Why does black people never want to rock?

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Don't they ever get bored with rap and feel the need to rock for a bit instead? Isn't it a human need to rock once in a while?

And are there any black indie fans?

Indieholic Anonymous, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

I hope this doesn't seem racist, it's just fascinating.

Indieholic Anonymous, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

must... control... fist of death...

Dan Perry, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

indie= coldplay nowdays.

indie= not rock.

wynton marsalis bastard son, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Like someone above said, indie ain't rock!

Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains! Bad Brains!

Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

im stabbing myself in the face right now

chaki, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

You need to find out who MICK COLLINS is.

http://gygax.pitas.com, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

I guess it did seem rascist...

Indieholic Anonymous, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

"Who said a funk band can't play rock music?"

chewshabdoo, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

personally i know two awesome black rock guys:
the guy in the dears and the bass player from lae-tsue (awesome mtl punk band) not mention the singer from the bell rays.
as well as a few other locals. if i was black i'd 100% hip hop non stop.

ddd, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

now is a good a time as any to put a link for the 2nd show (only one with tix remaining) for Arthur Lee with Love at the Bowery Ballroom

http://www.ticketweb.com/user/? region=nyc&query=schedule&venue=bowery&next=351827

Aug. 11

Steve K, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Bodycount?

chewshabdoo, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Onyx + Anthrax = rock

also, Onyx + Anthrax = Onthryx

Doug Pinnick from King's X is black. Kind of. He's also gay, believe it or not. That's sorta why they stopped being a "christian" band. Ok, I'll stop talking about King's X now.

Jason Clark of Pretty Girls Make Graves is black. He rocks.

Brad Haywood, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

what gygax said. mick collins is the rockingest man, whatever race or color or creed, in the world.

also: how can the bad brains, or soul brains as they call themselves now, rock when that cant even show up to play?

jack cole, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

This cad needs a cordial introduction to Eugene of Oxbow.

Dare, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

this is fuckin ridiculous!

black people invented rock music along with everyone else good dontcha know (african song and tribal rhythms were carried by imported slaves, developed over time from chain gangs and ghettos to create delta blues and jazz, reggae, soul etc. - giving us Berry, Lee Hooker, Waters, Gaye, Hendrix, Perry yadda yadda yadda - and inspiring every single white rock band ever esp. the ones that influence today's white rock acts (Stones, Velvets, Zep etc.)

i'm sure you all know this - but it is interesting to see why rock n' roll music is so devoid of successful black artists. perhaps racism in the music industry and the resulting dominance of white male bands alienated black peoples from this form of music back in the 60s. 'they stole the soul' perhaps, but there are still pioneers like reggae/punk dj Don Letts who constantly big up the White Stripes and the Sex Pistols.

for what its worth (fuck all) i notice a host of rock bands over the years with black drummers (ocean colour scene, campag velocet, papa roach, p.o.d...but does anyone remember Living Colour?)

, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

P.O.D. has a black bassist Sevendust has a black singer Hootie and the Blowfish had a ... just kidding

I remember Living Colour. Real good band, as far as I'm concerned. All of their albums, to be honest. But naw, no one remembers them. They even tried a comeback tour this year (or late last year). Miserable failure. I don't think they were wearing spandex or wetsuits, though, which may have been the problem.

Brad Haywood, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

What was the really big one (well bigish) that Living Colour had?

Chewshabadoo, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

bad brains are bad brains again and they show up.

chaki, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Living Colour's big songs were "Cult Of Personality", "Glamor Boys", "Type" and "Love Rears Its Ugly Head".

Dan Perry, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

I've heard/read that slaves were more or less prevented from drumming in the North, while in South America and the Carribean (sp?duh) they were able to keeping those traditions alive. I wonder how much of African rhythm was in fact inherited in rock and roll, not that I doubt the importance of African-Americans in its roots and development. "Latin" music has a lot more traditional African rhythmic elements in it than rock and roll. (This is in response to something blueski said.)

DeRayMi, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

BellRays BellRays BellRays! (this also answers "Why does women people never want to rock")

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

african americans did not invent rock and roll -- they had a major part in its development. rock and roll is a melting pot of poor people, white and black.

jack cole, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

no one's mentioned PHIL FUCKING LINNOT of Thin Lizzy. But the list of black rock musicians would be near endless... the real question is why isn't "rock" marketed to black people, and why the continual ghetto-ization of genres into "this music is for black people" and "this music is for white people" still exists. It's very blatant. Go to any record store - 99% of the black artists are in "r&b/hip hop" and 99% of the white artists are in "rock". Total bullshit - the division is an artificial one perpetuated by racist marketing.

I'm surprised, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Cee-Lo in Jim Morrison appreciation shocker

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

My friends from NB once drunkenly awed that the Mean Red Spiders had in their band "the black Jimmy Hendrix". Quite possibly the funniest thing ever said by a frenchmen.
Thats not really an answer but seemed like a good time to point that story out.

Mr Noodles, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

yeah noodles you told me that but i had forgotten. It's quite appropriate to pint it out.

Julio Desouza, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Chuck Berry. He was there at the outset, man.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

I think I probably mentioned it on here a few times too, its just such a classic little thing for someone to blurt out.

Mr Noodles, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

You need to find out who MICK COLLINS is.
damn right.

di, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

How about Lenny kravitz??

zoo, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

I always wonder why Poly Styrene's name so rarely comes up in discussions like this...

Douglas, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

poly styrene is west indian african or something like that? i can never remember. to me she is just cool -- at least with the x ray spex

Jack Cole, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

However idiotic the original question is, it might be good to have these stereotypes exposed to daylight every so often to remind ourselves how much cotton wool some people live in. I'm forever hearing passed-off comments like "Black music is all about the rhythm and groove, not necessarily clever lyrics, that's indie music." Right, what about hip-hop? "Oh...OK well it's still about the groove, not the chords or arrangement etc." Really? Ever heard of 'jazz'? "Yeah, but that's not really 'guitar music', I'm speaking of punk and metal and stuff." Right, like Berry, Hendrix, Clinton, [Slash even!] never...fuck it, where does one begin. (This is based on an actual conversation I had with somebody who claimed to be into 'soul music' who also asked me, "Does James Brown actually have any musical talent or does he just grunt alot and hire good bands?")

dave q, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Also, I have this theory that African-Americans are perhaps underrepresented in the 'rock' fields because they're OVER it. Been there, done that. Hendrix invented 'metal', then moved onto other things, although it was enough to keep the white kids interested to this day. Perhaps the same goes for post-rock bands who are fighting over the last scraps from Coltrane's or Coleman's garbage cans, so to speak?

dave q, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

i was gonna say kind of what dave q said - i mean hip hop is kind of like rock, anyway, maybe a sort of improvement, maybe just a different version. It's all sampled from and based on the same old principles - and i would add, a big difference is you don't need so many instruments and years of learning - sure sex pistols etc said 'diy' but steve jones could play, they could all play - i think that maybe very poor people would always come up with different kinds of music to rich people, and don't forget that it's really easy to confuse colour with class because people of certain ethnicities are so economically fucked over and used, - in new zealand people characterise pacific islanders as acting in certain ways and it's obvious that what they're really thinking of is the way that poor people act. But you know, maybe i'm wrong - that makes it sound as if hip hop is an outcome of poverty, and as if it's impoverished, perhaps it's just a different way.

maryann, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I said, Elvis Presley ain't got no soul Chuck Berry is rock and roll You may dig on the Rolling Stones But they ain't come up with that style on they own

Said, Kenny G ain't got no SOULLLL John Coltrane is rock and roll You may dig on the Rolling Stones but they could never ever rock like Nina Simone

Bham, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

A series of questions like these, introduced with the phrase "Destroy My Preconceptions", could actually be entertaining and educating. Who's up fer it?

Colin Meeder, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I may be completely ignorant here, but I've always assumed that there was a Black guy in Orange Juice. What about ESG?

What about West Asians in indiepop/rock? Cornershop and Papas Fritas?

marianna, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Hendrix invented 'metal'

When?

And James Watt invented the mobile phone.

Siegbran Hetteson, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Zeke Manyika was the drummer in Orange Juice.

I notice nobody's mentioned Rage Against the Machine - love em or loathe em, pretty important. Skunk Anansie, Audioweb - the dubby end of indie. Or Luke Sutherland, king of tortured Scots masculinity. Or Debbie Smith of Echobelly, proving the point that BritPop wasn't all mockernee geezers and lisping girlfriends of the above.

Lisa, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

lando calrissian had a solo recording career and he rocked like fuck

bob snoom, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Where are "the black Strokes" though?

Indieholic Anonymous, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Why should there be a "black Strokes?" Is there some sort of band- segregation policy now that I'm unaware of? (If so can I be in the "black My Bloody Valentine?")

No, it sounds like you're just mystified as to why black people by and large aren't big on indie. I don't think this is a hugely pressing question, or any more pressing than why Puerto Ricans aren't huge on country or Pakistanis aren't necessarily big on Italian opera. It only becomes problematic if you (a) for some reason think of punk-lineage indie rock as "better" or "smarter" than everything else, then (b) suspect that everyone else in the world and non-white races in particular are "lesser" or "dumber" for not liking it, then (c) get all fretty and anxious about this conclusion. Just wipe the (a) part from your thinking, and everything's fine, see?

nabisco, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

great band name! up there with The Harlem Beatles!

bham that is one stupid motherfucking song you just quoted. i agree with Maryann that hip hop is really just rock n roll. "Rt 66", "Sweet Little 16", "Carol" are all at hiphop/jungle tempo.

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

hiphop/jungle tempo

eh? how are hip hop and jungle the same tempo?

gareth, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

you may be diggin on Jack Johnson / but he could never rock like Mick ROnson

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I don't think less of them for not liking it, I'm just curious as to why I never see any black people at concerts or hear of any black indie fans. True, I don't see many Pakistan inides either. It would be fun seeing a Pakistan Pavement fan though! And most genres have crossovers of their fan base demographic. Many white people listen to rap etc.

Indieholic Anonymous, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

(hip hop tempo) = .5(jungle tempo) (hip hop is a little faster than this usually but Timbaland has slowed the pace down to approx. the above equation) (okay .5 isn't the same but it WORKS i.e. "jump-up" jungle)

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

It would be fun seeing a Pakistan Pavement fan though!

I'm just going to stare at this phrase for a nice long time, in the hopes that it will somehow disappear with my withering glance.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

If someone stole a piece of gum from you, and chewed it and chewed it for 50 years until every little bit of flavor had been extracted from it, would you still want to steal it back?

Nick A., Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

This gets my vote as the most ridiculously proposed thread ever. Which is saying a lot, considering this is ILM.

hstencil, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Why do I get the feeling that Indieholic's use of the word "Pakistan" to describe those of south Asian extraction is a crude substitute for the word he would use in normal conversation: 'Paki'?

Jesus, what a question! Christ, what a fuckwit!

Venga, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I know far too many paki Pavement fans (1 or 2, I think).

Kris, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I mentioned Pakistan because nabisco did in his example a few posts ahead. Don't project racism on me. Maybe I should have said Taliban instead, it was just a funny thought to me. A taliban Pavement fan.

Indieholic Anonymous, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

venga> And I could call you names too but that's just a bit childish isn't it?

Indieholic Anonymous, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I agree, let's obliterate those fucking ragheads.

Kris, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

>>> [Nabisco:] It only becomes problematic if you (a) for some reason think of punk-lineage indie rock as "better" or "smarter" than everything else, then (b) suspect that everyone else in the world and non-white races in particular are "lesser" or "dumber" for not liking it

Surely no-one has said anything like this? It sounds rather like an inflammatory position you've set up to attack. (Hey, an inflammatory straw man: that's apt.) I suppose it could be, though, that I've not read the thread carefully enough and have missed the bit where someone did say it.

the pinefox, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

What I think I think: music has no colour, save red, orange, yellow, blue, green, pink, mauve, turqoise, gold, ochre, lemon, lilac, cherry...

the pinefox, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

The Taliban wasn't an ethnic group, but a designation meaning "student" (or more literally, "group of students") given to the followers of Mullah Omar. Goddamn, this Indieholic Anonymous person is either the biggest idiot that has ever lived or a really unfunny joke.

hstencil, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

"I said, Elvis Presley ain't got no soul Chuck Berry is rock and roll You may dig on the Rolling Stones But they ain't come up with that style on they own Said, Kenny G ain't got no SOULLLL John Coltrane is rock and roll You may dig on the Rolling Stones but they could never ever rock like Nina Simone"

..oh, yeah. Mos Def. He doesn't really understand rock, does he? That song never fails to amuse and irritate me, especially since in the course of his telling us that what we like is no good he fails, himself, to rock at all. The thought of the Rolling Stones attempting to rock like...Nina Simone (give me a break, even I could find a more sensible name that rhymed) is repugnant to me. That's what he'd LIKE? Same goes for his lame arena-rock band (saw 'em, hated 'em). And Living Colour, undermixed guitar, bass and drums, overmixed Pompous Ass vocalist. Saw em THREE times, never liked 'em once (they were always openers, and deservedly so). Had a few good studio tracks. Body Count? Got better during their stay on earth, nearly approached Biohazardish-bare-competence. Funkadelic? Yup, rocked. Didn't get all uppity about it, either (none of that "look, we can rock too! In fact, we're better than you! Nyah, nyah!")Bad Brains? ROCKED effortlessly and proudlike. Does anyone here remember a Philadelphia band called Pure Hell? Had kind of a Bad Brains hype going on but I never did hear them. I think the original post here wasn't THAT bad - the question is, to me, why are so few ALL-black rock bands? Sure, there are great African-American rock artists scattered hither & yon, but overall, they seem not to embrace the rock-BAND format. Is it suspicion of a white format? Starmaking machinery that tells them only one member must be the star? I know plenty of musically openminded black folks, but they don't listen to rock. Everything else is fair game, it seems.

Matt Riedl (veal), Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

heh. the strokes were introduced to me a year ago as "the white camp lo".

marek, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Did I say it was an ethnic group? The discussion changed a bit from it's original topic in you case you missed it. But I guess you got a bit myopic there in all your offended rage.

Indieholic Anonymous, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Oh fuck off, clueless.

hstencil, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Fuck you.

Indieholic Anonymous, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Paki.

Indieholic Anonymous, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

hahahaha. That's the only intentionally funny thing you've written all day!

hstencil, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

i actually know a french-canadian-paki pavement fan.

and back to the original point of blacks that rock, there's also danko jones.

dyson, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

"It would be fun seeing a Pakistan Pavement fan though". funny you should say it, but i have a friend who is British and muslim, of Indian descent. he dragged me to many many pavement, urusei yatsura etc gigs. he also likes capn jack, don cabellero, plaid and BoC.

ambrose, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

the "black" strokes = n*e*r*d

fields of salmon, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

yes, but what about the black white stripes?

Sterling Clover, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

'why does black people never want to do [thing that mostly middle to upper-middle class white people do]?': gee golly I was just wondering since I never saw them doing it

Josh, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

And just because the white artists that immediately followed got more famous doesn't mean that rock and roll didn't come directly out of black music going on at the time (r&b, various blues, etc.), people saying otherwise makes me kind of uncomfortable.

Jordan, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

yes, but what about the black white stripes?

Kris, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

OK time to end this idiocy one and for all!

Last night in Camden, I saw a) black guy w/ Slipknot t-shirt, b) noisy post-punk band w/ 2 black members, c)neo-hardcore with Asian drummer, d)2nd neo- hardcore band all of whose fans appeared to be black teenage girls, e) old acquaintance of mine (black guy) demanding the return of the bass gtr I borrowed, as he needed it to practice with HIS post-punk unit.

dave q, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

So whose got a friend belonging to the smallest ethnic minority thats a Pavement fan then?

Mr Noodles, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Ah Camden - melting pot of the Aga set.

Ethnic minority Pavement fan contest - who can beat Mauritius?

Lisa, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

lando calrissian had a solo recording career and he rocked like fuck
I sure hope you mean Billy Dee Williams and not some freako who THINKS he really IS Lando Calrissian.

Lord Custos III, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Are you kidding, Lord Custos? I really fucking hope it's the freak!

Ned Raggett, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

this is my favorite ned post ever

Josh, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Pinefox -- "Surely no-one has said anything like this?"

No, no, Pinefox, all I meant was something like ... various groups of people and "communities" have various musical lineages, sometimes with some overlap, sometimes not. We're typically unsurprised by this; it's perfectly natural to us that a 60-year-old Alabama black woman might listen to gospel, or that a 50-year-old stockbroker in New York might like the Rolling Stones. But a lot of rock listeners -- indie listeners, in particular -- actively fret about about black people in particular not being as involved in the indie scene. My question was: why do they fret about that, and not, say, the fact that just as few (or fewer) black people are interested in Christian country? And I know that when I fretted about not seeing a lot of other black indie fans, it was because I still thought of indie as somehow better than and smarter than and "above" other musics -- which results in this sense of "disappointment" in everyone else for not getting that. As soon as I was old enough to realize that that "better" was not only subjective but culturally conditioned, this ceased to be an issue.

nabisco, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Are you kidding, Lord Custos? I really fucking hope it's the freak!
I am now going to suffer a weekend of extreme difficulty trying to explain why I keep grinning and bursting into laughter for no apparent reason...

Ray M, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Hurrah for the spread of joy.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Begone Foul Boldface!
Are you kidding, Lord Custos? I really fucking hope it's the freak!
Just think, if Star Wars had come out in the early 60s, all the major cast members would be obliged to make vanity records, y'know the way the entire cast of Bonanza, or both Nimoy and (shudder...) Shatner did.
Imagine if Mark Hammill had a intense thang for soul music.
"Use the Funk, Luke! Feel the Funk Flowing Through You!"

Lord Custos III, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

But a lot of rock listeners -- indie listeners, in particular -- actively fret about about black people in particular not being as involved in the indie scene. My question was: why do they fret about that, and not, say, the fact that just as few (or fewer) black people are interested in Christian country?

Isn't it natural to concern yourself with your own scene rather than one you have no interest in or knowledge of? Maybe Christian country fans do worry about the lack of blacks in their scene? (Assuming even that there is such a lack; I wouldn't know.)

nickn, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I think it's more so with indie, though, insofar as indie tends to perceive itself more as a conceptual and aesthetic approach rather than a musical "tradition" with a particular culture attached to it. In other words, few of today's indie fans were "raised" indie; they semi-electively picked it up at some point. So people don't put a lot of analysis into the racial crossover of music that has a clear racially-related history behind it -- but they do this quite a bit more with indie, which is perceived to be not an inherited "tradition" but an opt-in artistic approach. Whereas it is in fact, in many ways, still an inherited musical tradition, only one that operates slightly less vertically through generations and slightly more horizontally across peer groups usually united by a largely-common background of race, class, education level, etc.

(Another way of putting that last bit is something like this: when you were 13 and you and your friends were discovering and "turning one another onto" the Pixies or whomever, how many black friends were you swapping those tapes with?)

nabisco, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Myself as example: I was still part of that viral-indie peer-group by virtue of being equally middle-class and being in the same courses at school and sharing a common suburbanish youth, thus I got slipped cruddy copies of Surfer Rosa and The Queen is Dead at the appropriate moments. Had I been attending a mostly-black school on the south side of Chicago, chances are I'd have been slipped a ganked-up NWA tape-dub instead -- and where would I bother hearing indie?

Which, incidentally, describes the other source of fretting over the racial crossover of hip-hop, apart from the top-level issue of mainstream America having to sort out its images of and relationships with black people: note that hip-hop was, up until its big pop crossover, equally horizontal, equally reliant upon a peer to "introduce" you to it. Hip-hop has gradually conquered that and made itself pop, in this reciprocal circle of white kids buying more and more of it. Indie rejects conquering it, and thus can't really make inroads beyond the "peers" of current indie listeners. The only way it will pick up bigger black listenership in the US is as white kids start hanging out more with black kids -- and not just the white kids who are already disposed to pick up on the black musical samizdat, as opposed to the other way around.

nabisco, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Hence the Pakistani Pavement fan: plenty upon plenty of middle-class immigrant kids in the US are all over indie, especially as the indie prizing of "difference" naturally resonates with the ethnically "different" kid. (Ho ho there's me.)

nabisco, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Nabisco, I hope this doesn't bruise too many egos, but I have to say you may be the only regular contributor here whose writing (for reasons of content, primarily) I might be willing to pay to read.

DeRayMi, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Hardly bruising -- it's THE TRUTH. :-)

Ned Raggett, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Just think, if Star Wars had come out in the early 60s, all the major cast members would be obliged to make vanity records
No, but because it came out in the late 70's, they ended up making a variety TV special, which was MUCH MUCH WORSE. BEA ARTHUR! GAK!

Sean Carruthers, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Hey, I saw it when it screened. Then again I was 7.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

When I was 13 Pixies barely existed: certainly they didn't exist on my radar. When I was 14 I liked Go West. I still do.

the pinefox, Saturday, 27 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Would the Black White Stripes dress in the AC Milan kit?

I haven't made a post in five days, and that's the best I could come up with for my comeback. Lame....

Dom Passantino, Saturday, 27 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Not exactly contributing greatly to the argument, such as it is, but how has a thread about whether black people rock (ferfucksake) gone on so long with no one mentioning Little Richard?

Martin Skidmore, Saturday, 27 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

No, but because it came out in the late 70's, they ended up making a variety TV special, which was MUCH MUCH WORSE. BEA ARTHUR! GAK!
Yeah, but they only broadcast a bad TV special for an hour.
Bad Vinyl is eternal.

Lord Custos III, Saturday, 27 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

...unless someone recorded it and distributed around on the INTERNET. I have a copy of this somewhere.

Sean Carruthers, Saturday, 27 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Hence the Pakistani Pavement fan: plenty upon plenty of middle-class immigrant kids in the US are all over indie, especially as the indie prizing of "difference" naturally resonates with the ethnically "different" kid. (Ho ho there's me.)

whoa whoa whoa there! generalization city!

geeta, Sunday, 28 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

my parents are Indian and even though i listen to some indie even then i wouldn't touch pavement w/a fucking bargepole OK.

Julio Desouza, Sunday, 28 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Aww sooooo close... I'm Indian and I('ve) like(d) Pavement - damn, if only I was Pakistani! then wouldn't Indieholic Anonymous have a revelation!!!it would be like losing his dummy-virginity for all time!

but I guess I could still be called a Paki, and um:

"whoa whoa whoa there! generalization city!" - agreed. a rather gargantuan generalization, right?

V, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I wasn't generalizing with that comment, despite the misused modifier: only pointing out that the biggest non-white segment of indie kids tends to be first- or second-generation children of immigrants, particularly Asian (both East and South). (I did not, in fact, actually mean "immigrants.") (Neither did I mean that large proportions of children-of-immigrants like indie, but rather that of indie fans who aren't white, most are etc.)

Unless you meant I was generalizing about the ethnic difference part, in which case I'm not so much asserting that as suggesting it. I know it's partly true for me: growing up with this sense of "difference" being hung around you can surely give you a little nudge toward a musical genre that bills itself as the "different" one.

nabisco, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

well i dont know about geeta but yeah i, at least, meant the difference part you mentioned. i've never even given it a moment's attention - do ethnically different kids like "different" music? - despite having grown up in a pretty conservative, whitebread part of the US. from my own experience, at least, most Asian kids (even east asians) i've known have been really into hip-hop, and the most mainstream variants of it at that. it's inspired more than a few discussions amongst some of my friends and I: do indian/pakistani kids pretend to be black in culture and musical tastes since its the closest thing (cultural group) they can identify with in the mass media? but that's just a majority i'm speaking of...of course there are people who listen to everything (except, admittedly, i have yet to meet a fellow south asian who's even marginally into, er, country)

all this begs me to ask, nabisco: what ethnicity are you? not that it's important

V, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Err Ethiopian.

nabisco, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

got'cha

V, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Die thread, die.
die die
worms
eating
your eyes.

NU-ILM, its the new crack.

Mr Noodles, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

is that your michael gira impression noodles?

Julio Desouza, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

mostly its just my Bruce McDonald impersonation and a random conversation snip from the cubicle farm twisted for my own needs.

Mr noodles, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

that has definetely cleared things up!

Julio Desouza, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

it wont die if you keep bumping it

just a friendly tip, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

we stopped it until you bumped it again. Thanks!

Julio Desouza, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

KITH reference. They were exploring the wonderful benefits of Terriers in the form of a song.
Just noticed a distinct lack of Jack Russel Terriers in the video, maybe Jack Russels don't wanna rawk as hard as other terriers.

Mr Noodles, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Ahhh, Bruce McCULLOCH you mean, then? Bruce McDonald is zee film maker!

Sean Carruthers, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

It would be fun seeing a Pakistan Pavement fan though!

I hear Pervez Musharraf's a big fan. He hated "Terror Twilight", but then, didn't everyone?

Dom Passantino, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

McCULLOCH
Well is my face red or what.
Reason #1 why I shouldnt be posting from work without fully disengaging my mind from it to concentrate.

Mr Noodles, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

6 months pass...
Well as far as black people not playing rock, maybe you didn't notice that black people started rock. (check out Rocket 88 by Jackie Brenston) See they start something, and then we white boys take it over and they move on and start something new. Rock? originally black music, funk? black. Disco, that one too... Jazz, blues, reggae... hell even country has roots in the blues. the list goes on. And rap? oh don't worry, in a few years black artist will decide to move on and create a new music style, then it'll be all Eminem and Vanilla Ice.

Dan Myers, Friday, 31 January 2003 00:27 (11 years ago) Permalink

Had I been attending a mostly-black school on the south side of Chicago, chances are I'd have been slipped a ganked-up NWA tape-dub instead -- and where would I bother hearing indie?

Ha! I was on the N. Side and heard Straight Outta Compton long before the Pixies or Pavement etc. But somehow I ended, lo these many years down the road, posting about Maurice Chevalier on ILX.

This post is not intended to reinforce anyone's determinism, racial or otherwise.

Amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 31 January 2003 00:46 (11 years ago) Permalink

Mike Gira is a pavement fan?

gaitataxia, Friday, 31 January 2003 01:02 (11 years ago) Permalink


Man Bad Brains sucks now.

Jonathan Williams (ex machina), Friday, 31 January 2003 01:10 (11 years ago) Permalink

Y'all missing the point - you see people of all colors
at hip-hop shows; in fact, I once heard a complaint that
Jurassic 5 crowds were all young whites and asians.

Why isn't it reciprocal? Why don't black fans pack
Creed shows, for example? Actually, I've never seen a
Creed crowd, but I'm pretty sure that while white
audiences like black music (hip-hop) it's not really
reciprocal. Perhaps I'm wrong tho.

Squirl_Police, Friday, 31 January 2003 03:16 (11 years ago) Permalink

Grrrr....This is simultaneously one of the most interesting and frustrating threads I've ever read! I'm a middle-class black guy. My parents were born in the Carribean, I was raised in the 'burbs of Toronto and I fucking love Pavement. Even "Terror Twilight" - yeah, I said it.

During highschool and Uni my walls were (and still are) plastered with pictures of The Pixies, Jane's Addiction, Sonic Youth, Fugazi, Bad Brains, Pavement, GBV, NWA, Tribe Called Quest and Public Enemy. It's just music!! Enough with the categories! I have friends from all different backgrounds who get down to all different kinds of tunes. What does hearing indie-rock first have to do with being able to appreciate hip-hop later, or vice-versa?

I've been to rock shows where none of the friends I was with were white and I've been to hip-hop shows where they all were. I thought that I'd heard the last of this crap in high school.

If "Indieholic Anonymous" doubts that black people can rock then I should probably invite him to come to the studio sometime when I'm jamming with some friends. We'll blow his stupid ass through the back wall.

J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Friday, 31 January 2003 08:17 (11 years ago) Permalink

Yeah J-Rock!!!!!

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 31 January 2003 14:07 (11 years ago) Permalink

Wow, this is an interesting and slightly infuriating thread if I've ever seen one...if it's only "infuriating" because of this...

A thread with "black people" and "rock" in the title, and absolutely no mention whatsoevah of THE 'BONE!?! Wow.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 31 January 2003 14:19 (11 years ago) Permalink

No one mentioned Living Colour or Prince, either.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 31 January 2003 14:24 (11 years ago) Permalink

Why isn't it reciprocal? Why don't black fans pack Creed shows, for example?

You do realize that there are not equal numbers of black and non-black people in the U.S., don't you?

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 31 January 2003 16:27 (11 years ago) Permalink

Uh, I'm guessing white people appreciate funkiness, but black people generally don't like stuff that's NOT funky.

andy, Friday, 31 January 2003 16:27 (11 years ago) Permalink

Or possibly black people have taste when it comes to Creed.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 31 January 2003 16:28 (11 years ago) Permalink

Dude, I hate to say it, but I know a black kid who loves Creed.

Is there some sort of impossible-to-avoid-insult-factor for black-people-what-rock similar to the one for white-people-what-rap?

nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 31 January 2003 16:36 (11 years ago) Permalink

Let's just talk about how cool J-Rock is. Have ya posted here much before? Welcome!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 31 January 2003 17:03 (11 years ago) Permalink

"If "Indieholic Anonymous" doubts that black people can rock then I should probably invite him to come to the studio sometime when I'm jamming with some friends. We'll blow his stupid ass through the back wall."

I don't see how "blowing his stupid ass through the back wall" would convince him of anything. Why don't you just impress him by rocking? Oh, I get it, you're "throwing down"!

matt riedl (veal), Friday, 31 January 2003 17:35 (11 years ago) Permalink

J-Rock, if you're still in Toronto, you must come to our FAPs. (I feel like a recruiter. Jeeze.)

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Friday, 31 January 2003 17:39 (11 years ago) Permalink

I don't see how "blowing his stupid ass through the back wall" would convince him of anything

Me neither. I guess that is how they solve their problems in the ghetto.

, Friday, 31 January 2003 20:15 (11 years ago) Permalink

hmmmm...I just don't get it? You're all saying Mike Gira is black and likes pavement, but no one has actually witnessed seeing him at a pavement gig?

WAIT A MINUTE!...I should have kept reading:

------------------------------------------------------------

During highschool and Uni my walls were (and still are) plastered with pictures of The Pixies, Jane's Addiction, Sonic Youth, Fugazi, Bad Brains,
Pavement, GBV, NWA, Tribe Called Quest and Public Enemy. It's just music!! Enough with the categories! I have friends from all different
backgrounds who get down to all different kinds of tunes. What does hearing indie-rock first have to do with being able to appreciate hip-hop later, or
vice-versa?

I've been to rock shows where none of the friends I was with were white and I've been to hip-hop shows where they all were. I thought that I'd heard
the last of this crap in high school.

J-Rock
------------------------------------------------------

So what are you saying? Music genres don't necessarily have racial boundaries? Could this also go for some other issues in life? Oh, no, I have to change the filing system...excuse me...

gaitataxia, Friday, 31 January 2003 20:18 (11 years ago) Permalink

gaitataxia, what is your point? I don't understand...

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 31 January 2003 20:36 (11 years ago) Permalink

Actually, Dan, quite a few people have mentioned Living Colour.

Curtis Stephens, Friday, 31 January 2003 20:52 (11 years ago) Permalink

I appear to have been one of them. Heh heh...

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 31 January 2003 20:55 (11 years ago) Permalink

I couldn't believe how idiotic this thread was last July, but now its been exhumed and is getting even dumber.

Its like watching a car wreck. first off you have the moron who started it digging his hole deeper with every word out of his mouth, and then everyone else scrambling to jump in the hole too.

"black people" is not a unit. yet everyone here is talking like you can just say "black people ____________" and not come across as a completely ignorant and uninformed. Do any of you really know anything about the listening patterns and demographics that follow of people outside your immediate area? I really doubt it. I sure don't, so I don't pretend I do.

and matt riedl: I think by "blowing them through the back wall" he meant "rocking."

whatever, I don't even know who here is joking and who here is really just dumb...

tinobeat (tinobeat), Friday, 31 January 2003 21:05 (11 years ago) Permalink

(Everyone taking this discussion topic seriously raise their right hand. *raises left hand*)

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 31 January 2003 21:10 (11 years ago) Permalink

Astute choice of appendage.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 31 January 2003 21:21 (11 years ago) Permalink

"I want you to hit it...hit it and quit it..."

nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 31 January 2003 21:42 (11 years ago) Permalink

i'm a bit embarassed by my original post actually - i'm pretty sure the 'black people invented rock music dontcha know' was tongue-in-cheek...or maybe it was just my catchphrase at the time...

despite that, the topic does merit some serious discussion - because even know we all know that in reality of course rock n' roll is not something that only appeals to people who happen to be caucasian or whatever...but the stereotypes are real too, and perpetuated by a wide range of elements, from MTV to record stores to the consumers themselves

stevem (blueski), Friday, 31 January 2003 22:03 (11 years ago) Permalink

I can't belive that opening statement inspired so much discussion. I mean, if this was around Living Colour's era a discussion of whether black people SHOULD rock would at least be somewhat topical (everyone probably would have agreed Corey Glover shouldn't).

If the opening question was at all valid, the answer I'd have gained from mainstream American comedies is that black would-be rock fans wouldn't want to be surrounded by "a bunch of crazy white people." And white guys would respond "It's true! It's all true! We're sooo lame." And then we'd all dive into Fred Durst's chocolate starfish.

But again, I'm surprised you all, like, acknowledged this dillpickle.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 31 January 2003 22:30 (11 years ago) Permalink

And then we'd all dive into Fred Durst's chocolate starfish.

FIEND.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 31 January 2003 22:31 (11 years ago) Permalink

Everyone's just attacking strawmen and not addressing
the question.


Joe Dawg, Friday, 31 January 2003 23:02 (11 years ago) Permalink

The only place I ever hear about Living Colour currently is on this thread.

Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 1 February 2003 02:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Robert Johnson, Charley Patton, Son House, Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf, John Lee Hooker. Most rock(rhythmically) is nothing these guys haven't already done.

Chuck Berry and Little Richard. Can't get more rock'n'roll than them.

Jimi Hendrix, ultimate rock guitarist. Though he expressed concern about how brothers saw him.

Arthur Lee. What Jim Morrison wished he could be.

Funkadelic/Eddie Hazel rocked as much as Black Sabbath or Led Zeppelin in the day. A real "pysche" band.

Bob Marley listened to Hank Williams Sr. Toots and the Maytals did the definitive version of "Country Road." Don't forget Cymande.

Grandmaster Flash/Kool Herc/Bambaata spun Kraftwerk along with JB.
Don't forget about the Puerto Rican b-boys back in the day. They contributed too.

Prince is from Minnesota.

Pharrel of the N*E*R*D*/Neptunes, arguably the most influential producer in pop music today, has a skater/BMX/punk side and he has a bling side.

Polo Pony, Saturday, 1 February 2003 06:17 (11 years ago) Permalink

dude, you forgot Mother's Finest!

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 1 February 2003 06:59 (11 years ago) Permalink

I'm going to namecheck the Veldt here because no one else has and they need to be namechecked more often.

Chris Barrus (xibalba), Saturday, 1 February 2003 07:37 (11 years ago) Permalink

Corey Glover = the Wayne Brady of rock. Saw them 3 times, they...were...NEVER any good. Does anyone remember Xavion?

matt riedl (veal), Saturday, 1 February 2003 18:30 (11 years ago) Permalink

Tinobeat: 1. I was being funny. I knew he meant "rocking". I was pulling his chain. 2. If I DID know about the demographic outside my immediate area (which happens to be populated by a great MANY African-Americans), and it PROVED anything, would you concede or continue to rage on? "Black People" are not a unit, granted. "African-American consumers and musicians", however, ARE units, and quantifiable ones. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, I just don't think it's THAT stupid a thread. I've read a number of interesting viewpoints within it.

matt riedl (veal), Saturday, 1 February 2003 18:36 (11 years ago) Permalink

I'm going to namecheck the Veldt here because no one else has and they need to be namechecked more often.

FUCK YES.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 1 February 2003 21:26 (11 years ago) Permalink

Blacks have composed, played, and performed rock music since its emergence in the 1950s, but the term “black rock” came to be recognized around 1985. At that time, guitarist Vernon Reid and music journalist Greg Tate joined with a small group of black musicians and music industry professionals in New York City to found the Black Rock Coalition (BRC). Reid was a young but accomplished musician whose work with avant-garde jazz artists such as Ronald Shannon Jackson had drawn critical attention. More significantly, he had recently formed the ground-breaking rock band, Living Colour, an all-black heavy rock band that would eventually score a string of minor hits on rock radio. BRC co-founder Greg Tate was beginning to establish himself as a journalist through his writing on black music in the Village Voice and to build a reputation as one of the major theoretical voices of the burgeoning hip-hop movement. Reid and Tate rightly recognized that the structure of the American popular music industry limited the growth of many black artists’ musical intentions, since throughout the era of rock ’n’ roll, the American music industry engaged in a kind of commercial segregation, placing black performers in tightly regulated categories designed to appeal to perceived demographics of the music audience, and it was rare to find a black musician given official sanction to perform the same with white rock.

http://www.jahsonic.com/BlackRock.html

Jan Geerinck, Saturday, 1 February 2003 23:14 (11 years ago) Permalink

The thing with this is the first post is asking about "why does black people never want to rock", yet you're specifying indie rock, which generally doesn't rock whatsoever anyway.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 3 February 2003 14:44 (11 years ago) Permalink

Well, for the most part.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 3 February 2003 15:09 (11 years ago) Permalink

It can very much rock. It might not funk, though.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 February 2003 15:29 (11 years ago) Permalink

why does aboriginals not want to funk?

the internet (scg), Monday, 3 February 2003 15:34 (11 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...
wow, in light of the OutKast semi-scandal, that's a very prescient post.

My Huckleberry Friend (Horace Mann), Monday, 16 February 2004 20:49 (10 years ago) Permalink

I suspect that many african americans perceive the "rock" sound to be white. Co-optation of the form has caused many to turn to sounds they can claim as their own. I can see this continuing with the present backlash/rejection of caucasion artists in the "so-called" backpack movement. Racism and all its cultural attachments "color" our perceptions for better or worse.

illcentric sounds, Monday, 16 February 2004 21:31 (10 years ago) Permalink

90 Day Men

roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 01:27 (10 years ago) Permalink

John Mayer & Dave Chapelle to thread!!!!

Jon Williams (ex machina), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 01:37 (10 years ago) Permalink

I rock everyday. However, I call it hip hop. I nod my head. I thrash. I break stuff... Uh okay I don't break stuff, I just fire off a few rounds on the desert eagle. Point is we been rocking. We did it with our gospel (speaking tongues), our blues, our jazz and OUR rock. How else we gonna get that out that frustration.

METALFACE, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:40 (10 years ago) Permalink

I'm getting frustrated just reading this thread!

Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:22 (10 years ago) Permalink

Donna, do you like the Darkness?

Jon Williams (ex machina), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:24 (10 years ago) Permalink

lemme think........NO

Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:39 (10 years ago) Permalink

why d'you ask?

Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:39 (10 years ago) Permalink

Why does black people never want to rock?

Jon Williams (ex machina), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:39 (10 years ago) Permalink

oh, wait- DARKNESS! it's a JOKE!

Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:40 (10 years ago) Permalink

Wait, I didn't mean THAT!

Jon Williams (ex machina), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:42 (10 years ago) Permalink

I know :)

Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:42 (10 years ago) Permalink

Do Husker Du and the Minutemen and Mission of Burma and the Replacements and (shut up! -ed.) count as ROCK?

Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:43 (10 years ago) Permalink

I have heard of this rock.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:43 (10 years ago) Permalink

Yes. This is good rock.

Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:44 (10 years ago) Permalink

Hurrah for rock! Let us nurture it, and it will grow big and warm with love.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:45 (10 years ago) Permalink

Corny indie fuck alert!!!

Jon Williams (ex machina), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:46 (10 years ago) Permalink

I knew several african american soul coughing fans and they were sort of indie I guess.

ipsofacto (ipsofacto), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:48 (10 years ago) Permalink

Let us nurture it, and it will grow big and warm with love

hmm....

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:48 (10 years ago) Permalink

Jon, twenty years from now, sipping a Grolsch with tears in his eyes: "WOLF EYES MEANT SOMETHING TO ME, MAN!"

"That's nice, dear. Take out the trash."

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:49 (10 years ago) Permalink

Jon, twenty years from now, sipping a Grolsch with tears in his eyes: "WOLF EYES MEANT SOMETHING TO ME, MAN!"

"That's nice, dear. Take out the trash."

20 years? My wife has that attitude now! (she's the sensible one in the family)

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:50 (10 years ago) Permalink

Well yeah, but Jon's still in college and finding his place in the world.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:51 (10 years ago) Permalink

I like Soul Coughing, but they do not ROCK

Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:52 (10 years ago) Permalink

Bluesk,

It's not exactly right to say that blacks invented rock. Rock grew out of the meeting between black and white rural styles. Listen to Chuck Berry: it's the blues meets country, black meets white. The notion that whites 'took' rock from blacks is just p.c. revisionist blather.

Tab25, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:54 (10 years ago) Permalink

i wish you hadn't referred to that post as it makes me cringe - black people invented everything tho, it's true. one specific black person in fact. his name was Carl.

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:02 (10 years ago) Permalink

I like Soul Coughing, but they do not ROCK
-- Donna Brown (summerbab...) (webmail), February 17th, 2004 8:52 AM. (Donna Brown) (later) (link)


Thats arguable.

ipsofacto (ipsofacto), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:09 (10 years ago) Permalink

who cares whether they rock or not? his voice cuts glass and that may be enough

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:16 (10 years ago) Permalink

I should let him know, I think he's looking for something to do with his time more and more these days.

ipsofacto (ipsofacto), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:22 (10 years ago) Permalink

Who is the BLACK Wolf Eyes?

Jon Williams (ex machina), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:23 (10 years ago) Permalink

There aren't as many as whites, but, from my experience, when black people decide to rock, they rock even harder. (And i'm not talking about, ohh!! rocking by listening to hip hop, and that kind of shit, but rocking to what normally is considered rocking)I guess it has to something with the fact they are devoid of that white liberal guilt type of thing. Anyway, example: Bad Brains, no one can deny they fucking rock in every traditional metal punk fist raising kind of way and do it extremely well.
Anyway saying black people don't rock is almost stereotypical.
Its basically the same with the latino stereotype. Your latino you must like salsa, and like to dance. Or if you like rock, you must like shit like Mana or Juanes (which I consider the Latin American version of Dave MAtthews Band). I personally despise dancing(well, salsa and merengue dancing at least, I actually like the Axl snake dance) and I hate both Mana and Juanes.

Cacaman Flores, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:33 (10 years ago) Permalink

Bad Brains rocks really now with all the HOMOPHOBIA and HR not remembering lyrics.

Jon Williams (ex machina), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:35 (10 years ago) Permalink

homophobia?

Adrian (Adrian Langston), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:42 (10 years ago) Permalink

True Rastafarai does not tolearate no bloodclart batty men, etc:

According to 'Dance Of Days' at least, when HR was on a particular 'is babylon/is not babylon' trip he was prone to homophobic tirades. The guys not stable and Bad Brains haven't really rocked since I Against I anyways..

mzui, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:51 (10 years ago) Permalink

apologies for wayward spelling folks.

mzui, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:52 (10 years ago) Permalink

Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 03:26 (10 years ago) Permalink

This thread is weird. Here's my best shot at sorting out an answer...

Those who consider themselves music fans listen to multiple styles of music all the time. Those who don't, usually don't listen to music, or they limit themselves to listening to only a few styles. People of all races fall into both of these categories. Whoever asked this question, for some reason, has decided to place all black people into the latter category.

Yeah, this thread is horrible.

billstevejim, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 04:14 (10 years ago) Permalink

bad revival

stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 14:13 (10 years ago) Permalink

I went to the Ratpure show with Steve(M) but there wasn't any room for me to rock.

Barima (Barima), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:57 (10 years ago) Permalink

POINT OF ORDER: Living Colour rocks harder; Fishbone skronks harder.

You know it's true.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 23:02 (10 years ago) Permalink

girl, you know it's true...okay, I'll shut up now

Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 23:04 (10 years ago) Permalink

NO KEEP GOING!!!!

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 23:05 (10 years ago) Permalink

I blame it on the rain. *looks out window and notices rain*

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 23:11 (10 years ago) Permalink

The main problem with Living Color is that their lyrics were awful and the singer sucked.

Tab25, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 23:11 (10 years ago) Permalink

Er?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 23:12 (10 years ago) Permalink

Living Colour, OTOH, had a great singer and (for the most part) passable lyrics.

Milli Vanilli also rocked, but not as much as THE REAL MILLI VANILLI.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 23:13 (10 years ago) Permalink

I'm black and I listen to alot of rock music, along with Jazz and other types including foreign music even though I have no idea what they're saying. It came about because I got tired of listening to rap/hip hop. It couldn't hold my interest. Sorry. Alice in Chains is my favorite. I like Black Sabbath too. If you don't like it,well that's too bad.

Fear and Loathing, Monday, 1 March 2004 02:04 (10 years ago) Permalink

One band that rocks hard and has a couple of black guys is "Madfly", their CD is "White Hot". Hard, heavy rock stuff all the way. Really good band. Check it out. MADFLY. Other than that, not too many brotha's that like pure Hard Rock/Metal music. Unless it has some of that 'thang' in it. Mortal Portal

Mortal Portal, Monday, 1 March 2004 19:14 (10 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...
hey, i'm a black girl but i really do love rock music and i felt kinda bad about until I read some of things you wrote so thanks and I realaized that hey! music is music , if you like it you like it

me, Tuesday, 16 March 2004 22:42 (10 years ago) Permalink

ILM in rare good-for-something shocker!

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 22:44 (10 years ago) Permalink

I can name TOO many bands that have blacks that rock:

-P.O.D
-SEVENDUST
-Incubus
-GodForbid
-Yellowcard
-Bad Brains

And I know there are A HELL OF A LOT more.

Oh yeah, and I'm a black............who ROCKS.

.(....\............../....)
..\....\..Rock.. /..../
...\....\........../..../
....\..../´¯.l.¯`\../
..../... l....l....(¯`\
...l......l....l.....\....\
...l......l´¯.l´¯.l \....\
...\......` ¯..¯ ´....../rock n' roll!

Cierra, Friday, 19 March 2004 02:25 (10 years ago) Permalink

Oh yeah, and if you feel "bad" for liking rock no matter what race you are, you're an IDIOT, because music IS music like "Fear and Loathing" said.

Music is not "white", music is not fucking "black"(though some would like to beleive so)........music is FUCKING music.

Music belongs to no one(accept for everyone, if you know what I mean)

Oh yeah, and a couple more of my favorite bands that happen to have blacks in them:

-Hootie and the Blowfish
-Dakota Moon

ROCK ON!

Cierra, Friday, 19 March 2004 02:28 (10 years ago) Permalink

You like Incubus, Bad Brains, *and* Hootie and the Blowfish?
That is admirable.

pete s, Friday, 19 March 2004 02:31 (10 years ago) Permalink

I love that new God Forbid album so much.

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 19 March 2004 02:41 (10 years ago) Permalink

I'm starting a punk band and I'm black and I play the guitar. THe singer in my band is black too. The bassist and the drummer are both white guys. My point is...well is nothing. :) Anyone wanna hear what we sound like send me an e-mail.

darkpcorporate, Saturday, 20 March 2004 02:23 (10 years ago) Permalink

I would check out the Cocker Spaniels, mp3s are here :

http://www.cspaniels.com/wtwpreorder.html

I would recommend DLing "The Only Black Guy at the Indie Rock Show"

Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Monday, 22 March 2004 19:49 (10 years ago) Permalink

i would recommend locking this thread

stevem (blueski), Monday, 22 March 2004 21:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

I was born and raised in the place where Hip-Hop was invented N.Y.C. and I can remember being told by by elders that rock and roll and hip - hop was being done years before it hit the main stream in juke-joints down south by black people. unfortunatly, the white people thought it was nothing but jungle music. I beg to differ that we did not invent rock and roll because we did. Any thing that had to do with rhythym of any kind weather it be dancing or music was invented by us. White people begin to want to know how to use it and do it, and thats how it became mainstream. But all black young people know that our ancestors was picking on the guitar long before elvis presley.

silvohn clinton, Monday, 22 March 2004 22:51 (10 years ago) Permalink

Yup. Short memories.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Monday, 22 March 2004 22:53 (10 years ago) Permalink

I'm with thread-locking. Black people rocking is SO 2003

Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Monday, 22 March 2004 23:58 (10 years ago) Permalink

The thread which refuses to die...

J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 05:53 (10 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...
I didnt know head banging was real dancing? I mean you just jump and act crazy. Sometimes it just looks silly. Dont get me wrong i love my rock and all but black people and latino's are so just fluent and have alot rhythm when they dance, something white people just dont seem to have. Anyone get what im trying to say?

E, Saturday, 1 May 2004 01:26 (10 years ago) Permalink

=:-O

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Saturday, 1 May 2004 01:40 (10 years ago) Permalink

White people be head bangin'!

C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Saturday, 1 May 2004 01:43 (10 years ago) Permalink

I believe America's ORIGINAL slaves, the Irish and the Scots, liked to dance and pick stringed instruments, too.

Justin Farrar (Justin Farrar), Saturday, 1 May 2004 04:14 (10 years ago) Permalink

America's ORIGINAL slaves

Over a hundred years of Spanish and Portuguese colonial history before Jamestown to thread.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 1 May 2004 04:17 (10 years ago) Permalink

Ned=Rock!

Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Saturday, 1 May 2004 08:01 (10 years ago) Permalink

Is there anything more Classic than a Mick with a revisionist persecution complex? </controversy>

noodle vague (noodle vague), Saturday, 1 May 2004 11:26 (10 years ago) Permalink

first of all, why should black people need to rock? as if rock is the best music ever invented that all people on earth should simply HAVE to like. GTFOHWTBS.

secondly, there are lots of black rockers making music today and there have been throughout the decades.

thirdly, because black people invented rock. do your history.

thesplooge (thesplooge), Saturday, 1 May 2004 11:32 (10 years ago) Permalink

also, i do like the way you refer to black people as a singular unit. thats lovely.

thesplooge (thesplooge), Saturday, 1 May 2004 17:17 (10 years ago) Permalink

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Saturday, 1 May 2004 17:22 (10 years ago) Permalink

My grandma remembers signs that said "NO IRISH OR NIGGERS NEED APPLY"

NUMBER 1 TERRY RILEY FAN (ex machina), Saturday, 1 May 2004 17:27 (10 years ago) Permalink

Let me say that first and foremost, the most offensive part of this thread is the atrocious grammar in the subject line. I mean, my god!

David Allen (David Allen), Saturday, 1 May 2004 18:09 (10 years ago) Permalink

GO BACK TO THE JUNGLE

NUMBER 1 TERRY RILEY FAN (ex machina), Saturday, 1 May 2004 18:14 (10 years ago) Permalink

ENJOY YOUR FUN AND GAMES

Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Saturday, 1 May 2004 20:29 (10 years ago) Permalink

Visit any old Funkadelics, pre-One Nation. Maggot Brain, America Eats It's Young, Cosmic Slop, Let's Take It To The Stage. Earlier Prince, Pre-Purple Rain. Ever hear of Mandrill? Can I say enough about the Bad Brains, No Bad Brains, DC Hard Core,no Fugazi, Black Flag, Cro-Mags, Pantera the lists go. Hey what about Lenny Kravits, eric Gails, John Butcher Axis, Living Color, 247 Spies, Stress, Skunk Anizi

vernon, Wednesday, 5 May 2004 14:58 (10 years ago) Permalink

Visit any old Funkadelics, pre-One Nation. Maggot Brain, America Eats It's Young, Cosmic Slop, Let's Take It To The Stage. Earlier Prince, Pre-Purple Rain. Ever hear of Mandrill? Can I say enough about the Bad Brains, No Bad Brains, DC Hard Core,no Fugazi, Black Flag, Cro-Mags, Pantera the lists go. Hey what about Lenny Kravits, eric Gails, John Butcher Axis, Living Color, 247 Spies, Stress, Skunk Anizi are you listening?

vernon, Wednesday, 5 May 2004 14:58 (10 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

MOMUS LOVES LIVING COLOR

0r4l R0b3rt5 (ex machina), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:17 (10 years ago) Permalink

nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:38 (10 years ago) Permalink

0r4l R0b3rt5 (ex machina), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:44 (10 years ago) Permalink

STIFFED! this band fucking rock and they are part black! santi white is my future wife (except she isnt).

dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:48 (10 years ago) Permalink

HA HA HXC KIDS U R ALL PIXEL8TED

nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:56 (10 years ago) Permalink

As I put in another thread: Art Terry on Resonance FM

Thea (Thea), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:22 (10 years ago) Permalink

Why does Momus never want to Rawk?

briania (briania), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:58 (10 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...
I'm a Pakistani-American who loves Pavement, i p0wn this thread.

DAziz, Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:09 (9 years ago) Permalink

But why does Pavement never want to rock???

chuck, Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:10 (9 years ago) Permalink

hahahahaha 5/5

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:13 (9 years ago) Permalink

I could also question whether a Pakistani-American is "black," but I'll leave that to the Brits.

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:16 (9 years ago) Permalink

Have Pavement ever rocked?

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:19 (9 years ago) Permalink

No, but they have pavemented, which is close.

chuck, Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:21 (9 years ago) Permalink

I believe that D Aziz could be considered part of the black diaspora.

adam. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:22 (9 years ago) Permalink

sedimentary vs. igneous

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:22 (9 years ago) Permalink

Short Pakistani kid in glasses is de rigeur at all indie gigs, though.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

Have Pavement ever rocked?

"Unfair" works as both an answer and as an example.

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:27 (9 years ago) Permalink

The biggest fan I ever met of the Wedding Present -- arguably the whitest, most funk-free rock band (and an INDIE rock band, no less) in the world -- was a big black gentleman named Sean, which craps all over this theory.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:28 (9 years ago) Permalink

Why do second and third generation Italians never want to rock, anyway?

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:28 (9 years ago) Permalink

Perhaps we're all too busy fixing your car.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:29 (9 years ago) Permalink

i rock hard, dawg

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:29 (9 years ago) Permalink

Do jews rock?

adam. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:31 (9 years ago) Permalink

Lenny Kravitz doesn't, but that's because he's black.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:32 (9 years ago) Permalink

Do jews rock?

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:32 (9 years ago) Permalink

sammy davis rocked pretty hard

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:33 (9 years ago) Permalink

I don't "get" Kiss. I'm British.

adam. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:33 (9 years ago) Permalink

Sammy D Jr died a member of the church of Satan!

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

Rob Sheffield used to wonder why does Irish people never want to rock as much as Italians in Boston:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0111/sheffield.php

chuck, Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

dom: hence why he rocked so hard.

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

klezmer rocks.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

I don't "get" Kiss. I'm British.

You don't have to get them. You must only admit that they -- like'me or hate'em -- do indeed rock.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

like'me or hate'em

That should've been like'EM, not like'me, but ya don't have to do that either.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

Sorry, wasn't trying to imply I was black, I had forgotten the title of the thread and was merely referring to the following:

I don't think less of them for not liking it, I'm just curious as to why I never see any black people at concerts or hear of any black indie fans. True, I don't see many Pakistan inides either. It would be fun seeing a Pakistan Pavement fan though! And most genres have crossovers of their fan base demographic. Many white people listen to rap etc.
-- Indieholic Anonymous (@ .co...), July 25th, 2002.

DAziz, Friday, 17 September 2004 17:04 (9 years ago) Permalink

I don't "get" Kiss. I'm British.
Great. Now I'm having a flashback to the C*lum thread about "Why Don't Brits Get Kiss" or whatever.

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 17 September 2004 22:51 (9 years ago) Permalink

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 18 September 2004 00:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

D. Aziz, I knew what you were referring to, and I hadn't even read the thread in a while.

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Saturday, 18 September 2004 00:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

I once knew a Jew who rocked. Seriously.

Nowell, Saturday, 18 September 2004 02:14 (9 years ago) Permalink

Black people who rock! (or once rocked - listed in no particular order)

1. D.H. Peligro (Dead Kennedys drummer)
2. Skeeter Thompson (Scream bassist)
3. Sly Stone
4. Gary Powell (the Libertines drummer)
5. Bad Brains
6. Poly Styrene* (X-Ray Spex)
7. Chuck Berry
8. Little Richard
9. Mick Collins
10. Jimi Hendrix
11. Pat Smear** (the Germs, Nirvana, Foo Fighters)
12. Vaginal Creme Davis
13. Carl Crack (Atari Teenage Riot)
14. Ivan Julian (guitarist for Richard Hell & the Voidoids)
15. Jean Beauvoir (Plasmatics bassist; Ramones songwriter)
16. Slash*** (Guns 'n Roses)
17. Tom Morello**** (Rage Against the Machine, and, uh, Audioslave)
18. Santi White (Stiffed)
19. Phil Lynott***** (Thin Lizzy)
20. Michael Cornelius (JFA bassist)
21. Bubba Dupree (Void guitarist)
22. Ike Turner
23. Robert Johnson

* = English/Somalian
** = White, black and Cherokee
*** = mulatto
**** = mulatto
***** = black/irish

Nowell, Saturday, 18 September 2004 02:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

There was a black girl standing next to me at the Guided By Voices show I went to in 1996.
She got really excited when she noticed Spiral Stairs standing at the side of the stage, like jumping up and down and covering her mouth with her hands excited.

AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 18 September 2004 02:32 (9 years ago) Permalink

See, there's fans of different music of all races. They're just rare.

Nowell, Saturday, 18 September 2004 02:34 (9 years ago) Permalink

In my creative writing class, there was one black girl in the entire class -- black person for that matter.

When it came time for us to discuss Hip Hop in class, the prof brought in some producer from the detroit rap scene called MC Surreal. She was the only one in the class who didn't like rap, with the except of MC Paul Barman who she enjoyed.

David Allen (David Allen), Saturday, 18 September 2004 06:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

Does the white person in Curt1sss' picture work for ABC Sports?

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 18 September 2004 06:46 (9 years ago) Permalink

this thread brings out the asshat in us all!

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Saturday, 18 September 2004 16:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...
Kanye West's iTunes Celebrity Playlist!

A Thousand Miles - Vanessa Carlton
12:51 - The Strokes
Seven Nation Army - The White Stripes
The Scientist - Coldplay
Torn - Natalie Imbruglia
Spaceship - Kanye West, GLC & Consequence
Lucifer - Jay-Z
Sleep to Dream - Fiona Apple
Cause I Love You - Lenny Williams
Mystery of Iniquity - Lauryn Hill
Distant Lover - Marvin Gaye
Am I High - N.E.R.D.
Used to Love U - John Legend
This Love - Maroon 5
Take Me Out - Franz Ferdinand
No Such Thing - John Mayer
Scar Tissue - Red Hot Chili Peppers
The Reason - Hoobastank
Selfish - Slum Village, Kanye West & John Legend
99 Problems - Jay-Z
Electric Relaxation - A Tribe Called Quest
How Many MC's... - Black Moon
The Rain - Missy Elliott

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:11 (9 years ago) Permalink

Choice comments:

"12:51" (Track 2): "Ah man, I love this song so much that I almost f**ked up the mix down on my album because you can barely hear their lyrics. I went in the mix on my album trying to make the guitar louder, trying to make it sound like The Strokes, and Common was like, 'Come on, man, that don't sound like hip-hop. Come on, man, turn them drums up.'"

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:14 (9 years ago) Permalink

"This Love" (Track 14): "You know why I like that song ... Maroon 5 is one of my favorite groups."

"Scar Tissue" (Track 17): "Red Hot Chili Peppers is my favorite group of all times, he says 'broken jaw,' too, so you know I like that."

"The Reason" (Track 18): "Them my homeboys, I always see them we go to places like England and Canada. We always kicking it backstage you know just having a good time."

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:17 (9 years ago) Permalink

Why am I not surprised that Kanye has some of his own music on his playlist?

nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:19 (9 years ago) Permalink

"A Thousand Miles" (Track 1): "See I always liked the song until I saw the movie White Girls. This must be the white song that all black people like, you know every year there's a song that black people like and this is that. I love the string arrangements. Ron fare is really up on the strings.

"Seven Nation Army" (Track 3): "OK this is another song that is all black people's favorite white song. Everybody loves The White Stripes so it's kind of cliche, but it's really dope and I love the singer/songwriter/producer thing going on, so..."

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:19 (9 years ago) Permalink

you're a bad man jaymc

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:25 (9 years ago) Permalink

I haven't said anything!

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:26 (9 years ago) Permalink

The only thing that makes me really go wtf is his Hoobastank comment.

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:27 (9 years ago) Permalink

yes, for alerting me to that you are a bad man. also for reviving this thread.

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:29 (9 years ago) Permalink

Why does musicians not allowed to listen to their own music?

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:33 (9 years ago) Permalink

most of those songs are good songs.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

OK this is another song that is all black people's favorite white song.

christ.

I had no idea that Hoobastank kicks it backstage.

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:39 (9 years ago) Permalink

Didn't Chuck say that a disproportionate amount of black P&J voters have listed Fiona Apple?

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

when fucking COMMON is telling you to turn the drums up, then you know you're in bad shape.

m. (mitchlnw), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:47 (9 years ago) Permalink

the day just blaze looks to "room on fire" for mixing advice is the day i stop listening to rap music (ps i love room on fire but COME ON)

m. (mitchlnw), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:49 (9 years ago) Permalink

CO MONE

m. (mitchlnw), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

CM ONNEN

m. (mitchlnw), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:51 (9 years ago) Permalink

I actually have little to no shock or beef with the songs he's picked. I'd probably listen to his Ipod before a lot of Ilxors.

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

though I doubt I'd announce during "99 Problems" that this is the one black song this year that all white people like.

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:54 (9 years ago) Permalink

even if it is!

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:54 (9 years ago) Permalink

though I'd make him replace "A Thousand Miles" with "White Houses." It's way better.

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

i feel i should add that i don't think its a bad list really. there are at least 8 songs that i really like, and a few others that i like just fine.

m. (mitchlnw), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:59 (9 years ago) Permalink

6 months pass...
Feel like commenting on this. First of all, the title of the thread is not the best one. I mean, there are hundreds of millions of black people in the world, and you will probably find all kinds of musical tastes among them. Even Christian country.

But there is still a tendency, that while there have always (well, after 1955 anyway) been a lot of white people getting into musical genres that are normally stereotyped as "black", the percentage of black people getting into musical genres that are normally stereotyped as "white" is considerably smaller.

And I don't really buy the comparision between indie and Christian country here. Country music, not at least the Christian kind, is usually connected with a culture that black people have a good reason to distance themselves from. I mean, you've got the rednecks, the Christian right, the Ku Klux Klan etc. All of them part of a culture that is deeply rooted in the American South. Yes, I am aware that most African American music was pioneered in the same geographic areas, but country music is still very much linked with white people down there, and particularly with rascist and very much right wing ones.

As for indie, particularly in the US, indie started out in the college rock circuit, that is, among kids that were usually liberal, educated, and considerably less likely to be rascist than the Rednecks. Sure, they may be considerably more Middle class than the rednecks, so from a marxist point of view, they may be part of the oppressors while the rednecks are among the oppressed ones. But still, that kind of people are considerably more likely to have a tolerant attitude towards black people and black culture than the stereotype redneck does. And before post-50s r&r, pre-disco, these people were a lot more likely to be into R&B or early funk than the rednecks were too.

So I don't see why black Americans (as a general stereotype here, as I stated in the first paragraph, there are of course lots of exceptions to this stereotype) should see the need to distance themselves from indie (or the rock "canon", which is usually created by rather educated and tolerant people as well).

Indie is of course just an example, and it is correct that, for instance, Coldplay (a band that is loved by Timbaland btw) don't really "rock". So maybe a more natural question would be, why is is so hard for the vast majority black audiences to get into melody/song oriented "white" pop?

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 21 May 2005 02:45 (9 years ago) Permalink

Geir, you should go upthread and read Nabisco's comments starting around here. It's not that black Americans feel the need to "distance themselves from indie"; by and large, they're not even really aware of indie, since they have few opportunities to come into contact with it. It's not part of their cultural discourse at all. Whereas hip-hop, since it's basically pop music in the US, is something that all white people have an opinion on, whether good or bad.

jaymc (jaymc), Saturday, 21 May 2005 14:28 (9 years ago) Permalink

Doesn't explain why very few Europeans of non-European descent like guitar based rock as well. Because here, particularly in the UK, indie is part of most young people's cultural discourse.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 21 May 2005 14:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

where do you holiday, geir?

RJG (RJG), Saturday, 21 May 2005 15:13 (9 years ago) Permalink

If the opening question was at all valid, the answer I'd have gained from mainstream American comedies is that black would-be rock fans wouldn't want to be surrounded by "a bunch of crazy white people." And white guys would respond "It's true! It's all true! We're sooo lame."

Oh, Anthony is so funny! How To Rock Like A Black Feminist Critic to thread. (And I actually think the jump to country is a lot less hard than the jump to indie.) Even if every black fan of let's say Arcade Fire went to a show at one time, there's still way less of them than the white fans due to sheer numbers. What are there like 10 million black people compared to 100 million (okay, exaggerating) white people?

xpost I think part of that, Geir, is social indoctrination. There's socially coded "black things" and "white things." "Black things" when I was growing up in NYC: Hot 97/Kiss FM/WBLS, Video Music Box/Yo MTV Raps/BET, Right On/Honey/Vibe magazines, Martin/Def Comedy Jam/Jamie Foxx Show. "White things": Z-100/K-Rock/WPLJ, 120 Minutes, Rolling Stone/Seventeen/People, Friends/SNL/Home Improvement. Of course because those are mass media things, people are crossing all the time. In the "black community," the general reaction to black people liking "white shit" is "you're weird" so it inhibits people that compared to white people liking black stuff where it's like "whoa, you're so cool and forward-thinking!"

Candicissima (candicissima), Saturday, 21 May 2005 15:21 (9 years ago) Permalink

I was told about some sort of Rock band led by Mos Def called something like "Black Jack Johnson" I don't know exactly how correct this is. But hey it interested me when I heard it.

Tokyo Ghost Stories (Tokyo Ghost Stories), Monday, 23 May 2005 02:15 (9 years ago) Permalink

Hmm, I think this whole debate would be better served by socio-economic arguments and the cultural identification mechanisms of minorities. E.g. "why does arab people in Europe never want to rock either?"

The Emancipation of Baaderonixx (KERERU 4 LIFE!) (Fabfunk), Monday, 23 May 2005 08:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

i was in a sister ray cover band with one of my black mates.

Nic de Teardrop (Nicholas), Monday, 23 May 2005 08:49 (9 years ago) Permalink

E.g. "why does arab people in Europe never want to rock either?"

Sure. I mean, I count understand that they prefer listening to Banghra or Bollywood. But why hip-hop? What is it in their cultural background that would make the particularly likely to enjoy American hip-hop? The fact that some American rappers are Muslims?

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 23 May 2005 10:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

Rachid Taha, an Algerian who now lives in France rocks.

Geir, people of all colors and religions all over the world are fascinated with and enjoy hip-hop. You can hear rapping in countless different languages.

steve-k, Monday, 23 May 2005 11:20 (9 years ago) Permalink

Well, it's mostly that, in Europe, hip hop is still seen as a rebellious force, which is bound to attract kids who feel excluded from mainstream society. Just like it did in the US until early 90s (and maybe still does?)

The Emancipation of Baaderonixx (KERERU 4 LIFE!) (Fabfunk), Monday, 23 May 2005 11:27 (9 years ago) Permalink

dang. maybe this one.

Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Monday, 23 May 2005 11:29 (9 years ago) Permalink

Nabisco from a thousand years ago:

But a lot of rock listeners -- indie listeners, in particular -- actively fret about about black people in particular not being as involved in the indie scene. My question was: why do they fret about that, and not, say, the fact that just as few (or fewer) black people are interested in Christian country?

Dances around the dynamic that I think is at work.

Indie fans look around at an indie show and see only white faces and they do fret, yes. But I will submit that their fretting is exactly NOT because of nabisco's conjectures (that the indie fretter "thinks of punk-lineage indie rock as 'better' or 'smarter' than everything else" or that "non-white races in particular are 'lesser' or 'dumber'").

I think the problem is precisely the opposite: white indie fans view the monochrome audiences at their favorite band's show as an indictment of their taste. Conversely, a mixed audience would be an endorsement of their taste. Partly because everyone secretly believes that if black people like it, then it must be funky, and funky is good.

The issue is twofold: on the one hand, these corny indie fuxorz have a nagging insecurity and a sense of inferiority in this one narrow area: the authenticity of how they experience musical enjoyment. Cf. the widespread generalization that the white folks have no soul, no rhythm, cannot dance, etc. Soul, rhythm, and dancing (associated with black musical enjoyment) are signs that you are enjoying the music on a more visceral and possibly more "real" level, vs. a more cerebral form of enjoyment that is associated with whiteness and lameness and general lack of "rock" virtues, which are supposed to center on the hips more than the head.

The second part of the equation has to do with indie fans being of an age and class and temperament where diversity is presented as an undisputed value. Geir just recently mentioned the

kind of people are considerably more likely to have a tolerant attitude towards black people and black culture than the stereotype redneck does

...translation: indie fans like to think of themselves as multiculturally inclined antiracists. Progressive values, socially liberal politics, a bohemian embrace of "alternative" culture. Let us leave aside for the moment whether they're right about themselves or not; what we're talking about is self-image. If an experience is as lily-white as your average Bright Eyes concert (say) then they worry that they're implicated in the segregation somehow, which runs counter to their self-image.

Hence the anxiety: it is driven more by insecurity than by arrogance.

The Mad Puffin, Monday, 23 May 2005 12:56 (9 years ago) Permalink

If an experience is as lily-white as your average Bright Eyes concert (say) then they worry that they're implicated in the segregation somehow, which runs counter to their self-image.

How if there is no segregation other than the one chosen by the opressed ones themselves?

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 23 May 2005 17:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

Geir, people of all colors and religions all over the world are fascinated with and enjoy hip-hop.

Sure, but why doesn't the same apply to indie, powerpop or prog?

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 23 May 2005 18:00 (9 years ago) Permalink

(or classical music for that matter)

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 23 May 2005 18:00 (9 years ago) Permalink

shit's just not cool

The Sensational Sulk (sexyDancer), Monday, 23 May 2005 18:05 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think the problem is precisely the opposite: white indie fans view the monochrome audiences at their favorite band's show as an indictment of their taste. Conversely, a mixed audience would be an endorsement of their taste. Partly because everyone secretly believes that if black people like it, then it must be funky, and funky is good.

The flaw here is, indie fans tend not to like disco or mainstream R&B, not because it is "black", but because it is "corporate" and "manufactured", that is, it is a production of capitalism rather than the real thing.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 23 May 2005 18:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

Okay, then I'll clarify: If an indie fan were to look around him or herself at a Bright Eyes/Belle and Sebastian/Smiths concert and saw a mixed-race audience, he or she would feel bolstered in liking the music.

When he or she looks around him or herself at a Decemberists / Long Winters / Death Cab for Cutie concert and sees a lily-white audience, the suspicion is that they've attached themselves to an unfunky and un"real" phenomenon.

The feeling doesn't necessarily extend to the liking of all music that black folks are said to like. Black folks liking indie music would reflect well on indie music--but it isn't a sufficient condition for coolness.

The Mad Puffin, Monday, 23 May 2005 19:22 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think you're pretty OTM, Mad Puffin, with the exception of the "funkiness." I don't think indie fans are looking to be told that the music they like is "funky" -- they probably know it isn't. But you're right that if black folks like it, then it "reflects well."

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 23 May 2005 19:30 (9 years ago) Permalink

...also it reflects well on them as people, because they pride themselves on being comfortable in a diverse setting. Being around black folks goes well with their social liberalism, generally progressive politics, vaguely bohemian lifestyle choices, etc. And being around only white folks makes them think of country clubs, law offices, Republican party functions, etc.

The Mad Puffin, Monday, 23 May 2005 19:39 (9 years ago) Permalink

Exactly.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 23 May 2005 19:41 (9 years ago) Permalink

And everyone got snippy when I made the "white people uncomfortable about being white" thread! Puffin dead-on, I think.

nabiscothingy, Monday, 23 May 2005 20:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

Can blue men sing the whites?

Ken L (Ken L), Monday, 23 May 2005 20:56 (9 years ago) Permalink

"they"

()ops (()()ps), Monday, 23 May 2005 21:30 (9 years ago) Permalink

The Mad Puffin, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 12:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

you are all forgetting

OFRA HAZA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JTS, Friday, 27 May 2005 14:08 (9 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...
BUMP, BIAAAAATCH!!!!

Mervin Heinz, Wednesday, 22 June 2005 18:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

Oh, great. Hello, thread.

joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 19:02 (9 years ago) Permalink

Un-bump? please?

John Justen (johnjusten), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 19:09 (9 years ago) Permalink

I dunno, perhaps discussing race might be a distraction from discussing gender.

Next up: Why is ILM predominantly right-handed?

The Mad Puffin, Wednesday, 22 June 2005 19:11 (9 years ago) Permalink

I just realized something: besides this being a stupid question in general, wtf is up with the "does?" And "Isn't it a human need to rock once in a while?" Whoever launched this thread needs a smack.

Candicissima (candicissima), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 19:12 (9 years ago) Permalink

Un-bump my heart.

RS (Catalino) LaRue (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 19:16 (9 years ago) Permalink

a thread is a cup until it is bumped

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 19:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

Why does left-handed philipino womens not wants to microhouse themselves?

John Justen (johnjusten), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 20:37 (9 years ago) Permalink

I just realized something: besides this being a stupid question in general, wtf is up with the "does?" And "Isn't it a human need to rock once in a while?" Whoever launched this thread needs a smack.
-- Candicissima (candicissim...), June 22nd, 2005 1:12 PM. (candicissima)

It is a straight up Ali G send-up, or no?

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 20:45 (9 years ago) Permalink

Why does left-handed philipino womens not wants to microhouse themselves?

I blame it on their repressive Catholic upbringing.

RS (Catalino) LaRue (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 21:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

7 months pass...
Proof! If any whitey tried using similar arguments to dis "black" music, they would be hated on. So, what do ya' think of this???

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,,1695373,00.html

Ima Hogg, Sunday, 29 January 2006 21:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

Shit yeah! You're right. I've NEVER heard people dissing 50 Cent, everybody must be too scared of being branded a racialist...

the UK's black music is back with a vengeance - does this mean the death of Indie boys and their guitars scene?

Man those indie boys and guitars are becoming a rare breed eh? Where did they all go? Talk about oppression!!

/heavy sarcasm

fandango (fandango), Sunday, 29 January 2006 23:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

KILL WHITEY!!

fandango (fandango), Sunday, 29 January 2006 23:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

11 months pass...
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/fashion/28Blipsters.html

lol UrbanDictionary

UART variations (ex machina), Sunday, 28 January 2007 20:09 (7 years ago) Permalink

: D

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 28 January 2007 20:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

we should have a contest guessing which urbandictionary entry that absolutely NOBODY uses will be referenced in the NYT next

critique de la vie quotidienne (modestmickey), Sunday, 28 January 2007 22:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

3. Pinkerton
24 up, 9 down

The best music on earth.

Pinkerton rocks!
by phrubee Nov 20, 2003 email it

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 28 January 2007 23:03 (7 years ago) Permalink

is "email it" the most useless feature ever?

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 28 January 2007 23:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

http://www.roctober.com/roctober/blackpunk4.html

Black Punk Time: Blacks in Punk, New Wave and Hardcore 1976-1983 (Part 4)
By James Porter and Jake Austen
(From Roctober #32, 2002)

curmudgeon (DC Steve), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 05:16 (7 years ago) Permalink

http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzz/Truglies

UART variations (ex machina), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 16:35 (7 years ago) Permalink

Ha... Margasak responds to the article in the Times.

http://blogs.chicagoreader.com/post-no-bills/2007/01/29/move-over-buppies-blipsters-are-coming/

factcheckr (factcheckr), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 19:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

Urban Dictionary
to me, merlindude04

show details
Jan 28 (3 days ago)
What's up! merlindude04@yahoo.com sent you this definition.

Pinkerton:

The best music on earth.

Pinkerton rocks!

http://pinkerton.urbanup.com/360224

--
http://www.urbandictionary.com/

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 31 January 2007 06:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

7 months pass...

We have to take our clothes off
We have to party all night
And we have to take our clothes off
To have a good time
Oh no

Excuse me miss
I couldn't help but to notice how alone you are
I dig the attitude and how you're acting like you own the bar
Got me flashing keys and I don't even own a car
Like you ain't feeling my charm, because I know you are
I'm trying to see how your lips feel
Oh I'm sorry, my name is Travie and I'm pretty much a big deal
Oh, you've never heard of me
That sounds absurd to me
The way you stole my attention was flat out burglary
What do you say let's exit stage left so me and you can
Possibly reconvene and play some naked peekaboo
Cause after all the blouse you're wearing is kinda see through
And it's obvious I'm heading wherever you're leading me too
Such an angel with a devilish angle
And quite the certified sweet talker
And you're buying every line of it girl
And I don't really blame you
If I was in your shoes I'd probably do the same too

We have to take our clothes off
We have to party all night
And we have to take our clothes off
To have a good time
Oh no

Now here's another barn burner for the slow learners
Put your helmets on and take a seat on the short bus
Next stop, right around the corner from your momma live
No turning back so you better buckle up
Shit, don't be concerned with mine
I feel like a Speak and Spell way I got you learning my lines
Fine, pull the string, replay that shit
I change my name to "did he really just say that shit?"
Yep
I'll take a mile if you let me
Six-five, two hundred plus and so sexy
My legs going numb for keeping my phone on vibrate
To hide the fact your girlfriend keeps textin' me
And I've been trying to never mind it man
But every time I get a new number, she finds it damn
And you thought you had it sewn up
Until right around amazing o'clock when I showed up

We have to take our clothes off
We have to party all night
And we have to take our clothes off
To have a good time
Oh no

Got chicks, all hot chicks
Indie-rock chicks, and hip-hop chicks
Slim chicks, round chicks
Black, white, yellow, and brown chicks
Got chicks, all hot chicks
Indie-rock chicks, and hip-hop chicks
Slim chicks, round chicks
Black, white, yellow, and brown chicks

Good grief girl, you're giving me goosebumps
Standing there in your underwear and new pumps
It's like the more time we waste and less time I get to taste you
Honestly I could easily replace you
It's not a scam girl
That's how I am girl
Peter Pan, I'm a sucker for smacker's jam girl
It's clear I'm only here for good clean fun
Shut up and kiss me like the antidotes under my tongue
Whoa

We have to take our clothes off
And we have to party all night
And we have to take our clothes off
To have a good time
Oh no
We have to take our clothes off
And we have to party all night
And we have to take our clothes off
To have a good time
Oh no

Got chicks, all hot chicks
Indie-rock chicks, and hip-hop chicks
Slim chicks, round chicks
Black, white, yellow, and brown chicks
Got chicks, all hot chicks
Indie-rock chicks, and hip-hop chicks
Slim chicks, round chicks
Black, white, yellow, and brown chicks

Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 18 September 2007 20:05 (6 years ago) Permalink

Oh my god, why do you exist.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 18 September 2007 20:07 (6 years ago) Permalink

Their guitarist is black!

Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 18 September 2007 20:12 (6 years ago) Permalink

I can never tell how many layers of irony Dom is operating on when he posts about Decaydance bands.

Alex in Baltimore, Tuesday, 18 September 2007 20:19 (6 years ago) Permalink

I _think_ three

Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 18 September 2007 20:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

your cut & paste skills are next level

M@tt He1ges0n, Tuesday, 18 September 2007 22:57 (6 years ago) Permalink

Gosh, Ned!!

roxymuzak, Tuesday, 18 September 2007 23:17 (6 years ago) Permalink

Mick Collins has never, in my knowledge ‘rocked’.

Mr. Goodman, Wednesday, 19 September 2007 00:12 (6 years ago) Permalink

Yes he has

Herman G. Neuname, Wednesday, 19 September 2007 00:18 (6 years ago) Permalink

Gosh, Ned!!

No, not gosh ned.

the next grozart, Wednesday, 19 September 2007 02:10 (6 years ago) Permalink

No, I was just surprised!

roxymuzak, Wednesday, 19 September 2007 03:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

Even I have my limits.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 19 September 2007 03:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?what=R&obid=509432

Chelvis, Wednesday, 19 September 2007 06:59 (6 years ago) Permalink

Mick Collins has never, in my knowledge ‘rocked’.

Why do YOU exist

DJ Mencap, Wednesday, 19 September 2007 08:10 (6 years ago) Permalink

I can never tell how many layers of irony Dom is operating on when he posts about Decaydance bands.

I do like that track, and considering the amount of dumb bullshit novelty rap ILX has gone to bat for over the years (Len, Fannypack, MIA), I dunno why they don't cut this tune some slack. Oh, yeah, right, old people be shook.

Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 19 September 2007 16:18 (6 years ago) Permalink

you won't be so young and pretty forever dom

M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 19 September 2007 16:21 (6 years ago) Permalink

<i>Mick Collins has never, in my knowledge ‘rocked’.

-- Mr. Goodman, Wednesday, September 19, 2007 12:12 AM (16 hours ago) Bookmark Link</i>

^wack

M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 19 September 2007 16:21 (6 years ago) Permalink

lol mr. wrongman is more like it

pretzel walrus, Wednesday, 19 September 2007 18:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

5 months pass...

Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 27 February 2008 21:02 (6 years ago) Permalink

waht

HI DERE, Wednesday, 27 February 2008 21:05 (6 years ago) Permalink

Why does Greek people never want to make sense.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 27 February 2008 21:09 (6 years ago) Permalink

lookin good, Hitler

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 27 February 2008 21:26 (6 years ago) Permalink

is that an ad for the new will ferrell movie

deej, Wednesday, 27 February 2008 22:06 (6 years ago) Permalink

It's the ad for the lost Chaplin classic, POOTIE TRAMP.

Terrible Cold, Wednesday, 27 February 2008 22:09 (6 years ago) Permalink

You need to find out who MICK COLLINS is.

-- http://gygax.pitas.com, Wednesday, July 24, 2002 12:00 AM (5 years ago) Bookmark Link

ian, Wednesday, 27 February 2008 22:40 (6 years ago) Permalink

sexyDancer, Wednesday, 27 February 2008 22:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 27 February 2008 22:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

m0stlyClean, Thursday, 28 February 2008 03:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

My wife initially thought "Black Country Rock" was about black country-rock.

Hurting 2, Thursday, 28 February 2008 03:28 (6 years ago) Permalink

5 months pass...

OFRA HAZA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Curt1s Stephens, Wednesday, 13 August 2008 06:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

Whoa, this thread. o_O I didn't read much, but wtf. Just some trolling?

RabiesAngentleman, Wednesday, 13 August 2008 07:38 (5 years ago) Permalink

A lot of bullshit here, but this post actually makes a lot of sense.

no one's mentioned PHIL FUCKING LINNOT of Thin Lizzy. But the list of black rock musicians would be near endless... the real question is why isn't "rock" marketed to black people, and why the continual ghetto-ization of genres into "this music is for black people" and "this music is for white people" still exists. It's very blatant. Go to any record store - 99% of the black artists are in "r&b/hip hop" and 99% of the white artists are in "rock". Total bullshit - the division is an artificial one perpetuated by racist marketing.

Surely there's an element of racism in the marketing. I mean, why are Lionel Richie and Seal R&B/soul while George Michael and Hall & Oates are not?

Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 13 August 2008 09:15 (5 years ago) Permalink

Blue eyed SOUL. There's a clue in the name.

The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics, Wednesday, 13 August 2008 09:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

Imagine if Mark Hammill had a intense thang for soul music.
"Use the Funk, Luke! Feel the Funk Flowing Through You!"

-- Lord Custos III, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (6 years ago) Bookmark Link

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 13 August 2008 09:22 (5 years ago) Permalink

Blue eyed SOUL. There's a clue in the name.

It seems "blue eyed" is the clue that causes the shops to classify them as "rock & pop" rather than "soul/R&B"

Of course the lack of logic here is not race-related only. What is it that makes most record stores categorize the entire Jackson family as pop/rock, but hardly any other black acts other than Hendrix/Kravitz etc, for instance?

And the lack of logic when it comes to what is hard rock and what is not is even more laughable. One record store chain here classifies Flower Kings and Spock's Beard as hard rock/metal while Led Zeppelin are not.

Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 13 August 2008 09:25 (5 years ago) Permalink

Together we made it (you see we did it niggaz!)
We made it even though we had our backs up against the wall (c'mon)
Forever we waited {ha ha!}
And they told us we were never gonna get it
But we took it on the road (to the riches) on the road (to the ghetto)
On the rooooad (and the projects to this bangin instrumental)
On the road (ride with me) on the road (we come and get it)
On the rooooad (yeah, yeah, yeah!)

The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics, Wednesday, 13 August 2008 09:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

OFRA HAZA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

??? Ofra Haza is neither black nor rock.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 13 August 2008 09:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

i like that so many posters immediate reaction to the first post was "indies not rock"

max, Wednesday, 13 August 2008 10:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

no wait i dont like that at all

max, Wednesday, 13 August 2008 10:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeah the embarrassment here wasn't only on the thread poster's hands. Between that and like, "wtf dude, Chuck Berry!" or whatever (when the question was directly regarding hiphop / indie rock) ILM's got a little slack to tend to. Only skimmed it, maybe there was more.

cue copy/paste of me being an idiot/loon someplace, I know it's happened.

RabiesAngentleman, Wednesday, 13 August 2008 10:42 (5 years ago) Permalink

black people never want to cause rock interferes with bluetooth

ice crӕm, Wednesday, 13 August 2008 13:26 (5 years ago) Permalink

10 months pass...

it's largely cultural.

Mike Crandle, Financial Analyst, Bear Stearns, New York, NY 10185 (res), Friday, 3 July 2009 00:47 (5 years ago) Permalink


Expand on dat.

DJ Mr. Face Stabba, M.D. (Whitey on the Moon), Friday, 3 July 2009 01:07 (5 years ago) Permalink

Why does whitey never on the moon?

a ho (The Reverend), Friday, 3 July 2009 01:10 (5 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

I recently received the first Nona Hendryx album, which I kind of ordered by mistake (I thought it was "Nona" from 1983 that was rereleased, and didn't realize it was her debut until I had already ordered it).

The content surprised me though. Here is a black female soul singer who used to be in Labelle, recording a new wave-ish rock album as her solo debut. "Nona" would be more traditional soul music (and a great example of that), but this album is actually not at all bad, a fully fledge rock album, only sung with a soulful R&B voice.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 15:23 (3 years ago) Permalink

you're on the wrong thread, but of course you would revive this

Nona Hendryx (produced by Tangerine Dream's Peter Bauman)'s "Skindiver". for fans of kate bush, peter gabriel or david sylvian

sleeve, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 15:26 (3 years ago) Permalink

oh god, this thread.

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 16:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

omg the fine art of thread revive as self-parody

MMLLLARRRFF (jjjusten), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 17:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

hey, i'm a black girl but i really do love rock music and i felt kinda bad about until I read some of things you wrote so thanks and I realaized that hey! music is music , if you like it you like it
― me, Tuesday, March 16, 2004 11:42 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark

This is the best post in the entire thread.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 17:32 (3 years ago) Permalink

Quit reviving this shit, yo

Morley Timmons, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 17:46 (3 years ago) Permalink

Son House
Robert Johnson
Muddy Waters
Willie Dixon
John Lee Hooker
Howlin' Wolf
Elmore James
Ike Turner
Little Richard
Chuck Berry

equals invented rock & roll

nicky lo-fi, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 18:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

I think maybe the question implied the word "anymore" at the end of it.

Lazarus Niles-Burnham (res), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 19:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 14 October 2010 09:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

borad.crutial.org (crüt), Thursday, 14 October 2010 10:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

Geir made a comment upthread about Hall & Oates and the like. I remember the early 80s where, depending on where you shopped, you could find so-called "blue-eyed soul" filed under soul / r & b.

Remember the Dayne! (u s steel), Thursday, 14 October 2010 10:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

Why doesn't white indie rock kids want to country music?

Lazarus Niles-Burnham (res), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 21:42 (3 years ago) Permalink

they did in the 90s

in my world of Hmong ppl (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 21:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

um yeah have you heard of this band, I think they're called Wilco

twat dust and ego overload (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 21:44 (3 years ago) Permalink

Palace Bros

twat dust and ego overload (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 21:44 (3 years ago) Permalink

Cass McCoombs

twat dust and ego overload (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 21:46 (3 years ago) Permalink

"y'allternative"

twat dust and ego overload (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 21:46 (3 years ago) Permalink

http://www.nodepression.com/

twat dust and ego overload (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 21:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

Alt-country, huh? Someone link me to where pitchfork reviewed a Garth Brooks or Randy Travis album.

Lazarus Niles-Burnham (res), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 21:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

I think there's an interesting cultural conundrum buried in here somewhere. Top 40 music in other genres has crossed over to the indie set, but not Top 40 country music. Why not?

Lazarus Niles-Burnham (res), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 21:52 (3 years ago) Permalink

oh you're asking THAT question. take it up with the rolling country thread and chuck eddy et al

twat dust and ego overload (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 21:53 (3 years ago) Permalink

drummer from ocean colour scene was black, iirc.

carles II of spain (max arrrrrgh), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 21:54 (3 years ago) Permalink

well, pitchfork didn't exist when i was at my whitest and indiest, thank christ...

um, but yeah basically speaking as someone who worshipped uncle tupelo and shit back then, we definitely started to verge over to regular country which i still love to this day as a result of starting with tupelo/jayhawks/palace bros, etc...

obv it started with like townes van zandt, guy clark, jimmy dale gilmore etc...then on to waylon and willie....but then pretty soon a lot of my friends and i were listening to george jones, dwight yoakam (at the height of his commericial popularity circa "this time"), and even dudes like gary allen, (some) alan jackson, randy travis, george strait, and tons of o.g. shit old time nashville stuff

a lot of dudes that were super alt country (way more than me) that i came up with now are just country dudes period, don't even like indie at all anymore

in my world of Hmong ppl (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 21:54 (3 years ago) Permalink

vampire weekend's next record is gonna be country

buzza, Wednesday, 22 December 2010 21:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

typo

baubles to the wall (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 21:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

seems like an indie alt country revival would kinda make sense, by way of the grateful dead and the byrds, lots of nu-psych bands will probably end up going up the country eventually

in my world of Hmong ppl (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 21:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

You know why they keep making CDs when the rest of the world has figured out how to steal/download mp3s? COUNTRY MUSIC.

Pleasant Plains, Wednesday, 22 December 2010 21:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

Why does people want to keep reviving this thread?

B-Boy Bualadh Bos (ecuador_with_a_c), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 22:23 (3 years ago) Permalink

i do it for the lulz

Lazarus Niles-Burnham (res), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 22:25 (3 years ago) Permalink

No Wicked Heart Shall Prosper.rar (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 22:26 (3 years ago) Permalink

There was like a four page feature on Jamey Johnson in Spin. Brad and Miranda had a little crossover love in 2009 too.

Indie kidz and major country are still def in the "dabbling" stages but the marriage certainly isn't unheard of

mmmm... yung hummus (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 22:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

I keep forgetting Spin exists.

that's not funny. (unperson), Thursday, 23 December 2010 02:12 (3 years ago) Permalink

You know why they keep making CDs when the rest of the world has figured out how to steal/download mp3s? COUNTRY MUSIC.

You know.... there is this funny little (?) thing called prog. It is actually now at its most popular since the mid 70s. And it has never quite caught on in the case of digital downloads. Maybe because people feel like concept albums filled with 30 minute suites and ambitious album artwork is more tempting to buy on CD than on digital files......

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Thursday, 23 December 2010 02:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

COUNTRY MUSIC and NORWEGIANS.

Pleasant Plains, Thursday, 23 December 2010 03:00 (3 years ago) Permalink

2 years pass...

I hope this doesn't seem racist, it's just fascinating.
― Indieholic Anonymous, Tuesday, July 23, 2002 6:00 PM (10 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I guess it did seem rascist...
― Indieholic Anonymous, Tuesday, July 23, 2002 6:00 PM (10 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sleepingbag, Wednesday, 29 May 2013 22:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

i often think about the title of this thread

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 29 May 2013 23:16 (1 year ago) Permalink


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