as professional critics and everyday moviegoers often will, to things like the psychology of characters, the coherence of plot or the plausibility of dialogue, you are missing not only the point, but also the art. And if critics, the presumed protectors of the art, are dismissive of its purest expression, then there is reason to worry, and maybe also to fight.

Even though Mr. De Palma’s detractors are accused of formalism, what elicits rapture from his admirers is in the end nothing other than his formal command. Even in his weakest movies there are moments of intense visual pleasure, in which he moves the camera with the elegant, arrogant virtuosity of a pianist tackling a treacherous passage of Liszt. “The Bonfire of the Vanities,” for instance, can be a chore to sit through — as it was, notoriously, a nightmare to make — but the opening shot, which follows a drunken Bruce Willis on his meandering course from an underground garage, up stairs and elevators, through one change of clothes and several female companions, and into a faceful of poached salmon — well, it will take your breath away, as describing it just did mine.

And Mr. De Palma specializes in choreographing extended set pieces that are variously breathless, breathtaking, heart-stopping and nerve-racking. Even a De Palma dilettante will single out favorites, while the more scholarly will arrange them in motifs. He has, for example, an evident affinity for elevators and stairwells, and for traveling shots in which his camera moves vertically and laterally as if borne aloft by birds or balloons.

He had the nerve to recreate the baby carriage-on-the-stairs sequence from Eisenstein’s “Battleship Potemkin,” in “The Untouchables” (1987). But that scene, in Mr. De Palma’s oeuvre, is just one variation on a theme, part of an anthology that includes the long, intricate chase and shootout in Grand Central Terminal at the climax of “Carlito’s Way” and, most recently, a suite of killings on a marble staircase that forms the centerpiece of “The Black Dahlia.”

Anyone familiar with Mr. De Palma’s work can compile a catalog of marvels, and there seems to be at least one in every picture. (Even “Mission to Mars” skeptics will smile at the image of Mr. Robbins and Ms. Nielsen dancing in zero gravity to Van Halen). But are such moments enough? That, it seems to me, is a case-by-case question of taste, and thus not really a matter for sweeping, all-or-nothing arguments.

In other words, you can like movies just fine and still not like “Mission to Mars.” But behind such combative assertions is a very real worry: that the possibility of recognizing and relishing such moments, and of appreciating the unique visual power of film, is at risk in a culture saturated with cheap, flashy, corrupting images, few of them worthy of a second look. Which is something Mr. De Palma’s films always demand and frequently reward.



Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 18 September 2006 13:03 (seventeen years ago) link

anyone panning Mission to Mars does not understand movies, let alone like them

ho snap!

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 18 September 2006 13:20 (seventeen years ago) link

i'm gonna use that anytime anyone disagrees w/me - anyone panning this falafel does not understand falafel, let alone like it!

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 18 September 2006 13:23 (seventeen years ago) link

it can be said with certainty, anyone panning my new shoes does not understand shoes, let alone like them!

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 18 September 2006 13:26 (seventeen years ago) link

I like DePalma (I suspect more in a Kael way) but his biggest boosters are completely nuts (no offense, Eric.)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 18 September 2006 16:24 (seventeen years ago) link

armond white IS insane if he likes 'the black dahlia' and blames ellroy for anything wrong with it. there's nothing wrong with it that doesn't fall squarely on bdp's shoulders.

gear (gear), Monday, 18 September 2006 16:42 (seventeen years ago) link

Armond's taught me that I'd rather be nuts than dull.

I'm incredibly flattered to be used in that NYT article, Morbs, but I think it's amusing he picked one of the most stilted things I wrote in that feature. Only the Casualties of War review was more dour than those excerpts.

No matter, my parents are thrilled all the same.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 18 September 2006 17:31 (seventeen years ago) link

Armond's taught me that I'd rather be nuts than dull.

To the extent that I actually don't understand the intellectual value of "objective" film criticism. To the extent that it is supposed to be fun and to give you someone else's point of view.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 18 September 2006 17:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, by focusing on your dourest defenses, AO Scott has cast you as Obi-wan Kenobi to Armond's Qui-Gon.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 18 September 2006 17:55 (seventeen years ago) link

"Armond's taught me that I'd rather be nuts than dull."

I'd rather be neither, frankly.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 18 September 2006 19:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, that's why I clarified it a bit. Most critics worth reading fall into one of those two categories, imo.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 18 September 2006 19:20 (seventeen years ago) link

"She looks like that dead girl!" isn't really very funny at all.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 30 September 2006 21:05 (seventeen years ago) link

"She looks like that dead girl!" isn't really very funny at all.

Whenever that line was used, I kept thinking "Snake Plissken, I thought you were dead..."

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Saturday, 30 September 2006 21:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Everything Fiona Shaw and that assistant DA said was way funnier.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 30 September 2006 21:17 (seventeen years ago) link

""She looks like that dead girl!" isn't really very funny at all."

We couldn't be more different.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 30 September 2006 22:34 (seventeen years ago) link

Fiona Shaw was pretty funny though.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 30 September 2006 22:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, hey, you started this thread. So we can't be that different.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 30 September 2006 22:36 (seventeen years ago) link

I think humor may be what this film most lacked and needed.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 30 September 2006 22:37 (seventeen years ago) link

A different script and better actors also couldn't have hurt.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 30 September 2006 22:41 (seventeen years ago) link

A different director, too. It pains me to say this, but this material did not suit De Palma. If Fincher had directed it, I could've seen it, shrugged it off and never looked back. Now I'm left with half a movie that I really like and half a movie that I wish I could dismiss.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 30 September 2006 22:42 (seventeen years ago) link

But I think I can still retain the "completely nuts" tag, as the stuff I liked was still enough for me to call it one of the better movies I've seen this year.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 30 September 2006 22:43 (seventeen years ago) link

I hate it when I like a movie and still wish it hadn't been made.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 30 September 2006 22:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Well on my list above it would fall about 16 and it was one of the worst films I saw this year so I'm back to thinking we couldn't be more different haha.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 30 September 2006 22:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, you're probably right. People who claim to like De Palma but rank The Untouchables over Femme Fatale ... does not compute.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 30 September 2006 22:49 (seventeen years ago) link


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