The Led Zeppelin Plagiarism Compendium

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Led Zeppelin

Babe I'm Gonna Leave You: Joan Baez - Babe I'm Gonna Leave You (Anne Brendon)
Dazed and Confused: Jake Holmes - Dazed and Confused
Black Mountain Side: Bert Jansch - Black Water Side
How Many More Times: Howlin Wolf - How Many More Years / Albert King - The Hunter / Jeff Beck - Bolero
Communication Breakdown: Eddie Cochran - Nervous Breakdown
Your Time Is Gonna Come: Traffic - Dear Mr. Fantasy

Led Zeppelin II

Whole lotta love: Muddy Waters (Willie Dixon) - You Need Love / Small Faces - You Need Loving
Lemon Song: Howlin' Wolf - Killing Floor / Robert Johnson - Travelling Riverside Blues
Moby Dick: Bobby Parker - Watch Your Step
Bring it on Home: Sonny Boy Williamson - Bring it on Back

Led Zeppelin III

Since I've Been Loving You: Moby Grape - Never
Hats Off: Bukka White - Shake 'em on Down

Led Zeppelin IV

Stairway to Heaven: Spirit - Taurus

Physical Graffiti

Custard pie: Sleepy John Estes - Drop Down Mama
In my time of dying: Bob Dylan - In my time of dying (Blind Willie Johnson)

Presence

Nobody’s Fault But Mine: Blind Willie Johnson - Nobody’s Fault But Mine

Moka, Thursday, 19 August 2010 02:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

Didn't have the courtesy to credit any of these artists but at least they were kind of enough to give hints on the titles for us to know which song they were attempting to rip off.

Moka, Thursday, 19 August 2010 02:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

Stones did this with some songwriting credits (e.g. "Melody" credited Billy Preston for "inspiration"; Ronnie Wood got the same for "Hey Negrita").

Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 19 August 2010 02:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

Nobody’s Fault But Mine: Blind Willie Johnson - Nobody’s Fault But Mine

this one seems more than a hint. was it a cover version?

Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 19 August 2010 02:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

Some CD reissues releases have a few (no doubt court-ordered and/or settlement-stipulated) updated credits, e.g., "Whole Lotta Love" co-credited to Dixon, "Lemon Song" co-credited to Wolf.

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Thursday, 19 August 2010 03:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

Nobody’s Fault But Mine: Blind Willie Johnson - Nobody’s Fault But Mine

this one seems more than a hint. was it a cover version?

― Daniel, Esq.

Yep, an uncredited one at that though. The song on the Presence album is credited to Plant/Page. When confronted about it Page said it was a public domain traditional blues song and that it didn't even belong to Blind Willie Johnson in the first place. It is sort of a gray area for sure since although BWJ was the first musician to record it, it wasn't registered with any copyright association and resides indeed in public domain.

Moka, Thursday, 19 August 2010 04:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

snooze

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 19 August 2010 04:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

The Bob Dylan Plagiarism Compendium

The Pablo Picasso Plagiarism Compendium

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 19 August 2010 04:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

King Lear is an uncredited ripoff of King Leir

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 19 August 2010 04:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

Same should be said about 'Drop Down Mama' by Estes and 'In my time of dying' first recorded by Blind Willie Johnson as 'Jesus Make Up My Dying Bed' (Their version is definitely inspired by Bob Dylan's version and not the former though) both of them also without copyright registers.

It seems the boys grew smarter with each subsequent album and only took credit for songs in public domain as time passed by.

Moka, Thursday, 19 August 2010 04:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

The Stones ones are different though - those aren't ripping off existing songs, it's ripping off the guys who were playing with them.

Loup-Garou G (The Yellow Kid), Thursday, 19 August 2010 04:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

The Bob Dylan Plagiarism Compendium

The Pablo Picasso Plagiarism Compendium

― Hadrian VIII, Thursday, August 19, 2010 12:22 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Idiotic. These Zeppelin ripoffs are clearly plagiarism and theyve been called on the carpet on most. the most egregious is the theft of Dazed and Confused, the guy who originally did it was apparently ignorant of his rights and slept on them until the statute of limitations ran.

Zeppelin sucks.

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 13:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

King Lear is an uncredited ripoff of King Leir

― Hadrian VIII, Thursday, August 19, 2010 12:25 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Totally missing the point. Again.

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 13:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

Zeppelin sucks.

Yeah, I used to think "Oh, Whole lotta love is soet of based on a similar thing on the Small Faces album, so I'm told" until I actually got to hear the track and then I thought "IT'S EXACTLY THE RUDDY SAME!!!"

Mark G, Thursday, 19 August 2010 13:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

"Zeppelin sucks" = why you can't be honestly engaged on this topic

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 19 August 2010 13:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

Srsly though Bill, this lingering "rock war" ("SABBATH VS ZEPPELIN: WHO WILL BE MASTER")from your pimply Creem magazine days, it's time to let it go.

It's all good. I mean, literally, it's all good.

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 19 August 2010 13:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

Love Zep, but everytime some kind of rockist says 'DJs don't make real music' I remind them of what Jimmy Page did.

Shin Oliva Suzuki, Thursday, 19 August 2010 13:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

Whether or not the band borrowed or stole, no one borrowed or stole John Bonham and John Paul Jones.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 19 August 2010 13:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

"Zeppelin sucks" = why you can't be honestly engaged on this topic

― Hadrian VIII, Thursday, August 19, 2010 9:40 AM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I'll engage in whatever fucking topic I feel like, thank you.

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 13:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

Ha, no, I meant my own engagement.

And yet here we are!

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 19 August 2010 13:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

Srsly though Bill, this lingering "rock war" ("SABBATH VS ZEPPELIN: WHO WILL BE MASTER")from your pimply Creem magazine days, it's time to let it go.

^if you think this is what I am doing, you're kidding yourself.

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 13:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

Whether or not the band borrowed or stole, no one borrowed or stole John Bonham and John Paul Jones.

ya srsly, regardless of where they got the songs from, they still had to play them

and they played the SHIT out of them

Trouble-Making Foods (HI DERE), Thursday, 19 August 2010 13:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

Those two guys may have, but it's kind of ruined for me by the loosy goosy, violin bow wielding sloppy guitar playing, the 26 minute rockabilly medleys and the faux-cocksman of a frontman. I'd rather listen to Beck, Bogert and Appice.

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 13:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

"One of the surest tests [of the superiority or inferiority of a poet] is the way in which a poet borrows. Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different." - T.S. Eliot

Un peu d'Eire, ça fait toujours Dublin (Michael White), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

Nice quote, but I doubt that you can honestly argue that Zeppelin played his tunes better than Howlin Wolf

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol guys it's 2010

call all destroyer, Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

steal or not (I think it's pretty common knowledge that Zeppelin shamelessly ripped off blues musicians using the "public domain" excuse, not exactly a smoking gun), who cares? in the end, Zeppelin's music sounds great to my ears.

besides I mean using this same slippery slope are we gonna say people who don't write their own songs suck too?

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

xpost hahah yeah srsly this is one rusty can of worms. Hasn't this been done here like 6,000 times already?

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

"One of the surest tests [of the superiority or inferiority of a poet] is the way in which a poet borrows. Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different."
And in practically every case, the original was superior than the uncredited LZ remake. I mean, Howlin' Wolf and Muddy Waters, etc, eat those boys for breakfast.

Jazzbo, Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

TS Eliot was a dick fwiw

acoleuthic, Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

god the electric blues is so fucking boring

call all destroyer, Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

led zep basically made it tolerable

call all destroyer, Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

The point of the thread is the egregiousness of their plagiarism. Obviously lots of people like the plagiarized songs, theyve sold a trillion records. I happen not to like them, which puts me in a minority, I guess. The fact that many people think they are "good" doesnt mean they werent ripped off. Which Zep acknowledged after guys like Willie Dixon sued their ass.

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

besides I mean using this same slippery slope are we gonna say people who don't write their own songs suck too?

well first off, that's not a slippery slope at all because the issue here is the dishonesty in taking other people's material; artists who perform other people's songs are crediting the songwriters and any money they make gets split with the people who wrote the song

signed, a classical singer

Trouble-Making Foods (HI DERE), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

Actually, Bill, that quote swings both ways. I like Zep fair enough and I like Howlin' Wolf but I think it's a little late to engage in the polemic about white Englishmen ripping off black American artists. They did, were successful at it, alas, and made some good music at times, even. Imso, 'tis better at this point to encourage people to buy the originals than to disparage their love of Zep or the Stones or whatever.

Un peu d'Eire, ça fait toujours Dublin (Michael White), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

the point is, does plagiarism matter? is it worth getting worked up about?

margana (anagram), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

um.... YES

Trouble-Making Foods (HI DERE), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

I mean talk about stupid questions

Trouble-Making Foods (HI DERE), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

led zep basically made it tolerable
No, they watered it down, took all the drama out of it and made it shit.

Jazzbo, Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

not a stupid question imo

xp

margana (anagram), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

Then you are stupid. Plagarism sucks.

Trouble-Making Foods (HI DERE), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

the plagiarism definitely matters, it's just that like the revelation that this occurred was old even by 1990.

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

Actually, and I am merely quoting the master, the best way to resolve this dispute is surely champagne and reefer.

Un peu d'Eire, ça fait toujours Dublin (Michael White), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

there was one debate I read somewhere (newsgroups???) that theorized that Led Zeppelin were subscribing to the old accepted notion amongst blues guitarists that blues was a 'shared' communal music so that ideas could be used collectively and 'borrowed', per se.

Although as one of the respondents correctly pointed out, that doesn't really apply when you're a major recording artist on a major label, rather than being an unsigned blues guitarist gigging at clubs.

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

Guitar Magazine also did a fairly nice breakdown of Zep's plagiarism in an issue around 1995-1997, although they focused more on one to two specific songs ("Lemon Song" was one).

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'd like to know how many albums Zeppelin sold last year. I bet it's a significant one. The plagiarism issue is still a valid one, though maybe alleviated a little bit by the fact the writers of the songs are getting a cut. Except for the poor Dazed and Confused guy. And Page did a flat out note for note rip of that song, if I remember correctly.

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

"Actually, and I am merely quoting the master, the best way to resolve this dispute is surely champagne and reefer."

Certainly works for me.

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

plagiarism or not, I can't trick my ears into not liking what I hear when "Dazed and Confused" comes on. there's no contradiction in finding the act itself deplorable while still "liking" the music

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

loosy goosy, violin bow wielding sloppy guitar playing

LOL you know what the blues really needs to make it exciting is rigid, perfectly exercised technique.

a mix of music (Lionel Ritchie) and kicks (my tongue) (Phil D.), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

many xps yeah that's what drives me crazy--it's not that plagiarism "doesn't matter," it's that everyone knows this and knew it 20 years ago, the impacted parties are all dead, and yet the opening post of this thread is like some smoking gun shit that is suddenly supposed to do....what? how is this information supposed to impact me?

call all destroyer, Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

the solo in "Rock 'n roll" is so sloppy that I gave up trying to learn it cuz I can't make out half of it. but uhm are we really talking about sloppiness as a detractor in blues-based rock 'n roll, cuz if so there's a lot of bands that will need to snap their guitar cases shut.

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

Q: Are the second and third in this series of pictures "deplorable"?

(Neither credits Goya)

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

hey guyz do you think HEre Comes the Hotstepper is a ripoff of Come Together

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

xxp well I didn't know all this, I find the debate mildly diverting and it's good that it has its own thread on ilm. so this information 'impacts' me for sure.

margana (anagram), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

glad 4 u

call all destroyer, Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

hey I was just about to post those paintings! first one is Velazquez though not Goya.

margana (anagram), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

that would be extra deplorable if they had credited goya then

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

Big payout

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

well I guess it's only a matter of time before the sister "The Quentin Tarantino Plagiarism Compendium" thread gets started on ILE.

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

altho that one is fairly more engaging because it's ongoing as he's still making movies

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

My problem with Zeppelin (besides Robert Plant’s voice) is not so much that they borrowed or stole songs, but that they didn’t even bother to acknowledge those artists who helped shape their sound. The Rolling Stones once refused to appear on a TV show unless Howlin’ Wolf was given a spot, too. In the folk or blues tradition, it’s quite common to “borrow” themes, melodies, etc. — Dylan’s been doing it his whole career. But the guy has always trumpeted his admiration for those who influenced him, naming names in countless interviews for nearly 50 years now. He helped bring a lot of his musical heroes to the public eye and, yes, increase their record sales (whether they actually saw a dime of the profits or not).
LZ basically said: “This is our song. Fuck you.”

Jazzbo, Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

hey, and you guys don't have Morbs to deal with in this thread!

xpost

Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

I love Robert Plant's voice. also I don't think anybody here is saying "plagiarism is a-ok".

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

except for anagram

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

well I dunno if I would say it was a-ok. and I'm no Led Zep fan. but in general the knowledge that some riff or lyric or something is ripped off is not enough to spoil my enjoyment of it.

margana (anagram), Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

Hey, I think they were an awesome-sounding group (again, except for Plant, whose shrieking is more painful to my ears than nails on a chalkboard). But they managed to distinguish themselves as being even bigger twats than nearly every other multiplatinum-selling band. That takes some doing.

Jazzbo, Thursday, 19 August 2010 14:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

Led Zeppelin is just ripped off blues, in fact their music is exactly the same as Blind Willie Johnson. In fact if people weren't so racist you could have put Blind Willie Johnson in front of an arena and it would have had the same effect on the audience as Led Zeppelin because Led Zeppelin did not actually bring anything to the music.

Theodore "Thee Diddy" Roosevelt (Hurting 2), Thursday, 19 August 2010 15:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

The Bob Dylan Plagiarism Compendium

The Pablo Picasso Plagiarism Compendium

― Hadrian VIII, Thursday, August 19, 2010 12:22 AM Bookmark

The Robert Johnson Plagiarism Compendium

The Miles Davis Plagiarism Compendium

etc

Theodore "Thee Diddy" Roosevelt (Hurting 2), Thursday, 19 August 2010 15:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

The Stones ones are different though - those aren't ripping off existing songs, it's ripping off the guys who were playing with them.

this is a boring argument/thread in general but I would just like to point out that this is historically inaccurate (see: Staple Singers, tons of others)

glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 August 2010 15:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

but that they didn’t even bother to acknowledge those artists who helped shape their sound.

I don't think this is true at all either fwiw

glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 August 2010 15:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

Page namechecks the author of In My Time of Dying from the stage in How the West Was Won iirc

glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 August 2010 15:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

this is a boring argument/thread in general....

^ then why did you click on it?

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

I didn't think Moka's post was argumentative or critical - it is interesting to pore over Zep's sources (as I enjoyed doing with this comp: http://www.discogs.com/Various-The-Roots-Of-Led-Zeppelin/release/519398). But when it turned into: RIPOFF ARTISTS! J'ACCUSE then it got bad.

sorry Bill

glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

I said this on some other thread but one of the things that I think gets overstated is that while Zep borrowed/stole liberally (I don't think there's anything at all wrong with this, fwiw) they're stuff rarely actually SOUNDS like the original. the production/arrangement/performance of material was a central aspect of Zeppelin, and claiming that, for example, they're version of Nobody's Fault But Mine bears anything more than a passing resemblance to Bukka's stripped-down, lo-fi original is just ridiculous.

glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, that.

Theodore "Thee Diddy" Roosevelt (Hurting 2), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

^^^^^^^

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

Totally disagree. I like how you picked that one and not a complete and utter ripoff like Dazed and Confused. And Ive never heard Bukka White's version, but a steal is a steal.

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

rock must be virtuous

goole, Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

Just because you turn your amps up to 11 and feed Bonham some extra-fine Bolivian prior to recording what was originally a mellow number doesnt justify the plagiarism.

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

If they had been a real band, they wouldnt have to rip guys off. Has nothing to do with virtue.

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

you think they're that bad? i'm no fan, mind you, but that's QUITE A CLAIM.

Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

man what am i gonna do with these fake Led Zeppelin cds

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

i mean before today i considered myself a led zeppelin fan but after being smacked in the face with this 20+ year old evidence that everybody already knew, I think it's time to reconsider....

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol "real band"

I dunno Bill these are just kinda lame ad hominem attacks

glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

So i guess what Im saying is that this point is irrelevant:

"they're version of Nobody's Fault But Mine bears anything more than a passing resemblance to Bukka's stripped-down, lo-fi original is just ridiculous"

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

I can't comment on that cuz I haven't heard Bukka's, but how you got from that to Led Zeppelin not being a real band = o_O.

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

you think they're that bad? i'm no fan, mind you, but that's QUITE A CLAIM.

― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, August 19, 2010 12:50 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I'm not a fan.

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

you think this sounds JUST LIKE the Zep version = you have no ears

glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

I never said that. Check my post at 12:51. Arrangement and songwriting are two completely different things.

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

they weren't writing a term paper jeez

goole, Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

so let me ask this, if Led Zeppelin went back and time and wrote the exact same music but gave proper credits/recognition from the bungee, would you be a fan?

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

a complete and utter ripoff like Dazed and Confused

it is not a complete and utter ripoff fyi

glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

a complete and utter ripoff would have also kept the Zep version under 4 minutes

glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

I suspect that Bill is just butthurt that Sabbath's "War Pigs" is a COMPLETE AND UTTER RIPOFF of Zep's "Good Times, Bad Times"

glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

like just cuz they changed some words around and added a long improvisatory section in the middle and slowed it down doesn't mean it isn't the worst most unforgiveable sin imaginable and btw Sabbath are not a real band

glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

Just because you turn your amps up to 11 and feed Bonham some extra-fine Bolivian prior to recording what was originally a mellow number doesnt justify the plagiarism.

― Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, August 19, 2010 12:46 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

just because you take a boring song and make it awesome oh wait

call all destroyer, Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

the whole point of music, and especially hard rock music, is to be awesome

call all destroyer, Thursday, 19 August 2010 16:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

led zep and black sabbath were both awesome. case closed.

tylerw, Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

man what am i gonna do with these fake Led Zeppelin cds
OK I laughed.

Jazzbo, Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

anyway ... back to Moka's list:

does Bonham quoting Max Roach in Moby Dick count?

glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

Ok this list totally left off that they lifted "Immigrant Song" from The Osmonds' "Hold Her Tight."

full of country goodness and green pea-ness (Abbbottt), Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm being sued by John Cage for ripping off "4'33" while sleeping

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

so let me ask this, if Led Zeppelin went back and time and wrote the exact same music but gave proper credits/recognition from the bungee, would you be a fan?

― michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, August 19, 2010 12:54 PM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

no

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

I suspect that Bill is just butthurt that Sabbath's "War Pigs" is a COMPLETE AND UTTER RIPOFF of Zep's "Good Times, Bad Times"

― glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, August 19, 2010 12:56 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

When did I once mention Black Sabbath on this thread?

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

you just did

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

hilarious, i mean before that

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

so let me ask this, if Led Zeppelin went back and time and wrote the exact same music but gave proper credits/recognition from the bungee, would you be a fan?

― michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, August 19, 2010 12:54 PM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

no

― Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, August 19, 2010 12:23 PM

Ok then, it seems that you don't like them as a band simply cuz you don't like their songs, or in the case of the 'ripped off' songs, the way they perform them. upthread you seemed to be implying that the uncredited ripoff played a large part in your dislike of the music is why I asked.

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

Correct. I understand i am in the minority

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

oh this is TOOMUCH

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

*shrug* I know quite a few people who don't like Zep, it's not a crime.

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

can't believe led zep ripped off the completely original 100% unborrowed tunes of these blues masters

hongthrone: norsk arisk synth pop (crüt), Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

this thread = The Bill Magill plagiarism of some tedious assholes I went to college with compendium

Ground Zero Mostel (Hurting 2), Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

This thread needs customized version of
http://i50.tinypic.com/vg0kmx.jpg

The Redd, The Blecch & Other Things (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

The Redd, The Blecch & Other Things (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

this thread = The Bill Magill plagiarism of some tedious assholes I went to college with compendium

― Ground Zero Mostel (Hurting 2), Thursday, August 19, 2010 1:30 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Jeez, sorry for discussing plagiarism by Led Zeppelin on a thread about plagiarism by Led Zeppelin.

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 17:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

When did I once mention Black Sabbath on this thread?

― Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, August 19, 2010 5:24 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark

Please to read your own display name.

a mix of music (Lionel Ritchie) and kicks (my tongue) (Phil D.), Thursday, 19 August 2010 18:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

Again, the question is when i ever mentioned that band on this thread.

Sabbath to Ulver: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Thursday, 19 August 2010 18:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

great thread.

i never knew the zep ripped off so many truly songs that were 1000% original in the first place.

_▂▅▇█▓▒░◕‿‿◕░▒▓█▇▅▂_ (Steve Shasta), Thursday, 19 August 2010 18:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

TRULY

_▂▅▇█▓▒░◕‿‿◕░▒▓█▇▅▂_ (Steve Shasta), Thursday, 19 August 2010 18:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

I just hope it gets someone to listen to Spirit, eh? They're a pretty great (if kinda goofY) band.

full of country goodness and green pea-ness (Abbbottt), Thursday, 19 August 2010 18:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

can't believe led zep ripped off the completely original 100% unborrowed tunes of these blues masters

― hongthrone: norsk arisk synth pop (crüt), Thursday, August 19, 2010 8:29 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

^^^ the money shot

NoTimeBeforeTime, Thursday, 19 August 2010 19:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

The funny thing is, The Yardbirds were doing this shit way before Plant & Page signed on.

Your cousin, Marvin Cobain (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 19 August 2010 20:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

I don't think anybody has pointed out yet how the Beatles shamelessly and egregiously ripped off the Rutles in similar fashion, raping their career.

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 20:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

if the Beatles had been a real band they wouldn't have had to rip off Chuck Berry and John Cage

glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 August 2010 20:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

beatles suck

Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 19 August 2010 20:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

also Tom Waits ripped off Rolf from the Muppets vocally

michangelo wuz a party d00d (San Te), Thursday, 19 August 2010 20:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

I've been thinking lately that Lady Gaga might have stolen a couple of things from Madonna, does anyone else think so? Maybe it's just me, but I think "Poker Face" sounds a lot like a sped-up version of "Live To Tell". What a rip off!

NoTimeBeforeTime, Thursday, 19 August 2010 20:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rutles#Lawsuits

Following the release of the 1978 The Rutles album, ATV Music, the then-owner of the publishing rights to the Beatles catalog, sued Innes for copyright infringement. Though Innes hired a musicologist to defend the originality of his songs[2], he settled with ATV out of court for 50% of the royalties and shared songwriting credit on the 14 songs included on the album.

The Redd, The Blecch & Other Things (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 19 August 2010 20:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

I've been thinking lately that Lady Gaga might have stolen a couple of things from Madonna, does anyone else think so?

omg no!

mama monster is an original.

Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 19 August 2010 20:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

Thanks to this thread for schooling me on the Jake Holmes track. Nice!

Chaim Poutine (NickB), Thursday, 19 August 2010 20:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

"also I don't think anybody here is saying "plagiarism is a-ok"."

i'm not really here, but i think its a-ok.

scott seward, Thursday, 19 August 2010 20:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm waiting for Blind Willie McTell's "Achilles Last Stand" to surface one of these days.

Zooster vs. The Slapp (Capitaine Jay Vee), Thursday, 19 August 2010 21:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

ooh I see we haven't referenced Bonham's quote of Little Richard's "You Keep a Knockin' (But You Can't Come In)" At the beginning of "Rock 'n' Roll" either...

glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 August 2010 15:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

man if i close my eyes and listen i honestly can't tell which is which

underrated klaatu albums i have loved (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 23 August 2010 16:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

You're probably clicking the same button if yr eyes are closed.

Mark G, Monday, 23 August 2010 17:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

The older I get and the more music I hear the better Led Zeppelin gets.

Hadrian VIII, Monday, 23 August 2010 20:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'll admit I 'quite liked' PhysGraf, at least parts of it anyway.

Mark G, Monday, 23 August 2010 20:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

I mean in every respect — the songwriting and the musicianship and yes the STYLE (I know this is not the cw but in retrospect their exceptional taste is just more and more apparent), but mostly the sonics. I just don't own many records that sound better than the ones Jimmy Page made.

Hadrian VIII, Monday, 23 August 2010 20:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

I just don't own many records that sound better than the ones Jimmy Page made.

I've always maintained that Page is a lot more interesting as a producer than he is as a guitarist. (despite his great scenes in It Might Get Loud)

Elvis Telecom, Monday, 23 August 2010 20:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

I agree and I don't think this diminishes his guitar playing one bit.

Hadrian VIII, Monday, 23 August 2010 20:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

been avoiding It Might Get Loud cuz of the edge but I am pretty curious about the Page bits. He was an amazing producer, the engineering on the Zep records is next level.

glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 August 2010 20:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

The part in his house among his record collection where he's blissing out to Link Wray is pretty great.

Hadrian VIII, Monday, 23 August 2010 20:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

Also re: above clip when he's in the foyer at Headley Grange explaining how they set up Bonzo's kit for Levee. Awesome.

Hadrian VIII, Monday, 23 August 2010 20:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

There's about 5-10 minutes of that movie worth watching, all involving Page. I wouldn't recommend sitting through the whole thing.

My totem animal is a hamburger. (WmC), Monday, 23 August 2010 20:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah it's otherwise kind of a cringe-fest. The other two guys wear "hat" hats and have relatively limited perspectives/bags of tricks.

Hadrian VIII, Monday, 23 August 2010 20:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

Whoever had the bright idea for the big climax to be the three of them getting together and playing that massive guitar anthem "The Weight" should be kicked in the nuts.

My totem animal is a hamburger. (WmC), Monday, 23 August 2010 20:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

So so painful.

Hadrian VIII, Monday, 23 August 2010 20:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

Absolutely the most wtf part about the whole thing, aside from the casting.

Hadrian VIII, Monday, 23 August 2010 20:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

i liked the movie quite a bit, but yeah "the weight" is one of the most wtf musical moments in cinematic history. and my favorite wtf moment within that wtf moment is edge suddenly realizing, just as they're about to play it, that they've been practicing the verses wrong, with an Em chord where a Bm should go. it struck me as wft-ily odd that three guitar greats could miss that. it also made me feel significantly better about myself.

fact checking cuz, Monday, 23 August 2010 21:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

Whoever had the bright idea for the big climax to be the three of them getting together and playing that massive guitar anthem "The Weight" should be kicked in the nuts.
lol, i haven't seen this yet, but my friend who has ranted about "the weight" sequence for about six months.

tylerw, Monday, 23 August 2010 21:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

ranting friend otm

My totem animal is a hamburger. (WmC), Monday, 23 August 2010 21:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

"The older I get and the more music I hear the better Led Zeppelin gets." ― Hadrian VIII

^^^ YES.

jaybabcock, Monday, 23 August 2010 21:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

Copy/pasting my post from "It Might Get Loud"

Finally got around to watching this and yeah, the high-concept gave me a bad taste but the Page stuff was great. He was basically the only one of the three with anything meaningful to say and it was kinda neat seeing him quietly analyze what the other guys were doing (like the run through "I Will Follow") and then make it sound like Zeppelin.

Best part: Page cutting into "Whole Lotta Love" and Edge and White both bug-eyeing out because Jimmy Page Is Playing Zeppelin Right In Front Of Them.

― Elvis Telecom, Sunday, June 6, 2010 12:49 AM (2 months ago)

Elvis Telecom, Monday, 23 August 2010 22:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

Here is a cartoon-slide review of a book that seems to be relevant to our discussion. It has Ben Franklin as Superman leading us through the slides, but I prefer to think of the guy as Shakey Mo Collier in tights leading the pro-plagiarism brigade. Substitute the "BF" on his chest for "SMC". Enjoy:

http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2010/08/23/common_as_air_lewis_hyde/slideshow.html

Zeppelin to Howlin Wolf: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Tuesday, 24 August 2010 19:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

The Gift is terrific book.

Hadrian VIII, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 19:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

"A" terrific book, even. Ironically it was the book that convinced me to lend out books again after never getting so many back...and I never got it back :(

Hadrian VIII, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 19:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I used to think "Oh, Whole lotta love is soet of based on a similar thing on the Small Faces album, so I'm told" until I actually got to hear the track and then I thought "IT'S EXACTLY THE RUDDY SAME!!!"

Yeah, more or less. Led Zeppelin rips off the Small Faces track "You Need Loving" which was itself more or less ripped off from Willie Dixon's "You Need Love". And yet, hilariously, 20 years later Willie Dixon sues Zep instead of the Faces! And wins his share of the publishing royalies. Shrewd guy, considering that Led Zeppelin II sold 93 times as many copies as The Small Faces over the years.

Myonga Vön Bontee, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 23:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

doesn't eddie kramer deserve most/all of the credit for the actual engineering on zep records?

gross rainbow of haerosmith (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Tuesday, 24 August 2010 23:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

I dunno I think that's similar to crediting Chuck Britz for all the weird stuff on the BB's records, or Geoff Emerick for the Beatles

bring me your finest milksteak and a side of jellybeans (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 24 August 2010 23:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

doesn't eddie kramer deserve most/all of the credit for the actual engineering on zep records?

No.

Veðrafjǫrðr heimamaður (ecuador_with_a_c), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 09:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

Specifically, Page swapped engineers around so people like you wouldn't say things like that (about the engineers I mean, not Kramer in particular). I mean, they seemed to manage alright without him on IV.

Veðrafjǫrðr heimamaður (ecuador_with_a_c), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 09:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

"I consciously kept changing engineers because I didn't want people to think that they were responsible for our sound. I wanted people to know it was me."

Veðrafjǫrðr heimamaður (ecuador_with_a_c), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 09:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

Sounds like a peach of a guy.

Zeppelin to Howlin Wolf: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 13:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

If he gave all his money to earthquake victims, you'd suspect it was a tax avoidance scheme. We get it, you hate Zeppelin, etc.

My totem animal is a hamburger. (WmC), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 13:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

Well, I saw some recent interviews. RobPlant seemed like a nice guy. Page did not.

Mark G, Wednesday, 25 August 2010 14:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

Task Brasil was given an enormous boost in 1997 with a very generous donation by Jimmy Page, the Led Zeppelin rock icon, who witnessed first hand the deprivation of the children and troubles in the favelas whilst playing in Rio de Janeiro. The money donated was used to buy a plot of land in Santa Teresa on which ‘Casa Jimmy’ was built to provide a safe and happy home for a lucky few of the abandoned children.

Showoff! Carpetbagger!

http://www.taskbrasil.org.uk/

Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, 25 August 2010 16:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

Page made those kids poor in the first place dontchaknow. also I think he killed their parents.

bring me your finest milksteak and a side of jellybeans (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 16:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

for a 'lucky few'. WHAT ABOUT EVERYONE ELSE JIMMY?????

also jimmy has yet to deny the rumors that he killed 100,000 people in East Timor. IF YOU'RE INNOCENT WHY AINTCHOO TALKIN ABOUT IT

funky brewster (San Te), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 17:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

Before recording Presence in 1976 Jimmy Page massacred thousands in the Laotian foothills and FAILED TO CREDIT POL POT.

Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, 25 August 2010 17:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol

funky brewster (San Te), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 17:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

Those aren't pearl inlays in his fretboard, they're teeth.

My totem animal is a hamburger. (WmC), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 17:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

"The Rain Song" totally ripped off George Harrison's "Something" - the two-chord intro is identical. But the compendium didn't mention it because Harrison himself stole it from the Chiffons.

Myonga Vön Bontee, Wednesday, 25 August 2010 17:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

Todd Rundgren also once accused George Harrison of stealing his production credits on some album (don't remember which one, the quote was in Guitar mgazine though)

funky brewster (San Te), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 17:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

(xp) and the chiffons totally ripped off jake holmes.

fact checking cuz, Wednesday, 25 August 2010 17:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

Steered clear of this thread for a while but it was worth clicking on to read about "The Weight."

I've always maintained that Page is a lot more interesting as a producer than he is as a guitarist.

Like his playing best on that suppressed live Yardbirds album.

build my challops high (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 18:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

Todd Rundgren also once accused George Harrison of stealing his production credits on some album (don't remember which one, the quote was in Guitar mgazine though)

Must've been one of the Badfinger records.

a mix of music (Lionel Ritchie) and kicks (my tongue) (Phil D.), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 18:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

ahh yes that's who it was

funky brewster (San Te), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 18:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

xposts - And Jake Holmes' "No Time Or Space" was totally ripped off without credit by Bernie Krause before Harrison ever had a chance to rip it off the uncredited Krause without credit

Myonga Vön Bontee, Wednesday, 25 August 2010 18:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

Still, you have to give him credit.

Mark G, Thursday, 26 August 2010 14:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

ZEPPELIN RULES!

sport (crüt), Saturday, 28 August 2010 20:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

3 years pass...

this was a good thread

been in a led zep kinda mood lately, it still happens to me every couple of years or so

Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 February 2014 03:49 (6 months ago) Permalink

Basically I think it diminishes them as people that they didn't give co-writing credits in at least some of these cases. About 10% of them or so are really egregious cases of stealing, e.g. Dazed and Confused. At the same time, Jake Holmes's version kind of sucks compared to Led Zeppelin. So they're diminished as people but not as a kick ass band.

Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 February 2014 03:51 (6 months ago) Permalink

What was the response to Led Zeppelin's "plagiarism" at the time? Were there astute critics who pointed it out in the press? Was the public attitude toward such things different back then?

Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 February 2014 17:23 (6 months ago) Permalink

the press were already pretty adversarial towards LZ at the time, and it had little impact on their success, so I'm guessing if it was pointed out it was also ignored.

the "Weird Al" Yankovic of country music (stevie), Monday, 10 February 2014 17:38 (6 months ago) Permalink

Would be interesting to read more about it -- I imagine there was a strong strain of blues/folk nerdery in GB at the time and Zeppelin probably sounded to them like Blues Hammer to Steve Buscemi's character in Ghost World

Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 February 2014 17:44 (6 months ago) Permalink

I remember when Michael Jackson's "Will You Be There?" controversy (ie the one with the foreign artist who claimed it ripped off his song before it was discovered that both ripped off a 40s tune), MTV did a shitty segment on it and then at one point, brought out a band who wrote a song that sounded somewhat similar to "Kashmir" and brought Page/Plant out to comment.

They, of course, were very ambivalent (comments like "I dunno, songs occasionally have similarities"), but I felt like MTV was trying to back them into a gotcha moment so they could go "OH? LED ZEPPELIN HAS A PROBLEM WITH SONG APPROPRIATION? REALLY?"

Lesbian has fucking riffs for days (Neanderthal), Monday, 10 February 2014 17:45 (6 months ago) Permalink

in re the OP list -- so there's no plagiarism at all on Houses of the Holy?

Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 February 2014 19:31 (6 months ago) Permalink

I stand by everything i posted on this thread 3.5 years ago

Prince Kajuku (Bill Magill), Monday, 10 February 2014 19:36 (6 months ago) Permalink

well look what the toilet plunger plunged up

Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 February 2014 19:37 (6 months ago) Permalink

mature, very mature

Prince Kajuku (Bill Magill), Monday, 10 February 2014 19:44 (6 months ago) Permalink

Again, not sure why you would get on somebody for criticizing Led Zeppelin's plagiarism on a Led Zeppelin plagiarism board.

Prince Kajuku (Bill Magill), Monday, 10 February 2014 19:58 (6 months ago) Permalink

I think criticizing them for not crediting it is very reasonable. Criticizing them for not being "original" or something just seems totally ignorant of the entire history of music.

Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 February 2014 19:59 (6 months ago) Permalink

I'll criticize you for being one of the biggest fucking idiots of all time. The toilet plunger plunged up your fucking afterbirth after your mother sat on it, but somehow you miraculously survived.

Prince Kajuku (Bill Magill), Monday, 10 February 2014 20:03 (6 months ago) Permalink

and to think I thought Seth Putnam was dead

Lesbian has fucking riffs for days (Neanderthal), Monday, 10 February 2014 20:04 (6 months ago) Permalink

Jake Holmes's version kind of sucks compared to Led Zeppelin.

could not disagree with this more

föllakzoidberg (electricsound), Monday, 10 February 2014 21:11 (6 months ago) Permalink

"One of the surest tests [of the superiority or inferiority of a poet] is the way in which a poet borrows. Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different." - T.S. Eliot

Getting really tired of this moronic, contagiously stupid meme about how the truly great artists "steal." I want someone to come out in unrepentant support of this statement and then tell me how each of the following bands fit into the template: the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Oasis, Bob Dylan, the Ramones, and Nirvana.

Poliopolice, Monday, 10 February 2014 21:33 (6 months ago) Permalink

"we were the biggest nickers in the book, plagiarists extraordinaire" - P. McCartney

sleeve, Monday, 10 February 2014 21:37 (6 months ago) Permalink

dylan took people's arrangements of songs, and sometimes lyrics and melodies from trad tunes, most recently stole some stuff from a japanese book and some other old poetry on recent albums

nirvana were embarassed cuz they felt like ppl would just laugh as smells like teen spirit as a pixies ripoff

oasis stole that coke commercial, but they were kind of a shitty band overall tho

ramones probably ripped off some old obscure girl group shit or something, but they are the ramones they rule

sXe & the banshees (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 10 February 2014 21:41 (6 months ago) Permalink

all those bands are great, and all of them borrowed liberally

How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 10 February 2014 21:42 (6 months ago) Permalink

do you really need specific examples? there's so many to choose from

How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 10 February 2014 21:42 (6 months ago) Permalink

if you want to know how and from whom the beatles, stones, oasis, dylan, the ramones and nirvana dd their stealing, just ask them. they would be happy to tell you. except oasis. you might have to pry it out of oasis with whips and tasers.

fact checking cuz, Monday, 10 February 2014 21:44 (6 months ago) Permalink

So just for fun, let's compare the Beatles (we can even limit their output to pre-1965) and, say, the Yardbirds. If you had to name one of these bands plagiarizers and the other borrowers, how would you assign them?

Poliopolice, Monday, 10 February 2014 21:44 (6 months ago) Permalink

Congrats on not understanding the TS Eliot quote

Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 February 2014 21:45 (6 months ago) Permalink

My point is that the meme itself is just plain dumb, reductive, and serves no other purpose than to make the person who repeats it sound like they have some profound insight into the nature of reality.

Poliopolice, Monday, 10 February 2014 21:45 (6 months ago) Permalink

welcome to the internet

Lesbian has fucking riffs for days (Neanderthal), Monday, 10 February 2014 21:46 (6 months ago) Permalink

seems to me that the burden of proof is on you. in what way do any of those NOT borrow liberally from their peers and predecessors

xp

How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 10 February 2014 21:47 (6 months ago) Permalink

The point isn't which word you use, it's that everyone takes from other artists, but the best ones make something new and/or improved out of it, while the weaker artists sound like they're just copying or "imitating."

Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 February 2014 21:48 (6 months ago) Permalink

You're right; I don't understand the TS Eliot quote. But that's because it's stupid and falls apart under scrutiny, unless you constantly apply ad hoc rationales to when things count as borrowing and when they count as stealing, so that your previous view of certain artists can be maintained under this theory.

Poliopolice, Monday, 10 February 2014 21:48 (6 months ago) Permalink

your reading of the quote is very uptight and literal

Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 February 2014 21:48 (6 months ago) Permalink

Shakey, I don't dispute that nearly everyone borrows liberally.

Poliopolice, Monday, 10 February 2014 21:49 (6 months ago) Permalink

"Hard Day's Night" was actually largely cribbed from obscure blues musician Mango Taft's "Bitch of a Week"

Lesbian has fucking riffs for days (Neanderthal), Monday, 10 February 2014 21:50 (6 months ago) Permalink

how does "Gangnam Style" fit into all of this

frogbs, Monday, 10 February 2014 21:51 (6 months ago) Permalink

well if yr complaint is that Eliot implies some sort of literal grading system I think yeah you are missing the point. To varying degrees, some artists make something interesting out of what they borrow, while others do not. I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

xp

How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 10 February 2014 21:51 (6 months ago) Permalink

your reading of the quote is very uptight and literal

Maybe-- but then the phrase itself is fairly meaningless as far as "imitating" and "stealing" go. What are the definitions of these words in this sentence? Perhaps someone can explain in a way that doesn't require a circular and/or tautological reading (i.e. "'stealing' is when it's done well, and 'imitating' is when it's done badly).

Poliopolice, Monday, 10 February 2014 21:53 (6 months ago) Permalink

when i withdraw $80 from the bank after seeing my friend andy do the same, that's imitating. when i withdraw $80 from the bank even though i didn't have $80 in my account, that's stealing. when i spend that $80 on a jake holmes LP at a thrift shop, that's cratedigging. when i import that LP into pro tools and make a new song out of it, that's either sampling, remixing, postmodern or lame, depending on which plug-ins i use.

fact checking cuz, Monday, 10 February 2014 22:00 (6 months ago) Permalink

throw some reverb on that jawn let's get wild

sXe & the banshees (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 10 February 2014 22:01 (6 months ago) Permalink

Maybe-- but then the phrase itself is fairly meaningless as far as "imitating" and "stealing" go. What are the definitions of these words in this sentence? Perhaps someone can explain in a way that doesn't require a circular and/or tautological reading (i.e. "'stealing' is when it's done well, and 'imitating' is when it's done badly).

― Poliopolice, Monday, February 10, 2014 4:53 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's the whole point of the quote. You're being really dense, it's not analytical philosophy.

Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 February 2014 22:02 (6 months ago) Permalink

lol fcc

föllakzoidberg (electricsound), Monday, 10 February 2014 22:04 (6 months ago) Permalink

i honestly never knew what "tautological" meant but whenever i see it, it seems like a sign ilx is having some debate that's disappeared up its own butt

sXe & the banshees (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 10 February 2014 22:09 (6 months ago) Permalink

tautological = disappears up its own butt

Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 February 2014 22:10 (6 months ago) Permalink

disappearing up your own butt = original

disappearing up someone else's butt = borrowing

fact checking cuz, Monday, 10 February 2014 22:13 (6 months ago) Permalink

what if it's a taut butt

Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 February 2014 22:15 (6 months ago) Permalink

they say that butts can be taut. but originality...

Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 February 2014 22:15 (6 months ago) Permalink

i honestly never knew what "tautological" meant but whenever i see it, it seems like a sign ilx is having some debate that's disappeared up its own butt

I don't know about other conversations where this word was pulled out, but I think it's perfectly appropriate here. Here's a helpful paragraph from the wikipedia page on tautology. It seems to perfectly describe the TS Eliot statement.

In rhetoric, a tautology is a series of statements that form an argument, whereby the statements are constructed in such a way that the truth of the proposition is guaranteed or that, by defining a dissimilar or synonymous term in terms of another, the truth of the proposition or explanation cannot be disputed. Consequently, the statement conveys no useful information regardless of its length or complexity making it unfalsifiable.

1) truth of the statement guaranteed? check.
2) words defined in a way that can't be disputed? check.
3) no useful information conveyed? check.
4) unfalsifiable? check.

That, my friends, is a tautology. It is an annoying aphorism that provides absolutely no insights whatsoever.

Poliopolice, Monday, 10 February 2014 22:19 (6 months ago) Permalink

You are an annoying aphorism that provides absolutely no insights whatsoever

Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 February 2014 22:20 (6 months ago) Permalink

(i'm sorry for the tirade. It is one of these phrases that I've heard repeated so many times in bullshit circumstances that I just snapped)

Poliopolice, Monday, 10 February 2014 22:20 (6 months ago) Permalink

You are an annoying aphorism that provides absolutely no insights whatsoever

nyah nyah!

Poliopolice, Monday, 10 February 2014 22:21 (6 months ago) Permalink

this only works as a dismissal of eliot if we assume there is no other rubric by which we can assess the quality of an artist's output (hint: there probably is!)

♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Monday, 10 February 2014 22:28 (6 months ago) Permalink

"Basically I think it diminishes them as people that they didn't give co-writing credits in at least some of these cases. About 10% of them or so are really egregious cases of stealing, e.g. Dazed and Confused. At the same time, Jake Holmes's version kind of sucks compared to Led Zeppelin. So they're diminished as people but not as a kick ass band.

― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2)"

i think it diminishes them more as people that they were horrible human beings through most of the '70s, myself. fortunately for me when i listen to a record i very seldom stop to wonder what i think of the musicians as human beings.

rushomancy, Tuesday, 11 February 2014 00:54 (6 months ago) Permalink

Jesus christ, has anyone ever escaped the past unscathed? Any artist? Any anyone?

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 11 February 2014 01:33 (6 months ago) Permalink

Just Tom Hanks.

Dr. Strongo's Peppermint Paté (WilliamC), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 02:37 (6 months ago) Permalink

*reads about the mud shark incident*

"NOT YOU TOO ZEP! NOT YOU TOOOOOO!!!!!"

Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 02:41 (6 months ago) Permalink

josh: william butler yeats got out of lincoln park okay, at least.

rushomancy, Tuesday, 11 February 2014 02:49 (6 months ago) Permalink

in re the OP list -- so there's no plagiarism at all on Houses of the Holy?

"D'yer Mak'er" is a reggae rip-off of "Angel Baby" by Rosie & The Originals. (They even put "Whatever happened to Rosie & The Originals?" on the lyric sheet.)

And, of course, "The Crunge" is a James Brown pastiche.

KCB (Kent Burt), Thursday, 13 February 2014 02:14 (6 months ago) Permalink

And, of course, "The Crunge" is a James Brown pastiche.

It doesn't exactly steal from any specific James Brown tracks though, does it?

you are clinically deaf and should sell you iPod (stevie), Thursday, 13 February 2014 08:10 (6 months ago) Permalink

Can't think of any JB tracks in 5/8 time or whatever it is. Plant does namecheck a coupla Otis Redding song titles though.

Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Thursday, 13 February 2014 18:59 (6 months ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-27497950

groovypanda, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 07:58 (3 months ago) Permalink

this one seems particularly lazy. the music is just a basic groove - no huge rip there. just write some lyrics, robert.

brio, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 13:43 (3 months ago) Permalink

Zep actually co-credited this one to Ritchie Valens' mother, who I believe was originally credited on "Ooh! My Head."

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 21 May 2014 13:55 (3 months ago) Permalink

oh carry on then led zeppelin

brio, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 14:11 (3 months ago) Permalink

Given that it's literally the only instance in their entire catalog of voluntarily giving co-credit, it's understandable that someone would think otherwise.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 21 May 2014 14:14 (3 months ago) Permalink

I thought "When the Levee Breaks" was co-credited to Memphis Minnie? It is on my LP.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Wednesday, 21 May 2014 15:38 (3 months ago) Permalink

Whoops, you're right, it is!

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 21 May 2014 15:42 (3 months ago) Permalink

can't forget Charles Obscure

Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Wednesday, 21 May 2014 16:07 (3 months ago) Permalink

i'm kind of torn between thinking copyright laws should allow significantly more reuse and thinking that it's shitty to not give credit to artists you're borrowing from. complicated also by the historical power inequities that are at play when white artists steal from black artists.

what's the copyright situation in jamaica? listening to a lot of reggae recently and thinking about such a remix-heavy culture, with "version upon version" of tunes i can only imagine were not created w/ permission from copyright holders, if there were even clear owners to begin with

marcos, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 16:43 (3 months ago) Permalink

tealing from the (relatively) rich seems OK and sometimes laudable, stealing from the (relatively) poor feels wrong - but it can't work one way and not the other, can it?

Throwing Randy California's estate a bone seems like the right thing to do - but honestly don't know if he deserves a songwriting credit even though Page almost certainly ripped off Taurus a lil bit.

brio, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 16:49 (3 months ago) Permalink


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