Favourite SST Release of... 1986

EVOL > all.

hey, someone other than Husker Du will win this one!

EVOL's gonna walk away with it.

hey, someone other than Husker Du will win this one!

Guess who will win this one :)
Favourite Hüsker Dü Album?

Ah fuck, I love EVOL like everyone else, but Thinking of Empire is just exquisite.

I also really dig Kill Tunes; it's the best Leaving Trains album IMHO. That Lawndale rocks too, and the Sacramental Element tape is PaganIcons + Surviving You, Always = FUCKING AWESOME.

But Thinking of Empire it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvZ50kX_5t8

And yes I think that is Tom Watson in a pastel T-shirt and white jeans. Which makes it a million times better!

EVOL, to join the majority. I Against I would be a close runner-up for me.

http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/71a2367737d5e408e8008a27d5b01c0f/51307.jpg

Oh no! Not another God Damned Zoooogz Rift Album...

It's the Island of Living Puke, you asshole!

welcome to Clancy's Jack in the Crack, may I take your order...

What I thought then (in the most indie year of my life, probably):

albums
8. gone - gone II but never too gone
21. sonic youth - evol
25. bad brains - i against i
43. dc3 - the good hex
72. sacharine trust - we became snakes
74. gone - let's get real real gone for a change

singles
9. sonic youth - starpower/bubblegum/expressway to yr skull

EPs
26. meat puppets
33. das damen
39. minuteflag

probably not really the 125 best albums of 1986

Listed Saint Vitus Hallow's Victim #87 on my album list, but that one apparently technically came out in '85; maybe I actually meant Born Too Late, which is the one I remember actually liking (it's in my metal book), though I'm pretty sure that one came out in '87. (Wiki lists '86 for it, though -- confusing.)

Surprised Slovenly didn't make my top 125 albums -- they made my singles list at #30, and I interviewed them for Spin a year later. Also surprised that I actually once kind of liked a Sacharine Trust album.

Anyway, there are a bunch up above I wouldn't mind hearing again (Slovenly, Divine Horsemen, etc.) And I should probably vote Gone II for old time sake, but I'm gonna be boring and go with Evol (even though I think it's not as good as Sister, in retrospect.)

Ok, for all the mofos who've been brainwashed by the secret marines, here's Zoogz in all his glory:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3495149/Island%20Of%20Living%20Puke.rar

Evol...bunch of goths 'n' hippies confusing pedal point + screetching for noise rock. Meh. I shouldn't even be here. I hate wasting my time voting in polls. I could be home dubbing tapes or doing music.

EVOL is my favourite album by one of my favourite bands, and top 20 of all time for me, so of course...
I'm calling St. Vitus vs. Bad Brains for 2nd place

chuck, as an unrepentant corny indie fuck, I really love that list you linked to (I just got Off the Beaten Track). Do you have any more?

Uh is there a Vitus album on this poll?

CUZ IF NOT WHY AM I IN THIS THREAD

have you got a crystal ball? vitus is the next poll!
xp

i had to go double then triple check I hadn't missed a vitus album (im using wikipedia)

Oh wow, I just looked up that Always August album and realized I see a copy of that about once a week.

xp: yeah, i didn't think there was an applicable Vitus album, but people kept mentioning them and I thought there was secret invisible text.

will Minutemen fans auto-vote for fIREHOSE?

xp haha me too obviously.

Oops, missed this one on my top 125 albums list:

123. (various) - lovedolls superstar

hadn't missed a vitus album (im using wikipedia)

Well, in that case, Wiki (which calls Born Too Late 1986 on the Saint Vitus discography page) is contradicting itself.

Do you have any more?

More lists? Well, there are a couple other threads with similar titles for different years, if that's what you mean. Anyway, glad you like it.

lol whoops i thought Vitus there for a second..I guess I meant SY wins this poll & the next, and I'm calling Bad Brains to runner-up here, and SV to runner-up the next

Alter-Natives -- Hold Your Tongue

This one didn't sound remotely familiar, but I just did a Google image search, and can confirm that I have actually seen that LP cover before.

So what I wanna know is, who would win a Das Damen vs. Painted Willie poll? (They both basically predated "grunge" by turning '70s sludge rock shitty, right? But Green River were already doing it better in Seattle by then.)

Aside from fIREHOSE and (obviously) Evol (and Zoogz Rift, which I just downloaded), which of these should I check out soonest?

Bad Brains

the black flag album is one of their better live albums too

woah, i had totally forgotten about Lawndale. Gone had their moments too.
Desperate Teenage Lovedolls is tempting - but gotta go w/ I Against I.

I Against I is amazing, but yeah EVOL.

Another vote cast for Slovenly here.

arrrggghhh whos got the 10 1/2 vs i against i

I JUST DONT KNOW

chuck, what am i missing when i listen to Gone? never loved em...

some great albums on this poll:
040 Das Damen Das Damen [will probably vote triskaidecaphobe when it arises]
048 Saccharine Trust We Became Snakes
049 Meat Puppets Out My Way
059 Sonic Youth EVOL
060 Black Flag Who's Got the 10½?
062 Various Artists Lovedolls Superstar [is this the one with sonic yoof covering 'hallowed be thy name'?
065 Bad Brains I Against I

really between EVOL and 10 1//2 and I Against I for me. probably plump for EVOL in the end, though Sister is better.

EVOL! but I might vote Starpower - such a concentrated hit of SY. must've played it 1000 times in 86. at the time I also loved Kill Tunes by Leaving Trains, can't remember why.

Because it's good, maybe? It is!

It is!

Still voted EVOL tho

yeah I thought so too but now I can't remember at all what it sounds like - sloppy country-punk? gonna try streaming some of it soon & see

Actually 1986 is less of a fistfight for me than I was expecting - EVOL obv a great choice but going Bad Brains this time out.

- Lawndale, because in 86 HC had already turned into something kind of limp.
- Bad Brains count only for their first 12" (the album cover speaks truth).
- mentioning Zoogz is not fair - he's always out of competition on *any* list (in a positive way)

Apex of their celeb/LA/trash aesthetic, most successful attempt at conjuring mood over an album, actual idea of how to use Kim Gordon's vocals best - EVOL it is, not for this poll, but as SY's best.

chuck, what am i missing when i listen to Gone?

Well, if you would've asked me in 1986, I would have insisted that they were some exicting and funky new kind of harmelodic jazz-metal, an instrumental missing link between "Supernaut" and On The Corner or something. I was probably full of shit though. But since I haven't owned the album in forever, I can't say for sure one way or the other.

And yeah, Leaving Trains were kinda rootsy/vaguely Stonesy falling-apart punk, led by sometime music critic and Courtney Love husband Falling James Moreland. Don't think I ever listened to their '86 SST, but I've still got 2001's Emotional Legs around here somewhere.

"A WARNING FROM THE PROGRAMMER: EXTREME CAUTION is mandatory with all use of this psychic program material, for while - with proper use - this program information will tune the listener to sufficient destructive capability to get any job - no matter how dirty - done. If mishandled, this psychic fuel program (Program: Annihilator) may overload the Subject's receptive capacity, which could result in indiscriminate violence of an intensity the Programmer can only assume the Subject will consider undisirable. THE PROGRAMMER THEREFORE HEREBY DISCLAIMS ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE ACTIONS OF THOSE WHO WILLINGLY MAKE THE DECISION TO AVAIL THEMSELVES OF Program: Annihilator."

075 Alter-Natives Hold Your Tongue

I really liked this one at the time - skronky, possibly be-bopish, instrumental jazz-core. Not as great as Tar Babies or Universal Congress Of though.

I actually liked a Tar Babies EP in 1986 -- Respect Your Nightmares, on Bone Air Records, presumably a Wisconsin label. But iirc I thought their later SST stuff wasn't as good. (And yesterday I just realized that I've got a 45 by a different band called the Tar Babies that I used to think was the Wisconsin guys -- "Rejected At The High School Dance" on Bona Fide, feat. Greg Prevost of the Chesterfield Kings. Single was recorded in the '70s but didn't come out until '89.)

evol is top 10 alltime for me but I'm throwing my vote at the awesome + underrated we became snakes. if you told me jazz punk was a viable option in '86 I'd have told you get f'kd. that is, until I heard this album. "frankie on a pony" is an execrable lowpoint but every other song on it brings the goods. it's one of the last quintessential SST releases in that it contains all the elements that made the label's classic period great; genreless, postpunk/HC music captured in a flat, just-the-facts production with some incredible playing and a taste for boho freedom.

will prolly vote blind idiot god in the next poll, just because

SST polls are getting over 100 votes, Evol will walk this poll, will Evol be the 1st album in an ILM poll to get 100+ votes?

After EVOL I found Sister and Daydream to be bitter disappointments, total cop-outs by this band who seemed to promise such a fascinating balance on EVOL. I've softened on that a little since then, but still rate EVOL two shelves higher than any other SY I know.

However, I'm feeling an unexpected surge of affection for the 1st firehose. I listened to that thing 8 million times that year; the mere fact that it happened was so WTF and cheering.

And Bad Brains deserves votes just for the riff on 'Reignition'.

I love Respect Your Nightmares (put out by Paradise Records, the Madison punk store) but Fried Milk is better. I'm with you on Tar Babies' subsequent SST albums.

1986 sucks. I'm curious about all these albums now, but outside of Sonic Youth (or Beat Happening, as I later found out) it seemed like punk rock really hit a wall, and was so much less interesting than Run-DMC, Blue Velvet, Prince, the Smiths, etc. It wasn't until Fugazi that I started caring again. That said, I still own Out My Way and I Against I and Ragin', Full On. I wanted to believe.

No no no and no. 1986 was just when the other labels started taking over from SST. Big Black, Buttholes, Thin White Rope, Naked Raygun...

What year did Neurotica come out? That and Pussy Galore and discovering the 80's Rhino single-disc Nuggets records kinda killed off hardcore for me at that point.

xpost my impression was always that Thin White Rope was an interesting second-wave Paisley Underground band...are they in fact a key band in the 80s American Underground (along the lines of Dinosaur Jr., Buttholes, Huskers, the Pupps, Vitus, Green River, etc.)?

I consider them so, absolutely. They were far too heavy and foreboding to fit the paisley thing. Check out Moonhead and Sack Full Of Silver, or, more to the point, the live swan song The One That Got Away.

Neurotica was '87, and by then Buttholes, Big Black, and Naked Raygun were all past their primes. (Give or take maybe Big Black in fact, they all peaked before '86.) Never cared about Thin White Rope or knew anybody who did. I was still finding lots of punk-identified stuff to like in '86, as that best albums lists demonstrates, but "hardcore" had been a dead issue since Flipper in '82, and by late '87 I was getting bored with the whole schtick and opting for Debbie Gibson and Poison singles. Thought Prince's '86 album was mediocre, still do; didn't care much about the Smiths {or Blue Velvet (?)}, still don't. But in early '87 I was still liking plenty on SST -- wrote a looooong roundup of the label for the Voice that year: favorites were Dinosaur, Screaming Trees, and Blind Idiot God. Favorite punk album of '87 overall was Feedtime. But yeah, the shit was getting old.

xpost The live cover of Yoo Doo Right on the lastmentioned will clear up any uncertainties as to where TWR fit or don't fit.

xhuxk you have now met someone who cares abt them! There's a small cult of us.

it helped if you were a metal fan as well as a punk/hardcore/noiserock fan. in 1986. many people were either/or.

Yeah, by '86, Metallica and Voivod and Celtic Frost etc. were all making records at least as interesting as the Buttholes or Naked Raygun. So that was definitely another direction I was going.

Most of the punk rockers I knew were immediately hip to those three bands.

i was also a smiths fan, so i was good to go.

the beginning of the end might have been when you found yourself buying caterwaul or gut bank or eleventh dream day or sister double happiness tapes hoping they would give you the brain rush of yore. wasn't gonna happen. and then you are like oh my god what have i done with my life i own more than one fetchin bones album.

and then your best friend says hey wanna go see voice of the beehive and that petrol emotion at the club and then the 80's were over and they didn't end well.

Sister Double Happiness, ew

i wz just about to ask about them...Scott Miller reps for Freight Train...

I was wondering about them too, on Rolling Hard Rock last year:

one older guy (more from the '80s or '90s) I'm just now realizing is a pretty soulful, emotive, powerful vocalist is Gary Floyd -- who I guess was in the Dicks and Sister Double Happiness, neither of whom I ever paid much attention to at the time (so: recommendations?), but I've just now been listening to him cover sundry Spirit, Steppenwolf, Leon Russell, Clarence Carter, and Curtis Mayfield classics on this 2003 CD called Mad Dogs & San Franciscans by the weirdo avant/jam/fusion/whatever band Mushroom (who I often like otherwise too btw), and he belts great. So now I wonder whether he was ever anywhere near that good with original songs.

― xhuxk, Friday, 20 November 2009 16:28 (4 months ago)

Wondering what came out on Homestead in '86...

Wait is that the dude who the Buttholes song was named after?

also LOLOLOLOL Fetchin' Bones

'88 was when it was all over for me. scratch acid & big black broken up, swans, sonic youth, live skull, die kreuzen, butthole surfers with their best behind them. daydream nation was like a final nail in the coffin.

I paid good money for some of this wank hippy bullshit!

OK, not all of the list amounts to that BUT
even the Bad Brains had got tired by then.

Slovenly though. I had totally forgotten about Slovenly. "Riposte" was their pinnacle, the opener "The Way Untruths Are" is bliss.But, i'm guessing that could be an '87 or'88 er?

That Lovedolls comp is OK too. Nip Drivers, Flag, Red Cross.

But I'm gonna Vote Minutemen to give them their dues from past failed support.

Sonic Youth. I just don't know. I own about two thirds of their catalogue but for some reason I just cannot bring myself to vote for them in any poll whatsoever

xpost yeah, it was a couple of long years before the world was made fresh for me by finding late Talk Talk, early Boredoms, Sun City Girls, etc.

in '88 I graduated from high school, so for years I thought it was just some phase of life shit, like the music scene hadn't really changed. but no, it had.

xpost: My entire participation in hardcore followed 1982, so it wasn't a dead issue for me, but then I'm sure you're definition is narrower than mine even where our tastes don't diverge: It was basically the American all-ages punk movement to me and everyone in my age bracket/region. Zen Arcade was bedrock hardcore to me along with MDC and Die Kreuzen or whatever. ("Flipper" and their shark icon were a prominent piece of graffiti then, but I didn't hear them until many years later.) So you'd go see the Crucifucks at the tiny community center one year and then Sonic Youth at the same spot the next, or DOA, Naked Raygun, and the Replacements at the same gymnasium. It was all punk rock, but punk rock began reaching for something else with Dinosaur, the Buttholes, Soul Asylum, our own Killdozer et al, and the punk bands signing to majors. It was a label shift but also a club one and audience one and musical one. I know I'm not the only one who felt like something was lost. At least for a couple years there.

When I saw Sonic Youth in '87 it was at a club rather than an all-ages hall, and while it was cool, that was just the point: It was cool, not angry, outraged, outrageous, cathartic.

That said, I'm open to rediscovering 1986: Get me a hot-tub time machine.

86 was still awesome tho. The iron was still v hot.

agree with all of that, though I will say that the buttholes club gigs from '88 to '90 were the best shows I've ever been to

xp

xp Yeah, Die Kruezen's first album mwas definitely hardcore. And those other bands started out hardcore at least. (Never liked Millions Of Dumb Complaints, but then I never honestly gave them much of a chance.) By hardcore being dead, I meant the purist stuff (mostly) where the songs and the hair was still really short. (Also, I don't get how '86/'87 stuff is worse than Fugazi. But then, I never get what was supposed to be so great about Fugazi in the first place.)

is that the dude who the Buttholes song was named after?

yep

Wondering what came out on Homestead in '86...

78. sorry - the way it is

(And maybe some other albums on my '86 list, but I googled that one yesterday because I had no idea what the hell it was anymore. Apparently they were from Boston.)

Also, one of my favorite singles of the year (which I still own, believe it or not):

4. dinosaur - repulsion

And EPs by Uzi, Death Of Samantha, and Phantom Tollbooth I think. (Were Crime and the City Solution on Homestead that year? Squirrel Bait? Not gonna check.)

It's kinda sad to read all of these punk/hardcore/whatever died c. whenever because I wonder what y'all actually listened to post-whenever the punk music died. Which is why I find this post so intriguing:

it was a couple of long years before the world was made fresh for me by finding late Talk Talk, early Boredoms, Sun City Girls, etc.

Did not something like Soul Discharge provide y'all with a punk buzz? What about Pussy Galore (whose best album was released in 1989), Mudhoney, Tad, The Jesus Lizard, Bullet Lavolta, Pixies (prolly too commercial), Ministry (too disco?), er, Nirvana (at least Bleach)? Did new beat or techno or hip-hop provide the buzz in the early 1990s?

these punk/hardcore/whatever died c. whenever stories

When I saw Sonic Youth in '87 it was at a club rather than an all-ages hall, and while it was cool, that was just the point: It was cool, not angry, outraged, outrageous, cathartic.

Maybe because, by '87 (or a few years before), hardcore style "anger" and "outrage" seemed like an incredibly corny thing to aim for, and came off really deluded when people still did it? Or at least that's how it seemed to me at the time. (Which is why even Die Kreuzen were slowing down and exploring different textures by then, and bands like the Necros who'd once invented hardcore were sounding more like Ted Nugent, and why Husker Du etc. had been working beauty into the sound for a couple of years. I don't hear a huge leap between, say, Huskers in '83-'85 and the earliest Dinosaur and Soul Asylum records.)

Also don't get how Buttholes/Scratch Acid/Killdozer etc. weren't more cathartic than, say, MDC by then. But like I said, they got old, too.

Kevin, Soul Discharge totally renewed the early buttholes vibe, yes, by revealing a whole new level to it. Sun City Girls was like this whole byway of the SST boho punk thing which I never knew existed until around 1991. Pixies were exciting, sure. And Thinking Fellers! All the grunge stuff, and I was in Seattle 90 through 96, was just so boring to me, though. It just sounded so immediately stale after what happened in the foregoing decade. Still haven't warmed to any of it except Melvins who I wish I'd heard at the time.

October File is infinitely more interesting to me than the earlier DK stuff.

Did not something like Soul Discharge provide y'all with a punk buzz?

eh, liked hanatarash better

What about Pussy Galore (whose best album was released in 1989)

lol you meant 1987

Mudhoney

well, yeah, everybody started paying attention to seattle around 87-88. mudhoney just seemed OK after some of the crazy shit that happened in the early to mid 80s, and they peaked early and quick. great single, pretty good EP, then... one of the most boring shows I ever attended was laughing hyenas/mudhoney/sonic youth at the ritz in '89 or '90, no kidding.

Tad

I liked tad a bunch but he wasn't really doing anything revolutionary. fun fact: I interviewed him and opening act nirvana in the basement of maxwells in hoboken in 89, I was there, losing my edge, etc.

The Jesus Lizard

never liked these guys, got some kind of mental block, but everybody else seemed to love 'em

Bullet Lavolta

warmed over hard rock

Pixies (prolly too commercial)

I liked "gigantic"! never loved them the way others did on the whole tho.

Ministry (too disco?)

land of rape and honey was one of the few major label albums I dug in 88

er, Nirvana (at least Bleach)?

see bullet lavolta

Did new beat or techno or hip-hop provide the buzz in the early 1990s?

golden age of rap for me was 86 until whenever it was everybody decided they wanted to be a gangster, '89 or '90.

what started hitting for me in 88-90 was the UK psychedelic stuff (spacemen 3, loop, skullflower, mbv), there was some interesting NYC stuff still kicking around (unsane, cop shoot cop) but nothing like the wondrous period of yore

What about Pussy Galore (whose best album was released in 1989), Mudhoney, Tad, The Jesus Lizard, Bullet Lavolta, Pixies (prolly too commercial), Ministry (too disco?), er, Nirvana (at least Bleach)?

Give or take an occasional Pussy Galore EP (which right, might not have actually been their best records), this stuff basically all left me cold. Jesus Lizard were Scratch Acid but less good; Ministry were Big Black but ditto. Seeing Mudhoney live in Ann Arbor and waiting around for the show to end because I felt I'd seen the same show hundreds of times in the past few years was probably the last straw for me. And by the time Bleach came out, I wasn't even paying attention anymore.

^^^^my experience almost to a tee.

xp In retrospect, though, I'm kind of convinced that Ministry's one interesting record was the one that came out in '86 -- their transition from synth-dweebs album Twitch, which they made with Adrian Sherwood. That's the one I'd actually buy again, if I saw it cheap.

For me, Foetus was tangled into this as well, he went with all the SST and Homestead type shit in my head. Peaked at roughly the same time, too.

What about Pussy Galore (whose best album was released in 1989)

lol you meant 1987

Nope. I meant Dial M for Motherfucker. Even dlp9001 agrees. Right Now! is 2nd best (although I bet you meant Groovy Hate Fuck).

uhhhh embarrassingly i think ive only ever even heard EVOL + "bubblegum" from this list

A tie between I Against I & EVOL for me.
I voted for Bad Brains because they will probably get less votes.

Jesus Lizard were Scratch Acid but less good

Agree with everything else you said, xhuxk, but, um... agree to disagree.

I'm kind of convinced that Ministry's one interesting record was the one that came out in '86 -- their transition from synth-dweebs album Twitch, which they made with Adrian Sherwood.

This nearly makes up for Jesus Lizard/Scratch Acid thing. Refreshingly OTM.

Also have a soft spot for that first "synth-dweeb" Ministry record.

i love twitch! tried to listen to land of rape & honey the other week and couldn't get into it like i did when it came out.

"(Never liked Millions Of Dumb Complaints, but then I never honestly gave them much of a chance.)"

they were great! at least up until millions of dead christians album.

up to and including millions of dead christians album. this blood's for you. the one with the cream cover.

i listened to Mule the other day...that band was FUCKED UP...like some weirdass extra chromosome hillbilly jesus lizard

"It's kinda sad to read all of these punk/hardcore/whatever died c. whenever because I wonder what y'all actually listened to post-whenever the punk music died."

as far as loud noisy stuff goes, for me, i got excited again by death metal and grindcore. and other metal. the 90's was my own personal nadir as far as new stuff goes. i have sold almost every record i ever bought new on vinyl in the 90's. but it did start in the late 80's. i liked the first mudhoney EP but grunge did nothing for me. luckily, there was still lots of great dance music, rap, pop, etc, in the early 90's so i didn't mind the lack of good noisy stuff too much. but, jesus, i actually bought a tortoise album. and a man or astroman album. that's how bad things got.

kjb never got into metal, he likes more refined stuff like daydream nation

69, it's crazy you're from DC and you have never heard I Against I!

I voted Lawndale for the lolz and in protest of all the Husker Du fanaticism.

but, jesus, i actually bought a tortoise album.

Shhh, don't tell Pfork!

plus, a lot of stuff that i really dug in the 90's was kinda 80's holdover stuff anyway. siltbreeze and flying nun stuff reminded me of 80's stuff. or the albums i liked the most in the 90's were made by people i was a fan of in the 80's: talk talk, swans, mekons. the actual 90's stuff - rock stuff - that was actual 90's music made by 90's people that i loved was...hmmm...red house painters, unrest, godflesh, eyehategod. those were probably my favorite 90's bands when all is said and done. first two masters of reality albums. denim. but i followed denim from felt in the 80's. i still listen to that stuff. i still have a lot of CDs from the 90's.

i don't even know who i'm talking to at this point. i'm hungry.

man or astroman slayed live

No takers for the Divine Horsemen then? Middle of the Night was pretty good iirc, haven't heard the other one.

JUST GOT TICKETS FOR MEAT PUPPETS TOMORROW NITE!!!!

Another thread, but good noisy stuff from the 90's includes Dustdevils' Struggling Electric and Band of Susuans' Here Comes Success, both of which have held up a hell of a lot better than most of the crap in this poll (Zoogz aside). This thread is profoundly irritating so far.

Though it has sparked a buried memory of Gone playing a horrible set on U68 long ago. Thought I'd managed to eliminate that one... (I'm like 95% sure it was on U68, but it's been a while.)

xpost irritating how?

I considered the Divine Horsemen, but "Time Stands Still" is the the good one and it was on Enigma in '84.

fun fact - Julie Christensen of Divine Horsemen backup vocals also backed Leonard Cohen on his great late '80s stuff.

Voted Bad Brains because of "Return to Heaven"

I only brought up MDC to say Husker Du were considered hardcore bedrock as late as '84--no judgment of MDC's quality (or cathartic value) one way or the other. But on a totally separate topic, MDC were hot live as late as '88, and "Chicken Squawk" had a huge impact on me.

so pumped for meat puppets tonight :)

They will play everything way too fast and sloppy and you will have lots of fun. Curt will possibly be wearing sweat pants.

as far as loud noisy stuff goes, for me, i got excited again by death metal and grindcore.

yeah, death metal was good for a while. around '90 I was listening mostly to geto boys, monster magnet, morbid angel, cop shoot cop.

I never got excited by death metal or grindcore

really, I was all WOOO HOOOO death metal

same here, hearing Napalm Death - SCUM was like coming home again. all the fury and speed of hardcore pushed to infinity

I was all, "Didn't Die Kreuzen and Void and Prong and Beyond Posession do that stuff years ago? What's the big deal?" (Not saying I was right, necessarily, but it's not like I ever got into grindcore etc. later, either.)

all that early Earache stuff sounded way fresh to me and it was totally ridiculous. shit like Sore Throat, Spazztic Blurr, Old Lady Drivers. then you had your Carcass and Terrorizer and Morbid Angel. damn, now I have to hunt down my Grindcrusher cd...

in 86 I started borrowing metal tapes from the burnouts in class, at first for a goof then was pummeled. 'Reign In Blood' or SOD or Celtic Frost.

voted EVOL btw cuz it's so great and there's a record even better than Sister in 87

Didn't Die Kreuzen and Void and Prong and Beyond Posession do that stuff years ago?

gonna assume you meant voivod here

and yeah, as good as they were, those guys never reached the same brainscrambling hatefueled miasmas that a morbid angel or a deicide did

iow they were an important evolutionary step but not the ultimate goal

is this still the SST thread lol

xp Them too. But to me, Voivod were so heads and tails above everybody else that the only bands who reminded me of them back then were ones who seemed somehow beyond metal -- like, say, Treponem Pal. And Young Gods. And Bloodstar. Who I actually loved around '90. (Probably should've been checking out Anacrusis too, but they never came up.)

I wonder if yr stubborn rationalism kept you from fully enjoying stuff like deicide or morbid angel? die kreuzen/prong/voivod are all notably secular when it comes to imagery/lyrics. just hypothesizin here...

I mean you gotta be a special something to hear "GHOULS ATTACK THE CHURCH" and be like WOOO HOOOO me for some of that

an important evolutionary step but not the ultimate goal

Yeah, but by the late '80s I was really getting bored with the whole schtick of "Let's take this extreme ugly stuff and make it EVEN MORE UGLY AND EXTREME!!" Wasn't surprising anymore, just predictable. To me.

I don't know if anybody ever called me a "stubborn rationalist" before. I kind of like that, but I was totally raised Catholic, so I'm not sure it applies. It's not like I ever listened to Die Kreuzen's words much!

Though then again it's not like I watch horror movies much either. (More likely it's just that I was already hitting my 30s, and too old for the stuff.)

never too old for ghouls attacking the church imo

Yeah, but by the late '80s I was really getting bored with the whole schtick of "Let's take this extreme ugly stuff and make it EVEN MORE UGLY AND EXTREME!!" Wasn't surprising anymore, just predictable. To me.

OTM, it felt like a diminishing returns kind of thing for sure. That's what made Soul Discharge stand out like a traffic cone for me-- Boredoms took all those elements further yet made it seem like a new kind of beauty rooted in play.

I actually gave Soul Discharge a good review in the Voice when it came out (and reviwed some of their pre-album 7-inches for a singles column in Creem), so yeah, the Boredoms were something. But they still hit me as something that the Butthole Surfers had been doing better a half decade before. Guess I was just jaded. (Duh.)

interesting to see that i wasnt the only one who transitions pretty much straight out of this into foetus/cop shoot cop/industriostompy stuff (retrospectively at least). also its always weird for me to place this timelinewise right up against master of puppets - chronology doesnt seem to match up with memory for some reason.

has to be I Against I

never too old for ghouls attacking the church imo

words to live by!

i'm not gonna vote for it, but i have a major soft spot for Ragin' Full On

That is my #2 choice

Yeah I am not voting until I have my first listen in 20 years to Ragin'.

1986: the year SST broke? No more Husker Du Black Flag or Minutemen, replaced largely by further opening the floodgates of crud, flipping the ratio of great/good/awful new releases. I bought records by Gone, Lawndale, and October Faction in 86, each time thinking, there has to be something I'll like on this, it's on SST! (Ultimate indignity: bought October Factionalization TWICE, because the tape got chewed so I needed the LP to find out for sure that I wasn't feeling it.) If Thurston hadn't been himself so enamored of SST's glory days, I might have figured it out a bit sooner, but really I have no one but myself to blame.

Still remember right after their flat out amazing set at Metro summer 86, Meat Puppets pushing their way through the crowd desperate to get in front of people before they all left the club so they could maybe sell a few shirts & Curt explained T-shirt sales were the only way they made any money from the band, they saw nothing when records sold. Such a shame - best band in the world at that point in my opinion - they should have been government subsidized. So I was all set to vote Out My Way over EVOL until I saw the actual list. But Das Damen is an option (again, thanks to Thurston) and it changed my life way more than all the others here combined so it's gotta be that.

How the first Das Damen changed my life: I saw them play that summer, blown away, bought the record (before the SST re-release later that year) from the drummer. Then I happened to mention all that 16 years later, the next time I saw him when, small world, he was interviewing me for a part-time position & that little mention kind of sealed the deal. So I got to spend a couple days a week that year working with Lyle, who is undeniably and indescribably great. This vote is for him.

xpost dudes Ragin' all across the land today

i think i've heard, like, five of these albums. and they are the five i bought when they came out. i wasn't made of money in 1986.

I've heard 16, but that's from pooled resources of high school buds, and college radio/zine promos

Cool story, Dad A!

I bought 14 of these, and 5 of those are possibly in my top 100 worst records I've ever bought. Still pretty glad I basically bought anything that I saw that I didn't know on SST back then though, or else I probably would never have heard Slovenly.

You know what, Negativland Escape From Noise is gonna be an interesting factor in the next poll as far as 'awesome records you always forget were on SST'.

I bought 14 of these, and 5 of those are possibly in my top 100 worst records I've ever bought. Still pretty glad I basically bought anything that I saw that I didn't know on SST back then though, or else I probably would never have heard Slovenly.

Bought 14 too! Heard another 5 or so, but the real dogs somehow always got purchased. I must have felt the same as you back then & so I kept buying, but one Slovenly sure had an awful lot of Painted Willie to make up for.

Happy Nightmare Baby is one of those for me xp

my top 100 worst records I've ever bought

Would love to see this list!

There's gotta be a thread geared toward such a thing already, right?

I think I might break my brain if I ever tried to make that list.

These Immortal Souls' Get Lost (Don't Lie!) also possibly another one of those 'that was on SST?' records.

There's gotta be a thread geared toward such a thing already, right?

Sounds like a good idea to me. Though I'd probably shorten it to 10 rather than 100.

Some of that Henry Kaiser stuff also fits the 'SST?!?!' category

Btw, I'm surprised to see people repping for fIREHOSE so much on this thread. I thought that record was really really bland and disappointing at the time, especially compared to the Minutemen (wrote a Creem review of it along with Ballot Result saying so, and making dumb Styx and Kansas and Synchonicity jokes). But I haven't heard it since, so maybe I was wrong. (Definitely underrated Kansas back then.)

Some of that Henry Kaiser stuff also fits the 'SST?!?!' category

Crazy Backwards Alphabet!

With the matt groening cover!

Btw, I'm surprised to see people repping for fIREHOSE so much on this thread. I thought that record was really really bland and disappointing at the time, especially compared to the Minutemen (wrote a Creem review of it along with Ballot Result saying so, and making dumb Styx and Kansas and Synchonicity jokes). But I haven't heard it since, so maybe I was wrong. (Definitely underrated Kansas back then.)

― xhuxk, Thursday, April 8, 2010 1:20 PM (9 minutes ago)

^^^this^^^

between ciccone youth/lucky sperms/fIREHOSE, shit I'll even throw in three way tie for last as a collective stinkbomb after all-leading-up-to-and-including double nickels.

You know what, Negativland Escape From Noise is gonna be an interesting factor in the next poll as far as 'awesome records you always forget were on SST'.

This is exactly why I was dreading the 1987 version of this because how can I NOT vote for the Negs even with all the other great stuff that's gonna be on the list in 87...?

I dunno man, the first firehose album just has this naive charm, I mean i totes agree it does not nearly come within shouting distance of Dbl Nkls.

I really like that first fIREHOSE album and all, but mostly it makes me wonder what they would have been doing if D Boon wasn't gone.

Also, Voivod would have been a great fit on SST, I think. Weren't they on some label in Canada that licensed SST releases, or am I thinking of someone else?

For me Firehose was the classic example of taking what you're given because it's as good as you're gonna get. Sure it's not the best band you ever imagined, it's not your platonic ideal of punk rock, it's not leaping headfirst into uncharted territory. It's not teaching you a new language as it's created. Because it's not the Minutemen. But it's Watt and Hurley, still psychically symbiotically linked and completely on fire, still the greatest rock rhythm section ever, continuing to exist, soldiering on. Of course comparing the two bands is both unfair and unavoidable. It's not exalted without Boon but it's still great in many ways. Ed kept the fires burning.

I never got to see the Minutemen live. But I saw Firehose doing Minutemen covers & their own songs, and it hit the spot.

i don't think i've ever heard firehose! like, ever.

my fave albums of 1986 were probably evol, i against i, reign in blood, and strange times. and licensed to ill.

For no good reason that I can recall, my first date with my future wife was at a (terrible) Firehose concert. Possibly the least memorable live show I've ever seen.

Fave album from 1986 was probably Christmas' In Excelsior Dayglo, which still sounds pretty good these days...

i liked that christmas album. i had the tape. i saw it recently on vinyl for two bucks and didn't buy it. maybe i should have.

oh yeah atomizer and just keep eating too. those were big faves. and holy money. and the queen is dead. and master of puppets. and the colour of spring.

and throwing muses debut. 1986 was a very good year.

and express. and the good earth. and filigree and shadow. and brotherhood.

interesting thread, I fall right into Edward and Jon Lewis's timeframe for the most part (was 18 in '84 and a hardcore kid to the hilt). Die Kreuzen ruled in Indiana then but a couple of years later their biggest fans were also listening to Celtic Frost. I went into noise and never really got the metal bug. So by '87-88 I was checking out everything on RRRecords, Japanese stuff, and the whole Nurse With Wound axis. Laughing Hyenas, Firehose, and the Feelies were big local draws in clubs. Dino Jr was pretty huge as well.

by 90 or 91 Thinking Fellers were definitely on the radar, then came Ajax mailorder and Xpressway and the whole 90's indie 7" flood.

I saw SY on the EVOL tour in the summer of this poll and it was way up there in all time best.

Yeah, that summer SY tour! They were still trying to figure out how to present themselves, how to transition from being a constant noise-source (adding a barrage of noise or a played tape deck between songs as segue) to something more like a band with tunes. I think the Bad Moon Rising & older songs got more of the noise segue treatment, most of EVOL got the latter. At Metro they looked like they were having a real argument about whether to encore or not (JAMC influence maybe?), Lee stormed off the stage. But they came back. They had things pretty well ironed out by the end of the year though. Dinosaur/Firehose/Sonic Youth, $5 in the dining commons, nice. This thread is bringing back so much noise and nostalgia!

relating old dudes to indie rock. i was going to post my list when people were ragging on 86 yesterday so i'll add Victorialand and Rembrandt Pussyhorse and Greed and Dry Lungs and Gods Favorite Dog and...

i was just Ragin' and rememberin' the life-altering Firehose/(Wurm or DC3)/Always August show at the Apocalypse Monster Club, a huge storage space/warehouse/punk club so the vans were parked inside. we got there wicked early and totally starstruck talked to fIREHOSE and gave Mike Watt our tape and t-shirt (which he wore for the show!). Always August were like the first real hippies I'd seen up close and they played fucking Santana between bands. My band tried to 'jam' for the first time soon after and I decided to grow out my hair...

1986: Big Shot Chronicles, Made To Be Broken, All Night Lotus Party got played to death. In Excelsior Dayglo too! Tom Waits doing Franks Wild Years at the Steppenwolf. "It was a very good year ..."

The Apocalypse Monster Club!

I just looked to see if I had a flier from that firehose show, but I don't. I wonder if I was there. I remember talking to Mike Watt outside, and it feels like it was at the AMC, but it could have been with the minutemen at the Lawndale.

Made me look at my old fliers from 84-87. D.O.A. and Beyond Possesion, Corrosion of Conformity, 7 Seconds with Verbal Assault and Mellow Cats, all at the AMC. I remember seeing MDC there and some kid cracked his head and had seizure or something. I saw Black Flag at Cardi's in that time frame. Henry Rollins came out to the edge of the stage and talked to us with his long hair and black running shorts.

Hardcore all the time in those days. Grunge gradually took over.

Houston HxCx represent! Cardi's...that was the name of that place, i was at that show too, Painted Willie opened iirc. my first hardcore night was Dead Kennedys/Scratch Acid/Culturcide at cardi's then onto the Cabaret Voltaire for some local noise. yeah, Lawndale, Pik'n'Pak, The Axiom, Butthole Surfers at the Maceba Theater melting the best minds of my generation....I still have a bunch of my Funhouse Show tapes. good fuckin times, bro.

I loved fuckin Christmas! I haven't heard In Excelsior Dayglo in decades... it never made it to CD iirc.

Fish eye sandwich = worst thing in the world.

yeah, try finding a copy of ultra prophets of thee psykick revolution online!

<3 this song. 12" single had a cover of "ring my bell" on the b-side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzn1gw0ex4Y

for the in excelsior dayglo fans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW55n1JLBUQ

ok, so maybe you guys know wtf was up with the Psychic TV parody on Ultra Prophets cover/concept. it always struck me as odd since it's not like Gen&crew were even well known enough to goof on, esp. in the US (i dunno, maybe they were huge in Boston with Sleep Chamber and all).

and I totally forgot they became Combustible Edison

There used to be a couple of really nice live Christmas clips on youtube, but they seem to have vanished. I should have copied them when I had the chance.

I have Ultraprophets on CD luckily. Yeah the album concept was impenetrable to me, but it resulted in Liz being sort of naked on the inner booklet so I approve.

otm

back to SST...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE8d6yUpDG0&feature=related

Ah, just discovered who the guy who reviewed Excelsior in Spin back in '86 was (he called it, like, the best album ever)...Don Howland of Great Plains, Gibson Brothers, etc. Thanks Don!

Oh, sorry SST. Back to voting for Zoogz...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-5XRdBDA-w

I remember that review! Ha Great Plains-- THEIR album got stellar reviews from OPtion, in turn.

Wait who are you, dlp9001?

thank you ILM, for making me get out In Excelsior Dayglo on this rainy day. Tommy The Truck!

Who will j0hn punch this poll?

Is there a connection between Zoogz Rift & Bob Mould both being involved in pro wrestling? Or is did two SST weirdos just naturally gravitate to the WWF separately?

I think it was separate. I don't know about Zoogz, but Mould was an AWA fan in the '80s (he's wearing a Rage in the Cage long-sleeve on the cover of the Eight Miles High/Makes No Sense At All EP). Then in the very late '90s he joined WCW as a writer during that company's worst ever creative period. If you think wrestling's ridiculous enough already...

j0hn won't punch any of you unless and until he can punch all of you

a punch fap

Minnesota loved its AWA Wrestling, Bob was no different

Like all red blooded Minnesotans, Mould wanted Bobby 'The Brain' Heenan to die in a fire.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

UnAutomatic thread bump

It's weird, being a Brit I never think of Sonic Youth as being an SST band as they were on Blast First over here. Same way I never think of Big Black or the Butthole Surfers as being Touch & Go bands.

Albums on this list I once owned : 22 (approx, can't really remember which exact Zoogz Rift albums I bought)
Albums on this list I still own : 1 (fIREHOSE, who get the vote by default)

sonic youth are one of my favorite bands and were hugely important to me at the time, but i'm still gonna pick i against i over evol

evol's fascinating, but it tends to bum me out and/or irritate me more often than not. and while i Against i is far from perfect, I'm basically always in the mood for it. up there with sister, damaged, happy nightmare baby, born too late, you're living all over me, meat pups II, new day rising and double nickels in my list of things for which I owe SST (& Ginn/Dukowski) an eternal debt.

I'm really hoping EVOL gets 100+ votes...

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it did, although a lot of people have said they're voting Bad Brains (maybe because they know everyone else will vote Evol). I cant wait to see the results to see how close it is.

I would be surprised if EVOL gets over 50.

KIRA'S GOT THE 10.5

don't know most of these. went with EVOL

i get the feeling that sums this poll up

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

no 100 vote winner

High placement for '10 1/2' probly the surprise of this thread for me.

Five votes for Slovenly! For anyone who hasn't heard it, and I'm sure there's a lot, it's really worth your time if you can find it.

And don't let all those zero votes fool you, there's some prime wheat among that chaff.

What do you recommend?

The Gone records get a bad rap around here but Ginn's done much worse. Angst's Mending Wall is the best of theirs I've heard; it's not as folky as their other stuff to my ears. The Alter-Natives' Hold Your Tongue is good hyperactive jazz rock. And The Divine Horsemen are also worth a listen, but Chris D's first/main band The Flesh Eaters were better.

080 Sonic Youth Starpower 4

ok 4 jokers love the single that is 2/3rds songs on the album (3/3rds if you count the reissue) more than the album? fuck outta here.

maybe they only like the 1 track?

Favourite SST Release of... 1987

4 jokers love the single that is 2/3rds songs on the album (3/3rds if you count the reissue) more than the album? fuck outta here.

sometimes less is more

Evol is the best SY album though

^thank you

no worries