the kniφe - shaking the habitual

http://i.imgur.com/wmaIKNE.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dd2bwqE.png

based on the two songs I've heard, this album will PWN

my friend said the girl in the tooth for an eye video looks like she works for foot locker -_-

surely we could have had a searchable display name

I said "it's great to see Lady Sovereign is still getting work" but I can't remember if that was here or Facebook ;_;

surely we could have had a searchable display name

― max, Friday, March 22, 2013 11:23 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

this concern did enter my mind but i vetod it

tlc's cover of 'if i was your girlfriend' came on and for a sec i thought i was listening to a leak due to divine providence

i figure if people feel the need to start a thread for this album, ilx's thread-starter thingy will show em this... and if people want to find discussion about this album 5 years later but only search for 'the knife' well... THATS ON THEM

a lisp saying "the nice"

I don't know anything about Shannon Funchess and Emily Roydson, who are they? are they good?

Shannon Funchess is the singer from Light Asylum:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB4qc7y-o60

She used to sing w/ !!! occasionally as well. I DJ'd with her and her partner and Martin from A Certain Ratio a few months ago. They played a lot of freestyle.

Smack dab in the middle of the new Knife album comes a track called "Old Dreams Waiting to Be Realized". It consists of precisely 19 minutes and 22 seconds worth of ominous ambient drone.

http://pitchfork.com/features/interviews/9092-the-knife/

the highlights on this album are basically astonishing

also i couldn't be bov'd to get into it on the other thread but those "LOL MIND BLOWN" snark posts about the things they've been saying were an ilm nadir for real

what do you think of the 19 minute track?

it happened and it was vaguely spooky at one point and i am fairly sure i'm not going to listen to it again

does the album bear much relation to tomorrow in a year?

no idea, can't remember what TIAY sounded like

This is the first album from an established band that I can remember in... forever where I have genuinely no idea what it's going to sound like in its entirety.

Pre-ordered the vinyl the day it was announced. Today I got this email:

Dear The Knife Fan,
 
Thank you for your recent purchase of the Shaking the Habitual Vinyl.
 
Unfortunately, due to an unforeseen production delay the date of dispatch for all pre-orders of this item has now been delayed. We have been advised that the shipping date for this vinyl is now the week commencing the 22nd April 2013. We will be in touch again as soon as your order has left the warehouse.
 
We would like to thank you in advance for your co-operation and patience with us and we are sure the record will prove worth the wait.
 
Kindest regards,
 
Sandbag Ltd

:'( but I think my purchase included the digital version, which should be available on the 8th/9th.

Not sure I can deal with the hassle of double vinyl. I'll probably stick to CD

Triple vinyl. And at 180 grams each, it's over a pound of The Knife!

what do you think of the 19 minute track?

Not a highlight, imo. TIAY-style ambient, but less dramatic. Disappointed in that one, as I envisioned something much more ambitious.

I really want this to leak or for it to be available to stream. I'm so tempted to preorder the vinyl but I just can't be sure I'm going to love it enough to justify spending that much. I like the singles so far but a nineteen minute ambient drone track does not tempt me at all. I just could not get into Tomorrow in a Year at all and like others have mentioned on here it seems like it might be more of a follow up to that.

also i couldn't be bov'd to get into it on the other thread but those "LOL MIND BLOWN" snark posts about the things they've been saying were an ilm nadir for real

How? I'd like people to express themselves in ways that actually capture imagination or provoke original thought/debate.

let's just say i don't consider that pull quote either trite or wrong or obvious, and i do think it's something that still needs to be said, along with all the non-musical points about privilege the band are making at the moment, because even if you're totally, like, ovah it, this stuff is still endemic

fair enough, tbh it's more the paper i'd be irked with for sensationalising dissent. i haven't read interviews beyond that one.

putting a pull quote on the cover isn't really sensationalising it, is it, it's in keeping with several guide covers i've seen

quite nice that it is there though, that way it gets in the brains of people who don't have an active interest in the knife or even music and who might not read the actual interview

Which other thread, and which article? The Sam Richards piece from a week ago?

Streaming over on Pitchfork

http://pitchfork.com/advance/62-shaking-the-habitual/

listening the shit out of this thing right now and enjoying it hugely

sounds like burning man

D:

: (

I love how much some of this is going to annoy people. Already seeing people on facebook saying 'I COULDN'T MAKE IT THROUGH THE 20 MINUTE TRACK AND TURNED IT OFF OMG'

it's pretty intense.

intense like a nightclub in the movie "the crow"

So it sounds like Medicine?

wishing this song would end, pt 3

sigh already tired of how ~divisive~ this will be

i think the high points are quite astonishingly high, and also the 20-minute drone is useless, as is the 10-minute fracking one, and whatever the other drone one was

'Wrap Your Arms Around Me' sounds a lot like Dead Can Dance! enjoying this so far

"Networking" is immense but v much like an Oni Ayhun track.

They've sort of made a techno version of the last couple of Scott Walker records. Probably why I like it so much.

what I might like most about this is how it stops people using the lazy description "this sounds like the Knife" for EVERYTHING

until everything starts sounding like this

this is pretty wack

Might sound crazy but this sure as hell feels like a new Creatures album, and I mean that with full approval. Now that Siouxsie and Budgie are pretty well split on all levels, this doesn't so much take its place as stakes out its own particular space. Anyway, this is great stuff.

Given they're not actually that good at ambient/drone, I'm not sure we really need 35mins or so of it here. The rest I'm still getting my head around.

I'm enjoying said drone...but I would.

I like the drone too. The long one sounds like Chatham's Two Gongs.

loving the drums on this. the ambient tracks aren't bad, but drag a little. all in all, they create a great atmosphere for the record, though.

"without you my life would be boring", "wrap your arms around me", "stay out here" and "ready to lose" are stunning imo

It will have to be a banner year for this not to make my best of 2013 list.

Third full listen and this is a phenomenal piece of work. Can't wait to spend some time with this on headphones. It's moved the goalposts so far ahead of everyone that copied them over the past few years. And fortunately for me even further into the dark foreboding territory that I am a total sucker for.

would like to read an enthusiastic defence of the 19-min drone

It sets the stage for "Raging Lung" really well

you can't kill that many civilians in just 19 minutes

actually "fracking fluid injection" might be more indefensible

i mean, i guess it sounds like fracking might? well done?

Old Dreams would be totally fine if it was no longer than five minutes long. It kind of reminds me of the Chromatics album which has a great start but then half way through is just killed by those boring instrumental tracks. Like that album I think this would be just brilliant if it was edited down.

Agree with Lex that Without you my life would be boring and Wrap your arms around me are amazing.

can someone make a gif of sunglasses falling onto an unmanned drone & then it says "drone with it"

I believe "Old Dreams Waiting to be Realized" could easily supplant some of the soundtrack currently used near the end 2001: A Space Odyssey, particularly, the Star Gate sequence.

My defense of the drone is simple. It places the band in a context of "the Coil that mainstream music press talk about" instead of "the M83 that make you uncomofortable" and I like Coil a fuck of a lot more than M83.
It basically guarantees you can't approach this as a pop record. Forces you to evaluate what they're doing by a different set of yardsticks.

oh so it's not to do with the music then

i'm into the drone now

it's a nice lil drone

there are little things that happen, noises and chittering and stuff
it's a nice quality drone so far

around 10 some rhythmic tones and melody comes in

Lex, my defense of the drone would be - I like drone, drone is good. I like this drone in this context.

Assuming that most people's dislike is based on them not liking drone I was defending it's use in context.

13 mins the drone is growing more powerful
i fear it may consume us all

16 the drone grows stronger still
now what sounds like tapping on hollow pieces of wood
some static in the right channel

built to a nice climax
now it's done

nice drone! it's not formless, had development and drama, would drone again

leeds quite nicely into the next song "Raging Lung", which has a bit of a Flowers of Romance vibe

Really interested to see how this will be review this week. It's only had six reviews on there so far but at the moment it has 89 on Metacritic. Silent Shout only got 74. I love that going through the Silent Shout ratings you get to Q magazine's one star review right at the bottom..

A hideous mess of electro noodling and maddeningly obtuse, tuneless vocals. [May 2006, p.126]

I wonder just what they'll make of this one?

i like how the last seconds of raging lung segue back into a short drone, seems like it's all pretty planned out and sequenced in a cool way. drone is great!

but yeah i think the drone is interesting in itself and also i think makes the album feel different more expansive and better for what it does to the pacing, don't know if that's what u wanted lex but i have positive feelings about it and i'm not some hussy that falls for every drone i meet

would like to read an enthusiastic defence of the 19-min drone

If you insist...

Really getting into A Cherry on Top

would have been a cool april fools day joke if pitchfork had put up the stream yday but it was actually jane's addiction - ritual de lo habitual

does everyone know that 7. "Old Dreams Waiting to Be Realized" 19:22 is not included with the standard CD issue of this album. it is only going to be on the deluxe version for around $10 more and comes with a two CD set.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B9JDBSY/ref=s9_simh_gw_p15_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=04WJ99XAASTT9CAJ3CQS&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938811&pf_rd_i=507846

$6.85 isn't really "around $10"

i was going from memory but $7 was close

like I wasn't buying the deluxe version of this album no matter what

Really liked this on first listen to the Pitchfork stream but I couldn't get the 19-min track to play all the way through despite trying several times. I take it no one else had trouble?

everyone else had trouble because everyone who bought all of the other Knife albums was trying to stream this today

Ha, OK, fair point.

I'm really enjoying “Wrap Your Arms Around Me”. I was going to say that the track sounds sorta-Dead Can Dance-ish, but reading Ned's remark about The Creatures I can totally see that too.

does everyone know that 7. "Old Dreams Waiting to Be Realized" 19:22 is not included with the standard CD issue of this album. it is only going to be on the deluxe version for around $10 more and comes with a two CD set.

― Bee OK

On Amazon.co.uk it's 50p more to get the single disc version, they are charging us more not to own that song.

I was all ready to buy the vinyl version (it does have much better artwork) but think I'll be getting that single disc CD now.

Andersson is the happy mother of two children and by no means a dark or haunting individual. She is a woman who Skypes with her brother (Olaf now lives in Berlin) and talks freely about her obsession with Miami Vice. In one of the rare instances of emotion, Andersson becomes animated when discussing the hit 80s television show. “I really like watching old Miami Vice,” she confirms as I await some deep musically inspired reason. “It looks so good when it’s warm dark nights and they just go out driving their boats and everything. It looks really nice,” Karin reaffirms with a bit of a chuckle.

Kinda reminds me of Beth Gibbons in interviews, way less fraught than image suggests.

generally speaking, the people who are actually that fraught kill themselves or go crazy

Minor differences.

One of the most impractical pieces of music i know of is a 3-pc 50-minute Guyuto Monk chant that resonates and echoes far more impressively in the silence that follows the end of it's audition. I imagine that "Old Dreams Waiting to Be Realized" is an entire album side, and thus (will require a new slab of vinyl, and), should only be continued once the listener can reconcile themselves to a new thought. Five minutes of silence would seem appropriate, but, to each their own.

Reference: The Gyuto Monks: Freedom Chants from the Roof of the World

They should do real songs instead of mindless drones.

bloody hipster monks.

After seeing the horror on display everywhere I was surprised to like the drone piece, I like drone generally but even beyond that this seemed narratively interesting in a way that drone often isn't. But I'll have to save my thoughts on how it sits in the album as a whole for when I haven't fallen asleep a couple of tracks after it.

I don't get the vibe that this isn't a classic-sounding knife album. It's The Knife's general sound decomposed of its pop melodies/elements. The drone piece mirrors/was prefaced by tracks like "The Captain" on Silent Shout, tracks that took awhile to get to the melody/heart of the piece and showed their ability for restraint. This is like that magnified. Moving through the entirety of it is pretty awesome, especially prefaced by the assault of "Crake," and outro-ed with silence, as someone mentioned upthread. And then followed up with a gentle melody and emotional lyrics. It's an experience and a space, not a pop song, as others have noted too. And the third or fourth song is reminiscent of the sounds used on "Kino" in their debut. Distorted voices, brassy sounds, steel drums punctuating the tracks; very The Knife.

*Moving through the drone piece

Yeah I'm not sure this is as radical a departure from Silent Shout as is being made out, there are a lot of familiar elements in here that have been arranged into more awkward shapes, but it's very defineably a Knife album.

Not going to listen to this again until I can do so on headphones though.

def thought of "the captain" at several points on this

Everybody will find this cool at a first listening but few will feel like revisiting the 98 minutes of this record again

Hmm. Does that make me one of the few, then?

I really liked about a third of this and was underwhelmed by the rest but I can tell it'll be a grower

Ha, since Tomorrow in a Year is the only other Knife album I own, this actually seems like a step back in comparison.

I like the atmosphere of this album and I don't have problems with long tracks. But I don't see strong hooks there.

Her singing sounds a bit like Kim Gordon in some of these new tunes

Ha! I was thinking the same.

currently loving Stay Out Here, feels a lot like a Chris & Cosey track circa Trance

surprisingly great record for a long run.

the association with Jane's Addiction makes the album title annoying

apparently there'll be a rough trade bonus cd with remixes from pursuit grooves, rroxymore and COOLY G omggggg

rroxymore released this pretty good single on dfa last year

http://soundcloud.com/dfa-records/rroxymore-wheel-of-fortune

Listening for the first time away from a 128kbps stream and OOFT. So much better. That extra level of dynamics really ups the listenability.
My Coil reference earlier seems pretty spot on. "Old Dreams Waiting To Be Realised" is basically "Queen of the Circulating Library" without the kitsch voiceover.

Not so much a dream collaboration of Bjork, Dead Can Dance, and Coil as their collaborative mixtape.

I'm predicting Pitchfork gives this 8.7

Guardian gives it three stars. Lucky to get that really, from what I've heard.

https://soundcloud.com/dazedandconfused/the-knife-a-tooth-for-an-eye

^ Cooly G remix

WTF was up with all that "we did a lot of research about gender politics" line in interviews? How does that manifest itself?

that remix is great

i like the way cooly's line of thinking appears to have been "first i'm going to change the beat, then i'm going to change everything else about the song"

Not so much a dream collaboration of Bjork, Dead Can Dance, and Coil as their collaborative mixtape.

Three acts I wouldn't mind never hearing again in my life.

http://www.spin.com/articles/the-knife-shaking-the-habitual-interview

these folks are so rad

The album's "Old Dreams" creates a strong contrast with the more rhythmic material on the album. It's long, it's quiet, you need to turn up the volume for it — it's really the opposite of the way people listen to music on YouTube and their phones.

no disrespect to Phil but you know, I don't see how occasionally using my phone or YouTube suddenly mean I don't have a volume dial or a brain.

well you dont

are you saying i don't have a brain or making a point about volume dials? i'm on yellow alert here.

Her's the Pursuit Grooves remix - http://www.gorillavsbear.net/2013/04/05/premiere-the-knife-a-tooth-for-an-eye-pursuit-grooves-remix/

the german spiegel online gave this 9.5, i don't think they give such high notes very often.

Was in Bristol yesterday and Rise Records had the CDs of this on sale already, so I picked up the double. Just stuck it on the big hifi and it sounds AMAZING. Not heard a note except very very distractedly on 6music prior, so coming into this blind.

I'm predicting Pitchfork gives this 8.7

― crowhurst, Friday, April 5, 2013 6:38 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

close...

*dies of shock*

Was expecting them to get excited enough to 9.something it, honestly.

i dont really get why they would give it 8.4 and best new music when there are albums that get more than that and dont get BNM? do they basically have to give it that honor because it's ~The Knife~?

BNM doesnt correlate completely with scores

youll have to ask a pitchforkologist but i think like, a high 8 score but no BNM means 'really good genre album'

whereas a 'MBDTF' means "we're gonna troll everybody and get some of those unique ip addresses by putting a '1' in front of the '0.0'"

lots of backhanded slaps at their first album in that review

Listened to this album this morning... enjoyed it for the most part, but probably won't be listening to the whole thing in one sitting too often.

that review pisses me off because the debut is so so so so SO much better than Deep Cuts

Keith Fullerton Whitman's Playthroughs received a 9.7 about the time Best New Music was just starting but did not receive the distinction. I asked Ryan Schreiber about this once and although he said he personally loved the album, it simply didn't have wide enough appeal to merit a BNM.

haha i was waiting for u to post that and on cue xp

lol

I mean, I do love "Pass This On" and "You Make Me Like Charity" and "You Take My Breath Away" etc but "Heartbeats" is overrated and most of the other fantastic songs are Hannah Med H material

meanwhile the debut has gloriously weird, understated stuff like "Neon", "Lasagna", "A Lung", "NY Hotel" and "Reindeer", all of which pretty clearly signpost the various odd directions they've branched out in starting with Silent Shout

Does anyone actually care what does and doesn't go into BNM other than lamers who want to be spoonfed everything?

Proposing an automatic threadban for anyone who's all 'Let's predict the Pitchfork score!' on an anticipation thread as well.

my wh4t.cd ratio appreciates it

Thatcher's death is gonna get a 9.3 next week

you have the power to make it happen xp

Anyone who takes it below 10.0 is a scab imo.

I wonder, can we take Brent D's Kid A review and replace all of the Radiohead references with Thatcher references and still have it be awesome?

Does anyone actually care what does and doesn't go into BNM other than lamers who want to be spoonfed everything?

― Matt DC, Monday, April 8, 2013 4:09 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Proposing an automatic threadban for anyone who's all 'Let's predict the Pitchfork score!' on an anticipation thread as well.

― Matt DC, Monday, April 8, 2013 4:11 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

for fucking real

I don't like this either but actually seeing people complain about it makes me want to start a rolling "predict the Pitchfork score" thread because, well, I have a sickness

It got three-and-a-half stars in the Chislehurst Chronicle, by the way.

it's bad enough that there are so many weirdo p4k-watchers but even worse is the obsession with "bnm" and the exact fucking decimal score and then nobody can be fucked to discuss what was actually WRITTEN

obviously some arbitrary little label is much more important though

What if there was betting involved? Would it be fun then?

Talking about BNM usually happens because we know that tag affects record sales/overall attention dramatically and collectively shapes tastes in the indie world.

okay where's my popcorn

Not saying I think there is any value in predicting exact scores at all.

I like BNM as an indicator of, like, what's getting lots of traction and stuff but I certainly don't listen to BNM stuff exclusively

maybe I am a dumb indie sheep :(

ayo dudes i dont really care about BNM u can chill

It's not the only thing ever to do this to me but my first listen to this album reminded me of the super intense time I turned on the tv in the middle of the night at 10 years old and saw the entirety of Gregg Araki's The Living End.

I listened to this on headphones for the first time today and it's kind of monstrous. Although I can't work out if the drums and flutes on Without You My Life Would Be Boring are endearingly wonky or unspeakably naff. There's a distinct air of 'midday jam session in tiny Glastonbury hippy tent' about it.

'Stay Out Here' is amazing.

Endearingly wonky IMO.

There's lots of moments here that insistently and incessantly whisper '1989' to me for as yet unfathomed reasons.

"full of fire" is really growing on me - not sure if its hooks are digging in to me with time or whether, now i have the whole album, it doesn't have the weight of being wholly representative. a lot of the hooks here are in the rhythms and arrangements rather than the vocal line. also, i love how angry it is. echoes of digital hardcore

"wrap your arms around me" is the album's towering monolithic emotional peak though

LET'S TALK ABOUT GENDER BABY LET'S TALK ABOUT U & ME in the last 30 seconds is some "fancy"-level switch-up

Yeah Full of Fire sounds fantastic at high volume. In general where this album sags it's where it's not weird ENOUGH, or when they're attempting to be weird and uncompromising in fairly well-trodden ways.

Wrap Your Arms Around Me is fantastic as well.

Agreed with the above, it sounds amazing in the context of the album.

Love the brief house vamp style vocal near the beginning of "Stay Out Here", it's like Nightmares on Wax's "Aftermath".

friend of mine says the first 45 min of this are "unlistenable", t/f

omg yes xp

bits of this remind me a lot of their erstwhile collaborator & onetime imitator planningtorock, too

"Heartbeats" is overrated
― relentless technosexuality (DJP)

Please tell me you've never heard the live version.

i'm gonna buy the vinyl today and even though it comes with a cd, i don't have any cd drives at all so i'll probably have to pirate it in the end to actually listen to it on the computer (lol)

unless the vinyl comes with a free download code...............

what do you think of it - thought you didn't like it?

oh i loved the first single, i've been torturing myself in not letting myself listen to streams/youtubes until it was properly released

oh! i misinterpreted your sadface upthread then

i pretty much unreservedly love this now, i don't find it that difficult or unlistenable, apart from the two tracks which are obviously meant to be difficult and unlistenable and which can be easily ignored (and obv like once a year i'll have the time & patience to listen to the 19-min drone and i'm not going to mind)

ah, my D: was at caek's description than at the music

fresh in my inbox: http://theknife.net/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Shaking+The+Habitual+out+now

er https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F37Yg17-JQ

http://www.tinymixtapes.com/music-review/the-knife-shaking-the-habitual

this is fucking bizarre

"an album so good, it transcends criticism, but is also a large failure because of such"

is what i'm gleaming from this buffoonery

Seems like a stunt to get hits to the webpage.

that video interview reminds me of an snl skit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxQ6olQjebg

although it looks like they would be good at making some video collage/spoken word thingys.

i think "a cherry on top" just broke my brain

those hollow ringing sounds at the beginning of full of fire are very martin hannett, she's lost control type harrowing sounds

i'm so glad i decided not to burn myself out on the singles before picking this up - this is awesome, i am in awe. oh my god

This is excellent mopping-the-floor music. I'm using this stuff.

all of the tracks aren't on spotify

not good

Was just noticing the same. Are the missing tracks essential or are they all abstract drones?

hahaha i have no idea, but i'd like to hear the whole album.

i just got this on single CD, without that 19 minute song. have not heard a note of this as of yet, so excited about hearing this for the first time.

i just got this on single CD, without that 19 minute song. have not heard a note of this as of yet, so excited about hearing this for the first time.

― Bee OK

What's the packaging like for the single disc version? I have only seen the double disc version in the shops so far and it looks really nice. It's a cardboard sleeve that folds out into some extra artwork or something. I was thinking of getting the single disc but I'm easily seduced by fancy packaging.

get the 3xLP it comes w/ the cds

i ordered it online, so i will tell you in a few days. Amoeba is about an hour away. i think it's just a standard jewel case type of thing. i didn't want two CD's with one song i will only play once in awhile.

xpost

i should buy the LP's as i have quite a few of those. the problem is the newer stuff is all on CD's (or mp3's) and most of the stuff i have on vinyl is older.

Okay thanks. Yeah I think the double disc idea is great for this album. I don't hate the nineteen minute track as much as I thought I would but it spoils the flow of the album and I know I will want to skip it most times I play it. I think i'd go with the flashy artwork though as they are around the same price.

get the 3xLP it comes w/ the cds

― 乒乓

Yeah I did consider this especially as I like the artwork for the vinyl a little more. It's just a little too expensive for me at the moment.

i really like it when they step on the gas and go full crazy. 'networking'!!!

the best song about linkedin ever written

well, since i can't listen to all of this i guess i'll go listen to silent shout

i don't know if it's stepping on the pedal so much as letting the sail out

"Stay out here" has a sick sy/NIN electro vibe. Propellant track. hi hat's dope. But it has those wack-ass rusted root vocals.

Tiny Mix Tapes review is harder to get through than the 19-minute ambient drone

"Absorbing the girth of this behemoth in one fell swoop is rigorous and harrowing"

Awkward? Maybe not

I don't mind the 19-minute drone at all! Although I do agree that it breaks the flow of the album...

i really like it when they step on the gas and go full crazy. 'networking'!!!

― 乒乓, Wednesday, April 10, 2013 3:02 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

One of my highlights of the album, that.

My Favourite is Ranging Lung, it's sexual as the knife gets

The first half of Networking is as described above, but it loses steam and I just kind of wait for it to end.

all of the tracks are now available on spotify except for one

it doesn't make much sense

The first half of Networking is as described above, but it loses steam and I just kind of wait for it to end.

― azaera, Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:47 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I disagree - it could go on for, yes, 19 minutes and I wouldn't complain at all.

haven't read the thread at all, but does anyone know of a good source of info regarding which of these tracks are available on spotify, preferably with frequent updates?

looks like all of them but 8. Raging Lung atm?

this album is a lot better than i thought it would be, enjoying it so much more on the third listen than i did on the first.

They've sort of made a techno version of the last couple of Scott Walker records.

otm

finally having a real listenthrough of this

it's astonishingly great

"Stay Out Here" is A++ material

love the 19 min track tbqf

First listen through: endurance test.

Second listen through: "this is getting better..."

Third listen through: "FUCKING HELL, I'M IN LOVE WITH THIS RECORD!"

waiting for "Fracking Fluid Injection" to unfurl its mysteries.

Best Buy selling the single disc for $7.99!

"Ready to Lose" and "Wrap Your Arms Around Me" are the songs I've played most.

Listened a couple of times and really liked it, but now I'm holding off for the vinyl, I think. (I'll probably only last a day)

not listened to them much prior but absolutely loving this. therapeutic listening.

This is awesome. People need to be bigging up Tomorrow In A Year too though.

I fucking love the drums on 'Full Of Fire'.

still debating whether to get the single or doube CD version

Double.

Not that the 19-minute drone is essential, or whatever, I just think it makes sense. Two 45-ish minute blocks being easier to take in, perhaps.

I actually think the drone performs the same function on the album as 'Treefingers' does on Kid A, it's a bit of an opportunity to zone out/get ones breath back before the next batch.

[Go and make a cup of tea.]

But yeah, I like albums that have 'absent' tracks like that. Another Green World is almost made up of 'em, seemingly.

Well yeah, 'Go and make a cup of tea' could apply too, depending on ones tolerance for 19-minute drones :P

yeah - since my wife has a low tolerance for experimental music, I generally listen to most of my music while driving or on iphone - so i'm not sure I need a 20 min drone in this context

Was given a very, very tight deadline for this review, so feedback would be appreciated if it's awful:
http://crackmagazine.net/music/the-knife/

Aside from starting a sentence with 'and' and using 'itself' twice in one sentence at the end, it seems like a very fair appraisal.

LET'STALKABOUTGENDERBA-BYYYY! LET'STALKABOUTYOU... AND ME!

did they always have a phi symbol in their name? wouldn't that make the pronunciation of their name "knifie," like hyphy?

This album is so serious it's hilarious. I don't know whether to cower or laugh, though both would be exhausting for 90 minutes. Like, why even make an album? I wish these guys just picked a place for a one-off performance of this in its entirety and got it over with.

I wish my wife were here right now so that I could see how long it would take her to tell me to turn this the fuck off.

would have really loved the tinymixtapes review if it was all like this:

"The process of Fracking involves pumping the ground with high-pressure fluid in an attempt to release shale gas. After it was discovered in 1947 as a homegrown measure for uncovering natural resources, plantations started emerging all over the States as a means of not having to rely as much on foreign imports. Consequently, the gas began to contaminate local water supplies, so much so that people living in nearby areas found their taps could quite easily ignite, the shocking footage of which laid at the heart of Josh Fox’s stunning documentary, Gasland."

whoever mentioned the Tiny Mix Tapes review, right on. god damn that was a shitshow

Its not just the phi. Most just don't notice the kapppa, nu, iota, and episilon in ΚΝΙΦΕ

went to the store to buy this today, but they didn't have the double-disc version. when i asked about it, clerk said they hadn't ordered any cuz the last album didn't sell very well. "not many knife fans in maine" she said smirkily, like i was trying to buy illicit nudes.

not many fans of illicit nude photos of members of the knife in maine

This sounds ridiculously good on vinyl.

so about that elf pee

This record is too commercial. It's like Fergie.

self-urinating?

i'm 150% sure that the knife's main inspiration for 'fracking fluid injection' was the forest temple music from ocarina of time

Man, 'Without You My Life Would Be Boring' is REALLY doing it for me right now.

picked this up yesterday on a foraging trip to civilization. listened to it three times in the car on the way around and back. not sure yet what to think. i can't say i don't miss the catchiness & concision of silent shout, which is starting to look like a minor stop on their road from electronic pop act to willfully challenging art project. though i wound up liking the fever ray album quite a bit, i was hoping the next proper knife album would be a bit less gloomily monochromatic. i suppose it is, but not at all in the way i'd imagined.

i do think it works quite well as a piece. i haven't yet been tempted to skip the ambient tracks, and i like most everything here. the attention to sonic detail is fascinating. one of the album's greatest pleasures is just listening to the textures and timbres subtly shift against one another. on first blush, at least, i do find myself longing for a bit more attention to and development of melody, especially in the vocals.

Has anyone got their vinyl yet? (I think someone upthread implied they had, but I can't be bothered checking every post)

the voice modulation on full of fire sounds like the max headroom incident

Saw the vinyl at my record store yesterday

yeah, it's about. went for the dbl cd instead, mostly due to half the price.

love the long screams in "a tooth for an eye", the way they slowly burn through the almost robotic restraint with which karin typically sings to become these jarringly physical, full-throated shrieks. kind of exhilarating.

Just annoying that I pre-ordered the vinyl, it's in stores, and they say it won't be shipped until the 22nd.

I pre-ordered the vinyl sometime late in the week before the street date and they shipped UPS and it got to me on Wednesday. Where did you pre-order? Mine was through the Mute webstore FWIW.

Mine was as well- bought through Mute, fulfilled through Insound, arrived on Wednesday. Maybe the vinyl delay mentioned upthread is only for the Rabid or Brille releases and not the domestic US on Mute?

I think mine was through Rabid Records?

First four songs on this album make up my favourite opening sequence in a long time, but I'm not gripped by the rest so far. Working on it.

listened a couple more times. "full of fire" is starting to feel really damn long. it wants to end at about seven, seven-and-a-half minutes, but cannot. the poor creature's desperation is pitiable, and yet there is nothing i can do to assuage it.

I'm on my fourth or fifth listen now, and I think "Full of Fire" gets longer every time.

I still love it!

Think 'Without You My Life Would Be Boring' may be my absolute highlight of this after several listens.

I was looking at this today. The single cd is a tenner, dbl is thirteen quid, so I'll be paying three quid for a nineteen minute drone piece. Do I really want that? I was hoping this thread might help but seems the song is question had divided people. (Thought - maybe I should get the single cd and download the drone track from Itunes? Wouldn't that be cheaper?)

Was in same quandary but convinced to buy double by this:

Double.

― they all are afflicted with a sickness of existence (Scik Mouthy), Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:59 AM (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Not that the 19-minute drone is essential, or whatever, I just think it makes sense. Two 45-ish minute blocks being easier to take in, perhaps.

― they all are afflicted with a sickness of existence (Scik Mouthy), Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:59 AM (4 days ago)

what are these "CDs" you people are dithering over

o yes i remember they're the things i have to import into itunes before listening to

lol you use itunes

easiest program to work by far

Easier than a CD player?

yes

duh

listening to this for the first time right now
Was expecting to not like it after a few minutes. All other Knife albums except TIAY are among my favourites but I've been anticipating an unlistenable mess - happily this isn't it.
'Wrap your arms around me' is good although I'm a little embarrassed to admit that when the vocals started it reminded me of the cover of 'tomorrow never knows' from the Sucker Punch soundtrack

The Sucker Punch soundtrack is the most weirdly compelling unlistenable mess

I never knew there was a version of this released as a single disc without the long drone piece. I can't think of any other albums that have been released normally and also in a truncated form (bonus track editions aside).

I'd go for the double disc version Rob. Not only is it the complete album as the band intended but I think it's probably a bit more digestible over two instalments.

My vinyl copy turned up today. This thing is a beast. Weighs a tonne. 3 LP's plus both the CD's and 12" size spazzy artwork for £19 seems like a great deal to me.

i picked my vinyl up for $25 or so, considering everything it comes w/ esp compared to other overpriced vinyl i was p pleased.

so i got my copy in the mail. i paid $7.99 for the single CD edition. they wanted $10 for the second disc with a 19 minute song i did not want.

so for those who were asking, the single CD edition is in a card board case. not a jewel case as i suspected. so i think it is just like the 2CD edition but with one less song.

correction: they wanted $10 more for the deluxe edition. or $17.89 for the added song.

cd edition flips open craftily crabwise and contains two large posters. which doesn't add much to the listening experience, but dr. tra lala is kind of cartoon hott.

^ the double cd version, but yeah

Ilike the drone but Idon't think every album should have 19 mins of drone in the middle

Also I never really got Silent Shout but this album totally fucking rules

'full of fire' is absolutely crushing on speakers, soundstage is immense, extremely disorienting

Loving every ounce of this, but know that I'd never heard so much as a lick of Knife before now.

(Will def remedy soon)

Second listen - thinking this is epic and genius.

I'm getting a similar vibe off this as I do The Seer by Swans. Jarring, arty, large scale. some really catchy parts ensconced in jarring extended instrumental workouts. The apocalyptic political outlook. The use of exotic instruments to tap it all neatly into the 'fourth world'.
I'm really interested in this kind of music right now: long, dark albums with a lot of variety and experimentation - post rock, but only in the sense that rock instruments and arrangements rarely feature at all. Prog done properly? Maybe. Scott Walker, Om, Swans and now the Knife have all released albums recently that could fit into this and I'm loving them right now.

The comic strip that came with it was pretty funny. Kinda self deprecating in a way. I like the way the solution to extreme wealth seemed to be simply 'plant a tree'.

For those, like myself, with only digital downloads, the artwork/comic strip is available here.

The theknifefans tumblr also featuring some useful guides like:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/ee69b525a7371c94b951e5215812c5a8/tumblr_ml9drbhSxU1s1r55zo1_500.png

Damn I want my record. I think tomorrow is the shipping day...

Raging Lungs isn't available on Spotify and you can't buy it as an mp3 by itself from either iTunes or Amazon. Guess I won't be hearing it until maybe Christmas time.

Ha, totally, I was just about to recommend a "Seer" vs. "Habitual" poll.

Okay, I've been listening to this all day and I'm ready to say it's the best thing they've ever done. Better than Silent Shout, or at least very different. The drone track isn't just worth having, it's essential; it wouldn't be the same album without it. I listen to this album as one piece and the drone tracks is really an extended outro/intro for the two sides - it works as apiece to the other songs. Don't really see why people can't get behind it, but then The Captain was always my favourite off SS.

Comparing it to The Captain seems silly in terms of length, structure, vocals, lyrics,...
I realize you didn't do it directly here, but someone did upthread.

Yeah I don't think they're very similar at all really, but as you say people were comparing them upthread. This record feels very very different to Silent Shout. Coming out 6-7 years after, it feels contextually different too. So much has happened in the intervening time, so many records taking direct influence from SS too that this one makes a lot of sense coming from outside all that.

Listening again. Think this is fast becoming album of the year so far for me. I'd really like to talk more about 'Old Dreams Waiting To Be Realised' because it's sort of frustrating me that so many people are getting perturbed by this album for being a little bit avant garde and having a 20 minute 'drone' track on it. It's 2013, this is the Knife, you're all music fans - what's going on?
It's not a useless track, it's not really a drone track either. Plenty going on in it, lots of changes and bits creeping in, some interesting acoustic artefacts too - isn't it supposed to be an amplified recording of a building or a corridor or something? An the Fracking track was made with a bed spring allegedly. It's cool stuff and it works really well as part of the album too.

I totally get it if electroacoustic soundscapes aren't whoever's thing but I'm just surprised by the reaction, almost as though the Knife had decided to include 20 minutes of silence just to fill the album out or provoke people. It's not that big a deal. I'd argue it's the duck's eye of the album, but also just as worthwhile as the other tracks here. Had some pretty cool auditory hallucinations while drifting off with it on, especially when that bizarre whacking noise came in. Earlier on I was listening to it in the kitchen, my housemate came in and started talking to me and after about three minutes he goes 'what's that noise?' In a slight panic. When I explained I was playing a record he told me he'd thought it was a plane until it had just kept getting louder and louder.

ＬＥＴ'Ｓ ＴＡＬＫ ＡＢＯＵＴ ＧＥＮＤＥＲ ＢＡＢＹ
ＬＥＴ'Ｓ ＴＡＬＫ ＡＢＯＵＴ ＧＥＮＤＥＲ ＢＡＢＹ
ＬＥＴ'Ｓ ＴＡＬＫ ＡＢＯＵＴ ＧＥＮＤＥＲ ＢＡＢＹ
ＬＥＴ'Ｓ ＴＡＬＫ ＡＢＯＵＴ ＹＯＵ ＡＮＤ ＭＥ

this album is working out okay for me. there are times when i think, "this is a flying lizards record where all the songs are ten minutes long", but other times, it's like listening in on conversations between electrical outlets in a david lynch movie. leonard is giving me a nerve pinch, i guess is what i'm trying to say.

am I missing it, or has this album failed to start much of a critical or political discussion?

if u want to have a go, feel free

i have nothing to say. it's impenetrable to me.

There was some good commentary about fuel for fire on songmeanings of all places

The lyrics are quite oblique, seems to be a theme with music and social commentary lately. I was always quite surprised by John Maus, whereas he'd rabbit on in interviews about critical theories, his lyrics generally consist of 4 or 5 lines that come off almost cryptic in their plainness.

This is so much fun to listen to that I don't even care about the themes/backstory, though the vocals fit the sounds.

(I'm sure ill get to caring more about the words at some point but this album is still new to me)

Listening to this while playing Dead Space 3 puts you in weird states of mind.

am I missing it, or has this album failed to start much of a critical or political discussion?

the village voice had an article about how it wasn't really about privilege and everyone was fronting

is there a link to that?

why would you give Village Voice the clicks at this point

"Simply put, if you were to listen to Shaking the Habitual without paying attention to any of the conversation around it, I seriously doubt you would spend any time thinking about male privilege. There is nothing politically self-evident about the music."

"Liberals giving me a nerve itch"

"Let’s talk about gender, baby / let’s talk about you and me"

"Western standards / the poverty is profitable"

yep, nothing concerning politics or gender there at all, nope.

that's not to mention way that the album sounds, or the album art and videos that a person listening to the record would come across.

and those are the three most prominent lyrics on the whole album.

oh man, i found the article. when did everyone suddenly become so averse to (so-called) "challenging" music? You'd think from reading that article that the Knife had done nothing but release an album of scratching, clawing noises with added shrieking on top. It's really not that difficult an album.

"rewrite history to suit our needs / open my country, a tooth for an eye"
"border’s lies / the idea of what’s mine / a strange desire / drawing lines with a ruler / bring the fuel to the fire"
"come, normalise / then I got the urge for penetration"

"they work the world as it will be / is now when they dance / just so just now, the euro falls / our short century / Times Square, unauthorised, you and me / are you on your way? / just so just how, I hear the call / our short century"

"ready to lose a privilege / dysfunctional culture / spin me away / preserving a blood line / fear of suffering, fear of loss / sucked in your birthrights"
"ready to lose a privilege / an ongoing habit / a transfer of possessions / ready to lose a privilege / a final sequence / an end to succession"

I quite liked this from songmeanings.net:

I'm basing my interpretation on both the short film released as the official video for this song and the lyrics. I just watched the film, and found it really interesting, if maybe a little predictable. Makes me think of early 'nineties identity politics theory, and queer theory. Having been immersed in this theory back then, the video feels like a throwback to that period of passionate "New Queer Cinema" but still seems fresh and edgy today, which shows how slowly power is wrested from those who wield it. Maybe that's the point? To draw attention to the scary rise of right-wing conservative reactionary politics, maybe even more overt in Sweden than N. America. There's some comment on representation, who gets to write the story? What is opinion, your view, your story, and what is his-story? The guys, the signori ("sirs" or "senior" homophonically, superiors) vs. the queers, the freaks, whose desire is outside the mainstream, challenging gender-bound power. Our fantasy lives, our identities, our stories, who we think we are intersect private and public spaces. The lady in red who can't pee on the street like a man, so squats down in a kind of occupy the gutter action, bringing attention to herself from passerby, by defying taboos against women's bodily needs expressed in public spaces (urination, breast-feeding, menstruation). The elderly woman cross-dressing as a man, and fantasizing about a beautiful woman in pearls. Just a stroll in the city, but politicized because of what is going on in her heart and head, her screaming in frustration, rage. The child who sees the injustice that her parents do not see, the sadness and rage of the working class, the maid's private rebellion of breaking the wine glasses, the delicate objects of the rich. Only the little girl sees the aftermath of her tempest in a teacup. The power switch where the policewoman yelling at the protester turns into a pick-up scene and they walk off smiling, the protester in kinky handcuffs. In a sentence: our desires are political. Maybe it's a good time to be reminded of that so we can connect with the fire within that motivates societal change.

christ that VV article is such a load of old bollocks. i personally didn't read any press releases or reviews or hype about this record before i bought it; in fact i really wasn't all that excited about a new knife album until i heard it, but it's quite obviously political just looking at the sleeve and listening to the lyrics. it's not public enemy, but that's because public enemy are public enemy. there's been a dearth of political music in the last decade (because, well, levellers), but now that it's coming back it's had to do so in a different way from the explicit agit-prop of old.

dog latin otm. the fucking opening lines of the first song on the album:

Under the Sun
Look what we have got
And those who haven’t
Bad luck

We’ve been running ’round
Pushing the shopping cart
January twothousandtwelve
Even in the suburbs of Rome

A brick in a castle
A camp for those on the run
Dance as weapons
Release my

Eyes eyes eyes eyes tell me you
Some other kid is sucking on my thumb
Eyes eyes eyes eyes tell me you
Another kid needs to suck on my thumb

politics isn't an extra-textual narrative foisted on shaking the habitual by overeager fans. political concerns are among the core themes here, expressed again and again. "raging lung" kicks off the second disc on uncompromising terms:

Don't know the hand you're holding
Paying someone to put them to bed again

And that's when it hurts
The difference
This is hot blood
And a difference
What a difference
A little difference would make

Hear my love sigh
I've got a story that money just can't buy
Western standards
Poverty's profitable

...Don't leave me now
Don't fall asleep
We need to rest sometimes
But don't take long

It's something in the system
That still circulates
We'll dig a hole in the backyard
And drain the blood

and sure, it's not fear of a black planet. it's a good deal more fragmentary and indirect. but art need not be obviously polemical to qualify as "political". hell, the ambiguity that seems to have baffled and defeated the village voice's reviewer is political in itself. the lyrics attach significance and power to multiplicity, indeterminacy and difference, to states of confusion and flux. this clearly connects the approach with the queer/feminist/radical thinking the author can find no trace of in the music. idiot.

"stay out here" relates to occupy wall street i think?

yeah, that's an interesting suggestion. i hadn't considered that. it's hard to reduce "stay our here" to a single idea or concern. it seems to relate primarily to the condition of change, the experience of it. when we're pushing our way out habitual systems and patterns, we're necessarily uncomfortable and confused. we're unhoused, on the street, moving through "open ended" space:

lose a wall love me
as i move that street
as i walk blockblock

it's i plea, i suppose. it locates love in solidarity, begs those who find or place themselves outside to stick together & keep moving. perhaps to mount a meaningful opposition to those who "work the world as it will be"?

plus the refereneces to the euro, times square...and also the music, it's a chant, a march, rabble-rousing and aggressive

this album is way more political than it needs to be to be fairly called political in a world whose most prominent Anticapitalist Rock Band is radiohead

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2013/04/we_should_be_le.php?page=2

xxp - makes sense, i'm convinced

plus, duh, the "wall"/"street" connection in the chorus i quoted could hardly be more obvious

Given their audience, it's political, but not particular challenging or confrontational (now give a country dude the same lyric sheet)...

this album is too political

(OT sanpaku, i keep waiting to hear your opinion on >this<.)

this album is too political

― Mordy, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 22:30 (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

my suspicion is that it's working on a level of ironic critique of, like, social justice kiddies. (let's talk about gender, baby!)

the more interesting angle is if they're doing it unironically

irony isn't a binary

nor is gender!! kill me

is everyone drunk here

only ironically

dropping the p-bomb in a chorus was unforgivable

lol i just noticed that the packaging gives sources for everything quoted in the lyrics

jeanette winterson, marit ostberg, fugazi, gayatri chakravorty spivak, salt-n-pepa, agnetha faltskog, and nina bjork & karl marx (?). plus a guiding quote from michel foucault.

http://prospect.org/article/lets-talk-about-gender-baby

i don't get any sense of irony from this album's use of the political. it all seems quite earnest, in a good way.

Given their audience, it's political, but not particular challenging or confrontational (now give a country dude the same lyric sheet)...

uh, sure? would you really prefer that they'd issued a reactionary screed so as to "challenge" and confront their ostensibly liberal audience? personally, i'm glad they didn't go that route.

to be clear: irony is a political statement too

i don't deny that. i just don't hear it here.

This discussion is very interesting to me since I've listened to the album a few times without noticing the lyrics much at all.

I'm not sure I ever really noticed them on Tomorrow in a Year either tbh.

Given their audience, it's political, but not particular challenging or confrontational

nahhh, maybe the hardcore superfans, but the knife are now in a place where they get a lot of casual interest just by dint of their stature - they're an automatic part of any music outlet's news cycle. judging by a lot of the reactions - from the "lol how CRAZY and WACKY and BONKERS they are for being political" to the dismissive "NO WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT PRIVILEGE WE DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT PRIVILEGE IT'S BORING" set, i'd say they're being challenging and confrontational to a depressing extent

Lex OTM. These reactions - like the one in the VV, but also coming from those who chide others for being politicised - are arguably as bad as those who are coming from an opposing political viewpoint. This whole 'Who do you think you are trying to talk about "issues", BORE OFF!' thing that you see on social media is a poisonous indictment of how little politics and pop culture have come to interact with each other up until fairly recently.

"I don't like protest music", "Music and politics shouldn't mix", "I want escapism, I don't want to hear about the news" - these are all things I've heard at one point or another, and in many cases I agree. The difference between The Knife and your average agit-prop dissident is that they don't just make the political personal again, but internal too. By making its message so implicit, Shaking the Habitual addresses its subject matter in such a way that it becomes an essential part of the every listener's core character and psyche. Rather than railing against the TV or a specific political entity, there's a kind of solipsistic anarchy at work here: You DO have the right to an opinion because YOU are in control of your own destiny no matter what historical hegemonic structures have been put into place to make you think otherwise.

This record strikes me as political in the way that early 00s Radiohead were political, they obviously know their stuff but it manifests itself in the music through chopped up fragmentary lyrics and soundbytes and while that's admirable for similar reasons it also fails for similar reasons.

why would you say it fails in this case?

it's not a crass record

I'm fascinated with the "handling of material"-- fascinated? I mean dumbstruck, this is a game-changing album, generative dance music. This is a big album for me

xxxpost I sort of agree, but Radiohead always seemed to harbour a relatively unguided sense of despair towards the modern world. Thom couches his malaise in gnomic imagery that flits between the nonsensical ('woke up sucking on a lemon') and the opaque (cars are bad, people die in them and stuff uhm...) Whenever Thom's lyrics got explicit they seemed ever-so slightly hamfisted or placard-waving, as on Hail to the Thief. I enjoy that period of Radiohead, but I don't once remember something like '2 + 2 = 5' making me think of anything beyond 'There's no hope, Thom's shouting but it's just coming out as garbage. He's waving his hands in the air but he's floundering and being drowned out'. HTTT is nihilistic in its outlook, overwhelmed by the world whereas STH is very much focused in its subject matter as well as offering equality and justice as a means of change. It's why when I listen to this Knife album, I find myself wanting to unlock the lyrical codes as opposed to with Radiohead when I was quite happy for Thom's voice to become another instrument.

Many of us are guilty of thinking politics is a substance you inject like a steroid into music when every song by its nature is political: Rihanna, Brad Paisley, whatever. The transgression I hear in The Knife isn't in the lyrics, from which after several weeks I've managed to pick out a couple of conjunctions, a transitive verb, and some Raymond Williams keywords.

it always ends up drivel?

xpost

eh what now Alfred?

agree with this:

every song by its nature is political

eh what now Alfred?

was quoting Yorke's best-ever lyric.

OIC, never liked that song, but I guess that's a very good summation of how politics get treated when it comes to music. Too much focus on a single issue and you end up sounding like a soapbox punk-poet; conversely if you make everything too oblique the original message gets lost.

Many of us are guilty of thinking politics is a substance you inject like a steroid into music when every song by its nature is political: Rihanna, Brad Paisley, whatever.

Disagree somewhat. Songs aren't legislature, they are by definition non-political. Writing political discourse into your lyrics is no more than an aesthetic pose, like writing sex talk or sing-along.

I dunno – it's difficult for a gay man to view even a boy-girl relationship as non-political. I define "politics" more broadly; it isn't just depiction or analysis or engagement with George W. Bush or Iraq. Politics is the place where gender, race, sexuality, and ethnicity get catalyzed.

No, of course, of course, I've said before that you can infer a band's political beliefs from the way the drums are recorded.

xxpost there's always going to be some degree of it, but i think Alfred's saying that complaining about the Knife's political angle by trying to remove oneself from the equation ('LALALALALA I'M NOT INTERESTED') is futile since any piece of music operates on its own political level. Rihanna is implicitly political. Writing sex talk is in itself political. Let's talk about gender, baby.

both otm

I've said before that you can infer a band's political beliefs from the way the drums are recorded.

Would be interested to hear more about this.

(unless it was a joke)

Definitely easy to listen to this without considering "politics" in terms of sloganeering etc., and from reading the transcribed lyrics here I'd say there's not that much to mine from them besides referentialism. But the sonic aggression, the vocal processing, even the commercial suicide of what could have built upon the success of Silent Shout - it's straightforward to see political meaning in these aspects.

xp DL you're correct, "I'm not interested in your politics" is a futile response, but "I find no beauty in the gesture of this political statement" is a valid one.

How is it straightforward to see political meaning in sonic aggression or vocal processing?

@ Sund4r I'm joking/not joking, I do believe it, but it's an extreme statement of the same impulse that drives people to hear "woozy" and think "wantrepreneur", or "reverberant" and think "naive", or "banjo" and think "douchenozzle"

Similarly I feel that the most politically charged statements on this Knife record are non-verbal. Most obviously the gorgeous drone interlude. It's a lot of "fuck you and your idea of how an album should be", with "album" being interchangeable with what a hook should be, what a voice should sound like, how long a song should go on, how material should function, where the kick should fall, and so on

^ this

I genuinely felt, ah, "my habits was shook" on the very first listen to "Full of fire". Instead of hooks, they have these musical phrases that slide into view, don't repeat themselves, slip in and out of time and audibility, and are in this constantly changing state. i.e. fluid, like gender. Here's lex with "where's the hooks? love the Salt-N-Pepa reference tho" but I felt the Salt-N-Pepa ending was too on the nose, explicitly writing out what was already musically implied.

Now tho I love the ending, a song that long and that serious needs a wink

It's also a reference to an article on gender & language linked above somewhere.

You're right about how this album moves and flows and the economy it uses in its transcendent moments. These seem all the more important precisely because they haven't been milked dry through repetition.

Most obviously the gorgeous drone interlude. It's a lot of "fuck you and your idea of how an album should be", with "album" being interchangeable with what a hook should be, what a voice should sound like, how long a song should go on, how material should function, where the kick should fall, and so on

not disagreeing with you about The Political Is Musical, but i feel this in particular is a failure as political statement merely by dint of how people consume albums in 2013: compare and contrast nicki minaj's own "fuck you and your idea of how an album should be" with roman reloaded pandering to each of her fanbases at the same time

By "people" you mean yourself, though, and I'm not saying your listening is better/worse/more typical/less typical than anybody else's, but lots of people are listening in 2013 to The Knife in one sitting, on a stereo

Most obviously the gorgeous drone interlude. It's a lot of "fuck you and your idea of how an album should be", with "album" being interchangeable with what a hook should be, what a voice should sound like, how long a song should go on, how material should function, where the kick should fall, and so on

Ah, right. I guess I have trouble connecting those sorts of aesthetic challenges with actual political statements. (We have seen avant-garde artists with all sorts of political beliefs, with varying levels of commitments, through history and I don't think that political radicalism has been any sort of norm for musical radicals. Otoh, some of the most politically engaged and radical musicians have been quite conservative, even reactionary, in their aesthetics.) Tbh, I'm also not entirely even sure that the Knife is questioning these things in a really radical way, considering everything that was already done in 60s and 70s rock.

not disagreeing with you about The Political Is Musical, but i feel this in particular is a failure as political statement merely by dint of how people consume albums in 2013: compare and contrast nicki minaj's own "fuck you and your idea of how an album should be" with roman reloaded pandering to each of her fanbases at the same time

― flamenco drop (lex pretend), Wednesday, 24 April 2013 14:36 (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Why is it a failure compared to the Nicki album? PS - I've listen to this front-to-back about 8 times this week.

How is it straightforward to see political meaning in sonic aggression or vocal processing?

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Wednesday, April 24, 2013 6:10 AM (3 minutes ago)

i take seandalai's point about commercial suicide as a political act (aggressive self-ostracism, i.e. the politics of 80's indie), but i don't think the music here is more obviously political than the lyrics. the sounds support the words and vice-versa. they're both rather oblique, tbh.

also, alfred otm that all music is political, but it's valid and sensible, i think, to distinguish as notably "political" that which explicitly engages with certain subjects and ideas. this isn't to suggest that other music is less political, but simply to frame and highlight certain a specific set of concerns.

contenderizer otm

xp Honestly, Sund4r, I am super-duper reserved when it comes to inferring programmatic elements from musical material, ever since I attended the "With only a score of his 6th symphony, I can prove Tchaikovsky was molesting his nephew" lecture. I don't think the tie between politics-and-music is the radical component of this album. I think the fluidity of their material is totally radical, I've heard no precedent for it in electronic music except in modular synth demonstrations

all music is inherently political bc everything that exists is situated in the context of the politics/capitalism that produced it - the question is whether this album resists politics/capitalism successfully or just referents its own political context and i'm not sure it does that. sure, all drumming is inherently political, but not all drumming is transcendent.

I genuinely felt, ah, "my habits was shook" on the very first listen to "Full of fire". Instead of hooks, they have these musical phrases that slide into view, don't repeat themselves, slip in and out of time and audibility, and are in this constantly changing state. i.e. fluid, like gender. Here's lex with "where's the hooks? love the Salt-N-Pepa reference tho" but I felt the Salt-N-Pepa ending was too on the nose, explicitly writing out what was already musically implied.

...Now tho I love the ending, a song that long and that serious needs a wink

― flamboyant goon tie included, Wednesday, April 24, 2013 6:27 AM (40 minutes ago)

great description, goon tie otm. i went through a similar push-pull with "full of fire". one of the principal pleasures afforded by this album lies in the coming to terms, the adjustment period. like dog latin, i've listened to the whole thing several times in the last couple weeks, and i find that my impression changes radically depending on situation and mood. that's true of most music, but few ostensibly pop artists ever produce anything so difficult to slot into functional expectation. in what circumstance are we supposed to listen? how are we supposed to feel? you have to work out for yourself how to use it.

is transcendence a good thing?

xpost

I am not sure I would have called The Knife pop artists even at their most "Heartbeats"-iest

like morally? i guess there's a case to make that anything that resists capitalism is inherently good but tbh it depends on what you're looking for in music.xp

the question is whether this album resists politics/capitalism successfully or just referents its own political context and i'm not sure it does that.

This is an incoherent statement; are you not sure it resists politics/capitalism successfully or are you not sure it just referents its own political context? Also, why are you equating "politics" with "capitalism"?

"pop" in the pazz and jop sense, big tent

And why would it need to resist politics? It can't!

i'm really trying to shift politics into capitalism since 'politics' as a term being used here is meaningless, and i meant that i'm not sure it's successfully resisting capitalism. it's doing lots of great things tho! i love the sound, it reminds me a lot of fever ray which is my fave album by *them* so far and i love her voice and i even like the tonal seriousness and fuck you 19 minute tracks. i just don't see it doing anything interesting on a 'political' level. xxp

The Knife might well be one of the first electronic acts to do something like this, although it seems to be musically and aesthetically aligned with a few other recent albums, particularly Let England Shake, The Seer and maybe Bish Bosch. There's one track that even sounds a bit like footwork on here.

i guess what i mean is that music that is 'political' is just locutionary but illocutionary music actually needs to fight the power

maybe I am totally romanticizing my industrial/industrial dance/acid techno past but I feel like this album would have fit in very well on Nettwerk Records circa 1987/1988, with chunks also comparable to +8 Records circa 1992, so I kind of don't get the "no one has ever done this before" conversation

xp - i don't accept that characterization. art can work towards its political aims in a variety of ways. simply raising an idea is an illocutionary act.

@ DJP specific tracks pls!

xp: I mean, I was never a huge fan of the track but the whole point of Speedy J's "Pullover" is that he spends 5+ minutes shifting the drums every 2 measures, adding things in and dropping them out and changing the rhythm pattern, and I think over the course of the track he repeats maybe 3 patterns? and one time is in direct succession where it's clearly an intentional "I am changing the pattern by not changing the pattern here" decision; it's proto-"Full of Fire" and a lot of Speedy J's 90s tracks are in that realm.

lol I swear I was writing this before FGTI posted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG3Ls1mVyKk

wish I'd Spotify so I could assemble this playlist.

xpost - DJP, Speedy J is a major influence on Chicago footwork producers like DJ Rashad and I'm def hearing elements of that music in STH

but yeah sonically this album spans a broad range of touchpoints for me: early Severed Heads, particularly Come Visit The Big Bigot-era songs like "Sam Loves You", "Harold and Cindy Hospital" and "Strange Brew" and a good chunk of their tape fuckery period around Since The Accident and City Slab Horror, Cabaret Voltaire's 78-82 best of, Bites and VIVISECT VI-era Skinny Puppy, a ton of acid stuff like F.U.S.E. or my personal hobby horse track "Exposure" by Peak Experience, the aforementioned Speedy J, the Doubting Thomas album that was a Skinny Puppy/Severed Heads collaboration

Agree it's not that radical an album, sonically. It's def doing things differently, but ten years after Kid A I don't really see why people are finding it quite such a culture shock. That said, what it does, it does extremely well and in the way it's sequenced, in the lyrical choices and the way it blends electronic and acoustic sounds, it does feel like something very original.

I mean, you wanna talk about trance-inducing shit like "Old Dreams Waiting To Be Realized", let's talk about Severed Heads' "Gashing the Old Mae West":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fch4YoMz_t8

i'm late to the discussion but:

1) if having really long songs and drones and weirdly constructed, non-repetitive music is a sign of political radicalism, then yes is the leon trotsky of rock

2) would anyone really be talking about 'politics' w/r/t this album if there weren't a few signifiers thrown in the lyrical mix that prompt us to do so?

3) this album is fucking incredible

also yeah DJP put together a playlist yo

Cool track DJP! I def hear a lot of sonic similarities. I'm saying "radical" bc of the way the material is handled, though, i.e. generatively or pseudo-generatively, see also "Confield" and Paul Dolden and any number of electroacoustic composers or Max/MSP nerds. The difference is that this album ~sounds great~ in a way that suggests it was made painstakingly with real hardware synths, or was just made really well with softsynths

amateurist I agree with 1 and 2 and also 3

xxp yeah, do it, D! i know next to nothing about the music you've mentioned (except obvious stuff like early skinny puppy and cab voltaire).

just gonna post songs from my past that fall into the various sonic arenas that I feel this album plays in; not to say all of these songs are constructed in the same way or are "better", but rather that there's a known vocabulary here that this album is operating within that I fucking love

Skinny Puppy - "Love" from the album Bites (which btw if you don't have that album FUCKING GET IT IT IS AMAZING FRONT TO BACK)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh2OOvpiDhs

from that same album, "Church"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA9Khv4NE1k

was gonna post "Assimilate" but yeah everyone knows that already; I just don't think they would consciously link it to the triplet shuffle of "A Tooth for an Eye" the way I did

Severed Heads - "Exploring the Secrets of Deaf Mutes" from Since the Accident

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__gj9XQqUOo

also by Severed Heads, "Goodbye Tonsils" from City Slab Horror (with tracks from Blubberknife)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH6X3txWyTs

out of the industrial tape loop realm and more into the 90s acid scene, I keep going on and on and on about this track but it's fucking astonishing esp. on good bass-heavy speakers where you can feel the oscillations

"Exposure" - Peak Experience

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J6O55zGWug

then Tresor Records comes into town:

"Ploy" - Maurizio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXPMp_-WdcU

"Der Klang Der Familie" - 3Phase feat. Dr. Motte (lol I posted this on another thread yesterday

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTHIHpi5IJI

"Drugs Work" - System 01

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqCUQIE7zo8

btw I just ordered a fucking bomb-ass comp off of Amazon yesterday that is 3 discs of Tresor awesomeness and when it arrives I likely will disappear from ILX for a week

here's a Youtube playlist of the entire Doubting Thomas album, which was a Skinny Puppy/Severed Heads collaboration from 1991

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_afns-FBeK8&list=PL77B0179AC5620A7A

I'm getting tied up in a big nostalgia vortex here; the point behind is less "this is exactly what STI is doing" because obviously that's wrong, but rather "here are the foundations for this album and it's super cool where they've gone with it"

the clearest antecedent to this is the early Severed Heads stuff, which can be heard here:

http://severedheads.bandcamp.com/

Tom Ellard's transformation from "industrial tape loop nightmare man" into "techno New Order for weirdos" is one of my favorite things in all of music

OTOH, a big middle chunk of STH is 4th world pastiche ala:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZp3UaYtT3U

DJP, I'm psyched for your nostalgia trip. I love Tresor and hard 90s tehcno in general. Perhaps we need a hard techno thread in general. I can't recall much discussion of this stuff on ILM previously.

Think I started some several years ago now. I'd like a bit of that. Haven't listened to hard tech for ages

not feeling this album, i wanted more songs (which i'm sure has been discussed). i bought it blind without listening to a second of it beforehand. glad i only got the single disc of this album. yeah it's organic and has amazing sound. two listens in so maybe it gets better but i would rather hear Fever Ray at this point.

no 19-minute drone track, no credibility

i least i bought it, don't think too many can say that.

at least...

i only regret not springing the extra $12 for the 3lp. so much pink.

i actually should have bought the 3LP version. the problem is i have no modern LP's as all my albums are old stuff. plus my record play and records for that matter are in my garage.

play player

The 3lp is super beautiful. The so much pink has a nice greeness to it

Amateurist otm. I wouldn't have a problem with political slants to music if they could be expressed clearly, but generally they can't. It becomes a bit like people decoding scripture, finding nuggets that specifically appeal.

I mean, I suppose people do this with the words of politicians or political theorists, to an extent, but they're not as open to interpretation, and these people are subjected to scrutiny.

The problem with explicit politics in music is that if you start singing "Fuck John Major and the Criminal Justice Bill", you're already giving your songs up to redundancy in a couple of years time. In the case of Crass or Public Enemy it can have the positive effect of historical resonance but it's risky. On the whole a more universal approach to music and politics tends to work better.

I am really hoping Modeselektor does a remix of something off this.

one last touchpoint: Savage Aural Hotbed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvhKOpbkpY8

wish I could find a good clip of "Big Arms"

Not sonic touchstones, obviously, but Snivilisation was doing philosophy & politics & techno 19 years ago.

Sort of.

This is all very well and good, but all these examples are from before the agit-prop watershed of the mid-'90s. Even Autechre released the Anti-EP in 1994 (another example of instrumental electronic music as political statement). I really can't think of many good examples from the last fifteen years that does what STH is doing - especially not electronic music.

I'm mistrustful of theory in general but it doesn't make for great lyrics. Show don't tell.

so one minute the Knife aren't explicit enough, next they're too explicit... no pleasing some people.

dog latin, you are having an entirely different conversation from me

me: here is a bunch of music I listened to in the 80s and 90s that remind me of/prepared me for the textures and structures on Shaking the Habitual
you: NO ONE HAS BEEN POLITICAL FOR FIFTEEN YEARS
me: uh

The problem with explicit politics in music is that if you start singing "Fuck John Major and the Criminal Justice Bill", you're already giving your songs up to redundancy in a couple of years time.

for the record i don't really agree w/ what's being said about "political" lyrics. surely you can write well about politics as much as you can write well about love or friendship or anything else. unfortunately most pop musicians tend to take one of the following options: (1) a bunch of platitudes /banalities that pass as "politics" but don't mean a damn thing (call this the "u2" option, or perhaps the "will.i.am" option); (2) obscurantism; (3) sloganeering (the "rage against the machine" option, or maybe the "le tigre" option). this knife album seems mostly to indulge (2) with occasional flashes of (3).

none of these approaches seems ideally suited to the task of using poetic language to crystallize or reveal the layers of a "political" situation broadly construed. note that when the chips are down option (1) can do more good in the world, viz. "we are the world." option (3) only functions in a narrow context; i.e. preaching to the converted. i don't think there's really much glory in option (2).

of course many many people, in all kinds of genres, have transcended these two options. so politics in pop music is hardly doomed. i don't really pay enough attention to what's going on right now but reaching back into the distant past, elvis costello's "shipbuilding" is kind of an unassailable example of a sharp political lyric that's more than just sloganeering.

....on a totally separate note, the "ambient" tracks here, unlike the vast majority of "ambient" or "drone" tracks on records by pop-rock bands, are actually really good and thought-through. IMO.

terre thaemlitz / dj sprinkles / ultrared to thread

xxpost No DJP - I'm not disagreeing with you, sorry I got a bit confused - just realised you're posting examples of stuff that is musically similar to STH but Nick threw me off by mentioning Snivilisation as an example of dance + politics.

This aside, I think that while 'Snivilisation' is a good examples of something that might have informed or preceded STH, such examples can be found in abundance throughout the '80s and '90s, tailing off at a certain point circa 1995. Much of late-80s and early-90s dance/industrial/rave culture was politically informed or counter-culturally influenced in some way. Going out to a rave in a warehouse or to a field was seen as a form of activism or rule-breaking at least, while the music itself was demonised by the mainstream media, frowned upon by the establishment for its repetitiveness and the fact it 'made' teenagers take drugs. There are dozens of examples, from 'Dance Before The Police Come' to The Orb's more subtle use of samples on tracks like 'Towers Of Dub' ('Is there a Haile Selassie there? No.') that used dissent or cultural touchstones to make certain points. The introduction of the Criminal Justice Act in the UK is a possible reason for dance music shedding a lot of its political slant.

So we blame Prodigy, Chemical Brothers, Fatboy Slim, for making dance music entirely about hedonism and not about activism?

wow, really struck by the extent to which "exploring the secrets of deaf mutes" anticipates the basic sound not only of this album, but of the knife in general. also seems to point towards boards of canada's geogaddi (since that's been discussed recently). and i can certainly connect the speedy j track to "full of fire".

thing is, echoing what i said earlier, it's fairly easy for me to see the skinny puppy, severed heads and speedy j tracks existing in some kind of functional context where they more-or-less square with user needs. the former belong to industrial-goth nighclub spaces (or dorm rooms) in which nocturnal menace, urban alienation and harsh beats help build an appropriately morbid atmosphere. the latter is straight dance music (same goes for peak experience, tresor). these tracks & sounds have a comprehensible place & purpose. it's harder to slot shaking the habitual into an existing "use profile" or w/e.

Again, my point is maybe .5% "Ho hum it's all been done before" and 99.5% "look at all of these disparate sources they've pulled together in making this awesome album"

I am not at all try to diminish or pooh-pooh The Knife'd creativity; I'm trying to recreate the context from which I'm approaching this album and share it with others, hopefully giving another avenue/dimension for people to explore plus perhaps revive some interest for old faves of mine.

xxpost to Sick Mouthy - IMO it's not so much about the acts, more to do with a number of factors making dance culture more acceptable. By making raves illegal, dance music's milieu moved from suburban fields and inner-city warehouses into commercially-run clubbing environments. Going clubbing was hedonistic, but not necessarily rebellious. It's also to do with dance music becoming accepted by the indie and mainstream media as an auteur art-form with 'proper' albums rather than a throwaway fad. Dance music simply became assimilated by society, permeating the pop charts, being used in TV adverts etc. It just wasn't this edgy new youth-corrupting sound any more. Also - by the time Britpop and Girl Power rolled round, there was a general mistrust of agit-prop in cultural media. Soapboxing was seen as the pursuit of crustie swamp-dwelling dullards with stuff like PWEI and Levellers being branded deeply unfashionable. Think this all had a big knock-on effect for politics in electronic music.

looking forward to checking all these tracks out btw DJP - maybe a Spotify playlist / own thread could be in order?

so the live show is proving divisive...

Saw a clip on pitchfork before the record company took it down. Seemed a bit more like a dance recital than a traditional concert.

so spotify has the whole record now

so the live show is proving divisive...

― Number None, Tuesday, April 30, 2013 11:20 PM (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's certainly been interesting to read the comments on it over the last few days... loads of people complaining about being "ripped off", but also just as many throwing phrases around such as "artistic statement". If The Knife deliberately set out to confound, then it's certainly worked!

spoilers ahead

great things about the live show

- they start with 'A Cherry On Top' and 'Raging Lung', both sound great and it seems at this point a full ensemble is on stage performing the songs
- the remixed version of Got 2 Let U with a new skippy House tempo (makes up for the otherwise baffling inclusion of this song in the set)
- a few other amazing sonic bits here and there as to be expected including the music just after the show finale threatening to turn into a Knife rework of Pon De Floor
- version of 'Silent Shout' very good but undermined slightly by...

bad things about the live show

- ...K & O seemingly only present on stage for around half the set at best, leaving much of it to the dance troupe, backing tracks and lip-syncing and all
- LOTS of very obvious popular songs you would expect them to play from the back catalogue not in the set list
- pretty much everything else

looking forward to reading what the London gig-goers make of the show tonight. can't ever recall seeing such a high level of complaints from fans on a band's own Facebook pages etc. genuine heartbroken outrage and ranting left right and centre.

Does exactly what it says on the tin.

So what's the deal with these shows? They look pretty fun from the shaky YouTube clips I've seen

I am so bummed I didn't get to see them last night in Amsterdam, show was sold out in seconds.

It's been an extremely divisive gig, reading the reviews and twitter etc. Perhaps the most divisive one in a decade. I can't remember fans of a group being so divided into those who are repulsed and those who are full of admiration.

Going off twitter, London's show tonight has the same outcome.

A 20 minute aerobics warm-up, *nothing* sung live, the band leaving the stage for a whole song, theatre.. It must have been really something.

It all sounds like this century's Rite of Spring!

If you don't go in with the expectations of watching a band play live, then it's OK. Having read the comments about the tour so far, I had pretty low expectations.

Couldn't see much of the dancing on stage, but I can sort of see their point. A lot of this album couldn't have been performed live anyway, so I sort of see the band's point in not even pretending to play and just dance on stage instead. Which would have been great if everyone in the audience could actually see what's going on onstage (the Roundhouse is awful for this).

It would have been awesome in a venue where the stage isn't the focal point of the room. Imagine if it was some club where there are dancers everywhere and the audience are just there to dance and have fun. But in a normal venue where everyone expects to look at the front, it just didn't quite work.

I say fair play to em, but then I didn't get tickets on time

I mean, what would you rather see: a bunch of people losing it on stage with a cool light show and wicked music or two people standing stock still behind keyboards duly going through half-rendered versions of the album tracks? Shaking the Habitual, to me, is Dada-esque in its use of artFORM as anarchy - presenting itself in ways that are structurally different from how we have come to expect and accept. The whole thing is about challenging tropes. Kind of reminds me of an idea for a gig I wanted to do where the audience is handed a church-service style pamphlet with the proceedings of the night laid out; the set list, lyrics, whether there would be a break for audience banter, whether there would be an encore etc.... People don't expect to be given the running order when they go to concerts, but they do when they go to church which is strange because to an alien the two activities are extremely similar.

I totally agree (and also was too late for tickets). In form it is definitely dada-esque, and I noticed I have missed artists that do this, confuse and harshly break through conventions.

I have noticed they have made a conscious decision to separate the 'message' of the album - which is a strong one, even if I haven't fully figured it out yet - from the shows. They use the interviews for the political side of their music, the gender-issues, but they use their shows to disrupt. Both are equally anarchist and militant, but I think it is a very clever strategy.

Think I just missed music challenging me so much. I find the new album breathtaking, annoying, painstaking and beatiful, sometimes all at the same time. I embrace the confusion.

It would have be awesome if their gig was more like that Neon Neon Praxis Makes Perfect gig or immersive theatre thing. For Full of Fire the band and dancers stood still on stage in hooded tops. If you had wandered across them during the song, it would have been terrifying. But it just didn't quite work in a venue like the Roundhouse.

terrific show. terrific concept and execution (although jill's caveat about sightlines is otm). i liked the displacement of focus away from she & he, the deliberate disruption of the cult-of-personality that gigs sometimes represent. i don't know why people are so invested in seeing The Band perform The Hits, especially with music that isn't going to be created live in front of you regardless of whether karin and olof are on stage or not. compared to the last knife show i saw, circa silent shout, where they did just that, this was so much more unpredictable and dynamic.

also i do wonder, who exactly did the whingers think they were going to see? this was not exactly out of character. anyone who was "heartbroken" about that gig needs to have a word with themselves.

"lip-syncing" doesn't even half cover it, either. at points you had six dancers, all with mics, all lip-syncing, one of whom may or may not have been karin. the one time the spotlight was on a single figure it was a woman seated at a piano getting her tori amos on. you assumed it was karin until you realised the song had no piano in it

Are you writing a review for the Graun about it Lex?

nah if i was i'd be doing it now, not on the internet!

however i will be talking to them tomorrow about it.

this new knife codswallop sounds like pretentious, overrated rubbish IMHO

regards,
nilmar

have you listened to it?

many people consider listening to a record an important part of evaluating it

xxp Lex, yeah makes sense.

Enjoy the interview! Dutch online mag got a great interview out of them. It went from gender politics to music, from expectations of the crowd to Olof being a bigger feminist than Karin, from penetration being unnecesary and overrated to inserting a bludgeon with a condom around it!

the one time the spotlight was on a single figure it was a woman seated at a piano getting her tori amos on. you assumed it was karin until you realised the song had no piano in it

― flamenco drop (lex pretend), Wednesday, May 8, 2013 8:01 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

thats awesome

looking forward to reading what the London gig-goers make of the show tonight. can't ever recall seeing such a high level of complaints from fans on a band's own Facebook pages etc. genuine heartbroken outrage and ranting left right and centre.

i'm reading these now and my gawwwwwd, people's sense of entitlement to this rigid idea of what they expect a gig to be. is this a recent development? when i started going to gigs, NO WAY did i expect to hear certain songs, and i never got the impression anyone else did. you are paying to hear LIVE ART which is (or should be) inherently unpredictable. (related: i think the entire concept of don't look back concerts is contemptible.)

and really i say "what kind of band did you think the knife were" but if BRITNEY FUCKING SPEARS decided to come out and on a whim perform a setlist entirely composed of her deep cuts that is HER PREROGATIVE. (and i'd fucking love it, she has enough quality deep cuts.) you purchase a ticket, not a right to dictate the setlist.

i might now spend the next hour thinking about my dream #deepbritneyalbumcuts setlist

Um, I think millions would disagree, Lex.

about what? britney? or entitlement to The Hits? they'd be completely deluded and wrong on both counts.

Which is to say, that going to see "live art" as you put it, is fine and dandy (and I have done this many times), and you should be prepared for what's going to happen (or not happen, as far as rote expectations go), but a ticket to a gig is a contract between a performer and the audience, and the audience will have certain expectations of what that contract means; if they're not met for whatever reason, then yeah, you're entitled to feel pissed off. You've been mis-sold a service / experience. I've seen Swans and The Necks recently, and if they're sets had been predictable I'd have been disappointed; if MBV's had been unpredictable - no Soon, no Only Shallow, no YMMR - I'd have felt cheated, because the experience of those songs were an integral part of what I was buying into. In The Knife's case I think what they're doing now sounds awesome, and I'd love to have seen it and I doubt I'd complain, but there's clearly a portion of their audience who haven't bought in to what they're doing right now, for whatever reason; it may be confused lines of communication, or it may be that they're boring, reactive dicks. But if you're going to present a version of live music, as an ostensibly pop performer, which veers radically away from (indeed, shakes) the usual habits of performativity, then your audience needs to know that, and be expecting it.

reminds me slightly of the lauryn hill tour last year when she did do the hits, but with completely different arrangements such that many of them were nigh-on unrecognisable. moan moan moan, whinge whinge whinge, it's like all they wanted was a bit of a nostalgic singalong

a ticket to a gig is a contract between a performer and the audience, and the audience will have certain expectations of what that contract means

this should extend to standards of professionalism, sure - a dj who's too pissed to mix properly or a singer who can't remember their words. (cat power fans may disagree.) but not to the actual detail of what the show consists of. when you buy a ticket to an artistic event, whether that's (pop) music or theatre or film, you're taking a risk as to whether it's to your taste, that's inherent. that's especially the case when the performer presents themselves as avant-garde, which the knife do pretty explicitly (even heavy-handedly).

a ticket to a gig is a contract between a performer and the audience, and the audience will have certain expectations of what that contract means; if they're not met for whatever reason, then yeah, you're entitled to feel pissed off

bollocks to this imo. the only thing you should judge the gig on is whether or not the actual content and presentation of it moved you. you might feel disappointed by certain songs being excluded, but that has only a tangential relationship with the performance itself. i'm sure lots of people would disagree, i say shame on these judas-shouting motherfuckers.

PREACH

It might only have a tangential relationship with the performance, but it wont be tangential at all to your experience of the performance, if you're desperate for a specific song or songs that you expect to hear and then don't.

hmm if you're desperate enough to hear a particular song that your enjoyment of a show hinges on it, i wouldn't say the risk/reward ratio of buying a ticket is particularly great, and you should probably just...play that song at home

Because that's analogous to the euphoria of experiencing it at great volume in a crowd of like-minded people.

to an extent whether they play The Hits or not is a bit of a red herring as it's only a small part of why the knife's show was divisive - it was the nature of the presentation more than the material they chose. but there's still this sense of entitlement and unwillingness to be surprised in people's complaints.

Because that's analogous to the euphoria of experiencing it at great volume in a crowd of like-minded people.

obviously it's not, but this is not what your ticket is buying.

I don't see how it's an entitlement to expect that if I attend a show, the artists will perform their hits or at the very least some songs that their fanbase are familiar with in a form that is recognizable to those fans. Theoretically, the reason I'm there is because you've sold me on the quality of those songs as they appear on your album or whatever and I want to see them in a live setting and the artist knows that's why I'm there. That's how they've drawn me in. This expectation can vary depending on the artists work and the feasibility of performing those songs live in a way that's engaging of course, but there's at least some expectation of what you'll play and how it will be played. Obviously payment for admission doesn't allow attendees to dictate the entire setlist, but c'mon, no one is buying a ticket to the Femme Fatale Tour to watch Britney perform to a setlist composed of ragtime interpretations of Baby One More Time album deepcuts and some would be rightly pissed if that's what they got.

no one is buying a ticket to the Femme Fatale Tour to watch Britney perform to a setlist composed of ragtime interpretations of Baby One More Time album deepcuts

yeah but this would be so awesome

why do you get so few of these complaints w/r/t other art forms? the other week i went to an avant-garde theatrical adaptation of the trial that involved walking by myself through east london, unexpected one-to-one encounters with actors etc - i had no idea what i was letting myself in for, certainly not what i got. (i bought the ticket - actually bought, unlike my knife ticket - on a friend's recommendation, not prior knowledge of the company.) it wasn't a traditional theatre experience by any means, it could well have fallen flat, would i have been within my rights to complain? i don't think so, as i said buying that ticket to an artistic experience was a risk that i would be left cold.

People don't think of pop as art, Lex.

Not saying that's right or wrong.

I'm sympathetic to the "I got a babysitter for THIS?" response to an unpredictable show. Sometimes you're forewarned: I don't go to see Wire because I mainly want to hear songs from the first three albums and I know that's not their deal these days. This was more of a shock but there was enormous pleasure in being made to question your assumptions and let go of them in order to enjoy what was, in its own right, an utterly joyous show. If this weren't billed as a Knife show and was something you stumbled upon late one night in one of Glastonbury's weirder tents then it would be one of the best things you'd see all year. I can understand being annoyed by what it wasn't - The Knife visibly performing their songs — but what it was was exceptional.

Strikes me that the Knife audience should have known exactly what they would be getting, if they had even nodding acquaintance with Shaking The Habitual, i.e. played it once, filed it away and dug out Deep Cuts again.

People don't think of pop as art, Lex.

― they all are afflicted with a sickness of existence (Scik Mouthy), Thursday, May 9, 2013 9:40 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Not saying that's right or wrong.

― they all are afflicted with a sickness of existence (Scik Mouthy), Thursday, May 9, 2013 9:40 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

well, i'm saying that's wrong, and fuck 'em

why do you get so few of these complaints w/r/t other art forms? the other week i went to an avant-garde theatrical adaptation of the trial that involved walking by myself through east london, unexpected one-to-one encounters with actors etc

it is a bit different tho, people have heard the album before seeing a gig and that's their day to day connection with the band, their connection with their music. it's highly possible that people are into music but not particularly into performance or performance art. more's the pity i guess.

or they just didn't think it was good performance art.

The funny thing is that the music was may more fun and accessible than the versions on Shaking the Habitual. It was the authenticity/authorship question that got people riled up. I wonder if they'd have been happier with solemn drones as long as Olof was visibly prodding a laptop.

Lex is OTM in this thread.

I'm just sad I didn't get to go :-( Big respect to the Knife for not going down the well-trod path of so many electronic artists who stand on stage twiddling with a few knobs and acting like they're recreating the music live, as would a rock band. Live electronica is such a charade - most of the music is pre-programmed anyway, so why pretend? Play a CD and get a bunch of crazy dancers to jump around, turn it into a party - much more fun and honest. Standing behind a laptop on stage while playing music that quite clearly took hours of slow, meticulous sampling and experimentation just doesn't make sense - it's mapping rock band values onto electronic music, and yet it's been the main way to present live dance acts for years. 90% of the time I'd like to see, for example, an electronic band miming with toy instruments to a backing track than standing stock still behind a bunch of meaningless equipment.

"Music fans who don't get the same transgressive art interpretations of live music as I do are idiots" isn't a very helpful approach, though, is it? I think, by and large, that people are so used to shitty, formulaic iterations of live music that they're not comfortable with anything which steps outside this. Which is sad, obviously, but blaming them for not getting it is harsh and unproductive.

funny thing is with out-and-out dance acts no one complains either - i saw major lazer at the same venue a few days before and apart from dropping a few snippets of well-known anthems into the mix none of the music was being "created" "live" - instead there were dancers, lights, glitter guns, diplo and co embracing superstar dj poses etc - and the crowd were SO into it

sometimes people just need to hear harshness nick. i'm less interested in persuading them to change their minds as in telling them about themselves

I can mainly remember feeling disdain for dance acts who didn't change the records from the recorded ones, when I liked dance music which had a live offering.

"Music fans who don't get the same transgressive art interpretations of live music as I do are idiots" isn't a very helpful approach, though, is it?

They're idiots if they go and see THE KNIFE and then complain about it.

Well, quite.

I definitely prefer the new Major Lazer album to the new Knife album but maybe I'm just superficial that way.

Otherwise it comes down to what Chris Barber used to say; regardless of what music you're into, most people are basically "Max Bygraves fans," i.e. happy to stick with what they already know.

I mean if I went to see the London Symphony Orchestra or I dunno Laura Marling or something and nothing was being played live onstage and it was being obsfuscated with a load of dancers I'd be entitled to be annoyed but really at this point you should be prepared for a Knife gig to be pretty obtuse.

maybe some of them just thought it was shit.

Entirely possible.

it's mapping rock band values onto electronic music

It's the values of ALL non-electronic music, pretty much. I sometimes wonder if certain acts could be more creative with the way they recreate the sound but I doubt most of them are just whacking on a backing tape of the album. Actually it's modern laptop-based indie acts who tend to be the worst for this.

Laura Marling being obfuscated by a load of dancers would improve her music immeasurably.

I definitely prefer the new Major Lazer album to the new Knife album but maybe I'm just superficial that way.

it has its moments for sure but dude from vampire weekend doing jamaican patois is just ;_; ;_; ;_; ;_;

I think also, at this stage, anyone attending a Knife show should have some sort of idea of what they are (or aren't) letting themselves in for. The fact so many people are getting upset about this underlines precisely the Knife's conceptual approach to Shaking The Habitual - redefining definitions, challenging expectations; often to the point that it intimidates those with a more conservative view of how things 'should' be. The whole point of the Knife's steez seems to be: 'how can the world be changed for the better if so many of us feel threatened by anything outside of these set structures and confines. It's not so much criticising them in a 'wake up sheeple' way, so much as leading by example - you CAN have a 20min drone piece on your album, you CAN change the way a live show is presented, and by extension you CAN make a difference to gender perception and political mores if only you accept ideas from outside of these confines.

Xxposts

Doglatin you're talking about all this stuff like it's a get-out-of-jail free card, "we are redefining definitions and challenging expectations and intimidating those with a conservative view of how things should be" doesn't magically insulate you from people going, "actually I don't have a conservative view, I just don't think what you're doing is successful or worthwhile".

think the knife were big enough that loads of people who don't give a shit about anything except the next album prob bought their records. you can't expect people to buy into everything a band does but it is pretty dumb and ignorant, i agree, to rail against them for wanting to do whatever they want to do on stage.

live shows aren't really that related to recorded music - i'm often alienated by people's wild enthusiasm for festivals etc and most people i know who love music don't share this.

it's fair to criticise it obv - eg with such an emphasis on choreography, why was the dancing so community-project amateur rather than tightly rehearsed - but you have to criticise it on its own terms rather than stubbornly insisting a live show must be a pro forma exercise rigidly adhered to

i'm often alienated by people's wild enthusiasm for festivals etc

same