Tragic Football Stories - Let us Kick Around the misshapen Jabulani that is English football right here

the coaching thing is interesting, especially when you look at say the u21s. like psycho followed by gareth southgate, both managers on the way down from failed topflight careers. doesn't really say much about investment in youth. surely at the worst you give this job to a hungry guy who's looking to prove self rather than someone already proven to be rubbish.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2411847/West-Brom-forward-Saido-Berahinos-journey-streets-Burundi-England-Under-21s.html

‘It’s not like here where kids have PS3s and the internet'

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-chairman-blasts-premier-4802779

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-lodge-young-player-2033504

Albion’s biggest gripe is that each Category One youngster has a set ‘price’ of £209,000 (not including add-ons for U-12 to U-16s, not including add-ons for eventual appearances) which Peace feels renders his own club’s academy as a loss-making venture.

“Why are we spending £2.5million to be another club’s academy? We’ve invested in the infrastructure and we’ll see what happens over the next year. But from what we’re seeing so far it’s very disappointing.

“We’ve brought in a whole load of staff, all these facilities and then a club can come along with £200k and say ‘here you go, thank you very much’.

“It’s irritating me because it’s about the big clubs, not about clubs like us. Perhaps £2.5million would be better spent bringing in a player rather than spending it every year on the academy."

I think Southgate has some sensible thoughts along these lines but the positive impact that any U21 coach can have is extremely limited. In any case, by the time they get to U21 level the damage has been done. If the FA are serious about improving the technical quality of English players they need to start much much earlier.

and as i think Nilmar illustrates they need to either wrest control of youth development back from Premier League clubs or, more plausibly, impose much stricter control on the way the elite clubs develop young players

disagree about coaches not being able to have a positive impact on the players. stuart pearce is the guy who stuck david james up front when he was desperate for a goal remember. performances in the summer gave me the impression that they just didn't know what the plan was, and that comes from the coach. not as sold on this 'technically shite' argument as i think i used to be either.

i can see how the current wave of technically accomplished young English footballers might give the lie to that argument

nobody who knew shit about fitba could watch an england youth team game and not notice how risibly shit the basic control of 80% of players is

the rare exceptions tend to come from the few academies where half of the other players and coaching staff are from abroad

they play in tramlines even when not playing 442, everything is vertical or to the wings

this latest thing is more idle dogshit probably, the fa have no significant power over private institutions who can and will and should do what the fuck they want, but it would rather not admit it so continue to dissimulate wrt to their capacities and ~relevance~

Dyke was perfectly happy to enhance his reputation as a straight talking, no-nonsense leader, a bit of a geezer, while taking care to stress he was not offering the Premier League outside for a fight.

just sayin whatever

the english already have their own league for english british irish whatever players, the champo will continue to suit their characteristics and the revenues and wages are comparable to mid-lower tier la liga teams so nativists can be reassured that native workers will still get jobs

the current english nt is shit largely because the current generation who ought to be at their best right now, born from 1982 to 1987 or so, are with few exceptions dreadful: the succeeding generation looks rather better and should be able to maintain the borderline respectable achievements of 2002-2006

the best players of 1989-1993 show a gradual move to a higher basic technical level driven by the main cl sides and a few outliers like southampton, and by a process of diffusion this will ever so slowly reach to the rest of the epl

let the right Carroll in

then at youth level the emphasis on demonstrable, short term success with the youth teams rather than nurturing individual players tends to produce legions of barely competent players

This is otm for Celtic. They crow about winning youth and U19 leagues year on year but have delivered all of one (frequently broken) player in years, with one or two others making the odd bench/glorious winner vs Barcelona before being farmed out on loan. Every year we see a bunch of kids parade their league trophy around Celtic Park then never see them again.

the best players of 1989-1993 show a gradual move to a higher basic technical level driven by the main cl sides and a few outliers like southampton, and by a process of diffusion this will ever so slowly reach to the rest of the epl

England appear to be producing an awful lot of good pacy wingers, wide forwards and explosive if slightly flaky fullbacks and not that much else. Central midfield in particular is something of a desert, especially given that Wilshere looks unlikely to play a full season in the forseeable future and people like Tom Cleverly are not going to get any better than they already are. I can't even remember if people like Jack Rodwell are even any good.

What about this young Barkley fellow at Everton?

England have always produced good pacy wingers who can consistently beat their man to the touchline before crossing it into the opposite stand.

and the fullbacks are not 'slightly flaky' they are pacy non-footballers, or at best non-defenders, with only a very few very notable exceptions.

yeah thats pretty much not true at all when the best young english player is a cm, although wilshere is just about the best of any age, and rodwell is the best u20 player and he will end up a cm, and wenger intends to develop aoc to play more centrally

england fbs are mostly imbecile runners like kyle walker or like.....carl jenkinson

their wingers aren't worth shit either in the grand scheme of things, even zaha is completely unproven and nobody would rate him over much younger players like bakkali

ugh rodwell = barkley

rodwell himself is better than any fb/winger but he is very english in his dynamism and lack of concentration or composure

gonna have to step in here - jenks far more aware a defender than walker

yeah i wasnt categorizing jenkinson with walker i was saying he is his own thing

Wilshere is the best young English player by some distance but appears to be particularly injury prone. Rodwell's also had his problems and City doesn't really look like a great environment for him to be developing in.

People like Sterling and Townsend may well progress but yes they are unproven and don't look like world class players in the making.

Nothing to do with Pellegrini as a coach, they're just stocked with much better options. I'm still not convinced by AOC, steam train athleticism notwithstanding.

sterling is good but he seems to be a horrible little cunt and could go either way
townsend is epl level but not technically good enough to step up to cl level
redmond was the best u21 player this summer and should be a good player

jonjo shelvey

are any of these better than jermaine pennant was at the same age

and he has had a quietly half decent career, which is the sort of level this lot should aspire to

zaha has the size to maybe become more of a direct threat

connor wickham ftw

shelvey is trash, utterly mindless player

Also England's long-term prospects at CF look utterly dreadful, only Sturridge is worth the time of day and he's a greedy cock as well.

Welbeck?

sturridge is the only english cf in years who even looks like a natural striker rather than a converted sprinter or a 6'3 200lb lump like wickham

welbeck doesn't do it for me tbh but people have been getting more excited about him

sturridge has v good vision and seems to have worked on his finishing

welbeck doesn't seem to have the right instincts, tho he has good physical and reasonably good technical traits

being a greedy cock is forgivable in a CF as long as he delivers regular goals, my concern for Studge wd be the extent to which he's a confidence player

i've been quite impressed by how sturridge uses the ball, he will actually bide time until there's a worthwhile pass, gives "holding it up" a new meaning, rather than it describing a player whom you can hoof the ball at.

xposts

Welbeck is good but is never going to be prolific and is better suited to a deeper role I think.

I've just realised how long it's been since I watched an England game.

the reason i bumped the liverpool thread yesterday is that i consider them to be playing the best football in england right now, sturridge is a big part of that

There are lot of players who could do a serviceable job on one side of a main striker but hardly anyone who can play that role in the middle.

Sturridge is excellent, you're lucky to have him. The worry might be that when Carroll hits a run of form/fitness, it's going to be very hard for any England manager to resist him.

anyway the important thing is that even if its nowhere near as good as the best countries, this gen is way better than the mid80s lot

go look at a prospects list in 2005, bentley, reocoker, jenas, curtis davies, carlton cole, scott carson etc etc

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/7999/cfnq.jpg

poor Roy's really been thrown a hospital ball here

That generation has mostly just disappeared from the squad altogether, it's either really young and inexperienced players or old stalwarts like Gerrard and Lampard. The exceptions are relative late bloomers like Cahill and Baines although the continued presence of wooden horse James Milner is depressing.

james milner is the prince of this rotten borough, twp the king in exile vomitting up another round of roast dolphin and krug somewhere in monte carlo

go look at a prospects list in 2005, bentley, reocoker, jenas, curtis davies, carlton cole, scott carson etc etc

i wonder will there be a group of jaded late 20's/eary 30's wasters on a forum somewhere in 2021 looking at names such as those listed itt and listing them in the same tone of disgust tho?

i hate international weekends btw

^^

pretty sure there'll be a group of jaded late 30's/eary 40's wasters on a forum somewhere in 2021 looking at names such as those listed itt and listing them in the same tone of disgust anyway

nah we'll be in our 40s and 50s by then

deems that is mad insight but im describing the players as they are now, wilshere sturridge walcott etc are already better than they ever were

Not sure any of em have replicated bentleys saison d'etre at blackburn tbrr

im wilshere sceptic and on record as such probly ad nauseum by now.