― Tom, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
DUD! DUD! DUD! DUD! DUD! DUD! DUD! DUD! DUD! DUD!
If that gets me shunned, I don't care. Abba is a vile abomination and Must Be Stopped. There are very few bands in the world that produce this sort of violent reaction in me.
It's a childhood thing. The very first time I ever visited America, they wouldn't stop playing Dancing Queen on the radio, so I have horrible bad associations.
If I could erradicate the influence of *one* band from modern music in its entirety, Wonderful Life-Stylee, it would be Abba.
Thoroughly and unmitigatingly VILE.
― kate the saint, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Omar, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
That said, my friend Trish maintains that "although Abba are great, if you are ever in a nightclub which is playing Abba music, you are in a bad nightclub".
― PihkalBoy, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
Add to this the fact that Abba came back into style while I was at 6th form and every lunch hour was spent cringing at the extrovert "performances" of Abba songs by the drama students in the quad corner. So I have to register a "dud" because they do it for my head and hips, but not my heart.
― Peter, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
I would even so go far as to say that no other pop group in history has as consistently written such a dead on perfect string of singles.
― Nicole, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
It's remarkable how critical opinion on them has turned around - they were pretty much reviled by the typical NME reader in the 70's, yet now it's uncommon to hear a word said against them. I suppose the reasons for that would be the genuinely lasting appeal of the melodies *and* the critical legitimisation of cheese.
― David, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
Well, a *multitude* of reasons, and you're going to get them all, in the heart/head/hips trichotomy that has been brought up recently.
1) Heart - the aforementioned association with a very *bad* period of my life. I never heard them in the UK for some reason, I lived in a bubble of old skool mod broken occasionally by punk rockers from the bad end of the street. Hearing Abba is associated exclusively for me with early trips to the US, and then with moving there in 1979, destroying my life forever. So they were doomed from the start by association.
2) Head - They started the most *APPALLING* genre of music ever. Respectfully keeping in mind your musical tastes, Tom, you've got to remember mine. From the aethetically criminally offensive domination of Pete Waterman, to today's crop of Steps and Atomic Kitten, I blame on Abba. I can occasionally even see redeeming glances of Motown in stuff like Destiny's Child, but this whole plastic disposable nightmare of irredemable pap is the legacy of Abba. I understand the cute, kitschy Warhol Coke bottle appeal of some bubblegum, but anything Abbaesque is just inherantly tainted and evil to me.
3) Hips - god, it's the most souless, slick, over-produced music I've ever heard. I know this is exactly what people praise it for- the slick production and knowingly terrible songwriting, but this is what makes me loathe it. I know that it's a terrible racial stereotypes to call music "black" or "white" as a substitute for expressing the even dodgier concept of "soul" but there really isn't any other way to describe the whiter than wonder bread Swedish pop abhorrences appropriating the "black" sound of disco and rendering it even more impotent and soulless than Kraftwerk.
No, I can't even say that, because Kraftwerk aimed to make machinelike music and succeeded. Abba puported to make soul music, but in reality made machinelike mass-produced pap. (That said, I actually rather like Kraftwurk.)
I don't like Abba. I never will like Abba. I cannot even conceive of liking Abba "ironically". I will not allow it in the house. My loathing of anything Abba borders on the obsessive.
And that brings up another thing- the sort of ironic kitschy-pop adulation of Abba by not only crap automaton office people, but serious music lovers who should know better.
I FUCKING HATE ABBA.
I'm not sure about the unequivocal classic - even their run of singles has some clunkers (the early stuff for instance) but at their frequent best they are THE best. Brilliant lyrics, utterly emotionally convincing songs, adult perspectives, ravishing melodies, irresistible machine grooves, voices full of shivering restraint....I think a lot of their stuff is still very, very underrated.
(Back to Kate - it's interesting that the things you single out in Abba - a cold whiteness, knowingly simplistic songwriting, anal attention to production texture, emotionless blankness - are exactly the things I'd single out to dislike about the post-Velvets drone and spacerock you like so much. ;))
I would also contest that the songwriting is "deliberately awful". Some of the rhymes are indefensibly bad, but the melodies are drop dead classics.
But then I'm a crap automaton office person, so I would eat shit if McDonalds told me to, and if it helped me fit in with my mates.
But the problem here is just how over-fucking-rated they are. "Ooh, pure pop perfection!" It's the sort of thing I can imagine Geir Hongro mantra-ing and it's annoying as all hell. It's not like they were god's gift to music and all things cultural. They were a fairly decent pop band.
They are the Beatles of dance pop, basically. Which is an unfortunate thing, because like the Beatles, who I technically half like, they become dud by association with myth.
― Ally, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
As to "crap automaton office people" I've worked in enough offices to know that the average person who works in an office usually owns about a dozen CDs- one of them is often an Abba CD. They simply don't care enough about music to be caught dead on a board like this. The only music they listen to is "on the radio".
As to the emotional blankness of spacerock compared to the emotional blankness of pap like Abba and Waterpop, the difference is that (good) Spacerock *aims* for blankness as a means of transcendance from often overpowering emotion. Abba and Abba-derived pop claims to be emotionally deep, yet it only acheives blankness through shallowness.
You all apparently luuuurrrrrvvve Abba. That's your right. What is the point of an opinion if there isn't an opposing one? I think still it's an abomination.
For all my jibes about irony and soullessness, the basic problem is that I DO NOT LIKE THEIR MUSIC. End of story.
Kate - my suggestion would be that the sensitive boys who make spacerock would be a lot more interesting trying to express an extremity of emotion rather than bashing out chords and letting their fringes flop. But this I think is a different thread. Not one I'm likely to start as I'd get too rude.
Tesco Vee's Agnetha tribute in Forced Exposure: Classic!
"Gimme Gimme Gimme": Their best, gloomy, doomy classic.
Matching white jumpsuits: Whoa Nelly!
Overall: Classic.
― AP, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
It's just one of those things that drives me crazy, I referenced ol' Geir for a reason, which is that AS A STEREOTYPE ABBA is the sort of pop band that appeals to people like him, who think pop music is crap, but "Oh, look, ABBA has , so they are soooo much better than Britney Spears, who is awful". Sort of like how college kids who "hate rap" like the Beastie Boys. And, quite frankly, either Kate has worked in the dodgiest offices ever or she's only worked one place, because I find that statement about 12 CDs and crap taste to be blatantly, patently untrue. I work in an office, Tom works in an office, Fred Solinger works in an office, so on and so forth, and none of us have crap taste (in my opinion - take it or leave it how you will) and all of us have well over 12 CDs, and judging simply by my current office, we're not an abnormality. One of my coworkers has 8,000 CDs. He's 35 and the corporate controller - talk about stereotypical white collar desk jobs, eh?― Ally, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
And, quite frankly, either Kate has worked in the dodgiest offices ever or she's only worked one place, because I find that statement about 12 CDs and crap taste to be blatantly, patently untrue. I work in an office, Tom works in an office, Fred Solinger works in an office, so on and so forth, and none of us have crap taste (in my opinion - take it or leave it how you will) and all of us have well over 12 CDs, and judging simply by my current office, we're not an abnormality. One of my coworkers has 8,000 CDs. He's 35 and the corporate controller - talk about stereotypical white collar desk jobs, eh?
― Dr. C, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Otis Wheeler, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
is the perception of coldness because abba didn't use traditional signifiers of earthyness and grit (ie 'soulful' voices', rougher feel etc)? is it something to do with europeanness?
i think the idea of 'soul' is often too bound up with a certain way of thinking. i actually dislike the use of the word soul (perhaps because it implies something), much as i dislike 'vibe' etc (although i've been guilty of using that one)
and why is there the perception that abba, or kraftwerk, or autechre, lack 'something', that emotive aspect? because they seem very emotive to me.
anyway abba are classic, just for dancing queen alone...
― gareth, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Sterling Clover, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
i actually started on the same side as kate: hated people for their ironic adulation of the band, hated the white-bread sound, the goofy outfits, the slick production, the critical reassessment of the band, so on and so forth, all i'm missing is the psychological scarring. actually, all i knew by them was "dancing queen," but, OH, that was enough.
but it wasn't enough. and then, on a whim, feeling at the end of my rope pop music wise, i TOOK A CHANCE ON THEM (yes!) and downloaded "knowing me, knowing you." which is now one of a handful of my favorite songs ever.
i bet that the less you know about them, and especially the less albums you own by them, the better off you are. i, for example, only own abba gold and have gone very little further, though i've discovered that "the visitors" and "the day before you came" are also glorious songs. so based on abba gold, one of my desert island discs, i have no hesitation in proclaiming them a classic, one for the ages, and all of that. compare them to motown, a singles label if there ever was one: i imagine if i started buying four tops albums and huge boxed sets, i'd realize that probably a good half of their output was shit. as it is, though, based on a best of and a few of the greatest singles ever recorded, they're thoroughly classic. and so too are abba.
― fred "dancing queen" solinger, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― james edmund L, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
Nicole raised a very good point that I have to briefly expound upon -- one can, indeed, lurve someone else's diametric opposites, much to said other person's distress/anger/loathing etc. Like Nicole, Abba and Spacemen 3, for instance, nestle in my collection without regret. Viva.
And I have to say that Ally's call of 'Abba as the Beatles of dance-pop' is FUCKING BRILLIANT. Yoo rool.
But I hate ABBA fans - theys the rats knackers !
― All the things I could do ......, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Andrew, Friday, 20 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
I'm not ashamed to admit that the first album I ever willingly went out to purchase (ie. not the kiddie albums with yer abc's and such) was Waterloo, by ABBA, when I was all of 5, and that I religiously followed them until the end. I picked up each new relase on vinyl as it came out, and always cheered when one of the new singles cracked the Top 10. Sure it was cloying and sweet pop on the surface, but if you go back and re-listen to some of it, it was clear that something else was going on under the surface. From about Arrival on until the end, they were masters at fusing ripping guitar with popmusik and emerging unscathed. (I'd even argue that they started this even earlier, on songs like "Mamma Mia" and "SOS", but it's not so noticeable. And I shouldn't even have to mention that the title track from "The Visitors" was one of the most bent songs ever to be released into the mainstream by a supposedly "sickly sweet pop band": it was brilliantly claustrophobic both lyrically and musically, and the music was more reminiscent of stuff happening on the edges, like Gary Numan almost. The other thing that struck me about ABBA releases at the time: the construction of the album packages was always top- notch, with a glossy and thick sleeve both inside and out...no cheapo paper slipcovers for the vinyl. I realize I was young, but at the time it felt almost like art.
As I mentioned above, the cult of Abba I can do without. There came a point where it became kitsch to like them, and while I don't disagree that most of the fans today no longer listen to it for that reason, the association of kitsch lingers on thanks to films like "Muriel's Wedding" and the stage production of "Mamma Mia". Many people who like to think that they have good taste in music therefore view it as a red flag, and either hide their ABBA collection or say something like, "aahhh, they were gifts" or some other self-deluding thing. I admit that I'm like that, and that while I own a CD copy of The Visitors, I can't bring myself to buy copies of their earlier albums even when I find them in the used bin for cheap...though I really am tempted...just because of fear of losing face in the eyes of the salesclerks. Is that sad or what?
― Sean Carruthers, Friday, 20 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
anyway, when did people start unabashedly liking them again?
― sundar subramanian, Friday, 20 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― DG, Friday, 20 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Robin Carmody, Saturday, 21 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
is it hard to like spacemen 3? it is bandied about like an attribute on one's resume here.
― keith, Saturday, 21 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
Nah. I mentioned liking them because I know they are one of Kate's favorite bands, so they were sort of relevant to the discussion at hand. Not meant to be some sort of name dropping exercise at all, because that would be pretty sad...
― Nicole, Saturday, 21 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
it should be on my tombstone.
"Hi, I'm Kate, and I like Spacemen3".
This entire thread was an exercise in futility. You all had your ideas about Abba, and your ideas about people that hate Abba, and I was just there to provide the foil for your gushing. Everybody is satisfied.
― kate the saint, Friday, 27 April 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― K-reg, Monday, 14 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― cockney red, Sunday, 20 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
Around 1980, it had become a disgrace to listen to them, so I stopped doing it. Later, I rediscovered them "in the closet", but I kept having the feeling that it was some sort of excentric vice that I should be ashamed of. I had no idea that so many people felt the same as I did.
I'm proud that their value has been so widely recognized in the 1990's, so I don't have to be embarassed anymore about liking them. I'm proud also because it proves to me that, from the beginning, my ear was right. I have listened to many many other artists since then, in all possible styles, but Abba remains a reference to me, just like the Beatles, the Rolling Stones and Elvis. Their sound is just as unmistakeable, and their production has been just about as creative and diverse.
More than other musicians, Abba have been a victim of their image, maybe because of their gaggy outfits. They were and are still labeled as kitsch by many people, including their own fans. Many of those who declare hating them don't really know their music, and don't bother to.
There were quite a few bands and artists of the 70's that really were dud, but the difference is that those never enjoyed this sort of late recognition. Anyone remembers the Rubettes or the Brotherhood of Man for instance? They were successful though back then...
I don't agree either that Abba's music is plastic and devoid of emotions. That applies maybe to bands like the Bee Gees or Boney M., which are OK in their own style, but which I think do lack depth. On the opposite, an album like "the Visitors" is full of emotion and refinement. Emotion is not just about being "upbeat".
I can very well understand that, for a number of reasons, some people don't like their sound. It probably goes for most artists.; everyone doesn't like the Rolling Stones either, but no doubt that they are classics. But , whether one likes them or not, what I would like to underline is Abba's artistical value. They are by no means just a good old kitschy attraction. They are indeed two outstanding composers, and two outstanding voices.
― francois chevallier, Wednesday, 5 September 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink
― Chris, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink
― dleone, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink
And yes, they do sound better when you're in an office.
― fernando, Friday, 21 June 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
― dleone, Friday, 21 June 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
Anyway...never heard any of the alb. and the singles only on the radio. Didn't like them when I was younger but 'Murriel's Wedding' is a wonderful movie and I love how this girl finds so much comfort in this music. I do tend to join in, singing along to those songs when played in the movie (as my brother pointed it out to me!).
The singles are wonderful though I never got round to getting a collection as it really isn't needed.
― Julio Desouza, Friday, 21 June 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
I love it.
I don't love it. Dud.
― Roger Fascist, Wednesday, 31 July 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 31 July 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Clarke B., Wednesday, 31 July 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
― dleone, Wednesday, 31 July 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
As if that 'Can you hear the drums Fernando?' thing and the 'I Have A Dream' thing and the 'I Believe In Angels' dreck were not enough, someone further up the thread has reminded me of 'Thankyou For The Music' - AAAaaaarrrghgh.
I had to hear their drivel all through my teens, and working as a barman in a handbag- dancer nightclub during the last days of disco meant hearing all those 'classic' singles over and over again...But even if I'd never heard them before in my life, I would find them absolutely bloody dire - it's not just 'connections' stuff.The songs are just so..... so..... ersatz. They sound like things written for theatrical musicals about war, or like they've been commissioned for coachloads of pensioners to sing along to. I don't think I've ever heard a single note in any of their melodies that sounded like it couldn't have been statistically predicted. Their production/sound is so chintzy and schmaltzy and faux-classy, it's like being beaten to fucking death with a fool's-gold-plated wedding cake stand.
Kate, you are not alone - it just generally feels like it because they also seem to infect taste like some kind of lowest-common-denominator cultural virus : even Noise/Industrial music fans I know have Abba collections.
And I do think that all that rusty irony shit can't just be discounted either.
Oh, and RF - now that was a seriously enjoyable post...
― Ray M, Wednesday, 31 July 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 31 July 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
― alex in mainhattan, Thursday, 1 August 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Roger Fascist, Thursday, 1 August 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
The melodies - Money Money Money does sound like a show tune (intentionally, I would guess), but I don't see what you mean about the predictability of the melodies. There are some incredible twists and turns - I'd say that as writers and arrangers Benny and Bjorn are up there with the best ever.
Now Alex. What about this : **In my first dancing lesson we danced to Rasputin**
Well you'd have looked a proper charlie dancing to After The Bloody Goldrush, wouldn't you? Or Nick Drake? What's wrong with Boney M - 'Daddy Cool' has a fucking enormous bass-line - great record to dance to. Also Ma Baker. I used to dance to Boney M, Abba, Heatwave, The Supremes, The Specials, The Jam, The Sex Pistols and The Bee Gees within the same hour in 1978. And I still do given half the chance. This is turning into a rant now. I'm angry. Please don't take it personally Alex - I would buy you a dunkelsbier any day and even dance with you - but your musical world is nonsense. Abba are crap because of overexposure! In one or two years ALL MUSIC WAS LIKE IT!! WHAT! Soul music is crap because of falsetto vocals! Oh no!
Roger - you joyless, clueless fuckwit. I bet you're the po-faced, sneering, slightly smelly person in the corner with the Jim Morrison t-shirt. Aren't you?
― Dr. C, Thursday, 1 August 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
And as for the Jim Morisson T-shirt, I prefer a Brownshirt with jackboots.
I'm not a musician or musicologist so I can't comment on the predictability of melodies thing - except to say that if that was the case then why haven't there been more groups like ABBA? Predictability implies that making ABBA records must be easy but the list of other bands who've enjoyed anything remotely approaching their level of success with a similar sound is very small. Part of that was the fact that they appeared and flourished at a time when the singles charts were possibly less concerned with 'cool' than any other, so the show-tunes influence (for example) and the Swedishness didn't ring any cultural alarm bells.
I think ABBA's lyrics show flashes of greatness all the way through and from about '77-'78 onward are consistently marvellous.
I'm a bit surprised at myself for how much I love them and how my love for them continues to grow - they still seem to me the most perfect group, despite inconsistencies of output.
― Tom, Thursday, 1 August 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
― RickyT, Thursday, 1 August 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
I mean I say this as someone who likes a silly dance song or ten but, I don't know I'll never like Abba. Also I probably have subconscious prejudices about the 12 cd people who like them being fantastically happy and going to see Bjorn Again 3 times a year and living wonderful lives.
― Ronan, Thursday, 1 August 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
Great stuff while the initial buzz was still there but occasional radio/disco listening is as much ABBA as I need. So not quite classic because like the bunny in the Duracell ad they've run out of power while the best of Chic, EWF, Motown etc still motors on.
― ArfArf, Thursday, 1 August 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
Yay! You know you've finally arrived on ILM when someone says you're talking bullshit!What's that 'for the most part' mean, though, eh Dr C ? And the answer to your question is 'No' - because:(1) Indie feedback scenarios do nothing for me.(2) Don't worry, I too lost such childish 'rockist' (tm ILM) notions as 'more real' >20 years ago - it's just that I've never felt convinced that it was for the better. I acknowledge it's a lot more complicated than 'real' vs. 'fake', but you have to decide whether you're willing to lose the dimensions of dialogue that the belittling of such ideas, however crassly expressed, leads to. Aren't there areas of aesthetics which allow for the validity of these criteria? Or do you think that pop music should by definition be exempt?(3) I wasn't referring to the idea of Abba as 'fake' vs. Some Indie Noise as 'real' - I was trying to get across (perhaps badly) that they and their sound and their songs have to me a kind of representational efficiency <=> ideas/emotions/themes which is the audio equivalent of a fake tan. I'm not saying that I think all music 'should' have these affective/cognitive functions either, nor even that music which is popular and melodic and shiny necessarily has only 'ersatz' qualities (I find the Pet Shop Boys 'Rent' for example, to be quite a lucid musical/lyrical encapsulation of a complex set of feelings as well as a lovely wee tune with a sophisticated depth of production) - but I am saying that the idea of finding 'emotion' in Abba's songs (by which we don't usually just mean -'hey, this sounds like fun!') makes me think 'WTF?', in much the same way as imagining those for whom 'Lady In Red' is a rilly good love song...As for 'laughable' - yes such an attitude may well be so by our sophisticated standards. Or maybe it wouldn't be so much a laugh, as a snigger.
I used to dance to Boney M, Abba, Heatwave, The Supremes, The Specials, The Jam, The Sex Pistols and The Bee Gees within the same hour in 1978. And I still do given half the chance
Bet you get a bit more out of breath now though hahaAnd just where the hell were you going in 1978 that played all this? I was stuck with either Saturday Night CattleMarket 'Discos', or Saturday Night Fuckwit 'Punk/New Wave Discos'..... but then I didn't want to dance to either...
As for your final point, I would refer you to the post by Andrew L:I do hate the assumption that if you don't like ABBA (or their cohorts in evil, the Beatles) you're somehow anti-pop, anti-dance, anti-fun, whatever. You really don't have to be a musical elitist/purist to find ABBA cloying and annoying.
(Office Card: No - but it HELPS!! hahaha)
Tom - I can't back that melody thing up with any musicological analysis myself, cos I don't speak tadpole. It's just that I've never heard any sequence by them which sounded 'unexpected', there's never any sense of suspension/resolution in them - its just like one damn note after another...I think you have a good point about 'why not more Abba's if they were that predictable', I need to think about that a bit more, but maybe:Well maybe there have been lots more 'Abbas' - ref. Kate earlier.Time and place, like you said.The issue of being 'the original' group of that type.The stuff mentioned by dleone in his post.
I think this thread is great - the degree of polarisation it produced dug out all the criteria which people use to evaluate music, many of which are themselves the subject of dispute as to applicability - eg craft & skill, art vs. industry, functionalism, personal/social context, who else likes it, etc.I think that all kinds of things are relevant because they are made so by the surrounding culture - awkward, but everything counts. That's why its all so fucking personal and emotive and difficult and interesting.
― Ray M, Thursday, 1 August 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
To discos, nightclubs and people's houses.
**I think this thread is great - the degree of polarisation it produced dug out all the criteria which people use to evaluate music**
**eg craft & skill, art vs. industry, functionalism, personal/social context, who else likes it, etc**
Do you know what? I don't know why I love Abba. I don't know why I love ABC, The Human League, Joy Division, The Kinks, Chic....
I know *what it is that they do* that I like, but I don't know why I like what they do, at least in a way that I can sensibly analyse and articulate.
The polarisation around ABBA IS astounding, though. Ronan thinks it's too bubblegum, I think they're rather bleak. At least the later stuff is.
Alex - you didn't make me angry. Sorry if you thought that.
Bleak Bubblegum -- chew it and feel your spirit wither. (A cousin to Chunks of Sadness, Robert Smith's favorite chocky.)
There's a definite bit of nostalgia for loving Abba on my part in that, born in '71 and all, theirs was some of the first pop music I heard and recognized as such on the radio. "Dancing Queen" and "Voulez-Vouz" and all give me a basic rush and a fix, much like snoozerific hash such as "Escape (The Pina Colada Song)" also does -- but the latter just sounds like snoozerific hash, but ABBA still sounds perfectly sparkling and wonderful.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 1 August 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Dave M., Thursday, 1 August 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
― dleone, Thursday, 1 August 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
I think it's odd ABBA haven't got a younger audience among people who are into music, but on the other hand I think the number of those people who go back and investigate older pop music is generally quite low (the people talking on the Four Tops threads have been older than the ILM average I'd guess).
Also, bump.
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 13:07 (10 years ago) Permalink
The delights of ABBA are many..... from the perfect pop of hits like 'S.O.S', 'Knowing me Knowing You' and 'Take a chance on me' to the beautifully written, darker moments like 'The day before you came' (one of the greatest songs ever written), 'The Winner takes it all' (ditto) and 'The Visitors'.
It's a shame they're remembered more for their appalling campy dress sense than their incredible music talents - Andersson/Ulvaeus are easily up there with Lennon and McCartney for their staggering songwriting talents - moreso, in fact, in my humble opinion.
To even question Classic/Dud with ABBA is terrible. ABBA changed the face of music, and their legacy lives on.
Absolutely classic.
― russ t, Wednesday, 18 June 2003 13:51 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Chris Clark (Chris Clark), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 14:33 (10 years ago) Permalink
― russ t, Wednesday, 18 June 2003 15:16 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Sean (Sean), Monday, 15 December 2003 05:08 (9 years ago) Permalink
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Monday, 15 December 2003 08:51 (9 years ago) Permalink
― Sean (Sean), Monday, 15 December 2003 08:55 (9 years ago) Permalink
― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Monday, 15 December 2003 09:15 (9 years ago) Permalink
(They were always princesses to me)
― pete s, Monday, 15 December 2003 10:05 (9 years ago) Permalink
Just bought The Visitors for $5, absent the bonus tracks sadly, but remastered. Investigating their album tracks might be worthy of an ILM thread, actually...
― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Friday, 16 July 2004 16:47 (8 years ago) Permalink
― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 16 July 2004 16:49 (8 years ago) Permalink
― theodore fogelsanger, Friday, 16 July 2004 19:47 (8 years ago) Permalink
― dleone (dleone), Friday, 16 July 2004 19:57 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Maneating Leopards of India (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 1 August 2004 15:19 (8 years ago) Permalink
― aaronk (AaronK), Monday, 2 August 2004 12:33 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Josh Love (screamapillar), Monday, 2 August 2004 12:37 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Monday, 2 August 2004 12:39 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Maneating Leopards of India (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 08:21 (8 years ago) Permalink
Anyway!!!! I used to be like that, especially in the late 70s/early 80s when you couldn't switch on a radio or TV without hearing their latest number 1!!!! But even then, I liked the odd tune like "Knowing Me, Knowing You", "Name of the Game", "Eagle", "Voulez Vous", "Gimme Gimme Gimme" etc... And then some time in the late 80s Channel 4 showed "Abba- The Movie" in some graveyard slot, and I thought "Well, they did one or two good tunes, so I might as well give it a watch!!!!"... And I thorougly enjoyed myself!!!!! A much better concert movie than that pisspoor Led Zep "Song Remains the Same" thingie!!!! Bit ironic considering tha Zep at the time were the rock equivalent of Abba in terms of massive popularity and massive critical derision!!!!
Continuing the Zep connection, Abba even have an equivalent of "Hammer of the Gods" in the ace "Name of the Game", which is still one of my fave pop books!!!! (And it's co-written by Andrew Loog Oldham, for Cliff's sake!!!!!)
― Old Fart!!! (oldfart_sd), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 15:40 (8 years ago) Permalink
great column today, Tom
― Dominique, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 14:24 (6 years ago) Permalink
Yes, great article.
― baaderonixx, Wednesday, 20 June 2007 15:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
hmmm i'm going to suggest classic, because the girls could sing and when i feel in a certain frame of mind i'll put on the records and enjoy them.
faves: knowing me knowing you, gimme gimme gimme, fernando
― Charlie Howard, Wednesday, 20 June 2007 15:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
"The Day Before You Came" was one of their last flops, not one of their first ones; between "Waterloo" and "S.O.S." none of their singles hit big in Britain at all.
― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 20 June 2007 15:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
Good point Marcello.
Thanks Dominique and Baaderonix!
― Groke, Wednesday, 20 June 2007 15:27 (5 years ago) Permalink
'Dancing Queen' always struck me as one of the saddest hit singles ever. Partly because, yes, the "time of her life" is now, is gone. But also the knowledge that 30 years later, dancing queen is working at the post office in some provincial town listening nostalgically to 'Dancing Queen'.
― baaderonixx, Wednesday, 20 June 2007 15:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
As far as the lover/murderer equation goes in "TDFYC," the line "I never even noticed I was blue" probably tilts it in the "lover" direction, but of course lover and murderer could be the same person and the murder not necessarily physical - i.e. he came but now he's gone.
― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 20 June 2007 15:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
whoah.
i'd never thought about the murderer angle before! and tdbyc is in my top 5 abba tunes ever - it's always the one i bring out when people accuse them of being a shitty throwaway pop band or whatever.
great piece tom, kudos.
― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 20 June 2007 17:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
xpost
Blue = shade of a corpse, too.
― Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 20 June 2007 18:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
I just ordered The Visitors. I better like it.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 20 June 2007 18:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
I only recently heard the Yngwie Malmsteen version of "Gimme Gimme Gimme," and I have to admit, it induced some kind of post-traumatic stress disorder that's limited my ability to listen to ABBA.
― nabisco, Wednesday, 20 June 2007 18:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
The Visitors >>>>> ABBA Gold
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 20 June 2007 18:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
GOLD!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7539805.stm
Abba's greatest hits compilation Gold, first released in 1992, has become the oldest album to top the UK album chart. The record, which has made it to the top spot on four previous occasions, knocked Coldplay's Viva La Vida Or Death And All His Friends down to two.
― piscesx, Monday, 4 August 2008 02:34 (4 years ago) Permalink
This is a question? ;) The terms ABBA and Classic are almost interchangeable. Best singles band ever. They had an Olympian aura, when joyous the world feels lighter, more colourful and justified. When they explore sadness trees cry, the world turns grey, loss attains a mythical quality. My 3 favorite ABBA songs are 'Knowing Me, Knowing You', 'S.O.S.' and 'Chiquitita' (the outro always makes me misty-eyed, something to do with perfect childhood memories I guess).
I like ABBA fine, but this goes a bit far.
― Daniel, Esq., Monday, 4 August 2008 02:57 (4 years ago) Permalink
"Olympian aura" = proto-riot grrrl?
― velko, Monday, 4 August 2008 03:03 (4 years ago) Permalink
I don't think it even approaches ABBA's greatness
― I know, right?, Monday, 4 August 2008 11:35 (4 years ago) Permalink
Thank you for the music just came on the radio the second I pressed submit
― I know, right?, Monday, 4 August 2008 11:37 (4 years ago) Permalink
No Abba thread on HYS...
― Dingbod Kesterson, Monday, 4 August 2008 12:51 (4 years ago) Permalink
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/wingsounds1
!
― _Rudipherous_, Thursday, 24 December 2009 14:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
cover for her 'Beat It' CD:
― Dominique, Thursday, 24 December 2009 14:18 (3 years ago) Permalink
I mean... God bless these fucking guys right?
― piscesx, Sunday, 12 September 2010 03:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
Did "Summer Night City" ever get wide release as a 12 inch? Which sounds better, the 7 inch or its appearance on Greatest Hits Vol. 2?
― bamcquern, Sunday, 10 April 2011 16:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
The "previously unreleased full-length version" debuted on the box set.
― Handjobs for a sport (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 10 April 2011 17:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, with the string intro or whatever. I'm thinking of record fidelity. The greatest hits vol. 2 is one of those records with a lot of tracks on each side, and I think "Summer Night City" is on one of the inner bands (and I'm superstitious of inner bands because I always think of them as lower fidelity because they're smaller than outer bands - I think a lot of singles lead off on the outer bands). I have a source for the GH, but not the 7 inch. Sometimes 7 inches sound like ass, anyway. I thought a nice fat-grooved 45 rpm 12 inch of this song would be cool.
That is way too much information.
A side note: Waterloo the album kicks ass.
― bamcquern, Sunday, 10 April 2011 17:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
how is this thread so short?
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Sunday, 10 April 2011 20:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
Abba are great, what's left to discuss?
― ha ha ha ha jack my swag (boxedjoy), Sunday, 10 April 2011 21:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
i think it's cause we did so many other threads about them over the years. but yeah there's no debate is there.
― piscesx, Sunday, 10 April 2011 21:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
Summer Night City on Greatest Hits Vol 2 vinyl sounds great. That's the format that I have mostly experienced it in. Comparitively speaking, I can only compare it to some illegaly downloaded mp3 and I have to say it is superior.
― everything, Monday, 11 April 2011 07:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
Best Band Ever right?
― piscesx, Sunday, 19 June 2011 05:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah - i'm listening to them now
― the Sandalled Vandal (dog latin), Sunday, 19 June 2011 17:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
Looks like I was referenced early on here. Just saying... No... They aren't the best band ever. But they are still classic.
However, their best album was one that was among their least selling. Probably because they were seen as sort of old-fashioned and their brilliant take on the synthpop sound went unnoticed by those (well... like me...at the time, even) who should have been supposed to like it.
― Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 19 June 2011 17:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
Hardly a day goes by that I don't think about the chorus of "Angeleyes"
― corey, Sunday, 19 June 2011 17:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
also lol@
I FUCKING HATE ABBA.― kate the saint, Wednesday, April 18, 2001 7:00 PM (10 years ago)
― kate the saint, Wednesday, April 18, 2001 7:00 PM (10 years ago)
This kind of response to music is so alien to me. I don't understand it at all.
― corey, Sunday, 19 June 2011 18:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
I love "Angeleyes" too. I thought ABBA were new wave or something.
― Fog Fucking Hat (u s steel), Sunday, 19 June 2011 18:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
A couple of weeks ago I discovered a relative had a copy of 'ABBA Gold', and decided to borrow it because I hadn't heard it for quite some time (I don't own a copy of it, myself) - I'd always liked stuff like 'Knowing Me, Knowing You' and 'The Name Of The Game', but I'd never bothered to actually go and check out to see what their studio albums were like. So I did.
I found myself quite surprised with some of their stuff, but some of it was a little bit TOO sugary for me (and I'm a guy that considers himself to have quite the musical sweet tooth).
Nevertheless, of all of their albums I'd probably say that 1975's self-titled album impressed me the most - love the playing, singing, songwriting and production on that. The one that least impressed me was probably the "Voulez-Vous" album.
Oh, and "I'm A Marionette" kicks all sorts of ass.
― Turrican, Monday, 5 September 2011 18:18 (1 year ago) Permalink
The live version of I'm A Marionette from ABBA The Movie is superb.
― A little bit like Peter Crouch but with more mobility (ShariVari), Monday, 5 September 2011 18:33 (1 year ago) Permalink
Yeah, I was just watching that on youtube! Far more energetic than the studio cut, and just as bizarre!
― Turrican, Monday, 5 September 2011 18:41 (1 year ago) Permalink
yeah Abba The Movie is amazing innit. shame that 'Get On The Carousel' from the film was never put on wax.
― piscesx, Monday, 5 September 2011 18:48 (1 year ago) Permalink
Narrator dude on the live version is great: "She feels like... A MARIONETTE!!!"
― three word displayname (snoball), Monday, 5 September 2011 18:55 (1 year ago) Permalink
"I've Been Waiting For You" is so underrated as well - gorgeous ballad.
― Turrican, Monday, 5 September 2011 21:58 (1 year ago) Permalink
Where on earth has 'Summer Night City' been all my life? Such a tune.
― Chewshabadoo, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 16:44 (1 year ago) Permalink
I've never really been too keen on that one. Apparently even ABBA themselves considered it to be a bit of a weak song. 'I'm A Marionette' is still kicking my ass.
― The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 16:54 (1 year ago) Permalink
Summer Night City was inspired by The Bee Gees too according to the liner notes on the re-issue of the Voulez Vous album. "It never turned out as good as it could have been, there's something missing" says Bjorn and they deliberately left it off the album in the end. i like it. still baffles me why If It Wasn't For The Nights wasn't a single off that album.
― piscesx, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:16 (1 year ago) Permalink
Well, to me it's more of a 'track' than a song, perfect dancefloor/mixing material, with a really driving atmosphere, therefore to me it's their most disco.
― Chewshabadoo, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:26 (1 year ago) Permalink
Great song, Bjorn's wrong. #5 in the British charts, not exactly obscure either!
― Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Thursday, 10 May 2012 11:44 (1 year ago) Permalink
"WALKING in the moonlight"
― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 10 May 2012 12:44 (1 year ago) Permalink
Then Play Long finally reaches Abba: http://nobilliards.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/abba-greatest-hits.html
― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:06 (1 year ago) Permalink
Sunday morning reminder.
― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Sunday, 13 May 2012 08:00 (1 year ago) Permalink
The ABBA Session Band: http://felpin80.tripod.com/ata/id41.html
― My Elusive Memes (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 14 July 2012 14:38 (11 months ago) Permalink
The soundtrack of the movie, except it's more of a soundtrack of their own minds: http://nobilliards.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/abba-album.html.
― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Monday, 24 September 2012 11:13 (8 months ago) Permalink