Against Me! - New Wave

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No threads on this? Even though it was (shockingly) Spin's #1?

In any 1990s year there would be nothing to say about this album whatsoever, at least not while Hellcat Records was a viable indie revenue source, except that it's a damn meaty stadium-rock album.

After being beaten over the head with Sufjan Stevens, TV on the Radio and now Panda Bear, however, I'm extremely grateful for its existence. Not that I have anything against art-rock or poof-indie, it's just that the perfect guitar rock verse-chorus-verse album is becoming that increasingly rare thing.

I disregarded this band totally until I heard "Thrash Unreal." The other thing I noticed is that every single critic (or year-end) thgat I could find who loved it also loved Rilo Kiley's <i>Under the Blacklight</i>. That is very interesting to me.

kiss out the jams, Wednesday, 2 January 2008 19:07 (6 years ago) Permalink

I suck at html.

kiss out the jams, Wednesday, 2 January 2008 19:08 (6 years ago) Permalink

I didn't like Under the Blacklight, and New Wave is on my top 10 (#4 to be exact).

Mordechai Shinefield, Wednesday, 2 January 2008 19:48 (6 years ago) Permalink

2 years pass...

aw yeah

jihad mane (J0rdan S.), Monday, 5 April 2010 22:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

single off new album

jihad mane (J0rdan S.), Monday, 5 April 2010 22:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

not feelin the shoutin

ain't no thang but a chicken ㅋ (dyao), Tuesday, 6 April 2010 02:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

These guys are good at what they do (i.e. their songs are written in solid prose unencumbered by Green Day's American idiots and boulevards of broken dreams).

filling the medicare donut hole with the semen of liberal (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 April 2010 02:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah I've always thought they were pretty good lyricists in their sphere. the best show I've ever been to was an AM! show.

ain't no thang but a chicken ㅋ (dyao), Tuesday, 6 April 2010 02:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

New album is amazing. Love it more every time I hear it.

Mordy, Sunday, 25 April 2010 05:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

shit did it leak??

nabisco infiltrator (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 25 April 2010 05:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

few weeks ago. it really does it for me. such great amazing shit.

Mordy, Sunday, 25 April 2010 05:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

"I wake up in the morning and I drink from the fountain. / I wake up in the morning with the same unanswered questions. / I don't know what's going to cure my unsettled stomach."

Unsettled stomaches!

"Do you remember when you were young and you wanted to set the world on fire?"

Mordy, Sunday, 25 April 2010 05:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

total d-_-b

nabisco infiltrator (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 25 April 2010 19:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

"because of the shame" is an admirable and stirring "thrash unreal" redux

nabisco infiltrator (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 25 April 2010 19:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

"Suffocation"

Throwing Muses are reuniting for my next orgasm! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 25 April 2010 19:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

this is top ten for me (the album).

Throwing Muses are reuniting for my next orgasm! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 25 April 2010 19:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

They remember what it was like to be young, don't hesitate about sentimentalizing how they knocked down white crosses in graveyards, but don't forget for a moment that they're in a better place now.

Throwing Muses are reuniting for my next orgasm! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 25 April 2010 19:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah as much as I absolutely prefer their old stuff it makes me happy that they've found success.

dyªº (dyao), Monday, 26 April 2010 00:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

I love this band. They deserve to be huge. My favorite from White Crosses is Suffocation. The only band around now (besides Wire) who could make a catchy chorus out of "Modern life in the western world"

kornrulez6969, Monday, 26 April 2010 01:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

album art is pretty rad

imma sb (samosa gibreel), Monday, 26 April 2010 02:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

i liked this band when i was a teenager and when they were were teenage anarchists

imma sb (samosa gibreel), Monday, 26 April 2010 02:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

but when it came time to throw bricks through that starbucks windows
YOU LEFT ME ALL ALONE (all alone)

dyªº (dyao), Monday, 26 April 2010 02:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

always admired how that chorus is really clunky when you just say it but when tom powers through it it sounds like the most natural thing in the world

dyªº (dyao), Monday, 26 April 2010 02:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'll make my way back home to you
Head north on San Marco Avenue.

Mordy, Monday, 26 April 2010 06:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

this album is so good

after "because of the shame" my favs right now are "we're breaking up" and "high pressure low" (love how the "high pressure low" chorus keeps growing)

nabisco infiltrator (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 27 April 2010 05:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

mordy i remember now that you loved 21st century breakdown too

ibaka flocka flame (J0rdan S.), Friday, 30 April 2010 05:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol, yeah. I was just thinking how these albums are similar, tho 21st Century is way more theatrical (which is prob appropriate that Green Day is turning those songs into Broadway numbers) and this feels a lot rawer.

Mordy, Friday, 30 April 2010 06:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah totes -- "ache with me" is super 21st century breakdown tho & the pianos of "we're breaking up" feel that way too

ibaka flocka flame (J0rdan S.), Friday, 30 April 2010 06:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

the new Gaslight Anthem is striking me in a really similar way to this too

Mordy, Friday, 30 April 2010 06:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

we used to get high together / instead of getting high alone

Mordy, Friday, 30 April 2010 06:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

because of the shame i associate with vulnerability, i am numbing myself completely

Mordy, Friday, 30 April 2010 06:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

heard the teenage anarchist song; haaaated it

mookieproof, Saturday, 8 May 2010 11:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

I just watched the music video for it and thought it was dope also maybe MIA should watch it she might learn something

Did you in fact lift my luggage (dyao), Saturday, 8 May 2010 12:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

Weird.

Mordy, Friday, 21 May 2010 04:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah.

ksh, Friday, 21 May 2010 04:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

what is he even going to play?

jonathan blapelbon (J0rdan S.), Friday, 21 May 2010 06:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm really not into Against Me! suddenly playing a keyboard on all their tracks.

Mordy, Friday, 21 May 2010 06:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

ha right

jonathan blapelbon (J0rdan S.), Friday, 21 May 2010 06:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

The more I listen to this the more I like it... and I liked it right off the bat.

How is their last album compared to this? All I remember is that one single that sounded like Franz Ferdinand, which I quite liked.

rennavate, Friday, 21 May 2010 07:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

The one issue I'm having with this album is that the lyrics are so bleak. Like I've been turning on Gaslight Anthem a bunch because it sounds amazing and has a really warm feeling and the lyrics are vague enough to tune out when my attention is elsewhere. This Against Me! album tho is brutal. "Narrow visions of autonomy / You want me to surrender my identity," turning into this old man looking back on his more rebellious days when he was still full of life. Or "because of the shame I associate with vulnerability / i am numbing myself completely," which turns in the end into a death (the mother burying her kid), or the super depressing "We're Breaking Up" track where he's looking around his broken relationship and wondering what to do with their shared bands and shared friends. So generally I'd rather listen to something not so completely depressing - it's not half as good as something like Blue, but it's about as relentless.

Mordy, Friday, 21 May 2010 07:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

Well to me it's a lot about how this former teenage anarchist is dealing with being 30 (or nearly 30), realizing he can't be that kid anymore. But yeah, a lot of it's bleak shit. Is that so bad, though?

rennavate, Friday, 21 May 2010 07:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

No, I mean, it can be great. I think the new album is really powerful. But I don't always want to be in that headspace, and it transmits affect really effectively.

Mordy, Friday, 21 May 2010 07:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Terrific album.

Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 11 July 2010 23:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

yes

the resulting pussy stubble (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 11 July 2010 23:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

Why do me and J0rdan like the same rock albums all the time? Is there some reason that Against Me! and Titus Andronicus appeal to AUTOGOONS in particular?

ᵧₒᵤᶫᵒSᵉ (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 12 July 2010 00:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

J0rdan, do you like Torche too?

ᵧₒᵤᶫᵒSᵉ (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 12 July 2010 00:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

Are we talking about White Crosses or New Wave? Not that it really matters. They're both excellent.

The new one doesn't have anything as epic as Thrash Unreal, but it's probably more consistent overall. The only problem with New Wave for me was side 2 was not nearly as good.

kornrulez6969, Monday, 12 July 2010 00:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

I had NO idea the Against Wave cult reviles White Crosses (check out the Amazon reviews). How is it so bloody different -- except they've gotten better at what they do?

Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 12 July 2010 00:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

Against Me's fans turn on them with every album iirc

ᵧₒᵤᶫᵒSᵉ (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 12 July 2010 00:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

ha, i was gonna say, i thought they turned on them after "new wave"

the resulting pussy stubble (J0rdan S.), Monday, 12 July 2010 00:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah whiney idk why we both dig the same rock albums -- add my chem & 21st cent breakdown to the list

the resulting pussy stubble (J0rdan S.), Monday, 12 July 2010 00:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

Titus Andronicus & Torche are heavier than shit like Broken Social Scene w/o being as heavy as something like, I don't know, Mastodon (to pick an example of popular metal stuff)

ksh, Monday, 12 July 2010 00:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm gonna make a thread about it so we don't clog up this one

ᵧₒᵤᶫᵒSᵉ (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 12 July 2010 00:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

that torche is really sweet, for some reason i always thought they were some baroness type metal

the resulting pussy stubble (J0rdan S.), Monday, 12 July 2010 00:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

whiney there's already a thread about this sort of rock album -- mordy started it

the resulting pussy stubble (J0rdan S.), Monday, 12 July 2010 00:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

maybe this isn't exactly what you were thinking tho

Post-Boss American Shades of Working Class Rock Music Thread

the resulting pussy stubble (J0rdan S.), Monday, 12 July 2010 00:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

focuses more on gaslight anthem i guess, no idea if you like them

the resulting pussy stubble (J0rdan S.), Monday, 12 July 2010 00:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

Oddly enough, or maybe not, but the last two Against Me! albums are my favourite of theirs. This probably says alot about my tastes.

rennavate, Monday, 12 July 2010 04:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

ohhh man, as a huge early AM! fan I am listening to this right now. I didn't care for their last couple but the first song on this gave me goosebumps.

like a ◴ ◷ ◶ (dyao), Tuesday, 13 July 2010 13:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

'white crosses' is such an anthem, I can't get past it every time I put the album on

love the way he says "home-to-you" and "av-uh-nue"

really wanna go to an AM! show and jam to this

like a ◴ ◷ ◶ (dyao), Wednesday, 14 July 2010 11:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

Well to me it's a lot about how this former teenage anarchist is dealing with being 30 (or nearly 30), realizing he can't be that kid anymore. But yeah, a lot of it's bleak shit. Is that so bad, though?

― rennavate, Friday, May 21, 2010 3:17 AM (1 month ago) Bookmark

cursory feeling is not only can he not be that kid anymroe, but he realizes how... windmill-tilting it all was? "politics were too convenient" - he's wiser, has perspective from which to evaluate and condemn his past actions, but is still waiting for some new ideology to replace it - "looking for context and perspective, looking for some kind of distraction" - and his old impulses keep returning to fill the void...

Mordy OTM about how bleak lyrically this album is, probably because I feel like I am at a similar place in life these guys are

like a ◴ ◷ ◶ (dyao), Wednesday, 14 July 2010 12:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

"with my name tattoo'd into your skin" and later, the reverse-shot: "with your name tattoo'd into my skin"

despite the sentiments proffered, love how vulnerable the song makes tom seem.

like a ◴ ◷ ◶ (dyao), Wednesday, 14 July 2010 12:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

thing is, I don't think he's quite closed off that chapter of that life yet. he doesn't have as much distance from that period as he would like himself or you to believe. "I've got no judgment for you/come on an ache with me." he's exhausted his veins, but he's still open - if someone were to come along and revitalize his prior leanings, I don't doubt he'd join in.

like a ◴ ◷ ◶ (dyao), Wednesday, 14 July 2010 12:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

This record is an absolute monster. Now my favorite is Spanish Moss.

kornrulez6969, Monday, 26 July 2010 02:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

HIGH PRESSURE LOW

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 11 August 2010 05:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

There's just no future left for us to dream of
Living in an era of instability
So caught up in the culture of their rivals
Fear breeds in honest men
It's a high pressure low
It's a high pressure low

like, this is the fucking shit here

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 11 August 2010 05:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

as a chorus

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 11 August 2010 05:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

My favorite part of that song:

Would anyone forgive Robert McNamara?
In retrospect he had to admit;
There was mistake in going to war without first asking all the questions.
Yes, Robert Strange McNamara,

Yes, Robert Strange McNamara

Mordy, Wednesday, 11 August 2010 06:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

want to get up and dance & sing along to this even though I'm at work

dayo, Wednesday, 25 August 2010 06:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's probably my favorite record of the year so far. Right now my favorite is Spanish Moss. Hard to believe this record doesn't have its own thread, but it's too late now.

To me, this band is so much better now than they were starting out.

kornrulez6969, Wednesday, 25 August 2010 13:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

What god doesn't give to you, you've gotta go get for yourself

Mordy, Wednesday, 25 August 2010 14:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

still one of the best

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 October 2010 20:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yessir.

sandra lee, gimme your alcohol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 20:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

no fuckin joke

zorn_bond.mp3, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 21:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

Were supposed to be doing a UK tour next month until it was cancelled with no explanation. Hope all is well with them.

James Mitchell, Friday, 29 October 2010 06:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

Best record of 2010. It's kind of lame that it doesn't have its own thread.

kornrulez6969, Friday, 29 October 2010 13:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

I just saw the video for "Teenage Anarchist" thought it was excellent. Lyrically better than anything in its class that I've heard.

Lazarus Niles-Burnham (res), Thursday, 16 December 2010 13:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

10 months pass...

"You're getting messed up with the wrong guys/You're getting messed up on the wrong drugs/Sometimes your body takes you places/That you didn't really plan on goin" has always struck me as a very Craig Finn-y line. The whole song in its way has that classic rock feel to it, but that line sounds like it coulda come right off Separation Sunday.

new rap guy (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 7 November 2011 17:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

also the high note on "they don't know nothin about redemption" always makes me lose my shit

new rap guy (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 7 November 2011 17:26 (3 years ago) Permalink

hoos did you ever get into early AM!

ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Monday, 7 November 2011 17:32 (3 years ago) Permalink

I like Eternal Cowboy a lot but Axl Rose still hasn't really grabbed me yet

new rap guy (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 7 November 2011 17:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

also i think i want to send the lyrics to "piss and vinegar" to everyone on the occupydc discussion list

new rap guy (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 7 November 2011 17:35 (3 years ago) Permalink

man hoos I feel like I don't know you anymore

ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Monday, 7 November 2011 17:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

this is actually my favorite against me! record

maybe i am wrong to interpret "borne on the fm waves of the heart" as a song about social anxiety disorder but it is sincerely the best song about that, if it is

mutant slow drum (BradNelson), Monday, 7 November 2011 17:37 (3 years ago) Permalink

man hoos I feel like I don't know you anymore

― ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Monday, November 7, 2011 5:36 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

lol how u mean

new rap guy (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 7 November 2011 17:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

maybe i am wrong to interpret "borne on the fm waves of the heart" as a song about social anxiety disorder but it is sincerely the best song about that, if it is

― mutant slow drum (BradNelson), Monday, November 7, 2011 5:37 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

yah i've always heard it as kinda "summer lovin" + s.a.d.

new rap guy (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 7 November 2011 17:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

hah as an early AM! fan I always felt that the band peaked with axl rose - when eternal cowboy first came out man you would not believe the backlash

it's only with white crosses that they've been winning me back

so to hear you rep for everything except the classic!

*moshes by myself*

ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Monday, 7 November 2011 17:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

yah nah i mean

i kinda came up on nasally anarcho-folk like david rovics and the people who turned into riot folk so i kinda got my fill of the folk-beat kinda thing, even if it was plugged in? idk

new rap guy (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 7 November 2011 17:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

all that said, thinking about david rovics has made me wanna hear him again and goddamn as sorta annoying he can be with his bathos (how many songs about dead palestinian kids do you need?) and his weird al-esque voice, hearing stuff like "berkshire hills" and "we are everywhere" is really fucking me up with the way the sentiments about struggle are landing close to home.

new rap guy (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 7 November 2011 18:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

hey hoos do u fuck w/ folks like Robert Hoyt and Jim Page too?

I recently went on a big early Against Me kick, I love that Crimethinc EP w/ "Les Paul cursed my dirty callused fingers"

sleeve, Monday, 7 November 2011 18:04 (3 years ago) Permalink

crimes as forgiven by?

the early acoustic EPs are maybe my favorite AM! product

ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Monday, 7 November 2011 18:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

^ used to listen to this in college a lot and it just got me all choked up at my desk

new rap guy (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 7 November 2011 18:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

really I'm just surprised that tom can sing after so many years of touring. he must have vocal chords made out of six pack plastic rings.

ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Monday, 7 November 2011 18:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

oh yah dayo you're right about the name, don't know why I thought it was on Crimethinc label.

sleeve, Monday, 7 November 2011 18:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

wow didn't really expect AM to get ILX love. This has made me happy.

owenf, Monday, 7 November 2011 18:19 (3 years ago) Permalink

Acoustic EPs are great btw

owenf, Monday, 7 November 2011 18:20 (3 years ago) Permalink

hey hoos do u fuck w/ folks like Robert Hoyt and Jim Page too?

i have never heard of these dudes! but will have to check them out fo sho

new rap guy (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 7 November 2011 18:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

I never heard of this band until New Wave. The earlier stuff sounds like an entirely different band. I like the slick radio-friendly version of the band infinitely better than the acoustic songs about anarchists.

kornrulez6969, Monday, 7 November 2011 19:46 (3 years ago) Permalink

6 months pass...

Very, very happy with the positive response to this. Good on her, good on Against Me! fans.

poxen, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 04:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

From the Against Me! forum, i.e.:

I am so so so proud of her. As soon as I read the article I ran downstairs and told my transgender sibling to google the article, and then we hugged and yelled (because this is so fantastic and yaaay). It's so important that everybody, I mean everybody here who cares about her to be unwavering in our support and not let anyone get away with any bullshit.
I am literally the happiest person. I love her so goddamn much.

poxen, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 04:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

+1

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 05:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

very cool, I saw a headline at some mainstream news site before I realized what this revive was about.

sleeve, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 05:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

Bold, brave move and I applaud it. And I'm glad initial fan reaction is warm.

Still, Against Me! is absolutely not my bag.

Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 05:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

the status update via queer bashback that i caught this on was "good for you. you're still a fucking sellout." puro smh

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 05:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

guilty lol @ that

Simon H., Wednesday, 9 May 2012 06:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

this made my day! awesome all around

dayo, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 10:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

maybe my fav AM! song ever? maybe their most intimate, and that's no easy feat

dayo, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 12:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wow. That is truly surprising.

I tried getting into their early music, can't do it. But I love the last 2 records, the slick radio-friendly ones. I wish more bands would sell out that well.

kornrulez6969, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

I guess the lyrics to "The Ocean" stuck with me, because my first thought after hearing this was

If I could have chosen, I would have been born a woman
My mother once told me she would have named me Laura

So finding out she's naming herself Laura is neat.

C-L, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

good on her!

the status update via queer bashback that i caught this on was "good for you. you're still a fucking sellout." puro smh

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, May 9, 2012 5:39 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark

this is fucking hilarious, i love it.

c sharp major, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 14:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

I guess the lyrics to "The Ocean" stuck with me, because my first thought after hearing this was

/If I could have chosen, I would have been born a woman
My mother once told me she would have named me Laura /

So finding out she's naming herself Laura is neat.
--C-L

I'd never caught those lines before, wow. Was also thinking that in the context of a struggle for gender identity "against me!" has much richer (sadder?) meaning.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 14:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

loved the last two records also (white crosses more or less to death); this is rad.

their private gesture for bison (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 16:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

My buddy used to be their drummer. I've hung out with TG/LJG a number of times and never had any idea. Courage and love to her.

kate78, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 16:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

I love New Wave and White Crosses (my roommate loves the first three LPs) - this is the best news I've read today.

twinkin' and drinkin' and ready to fly (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

especially glad to see that most AM! fans are responding with support. The Rolling Stone comment thread was iffy at points but generally good, too.

twinkin' and drinkin' and ready to fly (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

What's hitting me really hard today is the bridge of 'I Was a Teenage Anarchist'. They got so much flack for selling out without anyone really talking about why the scene/movement can be actively alienating.

'the scene got too rigid' 'narrow visions of autonomy / you want me to surrender my identity / I was a teenage anarchist / the revolution was a lie' often got read as alienation from politics but it speaks really strongly to ways in which radical/anarchist/etc. spaces aren't necessarily queer or trans friendly (or safe spaces for people who aren't white) - not that they never are, and Against Me! Have always been part of the progressive/lefty wing of punk but still... The spaces and music of not explicitly queer punk code white and male and straight.

twinkin' and drinkin' and ready to fly (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

a lot of their songs read as queer so these developments make sense

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

xp hadn't thought about that either, really enlightening point.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

just having another discussion today about how lgtbq folks have felt alienated from certain ostensibly radical spaces locally, that connection seems to make it really clear tho

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

still baffled that this scene still trucks with notions of purity.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

well from where i'm sitting its less a question of the generalized punk 'you sold out when you signed to a major' than the specifically politically-driven 'you became a part of the entertainment-industrial complex, which means you have shitty politics,' and for people who thought their relatively marginal politics had found a voice in their early music, i imagine that betrayal might have cut a little deeper.

coming as i have from their latter stuff into their earliest stuff i tend to love it all sort of irrespective of politics.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

i want to smash them all!

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

like MRR's injunction that people slash the tires of their tour van while they gigged always struck me as an especially personal form of attack--you're really gonna make the people in this touring band buy four new tires?--but the viciousness of it makes a little more sense if its understood as a reciprocal counterattack to the emotional gutpunch of their shift away from "the scene." not excusing it, obv, just trying to understand it.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's weird how little I care about this

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

is it? go on

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

all you people who love the last two albums but dont have any love for what came before bum me out

dayo, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

sell outs

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

just inasmuch as it made me realize that being transgendered ceased being interesting/controversial/worth commenting on, for me, like over a decade ago.

xp

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

all you people who love the last two albums but dont have any love for what came before bum me out

― dayo, Wednesday, May 9, 2012 6:04 PM (48 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

btw i feel the need to confess to you that the acoustic ep is basically all i listen to now

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

can't wait for shakey to go in every single thread on new answers and update us on whether he cares about the topic or not

congratulations (n/a), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

thought process

* open thread
* think "this is not interesting enough to be worth commenting on"
* comment on it anyways

congratulations (n/a), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

:) xxp

dayo, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

yr welcome

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

christ shakey

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

for me 'baby, I'm an anarchist' and 'I was a teenage anarchist' are really bookends for AM!'s career arc imo. so much compressed maturation and wisdom between those two songs.

can't begrudge them for signing with a major or even for signing with fat wreck back in the day - puro's are so weird to me imo

The spaces and music of not explicitly queer punk code white and male and straight.

― twinkin' and drinkin' and ready to fly (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, May 9, 2012 1:42 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark

this it otm btw, so much of the scene reads like "I was rejected by the dominant culture so now I'm going to carve out my own space where I get to impose my own rules and culture on"

dayo, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

go into the gay thread less than 24 hours after the NC marriage amendment and be all "well gays and marriage ceased being interesting after The Birdcage"

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

LBGTQ movement can stop dead in its tracks - shakey finds it all normal and ho-hum, no further progress needs to be made

dayo, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

well, that isn't really what I meant. I meant this made me realize what a weird bubble I live in. ie, a bubble filled with transgendered people.

but whatever carry on

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

should i watch the birdcage btw

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

that makes it more of a big deal that it occurred in a bubble as tight as this woman's.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

yes, hoos!

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

Shakey, I don't think anyone here is commenting on the article because they find the notion of being transgendered strange, I think people are commenting because they recognise the social and institutional discrimination that transgendered people face, and are heartened by the fact that someone prominent in music has been able to go through this and find support from their fans.

emil.y, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

I get all that. would be strange to me if she DIDN'T get support from her fans tbh.

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

trying to recall the last time someone's music career was damaged by coming out of the closet, much less transgender (admittedly the instances of the latter that I'm familiar with involved local acts and OutpunK/Oly-scene folks)

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

by the way, fuck tom breihan:

http://stereogum.com/1026761/against-me-frontman-to-change-genders/news/

Well, here’s something I don’t think anyone saw coming. Tom Gabel is the frontman and founder of Against Me!, one of the best punk bands currently in existence. But he isn’t going to be Tom Gabel much longer. He’s currently planning to begin living as a woman, and he’s changing his name to Laura Jane Grace. This is apparently a real thing. More below.

Rolling Stone reports that Gabel is planning to start taking hormones and undergoing electrolysis soon. He says he’s been living with gender dysphoria for years and that he (she, I guess?) feels the need to talk openly about it, since no major rock figures have done this before. Gabel’s wife is apparently entirely cool with this: “For me, the most terrifying thing about this was how she would accept the news. But she’s been super-amazing and understanding.”

So: Good for her? I guess? My main takeaway from this, beyond the obvious surprise, is that I’m hoping Gabel’s hormone treatments won’t change her inimitable bleat of a voice.

dayo, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

well that is quite the reaction isn't it

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

doing a lot of guessing there lol

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

jesus fn christ

madame boo berry (donna rouge), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not sure how much his follow-up comment makes a difference:

After 20 minutes of reflection, I feel sort of bad that my tone in this post is more “WHUT?” than “YAY,” especially considering how much I like this person. But then again, “WHUT” is, I think, a perfectly understandable instant reaction.

emil.y, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

IF ONLY THE ENTIRE WORLD WAS AS ENLIGHTENED AND LITERATE AS ILM

Poliopolice, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

So: Good for her? I guess?

this comes off as pretty shitty, regardless of if your first reaction is being surprised

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

"WHUT" is a perfectly understandable instant reaction for straight white dudes with little tg experience who barely dug to the Against Me albums they loved so much (hell, I'm basically one). Posting your instant reaction on a semi-professional news website is less so.

da croupier, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I think that's my main problem with that post - even if your reaction is "WHUT" it isn't an appropriate way of writing about it.

emil.y, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah i mean i shared the link with just a "!" because i was surprised by the news but didn't want to try expressing that surprise in words bcz i knew there was no way to do it well

i guess breihan didn't have that compunction

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

bcz i knew there was no way
i would
do it well
off the bat

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

How nice that selling out enables her to afford such an elaborate operation.

billstevejim, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

My excuse for missing the heads-up in "The Ocean" is that, the way New Wave is paced, I'm done by "Americans Abroad."

da croupier, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

if you save up long enough, maybe you can get an operation that allows you to go fuck yourself

xp

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also "Born On The FM Waves" is one of the awesomest songs of the 2000's.

billstevejim, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

xp I meant that in the most supportive way possible while still frustrated at my own uninsured situation..

billstevejim, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

her inimitable bleat of a voice.
her inimitable bleat of a voice.
her inimitable bleat of a voice.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

people are apparently really having trouble expressing their support without coming off as total d-bags!

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

Stereogum dude is more of a d-bag than me. I'm happy for Tom Gabel and I'm not sure why I immediately thought of health insurance.

billstevejim, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

esp when you presumably don't know what his situation is, aside from being an ex-sire recording artist

da croupier, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

How nice that selling out enables her to afford such an elaborate operation.

There wasn't any mention of surgery. Just female hormones and electrolysis.

kornrulez6969, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

my mistake! i take it back.

billstevejim, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

i def hear the uninsured concern

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

health insurance rarely pays for sex change operations

Poliopolice, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

my city's health plan started paying for those a decade ago for city employees

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

but you live in San Francisco. That's not typical at all.

Poliopolice, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'm curious whether they pay for cosmetic surgeries as well (which many might argue this is)

Poliopolice, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

what's up poliopolice

dayo, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ah shit, yeah, I didn't even think of the American thing. Over here you can get operations on the NHS if you've lived as the other gender for about three years. Though apparently the process can be incredibly frustrating.

emil.y, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 20:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

unfamiliar w/ band, but looks like he was a cute boy so pourin' one out.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 20:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

inimitable bleat of a voice

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 20:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

she was, sorry

xp

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 20:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

this is the first cool thing about against me, that's for sure

good for her!

Bandersnatch Cumberbund (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 20:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh m@tt when will you know the joys of Reinventing Axl Rose

I think this is awesome.

sleeve, Thursday, 10 May 2012 13:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Over here you can get operations on the NHS if you've lived as the other gender for about three years.

honest question: how do you prove this?

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 10 May 2012 13:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

you show your paystubs

Poliopolice, Thursday, 10 May 2012 13:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

I would recommend reading the columns A Transgender Journey by Juliet Jacques - it's a personal account, and obviously people have different experiences, but it's very well written and covers a lot of the bases of what you need to go through.

emil.y, Thursday, 10 May 2012 13:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

trying to recall the last time someone's music career was damaged by coming out of the closet

How's Ricky Martin these days?

i love the large auns pictures! (Phil D.), Thursday, 10 May 2012 14:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Clay Aiken doing OK? I think so, right?

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 10 May 2012 14:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

Martin came out in 2010 (way later than he should have imho) well after his career had peaked and he'd basically retired.

Aiken's on Broadway iirc, where they don't tolerate homosexuals

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 15:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

Martin's coming out so late into his career slough is precisely what was wrong.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 May 2012 15:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

how about the village people?

Poliopolice, Thursday, 10 May 2012 15:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

what about them?

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 16:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

what's up Poliopolice

dayo, Thursday, 10 May 2012 16:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

were they ever even IN the closet to begin with? that was 35 years ago, and even 5 yo me knew they were gay.

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 16:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Martin's coming out so late into his career slough is precisely what was wrong.

yeah his gay following was huge, I doubt it would have damaged his career to come out sooner - probably would have boosted it tbh

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 16:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hey Dayo! How's it hanging?

Poliopolice, Thursday, 10 May 2012 16:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ted Haggard seems to have lost a lot of followers

Poliopolice, Thursday, 10 May 2012 16:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

unfamiliar w/ band, but looks like he was a cute boy so pourin' one out.

Hate to admit it, but this was sort of my first thought too.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Thursday, 10 May 2012 16:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

and how was Ted Haggard's music career going pre-outing?

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 16:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

That photo of Tom and his wife is cuet.

poxen, Thursday, 10 May 2012 16:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

How's Ricky Martin these days?

― i love the large auns pictures! (Phil D.), Thursday, May 10, 2012 7:25 AM Bookmark

his album last year debuted at #3, so quite alright

The Reverend, Thursday, 10 May 2012 18:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

my co-columnist at the voice actually wrote something pretty informative recently about how no out gay artist has never had a #1 album in the US: http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2012/05/adam_lambert_gay_pop_star.php

some dude, Thursday, 10 May 2012 18:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

stop dividing the LBGT community by preferring Rufus Wainwright's music, ship!

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 May 2012 19:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

interesting piece (i'm not finished with it yet) but that little factoid kinda says more about how charts are weird than about homophobia in the record-buying public imho

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 19:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol alfred

some dude, Thursday, 10 May 2012 19:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

for ex:

On the male side, Boy George's self-declared status as America's favorite drag queen (about as far as a pop star could go publicly in 1984), didn't hurt Culture Club at all on the Hot 100, where they scored six Top 10 hits including a No. 1 ("Karma Chameleon"). But despite selling four million U.S. copies, 1983's Colour by Numbers spent a frustrating six weeks at No. 2, a reflection mainly of its misfortune at being released within the same year as Michael Jackson's Thriller.

xp

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 19:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah i'm not saying that stat in and of itself is a huge thing, nor does CM's column to be fair, but i was surprised to hear that Elton's string of #1s ended almost immediately after he came out, had no idea.

some dude, Thursday, 10 May 2012 19:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah there's no question CBN would've been a #1 album otherwise

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 May 2012 19:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

this is kind of a silly tangent as to whether it's brave commercially of a punk rock singer to come out as transgender. it's just brave of a person, i don't care if you're "used to it" or not.

da croupier, Thursday, 10 May 2012 19:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

which, frankly, strikes me as really bizarre. I mean, I have that record and it's pretty good but it is so strange that something that goofily arty and day-glo and obviously gay was such a huge success. it's a very odd combination of styles - calypso/reggae, R&B croon, synthpop - delivered in neonized sub-Harlequinade drag queen package ... just, why did this appeal to huge swathes of America? did it tie into some club med fantasy people liked to indulge in or something?

xp

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 19:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

The timing of Elton's fall made for irresistible speculation, but I wonder if the slow change in the pop climate had something to do with it too: the Hot 100 was moving towards disco and disco-inflected pop in 1976 and 1977, and Blue Moves was out of step[/i] (it doesn't explain the debacles of the disco-inflected A Single Man or the Thom Bell-produced Victim of Love, of course). My other question is how fast word traveled about Elton's RS admissions. How many kids and boomers read RS in the late seventies? Was the subject discussed on "Nightline" or something?

There's also the quality of the music. Elton had recorded spotty albums but few of the albums b/w 1976 and 1982 boasted one memorable single. He admits to being burned out at the time and it shows. His imperial period, to quote the Pet Shop Boys, had ended.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 May 2012 19:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

which, frankly, strikes me as really bizarre. I mean, I have that record and it's pretty good but it is so strange that something that goofily arty and day-glo and obviously gay was such a huge success. it's a very odd combination of styles - calypso/reggae, R&B croon, synthpop - delivered in neonized sub-Harlequinade drag queen package ... just, why did this appeal to huge swathes of America? did it tie into some club med fantasy people liked to indulge in or something?

These images and tropes signified as "New Wave" and played exceptionally well on MTV. Also, the songs were damn good and fully deserved hits.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 May 2012 19:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's like the amorphous sexuality of UK glam transferring over to America a decade late (see also Prince, MJ etc).

xp

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 19:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah I'm not knocking the material on CBN. some of it is beyond silly but there are def hooks there.

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 19:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

Speaking as a guy who didn't have MTV until the late nineties, I heard Culture Club hits beside Men at Work, Matthew Wilder, and Lionel Richie and didn't notice anything amiss; they all played with "island" rhythms.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 May 2012 19:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

maybe disco's success had dislodged America's sexual mores enough to allow less traditionally gendered artists to come through via New Wave

xp

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 19:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

ahhh Matthew Wilder

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 19:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

maybe disco's success had dislodged America's sexual mores enough to allow less traditionally gendered artists to come through via New Wave

MTV.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 May 2012 19:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

suddenly English nancy boys in pirate makeup singing over glam chords and disco bass lines were acceptable

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 May 2012 19:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, Haircut 100 was huge on MTV (speaking of vaguely tropical)

biggie smallclothes (brownie), Thursday, 10 May 2012 19:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

How's Ricky Martin these days?

― i love the large auns pictures! (Phil D.), Thursday, May 10, 2012 7:25 AM Bookmark

his album last year debuted at #3, so quite alright

― The Reverend, Thursday, May 10, 2012 2:26 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ha, well I guess I got PWNED,

i love the large auns pictures! (Phil D.), Thursday, 10 May 2012 20:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

ha, i thought that was a genuine question

The Reverend, Thursday, 10 May 2012 20:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

he is rich enough that he is playing CHE in EVITA on BROADWAY

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 10 May 2012 20:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

the role of Evita was taken

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

What a weird piece, that VV-thing. Because my god, how many gay artists have had huge singles in America, number one or otherwise? What kind of strange standard is the elusive number one album? And certainly there have been acts so flamboyant that I'd surmise their heterosexuality made no difference to homophobes. Like, were there homophobic Prince fans who were all, yeah, he sings high and dresses in black panties, teases with "am I straight or gay?" but he's totally not gay, so he's OK?

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

Did Judas Priest fans turn their back in the band when Rob Halford came out?

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

he is rich enough that he is playing CHE in EVITA on BROADWAY

― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Thursday, May 10, 2012 3:49 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, May 10, 2012 4:00 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the role of Evita was taken

― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, May 10, 2012 4:04 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

o_O

congratulations (n/a), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

Did Judas Priest fans turn their back in the band when Rob Halford came out?

Halford came out well past their commercial peak. And then left the band (I forget which came first, this was around the same time...?) He's an interesting case tho. Certainly now it's no problem, they're rightly revered as "metal gods".

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

I was about to make Shakey's joke tbh

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

What kind of strange standard is the elusive number one album?

I think CM is approaching it as a matter of trivia more than anything.

Carrie Antwoord (jaymc), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

I dont think there's any way to link an artist's gayness with their chart success, especially using whatever strange science is at work in that piece. If anything it seems like a lot ("a lot") of artists, at least "rock" artists, come out when their career has already slowed or faltered, which definitely imparts the illusion of failure.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

What about Bowie? He came out early in his career -- he go tit out of the way, so to speak. It certainly caused American critics to view him with suspicion for years.. Not only is he a chameleon, but he's queer.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

Bowie's one of the only cases I can think of where a straight guy tried to pass himself off as gay AS A CAREER MOVE

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

Brandon Flowers, in his luckless way, has tried.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

What about Pete Townshend? What about Brett "I'm gay but I've never had a gay experience" Anderson?

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

Certainly the Depeche Mode guys, hetero though they may be, didn't exactly make an effort to macho themselves up.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

Cross-genre here, but Jean Claude van Damme was always open about courting gay fans.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

didn't duran duran brag about letting guys suck them off because they got bored with women doing it? or is this a sixth-hand bit of rumor/mythmongering

goole, Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

It is now!

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

I heard that Duran Duran used to brag about letting guys suck them off.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

I saw an EMP talk once about how back in the day Elton despised Bowie because the latter was this straight guy playing gay and critics were eating it up while Elton was stuck in the closet and not getting anywhere near the plaudits. Supposedly "Bennie and the Jets" was a lyrical dart aimed at Bowie.

The Reverend, Thursday, 10 May 2012 22:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

would LOVE to read bitchy Elton attacking Bowie

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 May 2012 22:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not sure critics ate it up in America. The tone of many of his reviews was suspcious.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 May 2012 22:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Bowie's failure to break America early in his career is pretty legendary

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 22:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

altho don't think I've read much criticism of him from the time, apart from Bangs'

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 22:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

Diamond Dogs was his first top five album in the States, two years after the impact of his "coming out" had waned.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 May 2012 22:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

You may be aware of the fact that neither of them are Americans.

The Reverend, Thursday, 10 May 2012 22:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

But ... but .... Young Americans ....

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 10 May 2012 22:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

You may be aware of the fact that neither of them are Americans.

British = fruits?

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 May 2012 22:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Bowie's one of the only cases I can think of where a straight guy tried to pass himself off as gay AS A CAREER MOVE

Wasn't this Brett Anderson's thing? But I guess it's different in the UK, where Erasure had... what, FOUR consecutive #1 albums?

poxen, Thursday, 10 May 2012 23:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Suede were ignored here, alas.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 May 2012 23:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

Brett Anderson was also quite clearly using Bowie as a playbook. worked about as well in the US for Suede as it did for Bowie lol

xp

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 23:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Anyway this is all kind of beside the point, she's a transwoman, not a gay man, and I think the super-positive reaction about her 'coming out' is more a reflection of the fact that being trans is (as I perceive) more difficult for the uninitiated to parse than "gay" or "lesbian"

poxen, Thursday, 10 May 2012 23:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah we got kinda off-topic a bit

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 23:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm just happy to see a public entertainer with gender dysphoria speaking plainly and candidly about it in the media. It's not really _new_ that there are trans (or gender-queer) people working in entertainment, but I think this openness creates a more positive space and I hope it becomes the norm

poxen, Thursday, 10 May 2012 23:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

Man, I was looking for country singer Rae Spoon's coming out article(s)-- Rae identified as transman in the early 00s but now they identify as gender-neutral-- sadly they've been whisked away off the internet.

poxen, Thursday, 10 May 2012 23:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

learned how to play 'reinventing axl rose' today

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 11 May 2012 00:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Rae is fucking awesome. Point final.

twinkin' and drinkin' and ready to fly (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 11 May 2012 00:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

Brett Anderson was also quite clearly using Bowie as a playbook. worked about as well in the US for Suede as it did for Bowie lol

worked less well because Bowie sold millions of records in American and got two #1 hits

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 11 May 2012 01:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

British = fruits?

― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, May 10, 2012 3:41 PM Bookmark

Naw, just trying to point out the British press is probably much more relevant to that conversation than the American press you automatically jumped to.

The Reverend, Friday, 11 May 2012 01:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

well, I think I was clear about distinguishing between his coverage (and sales) here and the Yoo Kay.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 11 May 2012 01:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

I see the band is touring with the Cult (um) this summer. I wonder how long is Tom planning to tour as Tom? And will she continue to tour as Laura? Will she tour in Against Me! or is that the end of the band?

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 11 May 2012 13:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

i guess that will become clearer soon, the RS.com blurb ends with:

The full story of Gabel's transformation is in the latest issue, on newsstands this Friday (May 11th). In it, the singer tells Josh Eells about her history of gender dysphoria, the specifics of the transition process and what becoming Laura Jane Grace will mean for the future of Against Me!

some dude, Friday, 11 May 2012 14:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

If anybody can fit the phrase gender dysphoria into a lyric, it will be Laura Jane Grace.

kornrulez6969, Friday, 11 May 2012 14:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

i read the full story the other day, it said he plans on performing as a woman when they go on tour at the end of may

J0rdan S., Friday, 11 May 2012 16:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

wait nevermind, i misremembered -- she talks in the piece about performing onstage as a woman, but i guess there are no solid plans

it does say that she plans on being on hormones by the time they go on tour at the end of may

J0rdan S., Friday, 11 May 2012 16:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

The pitchfork post on the story includes a live YouTube vid of Gable solo (with long hair!) doing a new track called "Gender Dysphoria Blues." would link, but I'm on my phone.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 11 May 2012 17:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

Halford came out well past their commercial peak.

Halford came out repeatedly AFAIK, the first I ever heard of Judas Priest was in a "heavy metal primer" in Smash Hits, which casually mentioned he was the only out gay in metal

┗|∵|┓ (sic), Saturday, 12 May 2012 00:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

J0rdan S., Monday, 9 July 2012 22:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

awesome

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 11 July 2012 02:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

aw

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 11 July 2012 02:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://youtu.be/35xd5OzEqro

Performing 'The Ocean' live in Colorado. The sheer look of joy on Laura's face around 1:10 when she hits the second verse is so incredible.

twinkin' and drinkin' and ready to fly (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 11 July 2012 02:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

(And the cheers from the crowd at those lines.

twinkin' and drinkin' and ready to fly (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 11 July 2012 02:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

Better recording:

twinkin' and drinkin' and ready to fly (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 11 July 2012 02:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

7 months pass...

i was totes going to buy tickets to this. i'm glad i waited:

Against Me!
BAD RELIGION TOUR CANCELLATION
Unfortunately we have to cancel all of our appearances scheduled for the upcoming tour with Bad Religion and Polar Bear Club.
Canceling a tour is definitely not a decision we would make lightly. At this moment, due to our current uncertainty over who is going to be playing drums with us, we feel like we are lacking the ability to put on the show our fans deserve and we think that the best thing for us to do right now is take some time to regroup and finish a record.
Our most sincere apologies to Bad Religion, Polar Club and all of the agents and promoters involved with the tour but most importantly to the fans who were coming out to see us.
If anyone who bought tickets doesn't want to go to the show now or walks away from the show feeling disappointed we'll definitely do our best to accommodate some spots on our guest list next time we pass through your town, which hopefully won't be too long from now.
Sincere apologies. - Against Me!

Mordy, Monday, 4 March 2013 20:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

Huh. Cool.

steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, 2 June 2013 00:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

HOOS are you coming around to reinventing axl rose??

乒乓, Saturday, 15 June 2013 11:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

Oh yeah dude, around late winter last year it became my favorite

steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Saturday, 15 June 2013 14:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Mordy , Monday, 15 July 2013 14:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

badass

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 15 July 2013 15:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

this is temporarily available for free download at their website right now http://www.againstme.net/

both songs are great

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Tuesday, 16 July 2013 00:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

excited!!

乒乓, Tuesday, 16 July 2013 00:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

also i was sort of worried about the status of the proper record bc they lost both their bassist and drummer recently but apparently they've finished recording it

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Tuesday, 16 July 2013 00:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah i'm kinda skeptical that this is coming out

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 16 July 2013 00:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

乒乓, Tuesday, 16 July 2013 00:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

saw them at riot fest last weekend, it got really emotional. if the rest of transgender dysphoria blues is as good as the new songs they played it'll be a really important record to me. in like a deeply personal way

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Tuesday, 17 September 2013 19:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

always extremely jealous when someone gets a chance to see them live

anticipating the hell out of the new record

乒乓, Tuesday, 17 September 2013 19:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

Same here. I played White Crosses a few weeks ago and was shocked anew by "Suffocation."

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 17 September 2013 20:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

found a decent live video of "transgender dysphoria blues"

the lyrics are incredible

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Tuesday, 17 September 2013 20:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

you want them to notice the ragged ends of your summer dress
you want them to see you like they see every other girl
they just see a faggot
they hold their breath not to catch the sick

rough surf on the coast, i wish i could've spent the whole day alone with you

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Tuesday, 17 September 2013 20:31 (1 year ago) Permalink


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