Getting Things Done (GTD) - Cult or Awesome?

I'm sorry, jeff. I don't want you to go to hell. I'm horrifically envious.

from the "Don't Get Your Shit Together" blog (that doesn't have a lot of links and has the standard blogger template)

lifewhacks tip #34: Move back in with your parents

I dunno, it just sounds like a good idea.
posted by "the dude" on 12-12-2007 12:12:12pm

did that at 26.

Scarring experience.

Mister M uses a version of GTD in his work, and it works very well for him, because he is one of those people who will look at a huge block of work and kind of panic. It's a good way to turn an amorphous project into discrete tasks, and it suits him because it kind of calms him down.

I, on the other hand, have streamlined my life by having a job which features one task and one task only, which I do over and over again. No organization needed. Of course, now all my nice notebooks and pens and things that I love to buy are completely redundant. I might have to start writing letters to people.

mmm... assembly line

BOOKMARKING -
TEXT MACROS -
CONTACT MANAGEMENT -
NEWS/WEB BROWSING/INFO -
COLLABORATIVE DOCUMENTS -
FINANCES -
CITATIONS -
BACKUPS -
BROWSER -
PHYSICAL ACTIVITY TRACKING -

Jeff's post confuses me - people really link in to this network of software to track their life? REALLY? How many people do this? I'm not kidding here, or trying to be funny -I know I'm a luddite - but WHY? How in hell does this not stress you to death? What if this support system malfunctions or fails? I cannot believe that this way of life can make you more productive or happier, sorry.

Also, what are these tasks referred to above? Are they work-related or personal or a mixture/continuum of both? Are they related to a specific job? Some are obvious - finances, for example. What's contact management? I have a 20 year old filofax with addresses in, but I don't manage it. Does that count?

Text Macros? You save keystrokes - why?

Bookmarking? I use a bookmark.

Physical Activity Tracking. Why on earth do you want to do this? If I go for a run, then, well...I've been for a run. Why do I need to log this in a computer. If my time was good, bad or indifferent, then that's what it was.

I believe that I am about as productive as I can be, or want to be, using bits of paper and my memory.

I have never heard of this before, but it just sounds ridiculous. And by ridiculous, I mean, so blantantly stupidly obvious that it would take the biggest charlatan in the world to make a copyrighted "system" out of it and an even bigger idiot (no offense to the people here that use it or find it helpful) to fall for it hook, line and sinker.

In what way is any of this new? Writing things down? Making lists? Evaluating the importance/priority of things as they come up? Isn't that called Just Being Organised? You need a BOOK to tell you these things? I learned them in the 5th grade.

Or did you really think that all that homework was actually to teach you algebra or the fall of the Holy Roman Empire? No! it was to teach you to be organised and develop your own system for managing your workload. I guess I did learn something at those expensive schools.

I don't vote cult or awesome, I vote so patently obvious it's up there with selling bottled tap water and, I don't know, repackaging sliced bread as an "innovative sandwich solutions".

I guess I did learn something at those expensive schools.

Well, you didn't learn any tact. I am offended that you have called my husband an idiot because he finds this system helpful. No amount of "I don't mean to be offensive" before saying something offensive like that really helps.

Yeah, I freely admit. I learned task management skills, but I never learned people management skills. But it does shock me that people can be so disorganised in the same way it shocks you that I can be so rude.

And what I actually said was, you're not an idiot if you use it and it's helpful to you, but you're an idiot if you think this is something new or unique or amazing. It isn't, it's something most people learn in grammar school. And making a copyrighted cult out of it and charging people money to learn it *is* ridiculous.

See also EVERY OTHER BUSINESS INITIATIVE EVER.

I am happy to be disorganized, to be honest.

If I come across as angry or beligerant, I apologise. I'm not angry at people who use systems like this, I'm angry at the kind of people who make shedloads of money hawking books and clinics and workshops and charging consultation fees to teach people perfectly common sense things. It's like snake oil salesmen or travelling tent preachers to me.

I cultivate an air of completely disorganisation because, as Feynman said, it gets you out of having to do unpleasant things if you cultivate an air of unresponsibility. But I am actually a keenly organised person underneath the hippie pose. Ha ha. I would never admit that in the office, though.

http://www.akira2019.com/images/characters1/thecolnel.jpg

"They don't teach tact at the academy."

In what way is any of this new? Writing things down? Making lists? Evaluating the importance/priority of things as they come up? Isn't that called Just Being Organised?

There's much more to it than that. See Google for details.

I don't buy into the basic basic premise behind GTD that "stuff" that is in your mind that you haven't yet done is causing you untold psychological anxiety.

GTD people need more of:

Do you ever stop to consider the fact that one day not only will you be dead and everyone you know will be dead too, but that the planet will probably fall back into the sun and the entire universe w

I don't buy into the basic basic premise behind GTD that "stuff" that is in your mind that you haven't yet done is causing you untold psychological anxiety.

Oh it does for me, totally. Brains work and react differently etc.

but but Kenan, it really isn't complicated once it is all in place.

As for why I feel the need to track all the minutia in my life. It's part OCD, but I actually find it makes such tasks more interesting. It's like smoking pot while doing the dishes.

One day I would like to be able to capture every thought I have.

brain.xls

This should sufficiently infuriate most people on this thread

LOL@ "this image has been stolen from..."

Put it back on the server where it belongs right now!

It isn't, it's something most people learn in grammar school.

not a fair argument at all considering how much we now know about how school works and does not work - if school really worked for everyone and all the things people "learned" were actually learned and remembered and integrated into everyday lives, then fine, everyone should be getting As. the divide in grades/aptitudes is not all about how "smart" someone is, but how smart one is in school, how well someone works within that particular education system. all people/brains are different, as said above.

things like GTD while super obvious on some levels, does teach certain things in different ways, so while some people may have picked them up fine in elementary school, other people look at these newly organized & taught concepts and go "ohhhh" and get it and it makes their life happier in whatever way.

that said, i'm much more about finding your own way of organization/non-organization/shit-not-together-eff-you above all else, rather than trying to cram your life into a system that might not work for you (see school argument above, history of school as a destructive force for so many people), as long as you're happy with it whatever happy means to you

whoa HOW TO MAKE POCKET has just mitigated my caffeine buzz

people really link in to this network of software to track their life?

it occurs to me, this is prob doing just the usual stuff many of us do but suddenly it's been reframed in terms of 'productivity' and 'lifehacks' and 'task tracking' instead of 'surfing the internets' and 'f***ing around with web 2.0 software' and 'putting off stuff to do later'

I don't buy into the basic basic premise behind GTD that "stuff" that is in your mind that you haven't yet done is causing you untold psychological anxiety.

I buy it! I buy it completely. But I'm not buying this dude's book.

I can lend it to you once Jenny finishes reading it.

Honestly, the many many websites that talk about this stuff have been much more helpful than the book ever was.

srsly some of these hyper productive people i'm like.. 'i just don't believe you' i bet half of them are like the fashion bloggers who can't really even dress themselves (some of them can't)

well sure, grain of salt and all that.

Jeff's system appears complicated to me, too, but it makes him happy, he enjoys farting around with it, and it helps him, dare I say, get things done. This in turn creates a more egalitarian domestic partnership between us since it does not automatically fall to me, as the person with the better head for nit-picky details and commitments, to remember everything and dole out tasks and reminders accordingly, a role that I resent deeply as being very intrusive on my free time and my own thought processes. So in summary, I suggest you haterz all capture your judgments in your inbox and sort them into contextual actionable items during your weekly review. Or, to simplify it for you, stick it in your ear.

No domestic partnerships are egalitarian.

...creates a more egalitarian domestic partnership...

I am like Mr. Monkey. I have to use systems to break down tasks (at work, I'm much less organized in my personal life) or otherwise I'm like a deer in the headlights.

People learning and thinking in different ways non-shockah.

I think it can actually be counter-productive to rush to complete something off you list for the rush of Getting Things Done (TM).

Loads of (work) things I procrastinate over, and without much anxiety, because some things need time to take shape properly in your mind and make wider connections.

To clarify, I haven't read the book

HALLO, 99% OF THE FOLLOWERS OF GTD-THEMED WEBSITES!

I benefit well from making lists and scheduling tasks, but that's kind of common sense without using a "system" -- make a list, figure out what's important, and do tasks as time allows. By having a "system" it's like some 12 step program where the first step is to admit you have no control over your task-minding abilities and GTD is the higher power.

I have a coworker who apparently went to some short session on GTD with Outlook. He photocopied the info from it for the new guy, who I just found out yesterday still doesn't know how to make Outlook rules to file things in folders.

I like these Jeff and Jenny characters, do they have a newsletter?

Loads of (work) things I procrastinate over, and without much anxiety, because some things need time to take shape properly in your mind and make wider connections.

These go at the bottom of the list.

And yes some of us have no control over our task-minding abilities.

But from what I understand of it, it's more than just "make a list of the stuff you have to do". It's more of a systems-thinking approach, which involves breaking jobs down into their constituent tasks, which can then be approached in a more logical fashion if possible. It also seems to me that some of the objections to it seem to be based on the idea that it takes a long time to do, but as far as I understand it from Mister M (who clearly must be some sort of mindless disciple to it, given that he actually sprang for a copy of the book) there is a bit of a learning curve at first, but after that it becomes a normal part of your working day and saves you time overall.

Also, I resent the idea that anyone who looks about for a way to become more organized and more productive must necessarily be incredibly disorganized and non-productive to begin with. Just because you want to be better at something doesn't mean you were shit at it to start with.

You are right. Obv I have to a way to be organized and productive otherwise I'd never manage getting dressed and making breakfast in the mornings. It's just my natural systems are often deficient for our modern workaday world.

I'd also trust the dude's book a million times more than the websites, because he's selling one book or a seminar that basically gets you excited about making lists, whereas the sites are foisting software or trying to hook you into return visits for ad revenue.

For perspective, this is coming from me, someone who has that "deer in the headlights" look about being organized that Ms Misery mentions, owns the book, has tried some software systems (kinkless, that omnioutliner doc), and pretty much revels in disorganization and procrastination. This is good stuff, but it's a cult of being enthusiastic about... being organized.

I don't think I could ever be enthusiastic about it. I would just appreciate less stress.

lotta player hatin in this thread

lotta player hatin' in this thread on ILx

I benefit well from making lists and scheduling tasks, but that's kind of common sense without using a "system" -- make a list, figure out what's important, and do tasks as time allows. By having a "system" it's like some 12 step program where the first step is to admit you have no control over your task-minding abilities and GTD is the higher power.

qft

Since I'm an unmarried student working a Service Industry job, my setup is pretty uncomplicated.

(Sidebar: does "setup" un-ick it for you people? Jesus, the word "system" makes some of you go into conniption fits.)

It helps me keep track of internets stuff, blog entry ideas, story ideas, class assignments, errands to run, and phone calls to make. It's organized in such a way that (given that I actually trawl through my notebook at the appointed times) I'll actually get everything on every list in the little notebook done.

But I'm hardly some ardent defender of GTD. I'll let you happily disorganized people get back to your groaning. I gotta do some things.

(and please note that "happily disorganized" refers to those here who say they're disorganized and don't mind so much, it's not a general diss aimed at all the anti-GTD folks in the thread)

For all of the benefits of having a "system," I know myself well enough to realize that I work better and I am MUCH happier if I can slowly adapt and acquire new, better habits, rather than trying to commit myself wholesale to a specific detailed system.

There's always been, for me the, fetishistic impulse of buying and designating a really nice notebook / moleskine / day-planner / pda to invest $$$ and emtional energy into and then attend to it as a totem of my personal productivity (read: worth). This always fails; after the first few times I forget to include something, I get discouraged with myself and become more convinced than ever what an ineffectual scatter-brained slob I am.

So I don't have trouble with GTD as a set of principles, but I'd rather take them on as set of good habits, rather than try to shoehorn my life into a GTD rubric.

x-post

Uh, "set-up" and "system" both sound like you're trying to qualify something that is ho-hum everyday shit. Do you say that the stuff in your fridge is "quantified" by type and refrigeration needs? No, you put stuff in the fridge. Vegetables go in the damn crisper. Technically if you do things the same way consistently in any task that's your "setup" or "system." Hey guys, my system for driving to work where I get in the car, turn left, right, right, right, and left works perfectly! Overuse of words to qualify everyday tasks to add some sort of level of management to them makes it sound like you're more interested in how you do things than actually doing them.

If you're a process analyst or information architect I guess that's cool, because it's your job.

http://www.organizingla.com/photos/uncategorized/taxi_driver_still_1_1.jpg

Travis: I know what you mean. I've got the same problems. I gotta get organized. Oh little things, like my apartment, my possessions. I should get one of those signs that says 'One of these days I'm gonna get organizized.'

Betsy: You mean 'organized'?

Travis: Organiziezed. Organiziezed - it's a joke. O-R-G-A-N-E-Z-I-E-Z-D.

Betsy: Oh, you mean 'Organizized'. Like those little signs they have in offices that say "Thimk".

Jesus, the word "system" makes some of you go into conniption fits.

xpost

BIG MOLES aka the skinedriver

Aside, what burns me is that I have a moleskine book that I scribble, draw, make notes, etc. in (I like the paper and the binding stands up to abuse well) and I hate to be mistaken as a "system" person like that woman in Slacker that puts post-it notes on everything.