"Please Understand. We don't want no trouble, we just want the right to be different. That's all." PULP - D.I.F.F.E.R.E.N.T.C.L.A.S.S poll

IMPOSSIBLE POLL

nope hasn't been done yet.

it has been awhile since i have listened to this, it's summer time and seemed like a good time to throw it on. right now i want to vote for something like "Pencil Skirt," "Something Changed" or "Underwear." will listen first before voting.

I just meant that it'll be near impossible for me to vote since several of my favorite songs are on this album.

IMPOSSIBLE POLL

It's weird though - I'm finding it really hard to find one I even unambiguously like! Like, it's not a matter of it sounding 'dated' or whatever, because I kind of felt like this at the time too? Even though it was for years one of my favourite albums in the world? I suppose the answer is Common People!

(Something else of no interest to anyone else - watching the videos to songs from this it's blazingly clear what an amazing unique compelling frontman Jarvis was, but at the time I was totally oblivious to it! It was all indie-rock chord progressions - it could have been the Bluetones!)

saturation destroyed this record for me - it's almost impossible for me to hear it with anything approaching fresh ears

if i try to be objective 'sorted for e's and wizz' is probably what i would go for.

As much as I like nearly the whole thing, I'd be kidding myself if I didn't vote for Common People. So there is it. Also, GP otm regarding Jarvis.

gut was to with F.E.E. ETC.

Heart goes with Common People, head goes with Underwear, so I guess I'm voting for Pencil Skirt?

Awesome album that had more impact on me than I realized at the time.

These are all kind of blending together into a Roxy Music indie extravaganza on 15-years-later listen except "Common People" so "Common People" it is.

impossible impossible impossible

disco 2000 vs. common people vs. sorted vs. everything everything

So many good songs on this, and I slept on it at the time (Pulp seemed a bit too adult and sleazy for me as a teenager), so surprisingly it was William Shatner's 2004 version of Common People that made me come back and listen to it.

So many great moments, and so many stories told on here. The one that sticks in my mind is Sorted For E's and Whizz though - it's an encapsulation, a Pepys' journal of the rave/festival era '88-'94 that is as much a celebration as a knowing farewell to that time. And it's fitting that Pulp blew up when they took over the stage at Glasto and sang this song.

'something changed' bcz i am a sad romantic (will swygart wrote something abt this song on stylus, years ago, that made it a fixed point in my heart)

Question for brits in their twenties - to what degree were you aware of the class aspects of this album when you got into it? Like, it's practically a cpncept album right down to the title - but somehow (well - not somehow - I was 13) it went completely over my head that this was an album totally and explicitly about animosity towards, well, me actually!

coming at this in retrospect I've never understood why this is thought of as better than Pulp's other 90's records

the answer is 'either I Spy or F.E.E. etc'

Greg, yeah I was kind of funny about Pulp at the time (I think I was 14) - the topics they were discussing; it was like watching a grown-up comedy and not quite understanding the jokes and somehow being a bit, well, worried about some of the references as I wasn't entirely sure what they were referring to. I just found the subject matter a bit daunting and dark - I had no knowledge of sex or drugs or anything at the time. If anything, it was the class aspect that I did understand, but again not fully. Compared to Oasis's workmanlike abstractness and Blur's singalong character sketches, these were so much more literary and opaque. So the Disco 2000 single was good enough for me I think.

I went with "Common People"; a friend put a live version from some big festival on a mix tape before I'd heard the album (indeed, before I'd heard of the band) & I was shocked at how the crowd seemed huge & yet could sing along with the song, like, this was a hit & you've never even heard of the band! It's like when you read a story about a city in China that you're never heard of & it turns out to have more people than Houston. I still love that live version more than the album version, the exuberance making it an even bigger "fuck you" than it already is.

"Disco 2000" is second for me, then "Feeling" & ""Mis-Shapes" & I probably should listen to this album again! It's been years.

Haven't heard the whole album, but my favourite single is Es and Wizz.

I thought "Disco 2000" was better than "Common People" back then, and I still do. "I Spy" is the masterpiece that never seems to get enough attention though.

I suspect there will be a few zeros though (hello Bar Italia)

you see this album doesn't have, for me, particularly interesting tunes or structures, EXCEPT those songs I named - their other albums are much wilder and more me-tastic

"Bar Italia" is great! "Live Bed Show" (good concept, not so good execution) and "Monday Morning" are the two worst. "Feeling Called Love" is no big deal either, trying to make their token dnb-influenced track (which seemed to be in vogue at the time) wasn't the smartest decision.

"and more me-tastic"

stop.

anyway, "common people," who cares if it's obvious etc.

yeah the answer is 'I Spy', by quite a long way

apologies strongo it's not like I'm writing for a publication here now is it

haha i just mean c'mon man who goes to pulp for "wild tunes" or "interesting structures"

I hate that not only some people but lots of them like This Is Hardcore better than Different Class

fuckin' hate This Is Hardcore

"god, 'disco 2000' is pretty good, but a wicked mathcore/be-bop breakdown in the middle would make it tops."

*hides*

I've always said TIH would be an absolutely stone-killer 7-track album

haha JH the thing is that say His'N'Hers is FULL of fun, inventive, interestingly-textured songs where this isn't IMO

I'd go as far as to say that His'N'Hers is their real masterpiece

a friend put a live version from some big festival on a mix tape before I'd heard the album

Probably the Glastonbury 1995 version, which surfaced as a B-side. It's pretty goddamn spectacular. I had first heard them do that when they were opening for Blur in 1994 -- hadn't been released yet, nobody knew what it was and by the end of the song the whole place was in a cheering uproar.

Have to agree with the impossible/need fresh ears sentiment. Still I was thinking about how they started their LA date for this with "I Spy" so maybe that.

coming at this in retrospect I've never understood why this is thought of as better than Pulp's other 90's records

― acoleuthic, Thursday, September 2, 2010 1:04 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

don't think ne 1 thinks this?

THE 1990s POLL RESULTS - THE ALBUMS

Question for brits in their twenties - to what degree were you aware of the class aspects of this album when you got into it? Like, it's practically a cpncept album right down to the title - but somehow (well - not somehow - I was 13) it went completely over my head that this was an album totally and explicitly about animosity towards, well, me actually!

― Gravel Puzzleworth, Thursday, September 2, 2010 1:00 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

i dunno man, the lyrics to 'common people' were sort of... right there? middle-class kids loved 'em though. but -- durrrr -- it tends to be suburban middle-class kids who hate suburban 9-to-5 lyfe the most.

xpost

the best pulp album is 'intro' and i guess that isn't an album-album.

'Mis-Shapes' isn't really about class though. Well, unless you want to give it a Marxist anti-lumpenproletariat reading.

I voted for I Spy just ahead of F.E.E.L.I.N.G but this album is a total 10/10 classic for me and so is His n' Hers. I can't think of a band more on fire than Pulp were from about 92-95. The singles they did before His n' Hers were great but some of the B-sides from around then were even better. The Sisters EP and the track Seconds in particular is just incredible. Those deluxe reissues from a few years ago are worth getting for those B-sides and some of those demo's are really good. Pulp Intro is also a really good collection of singles too.

This is Hardcore is one those albums when I think of putting it on I picture myself only enjoying a few songs but actually in the end I love it all. The title track is my favourite song they ever did. That and We Love life aren't quite in the same league as the previous two but they are both really great albums.

Some days I really think I can't think of a band I love more than Pulp.

exactly! it was that kind of thing that kept me from being that keen on them. the kind revelling-in-ur-altness indie thing.

xpost

I'm with acoleuthic all the way on this thread.

I Spy first, FCL second.

I'm not gonna rake through the lyrics right now but it strikes me that there's one song explicitly about class on there, and one (Disco 2000) where it comes into play, and the scenarios taking place in the rest are things not really governed by class... like one reason people still bust a nut about the importance of rave culture is that it kind of went across those nominal dividing lines and got povvos and poshos embarking on pretty similar get rich quick schemes

re: This Is Hardcore, the following tracklist would have been brilliant and its brevity would have fucked expectations WAY better than the overstuffed final version did: The Fear/Dishes/Help The Aged/This Is Hardcore/Seductive Barry/The Day After The Revolution

Party Hard and a Little Soul need to be on there too.

ewwwww

nah maybe, those trax aren't my fave tho

My first instinct was 'Underwear', but I'm not sure why. Will think on't.

Question for brits in their twenties - to what degree were you aware of the class aspects of this album when you got into it? Like, it's practically a cpncept album right down to the title - but somehow (well - not somehow - I was 13) it went completely over my head that this was an album totally and explicitly about animosity towards, well, me actually!

I guess I was a bit older than you, but, um, seriously? This was obvious. Especially when the BIG HIT SINGLE was 'Common People'.

the song "this is hardcore" needs to be dropped because it's shit - "what do you do for an encore?" OH LOL THAT'S A GREAT ONE J.C.

was disappointed they dropped the outtake "My Dog Has No Nose"

'this is hardcore' has a nice sample but lyrically yeah not so much

something changed

I guess I was a bit older than you, but, um, seriously? This was obvious. Especially when the BIG HIT SINGLE was 'Common People'.

Yeah it's just weird how blind you can be! I guess when you're only dimly aware of something it's weird to try & assimilate any non-standard view on it? I remember my dad even saying something like: 'it's funny how you like that song so much - you realise it's about you, right?' and my reaction was something like 'hm [completely displaces thought from mind for 5 years]'

i dunno man, the lyrics to 'common people' were sort of... right there? middle-class kids loved 'em though. but -- durrrr -- it tends to be suburban middle-class kids who hate suburban 9-to-5 lyfe the most.

I can totally see this point w/r/t say His'n'Hers but I don't think there's any such reading of Common People! Like, it's not saying 'reject your parents and be bohemian', it's saying 'might as well be like your parents, we're going to hate you anyway'.

The music to "This Is Hardcore" completely makes up for lyrical deficiencies IMO. (Also it was actually the first Pulp song I heard.)

These days I only ever want to hear TIH, "Seductive Barry" (aka their Shriekback impersonation) and "The Fear" off of that album, but I like all three enough to still hold onto it.

The lyrics are of course great, but what I loved about this record was its sound – the vintage keyboards, electrodisco stylings, Cocker's vocals. Nothing sounded like this album in 1996.

Like, it's not saying 'reject your parents and be bohemian', it's saying 'might as well be like your parents, we're going to hate you anyway'.

lol true
it's another reason i wasn't mad on 'em, and i dunno if el jarv grew up 'common'
song is kind of confusing insofar as the chick is greek, makes all the stuff abt class tourism... slightly oblique

with the 'suburban ennui' thing or whatever, yeah -- i had in mind other pulp stuff, not 'common people'

Actually I think the only song I know off of Different Class is "Common People" (which is far and away my favorite Pulp song, so it's sort of weird that I haven't gone after the rest of the album)

Nothing sounded like this album in 1996.

― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, September 2, 2010 4:25 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

sparks were still having chart singles in 1995

"Disco 2000" is the giddiest desperation song ever written; and it was guaranteed to get thekids dancing at the indie clubs I hit eight years ago.

sparks were still having chart singles in 1995

Well, sure, but not in Amerikay.

His N Hers > We Love Life > This Is Hardcore > Different Class

Oh, I voted for "Disco 2000" -- sorry!

oh my god, that's my ordering as well!

We Love Life is soooo underrated.

for me the second half of WLL tails off. "Bad Cover Version" sounds more self-pitying than I'd like from them. But I adore "The Trees" – top five Pulp.

We Love Life is simply goddamn brilliant and sometimes is my #1

I agree with that.

I'd go as far as to say that His'N'Hers is their real masterpiece

tru

^ maybe tru. Intro a better encapsulation of that era but as nrq says, not a REAL album. (might as well be though - bound together thematically and creatively as well as funding-wise.)

ENBB OTM, but might vote for I Spy if I see this poll again. Would listen to album and decide properly if I had time!

At the time, I thought the "we are indie so we are cool, you wear white shirts so you are awful" stuff was a bit worrisome coming from a 30-year-old man - even though it was directly calculated to speak to me and my friends! And I still vacillate between thinking this when I think about those songs, and then surrendering because they're so well-judged, and well-phrased, and he's just been waiting to express it until he HAD some power and social agency, so everything is so focussed... but then you remember that tache and the patter at the beginning of the video, you know...

There's a whole separate thread to be had about the cultural meaning of white shirts as leisure wear - they are abt 85% of what I wear leaving the house now but I feel so conflicted about it!

you feel conflicted about everything! it is your superpower!

i was hyper-aware of the class aspects of the album at the time, partly because i was just starting to read all the music press i could get my hands on and they all emphasised it, and partly because i was hyper-aware of class at the time myself. i found it really hard to navigate the question of whether i was 'allowed' to like the record when i was pretty clearly posh myself.

At the time, I thought the "we are indie so we are cool, you wear white shirts so you are awful" stuff was a bit worrisome coming from a 30-year-old man - even though it was directly calculated to speak to me and my friends! And I still vacillate between thinking this when I think about those songs, and then surrendering because they're so well-judged, and well-phrased, and he's just been waiting to express it until he HAD some power and social agency, so everything is so focussed... but then you remember that tache and the patter at the beginning of the video, you know...

― Teddybears.SHTML (sic), Friday, September 3, 2010 2:12 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark

yeah otm

i bought my first ever white shirt this summer. looks p balla quite frankly.

xp before i make it sound like 'i totally understood everything about everything when i was 13' let me just point out that only about 2 months ago did i realise that the keyboard at the beginning of 'sorted for e's and wizz' is meant to suggest, like, techno, rather than just being a noise.

man I had no idea 'Common People' is nearly 6 minutes long. did they play the full version on the radio?

the 'like a dog lying in the corner' bit isn't in teh radio edit iirc

It's supposed to be a nick from something specific, isn't it? (the 'sorted' intro)

xpost No, there's a 'short' version that misses out the "like a dog lying in the corner" section.

xpost again.

the 'like a dog lying in the corner' bit isn't in teh radio edit iirc

― czyczyczyczy comparative (c sharp major), Friday, September 3, 2010 10:40 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

yeah, which is... kind of unpleasant and o_O rly? says the southern, privately educated guy but still. people 'called out' damon albarn for ventriloquizing but p sure jarvs is doing the same?

That keyboard bit throws me every time, like I always assume it is the tune of the song and wait patiently for it to reappear.

Um, no he still says "they" throughout that bit.

Also, he never 'admits' to being a common people (it's all relative really), but knows more about themfrom where he'sstanding.

that keyboard bit is... The Theme by Unique II maybe?

Um, no he still says "they" throughout that bit.

Also, he never 'admits' to being a common people (it's all relative really), but knows more about themfrom where he'sstanding.

― Mark G, Friday, September 3, 2010 10:54 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

well yes... does this even make it worse?

Jarv is definitely implicated in CP, there's a hint that the rage and sneering he/the narrator wells up with is unpleasant and perhaps unearned BUT you're totally invited to let those emotions take you over as well rather than stop and consider that. basically the narrator is not presented as having any admirable characteristics BEYOND his opposition to the object of the song. as a listener, this is meant to be enough to identify with - as a reader, you can take it a bit deeper.

'something changed' because love >>>>> class wars, maaaayne

there's a hint that the rage and sneering he/the narrator wells up with is unpleasant and perhaps unearned

i think it's not so much the suggestion that the rage & sneering are unearned, but that they're sort of misdirected at this basically harmless/guileless rich girl, simply for being who she is. agree that the song builds to this ecstasy of self-righteous fury and that it effectively invites us to share & revel in that. also that in its terrible intensity it begins to subvert itself, making us think about the anger's underlying sources and why it's choosing this particular target for its expression. how much of that is intentional and what level of authorial distance is intended are left completely unclear, which adds to the song's power, imo.

common people, btw

common people, woyeh

The class war aspects were the parts I most enjoyed, or was most energised by. "Take your Year in Provence and shove it up your asssss". I can relate.

Yeah, and what happened next? (wrt Jarvis I mean)

Always struck me as weird that he pronounced it "ass" (oh and when I said upthread that there wasn't much class talk on the album outside of 'CP' I forgot about this verse)

sort of torn between feelingcalledlove and something changed. some sweet chord changes in the latter, and a temporal conundrum in the spirit of dylan

Underwear for its massive chorus and vintage Bowie stylings.

Listening to this album for the first time in 10 years as a result of this and related threads.

We Love Life > His 'n Hers > This is Hardcore > Different Class (challopsy I know)

Of this record, "I Spy", followed closely by "F.E.E... etc.

Underwear for me, I think.

Another interesting thing about this album: possibly (and correct me if I'm wrong, which I probably am) the first creative use of the jewel case CD format, with the postcards and the artwork that was explicitly designed to suit CDs. Not surprising considering the band's background, but well realised nevertheless.

Also "take your year in Provence and shove it up your arse", what a lyric.

And another thing: the handbag house remix of "Disco 2000" is way better than the original version.

I haven't checked ILM in a few days but I've had "Disco 2000" in my head all day. Now, here I am, there's this poll and I'm voting for "I Spy".

Underwear. Should've been a single.

the sleeve design worked even better on the LP, what with the frame and all

We Love Life > His 'n Hers > This is Hardcore > Different Class (challopsy I know)

challotm

Wasn't Experimental Jet Set Trash No Star released before Different Class?

yes

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

i was not able to listen to this, so i'm voting for "Disco 2000" because of Deborah.

Gonna go down into my grave and turn into dirt loving This is Hardcore. Every chorus on that record is a train. Sorry aer0.

This record is still kind of impossible to pin to one song. Going with the immediate intentions of my gut: "Underwear." Creepy, sad, Pulp.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

I forgot how lovely "Something Changed" is.

wow live bed show woulda been top 4 or 5 i'd have thought maybe. I Spy is amazing innit though?

And here it is conducted by Anne Dudley:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxdgvpC3v0g

"I Spy" is probably my least favorite track, although this album is really all killer no filler

Your name is Deborah (Deborah), oh it never suited cha

many xpost

in the context of an album about aging rather awkwardly into your thirties and maybe out of some of your youthful romantic notions, the line "what do you do for an encore" is kind of a killer. unless i'm massively misreading things here (which i am not ruling out).

This album gets the "all the tracks got voted" medallion.

Little story being told there.
'I spy, something changed - underwear. F.E.E.L.I.N.G.C.A.L.L.E.D.L.O.V.E!'

"Something Changed" is a beautiful keeper and a lot of the rest of this alb is nerd revenge fantasies wrecked by nerd being in power