Matt:
and people like Tom Cleverly are not going to get any better than they already are
So Cleverley's, what, 22? 23? What is it about him which makes you think he won't get any better? I'm guessing you're not saying that no player gets betterafter his age.
I'm not saying he will get better, you understand, it's just I see this phrase sometimes and I wonder what it means.
― Tim, Friday, 6 September 2013 13:12 (ten years ago) link
There seems to be a real backlash against Cleverley atm, which I don't get. He's no Wilshere, but is a good player imo.
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 6 September 2013 13:22 (ten years ago) link
I might possibly rephrase that as "not going to get radically better". Cleverley strikes me as a good but limited footballer operating near the top of his capabilities. He's a tidy passing player but he doesn't really seem to have a playmaker's awareness and insight and I think that's something that manifests itself quite early in a player's development. I don't like Wilshere at all but he's already considerably more advanced in that regard.
Cleverly also doesn't have the physical attributes that would enable him to step up a level.
Admittedly, England's main problem has been one of composure for as long as I can remember so any player who can complete passes and doesn't crap themselves under pressure is welcome.
― Matt DC, Friday, 6 September 2013 13:25 (ten years ago) link
a lot of hype about cleverley but ppl in this country can't tell the difference between a neat, tidy, possession player and a really first rate technical player......like the gap between joe allen and modric is HUGE
― A.R.R.Y. Kane (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 21 August 2012 14:51 (1 year ago)
― гір кривбас кривий ріг (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Friday, 6 September 2013 13:26 (ten years ago) link
that was 2k12 tho, the gap right now is probably something like connor wickham to luiz ronaldo
― гір кривбас кривий ріг (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Friday, 6 September 2013 13:28 (ten years ago) link
Cleverley is a better player than Allen btw. I'm not sure if Hodgson has ever fielded a Carrick-Wilshere-Cleverley midfield and it would be distinctly un-English and not exactly world-beating but would at least be able to retain possession for longer than most England teams.
― Matt DC, Friday, 6 September 2013 13:31 (ten years ago) link
when cleverley broke into the utd team at the start of last season he was overhyped, but the one thing i did notice about him was that he was a pretty first-rate crosser of the ball from deep, but i never saw anything exceptional from him wrt touch or killer passes.
do agree with matt that carrick-wilshere-cleverley would be worth a shot internationally, just (and srsly now, character hat off) that rooney can't rly be trusted not to get irked with all that kept possession before even the bovine fans and charge back looking for it, wrecking all in his path.
townsend has more about him, in flashes, than a lot of england talent i've seen of that age. whether it's momentary or not remains to be seen. carroll i had thought a little overrated, but he seems to have come on a good bit if his performances at the start of this season are a gauge.
― his LIPS !!! (darraghmac), Friday, 6 September 2013 13:44 (ten years ago) link
Cleverley broke into the United team two years ago now, during that insane and brief period when Fergie was fielding him, Anderson AND Ashley Young and they were somehow destroying everyone. I would imagine it would have been pretty easy to get carried away with those performances.
― Matt DC, Friday, 6 September 2013 13:46 (ten years ago) link
welbeck went on a 70 yard run down our left flank, beat three players before falling over. incredible.
― his LIPS !!! (darraghmac), Friday, 6 September 2013 13:47 (ten years ago) link
gerraaaaard
― ... Jenkinson ... ... ... ... ... ... Özil ... ... (imago), Friday, 6 September 2013 19:18 (ten years ago) link
kyle walker is a stain - a very stain - upon my happiness
― ... Jenkinson ... ... ... ... ... ... Özil ... ... (imago), Friday, 6 September 2013 19:19 (ten years ago) link
BORN TO THE SHIRT
― ... Jenkinson ... ... ... ... ... ... Özil ... ... (imago), Friday, 6 September 2013 19:26 (ten years ago) link
moldova are almost amazingly bad
― ... Jenkinson ... ... ... ... ... ... Özil ... ... (imago), Friday, 6 September 2013 19:27 (ten years ago) link
Lololol walker starts for ye?
― his LIPS !!! (darraghmac), Friday, 6 September 2013 19:32 (ten years ago) link
:(
― ... Jenkinson ... ... ... ... ... ... Özil ... ... (imago), Friday, 6 September 2013 19:33 (ten years ago) link
Jesus lads if yeda asked we ave mcshane here doing nothing
― his LIPS !!! (darraghmac), Friday, 6 September 2013 19:34 (ten years ago) link
gorgeous pass lambert
― ... Jenkinson ... ... ... ... ... ... Özil ... ... (imago), Friday, 6 September 2013 19:46 (ten years ago) link
I fukin love Lambert
Good talk about Cleverley upthread. I agree with the "he's not going to get any better" school tbh. One thing about him is that he's just doesn't look like a natural footballer. His method of striking a football is so inelegant. There's something cramped about it, like he can usually get the ball where he wants it to go but he's shouting at it rather than suggesting. He's got an awful shot too
Welbeck is a beautiful enigma
― Number None, Saturday, 7 September 2013 01:03 (ten years ago) link
looks like Pardew has hit Gold, a 6 ft 2 striker that is a goal machine at league 1 level, approaching his peak years at 27 and half, strikers aged 27-30 are often at their peak performance, they have both experience of positioning / tactics and athletic ability.
― djmartian, Monday, 10 August 2009 13:03 (4 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
martian called lambert
― ... Jenkinson ... ... ... ... ... ... Özil ... ... (imago), Saturday, 7 September 2013 09:55 (ten years ago) link
Latest PollWho is England's most talented player?
Wayne Rooney31%Steven Gerrard34%Jack Wilshere22%Theo Walcott3%
― quite racist, don't mind rap (darraghmac), Monday, 16 September 2013 13:04 (ten years ago) link
what's the margin of error?
― Ismael Klata, Monday, 16 September 2013 13:08 (ten years ago) link
question doesn't specify wherein the talent lies
― i'm not racist, i just dislike rap (Noodle Vague), Monday, 16 September 2013 13:17 (ten years ago) link
what is the answer to this question?
don't for a second believe that thudd isn't in the top 5, flawed to he is in areas other than yr 'talent'
― quite racist, don't mind rap (darraghmac), Monday, 16 September 2013 13:46 (ten years ago) link
rio ferdinand
― ... Jenks ... Neu! military£ ... snkkt! pickles Özil JTUPFRONT njhtdgs (imago), Monday, 16 September 2013 13:48 (ten years ago) link
would quibble about fourth - the state of Theo on Saturday! - but otherwise poll answers otm imo
― Ismael Klata, Monday, 16 September 2013 13:48 (ten years ago) link
this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritchie_Humphreys
― ... Jenks ... Neu! military£ ... snkkt! pickles Özil JTUPFRONT njhtdgs (imago), Monday, 16 September 2013 13:49 (ten years ago) link
shelvey is trash, utterly mindless player
― гір кривбас кривий ріг (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Friday, 6 September 2013 12:24 (1 week ago)
― Lama Bloody SwagYurt (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 16 September 2013 19:38 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/10/uefa-internationals-nations-league-friendlies
this seems a bad idea on many leves, if people don't care about friendlies, why would they care about a "league" you just invented?don't friendlies offer the chance to play against competition at a different level, which the proposed divisions would eliminate?
but it would be a good way to find out how bad England are. what do you reckon, third division? fourth?
― mizzell, Thursday, 10 October 2013 16:58 (ten years ago) link
Nah. Solid 10th position in Second Division.
― The normative power of the factual (Michael White), Thursday, 10 October 2013 17:06 (ten years ago) link
We're not talking about Leeds, hohoho!
― check yr poptimism (imago), Thursday, 10 October 2013 17:10 (ten years ago) link
Probably accurate for the USA too
― check yr poptimism (imago), Thursday, 10 October 2013 17:11 (ten years ago) link
LOL, Leeds are currently 14th.
― The normative power of the factual (Michael White), Thursday, 10 October 2013 17:15 (ten years ago) link
We've got you lot soon. Fun-o-rama
― check yr poptimism (imago), Thursday, 10 October 2013 17:20 (ten years ago) link
Who's your team, imago?
― The normative power of the factual (Michael White), Thursday, 10 October 2013 17:34 (ten years ago) link
The once-visible Addicks
― check yr poptimism (imago), Thursday, 10 October 2013 18:03 (ten years ago) link
ho ho looking at the top rated English players in the Prem for the last couple of years based on their 'whoscored' rating throws up some truly tragic potential England elevens. Crouch being the top rated English striker from last season does make me ponder whether there is any value in what WhoScored does tbh.
http://www.whoscored.com/Blog/nmya1tsyyem7vi5oeflrla/Show/League-Focus-Performances-of-Englishmen-Up-From-Last-Season
― pandemic, Thursday, 10 October 2013 20:55 (ten years ago) link
the Liverpool crest looks awful in miniature
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 10 October 2013 21:07 (ten years ago) link
fucking gerrard
― imago, Friday, 11 October 2013 19:24 (ten years ago) link
― imago, Friday, October 11, 2013 7:24 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― imago, Friday, 11 October 2013 19:37 (ten years ago) link
i would add that, in Gerrard's defence, he can't help being as shit as he is now, and he didn't pick himself for this crucial World Cup qualifier.
― I like to tackle hard and am crazy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 11 October 2013 19:38 (ten years ago) link
didn't he?
― Number None, Friday, 11 October 2013 19:39 (ten years ago) link
He texted Redknapp and told him to pick him.
― Matt DC, Friday, 11 October 2013 19:40 (ten years ago) link
that was shit from Rooney
― Number None, Friday, 11 October 2013 19:40 (ten years ago) link
i dunno, i don't think Hodgson is in thrall to the usual suspects like some previous managers, i just think he's got no fucking imagination.
― I like to tackle hard and am crazy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 11 October 2013 19:40 (ten years ago) link
Also there's only Wilshere and Cleverley to play there anyway.
― Matt DC, Friday, 11 October 2013 19:47 (ten years ago) link
carrick ffs
― imago, Friday, 11 October 2013 19:47 (ten years ago) link
pretty sure England's Englishest Englishman Jacques Houillecherre wd've been a better bet than the wheezing corpse of Stevie Me
― I like to tackle hard and am crazy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 11 October 2013 19:48 (ten years ago) link
^this too
― imago, Friday, 11 October 2013 19:48 (ten years ago) link
Keep forgetting about Carrick.
― Matt DC, Friday, 11 October 2013 19:55 (ten years ago) link
Fabian Delph highest rated midfielder in the league iirc
― Third Rate Zoo Keepers With Tenth Rate Minds (Windsor Davies), Friday, 11 October 2013 19:58 (ten years ago) link