Similar bad band names, catchy angular indie pop, some hype building.
Discuss
― Craig sobeski, Sunday, 18 November 2007 07:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
As a band, they're less irritating than Arctic Monkeys, but their hype may become so unbearable that I want to break their kneecaps.
― Johnny Fever, Sunday, 18 November 2007 07:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
their CD-R is one of the 15 best records of the year.
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 18 November 2007 08:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah this lolindie nob i know's always going on about them. But he's young.
― W4LTER, Sunday, 18 November 2007 08:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
Okay thoughts on the album:
- It's really good, in ways I hadn't anticipated and maybe can't quite articulate yet.
- The reason they are really good is nothing to do with the 'ZOMG! They are mixing indie punk with African and Irish music!" Emperor's New Clothes nonsense present in all the hype. If anything, these moments are brief flourishes and nothing more. And once again it shows how low collective expectations of new guitar bands have become, that if one shows any evidence of knowing what to do with a rhythm section then it suddenly beocmes a huge selling point.
- The moments when there ARE African or Irish influences prominent in the music threaten to teeter over into atrocious Sting/Paul Simon territory but never actually do so. Possibly because the band understand the value of RESTRAINT.
- This sense of restraint is maybe why Nick Southall might have been right all along. Compared to most of the other overhyped rock records of the last few years, this one feels so... tidy! You listen to any haircut indie of the past through years, starting from The Killers and through Bloc Party, the Arctic Monkeys, The Klaxons and Los Fucking Campasinos and there's just sonic clutter everywhere. The Vampire Weekend album hardly puts anything anywhere that doesn't need to be there, and that feels refreshing and crisp - cf the bass and drums at the start of 'Campus'. Ironically this is exactly what I would have attacked The Strokes for in 2001.
- It's bubblegum pop grown up a few years, with exactly the same concerns dressed up differently, isn't it? "I see you walking across the campus..." is the sort of timeless girly chorus you'd expect to hear in any pop record of the last few decades. Production-wise, it sounds like that as well, and yet I don't even remotely hold that against it...
― Matt DC, Sunday, 27 January 2008 00:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
- "Blake's got a new face!" is a Pixies chorus.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 27 January 2008 00:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
I've been hearing this band hyped up since the beginning of 2007. "lisen to them now, they're ognna be then ext big thign!" basically on anything with words printed on it in NYC.
and, here we are. Kinda predictable.
― burt_stanton, Sunday, 27 January 2008 02:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
I really like them! Mind you, "Graceland" is one of my favourite albums ever, and I'd be happy if they veered more in that direction. They're very good live, too - definitely aware of how to put on a good show and involve a crowd.
― toby, Sunday, 27 January 2008 03:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
If they don't become huge I'll be pretty disappointed.
i kinda <3 them and i dont care who knows - thats right ilx i have a crush on a blogrock band
― jhøshea, Sunday, 27 January 2008 03:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
they're great! i had no idea until december or so.
― sean gramophone, Sunday, 27 January 2008 03:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
I saw them and they sucked. There was one good part but it was really bland. Real thin sound especially juxtaposed with animal collective
― Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Sunday, 27 January 2008 04:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
i totally totally <3 them
"Blake's got a new face!" is a Pixies chorus.
it's a quasi-reinterpretation of "One." i love the afrobeat-thrash section.
― gabbneb, Sunday, 27 January 2008 04:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
Every description of them I hear makes me feel I won't like them, yet the people who like what I like like them, so I guess I should listen to them.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 27 January 2008 04:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
I've come around on them bigtime, and no longer want to break their kneecaps regardless of how hyped they get.
― Johnny Fever, Sunday, 27 January 2008 05:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
I just saw them on MTV. I think it's some pretty boring stuff... I mean, the good thing is, they kind-of sound like the Feelies, but ... that's what, an almost 30 year old sound? Indie rock = zzzzzzcity baby.
― burt_stanton, Sunday, 27 January 2008 06:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 27 January 2008 07:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
sample youtube comment: "english beat is kinda gay though"
― whatever, Sunday, 27 January 2008 08:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
it's true about the strokesian tidyness - it gives the refined impression of them being all fresh and not a part of the modern music industry merry-go-round, when really just like the strokes they are arriving at pretty much the perfect cynical marketing time for their sort of thing.
anyway i kinda liked some of their songs to begin with until i got dragged along to see fucking darjeeling limited and realized that these guys are the same reprehensible bullshit in audio form. they EVEN use the same FONT.
― r|t|c, Sunday, 27 January 2008 09:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
god forbid.
― gr8080, Sunday, 27 January 2008 10:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
I would like "A Punk" if it was something Jonathan Richman or whoever did twenty years ago, but because it's new I think it sucks.
― Bodrick III, Sunday, 27 January 2008 12:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
Great point.
― Noodle Vague, Sunday, 27 January 2008 12:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
Nice street-teaming from "Craig sobeski" too upthread. KEEP IT UP GUYZ
Thanks, man.
― Bodrick III, Sunday, 27 January 2008 12:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
SHIT IS DEEP
― Noodle Vague, Sunday, 27 January 2008 12:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
Stream the new album here: http://3voor12.vpro.nl/luisterpaal/
Fuck the hype. This album kicks ass.
― brightscreamer, Sunday, 27 January 2008 14:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
got dragged along to see fucking darjeeling limited and realized that these guys are the same reprehensible bullshit in audio form
this
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Sunday, 27 January 2008 14:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
Why listen to A-Punk when you can just put on some late 70s/early 80s shit? I think that's a valid argument--is it good if it's just a reinterpretation of the acknowledged classics? It's like rock music has been raiding the crypt for a while now, and it seems like electronic music is doing the same. Remember. .. when there were -new- sounds, maaan?
― burt_stanton, Sunday, 27 January 2008 15:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
― Noodle Vague, Sunday, 27 January 2008 15:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
I loved Darjeeling Limited! Any other recommendations?
― brightscreamer, Sunday, 27 January 2008 16:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
― gabbneb, Sunday, 27 January 2008 16:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
classical, jazz, reggae, rap---it's all old and been done before! I like "A Punk"'s mesh of old-school punk pop with a touch of Congolese guitarwork, even if it is not completely brand new and innovative.
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 27 January 2008 20:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
Xgau on the Dead in 69: If rock is nothing but gut appeal contained within what Mickey Hart calls the "box" of the four-four beat, then the Dead no longer care primarily about making good rock. But if rock is music that makes you dance, then they may make the best rock of all.
― gabbneb, Sunday, 27 January 2008 21:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
I don't care about the lack of innovation so much, it's the endless production line of rinky-dink skiffle bands being hyped to death that annoys. Especially if they've got a gimmick like "sounding a bit like Graceland".
― Bodrick III, Sunday, 27 January 2008 21:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
britishes
― gabbneb, Sunday, 27 January 2008 21:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
i surprisingly like this. kind of a lot
― jaxon, Sunday, 27 January 2008 21:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh they're total rushmore music. total wes anderson soundtrack. but im ok with that
― s1ocki, Sunday, 27 January 2008 21:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
i find it much harder to argue for vampire weekend's brilliance than for their awfulness -- the music is quite deliberately free of jagged edges or anything that may offend the ear (save for the singer's occasional yelping, which he really doesn't need to do because his voice is actually pretty good!), which is what i suppose people are finding 'refreshing' about it, but i am finding it hard to get excited about. it's certainly not terrible by any stretch of the imagination, just ... why is this supposed to be SOOO GOOD? do i really have to experience it 'in context' and listen to a thousand other bands that dont sound like VWE and dont have clean production? why can't i just put it on my stereo and like it? nb obviously context is important blah blah blah it just seems like people keep praising them negatively -- "i like them because they DONT sound like other stuff that's been released in the last 5 years in NYC!" it's not like there's a bunch of layers waiting to be uncovered on this record, so what am i missing that makes them so revolutionary? is the fact that they dont sound like they're from aughts NYC the only thing they have going for them? if they are to be appreciated on their own merits (and i agree that the 'african sound' hype is a red herring) then what exactly are they, besides not sounding cluttered?
i am asking these questions honestly and not trying to sound like a douche
― uptown churl, Sunday, 27 January 2008 21:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
ok, is it a youthful, quirky/not quirky andersonian innocence that causes people to enjoy them? nostalgia for one's college days?
― uptown churl, Sunday, 27 January 2008 21:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
the music scene in NYC has been so desperately dead since 2002 or so that I think people are grasping at whatever they can get. All the former big NYC bands this decade have moved to Philly, Berlin, etc; even small shitty towns in CA are kicking NYC's ass creativity wise.
In correlation to NYC's butt-raping rents? Perhaps.
― burt_stanton, Sunday, 27 January 2008 21:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
there's a pretty big element of escapism involved w/ their music that i like
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 27 January 2008 21:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
and beyond all the graceland stuff, the drummer and bassist are pretty good and way better than you'd expect from these dudes (best evidenced on "boston"). if anything i get annoyed by the singer/plinking keyboards, but when i'm in the mood i think they're pretty exceptional
as for other people liking them, it seems pretty clear to me: they sound kinda like the strokes, are pretty indie-pop but with enough unknown influences (for mtv-type listeners) to get ppl excited
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 27 January 2008 21:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
"boston" = "ladies of cambridge" - maybe they used the former title in the UK?
sorry if you don't get them, hate fun, etc. lol, they're gonna be hueg.
― gabbneb, Sunday, 27 January 2008 22:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol "hueg"
― Noodle Vague, Sunday, 27 January 2008 22:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah idk "boston" was just what i had it labeled as on their cd-r
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 27 January 2008 22:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
i hear a big spoon influence in the band, certainly the biggest indie-rock touchstone. love the way their restraint means that moments of splendid harmony or rhyme shine just doubly triply quadruply, the smallest flourishes gleaming so glow.
― sean gramophone, Sunday, 27 January 2008 22:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
You know as much as these guys aren't a great band, I'm glad to have someone this omnipresent doing something a little interesting than another four guys pretending to be Pavement or Talking Heads.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Sunday, 27 January 2008 23:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
fuck these motherfuckers
― da croupier, Sunday, 27 January 2008 23:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
fucking fuckers are guarandamnteeing a Northern Exposure revival or some such shit
― da croupier, Sunday, 27 January 2008 23:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
"oh, if only paul simon would YELP."
― da croupier, Sunday, 27 January 2008 23:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
blurhgg. the more I hear this album the more I realize how boring and bland it is. It makes my blood turn into lukewarm oatmeal. I listen to it and I suddenly own a condo walking distance to Park Slope and I drive a Volvo.
It's a pretty sad testament to the state of NYC. 99% of the interesting bands have already bailed out of here, so this is what we've got left.
― burt_stanton, Sunday, 27 January 2008 23:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
ILM should learn how to have fun.
― brightscreamer, Sunday, 27 January 2008 23:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
sex, drugs, new, weird sensations and experiences, upsetting challenging ideas... that's fun. listening to the drywall-flavored music made by the blandoids who've come to dominate NYC and drive out all the really good bands/artists/writers/etc. isn't my idea of fun.
― burt_stanton, Sunday, 27 January 2008 23:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
There are like two big x factors with these guys. First, the singer may be a pretty great pithy lyricist at a time when a lot lyrics are wordy and overwrought. Second, I have no idea how seriously they take themselves and I kind of like that about them. They way they make being in a band seem really easy is kind of obnoxious-but-charming. I think I may want to like them more than I actually like them.
Anyways, what good bands have left NYC? All I can think of is Liars, but a ton of bands that put out well regarded albums in the last two years are still there.
― call all destroyer, Monday, 28 January 2008 00:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
remember when vampire weekend drove all the good bands and writers out of new york??
― s1ocki, Monday, 28 January 2008 00:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
do not let vampire weekend into your city.
― gr8080, Monday, 28 January 2008 00:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
Liars, Animal Collective, Enon (well, a few years ago they were good), etc. Think of a really cool NYC band in the past few years, look 'em up, and chances are they're probably now based in Baltimore, Philly, Berlin, or the West Coast.
I hear better stuff coming out of Sacramento these days than New York.
― burt_stanton, Monday, 28 January 2008 00:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
the album is good, but i wish there was no hype for this,cause it's ruin it.
― Zeno, Monday, 28 January 2008 00:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
I dunno, Dirty Projectors, Battles, The Hold Steady, LCD Soundsystem, Oxford Collapse, Mahogany, some portion of !!!....TVOTR, Lansing-Dreiden. We could argue about the merits of particular bands but that's all stuff I enjoyed in the last two years that's still NYC-based.
― call all destroyer, Monday, 28 January 2008 00:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
Williamsburgh to be specific
― Zeno, Monday, 28 January 2008 00:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
Nah, the Dirty Projectors dude is in Bed-Stuy.
but yeah, that'd be my counter argument. I mean, what's next after these bands, though ... kids moving to Brownsville and East New York for the cheap rents? It just feels like the new exciting stuff is skewing to the cheaper cities and suburbs, just like over the past few years its gone to the cheaper neighborhoods in the outer boroughs.
― burt_stanton, Monday, 28 January 2008 00:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
Mr. Stanton, you have convinced me to stop listening to Vampire Weekend.
― gr8080, Monday, 28 January 2008 01:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
Yeah I agree with you on the next wave....NYC's had a pretty great run over the last 6-7 years but these things are always cyclical. American indie rock seems like it's sort of in a state of flux everywhere and it's hard to say where the next big geographic center will be...LA maybe?
― call all destroyer, Monday, 28 January 2008 01:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
the chicago days were nice..
― Zeno, Monday, 28 January 2008 01:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
This just in! Artists and band members can't afford to live in high rent areas. Move to cheaper areas
― jaxon, Monday, 28 January 2008 01:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
*BREAKING* New York, NY- Notorious indie upstarts Vampire Weekend put the sum total of New York's cool artists on a train to Auschwitz, says angry music fan Burt Stanton.
― brightscreamer, Monday, 28 January 2008 01:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
stop talking about this shit and talk more about how Vampire Weekend suck
― da croupier, Monday, 28 January 2008 02:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
why do people say they sound like the feelies when they mean they dress like the feelies
― da croupier, Monday, 28 January 2008 02:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
Hot Hot Heat coulda totally stole their thunder if they'd released a cover of "Day-O" last year
― da croupier, Monday, 28 January 2008 02:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
haha keep 'em coming
― gr8080, Monday, 28 January 2008 02:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ivy League indie rock with unfashionable influences T/S: Vampire Weekend vs. Bishop Allen?
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 28 January 2008 03:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
burt santond etc it shouldnt really be so hard to trash this band - shape up!
― jhøshea, Monday, 28 January 2008 04:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
i have heard better insults coming out of modesto!
all the good hating has moved to portland!
― jhøshea, Monday, 28 January 2008 04:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
-- brightscreamer, Monday, January 28, 2008 1:56 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link
lol
― s1ocki, Monday, 28 January 2008 04:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
you think they'll ever achieve the heights of say, "Nothing But Flowers"?
― da croupier, Monday, 28 January 2008 04:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
new york is so uncool. im' totally moving to berlidelphia, maryland
― burt_stanton, Monday, 28 January 2008 04:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
my favorite is M79, even if it's a shameless "This Must Be the Place" rip
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 January 2008 05:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
this band is boring but i haven't listened to them enough to really say anything other than that but to all haters distill your haterade to victory-ol and triumph!!
― trashthumb, Monday, 28 January 2008 06:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
arcade fire were the first successfully blog hyped bland, no? and we have the arctic monkeys. who else?
― jhøshea, Monday, 28 January 2008 12:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
nabisco's review v. cheekily invokes the sfj piece re: palpable basslines a bit of empty space. i lol'd.
― fukasaku tollbooth, Monday, 28 January 2008 13:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
I will bake fresh, delicious cookies for the first reviewer that mentions Lizzy Mercier Descloux instead of <i>Graceland</i>.
― Telephone thing, Monday, 28 January 2008 13:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
...and some day I will remember which boards use HTML and which use BBCode.
― Telephone thing, Monday, 28 January 2008 13:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
pitchfork are joining the party big time (8.8)
― Zeno, Monday, 28 January 2008 13:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
ah this promises to tun into one of the all-stars classic ILM threads
― baaderonixx, Monday, 28 January 2008 14:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
FFS, I even read an enthusiastic review of this album in yesterday's Financial Times week-end supplement.
― baaderonixx, Monday, 28 January 2008 14:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
worst party ever
xpost
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 28 January 2008 14:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
Well, it's the most instantly appealing album I've heard in a very long time, so it's entirely possible that I might be sick of them in 6 months' time. Best make the most of them while I can, then.
They could be the Arctic Monkeys of 2008 in terms of "Butbutbut they happened WITHOUT MY PERMISSION!" outraged bluster - but that's a strictly localised phenomenon, right?
― mike t-diva, Monday, 28 January 2008 14:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
but srsly the afro-pop groove plays nicely w/sensitive white boy rocking - dont know why its still a novelty
― jhøshea, Monday, 28 January 2008 14:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
the new single doesn't really do it for me
― blueski, Monday, 28 January 2008 14:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
ive only heard the 10 song cdr
― jhøshea, Monday, 28 January 2008 14:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
whereas Paul Simon's last 45 was SLAMMIN xp
― blueski, Monday, 28 January 2008 14:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
[ban me] gave the first Bloc Party album an 8.9, so the praise for this album feels slightly muted
― da croupier, Monday, 28 January 2008 15:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
sorry, NABISCO. I didn't realize using the first name of the writer of an article on Pitchfork could get me banned, sorry!
Can I type the word Jess? Scott?
― da croupier, Monday, 28 January 2008 15:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
hmmm
well this is amusing
― da croupier, Monday, 28 January 2008 15:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
[nabisco] louis jagger
― jhøshea, Monday, 28 January 2008 15:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
waht u can write louis jagger now? this is an outrage!
― jhøshea, Monday, 28 January 2008 15:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
[nabisco] [ban me]
what happened was someone fucking w/[nabisco] or something?
― jhøshea, Monday, 28 January 2008 15:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
I wasn't the proto-Jagger: that thread get revived, and someone (Heave Ho?) kept pasting in my name, and at some point I think mods decided it was easier to just put on the Jagger-filter than keep coming back and snipping it out. At this point it would probably be safe to remove the filter and just go back and clean up the thread.
― nabisco, Monday, 28 January 2008 17:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
in my head i keep hearing "ban me" as "marry me" a la maebe funke.
― Jordan, Monday, 28 January 2008 17:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
every thread on ILX about a new "indie" band or movie should start with the wikipedia article on the narcissism of small differences
― max, Monday, 28 January 2008 17:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
Well, here's one non-small tension you inevitably see between the criticism and the message-board talk: critics have some level of responsibility to talk about whether something's good at what it does, while message-board haters can lay in slams about what it doesn't. There was a line that wound up getting cut from the end of that Pitchfork review, saying that criticizing Vampire Weekend for not being dirtier or bloodier or more progressive is "like having someone cure Alzheimer's and complaining that she should have done cancer instead." One of the parts where this band wins is that they're very convincingly good at what they do do.
(P.S.: It is 100% true that Bloc Party's review should not have a higher rating than this.)
― nabisco, Monday, 28 January 2008 17:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
what they -do- do well is be boring, bland, and beige. so, they do succeed very well at that.
― burt_stanton, Monday, 28 January 2008 17:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
It's rare indeed that I find myself nodding in agreement with a Pfork review, but I thought you did an excellent job there, N.
― mike t-diva, Monday, 28 January 2008 17:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
do reviewers give the ratings at pfork?
― Mr. Que, Monday, 28 January 2008 17:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
did anyone catch them on the tour going on right now? they are comming by me next month....worth checking out?
― gman, Monday, 28 January 2008 17:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
Yes, although editors sometimes do get in their ear about that along the way. And obviously we'll often get an idea of what someone wants to say about a record before assigning it to them.
― scottpl, Monday, 28 January 2008 18:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
heard the whole thing now, for my sins, and i'll stand by the first 3 tracks; then well, i dunno if 'cape code etc etc' is meant to be winsomeley self-deprecating or whatever with the benneton and "unnatural, peter gabriel" refs but it sounds unbelievably smarmy whichever way, and the chamberpop thing after that is just vile and everything you suspected. after that the rest doesn't recover.
yeah i don't know why i'm on this thread either. can we get on with the tweeo walcott gags already or what?
― r|t|c, Monday, 28 January 2008 18:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
Koenig is a detail guy Koenig is a detail guy Koenig is a detail guy Koenig is a detail guy Koenig is a detail guy
GOOD WORK NABISCO
― r|t|c, Monday, 28 January 2008 18:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
(Ha, yes, to be clear: my saying the Bloc Party should be lower was a mea culpa, not an insinuation that it was anyone else's doing.)
(P.S. I love how suddenly in the last week this record has started bring amazing moral judgments out of people who don't enjoy it, accusations that these are bad people for making ... lyrically inoffensive peppy pop music. Which is something I was half-expecting, because the whole thing is that this band seems actively HAPPY, which will read to people they annoy as being smug and superior. This is kind of strange: if they came off less tidy and shiny and pleased with themselves -- if Koenig seemed miserable or something -- I imagine they'd get less of this reaction, which is kind of insane.)
xpost - I have no idea what what means but thank you?
― nabisco, Monday, 28 January 2008 18:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
The type of afro-pop that they're jacking has always seemed a little corny and rhythmically dull to me, so I've got no interest in a whitened up version + indie pop.
― Jordan, Monday, 28 January 2008 18:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
the whole thing is that this band seems actively HAPPY
which is offensive to pretty much the whole indie rokk value system of the last 10 years
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 January 2008 18:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
You know "I Know What I Know," off Graceland, where it talks about the cinematographer's party and the Fulbright scholarship? I get the feeling that Vampire Weekend think that's REALLY FUCKING CLEVER to mix uptown intellectual horseshit (see "Oxford Comma") with afrobeat. This is why people think they're smug. I just think they're young. If these guys are under 25, I'm gonna give them benefit of the doubt.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 28 January 2008 18:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
hmmm [banh mi]
― Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
Whiney, what "intellectual horseshit" is in "Oxford Comma?" It's a song picking on exactly the kind of smugness/privilege stuff people accuse VW of having, which I suspect Koenig was conscious of whenever he wrote it.
― nabisco, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
xposts
I love how suddenly in the last week this record has started bring amazing moral judgments out of people who don't enjoy it, accusations that these are bad people for making ... lyrically inoffensive peppy pop music.
Ha! I am all too familiar with people making those kinds of judgments. They are heretics, theirs is a false theology, and it will cast them into perdition.
― St3ve Go1db3rg, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
I get the feeling that Vampire Weekend think that's REALLY FUCKING CLEVER to mix uptown intellectual horseshit (see "Oxford Comma") with afrobeat.
yeah, I can't imagine uptown intellectual horseshit just coming naturally to some Columbia grads or their authentically being really into 'afrobeat' or anything
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
i mean, it's not like one of them was a summer intern at the OED
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
they should NOT be themselves
the only thing I don't like about 'em is the music is so god awfully boring, and boring shit makes me angry. I think people might resent them because they're Ivy League kids in NYC who've obviously had really comfortable, easy lives, and to a lot of people struggling in NYC that = grhuargargg. Reminds me of the Strokes backlash of 02.
― burt_stanton, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
i don't know whether i should be amused or bemused about the extent to which people are willing to regard this whole thing as intensely calculated. these are dudes who play songs based on a self-mocking-horror flick the singer essayed on a lark.
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
xpost - (This is what I meant about Cheever and playing it both ways, obviously: he can act skeptical and incisive about prep privilege from right within its ranks.) (Note that that's not any kind of surprising new trick -- actually I'd say its most frequent use is on rap records.)
Really curious what the "intellectual horseshit" is, though; all we know is it's allegedly located in the one song that actually pretends to be anti-intellectual! ("Who gives a fuck about an Oxford comma?")
xpost Burt you've posted like 15 times "this is boring, I'm bored now," which is ... boring, I'm bored now; plus in the grand scale of things it's really hard for me to suss out how having gone to Columbia is somehow just beyond the line of objectionability, as opposed to the million NYC indie kids who went to Oberlin or Brown but wear dirtier-looking clothing so it's not an issue.
― nabisco, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ivy League kids in NYC who've obviously had really comfortable, easy lives
Is that obvious? I don't know these dudes' bios, but I don't think everybody who goes to Columbia obviously has had a really comfortable, easy life. I guess it depends on what your basis of comparison is though.
― St3ve Go1db3rg, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
Oh, I didn't know that. That's interesting.
My statement is more about why people don't like em, which is more about perception than fact anyway
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
i really feel like i want to hear this now, i liked the yeasayer album. bring on the benetton, i say. white dudes imitating peter gabriel and kate bush is better than... other options
― gff, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah, I take 'Oxford Comma' as an anti-manners song (at britishes' expense, which I would think, but in a sorta Jane Austen manner). While I guess it does literally attack a class-pretender, overall it's attacking the pretense of class - a relax, we're all in this together, er, vibe.
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
the yeasayers album I like a little better. the oxford comma thing is probably more about the writing/publishing/journalism types in NYC... over here some people prefer it, some don't, and there's always a debate on whether to use it or not. it'd be like a song about em dashes.
― burt_stanton, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
Who gives a fuck about an Oxford comma? I climbed to Dharamsala too I did I met the highest lama His accent sounded fine to me, to me
I mean, how great is that?
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
Not very.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
well I done bin told
I think it's pretty good for a kid of modest pretension. So's the kumbaya of "No excuse to be so callous; Dress yourself in bleeding madras; Charm your way across the Khyber Pass."
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
dress yourself in bleeding madras?????????
― Mr. Que, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
This is what I've been saying forever: lost in the hyperbole of message-boarding is the fact that not everything is going to be the best thing ever or the worst thing ever. It should still be OK for people to form bands and write some songs without being microanalyzed for their background, influences, and agenda. The PFork review captures this sentiment perfectly.
― call all destroyer, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
I donwloaded this off Derek ages ago but have only just, prompted, vanity-style, by Matt DC's mention of me in his post way up where, got around to listening to it. And I like it. Nicely organised! Haha, it is very sweet, and spacious, and gentle. It's just... music? I wouldn't listen to it for the sake of it being "afropop". I'd listen to it because it's got some great sounds and melodies and rhythms and vocals. Nice strings, too. (Looking at it in Audacity, there's shitloads of space. Niiiiiice.) I'm gonna go and buy a real copy of this, and without fear. The brevity of the songs stops it veering full-on into Paul Simon / Peter Gabriel / Sting wankywank. I think. It's just good odd-pop, aye? The lightness of touch is what confirms it to me as pop.
― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
Low expectation havin' motherfuckers.
― Bodrick III, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
Actually, to be fair to Whiney, I should note that the one clear indie "intellectual" streak to Koenig's writing is that he definitely exists in a collegiate space of references to history and geography and information about the world, as much as information about the life that's right in front of you: serial commas, the Khyber Pass, the Mansard roof and the admiralty, kefir on keffiyehs, etc. Which is totally natural for someone recently out of college, and a natural match for a collegiate audience well beyond pricey Ivy League campuses.
― nabisco, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
I donwloaded this off Derek ages ago
Psst, this isn't the Stylus board.
― jaymc, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
I've only heard the EP, which is good to very good. The Graceland comparisons aren't exactly right; the band borrows the spirit without stealing riffs or motifs wholesale. Which is just fine. It makes more sense for a crew of preps to know about "Afropop" via their parents' Paul Simon collection than attempting a grotesque King Sunny Ade thing on their own.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 28 January 2008 20:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
i think the word "natural" was my favourite part of yr review, nabisco. yes.
― sean gramophone, Monday, 28 January 2008 20:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
― gr8080, Monday, 28 January 2008 20:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
what happened was someone fucking w/nabisco or something?-- jhøshea, Monday, January 28, 2008 5:25 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark LinkI wasn't the proto-Jagger: that thread get revived, and someone (Heave Ho?) kept pasting in my name, and at some point I think mods decided it was easier to just put on the Jagger-filter than keep coming back and snipping it out. At this point it would probably be safe to remove the filter and just go back and clean up the thread.-- nabisco, Monday, January 28, 2008 7:15 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link
-- jhøshea, Monday, January 28, 2008 5:25 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Link
-- nabisco, Monday, January 28, 2008 7:15 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link
lets cyberfuck
― gr8080, Monday, 28 January 2008 20:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
I wanted to go to the show tomorrow night (at Bowery) but apparently those 15$ tickets sold out really quickly. :(
― Mordy, Monday, 28 January 2008 20:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
do people actually like the singer's voice? do they wish more generic indie yelpers would put a little "tally me banana" in the mix?
― da croupier, Monday, 28 January 2008 21:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
i mean i get why people like the IDEA of this band, "breath of fresh air" and all, its the execution i'm like why god why over.
I don't like his voice. But I don't mind it. I just find the music very catchy.
― Mordy, Monday, 28 January 2008 21:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
I say it's one of the most refreshing and replayable records of the year.
― burt_stanton, Monday, 28 January 2008 21:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
why didn't voxtrot have this much hype.....they seem very similar to me....thats just me though....voxtrot got recognition but VW is kind of in another league with the fast exposure
― gman, Monday, 28 January 2008 22:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
Take it back to late 2006/early 2007--every piece of media in NYC had started hyping Vampire Weekend. It seriously reminds me of the Strokes.
― burt_stanton, Monday, 28 January 2008 22:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
This is really a great band. And saying there the Artic Monkeys of 2008 is so true. Both really great bands. I think the Vamp Weeks and the Wombats album will be the true highlights of 2008.
― Choose Leif, Monday, 28 January 2008 22:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah, I mean wtf. I like the Arctic Monkeys a lot! If VW can record two albums as good as AM's, they're in good shape.
And, um, what the fuck doesm"angular" mean?)
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 28 January 2008 22:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah.
― Choose Leif, Monday, 28 January 2008 22:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
I like how we keep going through this same shit over and over again.
They will be hyped until their next album, then slowly forgotten. Or not so slowly (are Arctic Monkeys still alive?).
Why can't we hype artists that are continually making solid releases and/or artists who actually take CHANCES and you can listen to it without having to be in some context?
― squids, Monday, 28 January 2008 23:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
i haven't really heard these guys one of the videos i watched reminded me of the video for "just got lucky" by the joboxers
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 28 January 2008 23:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
The lightness of touch is what confirms it to me as pop.
shit like this (which is so so common in indie webzines) reminds me of Xgau's crack about the macca: "I've finally figured out what people mean when they call Paulie pop--they mean he's not rock."
― da croupier, Monday, 28 January 2008 23:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
how many afropop combos are a three piece? Anybody else think they could do with a second percussionist or something?
― da croupier, Monday, 28 January 2008 23:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
or wait the singer plays guitar too, right? four piece.
if you had a better singer, bigger hooks and a better groove, these guys would really be something. namely "nothing but flowers."
― da croupier, Monday, 28 January 2008 23:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
i can kinda get into these guys, y'know.
― Creeztophair, Monday, 28 January 2008 23:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 28 January 2008 22:44 (44 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
― Bodrick III, Monday, 28 January 2008 23:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
I think they could do with a better drummer.
― Lolpez, Monday, 28 January 2008 23:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
I mean, how great is that?-- gabbneb, Monday, January 28, 2008 1:22 PMNot very.-- Ned Raggett, Monday, January 28, 2008 1:26 PM
-- gabbneb, Monday, January 28, 2008 1:22 PM
-- Ned Raggett, Monday, January 28, 2008 1:26 PM
ZING
― stephen, Monday, 28 January 2008 23:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
anyone else want white boys doing afro pop, but with some authenticity in the form of omg actual african's? http://www.myspace.com/extragolden
― jaxon, Monday, 28 January 2008 23:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
i feel kind of weirdly proud of not having an opinion about this band. maybe i'm gonna make it after all.
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 28 January 2008 23:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
I feel this burning need to do a poll on who does and does not like "Love Plus One" by Haircut 100
― nabisco, Monday, 28 January 2008 23:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
Hahahaha I've been meaning to reference that song on here eventually.
― da croupier, Monday, 28 January 2008 23:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
along the lines of "wake me when they record something as good as Love Plus One."
― da croupier, Monday, 28 January 2008 23:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
I don't know why but "Hourglass" by Squeeze keeps coming to mind.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 28 January 2008 23:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
THEY'RE SOPHISTI-POP
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 28 January 2008 23:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
man, where ARE the young new wave dorks making pop songs as good as Love Plus One? I mean, shit, the late 90s had LOTS more goofy awesome new wave hits than today, and yet NOW is when we're allegedly resurrecting the 80s and going "ahh yes I see some folks in NYC have discovered Johnny Hates Jazz."
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
really alternapop, that time between the first Tibetan Freedom Concert and Woodstock III, by way of being really gaudy and ACTUALLY SUCCESSFUL and incorporating newfangled concepts like record scratching and whatnot, was more truly in the spirit of new wave than just regurgitating the ZE catalog for bloggers.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
What are you talking about? Len? Smashmouth? Lit?
― Bodrick III, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
all that shit between the woodstocks! it was a nutty time.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
honestly, Anthony, I'd love a group now who could record a song as good as "Shattered Dreams."
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
well who wouldn't? too bad we just got indie dicks mumbling/mewling over some sonic signifiers of the era.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
Alfred otm.
― Bodrick III, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
Depends how important Graceland signifiers are to you. I forgot who said upthread that VW cops the sensibility of "I Know What I Know." Which is at least an honest secondhand appropriation. Besides, are you telling me that Paul Simon-as-vocalist can't be as fey as Ezra Keonig?
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
(xpost)
steal my sunshine is the bomb
― M@tt He1ges0n, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
Besides, are you telling me that Paul Simon-as-vocalist can't be as fey as Ezra Keonig?
I dunno if fey is the right word, but Simon sure has more presence on my hits comp. Srsly, it's kinda frightening that Simon and Byrne have, like, GREAT PIPES compared to the new school. Though this kid is pretty young, maybe he'll grow into it. But with so much smoke already up his ass, unless he's not happy just rocking a cult, why would he bother?
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
I dunno - Simon was pretty annoying as part of a folk-rock duo.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
Admittedly, I can't stand S&G. I'm talking about the era these kids are jackin
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
why can't Ezra Koenig sing more like this man?
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
Byrne sounded thin on 77, and the thinness was part of the concept. I mean, RISD punk-ass worrying about the government while sneering at compassion as a "virtue" is almost as troubling to a thirtysomething.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
that's the thing about the whole new indie thing of "why would we try to be big stars when we can just put out our own albums and make music we love blah blah blah" cuz there's some shit people get better at when they're aggressively trying to court attention. without some exec or an expensive producer to beat enunciation out of them a lot of these novices are just gonna rot on the vine without ever making their one hit.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
I love that side of The Talking Heads, flirting with near-right imagery, lol.
― Bodrick III, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
did Tony Bongiovi beat, I don't know, human feeling into David Byrne?
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
Byrne had a more unique identity than any modern folks from the word go, but I'm under the impression the knob twiddlers on those 70s albums earned their cut.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
Well, Isaac Brock and Britt Daniel are two older modern folks who've got plenty of identity. Koenig isn't at their level, but listening to him I imagine what it must've been like to hear 77 for the first time, especially after seeing them live. With all due respects paid to the irony of a hack engineer producing an "art" band, it still sounds plenty thin. What made Byrne at the beginning were songs, not identity; the identity came on the next album.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm going to relisten to 77 tonight, but even after 20 years of familiarity with the Heads' work, it still sounds like a band testing a stand-up act, then realizing, on the next album, that they could deepen the act.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
The thinness of the vocals is part of why I can't get excited about VW. I also find myself wishing that they would do songs as grate as "Love Plus One", or the JoBoxers song that someone compared their video with upthread. Granted, these are vague terms, but I don't hear much in the way of "passion" or "soul" or anything that would make for great pop music in the stuff that I've listened to by them. To me their stuff sounds like a musical equivalent of someone mumbling; I mean, I'm assuming these guys have compelling stuff inside them somewhere, but it's as though they're not reaching down deep enough to pull it out and express it. They end up sounding as blah to me as so much of other contemporary "indie rock" stuff that I've been exposed to.
― dell, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
Obv VW could improve but what shtick they've got now is a lot less novel, engaging, achieved than the best of 77 sounds even today.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
though "not as interesting as the talking heads" is a pretty high fuckin bar to hold a band to, "not as amusing as haircut 100" is more fair.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
Here's a point I'm probably going to defensive about over the whole length of this thread: people picking on VW over common "indie" qualities they're assumed to have but really, really don't. So far we've had "intellectual horseshit" and "mumbling," neither of which are even close to major sensibilities on this stuff.
I'd also suggest that people are bringing their own old-people music-knowledge to bear on this band in ways that presume intentions that aren't necessarily there -- like thinking of them as doing some kind of studied imitation of things from the late 70s and early 80s. I mean, maybe that's the case, but I'd offer a much more likely source for this sound: the math suggests these guys would have been in high school when the first Strokes record came out (something you can hear in some of their tidy pop structures, or at the end of "Campus"), and they'd be neither the first nor the last people in the world to hear a couple African pop compilations and think "those are such pleasant guitar sounds, let's use the clean channels from now on."
(Haha plus the one record store next to their campus always stocked a good amount of African pop, and I know because I played lots of King Sunny Ade the year I worked there.)
― nabisco, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
the math suggests these guys would have been in high school when the first Strokes record came out
sentences like that make my stomach drop out of my body
― s1ocki, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
i never said they were mumbly, that was in ref to indie shit in general. I said they were yelpy and generic.
referencing Peter Gabriel on your chorus kinda helps push the 80s revival thing. they also bring up a bunch of high class affectations in songs about trying to get laid. that's pretty indie.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
Wait, which songs are about trying to get laid?
― nabisco, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
Tomson, a self-described Phish head
http://www.college.columbia.edu/cct/may_jun07/updates3.php
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
the one with the "do you wanna fuck?" chorus, maybe?
tho that isn't quite how i'd describe it
which might be why croupier doesn't get it
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
goddamn young whippersnappers in their mid-20s, why should I, in my late 20s, have to deal with this shit.
x-post "Can you stay up To see the dawn In the colors Of Bennetton?
Is your bed made Is your sweater on Do you want to Like you know I do"
I just assumed this was Paul Banks-style art-school "young girl" poon cruise
lol what don't I "get" gab?
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
"the one" = "songs"
― nabisco, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
then there's the one about visions of johanna
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
xposts Nabisco, I think I understand much of what you're saying there, with the exception of your first paragraph. I swear there is some anemic quality characterizing much of the "indie" stuff of the last few years that has gotten lots of attention that just leaves me cold...a lot of it has to do with bland vocals...and maybe even more to the point, I would attribute my unenthusiastic response to generally blah songwriting.
Also, I guess it just disappoints me that so much of what they get touted for in the press centers around the non-western pop influences, which I can't help but think could be used to better effect. But, obviously plenty of people find them compelling. Personally, I just hear them and think "meh".
― dell, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
and hey I love interpol, I'm just saying More Songs About Prep School Jackets And Girls is pretty frikkin indie.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
you think it's about a "poon cruise"
I think this is one where the music says as much or more than the lyrics do, but let me have fun with those for a minute...
Is your bed made? = Is the sound clean? Is your sweater on? = My Brooks Brothers is feeling incredible Do you want to = You guys are part of this too Like you know I do = This is so much fun
But this feels so unnatural = We know we're taking some chances here Peter Gabriel too = But that old guy did it too
Can you stay up = Shall we go, you and I while we can To see the dawn = Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds In the colors = But we want to include everyone in this Of Bennetton? = ;-)
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
i never said they were mumbly, that was in ref to indie shit in general.
No, that wss me that invoked "mumbly", and by that I didn't mean like classic-"slacker" brand of inarticulateness (whether of the deliberate variety or not), but more that their music brings to mind trying to conversate with a friend who is so guarded or something that he doesn't wanna give up the goods, and as a result nothing of real consequence ever gets expressed. But at the same time, you know that it's in there somewhere, which makes it doubly frustrating.
― dell, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
What about if they borrowed from the PG of "Big Time" and "Sledgehammer"? A horrifying thought if you're Xgau or other boomers whose sensibilities don't like gauche dick jokes punctuated by Motown horns, but possible for an indie act now.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
man if kwassa kwassa is meta rather than a come-on i have even less respect for them
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
LCD Soundsystem should totally go for a Sledgehammer/Big Time on album number three
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
don't put it past them!
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
supplies. it's both, really. tho ironic distance might be closer than meta and i think it's a little charming for a come-on.
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
"Someone Great" is their "Mercy Street," a little.
xpost - CCKK doesn't seem "meta" at all, but Anthony, I'd note that the girl in it is only "young" in the first half of the first verse, and collegiate by the second; besides which what follows close on the "do you want to" is ... "but this feels so unnatural."
The main recurring topic I see here is people leaving where they are and/or changing -- in "A-Punk," "One," "Ladies of Cambridge" ... and then the opposite in "Campus," where the other person is still always right around and you have to pretend not to care.
xpost - I feel like I'm being waved away from the point with words like "anemic" -- what bands are we talking about? Because this album has a style in both production and songwriting that's a lot cleaner / more spacious than most recent equivalents, nothing but clean sounds and barely an overdub to speak of. I can't think of too many indie bands lately who can go through a section with just a bass part and some sedate drum tapping without sounding ... naked; I can think of a ton of indie bands lately who pile instrument upon instrument in an effort to work up some weight, and wouldn't dream of letting an unadorned, no-effects, clean-channel recording of a guitar or plain electric-piano setting stand out and carry everything.
― nabisco, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
also the tone of the song is obviously nostalgic - it's a fond evocation of the moment in early-mid college when everything feels most alive and unfolding in front of you
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
i don't think the girl's age changes, i think the narrator is no longer "young," i.e. has entered the "real world"
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
"Know your boyfriend, unlike other guys," lol
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
maybe L'homme run is more croupier's style - http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/download/45430-lhomme-run-vampire-weekends-ezra-koenig-various-tracks-streams
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 01:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
Haha L'homme run is a good argument for not becoming well-known anywhere close to the college years in which it's normal to do things like L'homme run.
(Also I guess we're headed into geeky lyric-interpretation comparisons, but CCKK goes from "as a young girl..." to "as a sophomore...," which I always read as tagging two different time periods!)
― nabisco, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 02:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
you may be right, i may be crazy
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 02:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
haha god that l'homme run thing is just tooo perfect, not that I really feel like listening to it.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 02:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
that would augment the loss of innocence vibe
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 02:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
xpost - I feel like I'm being waved away from the point with words like "anemic" -- what bands are we talking about?
I guess it goes without saying that this is all gonna veer along the lines of personal prejudice and so forth. My thing is that so many bands falling under the "indie rock" rubric that I've heard in recent years that have either been recommended to me personally, or who I've read a bunch about and then tried to listen to, have just sounded like they are holding back in some way that ends up reaching my ears in such a manner that I am quick to write them off as sterile-sounding.
For instance, bands as disparate and who mine territories as different as say, LCD Soundsystem and Vetiver, I just feel like they are coming from some weird remove...it doesn't have anything necessarily to do with the bare sonics; I mean, I personally find it refreshing if (people such as VW) in a guitar-based band choose to have clean guitar sounds or relatively unpiled-on production on their records. It's more that I feel like they are not giving enough of themselves to the listener, overall...like somewhere along the way there is some obfuscation going on for whatever reason. Which again, is so, so subjective, and based in large part on personal prejudices that I have when I sit down and listen to music. I mean, I am definitely someone who tends to gravitate towards a spectrum of stuff which wears its heart on its sleeve, so to speak.
But then again, I love Phoenix, and I don't think that they are some particularly emo-ish (whatever that means) band...so I dunno. I just feel like so much stuff sounds like going through the motions; to invoke the old thing of "if you're gonna make music, for god's sake at least have something to say"...or the school of "the people who make some of the greatest music have no choice in the matter"...I just feel like those intangible qualities are missing from VW and and other stuff that I would be quick to shrug my shoulders at or even complain about. Maybe this is all some "rockist" take on things. But I don't even think so...again I hear the VW stuff and am just left blank. Could be an old dude, thing, though! That's fair enough.
― dell, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 02:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
Dell otm re obfuscation - I think xgau calls this 'formal commitment'. I call it not-worrying-every-five-seconds-how-cool-you're-being.
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 02:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
Oh, I misread - I think the 'anemic' sound is less obfuscatory, obv
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 02:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
In this case. Arg, I really shouldn't do this on blackberry, should I.
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 02:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
i like msuic that meesses with my feelings, or makes me want to stick my dick in thigs. vampire wekeend makes me want to go to connecticut and say 'hi' to my aunt and uncle while watching the 4th of july aprade down mainstreat quietly and respectfully
― burt_stanton, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 02:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
Not funny.
― Choose Leif, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 02:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
wtf is your problem 4th of july parades are hella fun
― gr8080, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 02:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
xpost to gabbneb
Well, to clarify, I don't mean "anemic" in terms of pure sonic qualities. I mean rather that I as a listener I get the impression that people are holding themselves back in some way, such that there is vitality lacking in their final product. Again, it brings to mind trying to have a conversation with someone who is forever holding back important stuff. I don't by any means expect or want every artist to have an early U2-style of earnestness; plenty of my favorite music is on a silly spectrum of things...but, in the best of that "silly" stuff, there is a commitment that I don't find in much of the stuff that I am taking issue with here.
― dell, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 02:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
So, yeah, I maybe am some crypto-(or not so crypto)rockist or something?
But, I don't think so...
― dell, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 02:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
U GUISE I REALIZEDVAMPIRE WEEKEND ARE NOT AS GOOD AS SADE
WHAT SHOULD I DOOO?
― jhøshea, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 02:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
I LIKE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT STUFF SOMETIMES.
I, yeah...
― dell, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 03:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
man i dont want everyone to get really into peter gabriel
― max, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 04:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
i love the dude but hes MINE and i dont want to be that asshole saying 'i was into peter gabriel before everyone else was'
...how old are you again?
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 04:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
"everyone" = "everyone ages 18 - 25"
― max, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 04:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
Take a stand.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 04:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
-- da croupier, Monday, January 28, 2008 3:43 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link
QFT
― gr8080, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 04:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
but yeah i would def listen to james murphy doing a gabriel record
― max, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 04:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
apparently the other dudes are not so into the phish, shocker
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 05:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
To backtrack up the thread, Arctic Monkeys comparisons are INSANE. They sound nothing alike and will be nowhere near as big. And have been nowhere near as hyped. Ridiculous. I think they're much better (at the moment) too.
― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 08:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
Also someone up top says they sounded really "thin" compared to Animal Collective (I think in a live context) - well I literally can't listen to Animal Collective. Their records give me a headache inside seconds, but from abstracted descriptions I ought to enjoy them. It's just that no one ever says "yeah and their records sound fucking horrible and hurt your head" after spiel about Beach Boys and drums and masks and shouting and campfires and techno and loops and melodies.
After years - might be five or six, might be ten or twelve (Oasis kick-starting the aesthetic for ambitious guitar bands to be BIG and LOUD and INDISTINCT) - of huge, messy, maximalist bands, Vampire Weekend do sound kind of quietly radical. Same as Guillemots did (to me at least) a couple of years ago. Refreshing. Musical.
― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 10:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
How are the names similar?!
― roxymuzak, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 15:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
their name makes me think of 'werewolf bar mitzvah', every time.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 15:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
Their name makes me think of a Projekt fan's spring break.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 15:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
-- That one guy that hit it and quit it, Tuesday, January 29, 2008 3:05 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link
yeah me too.
― s1ocki, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 15:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
At the risk of coming over all Geir (ew, what a thought) Vampire Weekend score over Animal Collective by virtue of having discernible tunes.
Animal Collective and Guillemots are guilt indie for Wire readers.
Still it is refreshing that after banging on in my blogs for the last two years about Apostle of Hustle and other Canadian worthies fusing indie and world music that someone outside Canada's latched onto the idea.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 15:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
somebody finally listened!
― s1ocki, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 15:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
Blame Canada
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 15:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
WTF IS UP W/THE CHANGE SITUATION IN CANADA $2 COINS WTF IM STARTING A THREAD AS SOOOOO N AS I GET HOME THIS IS AN OUTRAGE WHY IS NO ONE STORMING THE CAPITOL !!!?1!!!????/
― jhøshea, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 19:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
Are you saying Apostle of Hustle and company came up with the idea of fusing indie and world music? I guess it depends on how you define "indie."
― QuantumNoise, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 19:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
I was cheered that MattDC is into this, but was all wtf at his finding 'irish' influences. Then I realized maybe he means the pre-chorus keys in 'A-Punk'? They sound Zep-ripped to me.
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 20:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
I assumed he was thinking of the violin at the start of "Bryn," actually.
― nabisco, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 20:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah, I suppose. I think that comes out of compositional study.
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 20:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
Bryn's an Irish name, isn't it?
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 20:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
Welsh.
― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 20:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 20:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
I think that comes out of compositional study.
is this code for "classical music"?
― Jordan, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 21:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
well, that's where you start when you study composition, but it's not necessarily where you end, especially at columbia
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 21:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
"Composition" is a good way to refer to contemporary classical without using that oxymoronic term.
― jaymc, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 21:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
Has anyone heard the House Of Blondes album? Mastered by the same people. Similar NYC literate indie pop. Very interesting.
This is great though. Just so... enjoyable.
― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 22:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
They remind me a little of Spoon.
― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 22:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
vampire weekend = trying to fuck a week after you had your balls cut off.
I think people in the NYC area are reasonable in hating them. If you know how things work here, you know a band like VKWW shooting to the tops out of nowhere usually means they had some ... assistance.(ala the STrokes). Doesn't put their merit in question necessarily, but a little resentment is natural.
― burt_stanton, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 22:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
voice is on the case:
Vampire Weekend: Meant for Joy, Not Rage, By Mike Powell
Vampire Weekend: Please Ignore This Band
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 29 January 2008 23:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
what does that even mean?
vampire hands is like trying to mow the lawn with a english muffin a day after it rained!
― M@tt He1ges0n, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 23:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
Re their outfits: Dockers and deck shoes are indeed questionable
That's from the latter article. Ugh, it depresses me that someone is criticizing them based on what they are wearing at a given moment.
― dell, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 23:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm no doubt obtuse, but I can't understand Shepherd's politics or rockcrit: VW's music, with its immaculate construction, its high-collared violin solos, its boy's-choir croonery, is claustrophobically ordered—the sound of a band lulling itself into complacency. Whether they are truly bluebloods is beside the point: They embrace and exalt the accoutrements of a privileged Mo' Money/No Problems lifestyle.
PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY TECHNICAL COMPETENCE DENOTES AN EMBRACE OF REAGAN-ERA VALUES.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 23:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
plus i hate all the sex-music metaphors ppl say all the time...like "the decemberists is like having a wank in the hall closet, the meters are like fucking in a cheap hotel room"...it just seems lazy anyway and the whole thing is just a way for dudes to suggest that they are real freaky cats in teh sack, check it out ladeez...
also a big fan of: "shit like this can't rock a dance floor" by dudes that sit in front of computers all the time and never go out.
― M@tt He1ges0n, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 23:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
i forgot to mention the last one is by julianne shepherd ftr
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 29 January 2008 23:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
We have blog house now, we don't need to go out.
xp
― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 23:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
powell predictably otm he might be my fave critic around right now
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 29 January 2008 23:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
people who think this music is joyful must have some easy-flow seratonin. it sounds like sonic drywall
― burt_stanton, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 23:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
The last line of "One"—"Oh, your collegiate grief has left you dowdy in sweatshirts/Absolute horror!"—is as bitterly mocking as Evelyn Waugh or Whit Stillman
That line actually reminds of aFrenzal Rhomb lyric (Australians are prob the only people who know who they are)not Evelyn Waugh.
― W4LTER, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 23:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
music is made for metaphor. but not vice versa. g'night.
xxp
― whatever, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 23:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
more xxxxxxps than that actually. who cares.
― whatever, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 23:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
sorry about yr mental problems, burt
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 23:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ha, my biggest bone to pick with Dr. Shep would be the contention that they are out to whitewash African music, as opposed to the more plausible claim that they've just grabbed a pinch of it to flavor their indie/pop.
This seems symptomatic of that thing where, once someone's successful, it becomes tempting to read all their decisions as canny, cynical, and pitched at the context of the whole world. It seems a million times more plausible to me -- it seems flat-out self-evident to me -- that these were nerdy collegiate pop players who listened to some African pop and copped a couple rhythms and guitar sounds. Calling this a conscious whitewash of African music is like saying marinara sauce is an attempt to water down basil.
(xpost!! Burt is awesome on this thread, it's like there was a horrible car accident where Waldorf died and now all we have is a brain-injured Statler)
― nabisco, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 23:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
hey johnny rotten defaced that pink floyd shirt for YOU, man. never forget.
― tipsy mothra, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 23:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
P.S.: I have a pretty firm belief that this album will wind up about where the first Strokes one did -- i.e., some time will pass, it'll cease to seem like an issue to have strong opinions about, and people will circle around into some general agreement that these are catchy and likable ordinary songs, the kind that come on in bars and people smile and go "oh yeah, this was a nice tune," etc. It's interesting how their detractors object to their being branded the Amazing New Thing, whereas their supporters tend not to claim this -- the claim tends to be that they made a particularly solid/likable pop record.
What I'd be interested in hearing, detractor-wise, is an argument for why that sort of record doesn't belong in people's lives -- what's wrong with having that one pleasant, breezy, well-written indie record in your season's buying that you use the way I'm imagining people will use this one. (I mean, you can want something riskier and bloodier and with more fire, and even the legendary 12-CD-buyer has 11 other chances at that, but ... why get galled about this doing something else rather well? Unless your complaint is the suspicion that those other 11 will be the exact same thing, which doesn't really have anything to do with the quality of this one.)
― nabisco, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 23:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
8) i do it becuz i care
― burt_stanton, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 23:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
-- Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, January 29, 2008 10:34 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 23:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
Haw!
― roxymuzak, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 02:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
nabisco otm re strokes comparison. it was the first thing i heard when i started listening.
― fukasaku tollbooth, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 03:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
this is a cute enough record but I don't hear gabriel influence much at all; simon, yeah. you do realize this album is about three steps away from being the dave matthews band, though, right? I mean, really. but it's pretty good.
― akm, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 05:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
you do realize this album is about three steps away from being the dave matthews band, though, right?
um, yeah?! :D dmb is way less popwise or compositionally astute or pretty or intelligent tho.
great show tonight, btw.
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 06:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
or tasteful, if you care about that sort of thing
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 06:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
Results 1 - 10 of about 55 for "vampire weakened". (0.13 seconds)
― The Reverend, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 11:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
nabisco otm
― tremendoid, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 11:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
What I'd be interested in hearing, detractor-wise, is an argument for why that sort of record doesn't belong in people's lives -- what's wrong with having that one pleasant, breezy, well-written indie record in your season's buying that you use the way I'm imagining people will use this one.
first off, "what's wrong with one pleasant, breezy well-written album?" is a hair away from "when did you stop beating your wife?" I mean, boo fucking hoo, dude. the "argument" is basically that you can find stronger vocals, hooks, and grooves from afropop-jackers of twenty years ago (not to mention afropop itself), and that the difference in quality makes the album not particularly pleasant for the "detractor." How hard is that to get?
― da croupier, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 14:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
and please don't follow this with the "i'd like detractors to specifically name the twenty better afro-pop jackin albums they prefer" argument
― da croupier, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 14:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
also, folks who say the strokes album is full of "likable ordinary songs" aren't seeing the forest for the trees. The Strokes have a very idiosyncratic, atypical style, one that's manna for fans of Feelie/New Order jacked up trebly drone strums and slurred vocals. They're NOT ordinary, it's still subculture pop. And when people call those kind of albums "ordinary," its usually blinkered indie "my world is the world" logic.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 14:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
"likable ordinary" implies that those who don't need it are the freaks, rather that the music is niche bubblegum
― da croupier, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 14:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
The first afro-indie band were probably Red Guitars and there's more than a touch of their 'Marimba (Jive)' in some of Vampire Weekend's tracks. Jerry Kidd had a less sweet way with a melody; and as they were socialists from Hull the Red Guitars were unlikely to be caught up in the Ralph Lauren cardigan controversies that seem to be the main objection to the VWs. Sure the Red Guitars would be pleased that class war is alive and well.
― Guy Beckett, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 15:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
its possible that i might hear the pleasure in vampire weekend when i look past the groove that feels minimal and tepid compared to larger combos and the singer who has a lot of typical indie flaws compared to even paul simon and david byrne, but as of now I'm still kind of hung up their inability to provide the pleasures I usually expect from this kind of thing.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 15:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
and the singer who has a lot of typical indie flaws compared to even paul simon and david byrne
PAUL SIMON AND DAVID BYRNE ARE NOT CHOPPED LIVER!
jeez, it's like everyone's all dissin' simon on this thread, like vampire weekend ever wrote a song as good as mrs. robinson or had chevy chase in their video. don't even start w/r/t to the talking heads, this is majors vs. minor leagues.
― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 16:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
As far as I know, Vampire Weekend have yet to steal arrangements from Martin Carthy or break UN sanctions.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 16:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
(this is where we need Geir to come in and say that the apex of afro-indie fusion was Dance Into The Light by Phil Collins)
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 16:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
as long as you have chevy chase in your video you can commit genocide for all i care
― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 16:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
Steve Gadd vs. this weak-ass drumming
― Jordan, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 16:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
the drumming live is v different from that on the record
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 16:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
better?
― Jordan, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 16:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
There's what four Afro-pop moments on this entire album? Some of which last for a bar or two, hence my point about them being flourishes more than anything else. It's possible they're being overdebated here because people just aren't used to hearing them at all in indie pop in 2008.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 16:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
does anyone else think theyre purposely needling w/all the waspy signifiers - i just watched a video of them riding around in a sailboat!
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
YACHT ROCK 08!
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
Next B-side will be a cover of Toto's Africa.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
THAT WOULD BE SOOOO AWESOME
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm just kidding around with all the VW hate, but no, they actually are blue-blood types. They were connected to some of the richest and most powerful students and in the most exclusive clubs at Columbia--it's not surprising how almost every NYC media outlet lifted them up to the sky for an entire year out of nowhere, especially since there are definitely better, harder working bands in New York right now.
― burt_stanton, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
There are better, harder working footballers than Andy Reid as well but it doesn't stop me having a soft spot for the fat bastard.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
Whenever I hear or read the name of this band, I can't help thinking of that (UK television) car advert set in a therapist's office, with the midlife-crisis guy singing 'Hot-tub weekend...'
― MacDara, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
Steve Gadd vs. this weak-ass drumming-- Jordan, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 16:48 (24 minutes ago) Link
-- Jordan, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 16:48 (24 minutes ago) Link
whOaTM
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
You know, just because a band ironically needles all the signifiers of their upbringing, it doesn't mean they're still not using them to their advantage.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
THE PLOT THICKENS: http://blog.limewire.com/posts/1138-Trailer-Vampire-Weekend
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
ince there are definitely better, harder working bands in New York right now.
who cares how hard they work?
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
are you actually serious about that?
― burt_stanton, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
Working hard is great, but if you aren't good, should people give a fuck?
― roxymuzak, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
I mean, it's great that you can afford to sod off because you know you got the tunes. Who wouldn't?
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
haha those two voice rvws are nuts. talk about limited critical horizons, all it takes is some lacoste shirts and a roland amp for people to completely lose their shit
― gff, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
This may have already been mentioned a couple times in this thread, but a lot of this VW hate reeks of jealousy. Those shitty Village Voice columns are great examples. If you want to hate a band because they strike you as boring or uninspired, fine. But hating them because they remind you of Reagan for some fucked up reason is ridiculous.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ridiculous, yes, but how is it jealous?
― roxymuzak, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
― burt_stanton, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
Okay, maybe that specific article was more stupid than jealousy, but a lot of the other complaints arise from the "they got too big too quick! undeserving! my band works harder!" camp.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
er, the first VV column was positive.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
It's like the Strokes ... those kids parents were NYC big shots, so in 2002 people in New York made a big to do about that. It's just how it is now.
― burt_stanton, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
so what!
― gff, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
those kids parents were NYC big shots, so in 2002 people in New York made a big to do about that. It
like you?
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
yah totally - brilliant marketing - well played rich kids!
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
I don't care that much, the music's not for me, but ... remember a time ... when four scumbags from Queens could make it big in New York, or a nerdy working class art school drop out ... those were the days maN!! when rent cost $4 on the -real- Lower West Side
― burt_stanton, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
i mean all these burt stnadonds being all waah we wouldnt even be talking abt them if they werent so privileged - dont u see youve fallen right into their trap
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 17:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
and no burt i dont remember that i was 4 and living in california so there
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
Anthony, you bring a lot of vigor to your arguments up there, but not a lot of consistency!
(a) Part of what is meant by "ordinary" is my belief that nobody is really listening to this for "Afropop-jacking"; people are listening to this for well-made happy eighth-note indie. If the problem you are having with this album is that it's not good compared to Afropop, then you are looking for the wrong thing
(b) CLEARLY "ordinary" means ordinary within its indie context; you start saying the Strokes are still ordinary subculture music (no duh), but not ordinary in a broader context (no duh); these dudes, similarly, are manna for fans not of Afropop or Afropop-jacking but of a kind of naturalistic laid-back indie; but all you've made there is an argument that they're non-ordinary in a broader context, too (haha which would make anyone who's ever said "OMG this indie band is so routine and uninteresting" fully blinkered)
But fuck's sake, the accusation of "my world is the world" blinkers is just plain bizarro and context-missing, unless you seriously want every post on ILX to say "oh yeah, this Spoon song is pretty ordinary (in the specific context of Spoon's position in modern-day indie blah blah blah, not the geological sense)"
P.S. I would kinda like the list of who provides same-thing-better, but what we come down to either way is that some people find an album well-made and some people aren't feeling it; what's interesting is that pre-internet this was considered normal, not divisive, whereas now everyone who doesn't much care about a record enters into a sighing match in a comments box somewhere. Point being we got at this a little upthread: some songs here do it for me, right now, as much as "Love Plus One" might -- they don't for you. It'd be fascinating if we could get at why, but I don't know that it's possible, especially with these guys: there's something about the tidiness of their music that makes it hard to latch onto specific elements and have good/bad debates about them. So yeah, I would totally like to hear who you think provides the same thing better (to which my response will inevitably be "no, you've got it wrong, that's not what people are getting out of this").
― nabisco, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
P.P.S. Boo-hoo indeed -- yet I was just saying elsewhere that I can think back to listening to the Ocean Blue in high school or whatever and being fully aware that someone somewhere would find them boring and wimpy, but of course you could still listen to and talk about it without a Stanton sitting in the corner telling you so
This isn't "boo hoo why can't people listen to one pleasant indie record in peace," it's more a question about expectations, about: (a) criticizing records for what they aren't, rather than what they are, and the gap between the critic and the consumer/chatterer, and (b) the manufacture of "controversy" and polarization and argument over what is essentially the most normal situation imaginable -- a clump of people really enjoys a record, but OF COURSE lots of people just aren't feeling whatever they saw in it, something true of everything in the universe ever
― nabisco, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
im thinking the effortless vibe is exacerbating the class war complaint here
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
(Ha, J, I was saying that about their sense of unconcerned happiness, earlier -- and wondering whether, if they seemed miserable, it would be different. As it is, they get the "smug" and "privileged" lines in part because they sound pleased and joyous.)
― nabisco, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol rich kids everythings so easy for them (including but not limited to writing and recording songs)
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
This thread has been stunningly consistent in its arguments. I keep reading the same three reasons why VW is OK and the same three reasons why they are not OK (though Burt is not helping on that front). Which means exactly what Nabisco is saying--some people like a record and some people do not.
So all the non-music stuff is red herrings. Class signifiers or whatever, there is nothing so interesting in the VW backdrop/context that it requires a bunch of criticism and analysis to understand it. I think these guys are absolutely manipulating the hell out of the media but that doesn't mean that we need to care/play along.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
there's something about the tidiness of their music
great comment, that does come somewhere towards setting a context in which discussion of their stuff could be usefully possible.
my 2p: it's tidiness and difference at the same time that makes something stand out (and that can mean to be adored and hated). something has to jump out as different sounding but also be believable in the sense that you believe the people doing it are completely on top of what they're doing. that's what draws (me at least) in. it's there in elvis's early recordings, it's also there in why me and my son can't work out why 'mansard roof' is catchy.
xxxxxxpost, jeez
then, music aside, there's the class thing, which seems to be riling everyone. not every band can be left wing and working class.
― whatever, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
Not to drag it deeper, but they're like in the 2% of bands in New York who probably never complained about how expensive a fucking rehearsal space is.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
I think these guys are absolutely manipulating the hell out of the media but that doesn't mean that we need to care/play along.
otm, but we also don't need to assume that because they are of a particular class they are inherently better at manipulating the media.
― whatever, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
yah n theres definitely happiness and even generosity there - suggesting that this might be more than just breezy indie rock
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
not every band can be left wing and working class.
This is totally true, and, yes, it's really unfair to judge Vampire Weekend on their class alone.
BUT i think the disconnect is happening is because they're rich in INDIE ROCK. Underground rock (from the indie/punk/DIY tradition) traditionally rewards hard work and effort. Major labels are supposed to make the cinderella stories, indie labels traditionally signed bands that were in for the long haul, lots of touring, etc. I could be RONG, but Matador would have never signed such a green band 10 years ago, would they?
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
Blogs fucking up the game.
x-post yeah Whatever, I think they saw an easy path to publicity because they're "not like most bands" in their appearance/background (or the fact that they don't feel the need to bury their background) and went for it. Their "hanging out with" profile in the NYT on Sunday was hilariously bad.
But yeah, manipulating the media is certainly not a class-based skill.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
i think its totally valid to dislike a band for any reason you want. how do we separate out the non-music from the music?
― artdamages, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
Nobody should be allowed to record an album unless they are poor, their parents are poor, and they have only very limited access to recording studios. I'm kidding Burt.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
I honestly have no opinion on this band, I just like arguing. But witnessing this whole thing from ground zero has been pretty interesting - they've been the media favorites for over a year now, even before they released their CD-R. I remember reading a lot of the little "alt"weeklie rags, and Vampire Weekend has been the unanimous favorite ("these guys are going to be huge, trust me"), even without actual music released.
Having friends in the media doesn't really hurt to get a thumbs up every now and then, and getting that first bit of attention is pretty crucial. It doesn't judge their musical merit, but I think people are understandable in resenting that kind-of easy, meteoric rise because of connections.
― burt_stanton, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
Yeah I mean sure dislike a band for any reason you want but the whole VW discussion (not maybe in this thread but in the media in general) has been "I like VW 'cause their music is enjoyable" followed by "I don't like VW because their clothes/education make me uncomfortable" which is sort of retarded and will never go anywhere.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
1) VW has toured a lot in the last year. i think at least two trips around the US. (sure they might have more $$ flexibility to make that happen, but they have put their feet to the concrete)
2) Other bands w/ Columbia grads. the Walkmen, Animal Collective, Aa. None of these bands get dumped on for getting critical NYC help like VW, is it just 'cuz they sail yahts and wear lacoste?
3) the VW cd is okay. but not Great.
― Ben H, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
This thread has been more like "I like VW 'cause their music is enjoyable" followed by "I don't like VW because there is other music like it that is better" followed by "NYC just ain't what it used to be," which is a step up, maybe.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
maybe its bad timing for vamp week blowing up while the economy is falling apart
― artdamages, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
there are two americas
― artdamages, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
Well, yeah, 90% of NYC bands.. and writers... etc.etc... of note are in the Ivy League sphere of things (if you include Ivy League dropouts). A lot of it is really good, but it's definitely interesting. Who knows what it means???????
― burt_stanton, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
guys all but 2 of the songs on the album were recorded and circulated before they were signed so is it not possible that the ppl at xl said "hey this would make a really good album, and as luck wuold have it, they've already been written up in the new york times! we might make some money out of this!!"??
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
and tbh ppl bitching about them never having to slum it are either a. delusional b. jealous c. grasping at straws or d. all of the above, and most of all living in some crazy vacuum where this shit is supposed to matter
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
Matador would have never signed such a green band 10 years ago, would they
Well, they only distributed them, but the path here is not all that different from Belle & Sebastian's, no? Initial self-made recordings charm people with spare, natural sound, circulate through fans and critics, etc. Only in this case it's like remastering Tigermilk for your first wide release.
The idea that these guys are cleverly manipulating the media seems like an evil-genius fantasy that's probably better phrased as "they have good PR." And sure, money is involved in what was probably their wisest move, which was investing in the recording session this album came out of -- in the short term, at least, I suspect they'd have wound up with a worse record if they'd had to wait it out and record on a label's dime, rather than swinging it themselves and having their keyboard player as the producer. (Which is, ha, TOTALLY indie -- just possibly indie by way of having enough money to put into your project!)
Funny story, PR-wise: the first time I ever heard of these guys was while riding the subway home from work, and their singer was talking with an older woman about how his band was doing, and how they were starting to think about which publicity group they should go with; I couldn't resist asking someone else he was with what band it was. He did not sound like a canny evil genius, for what it's worth. Phrases like "we're exploring our options" may or may not have been involved. I dunno. He had a nice shirt, though.
― nabisco, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
you might like only musicians who have "paid their dues" because you identify w/ it but it's crazy to say that other people should do the same
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
the first time i heard of these guys was from j0hn d, i think: http://www.lastplanetojakarta.com/2007/06/great_new_band_alert.html
― Jordan, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
see guys all you need to do to get a good review on p4k is to befriend their writers in the subway
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
saw them open for somebody. i remember when my GF was asked who opened she said some boring guys
― carne asada, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
nabisco, do you think this is as good as tigermilk?
― artdamages, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 18:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
haha them is fighting words: I don't know these people at all, I just live in the neighborhood
her: "they're called vampire weekend, they're playing this weekend" me: "yeah, i'll have to check that out (yeah right like I'm gonna go check out some random Columbia band)"
Re: Tigermilk -- that's hard; I never heard Tigermilk until after hearing the next two, and after that it didn't seem particularly revelatory, since I'd already soaked in B&S's thing; I'm not particularly into it! I'd usually rather listen to Vampire Weekend than Tigermilk, yeah, but if I were somehow first-exposed to both at the same time, who knows. My main point was just that both blow in in this casual way that kinda reminds you of root song-as-song pleasures and makes other things seem clenched and trying-too-hard
― nabisco, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 19:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
Nabsico, maybe "manipulated" would have been better phrased as "fucking with". I have to believe that's what they were doing in this piece: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/fashion/27nite.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 19:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
"Fucking with?" Maybe this makes me an Upper West Side prep, or something, but that sounds like normal four dudes goofing off over a meal.
Haha, they have yet to do any press more than two blocks from my apartment
― nabisco, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 19:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
So yeah, I would totally like to hear who you think provides the same thing better (to which my response will inevitably be "no, you've got it wrong, that's not what people are getting out of this").
How about the Homosexuals?
― QuantumNoise, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 19:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
Cause Co-Motion?
― s. erkel, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 19:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
a certain ratio?
― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 19:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
but that sounds like normal four dudes goofing off over a meal
Exactly, except there's the NYT writer there who is going to drape their goofing off in all this gushy prose about how great they are. Just thinking of myself, if I leave the interview saying "Oh don't forget boys, we've got that big trip to Lacoste tomorrow," I know that that's getting printed.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 19:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
Orange Juice ftw
― burt_stanton, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 19:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
RIYL: Sublime
― tati1, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 19:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
Homosexuals = nuts
Cause Co-Motion = yes, totally, except so far as I've heard these guys are still releasing 7-inches with rickety trebly early-Television Personalities production, not smooth-sounding LPs with consistently good songs
A Certain Ratio = nuts
Orange Juice = yes, absolutely, though gee, might be a bit hard to pitch the Times with a profile and a story on Rip It Up
― nabisco, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 19:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'd be the happiest boy in the world if Cause Co-Motion released a really solid front-to-back LP, for sure
― nabisco, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 19:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol debating the origins of the lime rickey is "intellectual showmanship"
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 19:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
It's like the Strokes ... those kids parents were NYC big shots
in case anyone's buying the jealous Nude Spocks here, pls to present the evidence that these kids' parents are NYC big shots.
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 19:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
xp, yeah i'm kinda embarrassed for the author of that article
the embassy?
― s. erkel, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
if the hype on Vampire Weekend was simply "hey schmindie bought a new hat" I wouldn't feel the need to rip on these guys, cuz yeah, most schmindie bores me. But I rarely see them talked about in the context of say, Hot Hot Heat, but rather their afropop-jacking forebears. which inspires the negative comparisons to the Talking Heads' Naked.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
Likewise, when the Strokes were seen as the forefront of a "rock is back" tidal wave rather than a bunch of guys in denim who want to slur over "Love Vigilantes" (which I enjoyed, btw), I could understand if somebody who thought they were more Eeyore-over-Unrest than ROCK would start honking noses.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
ooo, Tough Alliance is good too.
― s. erkel, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
Oh, I disagree. The Homosexuals were way, way ahead of th curve in terms of fusing a kind of indie pop with world music. And they were much more ambitious and better pop song songwriters than VW. I don't get this idea that VW are good songwriters. Their songs don't seem particularly interesting to me.
― QuantumNoise, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
But I rarely see them talked about in the context of say, Hot Hot Heat, but rather their afropop-jacking forebears. which inspires the negative comparisons to the Talking Heads' Naked.
I prefer the Afro-pop jacking of early Talking Heads - Naked is actually pretty spotty. There are Vampire Weekend songs I like as well as or better than "Nothing But Flowers" - but so far I haven't heard any as good as "Once in a Lifetime" (though that's hardly a criticism).
― o. nate, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
It's nice to have something to look forward to - I think I'm going to stop by my local record shop and pick this album up tonight.
― o. nate, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
(That wasn't quite the question though, QN: the question was more what records would constitute adequate replacement for this one, to people who have a purpose for this one. Maybe we just differ on this one, but I find it really hard to imagine the Homosexuals slotting into someone's life and listening in the way VW does, appealing in the same way. And obviously people don't buy records to serve purposes like "I need to hear a fusion of a kind of indie pop with world music," they buy records for purposes like "me and my boyfriend enjoy singing along with this in the car.")
Tough Alliance threw me for a second, but yeah, there are certain songs I can see having the same effect these guys have, only for a slightly different audience. An overlapping one, but also people coming from a different place.
Haha Anthony your sentence structure up there pretty much says "I am ripping on this band because of people who write about them," which is understandable but, you know. I doubt this was premeditated by VW, but the obvious lesson = if you throw in one tiny marginal influence from elsewhere, people will spend enough of their word count talking about it that they won't just be pointing out the obvious peers you sound like. (Except there's another way VW score, with a sound and production aesthetic that doesn't sound quite enough like most peers to actually point it out.)
― nabisco, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
Why is it wrong for people to dislike something? I think there's this weird obsessive "positive bias" in the Anglosphere that it's worse to dislike something than it is to like it.
― burt_stanton, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
You are doing your best to erode that, for sure
― nabisco, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
the Anglosphere?
― jaymc, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ludus.
― dell, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
a reason why people might dislike this band is a perceived lack of emotional depth...i.e. the entire album has no sense of pain or struggle, lust or intrigue. who ever thought that being inoffensive and well-to-do was ever worth a ticket to stardom?
― s. erkel, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
jesus and mary chain.
― s. erkel, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
And obviously people don't buy records to serve purposes like "I need to hear a fusion of a kind of indie pop with world music,"...
But I definitely know people who buy records based on just this sort of thing. And the way that VW was initially brought to my attention by others was largely by way of them mentioning, "oh, there's this band called Vampire Weekend; they kind have this indie with Afro-pop thing going on." i.e., their influences as the selling point
― dell, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
That's a description, not a selling point! The selling point is the next couple sentences that go "I really like their songs, they're very catchy etc."
― nabisco, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
this is some of the worst music ive ever heard.
― chaki, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
I don't think that's true.
― roxymuzak, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
I mean none of their upcoming fans is watching MTV2 and going "if only a band would come on next that brought world influences to an indie templ-- hey, eureka!" I'd anticipate a lot of them who hear "A-Punk" and never think of Africa at all, but feel like it was peppy / sunny / low-key / etc
― nabisco, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
they kind have this indie with Afro-pop thing going on
See, if all I had to go by was that description, I would have run screaming from Vampire Weekend. To me, the combination of Afro-pop with indie in theory sounds about as appetizing as dill pickles with peanut butter - which makes it all the more amusing when you hear the music and it actually sounds pretty good.
― o. nate, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
i just watched "mansard roof" on youtube.
it reminds me of like if the decemberists jammed with one of those italian organ grinder dudes with a monkey, they should wear boater hats that would be pretty sweet.
it's not terrible but damn u all really like this more than "you can call me al"????
― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
the song "a-punk" is a lot better
― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
the main riff reminds me of "time bomb" by rancid
does anyone remember Macha? -- their indie/world music thing seemed a little more interesting to me
― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
And obviously people don't buy records to serve purposes like "I need to hear a fusion of a kind of indie pop with world music," they buy records for purposes like "me and my boyfriend enjoy singing along with this in the car.")
That's why I mentioned the songwriting issue. The Homosexuals make me want to sing out loud, clap along, take their music everywhere I go. It's wonderfully catchy pop. I can't speak for others, but VW's music doesn't inspire me that way. It don't think it's exuberant or catchy or full of life.
Someone mentioned Dave Matthews earlier; I actually think VW doesn't sound that diff from the Samples. In the early to mid 90s, when I was in college, just about every college/hippie mountain town had a quirky pop band that was a mix of They Might Be Giants, a little Phish, and a little world music/reggae. That, to me, is basically what this band does. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it comes off kind of soft.
― QuantumNoise, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
Seems to me VW use afropop like Kid Creole used funk -- as a frame to contain and propel their singer/songwriterly impulses. Which are mighty formidable for a bunch of 22 year olds. I saw last night's show too. I also saw Talking Heads in '77 and for that matter Paul Simon's Graceland show. And while last night was neither of those, it was an excellent showcase and fwiw the audience seemed to be having a better time than those at either of the more historic events. I stood upstairs where I could pretend to be someone's parent.
It's a longstanding tradition for ny art bands to set musical and stylistic parameters within which they can excel, and then have people wonder how much of their act is real and how much a put-on. Ramones being the obv example. The Ramones were street kids from the outer boroughs, so they made themselves the platonic ideal of that. It's an extension of the idea "write what you know."
I mean, if you don't channel your creativity into some kind of framework, you wind up with the horrible let-it-all-hang-outness of that opening act with the harmonium. Devil something. Speak Of the Devil? Devil In the Details? Devil May Care? I sure didn't.
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
I stood upstairs where I could pretend to be someone's parent = one of things in that post that makes me go <3
― nabisco, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
indie anthropologists of the distant future should note that that's a heart
― nabisco, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
i love music
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
kill me now
― s. erkel, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
Seems to me VW use afropop like Kid Creole used funk
That's an interesting point. But I think Kid Creole was much more convincing as club music, as a creature of rhythm. That's why I find him more interesting. Then again, I like grooves.
― QuantumNoise, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
a reason why people might dislike this band is a perceived lack of emotional depth...i.e. the entire album has no sense of pain or struggle, lust or intrigue.
this is a very reasonable response for anyone who doesn't know how to read or understand lyrics
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol, awesome
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
a reason why people might dislike this band is a perceived lack of emotional depth...i.e. the entire album has no sense of pain or struggle, lust or intrigue. this is a very reasonable response for anyone who doesn't know how to read or understand lyrics
ad hoc attacks are cool for people who can't think of anything interesting to say
― s. erkel, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
explain to me to emotional depth of vampire weekend.
― s. erkel, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
learn to read :D
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
they are way more rusted root than dave matthews
― chaki, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
yr a couple months behind me there
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
*sigh*
there's no debating a vampire weekend fan.
― s. erkel, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
gabbneb was into rusted root before it was cool
― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
they are a little rusted root, a little but .moe
― chaki, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
*bit
sad but true
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
fred durst has "emotional depth." so does staind. also, nickelback.
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
i'll have to refrain from reading this thread or else i will hate this band
oh wait...too late
― rizzx, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
TS: this vs. the 2008 primaries thread on ILE
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
It seems perfectly valid to find thing lacking in blood or fire -- I'd disagree with Gabbneb and say that extends to the lyrics, too. They're not a bloody or a fiery group, it's true. (Blood and fire leave stains on blazers.) I suppose I get my blood and fire elsewhere, and come to this for rather different reasons, ranging from sedate joy to less-sedate elan, or something. Given the winter release, it's almost escapist; when spring comes it'll be less so.
But another thing I find interesting about it is that it accidentally winds up confronting what constitutes "blood" and "fire" -- e.g., does eschewing distortion and less-controlled sounds really mean a lack of blood and fire? Not doing these things is a lot of what makes them sound a little different from some of their immediate peers. I don't think they're bloody or fiery in the least, it's true; is part of my interest the fact that they run with that, unselfconsciously, without using the standard musical signifiers that might suggest it to people? This is kind of where the "refreshing" part comes from.
― nabisco, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
-- M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, January 30, 2008 3:17 PM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
Oh yeah. I saw them live once. "The Nipple Gong" ruled.
― jaymc, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
Vampire Weekend is music for chicks that work at Urban Outfitters.
― chaki, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
I like the idea of a band using a really clean, minimal sound that brings in some cool rhythmic influences into good songs. I just don't like this band's execution very much at all.
― Jordan, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 21:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'd disagree with Gabbneb and say that extends to the lyrics, too.
I didn't say they had blood and fire - they're not Metallica or the Indigo Girls - I rejected the premise that "the entire album has no sense of pain or ... lust or intrigue."
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 22:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol, California
who ever thought that being inoffensive and well-to-do was ever worth a ticket to stardom?
http://elbo.ws/ http://hypem.com/
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 22:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
I don't listen to much indie rock, but a band who does the above really well = Field Music. They're not jacking afropop obv., but their percussion arrangements are sick.
xp to myself
― Jordan, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 22:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh sorry:
Vampire Weekend is music for chicks that work at Urban Outfitters and gabbneb.
― chaki, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 22:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
how do you not i am not a chick who works at urban outfitters?
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 22:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
sorry again.
― chaki, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 22:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
i wish gabbneb was a chick that worked at urban outfitters, a lot of them are hot
― max, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 22:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
i'm not available, max, and yr a little kid
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 22:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
youre also not hot
― max, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 22:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
this is right on -- keep in mind i haven't even heard this album yet, but it's clear VW are a band that are easy to argue about, which means there is some crystal clear conceptual work going on (lol "branding"). PREPPIES PLAY THE AFRO-INDIE. << that could be a thread title without this band even existing and the same argument could have happened. an interlocking handful of a few clear ideas: shit, countless thousands of bands never even get that far. i guess i should hear this band.
― gff, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 22:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 22:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
The Kids Don't Stand a Chance = The Last Waltz Theme?
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 01:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
-- gabbneb, Wednesday, January 30, 2008 4:52 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Link
Oh, my.
― roxymuzak, Thursday, 31 January 2008 04:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
Opeth too
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 04:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
pathos, really
k
― roxymuzak, Thursday, 31 January 2008 04:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, why does anybody care? It's just inoffensive indie-pop. Have you guys not heard Someone Still Loves You Boris Yeltsin? IT WILL BLOW YOUR MIND. O_O
― Tape Store, Thursday, 31 January 2008 06:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
Nice, I will def check them. lol, that a funny name too!
― Choose Leif, Thursday, 31 January 2008 06:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
rap dudes and conspiracy theorists,
plz feel the internet vibes:
http://internetvibes.blogspot.com/2005/08/vay-kay-blog.html
― tramp steamer, Thursday, 31 January 2008 09:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
Since when was blood, fire, and grit all that was good about music?
― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 31 January 2008 10:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
Note my use of an Oxford Comma there.
WHOO GIVES A FUCK
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 13:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
I think these guys should "interpret" some White Lion cartoons. Or perhaps even "cover" them.
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 13:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
Wait...
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 13:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
they were a New York band too
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 14:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
i think chaki is right
― sleep, Thursday, 31 January 2008 16:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
maybe this is the NY band they should be more like?
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 17:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
We don't have any finished recordings as a full band but Rostam did a sweet techo remix of our first song "Walcott." He also made a nice website for it:
Aww, dead link! Especially since ... mostly speculating, but I'm pretty sure the reason these guys work is that Koenig turns out good indie-pop song, and Batmanglij is the one who can structure and organize them so they have the depth and the movement.
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 17:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
1. Mansard Roof 2:07 2. Ladies of Cambridge 2:45
Single release from this New York indie band with a taste for African sounds and ska. Big noise about them; highly recommended!
description from what.cd lol
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 17:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
wow @ anthrax
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 17:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
nyc can and has done a lot worse than anthrax over the years
― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 31 January 2008 17:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
that photo is amazing - their style is impeccable - except im not sure why they all need to be wearing hats?
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
they are just "hat guys"?
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 17:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
how do you go from that to having this fucking thing on yr face :(
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 17:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
srsly the most passive aggressive facial hair ever
they have a straight up ska song on the album. i dont see why that description is very "lol."
― chaki, Thursday, 31 January 2008 17:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
stfu chak-head
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 17:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
Chaki OTM. There are at least as many third wave ska moments on the album as there are juju ones.
― C0L1N B..., Thursday, 31 January 2008 17:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
i listened to 'ladies of cambridge'. are all of their songs such fey studenty bullshit?
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 31 January 2008 17:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
chutup theres no horns or jumping
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 17:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
wtf are you in denial or something? telling people to stfu for pointing out the obvious? jesus fucking christ.
― chaki, Thursday, 31 January 2008 17:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
listened to 'oxford comma', ans: yes.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 31 January 2008 17:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
sry chakhead j/k - but no i dont think its v ska - also i have no idea what 3rd wave ska is
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
listen to the song "boston" by vampire weekend. that is 3rd wave ska.
― chaki, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
but what of the horns and jumping?
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
they were jumping when they were recording that song. horns are not needed in 3rd wave ska.
― chaki, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
but, to make up for it, 4th wave ska is played by the entire brass section of a minor philharmonic
― remy bean, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
Yes, VW does do some straight up ska, but it's more 2 Tone than anything.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
LOL @ jhøshea's idea of ska being solely fueled by the kids who wore JNCO pants at his high school.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
its more like 1/2 assed.
― chaki, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
its my personal belief that people who know abt the different types of ska should just sit quietly in the corner until called upon
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
your beliefs are also 1/2 assed.
― chaki, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
the people in my high school who were into ska wore little suits and rode around on scooters
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
did you go to school in japan?
― remy bean, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
uuugh
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
yes that is the type of music your precious vampire weekend play. face it, asshole!
― chaki, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol chak
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
wtf are you in denial or something?
A lot of indie kids are these days. They don't want to admit that some of their most fave bands over the last four, five years have much in common with jam band culture, ska, Ween, TMBG, and other frat-hippie classics.
― QuantumNoise, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
i went to high school w/those very guys there
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
I don't hear anything ska-ish except very vaguely on, yeah, "Ladies of Cambridge." Call it standard-lowering if you want, but I just appreciate hearing an airy indie-pop record that has as much rhythmic flexibility as they do, the way they can slide from rhythm to rhythm within a song -- like "Bryn," which starts out with 6-beat bars and then drops over into a straight 6/8. (That might be the wrong way to put it.) Which isn't, you know, rocket surgery, but it's a good habit for them to have.
Part of why I don't entirely dig the addition of "I Stand Corrected" is that it skews way further in a building 8th-note Strokes-pop direction; it's a perfectly likable song, but if they wrote like that all the time, I wouldn't be able to listen to them nearly as often.
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
nabisco you dont hear anything "ska-ish" on the song boston? you are not that dense. fwiw i kind of love Sublime.
― chaki, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
it's called "ladies of cambridge." it's not on the album.
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh
― chaki, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
they renamed it to make it doubly preppy-sounding.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
dreaming of boston is a total downer
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
i live in cambridge so fucking thanks, vampdire weakend.
And "A-Punk" is ska in a Police way.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
haha chaki u mad again
― max, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
boston is way more preppy than cambridge massachusetts which is waht theyre talking abt
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
I didn't even notice the great line in Bryn until this chick pointed it out - http://media.www.michigandaily.com/media/storage/paper851/news/2008/01/29/Music/Preppy.Sure.But.Who.Cares-3173537.shtml
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
max dude DO NOT f w/chakis ska trust me
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
P.S. QN I don't know many indie kids who would have much problem with Ween and TMBG associations -- I don't know about the really young ones, but those two are standard middle-school / high-school / college listening for plenty of indie non-kids.
Also the "four/five" years bit is weird -- the done thing in the 90s was to call out post-rock for being not THAT different from listening to jam bands or Medeski Martin & Wood or whatever, and the past four/five years have been well past the point where the indie masses turned off on all things Tortoise-like
xpost - yeah Chaki we are talking about the same song, Boston/Cambridge. You could call that kinda ska-ish, sure. I just can't remember hearing that sort of thing anywhere else on this, though -- lemme try and think over it
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
is it funnier to call a faux mighty mighty bosstones song 'boston' or 'ladies of cambridge'?
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
def boston
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
maybe the lyric should have been about 'the middle east'
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
"A-Punk" is the only song that sounds ska to me.
― jaymc, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
good use of scare-quotes
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
If the keyboard player were Ethiopian instead of Persian, his last name would mean SON OF BATMANG
xpost - wait, yes, I see what you guys mean -- "A-Punk" is like two-tone without the upstrokes, yes
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
max i dont think you understand my posting style at all because i am rarely mad about anything. god.
― chaki, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
you come from 'cambridge', xxp
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
I like the album a lot, but when they're not using specifically W. African-y elements the clean guitar and rhythmic sensibility reminds me more directly of a lot now-forgotten ska bands I saw in Jr. High School than an indie-juju hybrid.
― C0L1N B..., Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
I Stand Corrected isn't musically all that exciting, but it's a pretty buttoned-up lyric too.
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
african music /= juju
'newton'
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
I think these dudes are honestly the same dorks in high school/college who still play 9th-wave-ska 10 years after the fact, but somehow they've been able brand their style Little Miss Sunshine/Wes Anderson indie lite.
― burt_stanton, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
No shit, gabbneb. The African elements remind of juju more than any other African genre I'm familiar with (I'm not trying to argue this point, just explaining) and I wanted to be more specific than "African music".
― C0L1N B..., Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
tell me there is not a 9th wave of ska
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm assuming Boston/Cambridge got cut from the record for just sounding awfully lightweight -- I can't decide if it's good or bad that this means losing the funny bit at the end where he goes all Rick Moody with "a morbid streak runs through the whole of my family." It's probably for the best: that's like one of those Morrissey things where it's amusing if you like them, Stab Him Please if you don't.
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
We should turn this thread into another classic ILX "who knows more about world music" pissing contest.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
CHAKI I DONT THINK U UNDERSTAND MY POSTING STYLE BECAUSE SHEESH
― max, Thursday, 31 January 2008 18:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
xp: I'm hardly trying to start a pissing contest; I have pretty limited knowledge of "world music", it just seems like referring to African music in this context could lead to including all sorts of things that don't really have much to do with VW specifically.
― C0L1N B..., Thursday, 31 January 2008 19:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
isn't world music what you listened to in the 80s after breaking in your new "cappuccino machine"?
― burt_stanton, Thursday, 31 January 2008 19:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
― gff, Thursday, 31 January 2008 19:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
i duno this thread is pretty funny now. like why am i even here?
― chaki, Thursday, 31 January 2008 19:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
I thought they played kwassa kwassa - but maybe that would be too obvious.
― o. nate, Thursday, 31 January 2008 19:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
Dudes I think they buy random compilations and go "that's a cool rhythm, we should put that in the chorus." Not trying to dis their listening -- who knows, maybe the know the stuff front to back -- but I can't imagine them shooting to know much about any particular style, as opposed to just picking up bits of ideas
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 19:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
what's their faces were kind of like this. that band i can't remember the name of that all the indie kids like in 2001 that made me go "uh?"
― akm, Thursday, 31 January 2008 19:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh dismemberment plan
I don't think there's anything wrong with ska or having a ska sound (I have well-worn albums by Rancid and the English Beat in my collection) - but to me (and I'm far from being an expert) ska is basically just one beat, and the thing with Vampire Weekend is that they use lots of different beats, I think.
― o. nate, Thursday, 31 January 2008 19:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
this is like dismemberment plan but new. and more ska. but pinback is pretty fucking ska if you ask me
anyway I like XTC more than any of this shit. because I'm old
― akm, Thursday, 31 January 2008 19:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
and XTC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vampire Weekend
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 31 January 2008 19:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
That's one that never occurred to me, actually -- I could hear something like "A-Punk" on Drums & Wires easy. Only a little more complicated, and with some sort of tricky bridge somewhere.
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 19:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
The Squeeze reference uptop was pretty on point.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 31 January 2008 19:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
Yup.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 31 January 2008 19:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
i <3 squeeze
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 19:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
I don't know many folks who had a problem w/MM&W in the 90s. Back then they weren't a part of the jam band scene, really. They had more in with that whole East Cost Rykodisc/fringe Knitting Factory scene: Morphine, Cul De Sac, Wayne Horvitz, etc.
I'm not talking about "all things Tortoise-like." I'm talking about the intersection of quirky indie pop, world music, reggae, and electronic dance music as epitomized by Animal Collective, Gang Gang Dance, Aa, Akron/Family, etc. A lot of fans of these bands would scoff at comparisons to jam band culture, hippie drum cirlces, the quirkiness of TMBG (Yes, a lot of people think TMBG are totally bogus). But it's there and it has been addressed in more reviews (usually negative ones) than I can count. To AC's credit, they are pretty upfront about their days as Phish/HORDE fans. But a lot of their fans simply aren't, it seems to me.
― QuantumNoise, Thursday, 31 January 2008 19:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm kind of seeing this thing first hand. I recently moved to Asheville, NC, which is a real Arthur town. Around here a lot of kinds who seem to dig indie music/"freak folk" can't stand the jam band culture that's dominated the city for years. Yet they all dress like straight up hippies!
― QuantumNoise, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
The Indestructible Beat of Soweto>>>>>>>Black Sea>>>>>>>Congotronics>>>>>>>>>The Video For "You Can Call Me Al">>>>>>>>>>Macha>>>>>>>>>"Me & Julio Down By The Schoolyard" Scene from The Royal Tennenbaums>>>>>>>>>>>Style Council's Clothes>>>>>>>>>>>>>A Certain Ratio>>>>>>>>>>>>>Vampire Weekend
― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
Oh, sure, I'll get behind that, QN -- I guess the indie-hippies' protest would be something like "but no, don't you see, we're all MYSTICAL and MYSTERIOUS," because they want to be backwoods acid-damaged CRAZY hippies instead of feel-good jam-band bros
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
There is a geography thing going on there, I would say: that particular freak thing seems to have taken off in some places and not in others. I can't imagine seeing much of it in the Midwest, for instance. But NC, SF, LA, yes
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
u guys most contemporary jam bands are pretty awful tho
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
QN is correct about this, and that attitude isn't just about freak-folkers, it also crosses over to Brooklyn/Oakland noizers as well. And pretty much anyone who is into indie rock but would never see Juno.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
Talk to strangers at shows sometimes.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
OTM. The contrarian in me wants to like jam-bands too, it's just that all the ones I've heard kind of suck.
― o. nate, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
brooklyn/ca noise = dude with beard who stares into the distance spiritually while playing 8 minute long guitar lines. it's deep and important man.
best served while stoned after 2:00 am.
― burt_stanton, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
catsup dude is gonna serve you on a platter.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm not even sure what falls into the jam-band category at this point, though -- I feel like I'm always just seeing bands coming out of that circuit who aren't really ... jam-bands. Half the time they seem more like crusty punks with one member who really likes klezmer music. And then conversely there are plenty of acts who'd have been considered jam bands by 90s standards that aren't now -- say, Gogol Bordello. (And maybe some Brazilian Girls.)
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh, I say it with love. Nothing better than seeing some drone out in a South Slope warehouse while toasted, nicely toasted
― burt_stanton, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
i think you guys are talking about yeasayer
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
Where is there shows in South Slope?!
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
also there have been 200 posts here this morning alone and no one's brought up that a dude from the band is on p4k today talking about the music he likes
There's a song by this African guitar player called Kakai Kilonzo, and the song is called "Mama Sofi, Pt. 1". And it has the most awesome guitar riff. I remember we listened to that in San Francisco when we were on tour, and it's just the most incredible riff. And it comes in the second half of the song, it's a song divided into two parts.
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
not that that proves anything, just saying
They have them; I saw a few in this place called Alladin's Factory on 25th and 5th... I fell out with the friends who invited me, though... it was like some guy's backyard.
― burt_stanton, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
this explains a lot because if anything is the antithesis of seeing some dude "drone out" at 2:00 am in someone's seedy backyard it's vampire weekend
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
NOW
someone plz authoritatively define the sound of da new song so i can identify what wave it shall be classified under
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5E1SlBN0jA
OMG AWESOME !
― tramp steamer, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
Re: "hippie" business, above. Quantum & Whiney OTM. This [edited down] from an article in The Stranger this week on local band The Fleet Foxes:
"I am not a hippie," says Pecknold, sitting in a coffee shop along with his four bandmates four days after they announced signing to Sub Pop. "I might look like a hippie, but I actually have much disdain for hippies."
"Hippies were cool, but cocaine destroyed them," Pecknold says, wrapping both hands around his warm cup of coffee. "Cocaine and Charles Manson. As soon as 1970 hit, everyone in L.A., instead of being all free love or whatever, they all moved into these big mansions, these big locked compounds. All the music became really inward focused; '70s music is way more self-centered. It's not bad; it's good to evaluate the self, or whatever..."
Note ignorance of what hippie means (or at least what it used to mean). Boils down to: "I am not a hippie because hippies are rich, reclusive, 70s coke freaks. I'm more into free love or whatever."
― contenderizer, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
Oh definitely, I can vouch by address: Vampire Weekend is precisely what you'd come up with if you spent your time in Brooklyn but went back up to campus and felt like your music should be a little more Morningside Heights
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol parochialism
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
No, that's not NYC parochialism -- it's the split between loft party and sunny campus, a vibe I think potential purchasers will intuit pretty much across the country.
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
that's still parochial in a whole bunch of ways tho -- country and class above all.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
uh and age obviously.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
it's the split between loft party and sunny campus
Great description. I saw the Samples and Widespread Panic on that "sunny campus"!
― QuantumNoise, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
Don't get "country" and disagree about age (as if soft spots for "sunny campus" music vanish upon graduation), but mostly I'm just ... are we supposed to be shocked and appalled here by indie releases appealing to market fragments that are not all that different from one another in the big picture???
(Beyond which I feel like that split is actually a huge one right now, indie-wise, and I've been bumping into it while writing for years now -- take indie as an overall market, and there's a huge tension/split shaping up between polite collegiate pop and basement noise/freaks/etc. Part of what first impressed me about VW is that they made the polite-collegiate camp not seem like a lost cause for a second; they're both totally committed to that side and yet somehow not boring or predictable about it. TO ME, obviously.)
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh hai i missed some posts
-- gabbneb, Wednesday, January 30, 2008 11:49 AM (Wednesday, January 30, 2008 11:49 AM) Bookmark Link
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Jordan, Wednesday, January 30, 2008 11:49 AM (Wednesday, January 30, 2008 11:49 AM) Bookmark Link
harder faster stronger
noooo, you don't say. how many of them are actually wasps again? rite. i have a t-shirt w/ a picture of a sailboat on it. i wear it 'ironically'.
They were connected to some of the richest and most powerful students and in the most exclusive clubs at Columbia--
-- burt_stanton, Wednesday, January 30, 2008 12:15 PM (Wednesday, January 30, 2008 12:15 PM) Bookmark Link
haha, burt did you go to columbia? they played a party at the club for the mostly-ignored boarding school kids, which they seem to have regarded from a mildly ironic distance, and the artsy kids' co-ed frat.
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
Congrats, you're a Rockist
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
if liking XTC more than vampire weekend is wrong, i don't wanna be right
― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
and i am a rockist pretty much, at least i think i am. i like to rock out.
― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
Yeah but if being better than XTC were required for bands like this to be worth talking about, a whole lot of the internet would have to be devoted to endless discussion and daily re-reviews of Drums & Wires
Wait, did I already do my thing on here? I have a thing! I wait for people to call VW "white guys with guitars" or use the acronym WASP and then I go "STOP CHANGING PEOPLE'S ETHNICITY / PROBABLE RELIGION TO SUIT YOUR ZINGS"
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
And then conversely there are plenty of acts who'd have been considered jam bands by 90s standards that aren't now -- say, Gogol Bordello.
hi dere, my other fave band of late. actual jam bands are pretty much for a specialist audience these days, while the larger audience and aesthetic has diffused into a pretty wide variety of acts/genres - jam is what you put it on/where you find it.
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
I have been waiting for him to be otm so I can drop "Fresh From Nabisco"
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
Judging by the names, only one of them has any being-a-WASP potential
Where do my poor underloved Brazilian Girls fit in?
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah i dunno u guyses are so deep in2da game now i can't really hang w/r/t vampire weekend analysis
on the real tip: i don't even hate it, but the dude's voice reminds me of the decemberists dudes voice, which is kind of a seinfeld dealbreaker kinda deal for me....vocal "man hands" or "close talker" if you will
(also rockist or not, my more than/less than was right as rain)
― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah, and he arguably has the least WASPy aesthetic in the band
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
ok so weve reached the point of the thread where people are just unloading the quips theyve been saving regardless of context
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
that's no quip, that's my wife
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
ugh this band is just boring white guys with guitars from new york
― max, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
only more annoying because they try to be different in this really lame way that isn't convincing
― later arpeggiator, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
u guys forgot to say "wasp"
― jhøshea, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
i listened to the stuff on the myspace and it didn't hold my interest, though i did like the harmonium or whatever it was on one of the tracks. my prediction is that this album will be insanely popular and everyone will play it at their hippie/hipster college parties and love it so much, and then they'll put out another album next year and no one will like it as much and by the end of 2009 no one will care much anymore. a.k.a the clap your hands say yeah story.
― Emily Bjurnhjam, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
― burt_stanton, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
i'm pretty sure that dude's pointing at you guys
― burt_stanton, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol - American class signifiers. I actually think it's apt to discuss class & privilege in connection with this band, not necessarily because of where they hail from, but because they so openly drop the signifiers in their lyrics. In contrast, say, with the critics of Lily Allen who seem to think that it's particularly damning to point out her privileged upbringing - when that's mostly irrelevant to her music - in the case of Vampire Weekend, I do think the band kind of invites that analysis.
― o. nate, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm sorta with Emily. I've only heard the myspace tracks, which are great, v. catchy and pleasant, fascinating from a spot-the-influences standpoint, so I can see why the band might be huge. But the level of excited, detailed and (mostly) intelligent discussion here is throwing me. What's the big deal? Why this band, this record? Is it just the African music angle? Not a slam, I'm genuinely curious...
― contenderizer, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
o. nate going a long way towards answering my question
― contenderizer, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
I actually think it's apt to discuss class & privilege in connection with this band, not necessarily because of where they hail from, but because they so openly drop the signifiers in their lyrics
they drop the overt-upper-crust signifiers by turns ironically and critically. to the extent there are other signifiers, like one of the reviews said, they're not gonna pretend to be poorer or dumber than they are. but i don't see what makes these kids more privileged than yr average suburban punk band, other than that they could actually get into one of the best schools in the country.
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
guyz, having a driver's license is a privilege and NOT a right
wait is he driving the bus or riding on it ?!
― tramp steamer, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
OMG ! both are blue collar signifiers !!
bus riders/drivers are SO POOR !
― tramp steamer, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
i often sat on the backseat of the 79 myself. now that i'm all grown and shit, i tend to take the second-to-last seat or martyr myself in the bendy seats.
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 21:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
the m79 has a real blue collar vibe, it is true
You know, I do have to hand it to these guys for making a record that--even if you don't like it--is intriguing to dissect and think about. I heard CYHSY and it was like watching a toilet flush.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 31 January 2008 22:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
What I want to know is how the sudden popularity of Vampire Weekend affects the other college-age, New England-affiliated indie-pop band featuring a South Asian guy (or actually, two) and a lead singer named Ezra?
― jaymc, Thursday, 31 January 2008 22:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
they're Tufts students; they'll get used to it
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 22:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
;-)
But the level of excited, detailed and (mostly) intelligent discussion here is throwing me.
i think you need to re-read the thread
― max, Thursday, 31 January 2008 22:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
let me sum it up:
burt_stanton: "im bored" nabisco: "youre boring" gabbneb: "something" burt_stanton: "liars are better than vampire weekend"
― max, Thursday, 31 January 2008 22:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
aka cultural criticism
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 31 January 2008 22:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
chaki: "i'm chaki, i like ska"
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 31 January 2008 22:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 22:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
chaki used to post like that. it was charming.
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 22:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, okay, there's a hell of a lot of that. Thread about P-fork upped indie band = guaranteed bickering. But there's also a lot of thoughtful analysis of sounds & sources, class & cultural signifiers, lyrics, etc. And it's been going strong for several days now. Impressive, but baffling.
― contenderizer, Thursday, 31 January 2008 22:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
Is this where I say Whiney OTM? I mean, it's a game of what seem like really small differences, but these guys sound and present themselves and operate very differently from the average indie band. Just in ways that seem natural and subtle enough that they ask for picking-apart.
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 22:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
I mean, I know of several people who Just Aren't Feeling It who saw them when they were first playing live shows, and one of these people just thought "oh, it's some new British pop/rock band" and left, so that seems to happen, too -- but for me, having a band walk onstage, or first grabbing an mp3 off a blog, and having "Mansard Roof" start is like ... honestly not what I would expect to hear from a band in this context, or in these circles.
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 22:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
but these guys sound and present themselves and operate very differently from the average indie band.
I dunno that I buy this. It sounds so sweeping. While sounding in many ways exactly like a lot of other current indie rock, the use of African & ska rhythms & guitar sounds does give VW a unique edge. Plus they reach back to wide-eyed, open-eared 80s indie stuff you don't hear much trace of these days: They Might Be Giants, Violent Femmes, Camper Van Beethoven, etc. That's great, but it doesn't quite set my gears to spinning.
Still, I could see how all the unapologetic posh signifiers might arouse interest, especially from folks used to parsing English pop.
― contenderizer, Thursday, 31 January 2008 22:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
I mean, I know of several people who Just Aren't Feeling It who saw them when they were first playing live shows, and one of these people just thought "oh, it's some new British pop/rock band" and left
the sad thing is britain probably could produce this kind of effete bullshit these days sans guilt, but only relatively recently. to compare them to morrissey (not that i'm a fan but...) is mental.
the campus thing is a factor of the country thing: seems to be very american. obviously the uk has campus universities too, but i would think not in the same way. the ones i visited, people were desperate not to be there. i think one should be appalled by indie releases, tbqh though.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 31 January 2008 22:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
Last Nab Post: That, I get. Boils down to the upbeat Afro-pop and ska elements. Unexpected & fresh-sounding. But hardly mind-blowing.
― contenderizer, Thursday, 31 January 2008 22:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
-- Mr. Que, Thursday, January 31, 2008 2:20 PM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
seriously get off my nuts. your obsession with me is bordering on disturbing at this point. the best observation i made in this thread was the urban outfitters thing.
― chaki, Thursday, 31 January 2008 22:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
gabbneb, your enthusiasm for this band is downright cute. xoxoxo
― chaki, Thursday, 31 January 2008 23:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
guys, people like this band because they write really great and clever pop songs
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 23:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
Haha, who compared them to Morrissey?
I have seen at least one British person, who may or may not have started this message board, saying that he gets and enjoys a "reminded of college" vibe from this, if I'm reading/remembering him correctly.
Contenderizer, that's kinda my point: they play in ways typical of an indie-pop band -- there's no element of musicianship that's leagues away -- but they present differently, and not really because of the African stuff. They totally eschew any of the things bands usually do to give themselves "weight," and yet they're not sentimental/twee, either. They don't do hard and they don't do starry eyes too much. They can coast happily in these spaces that are upbeat but still relaxed, chipper but not entirely pop-focused, and a lot of their songs are things I find it hard to imagine many other bands coming out with. I'm always bad with getting things like this out of my brain, but I really can't think of an act I've heard recently that I can imagine having recorded "Mansard Roof" -- despite the fact that this song is fairly straightforward, not unconventional or anything!
― nabisco, Thursday, 31 January 2008 23:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
and they're rebellious in a nice way like that old british band that invented rock & roll
― gabbneb, Thursday, 31 January 2008 23:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
i like the tone of their instruments and i like the recording and i like the songs and i like their voices. wheee @ this thread
― 6335, Thursday, 31 January 2008 23:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
"chipper"
This is exactly the right word. And agree with gabbneb about the Squeeze-level simple pop greatness of at least a couple tunes.
― contenderizer, Thursday, 31 January 2008 23:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
on the real tip: i don't even hate it, but the dude's voice reminds me of the decemberists dudes voice
He sounds almost exactly nothing like Colin Meloy.
I like their tunes though. It doesn't matter what their influences or background are - they have some tasty melodies and a very nice sense of interlocking rhythms and space in the arrangements.
The dude talking about Sibelius to p4k was pretty goofy though.
― St3ve Go1db3rg, Friday, 1 February 2008 02:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
So in summary this thread is: Vampire Weekend are a band from New York.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 1 February 2008 02:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
t/s: Vampire Weekend vs. these guys: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8htHuugvEAA
(I think the choice is obvious)
― Hurting 2, Friday, 1 February 2008 02:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
pretty unfair if you're serious
― J0rdan S., Friday, 1 February 2008 02:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
Plus they reach back to wide-eyed, open-eared 80s indie stuff you don't hear much trace of these days: They Might Be Giants, Violent Femmes, Camper Van Beethoven, etc.
OTM.
Wry, quirky bands who were liked by college radio types (also maybe include Dead Milkmen, Mojo Nixon, Feelies) and critics alike, but never really LOVED by critics? Bands that were a fun band for R.E.M. fans and DJs and junior high school kids in gifted class...
I can't IMAGINE any of these bands getting the equivalent of a Spin cover and p'fork "recommended" in their day.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Friday, 1 February 2008 02:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
I find their songs to be above average college smart-ass fare. I don't find them to be exceptionally catchy or well-written, but I can't help but feel the indie world has low standards in those categories. I like the dude's guitar playing. As a fan of afro-pop, I sort of think it's cool that they have some afro-pop influence, but the band honestly sounds like they're not all on the same page in this regard.
― Hurting 2, Friday, 1 February 2008 02:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol jordan.
― W4LTER, Friday, 1 February 2008 02:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
?
― J0rdan S., Friday, 1 February 2008 02:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh nothing, just the unfair call. carry on.
― W4LTER, Friday, 1 February 2008 02:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
i mean extra golden have like a dude from africa in them and are way more pointedly afro-centric from vampire weekend
― J0rdan S., Friday, 1 February 2008 03:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah I guess that's true. Ok let me rephrase the question: I don't like this band.
― Hurting 2, Friday, 1 February 2008 03:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
Whiney, you can't imagine Camper Van Beethoven having gotten an Alternative Press cover or a lead CMJ story??
― nabisco, Friday, 1 February 2008 03:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'd say if this were 1992, Vampire Weekend would be featured on 120 Minutes a few times, and maybe worked into an episode of Pete and Pete. I think it's just the state of things that easy going collegiate indie is the mainstream rock style right now.
― burt_stanton, Friday, 1 February 2008 03:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'd say if this were 1992, Vampire Weekend would be featured on 120 Minutes a few times, and maybe worked into an episode of Pete and Pete. I think it's just the state of things that easy going collegiate indie is the mainstream rock style right now. The internet.
― J0rdan S., Friday, 1 February 2008 03:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh yeah, that thing.
― burt_stanton, Friday, 1 February 2008 03:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
We already talked about blinkers upthread, but Burt, if some MTV2-level success is "the mainstream rock style" then I envy you the Daughtry-free world you live in.
Camper Van were on one of the 120 Minutes comp, back in the day.
― nabisco, Friday, 1 February 2008 03:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
I wish you would like them Hurting :(
― St3ve Go1db3rg, Friday, 1 February 2008 03:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
indie aspirational let's call it then. go through the suburbs and you see kids wearing the skinny jeans and shit.. indie's the big style right now. I bet you'd find more highschool kids in the Jersey suburbs listening to Vampire Weekend now than your precious Doughy, whatever that is. I don't think you'd find too many of 'em in 1991 listening to ... the Drop Nineteens or whatever. probably the intetnrets inteterstseeeeeeees
― burt_stanton, Friday, 1 February 2008 04:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
OTM
― Choose Leif, Friday, 1 February 2008 04:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
Back in the day, the audience for indie was much smaller, and information moved much, much slower. Adjusting those differences, though, the level attention accorded VW is pretty much exactly what a promising young indie band would have recieved in the early 90s. Doesn't seem at all surprising.
― contenderizer, Friday, 1 February 2008 05:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm not sure those skinny-jeaned kids are mostly listening to Vampire Weekend though. More likely [emo/grindcore/hardcore band that I've never heard of]
― Hurting 2, Friday, 1 February 2008 06:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
I mean that's the impression I get from the indie-looking high school kids who work at coffee shops around here
― Hurting 2, Friday, 1 February 2008 06:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
I think it just boils down to I don't like the cut of their jibs. I can't completely explain it.
― Hurting 2, Friday, 1 February 2008 06:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
Whiney, you can't imagine Camper Van Beethoven having gotten an Alternative Press cover or a lead CMJ story??-- nabisco, Friday, 1 February 2008 03:43 (3 hours ago) Link
-- nabisco, Friday, 1 February 2008 03:43 (3 hours ago) Link
Hell no! They were a great art-novelty, not a magazine cover band. They saved that for shit like The Cure or The Pixies or Gene Loves Jezebel or something.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Friday, 1 February 2008 06:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
Vampire Weekend is way too flowery for me. Whats wrong with music? Indie has become fused with flowers and violins. and not in the good way.
― CaptainLorax, Friday, 1 February 2008 07:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
For instance, that Final Fantasy guy did a good job with He Poos Clouds. Belle and Sebastian worked cuz all the instruments went together. They weren't mixing genres.
― CaptainLorax, Friday, 1 February 2008 07:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
now we're down to nude spocks talking to each other
― gabbneb, Friday, 1 February 2008 15:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
They were a great art-novelty, not a magazine cover band.
oh, I think by Key Lime Pie and a #1 modern rock hit they were up to Gene Loves Jezebel levels of notoriety.
― da croupier, Friday, 1 February 2008 15:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
Next step -- the airy heights of the Mighty Lemon Drops.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 1 February 2008 15:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
let's talk about The Ocean Blue again.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 1 February 2008 15:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
Boy that Innocence Mission lemme tell ya.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 1 February 2008 15:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
"You wanted the best and you got the best, the hottest band in the world -- THE MILLTOWN BROTHERS!"
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 1 February 2008 15:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
I've been having "A-Punk" stuck in my head.
― The Reverend, Friday, 1 February 2008 15:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 1 February 2008 15:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
Belle and Sebastian worked cuz all the instruments went together. They weren't mixing genres.
what
― St3ve Go1db3rg, Friday, 1 February 2008 15:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
suburbs of mexico city ?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ru5dsbVOwzQ
or london ?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bEqXcG_9dK0
― tramp steamer, Saturday, 2 February 2008 00:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
DUDES, LETTERMAN TONITE. OMG WTF.
― gabbneb, Saturday, 2 February 2008 02:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
Dudes, just because a band has "notoriety" doesn't mean they get magazine covers. Not that CVB isn't great, but putting them on your magazine cover in 1984 is like putting Cake on your magazine cover in 1994 or Electric Six in 2004.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 2 February 2008 02:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
that's why i was referring to the band in 1989
― da croupier, Saturday, 2 February 2008 03:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
Would you call this band an internet phenomenon? I remember reading about them in the NYC media even as early as late 2006 as being the "next big thing".
― burt_stanton, Saturday, 2 February 2008 03:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
Even though they were less alt-leaning back then, isn't the equivalent of a Spin magazine cover in 1989 "a Spin magazine cover"?
Spin covers in 1989: Mick Jagger, Elvis Costello, U2, Tom Petty...
Also:
You're nuts!
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 2 February 2008 04:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
How would Vampire Weekend not perfectly slot into that 1989 college radio top 10?
― scottpl, Saturday, 2 February 2008 04:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
It looks like all of those bands are waaaaaaaaay established; I'm surprised you don't see Dinosaur Jr. on there ... I thought that's what all the college kids listened to back then.
― burt_stanton, Saturday, 2 February 2008 04:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
Chris, aren't you underestimating the "notoriety" that this band is/will get? I'd reckon this is going to be the biggest indie rock debut since Arcade Fire's, which was three-plus years ago. If SNL comes back, they'll play that. They could be on a Spin cover this year. They'll make the P&J top 10. I've not had time to keep up with 600 posts, so apologies if I miss the point and we're lamenting that it's come to this rather than saying it will never happen, but these dudes are turning into (relatively) a rather big deal.
― scottpl, Saturday, 2 February 2008 04:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
I unwittingly went to Amoeba during their in-store which was probably the most I've ever seen it during an in-store. The music was utterly unmemorable, but there was some cute banter. Mostly I was annoyed that people were blocking my access to the music sections I wanted to go to.
― Alex in SF, Saturday, 2 February 2008 05:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
scottpl, you missed my point.
I'm saying they would fit GREAT in that playlist. They even remind of bands like CVB, Violent Femmes, Feelies, They Might Be Giants. But these are bands (and bands i LIKE) for cult followings and novelty hits--not Spin magazine covers
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 2 February 2008 05:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
Cutesy funtime novelty alt-rock bands don't traditionally get this type of noterity is what I'm saying. It would be like Cake being on the cover of Rolling Stone.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 2 February 2008 05:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
God, this is so depressing.
― Tape Store, Saturday, 2 February 2008 05:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
What's depressing? You mean this thread?
― dell, Saturday, 2 February 2008 05:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
Whiney, I think you're right on some of the comparisons, but the way VW are and will be received this year is absolutely the OPPOSITE of "novelty band." Their whole selling point is that they've put together the sort of comfy indie record people can leave playing in their stereos for months on end, one of those all-day basics people will listen to in pretty much any mood. That's not a novelty, it's bread-and-butter stuff for chipper-indie fans.
― nabisco, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
Unwarranted hype (including parts of this thread, yes)
― Tape Store, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
Their whole selling point is that they've put together the sort of comfy indie record people can leave playing in their stereos for months on end, one of those all-day basics people will listen to in pretty much any mood.
This is exactly right. Which is why it's befuddling to me that band that SOUNDS like weirdo-novelty '80s college-rock trifle (flirts with world music, quirky cutie-pie lyrics about things like grammar, ska parts) is being taken as SERIOUS BAND 2008.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
"Cape Cod Kwassa Kwassa" Vs. "ZZ Top Goes To Egypt"
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
wait when were they on da cover of spin ?
― tramp steamer, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
In further summary, Vampire Weekend are STILL a band from New York.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
Replace "Spin" in this thread with "Option" and everything makes a lot more sense. In the early 90s, it took cute little indie bands quite a while to work up to the Spin cover level. But you could get an Option cover in '85 with quite a bit less label muscle/money behind you. And I think that's about where VW are.
― contenderizer, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm curious as to what other bands' debuts garnered such a lengthy thread in such a short time in ILM's past. I can recall M.I.A.'s Arular being a pretty huge thread from the get-go. What were some of the others? Lily Allen?
― dell, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ha, Whiney, maybe we've found the slipping point: what exactly are you interpreting as "SERIOUS BAND 2008," as opposed to "HEY, FUN BAND LOADS OF PEOPLE WILL ENJOY 2007?" I can't say I've seen a shred of press on these guys that offers anything in the way of "mindblowing" or "amazing" or "future-of-music" praise -- as opposed to a lot of gushing about how their sound is charming and their album is the sort of all-day basic (etc.) described above.
Although speaking of young-band, I can't believe I'm going to say this just days after their debut is released, but the new songs they've been playing make me fear they're going to try and get actually-more-African, which is not the best idea for them at all! They've got time, though.
― nabisco, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
I meant 2008 that second time.
― nabisco, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
They're just a big fuckin' deal right now!
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
Rumored Spin cover, Spin lead review, TWO reviews in the Village Voice, tons of coverage in the New York Times and NPR, Pitchfork endorsement, 700-reply ILX post, bloggers being bloggers
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
And the consensus is that this is "just the beginning"
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
OPENING SOON FOR THE ROLLING STONES 8 MILLION GRAMMYS PLATINUM-LEVEL RINGLES VAMPIREWEEKENDMEETSCLOVERFIELD.COM
Or not.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
You're evading my point, dude: why does lots of press coverage equate to "SERIOUS BAND," as opposed to "well-liked band?" Not to sound cheesy here, but ... people are also interested in hearing about bands that win their hearts without changing the universe! And the job of the press is not solely to gatekeep for universe-changers, but also to inform people about acts they may be really fond of.
― nabisco, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ha, "it's just harmless fun" vs "no, warning: this thing is more powerful than you can even imgagine!"
― dell, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
REMEMBER BACK WHEN U GUYS ONLY USED TO TALK ABOUT TRADITIONALLY-HYPED BANDS LIKE M I A ???
― tramp steamer, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
More like the Beatles of 2008!
― dell, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
I feel like I'm allowing the point that they're somehow harmless/ordinary/interesting, where I don't entirely concede that -- I think they're that sort of band, kinda, but obviously I find them pretty interesting, too.
― nabisco, Saturday, 2 February 2008 06:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
Vampire Weekend storms the line of demarcation that separates indie pop and soft rock, and the crowd goes wild!
― Tape Store, Saturday, 2 February 2008 07:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
You're evading my point, dude: why does lots of press coverage equate to "SERIOUS BAND," as opposed to "well-liked band?"
Could you imagine They Might Be Giants getting GLOWING reviews and ENORMOUS features for their first album, even if they were popular among the 1986 equivalent of people that look at blogs?
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 2 February 2008 07:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
I mean Widespread Panic is a "well-liked band" but they're certainly not a CULTURAL EVENT like this is shaping up to be.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 2 February 2008 07:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
Lillith Fair, Freak-Folk Fest, Cape Cod Clambake...
― dell, Saturday, 2 February 2008 07:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
CULTURAL EVENT
dude cover of spin and two reviews in the village voice does not a cultural event make
― max, Saturday, 2 February 2008 08:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
once again, i find myself wishing i could raise one eyebrow in a quizzical way.
so fuckin' average.
― grimly fiendish, Saturday, 2 February 2008 09:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm looking forward to them shifting influences a la Beirut and doing an album of cockney-knees-up influence tinged stuff.
These guys only ever make me want to put the Dirty Projectors on, for some reason.
― Mister Craig, Saturday, 2 February 2008 09:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
this is a pretty fucking big album
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 2 February 2008 09:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
i mean it's outselling jack johnson on itunes right now
in terms of debuts, what's been bigger (i.e. most heavily bantered about) this decade right from the jump? you're looking at lionized early decade nyc stuff (strokes, interpol, yyy etc.) then what m.i.a. or arcade fire? even arcade fire only jumped off because of pitchfork and m.i.a. didn't lead review in spin. that may speak to accelerated hype cycle, but i still think it says more about the band/album.
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 2 February 2008 09:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
really. that eyebrow is straining.
― grimly fiendish, Saturday, 2 February 2008 09:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah i should note that jack johnson is a pre-order but still
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 2 February 2008 09:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
Their singer was a Dirty Projectors associate / touring member, I believe!
― nabisco, Saturday, 2 February 2008 14:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
Which is why it's befuddling to me that band that SOUNDS like weirdo-novelty '80s college-rock trifle (flirts with world music, quirky cutie-pie lyrics about things like grammar, ska parts) is being taken as SERIOUS BAND 2008.
haha what SERIOUS BAND 2008 doesn't sound like some '80s college rock trifle?
― da croupier, Saturday, 2 February 2008 14:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
also what '80s college rock trifle wasn't treated like a serious band? shit, people thought Jason & The Scorchers were important.
― da croupier, Saturday, 2 February 2008 14:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
how can a band that sounds like PUNK ROCK be having a #1 album in the early nineties? HOMINAHOMINAHOMINA!
― da croupier, Saturday, 2 February 2008 14:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
btw, is that just some random month from 1989's College Rock Top 30? Key Lime Pie came out in september '89 and "Pictures Of Matchstick Men" was the #1 modern rock hit in november '89. if that was a year-long tally, I'm sure it would have placed above Band of Susans.
― da croupier, Saturday, 2 February 2008 15:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
I mean, if that covered the entire year, I'm sure New Order beat the Dickies.
― da croupier, Saturday, 2 February 2008 15:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
ok yeah according to the jpg file name that's the July 1989 Top 30. Good job proving nothing!
― da croupier, Saturday, 2 February 2008 15:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
"Pictures Of Matchstick Men" was the #1 modern rock hit in november '89
To the spincovermobile!
That's still like giving the Butthole Surfers the cover for "pepper"
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 2 February 2008 16:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
The list was just showing that CVB was like on some third tier of bands in comparison to all that was going on in 1989. Good job zinging nobody!
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 2 February 2008 16:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
I never said they'd get the cover of Spin, I was saying they were as big as Gene Loves Jezebel.
― da croupier, Saturday, 2 February 2008 16:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'll give em that.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 2 February 2008 16:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
I said CVB were too hot, you said they were too cold, while in reality they were juuuuust right.
we should get back to making fun of Vampire Weekend and the people who can't say anything about them other than they're really good writers! just so good they're good! so good everybody talks about the fact that the guitar player refs afropop instead.
― da croupier, Saturday, 2 February 2008 16:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
also does jimmy buffett fit in this? do people like him for his rich mix of influences or just that his music is really really really pleasant and good?
― da croupier, Saturday, 2 February 2008 16:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
People at my college paper in Florida listened to Jimmy Buffett. I would always ask, "Are you a tourist?"
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 2 February 2008 16:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
― gabbneb, Saturday, 2 February 2008 16:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
Looking more closely, I just think that you're fundamentally placing VW in the wrong drawer here Chris. Sure, VW have some quirk to them, but "pepper", tmbg, cake, cvb? They're not exactly telling jokes or smirking through their words. As nabisco has said, the relative simplicity of their music doesn't scream "urgent and key"-- they don't go for the emotional nourishment thing that kids get out of your Death Cabs or Belle & Sebastians, or the We Are Important bombast a la Arcade Fire or U2 or the serious sonic explorations of any number of bands. But they seem to be mischaracterized here, condescendingly patted on the head and lumped in with those more haha groups just because they also immediately hit a listener's pleasure zone.
Instead, I think they're essentially off-kilter, upbeat guitar pop, with-- in comparison to their peers-- something singular about both their music (e.g. not just the touches of African pop but their willingness to use space and let the songs breathe a bit) and their lyrics (detail-heavy, expressive; too bad they're images of wealth instead of poverty, otherwise they'd be critical manna): And that characterization seems to be more in line with, say, REM, Madness, OJ, Femmes, Squeeze, XTC, Blur, Pixies, Spoon, Supergrass, Strokes, etc.-- bands that, at least eventually, made inroads with audiences. Not saying they're as good as those bands, but that seems to be what the people who like VW get from them, not this Camper/TMBG notion.
So yeah, I get that indie pop is this indie stepchild-- and that indie's had a long, slow, often punchable post-Nirvana road from punk/hardcore to the worst elements of college rock (you can't toss a rock across the blogosphere without hitting two dozen interchangeable examples of collegiate, bookish, drab MOR tunesmithery), which although VW are almost a parody of "college rock" on paper, they don't make me yawn the way 90% of blog bands do. Instead, I personally really do find this record extremely refreshing and even singular-- for very uncomplicated, sometimes even uncritical reasons-- and apparently so do a lot of ppl. (aka nabisco otm in this thread)
― scottpl, Saturday, 2 February 2008 17:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
hell, I don't even mean to claim that all those bands (REM, etc) are good - but this seems to be where a VW listener would bracket the band. Those are the other groups that one might get the same sorts of things from that they're getting from VW, not friggin Cake!
― scottpl, Saturday, 2 February 2008 17:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
so, what hard working fully-deserving blue collar band of high school graduates that released an album in the last week of january did Vampire Weekend steal all the thunder from ?
― tramp steamer, Saturday, 2 February 2008 19:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
if VW recorded a "Big Time" or "Sledgehammer," it might sound like "I Turn My Camera On."
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 2 February 2008 19:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
-- gabbneb, Sunday, January 27, 2008 12:11 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
yeah because obviously the boston in new england was an original coinage and not named after the town in lincolnshire where the settlers came from.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Sunday, 3 February 2008 00:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
― gabbneb, Sunday, 3 February 2008 14:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
-- tramp steamer, Saturday, February 2, 2008 2:08 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link
Blue collar? It's a service economy now - where you been?
― Hurting 2, Sunday, 3 February 2008 15:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
Baby-boomer blogger Bob Lefsetz weighs in:
Last night I caught Vampire Weekend on the Letterman show. They were awful. It used to be important to be first, to be on the cutting edge, to KNOW! And those who knew weren't so interested in letting the hoi polloi in on their newfound favorites, but they laughed when the mainstream finally caught on. There was a clear division between who and what was hip, and the unwashed masses. Then, in the late MTV era, the mainstream and the hip merged. We all watched the same shows, we all reveled in the economic run-up of the late twentieth century. Then the Internet era hit. We're on media overload. No one can keep up. Everybody's an expert in their own little niche. Still, there are those who sit on high, mostly baby boomers and fortysomethings, divining what is hip, what is cool. Only this time, they want to let you know how cool they are. They want to TELL YOU! Used to be it took years for a band to reach public consciousness. Now it might take a month. From insiders to the casual listener, within that period of time, we can all know. Because of modern communication methods. Furthermore, there's no screening process, no winnowing of the wheat from the chaff. Everything can be served up right now. It doesn't have to break through because of its essence, the hype can deliver a ray of light to almost anything. And when you take a look at this something...too often you're disappointed. Used to be I didn't want to feel out of the loop. I had to be on it. But that doesn't make any difference anymore. Oh, I might be interested in the news, Microsoft's hostile offer for Yahoo, but when it comes to art, everything's fresh when I find it. Whether it be today or two years from now. Still, there are people dunning me for not being on it, not being in the know. Didn't I get the memo? Like a baby boomer rock critic yesterday. Chiding me for only picking up on "Raising Sand" this week. Well, that's not exactly true. I was aware the album was coming out long before it was released. Heard some songs I didn't love on the radio before the album hit the store. Even had a disc copy. I didn't want to spend the time digesting the record, not based on what I'd heard already. But, eventually Sirius served up a track and I found it. When I was ready. That was fine for me. But not for the prognosticators of cool. I was behind the curve. I could turn this into a pissing contest. And speak of what I'm following, what I'm up to the minute on. But that's not the point. The point is we're all following our own muse, our own interest, with 300 TV channels and an endless Web, never mind video games, cell phones... I feel self-satisfied that I didn't fall for the Vampire Weekend hype. I laugh at those who've been trumpeting the act, like it's the second coming. THIS IS IT? You're spending all your time working THIS? Yes, the trendmongers need something to hype, to make themselves feel good. The rest of the world tunes in, for a brief moment, and then tunes out. Sure, an occasional work is great and sustains, but almost nothing does. It's like the movie business. Films are here for a weekend or two, then gone. You remember who you went to the theatre with, maybe even what you ate, but not the flick. And those flicks you do remember seem to start off off the radar and grow slowly, like "Juno". The cognoscenti weren't on "Juno". The newspapers weren't saying to watch for the opening weekend gross. Small movies can't make it. But this one did. The AUDIENCE BUILT IT! So those of you trying to generate buzz, trying to be first and superior, that game is done. We're just looking for SOMETHING good. We don't care if we're first or last, we just want fulfillment. Kind of like that anti-Tipping Point screed making the rounds. Used to be that trends were started by individuals and grown from the center. But now there is no center. If you believe there's a center, you're missing the point. There are a thousand points of light. Growing slowly. Will they all merge into a homogeneous whole? Maybe. Maybe not. And, if not, that doesn't mean the work is substandard, just not ubiquitous. At this point in time, if I'm being worked, if all the hipsters are hyping me on something, I'm turned off...
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 3 February 2008 16:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
this fool sounds like a Beltway pundit just back from "Meet the Press."
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 3 February 2008 16:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
he's talking balls about 'juno'.
It's like the movie business. Films are here for a weekend or two, then gone.
this is how it always used to be duh. if anything films *hang around* too long "now" thanks to um television, video, dvd.
still he is right that vampire weekend suck.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Sunday, 3 February 2008 16:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
I know it's a losing battle, but I actually wrote Bob about the Vampire Weekend thing. How he can't respect a band that can emerge from the music industry junk heap is beyond me, but hey, he's still loving that new Eagles album.
― fukasaku tollbooth, Sunday, 3 February 2008 18:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
I just scanned that whole thing looking for any kind of comment that was actually about Vampire Weekend and/or their music, but I didn't catch any.
I'd forgotten another thing that wound up cut from the Pfork review (I'm bad at word counts): how I'd like to say that the upper-class vibe is somehow irrelevant to their music, but it's not; it's a minor selling point, definitely. I'm not yet sure why this is a problem. I'm not a person who'd ever cut up a goat's head, but if I want to feel a little bit like I am for 30 minutes, I can put on some Mayhem. And while Koenig only sings the phrase "adjust my tie" once on this record, the whole thing does have a sly, urbane, tie-adjusting feel to it. Someone used the word "aspirational" upthread, and yeah: I'm not sure why it would surprising for people to enjoy soaking in a little of that vibe for the length of this record.
― nabisco, Sunday, 3 February 2008 19:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
it's because rich people are douchebags.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Sunday, 3 February 2008 19:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, that commentary is kind of unfocused and pointless, but I do generally agree with his "this is it?" feeling about them, and I do agree that the changing media landscape seems to have led to a lot of bands being pushed in front of our faces when they could use another 30 minutes in the oven.
― Hurting 2, Sunday, 3 February 2008 19:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
xp, lol
― gabbneb, Sunday, 3 February 2008 19:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
REAX: Is the term "prep rock" being thrown around too much in explaining your sound? EK: It all depends on what they mean by "prep rock." If by "prep" they mean "of or relating to blue and white striped, collared shirts," I'm all for it. That's the kind of bizarre, synaesthetic comparison that I like. If they mean "rock made by people who went to a certain type of American private school," they should re-evaluate. They probably don't even know who the real prep-rockers are. If someone feels strongly that they should know where their favorite bands went to high school, they should start researching.
I do generally agree with his "this is it?" feeling about them
what were you expecting exactly?
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 3 February 2008 19:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
I generally agree with my Is This It? feeling about them
― nabisco, Sunday, 3 February 2008 20:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
^otm
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 3 February 2008 20:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
The thing is I can't buy into the aspirational element of Vampire Weekend because I don't find it convincing but I also don't hear a genuinely purposeful sense of irony about it. It's not that I have a problem with high-end brand references and boating, it's that I hear a bunch of kids who sound like they're awkwardly clumping around in their dads' too-big top siders.
― Hurting 2, Sunday, 3 February 2008 20:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
I think Lefsetz's problem is that he's looking for 'durable' acts that can generate a career's worth of music. While he's sometimes ahead of the curve on music industry questions, it's evident that his generation really struggles to understand that the future of music is one of uncertainty and chance, with a handful of emergent acts.
but really i think he expected the return of rock 'n' roll from a band named vampire weekend and he got the sperry topsiders of indie rock.
― fukasaku tollbooth, Sunday, 3 February 2008 20:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
I haven't heard vampire weekend yet, but if he's using Juno as an example of something GREAT that the audience built, then I already don't believe anything else he says.
― Dan S, Sunday, 3 February 2008 20:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://youtube.com/watch?v=E5E1SlBN0jA This song starts out pretty cool but the vocal is just so amateurish
― Hurting 2, Sunday, 3 February 2008 20:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://internetvibes.blogspot.com/2005/11/post-hippie-domesticity_11.html
he doesn't say precisely what vibe his parents give off, but one could speculate. my parents just slightly precede the hippie generation, and in any event have never really participated in pop culture, music-wise, but i am well-familiar with the vibe in question.
i could very well be projecting, but my hunch is that at least some of them, koenig especially, have an ironic relationship with this stuff. they encountered it when they went to school with people who are richer than they are, or who are rich for different reasons, or who are where they are to a greater extent because they are rich than because they're intellectually-inclined. why do you assume their parents wear topsiders?
― gabbneb, Sunday, 3 February 2008 20:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
ahahaha that video that hurting posted is like watching michael cera do an impression of vampire weekend
― uptown churl, Sunday, 3 February 2008 21:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
this comparison with nirvana is interesting.. i don't mean the style of course, but attitude to music, idea, freshness.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Sunday, 3 February 2008 21:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
koenig especially, have an ironic relationship with this stuff. they encountered it when they went to school with people who are richer than they are, or who are rich for different reasons, or who are where they are to a greater extent because they are rich than because they're intellectually-inclined
But semi-privileged kids having an ironic sensibility about even more privileged kids kind of lacks bite.
― Hurting 2, Sunday, 3 February 2008 21:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
And the point isn't really whether they are or are not actually privileged and to exactly what degree and whether or not their parents could afford the top boarding school or sent them to Stuyvesant but had private SAT tutors or whatever. It's more that they seem to be striking some kind of pose regarding privilege but I don't find that pose very clear or convincing.
― Hurting 2, Sunday, 3 February 2008 21:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
I’ve been listening to the album all weekend, wanting to like it… but, I can’t. My big problem is that it doesn’t seem to have any real urgency or purpose, like the whole thing is too music for people without problems. Part of that is probably the class signifiers, like it’s all just a joke or else a version of “Don’t Worry, Be Happy” for people with Italian sofas.
― Lamp, Sunday, 3 February 2008 21:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm going to stick my neck out and say Vampire Weekend = most reneged on artist of 2009.
― Hurting 2, Sunday, 3 February 2008 21:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
perhaps your problem of perception lies in your belief that they are striking a 'pose'
― gabbneb, Sunday, 3 February 2008 22:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh come on of course they're striking a pose, in the way that all bands cant help but do. their pose happens to be particularly well calculated and timed, sort of a nanny diaries or gossip girl for boys, and is making people get all in a tizzy taking imaginary sides on imaginary dichotomies like 'style v substance' or 'realness v fakeness' 'sincerity v insincerity' precisely because the pose is so front and center while simultaneously seeming natural and shamless, carefreee. and who doesnt want to feel carefree? i know plenty of people with problems who love VW. i have problems and i dont like them
― uptown churl, Monday, 4 February 2008 01:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
MO MONEY MO PROBLEMZ
― tramp steamer, Monday, 4 February 2008 03:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat the living fuck does any of that mean
― remy bean, Monday, 4 February 2008 03:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
don't trust rich people in Topsiders and no socks.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 4 February 2008 03:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
their songs are not good ok?
― Hurting 2, Monday, 4 February 2008 03:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
Spinning it for the last few days in the car and quite like it. Certainly not a world-changer but exceedingly pleasant. Backlash seems quite out-of-place for the content.
― zaxxon25, Monday, 4 February 2008 18:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
what? 14 hours and no new post for this thread?the hype is over?! anyway, beside strokes,paul simon,talking heads and spoon, i hear a lot of "raincoats" on this album, and i like it.(and i don't mean on the lyrics of "a punk")
― Zeno, Monday, 4 February 2008 18:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
Actually, a bit what Zaxxon said, though in this case I was in someone's car listening to it yesterday. I don't think I'll need to hear it again but it was what it was.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 4 February 2008 18:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
i like tha fact that they don't try to impress the listener. or at least thats what i feel. as oppose to many of the recent years "hype" bands.
― Zeno, Monday, 4 February 2008 18:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
backlash isn't against bands, it's against hype
― roxymuzak, Monday, 4 February 2008 18:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
(most of the time)
If bands are "important" to the degree that people pay attention, then Vampire Weekend are important, at least for the moment. MSM is obsessed with the internet, and music blogs are obsessed with first-posting the indie-pop flavor of the week. That makes this kind of flashmob pigpile unsurprising, especially if the band is actually likely to sell. It's not hype; it's simultaneous head-turning.
Anyway, I don't think this band even exists. Vampire Weekend are taking place entirely withing SFJ's head, as he settles some sort of bet with himself.
― contenderizer, Monday, 4 February 2008 18:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
My first exposure to this band was their appearance on Letterman. I flipped it on about a minute after it had started. I guessed that it was Vampire Weekend and waited around til the end of their performance to see if I was right. Dave seemed to like them a lot, I wasn't really impressed.
― Trip Maker, Monday, 4 February 2008 19:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
Dave has impeccable taste. Their Letterman performance wasn't the best.
― gabbneb, Monday, 4 February 2008 19:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
There was actually some moment in the mid-90s where I realized that while TV sound is always bad, Letterman's is somehow even worse; you'd think VW would be would be pretty easy to handle, sound-wise, but the bass seemed to get lost on this one. TV exposes their youngness and newness, too -- they're not the kind of band that's going to come across very commanding.
I kind of feel bad for bands, hinging promotional efforts on TV appearances -- it's a pretty awkward format for making first impressions!
― nabisco, Monday, 4 February 2008 19:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah, everyone sounds shitty on Letterman
― gabbneb, Monday, 4 February 2008 19:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
Sound was definitely thin. I was pleased that I correctly guessed who it was after only reading about them, though.
― Trip Maker, Monday, 4 February 2008 19:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
#22 on the UK charts NOT BAD
― tramp steamer, Monday, 4 February 2008 21:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
Christgau on Shepherd on Vampire Weekend.
Aaaaand... go.
― Douglas, Monday, 4 February 2008 22:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
haha
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 4 February 2008 22:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
Summarized thusly: "If you're going to pick on VW (a) know your referents; (b) don't question their socio-political motivations."
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 4 February 2008 22:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh no! being read by xgau! oh no!
― gabbneb, Monday, 4 February 2008 22:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
I was about to say I promise to stop harping on VW as shitty afropop as that's obviously not what they're going for/people are getting out of it, but then xgau had to go and remind us the band calls their sound "Upper West Side Soweto" so nuts to that.
― da croupier, Monday, 4 February 2008 22:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
if people are digging VW as a brighter Shins or Nu-Hoboken or whatever, swellsville, but obv the band hasn't picked up on that.
― da croupier, Monday, 4 February 2008 22:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
Anthony you have no idea of the struggles we face every day in Morningside Heights, me and Vampire Weekend and Nellie McKay
― nabisco, Monday, 4 February 2008 22:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
No but seriously, here is one spot where we can agree completely: it would definitely not behoove this band to start thinking that Africa is their selling point, or that they need to approach African music more, or more authentically.
― nabisco, Monday, 4 February 2008 22:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
it would definitely not behoove this band to start thinking that Africa is their selling point
but don't they already?!
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 4 February 2008 22:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
it's probably what keeps their phish-head drummer around, you know.
― da croupier, Monday, 4 February 2008 22:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
I dunno. Wouldn't hurt to update the image a little.
― contenderizer, Monday, 4 February 2008 23:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
Where is cover of Bwana Zoulou LP when you need it?
― contenderizer, Monday, 4 February 2008 23:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
'selling point'
― gabbneb, Monday, 4 February 2008 23:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
so i'm hearing this album in full for the first time, and yeah, afropop isn't what comes to mind. The French Kicks come to mind.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 02:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
it's really a shame that the news angle annoyed me so, as I might have missed out on the best French Kicks album yet.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 02:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
though "cape cod kwassa kwassa" still sucks hairy ass. god, i really DO hope they don't move further from post-feelies into post-sting.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 02:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
as much as musically the band really just indulges in a little nonspecific afro-tropical whimsy here and there around the standard NYC sound (I actually feel kinda conned after the singles/articles!), I'm actually curious if fans actually LIKE the lispy patois the singer affects on those numbers. Isn't it kind of grating-to-offensive? or do people think he pulls it off English Beat/Rancid style?
― da croupier, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 03:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
obv you're free to feel Dave Wakeling and Tim Armstrong don't really pull it off either
― da croupier, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 03:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'd trouble distinguishing Wakeling from Ranking Roger at first, so I'm no judge.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 03:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
and actually I might prefer that french kicks album called trial of the century or something, the one with the skin on the cover.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 03:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
-- da croupier, Monday, 4 February 2008 22:42 (2 days ago) Link
Say what you will about The Shins, they have tunes and a strong singer. I don't think we can say as much about Vampire Weekend thus far, so I'm not seeing big things for them.
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 05:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
If Mowgli ever formed a band with his jungle friends, they would sound like Vampire Weekend...just imagine Baloo puffing on panpipes....throwing in a bunch of chattering 'eh-eh-eh-ehs' that would ricochet coconuts off trees faster than Keef..."
From today's NME. Lorks, that's awful.
― Mister Craig, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 11:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
Good grief.
― Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 11:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
But anyway, what I wanted to say, besides "OMG @ THIS THREAD" and the various other insane and lengthy discussions about this band and their socio-political status (who says Americans don't care about class as much as the British?) that I've seen, is that...
People talk about them, quite frequently, as "lacking passion" or "bile" or "hunger" or whatever, my inference from this being that Vampire Weekend don't "care" about what they're doing (in the eyes of the person who conceives them as being lacking passion). Clearly I don't think this at all, or I wouldn't be posting. But the reason I don't think this is the case at all is the level of attention to detail and sound and arrangement that is apparent on the album - to me this smacks way more of "giving a fuck" than... who was the last new band with guitars who got praised for giving a fuck? It's the same thing that I got from Guillemots - these people really care what their music sounds like, they really want people to enjoy it, for it to be fun and interesting and positive and beautiful. So sure, with Guillemots there's a Brazilian influence at times (the guitarist's Brazilian), but not enough to bitch about them stealing Sao Paulo's soul in a callous and calculated business plan (I know a little about Brazilian music but really not much at all). I know next to nothing about African music be it pop or anything else - I've got a couple of Fela albums, the best of Ethiopiques, and bugger all else - and I've heard Graceland, outside of that song about being called Al, all of once straight through, and it wouldn't strike me without this brouhaha that VW were stealing or mocking African music anymore than that they were stealing or mocking The Specials or Ski Sunday. This is just pop music. It sounds like some other bits of pop music like all pop music ever has. If the words piss you off a little then pay attention to the drums or the guitars or keys or strings because they're ace (it strikes me that Rostam Batmanglij is WAY more important to what I'm getting out of this band than Ezra Koenig is). If the words piss you off a LOT, listen to Mogwai.
I'm just flabbergasted by the reaction this is getting on here and around the internet. It's a decent little pop record put together beautifully! Everyone I've played it to who isn't a music journalist or internet hardman critic has really enjoyed it.
― Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 11:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
It's a lovely record, and I'm killing it on repeat. There's a touch too much overthinking going on here - odd, really, since many people's problem with the band is the perception that they're on the clever-clever side.
― Matthew H, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 12:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
Based on a couple visits to their myspace, inspired by talk here, I don't like the drumming, and the rest is not interesting enough to compensate.
― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 13:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
Everyone I've played it to who isn't a music journalist or internet hardman critic has really enjoyed it.
My two co-workers (neither is a critic) who've played it at work after downloading it out of curiosity basically had the reaction of "eh, whatever," not getting what the big deal is either way.
(my girlfriend likes 'em, though)
― da croupier, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 14:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
debuted at #17 in da US !
― tramp steamer, Thursday, 7 February 2008 02:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
on what charts???
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
billboard albums...
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
somehow I'm not finding that on billboard
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
Funny thing is real vampires prefer "Hot Girls in Love."
― Terrible Cold, Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://idolator.com/353345/alicia-keys-yep-shes-still-on-top-of-the-album-charts
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
ah ok next week's chart apparently
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1581036/20080206/vampire_weekend.jhtml
(head slowly explodes)
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
there you go
so who's gonna tell us the first week/highest chart positions for the Arctic Monkeys, Feelies, CYHSY, french kicks, etc etc?
― gabbneb, Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
the second AM album debuted in the top ten, and the Feelies never charted. Beyond that, gabbs, run it past your pollsters.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
I have CYHSY - Some Loud Thunder at 47
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
obviously their debut didn't chart because CYHSY was still in the process of inventing the internet
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
comparing vampire weekend, both musically and any other way, to the arctic monkeys is beyond irrelevant
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
or rather beyond stupid, and makes you irrelevant!
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm gonna stick my neck out and say French Kicks didn't chart
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
french kicks were pretty good. sad how quick this shit turns over
― gff, Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
French Kicks' bass player was a friend of mine in high school but haven't talked to him in a long time
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
Don't stick your neck out too far. There are vampires loose.
― Terrible Cold, Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
French Kicks >>> Vampire Weekend > Arctic Monkeys > CYHSY
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
I played this to my Babyshambles-loving housemate, coz I thought he'd love it, and he does.
― Choose Leif, Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
aw, I like CYHSY.
― da croupier, Thursday, 7 February 2008 03:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
Wait, Anthony, you were arguing all this time on this thread and you hadn't even heard the album yet??!?!?!?!
― nabisco, Thursday, 7 February 2008 21:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
Wait, Anthony, you were arguing with yourself all this time on this thread and you hadn't even heard the album yet??!?!?!?!
-- nabisco, Thursday, February 7, 2008 3:34 PM (36 seconds ago) Bookmark Link
fixed
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 7 February 2008 21:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
I heard their tracks on myspace and checked out a bunch of youtubes, but I hadn't heard the album in full, no.
― da croupier, Thursday, 7 February 2008 21:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
partially because the album wasn't out yet and I felt no desire to dl the fucking thing after hearing their tracks on myspace and checking out a bunch of youtubes.
― da croupier, Thursday, 7 February 2008 21:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
so, in summary: haterz ="this is boring music; i dont like to listen to it" loverz ="omg why r u so hung up on class signifiers?"
― uptown churl, Friday, 8 February 2008 00:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
i don't know how to listen to vampire weekend right
― M@tt He1ges0n, Friday, 8 February 2008 00:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
^^^ oa tee yem
― The Reverend, Friday, 8 February 2008 01:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
x-post
maybe a change in wardrobe will help:
― QuantumNoise, Friday, 8 February 2008 01:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
Hey, it's just good pop! The only reason writers are constantly bringing up signifiers is that there's evidently no way to describe what makes a good pop album a good pop album aside from saying "it's just a good pop album!" And when indie rockers say an album is good pop you know its good pop.
― da croupier, Friday, 8 February 2008 02:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
Like, you know, Imperial Bedroom and shit.
― da croupier, Friday, 8 February 2008 02:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
And when indie rockers say an album is good pop you know its good pop. unmemorable but cheerful
― Hurting 2, Friday, 8 February 2008 03:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
This was the top album in Rhapsody this week. Followed by Tom Petty's Greatest Hits. Wild.
― fukasaku tollbooth, Friday, 8 February 2008 12:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
Vampire Weekend = Momus fans, apparently. But not the inverse.
http://imomus.livejournal.com/350070.html
― Zelda Zonk, Friday, 8 February 2008 12:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
LOL momus doesn't like anything unless he thinks it's 'weird'
besides, when they said 'fans' they were talking about his writing and not his music
"Often, long after the initial, rebuffed contact from these artists [AND LONG AFTER THEY'D BECOME SUPER-FAMOUS AND SUCCESSFUL], I'd realize that they really had something."
― tramp steamer, Friday, 8 February 2008 21:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol @ momus posting a black dice youtube there. remember the thread where he was the last person to find out about black dice?
― Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Friday, 8 February 2008 21:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
Momus really comes across like a dick in that post.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Friday, 8 February 2008 21:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
(ill go ahead and get it over with)
"in that post"
― J0rdan S., Friday, 8 February 2008 21:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
I was waiting for that. Hell, I almost threw that in myself.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Friday, 8 February 2008 21:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm glad Momus has come to grips his lack of any real talent artistic success!
― Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Friday, 8 February 2008 22:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
"but it's cool, because i don't want to be famous anyway, so nyah"
― Jordan, Friday, 8 February 2008 22:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
Momus makes some pretty good music. I just think he's ridiculously stubborn and contrarian as a person (taking from 2 years of reading his blog).
― burt_stanton, Friday, 8 February 2008 22:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
Momus hasn't had an original idea ever and lives surrounded by sycophants.
― Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Friday, 8 February 2008 22:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
I love the Kwassa Kwassa song.
― I know, right?, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 20:58 (1 year ago) Permalink
4 0 accident-free days
― contenderizer, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:05 (1 year ago) Permalink
Huh. A struck-out 4 looks exactly like a regular 4. Who knew?
― contenderizer, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:06 (1 year ago) Permalink
― I know, right?, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:22 (1 year ago) Permalink
I know, right?
― contenderizer, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:23 (1 year ago) Permalink
???
― I know, right?, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:24 (1 year ago) Permalink
4
― Jordan, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:24 (1 year ago) Permalink
5
????
four
― gff, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:24 (1 year ago) Permalink
/: -[
― I know, right?, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:28 (1 year ago) Permalink
I'm late to everything.
Just listened to this record for the first time, and spent three tracks feeling guilty for liking it as much as I do. (That was never a problem with Arctic Monkeys -- I honestly don't like them.) I had to get over it, though. This record is kinda irresistible. I will put songs on mixes for people and if they have not heard the songs, they will email me and say "I really like that Vampire song!" because it's that kind of record, too, apart from also being really good.
I will read this thread now.
― kenan, Saturday, 16 February 2008 12:15 (1 year ago) Permalink
Ok, I have changed my mind. I will never ever ever read this thread, you people are all kind of evil.
― kenan, Saturday, 16 February 2008 12:27 (1 year ago) Permalink
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 16 February 2008 18:51 (1 year ago) Permalink
Reading the arguments pro and con Vampire Weekend makes me believe that critics are slowly draining what little life is left in the music industry.
― fukasaku tollbooth, Saturday, 16 February 2008 20:44 (1 year ago) Permalink
avoid the present perfect tense as much as possible, please.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 16 February 2008 20:54 (1 year ago) Permalink
LOL.
― fukasaku tollbooth, Saturday, 16 February 2008 23:22 (1 year ago) Permalink
I just hate that the narrative of these indie bands rise and fall has become so formulaic: every now and then there is a new element such as myspace that temporarily feels like its put a new spin on the basic plotline. Then, almost as soon it becomes so integrated into the cliche as to feel invisible. I feel like being an indie music fan nowadays is very similar to being a soap opera fan, both fans seem to relish the predictability that has become so hardwired into the indie rock band template.
It's funny how just seven years after The Strokes and the claims of returning rock to it's seventies glory days of CBGBs we have this: Coming hot on the heels of the New York Noise book, "Turn The Beat Around" and a whole gamut of articles written recently, there seems to be a sudden mass acceptance that New York is no longer the "glorious shithole" that fostered punk, disco, no-wave and the whole art/pop cross-pollination of the downtown scene*. Vampire Weekend have been made into a trope for the fallout of the Giuliani era. The whole issue of their wealth is even more debated than it was with the Strokes, after 9/11, New Yorkers didn't want to dance*; now, apparently, they don't want to rock either.
*received "wisdom"
― I know, right?, Sunday, 17 February 2008 14:34 (1 year ago) Permalink
That's a roundabout way of saying I like them, they remind me a bit of a Pitchfork-ed Clang of the Yankee Reaper, to say nothing of the obvious Graceland touchstone. Popmatters managed to miss the point, mentioninging them "bigging up the dreaded reggaeton", missing the point of how alive they sound on pop radio surrounded by Kelly Rowland, Rihanna, Britney, Hot Chip (the only other indie band right now who really manage that pop effervescence), The Dream, Timbaland etc. Especially compared to a whole raft of shitty english indie-pop right now (Kate Nash, Scouting for Girls, Mark Ronson: blood lust is unexpected, and troubling).
― I know, right?, Sunday, 17 February 2008 14:53 (1 year ago) Permalink
"the dreaded reggaeton"
o_O
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Sunday, 17 February 2008 17:09 (1 year ago) Permalink
exactly
― I know, right?, Sunday, 17 February 2008 17:14 (1 year ago) Permalink
HEY THIS GUY IS A PARTICULARLY INTERESTING WRITER AND HE WROTE THINGS ABOUT THIS VERY BAND:
http://www.elifbatuman.net/2008/01/28/beautiful-shirts/
http://www.elifbatuman.net/2008/02/04/against-music-reviews/
― tramp steamer, Tuesday, 19 February 2008 05:35 (1 year ago) Permalink
the dreaded n+1
― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 19 February 2008 05:43 (1 year ago) Permalink
if that's you, btw, I've actually started reading your piece on Best American Short Stories and I'm enjoying it.
You'd probably like this thread:
in every 'new yorker' short story ever...
― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 19 February 2008 06:12 (1 year ago) Permalink
The part about music criticism is great, except for one thing: I think it presumes that music critics are mapping sociopolitical stuff onto the music in a sort of vacuum. Whereas I'd say that the seeds of it already exist in the basic teenagey self-definition stuff that people play out with music, using bands to form cliques and take social sides; the error with criticism, usually, is trying to treat that self-definition stuff as if it constitutes real, actual, concrete sociopolitical meat.
Another way of saying this is maybe that a lot of the "class" issues with this band are playing out in terms of self-definition -- the desire to take the side of grit and danger over elegance and comfort -- which means that shades of sociopolitical stuff are being acted out in the reception, but not that the music being made equates to that stuff, or is a concrete political act. (I can see how it's interesting to music criticism to write as if that's the case, as if the music actually IS the moral and social stuff it instigates, but that's just not quite right.)
There's also the weird habit of treating records as if they need to do everything at once; I guess I've also said a million times upthread that criticizing VW for lacking grit seems to me like criticizing a souffle for not being spicy enough. (And I can understand the impulse, if you feel like everyone's constantly being served souffles, but that doesn't make a particular souffle non-good, etc.)
― nabisco, Tuesday, 19 February 2008 06:46 (1 year ago) Permalink
-- tramp steamer, Tuesday, February 19, 2008 5:35 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link
haha, I wrote Elif Batuman an email after reading that piece in N+1, too. I was about to write a mock scathing of the post until I did a Gmail search.
― burt_stanton, Tuesday, 19 February 2008 07:26 (1 year ago) Permalink
Re; the souffle thing - I'm not seeing many people serving souffles at the moment though. There seems to be a lot of cheese on toast.
― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 19 February 2008 09:12 (1 year ago) Permalink
Thank you to whoever called me a particularly interesting writer! For the record though, I'm not a guy. xo Elif
― Elif, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 01:23 (1 year ago) Permalink
I think there's another explanation for whatever class resentment you see against VW, and even moreso against The Strokes. Popular music, in its ideal, mythological sense, at least, is something many people have traditionally liked to think of as the sphere of the working classes, a sphere where people from poor or modest means rise to the top on their grit and energy and honesty and fire-in-the-belly.
If VW aren't rich rich, they're certainly privileged and they certainly come off as privileged. And somehow success appears to come so quickly and easily to them, almost to the extent that you'd think one of them had a well-connected parent like the Strokes did. And they may have no such connections, but that's how they come off. And to make things worse, they actually sing about stuff we associate with privilege, and if there's an irony to it, it's not the biting irony of satire, but a more gentle, almost blank irony. So even if there's a bit of tongue in cheek, the overriding message is still "We are privileged, life is easy for us, and thus we have easily become successful even in what was once for people of other classes."
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 03:51 (1 year ago) Permalink
And maybe that's not a good reason to dislike a band. I kind of hear the same privileged easiness in Mozart, for that matter. But I don't like Mozart. But I could probably come up with a better example if I thought about it long enough.
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 03:53 (1 year ago) Permalink
good post until I hit 'message', xp
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 03:54 (1 year ago) Permalink
gabbneb OTM. I don't hear how singing about Oxford commas, college campuses, Peter Gabriel, and girls signifies privilege.
I don't define "popular music" like you do either, Hurting, since popular music consists of music which a large percentage of its audience can buy.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 04:00 (1 year ago) Permalink
Popular music ... is something many people have traditionally liked to think of as the sphere of the working classes, a sphere where people from poor or modest means rise to the top on their grit and energy and honesty and fire-in-the-belly.
This is a notion of popular music that I have to call bullshit just by definition, because it is a notion of popular music that pointedly disincludes me.
― nabisco, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 05:00 (1 year ago) Permalink
(P.S. It also kinda torpedoes class-warfare action versus Vampire Weekend, even in your own post -- if popular music is the sphere of the working class, and VW radiate lack of grit and privilege, then they would be naturally and unimpeachably outside the sphere of popular music, and there would be little point in applying its standards!)
― nabisco, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 05:04 (1 year ago) Permalink
again, about the only thing i LIKE about this band is their preppy rich boy steez, it's rad as fuck. the music just seems kind of...whatever...to me. i don't know.
nabsico yr too good at the internet, but yeah something in my nutsack tells me this band isn't that dope. i won't attempt to say why and get pwned.
damn i'm tired time for nie-nie
― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 05:12 (1 year ago) Permalink
I don't define "popular music" that way either, I'm just saying that I think there's still a vestigial feeling that it's supposed to be a working class thing, even if the people who feel that way don't articulate it. I mean obviously there was a time when being a pop singer was almost exclusively working class and the bourgeoisie would more likely take up piano or violin or something, and initially the same was true of "being in a band." And obviously in the latter half of this century all that class stuff has gotten increasingly mixed up and the kids that would have only played violin are in bands now too, and even the ponciest of them tend to take on some of the once *gritty* affects that are now just taken for granted as part of being in a band, so it's still possible to feel a little confused by a rock band that appears to wear privilege on its sleeve.
And I'm admitting that I am a little guilty of feeling a pang of dislike for these reasons, because part of me still can't get past the idea of indie rock as soiree music even though maybe that's all it ever was.
Ok, the Oscar Peterson Trio - there's an example. Total soiree music, totally care free and I dig it.
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 05:18 (1 year ago) Permalink
"We are privileged, life is easy for us, and thus we have easily become successful even in what was once for people of other classes."
this is really more John Mayer's message
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 05:28 (1 year ago) Permalink
heh
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 05:28 (1 year ago) Permalink
though I think you're right in a lot of ways, it ties in with their "not rocking" and indie fans/scribes tending to equate "not rocking" with "pop."
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 05:29 (1 year ago) Permalink
Sometimes I think John Mayer is secretly taking the piss.
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 05:29 (1 year ago) Permalink
Oh I wouldn't be surprised if there was a song about watersports on the next one.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 05:31 (1 year ago) Permalink
srsly When I first heard "Waiting on the World to Change" I was sure it was a subtle joke.
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 05:32 (1 year ago) Permalink
that fuck is laughing at us
― carne asada, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 05:32 (1 year ago) Permalink
I will admit I'd probably love that song if Randy Newman wrote it about Generation Y, but interviews make Mayer sound sincere in the message so unless he's Andy Kauffman...
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 05:33 (1 year ago) Permalink
Actually I never noticed this part:
And when you trust your television
What you get is what you got Cause when they own the information, oh They can bend it all they want
Which makes it pretty obvious that he's sincere and also goes well with the Ron Paul support
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 05:38 (1 year ago) Permalink
if vampire weekend were really evil geniuses like JM they would've made the banner ad upthread clickthru-able
― tramp steamer, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 05:42 (1 year ago) Permalink
I think it's very difficult not to see the massive hype of Vampire Weekend as signaling a new change in the marketplace. Just like The Strokes (who, I find it difficult not to compare them to) and their NooYawk thrift store aesthetic (cheap amps, dollar bin new wave) and the "New Rock Revolution"; I feel like we're due a college boy aesthetic of Polo Shirt chic and 90's pop-rock.
This is why people will probably hate Vampire Weekend pretty soon.
― I know, right?, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 10:14 (1 year ago) Permalink
Wow, reading this elif bautmann blog now. She is clever!
― I know, right?, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 10:15 (1 year ago) Permalink
batuman
― I know, right?, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 10:16 (1 year ago) Permalink
Classwise are VW any more 'offensive' to a certain mindset than Coldplay are in the UK?
― Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 11:37 (1 year ago) Permalink
another-u2-lite doesn't really compare to the amount of non-rock signifiers VW dally with.
and hurting's posts about offensiveness really do work better if you think of 'rock' rather than 'popular music.'
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 13:24 (1 year ago) Permalink
i almost kinda regret noting that cuz then the debate is "why should they have to rock?" when I'm much more curious about what the heck makes this good pop.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 13:26 (1 year ago) Permalink
really, if it wasn't for the bands symbol-play and the commentary it inspired would anyone anywhere have anything to say about them other than "zzz, ugh" or "wow! that's some good pop! that's just some...good pop!"
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 13:28 (1 year ago) Permalink
The purpose of pop isn't "talking about it" though.
― Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 13:32 (1 year ago) Permalink
Yeah but the purpose of praising it is
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 13:42 (1 year ago) Permalink
I feel like we're due a college boy aesthetic of Polo Shirt chic and 90's pop-rock.
In the words of Divine, "KILL EVERYONE NOW."
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 15:24 (1 year ago) Permalink
I'm not sure what "'90s pop rock" means, but it would be kind of cool if Vampire Weekend ended up rescuing us from the baleful influence of '90s grunge-rock.
― o. nate, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 16:55 (1 year ago) Permalink
lolindie vampire weekend to da rescue
― tramp steamer, Friday, 22 February 2008 05:32 (1 year ago) Permalink
ew, looking kinda inbred
― gershy, Friday, 22 February 2008 05:35 (1 year ago) Permalink
yeah they've seen better days
― J0rdan S., Friday, 22 February 2008 05:37 (1 year ago) Permalink
So, I pick up an old NME with the album being reviewed, and say "OK", and immediately the video for "A Punk" comes on e4.
I like.
― Mark G, Friday, 22 February 2008 07:35 (1 year ago) Permalink
Although, boy does it remind me of "Little Girl" by the Banned!
― Mark G, Friday, 22 February 2008 09:21 (1 year ago) Permalink
I think they're cute in that picture, I wonder what that says about me...
― I know, right?, Friday, 22 February 2008 10:45 (1 year ago) Permalink
Curiosity got the better of me and I went to their show at ULU last night. They seemed like pleasant boys, shirts tucked in and everything.
Shame about the fire alarm + evacuation mid-way through their set.
― Upt0eleven, Friday, 22 February 2008 11:23 (1 year ago) Permalink
damon did it !
― tramp steamer, Friday, 22 February 2008 18:50 (1 year ago) Permalink
Le Weekend Vampire http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osCK6rs2RNA&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSa23oJy78U&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1Qgdt9tTlk
― gabbneb, Saturday, 23 February 2008 19:31 (1 year ago) Permalink
Dirty Projectors review on Dusted by VW singer from 2003...
http://www.dustedmagazine.com/reviews/1012
― Benjamin-, Thursday, 28 February 2008 17:22 (1 year ago) Permalink
wait, isn't that the same VW singer that also played in the Dirty Projectors touring band?
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 28 February 2008 17:24 (1 year ago) Permalink
So I got the single...
See, it's a 'pack' where you get the CD single and the 7" single for £3.99
So, it's one for the price of two: Same 2 tracks on both, the admittedly fine a-side, and a badly recorded 'demo' version of some lesser track.
― Mark G, Friday, 29 February 2008 09:37 (1 year ago) Permalink
B-b-but the album pretty much WAS their "demos" -- they have pre-demos somewhere? I thought the single b-side was "Ladies of Cambridge," which is from the same sessions as everything else.
― nabisco, Friday, 29 February 2008 18:48 (1 year ago) Permalink
Xgau:
Young twentysomethings who write about what they know -- college. Liberal arts majors broad-minded enough to worry that "ion displacement won't work in the basement," they took their Columbia studies seriously, which is my idea of how to exploit privilege (though how much privilege is less self-evident than Ivy-hatas assume). Hence all the flags about appropriated exotica, class distinctions and cultural capital -- and the not unrelated correct accents, designer brands and vacation retreats. Their chief thematic concern is whether there's life after graduation, and rather than Afropop, from which they misprise a guitar sound but nothing of the groove it was conceived to serve, their music, as with most fresh recent bands good and bad, is quite Euro. Affecting a clarity and delight that pleases the many and confounds the some, their lyrically alluring, structurally hop-skip-and-jumping songs aren't deep. They're just thoughtful fun. And now let me give it up to an I Love Music post by Pitchfork's Scott Plagenhoef: "off- kilter, upbeat guitar pop, with -- in comparison to their peers -- something singular about both their music (e.g. not just the touches of African pop but the willingness to use space and let the songs breathe a bit) and their lyrics (detail-heavy, expressive; too bad they're images of wealth instead of poverty, otherwise they'd be critical manna)." Right on, my brother. Grade: A MINUS
Grade: A MINUS
― Ioannis, Saturday, 1 March 2008 14:37 (1 year ago) Permalink
that line came to me even later - it's even better than the fireflies one
― gabbneb, Saturday, 1 March 2008 14:44 (1 year ago) Permalink
they have pre-demos somewhere?
there's this - http://www.daytrotter.com/article/1041/free-songs-vampire-weekend
― gabbneb, Saturday, 1 March 2008 14:57 (1 year ago) Permalink
I wouldn't say its their clarity and delight that confounds me.
― da croupier, Saturday, 1 March 2008 15:46 (1 year ago) Permalink
Its possible that if I hear "A-Punk" 30 more times (which Fuse, record stores, coffeeshops, etc seem dead set on making happen) I might like it as much as the 5th best track on Outlandos D'amour ("Truth Hits Everybody"?). If I could get past the vocals and into their witty lyrics maybe the songs would resonate stronger. I appreciate the Tim Pope-ness of the video.
― da croupier, Saturday, 1 March 2008 15:51 (1 year ago) Permalink
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=7&entry_id=24636
― gabbneb, Saturday, 1 March 2008 18:31 (1 year ago) Permalink
SNL next weekend
― gabbneb, Sunday, 2 March 2008 18:15 (1 year ago) Permalink
Breakup end of month, solo album from lead singer in May, Behind the Music special in June, acoustic roots reunion album in September...
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 2 March 2008 18:20 (1 year ago) Permalink
hahahahaha
― stephen, Sunday, 2 March 2008 18:31 (1 year ago) Permalink
http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2008/01/vampire_weekend_backlash.html
― gabbneb, Sunday, 2 March 2008 18:39 (1 year ago) Permalink
I'm ahead of being behind my time.
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 2 March 2008 18:40 (1 year ago) Permalink
I thought these were awful on Jools Holland the other night - such a thin, limp sound.
― chap, Sunday, 2 March 2008 19:04 (1 year ago) Permalink
limpcore
― gershy, Sunday, 2 March 2008 19:38 (1 year ago) Permalink
i wonder how much vampire weekend owes in student loans. columbia has to be pretty expensive. kudos to them for having the grit to record music while working jobs to pay school off
― kamerad, Sunday, 2 March 2008 20:20 (1 year ago) Permalink
Does anyone want to go with me to the show in SF on Sunday? You can't smoke.
― youn, Thursday, 6 March 2008 01:43 (1 year ago) Permalink
Oops. I searched for threads and thought this was ILE. My apologies. Please ignore the post above.
― youn, Thursday, 6 March 2008 01:44 (1 year ago) Permalink
They're getting more push from MTV again this week. Between videos in the early morning hours (between 6 a.m. and 8 Eastern time) see them in short clips, riding bikes, singing, and chatting about their fave songs on their album, etc.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 6 March 2008 14:33 (1 year ago) Permalink
http://www.subterraneanblog.com/2008/03/04/mtv-artist-of-the-week-vampire-weekend/
― tramp steamer, Thursday, 6 March 2008 23:22 (1 year ago) Permalink
O! I wish I had a television at times.
― youn, Friday, 7 March 2008 01:26 (1 year ago) Permalink
The best thing in that was the gesture.
― youn, Friday, 7 March 2008 01:43 (1 year ago) Permalink
http://www.mtv.com/overdrive/?id=1582660&vid=213890
John Jay and ButlerStax!
― gabbneb, Friday, 7 March 2008 06:10 (1 year ago) Permalink
one of those videos features an appearance by an Official Columbia Squirrel (or possibly an Official Columbia Squirrat)
― gabbneb, Friday, 7 March 2008 06:17 (1 year ago) Permalink
i dont really care about this band but im just dropping in to say jshepard's vv article was awful
kthnxbye
― deej, Saturday, 8 March 2008 17:38 (1 year ago) Permalink
First off, this Friday's FADER radio was one of my favorites ever, because we played all music related to our Africa issue (mostly hiplife from Ghana, lest any deans and/or peens deem it necessary to take my specificity to task and/or publicly renounce our friendship - LO mfin L!). JShep, now working at Fader, on her blog
Vampire Weekend on Saturday Night Live tonight
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 8 March 2008 18:09 (1 year ago) Permalink
Good lord, it's like they're constitutionally or contractually unable to do any sort of press more than four blocks from the corner of 114th and Amsterdam.
― nabisco, Saturday, 8 March 2008 20:54 (1 year ago) Permalink
i think it's like the boy in the plastic bubble...the air would kill them
― latebloomer, Saturday, 8 March 2008 20:59 (1 year ago) Permalink
Actually I think it's more like they've figured out how to use the neighborhood as an image and marketing angle, which -- considering it's in Manhattan -- is kinda something.
Columbia should really give them a kickback on any increase in applications this fall.
― nabisco, Saturday, 8 March 2008 21:01 (1 year ago) Permalink
Additional public-safety note: Koenig is surely being a little perverse by suggesting that a "late-night picnic in Morningside Park" is a good date idea.
― nabisco, Saturday, 8 March 2008 21:15 (1 year ago) Permalink
Additional additional note: I'd have given this a 3.2 if I'd known Koenig honestly doesn't use serial commas. Can't we reconvene the PMRC and do something about this nonsense?
― nabisco, Saturday, 8 March 2008 21:19 (1 year ago) Permalink
These VW dudes seem like the kind-of dorkissimos who wear baggy pleated Eddie Bauer khakis and chunky brown leather moccasins out in public; how they got anywhere is thanks purely to the magic of zeitgeist ... and being incredibly well-connected in aristocratic 2008 NYC.
― burt_stanton, Saturday, 8 March 2008 23:38 (1 year ago) Permalink
why would they be worried about how much coal someone said they had? is it a reverse coke ref?
― whatever, Saturday, 8 March 2008 23:44 (1 year ago) Permalink
Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Burt Stanton.
― nabisco, Sunday, 9 March 2008 00:11 (1 year ago) Permalink
burt swear off this thread for your own health dude
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 9 March 2008 00:12 (1 year ago) Permalink
Nah. Despising mediocrity and American worship of bland non-creativity is my raison d'être. A million brilliant artists and musicians live and die i nothingness, yet here we have ... another pile of oatmeal dogshit people can't shovel into their mouths fast enough.
― burt_stanton, Sunday, 9 March 2008 00:37 (1 year ago) Permalink
burt_magill
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 9 March 2008 00:39 (1 year ago) Permalink
FFFFF Ffff AAGGGOT BALLZ
― OskarM, Sunday, 9 March 2008 00:40 (1 year ago) Permalink
12 boxes of frozen Morningstar vegan breakfast burritos fell on my head today, so pardon my uncontrolalble outbursts
― burt_stanton, Sunday, 9 March 2008 01:07 (1 year ago) Permalink
They're included in the article on Brooklyn bands in the Sunday March 9th New York Times because, according to the article 3/4 of the band now live in that borough. If you care about sales figures--from that article- LCD Soundsystem 'Sound of Silver' sold 103,000 copies,MGMT 21,000 so far, and Yeasayer 15,000. No numbers for VW, which may get a boost from the Saturday Night Live appearance (I was just awake for "A Punk" whose vocals lacked the spirit of earlier renditions)
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 9 March 2008 18:49 (1 year ago) Permalink
after last week, VW had sold 86k. (I don't have soundscan but I saw the figures reported somewhere - same place says MGMT are now up to 26k.)
also, wow, that's a great figure for yeasayer.
― scottpl, Sunday, 9 March 2008 19:19 (1 year ago) Permalink
I LOL'd
― gabbneb, Sunday, 9 March 2008 19:39 (1 year ago) Permalink
yes
LOL at them having a fansite called OXFORD COMMA RIDDIM. Jesus.
― Matt DC, Monday, 10 March 2008 12:19 (1 year ago) Permalink
I found it hard not to wish some form of backalley justice on vampire weekend while watching their snl appearance. can it really be called a backlash when it's just a larger segment of the population discovering that a band is eye-gougingly irritating? even my wife, who loves the arctic monkeys, likes the vampire weekend single, and generally refuses to indulge my curmudgeonly observations, agreed they were insufferable.
this band is shaping up to be a wonderful lightning rod as the economy slides into the floodwaters.
― Edward III, Monday, 10 March 2008 14:54 (1 year ago) Permalink
I have no idea what that last sentence is supposed to mean.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 10 March 2008 14:58 (1 year ago) Permalink
Easy harmless target for all his ire, I presume?
― Matt DC, Monday, 10 March 2008 15:03 (1 year ago) Permalink
I dunno about you, Edward, but, even if people gave a flying fuck about the relationship between the U.S. economy and the background of band members, I like watching (and listening) to people enjoy themselves. You'll probably next advise us to burn our copies of Scott Fitzgerald novels to protest the collapse of the housing boom.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 10 March 2008 15:06 (1 year ago) Permalink
It might provide a cheaper substitute for oil.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 10 March 2008 15:08 (1 year ago) Permalink
guys, even his wife agreed
― gabbneb, Monday, 10 March 2008 15:30 (1 year ago) Permalink
discovering that a band is eye-gougingly irritating
I wish they were at least mildly irritating. At best, they're as exciting as that wet piece of Wonder Bread I saw on the sidewalk this morning. And the Wonder Bread held my attention longer.
― Sara Sara Sara, Monday, 10 March 2008 15:31 (1 year ago) Permalink
its exciting to learn that gabbneb enjoys a type of music.
― chaki, Monday, 10 March 2008 15:34 (1 year ago) Permalink
No numbers for VW, which may get a boost from the Saturday Night Live appearance
While watching them play "M79" on SNL (I missed the first song), I surmised that they're more likely to get an SNL boost than 90% of the bands that have been on the show in the last 10 years. Overhyped in blogger circles, sure, but this was probably the first time thousands of people had heard of them.
― jaymc, Monday, 10 March 2008 16:07 (1 year ago) Permalink
i have watched the snl clips - guy does a weird thing w/his eyes
― jhøshea, Monday, 10 March 2008 16:09 (1 year ago) Permalink
I was a little surprised at them picking "M79" for the second song, I was thinking that something like "Campus" or "The Kids Don't Stand A Chance" would have been a better choice.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Monday, 10 March 2008 16:12 (1 year ago) Permalink
They got to show off the string quartet, though.
― jaymc, Monday, 10 March 2008 16:26 (1 year ago) Permalink
-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, March 10, 2008 10:58 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link
just that there hasn't been as perfect a band for both the rock populi and social critics to centralize their hate around for a long time. vw's timing is perfect. they're like the knack for a new millenium.
and to preempt further miscategorization, what irritated me about them wasn't that they were having fun. I like fun, I like seeing people having fun. one of my favorite records is unrest's perfect teeth fer crissakes. and the ivory tower privilege shit doesn't bug me -- note that I am ilm's resident joanna newsom apologist. but there's a smugness and sense of entitlement that comes off vampire weekend like a heat mirage (and that was my perception before I, god help me, read this entire thread).
people can try to reduce this to "they just made a poppy record that people like to dance to" but the bonfire of the vanities stuff these guys trade in is just too delicious to ignore. I'm glad they're around, they make recent flash-in-the-pan whipping dogs like arcade fire and the strokes look positively unassailable.
― Edward III, Monday, 10 March 2008 17:01 (1 year ago) Permalink
Right, because ILM hates money.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 10 March 2008 17:04 (1 year ago) Permalink
― Edward III, Monday, 10 March 2008 17:05 (1 year ago) Permalink
flash-in-the-pan whipping dogs like arcade fire and the strokes
i wouldn't exactly call these bands flash in the pan nor would i assume that vw are gonna have a more successful career than either. i mean af sold almost 100,000 copies in its first week, which i guess vw could and probably will do, but still.
― J0rdan S., Monday, 10 March 2008 17:05 (1 year ago) Permalink
Right, I just don't think that songs plays to their strengths.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Monday, 10 March 2008 17:06 (1 year ago) Permalink
a flash in the pan whipping dog must be a scary sight on a dark evening, even for a mixed metaphor.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 10 March 2008 17:07 (1 year ago) Permalink
mixed metaphors are my stock-in-trade mise-en-place!
― Edward III, Monday, 10 March 2008 17:22 (1 year ago) Permalink
As a friend who got dumped last week but has already gone on a couple of dates since then said, "There's plenty of fish in the barrel."
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 10 March 2008 17:26 (1 year ago) Permalink
Bonfire of the Vanities! Good effort.
I imagine they did M79 - which I discounted a bit because it's my favorite - in part because they're (or Rostam is) proud of it. And also because it's probably their best poster-child for fuck you, we don't care about rocking as hard as you think we should.
Also, chaki, I will attend your pep rally if it's that important to you. I may even bring pom-poms.
― gabbneb, Monday, 10 March 2008 17:31 (1 year ago) Permalink
anyway I like the arcade fire and strokes, calling them "flash-in-the-pan whipping dogs" speaks more to their status as backlash contenders than to my actual opinions on them.
"there's plenty of fish in the barrel" is zenlike confusion.
― Edward III, Monday, 10 March 2008 17:32 (1 year ago) Permalink
here is the point where I observe that even their fans are condescending... this is like shooting fish in the sea.
― Edward III, Monday, 10 March 2008 17:39 (1 year ago) Permalink
I'm just picking on you.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 10 March 2008 17:45 (1 year ago) Permalink
you only do it because you hate fun
― Edward III, Monday, 10 March 2008 17:48 (1 year ago) Permalink
probably their best poster-child for fuck you, we don't care about rocking as hard as you think we should.
So...are they saying, "Fuck you, we won't rock hard", or "Fuck you, look how hard we're rocking"? The latter would be kind of interesting (in the way that watching a dog walk on its hind legs is interesting), but the former is pretty funny too.
I think they should tour with Northern State.
― Sara Sara Sara, Monday, 10 March 2008 17:54 (1 year ago) Permalink
Northern State is also up there for "most god awful group on earth". It's like a bunch of 33 year old moms thought it would be so CUTE and HILARIOUS to be like, one of those hip-hoppers.
― burt_stanton, Monday, 10 March 2008 17:59 (1 year ago) Permalink
They should totally tour with Northern State!
― gabbneb, Monday, 10 March 2008 18:01 (1 year ago) Permalink
Modus Operandi: Strong Island-bred Hesta Prynn, Guinea Love and Sprout put the sub-bass in suburbia with old school hip-hop you haven't heard for way too long. Politically charged and socially aware, these are the highly skilled lady MCs you've been reading so much about, so now it's time to hear them.
In Their Own Words: "We're presenting an alternative so that young women will feel that to be in this industry you don't have to take off your clothes and have sex with rappers." -Hesta Prynn, vocals
― Edward III, Monday, 10 March 2008 18:02 (1 year ago) Permalink
Not that I have a crush on Spero or anything
― gabbneb, Monday, 10 March 2008 18:04 (1 year ago) Permalink
The thing is, it doesn't matter that these kids aren't rich industry babies like The Strokes, the fact is they're worse than The Strokes, because they have the unmitigated gaul to reject the low drone of the proletariat.
― gabbneb, Monday, 10 March 2008 18:07 (1 year ago) Permalink
― max, Monday, 10 March 2008 18:08 (1 year ago) Permalink
^^^ unmitigated gaul
They should cover some Liberaci
― gabbneb, Monday, 10 March 2008 18:13 (1 year ago) Permalink
Burt is so CUTE and HILARIOUS
― gabbneb, Monday, 10 March 2008 18:15 (1 year ago) Permalink
Vampire Weekend are flash-in-the-pan capitalist running dogs
― Hurting 2, Monday, 10 March 2008 23:59 (1 year ago) Permalink
One's perfectly valid subjective impressions are one's own perfectly valid subjective impressions, but when I see people write things like "I saw this band play a song about a bus on TV and I got an overwhelming sense of their smug entitlement," I cannot help but conclude that some small level of projection is going on.
― nabisco, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 03:46 (1 year ago) Permalink
I should phrase this as a question, though: is the feeling that they should act more serious, or look like they're trying harder?
― nabisco, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 03:47 (1 year ago) Permalink
http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2008/03/vampire_weekends_snl_appearance.html
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 12:35 (1 year ago) Permalink
a lot of hype. more like VW = TV on the Radio
― U-Haul, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 15:14 (1 year ago) Permalink
nabisco, I assume you mean projection not in the freudian sense, but in the sense of seeing something that isn't there? one person's smug is another person's self-confidence perhaps?
I'm not suggeting the band should be more serious or look like they're trying harder. the latter's a weird one... who thinks a band should look like they're trying?
I don't have the stomach to go back and rewatch their performance, but if a band's wide-eyed exuberance isn't contagious and/or convincing they are going to appear misguided at the least. maybe it *was* the sweaters.
― Edward III, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 15:59 (1 year ago) Permalink
one person's smug is another person's self-confidence perhaps?
normally i'd agree, but what struck me about their snl performance was that it wasn't the least bit self-confident. they appeared deeply frightened, and tremendously smug. i have to say, i've never seen anyone pull that off before.
― Lawrence the Looter, Wednesday, 12 March 2008 07:51 (1 year ago) Permalink
U-Haul OTM right down to the "band is pretty good and brings out the doctrinaire rockist in their detractors"
OTOH I really like Hurting 2's suggestion that people bring Chairman Mao outta mothballs to really teach those privileged VW dudes a lesson or two about what's real
― J0hn D., Wednesday, 12 March 2008 12:23 (1 year ago) Permalink
I wonder if the people who dislike VW for their socioeconomic posturing have the same feeling towards a filmmaker like Wes Anderson, who also tells stories from the perspective of the young and privileged.
― o. nate, Wednesday, 12 March 2008 14:58 (1 year ago) Permalink
film is a way different medium, with way different memes than rock. there weren't old blues directors and screen play writers crafting stories about being hopelessly broke. and then there's the whole punk rock thing and its roots in socialist situationist propaganda. that's what i think rubs people the wrong way. plus a lot of indie rock seems based on resentment about and making fun of success. plus maybe vw suck. haven't heard them
― kamerad, Wednesday, 12 March 2008 15:04 (1 year ago) Permalink
I hope I'm making clear that I don't dislike them BECAUSE they're privileged and making rock music. I more just feel like they lack guts, and that I not only feel that in the music, but in the way they present this sort of confused, uncertain picture of themselves by getting on stage in clothing that looks preppie but isn't especially nice or stylish.
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 12 March 2008 15:19 (1 year ago) Permalink
I liked Darjeeling Limited, and that film obviously had a lot to do with privilege. I thought it made astute class observations without seeming snipey or hypercritical or didactic. It's partly about luxury and freedom softening the edges of grief without getting to the heart of it.
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 12 March 2008 15:23 (1 year ago) Permalink
film is a way different medium, with way different memes than rock
I think I kind of see what you're getting at. Rock music came out of popular forms that arose from the less privileged segments of society, and its early stars were people who faced racial as well as economic prejudice - Chuck Berry, Elvis (the son of a truck driver), and so forth. Like blues, folk, R&B, gospel and country, forms that influenced and shaped it, it has roots in a salt-of-the-earth ideal of authenticity, one that finds nobility and honesty in suffering and poverty and the plight of the common man.
It's been kind of a dirty little secret of rock music since its early years that many of its most popular and famous artists have come from more advantaged backgrounds, but it's considered de rigeur for these stars to downplay if not conceal their origins and affect a more common touch. (There are countless examples: Mick Jagger came from a middle-class British background, but affected a Southern American accent and sung tales of a more louche and declasse experience; Bob Dylan came from a middle-class Minnesota background, but in his early days often spun tall tales about his background, to portray a much earthier and less privileged past). All this is quite different from the milieu and image of Hollywood, whose stars have always aspired to a kind of faux-aristocratic hauteur.
― o. nate, Wednesday, 12 March 2008 15:27 (1 year ago) Permalink
Way different memes, maaaan
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 12 March 2008 15:34 (1 year ago) Permalink
"meme!"
― Mark G, Wednesday, 12 March 2008 15:54 (1 year ago) Permalink
vampire weekend could look better. the polo shirts they wear could be slightly more crisp and have more vibrant colors. i also find myself very disappointed by the way their jeans fit too. they're cut too long, thus causing the legs to bunch up near the ankle. it's like they're not even trying. because of this, i question their music
― 6335, Wednesday, 12 March 2008 16:08 (1 year ago) Permalink
Hurting thinks they lack guts
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 12 March 2008 16:55 (1 year ago) Permalink
They're obviously just going with the music-blogger flow
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 12 March 2008 16:56 (1 year ago) Permalink
-- o. nate, Wednesday, 12 March 2008 14:58 (45 minutes ago) Link
wes anderson's career is a pattern of diminishing returns for me. but I like shakespeare, whit stillman, and kieslowski's blue, so I don't think privilege-hatin' is my problem.
lawrence the looter makes an interesting observation about the disconnect in vampire weekend's delivery.
in the interest of science I tried to listen to their cdr yesterday but could only get through 2 songs. no repulsion, just disinterest. maybe I should hear the cd?
― Edward III, Wednesday, 12 March 2008 17:08 (1 year ago) Permalink
"spanish ways to roll along" (?A!!!A@)
― youn, Thursday, 13 March 2008 21:53 (1 year ago) Permalink
i like the single, but in a quirky-one-hit-curiosity way, not a paradigm-fucking seachange omg wau way.
― get bent, Friday, 14 March 2008 07:35 (1 year ago) Permalink
anyway they remind me a little of a cool fresno band called rademacher, who aren't yet polished enough to be anywhere near as famous as VW, and may not want to be.
― get bent, Friday, 14 March 2008 07:38 (1 year ago) Permalink
lol, they make the News Hour
― gabbneb, Friday, 28 March 2008 23:47 (1 year ago) Permalink
the new vampire hands record blows this shit out of the water if yr looking for vampire rock
― M@tt He1ges0n, Friday, 28 March 2008 23:56 (1 year ago) Permalink
lol microgenres
― The Reverend, Friday, 28 March 2008 23:58 (1 year ago) Permalink
r&b trend poll
― J0rdan S., Friday, 28 March 2008 23:59 (1 year ago) Permalink
6/10
― The Reverend, Saturday, 29 March 2008 00:02 (1 year ago) Permalink
4/4
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 29 March 2008 00:03 (1 year ago) Permalink
naw, you ain't heard the new Jahiem song in 6/10 time? Shit is crazy.
― The Reverend, Saturday, 29 March 2008 00:06 (1 year ago) Permalink
every time i see these dudes name i think of werewolf bar mitzvah
― and what, Thursday, 10 April 2008 18:36 (1 year ago) Permalink
There's also a band in Chicago called Probably Vampires.
― jaymc, Thursday, 10 April 2008 18:39 (1 year ago) Permalink
^^ I'm not sure I'd entirely consider them vampire-rock, though, they might be something else
― nabisco, Thursday, 10 April 2008 18:41 (1 year ago) Permalink
I mean, Chicago vampire-rock has been all downhill since Lake of Dracula
― nabisco, Thursday, 10 April 2008 18:44 (1 year ago) Permalink
Is this thread still going? Has everyone not come to terms with the fact that this is a nice, catchy indie-pop record by nice clean guys and GOT OVER IT?
― Scik Mouthy, Friday, 11 April 2008 11:14 (1 year ago) Permalink
Don't forget Vampire Can't, the rad noize band!
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Friday, 11 April 2008 11:25 (1 year ago) Permalink
ha playing kimmel right now with a hs marching band
totally rad
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 24 April 2008 05:06 (1 year ago) Permalink
the bassist is the biggest fucking doofus of all time
vampire bar mitzvah spooky scary boys becoming men men becoming vampires
― St3ve Go1db3rg, Thursday, 24 April 2008 05:35 (1 year ago) Permalink
i met them yesterday, job in Los Angeles, really nice guys.
― Bee OK, Thursday, 24 April 2008 06:46 (1 year ago) Permalink
and i like the album, even surprising myself as i thought it would get old fast, and told them so.
― Bee OK, Thursday, 24 April 2008 06:47 (1 year ago) Permalink
Terrible article: http://music.guardian.co.uk/pop/story/0,,2276328,00.html
...
OK, this is odder than I thought. I read that article this morning and was amazed at how bad it was. Then this evening I read an article on graphic novels in a recent LRB and was amazed at how bad it was. It seemed odd to be coming across such pretentious, twaddling, lengthy crap in two places on the same day. To compound it, the next LRB carries a sycophantic letter from Steve Burt with a correction to this, he says, GREAT piece on comics.
Then, getting that link above, I realized it's THE SAME WRITER. My goodness - this irritating chick is going to haunt us for years with her 'I was a depressed graduate student' BS.
― the pinefox, Sunday, 27 April 2008 22:13 (1 year ago) Permalink
Haha, Pinefox, if you look way upthread you'll actually find her posting here!
― nabisco, Sunday, 27 April 2008 22:26 (1 year ago) Permalink
Having just seen these dudes the other day = I concur.
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 27 April 2008 22:35 (1 year ago) Permalink
nowai u guys vampire wolf is best
― jhøshea, Sunday, 27 April 2008 22:49 (1 year ago) Permalink
I wonder how many people here remember the time (2001) when The Strokes were seen as really important, and Tom Ewing launched a SPECIAL ISSUE of FREAKY TRIGGER with various people writing about them. The only one I remember now is Nabisco's very long article which argued, as far as I could tell, that the Strokes weren't a big Rock deal but a fun Pop group. I pretty much agreed, though felt this was fairly obvious. This thread feels similar to that.
I have hardly heard this band, but what I have heard I didn't really like. I can't believe Nabisco prefers their LP to Tigermilk. That says something surprising about where he, vs many of us in my country, is coming from. It would just be unthinkable for most pop fans I know to say such a thing. (This is circular, as most pop fans I know know each other because of Tigermilk.)
Nabisco uses words like 'eight-note' and 'the clear channels'. Am I the only one who doesn't really know what they mean? Nobody else has said that they don't.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 09:39 (1 year ago) Permalink
I think that should say 'eighth-note'
and '2001' should have had a ? after it.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 09:40 (1 year ago) Permalink
Listening to a few tracks here http://www.myspace.com/vampireweekend it doesn't sound great. Not very strong or likeable vocals, and not much to get hold of in lyrics or melody. WTF is this silly 'Peter Gabriel' chorus about? It sounds rubbish, embarrassing. The band's one strength might be the lead guitar parts: which are chirpily OK, but not much more.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 10:40 (1 year ago) Permalink
pinefox is obviously right that this band are mediocre.
this i don't understand -- most pop fans have never heard of 'tigermilk', the lucky blighters.
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 10:43 (1 year ago) Permalink
I can't believe Nabisco prefers their LP to Tigermilk. That says something surprising about where he, vs many of us in my country, is coming from.
hey, I didn't say it
if you're unfamiliar with 'eighth-note', it's because you're unfamiliar with basic music theory. if you're unfamiliar with 'the clear channels', you're missing a reference that most people familiar with the american music business would catch.
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 12:40 (1 year ago) Permalink
I'm curious to know what these terms mean now.
― Daniel Giraffe, Monday, 28 April 2008 12:46 (1 year ago) Permalink
Good.
I am unfamiliar with most things, including music theory and the American music business.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 12:52 (1 year ago) Permalink
Pinefox I submit to you that if your first exposure to Tigermilk had been checking out B&S's Myspace and listening skeptically to a couple of samples, it wouldn't have left much of an impression with you either
― J0hn D., Monday, 28 April 2008 12:57 (1 year ago) Permalink
My first exposure to that record didn't make much impression - it was on a tape, taped from another tape, taped from some distant vinyl copy or whatever. For a long time I listened to it over and over, notably while washing up (a way I have listened to much music) and it did frustratingly little for me. I felt B&S were overrated on the whole (not least because some of my favourite people adored them so).
Then one day I took a long bus ride, and listened to TM on my walkman, and it was transformed for me; and to an extent, perhaps, my whole view of B&S was radically improved.
No reason why anyone else should be interested in that story; just a response to your submission.
I guess that you (as I said above, in a way, re Nabisco) are coming at the B&S vs VW comparison (made by Nabisco, I think) from a very very different place from most pop fans I know. Most of them would find it unbelievable that anyone could rate VW over B&S (B&S at their early, fragile best, indeed). This is not an idiosyncratic stance on my part, it's a very consensual one, and a consensus in which I am content to remain.
I think I may have misquoted Nabisco earlier, and the other technical term he used was 'the clean channels'.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:06 (1 year ago) Permalink
actually, it's probably an equipment reference, not a biz one
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:08 (1 year ago) Permalink
many ppl disdain a fragile sound. VW are far from exclusively 'pop', if distinctions are insisted upon. aside, are you familiar with Don Lennon?
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:09 (1 year ago) Permalink
I did hear him once or twice online. I will listen to him more, on that site, if you think I should.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:14 (1 year ago) Permalink
no, that is not necessary
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:23 (1 year ago) Permalink
I thought that Elif Batuman article on Vampire Weekend was fascinating.
― o. nate, Monday, 28 April 2008 15:29 (1 year ago) Permalink
I thought it was pretty good except for when she got on the wrong train or decided to be a film critic
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 15:31 (1 year ago) Permalink
I think it was clear that her take on Wes Anderson was meant to be not the view of a professional film critic, but more of an idiosyncratic personal response, in keeping with the overall theme of the piece.
― o. nate, Monday, 28 April 2008 15:38 (1 year ago) Permalink
Never thought envy was part of the Pinefox's hidden arsenal.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Monday, 28 April 2008 15:40 (1 year ago) Permalink
I'm not gonna forgive her for being rong because she isn't a professional. It also wasn't that idiosyncratic. Or that rong. It was frustrating because in its misreading (to me) of WA - he makes live-action cartoons, not realistic evocations - it suggested a misunderstanding (to me) of the 'vibe' concept, which is pretty concerned with tactile reality.
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 15:43 (1 year ago) Permalink
Oh stop sending me to sleep with yr dreary not-one-of-us protectionism, we've killed the professionals, deal with it.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Monday, 28 April 2008 15:46 (1 year ago) Permalink
waht
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 15:48 (1 year ago) Permalink
I think her criticism of Wes Anderson is not that he's unrealistic or cartoonish, but that (esp. in his later work) the exotic background doesn't connect with the foreground characters in any meaningful way.
I can't contribute much to the Vampire Weekend vs. Belle and Sebastian conversation, since the only Belle and Sebastian I've tried to listen to was some of their later work, which sounded a bit too twee and labored to my taste - the sort of thing carried off more effortlessly by Camera Obscura on their most recent album. And it's possible that the cultural "vibes" (to use Batuman's term) evoked by the somewhat fragmented and kaleidoscopic Vampire Weekend lyrics may not translate as well across the Atlantic.
― o. nate, Monday, 28 April 2008 15:48 (1 year ago) Permalink
I think her criticism of Wes Anderson is not that he's unrealistic or cartoonish,
right, I said that she fails to understand that he is those things
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 16:24 (1 year ago) Permalink
I don't see how the notion that Anderson is cartoonish undercuts the critique that the exotic settings in his films are ultimately found to be arbitrary and sterile. In other words, embracing his shortcomings as an aesthetic choice doesn't change the fact that they are shortcomings. Whereas pop song seems better suited to the task of organically interweaving the exotic flourishes with emotion and visceral pulse, as Vampire Weekend do in their better moments.
― o. nate, Monday, 28 April 2008 16:50 (1 year ago) Permalink
Wes Anderson has a pulse?
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 28 April 2008 16:52 (1 year ago) Permalink
No, sorry if that was poorly worded. I meant that pop song (and specifically Vampire Weekend) does.
― o. nate, Monday, 28 April 2008 16:55 (1 year ago) Permalink
I think the problem is now we're in a time where people take pop and pop culture way too friggin seriously; a million essays are out on Vampire Weekend, a band that gets more critical attention than if a lost Pasolini film emerged.
"But, taking pop seriously is like ... so progressive! If you're against it, you're just some bloody rockist." (language borrowed from 2004, but the attitude still operates fully).
― burt_stanton, Monday, 28 April 2008 18:31 (1 year ago) Permalink
The Pinefox surely knows what eighth notes and clean channels are, though maybe not what I'm using them to refer to here:
people are listening to this for well-made happy eighth-note indie
It's a rock standard, but in particular it's a basic, deep-rooted component of indie rock, since the punk days, to have bass & guitars clicking along playing eighth notes. (Often the guitar plays power chords, or muted power chords, and the bass plays the root note of the chord.) And of course you vary from that point -- you omit some or double some into sixteenths to create a rhythm -- but it's still the ultimate basic. The bulk of punk songs do this, new-wave is all about it, New Order guitar work usually revolves around it, Pixies bass lines revolve around it, the Strokes' "Hard to Explain" does it ... you know what I'm talking about, right? This is a simple, base-level, building-block component of what a certain type of music sounds like, and so when bands do it, it seems to appeal to familiar, comfortable, fundamental pleasure centers in people who happen to enjoy that kind of music -- the same way basic old-school boom-bap beats do for hip-hop.
Vampire Weekend don't actually play that eighth-note grid all that often, and when they do, the drummer usually works around it, but the moments where they ram it home (like "Campus") have that simple/basic/"clean" quality. It also seems to undergird their writing even when they're not strictly doing it.
they'd be neither the first nor the last people in the world to hear a couple African pop compilations and think "those are such pleasant guitar sounds, let's use the clean channels from now on."
Guitar amplifiers often have two channels to choose between: the "clean" channel just amplifies your guitar, and usually sounds smooth and chiming, while the other channel adds gain or overdrive, and makes your guitar sound fuzzy and distorted, as in most(?) rock music. Vampire Weekend exclusively use REALLY clean guitar sounds; there aren't even pedal-effect sounds to notice; and it's incredibly hard to imagine them using a distorted/effected sound in any way whatsoever. One would assume they've picked this up from African pop, a lot of varieties of which are also built around very clean-toned guitar work. Especially because that clean, complex guitar work is one of the main features of lots of west-African pop that's immediately appealing and recognizable to western rock listeners: it's something a young guitar player will hear and be liable to think "wow, that's a great sound, and I'd love to be able to play like that." (Cf loads of English indie guitar players in the 1980s, like Johnny Marr.)
― nabisco, Monday, 28 April 2008 18:45 (1 year ago) Permalink
That clean guitar sound has always been a signature in Western music, particularly indie... I always thought it was from that jangly 60s stuff, which is where basically every culture took it from, and why it appeared again in the 80s.
― burt_stanton, Monday, 28 April 2008 18:48 (1 year ago) Permalink
Oh, totally, that's the bulk of it -- but with guys like Marr you hear a lot of arpeggios and finger work that point a bit in the direction of Africa. (It's also worth keeping in mind that the time around 1980 had African pop making a vogue splash in the US/UK.)
P.S.: Why the eighth notes and cleanliness matter = one part of VW's appeal that's sometimes hard to articulate is the way they cut back to a lot of very simple and natural qualities in a way that somehow seems (to some of us) refreshing, interesting, and even novel, rather than just conventional or boring or content-free. "Basic" indie-rock structure, incredibly naturalistic and uncomplicated recording (very not-stylized, you know?), small number of sounds playing a small number of usually simple lines, a certain tidiness ... (I am aware that these are precisely the qualities many of you find bothersome about them, yes)
― nabisco, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:00 (1 year ago) Permalink
Nabisco, thank you for taking the trouble to try to explain the terms that you used, which so many people in this world are so often not prepared to do.
I can certainly understand a difference between a clean sound and a distorted sound, let's say, on a guitar, and from the VW I've heard, yes, it sounds a clean guitar sound -- though I don't know anything about any 'two channels' (I guess I have never used a sufficiently sophisticated amplifier). As for this clean sound being Marr-esque - in that case, isn't it quite mainstream and not much of a gesture? (ie: Burt Stanton, of all people, has a point?) But Marr's sound was laden with effects (if I knew exactly what they were then perhaps I would have tried harder to achieve them myself), so I'm not sure he fits your no-FX model.
re. eighth notes - well, I know most of the bands you mention in your paragraph, but no, I don't know what an eighth note is, or what part of their sound that would refer to. I am not familiar with that concept.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:02 (1 year ago) Permalink
That clean guitar sound has always been a signature in Western music, particularly indie... I always thought it was from that jangly 60s stuff, which is where basically every culture took it from.
― contenderizer, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:03 (1 year ago) Permalink
My favorite VW songs are not the ones where the straight-ahead, eighth-note basslines are most prominent. I like the ska-inflected beats with more syncopation to them - "A-Punk", "Oxford Comma" or "M-79" for instance.
― o. nate, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:18 (1 year ago) Permalink
Addendum to that last one: I mean, I'm not convinced that early electric Mbaqanga musicians (Makgona Tsohle Band) were emulating American surf rock sounds, and they certainly weren't psychically fortelling Byrds-style "jangle". That clean, chiming, upbeat sound seems like something organic and distinctly African to me.
― contenderizer, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:20 (1 year ago) Permalink
It's more than just clean, distortion-free amplification though - I think it's the type of picked melody lines, as distinct from strummed or fingered chords that makes VW's guitar sound African.
― o. nate, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:23 (1 year ago) Permalink
Also, the sunny major keys.
― o. nate, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:24 (1 year ago) Permalink
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_note
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:25 (1 year ago) Permalink
^^ what O.Nate is saying. I am not under the impression that either African players or indie kids invented clean guitar sounds -- I'm saying there is a particular tone and style that people recognize from various threads of African pop, and many a western guitar player has heard that, been taken with the feel of it, and tried to capture some small aspect of same in his/her own playing
― nabisco, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:33 (1 year ago) Permalink
(and obviously any one of you here could immediately tell the difference between an African pop player, a guy playing clean-toned jazz, and an indie kid drawing vague stylistic inspiration from either of the above)
― nabisco, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:35 (1 year ago) Permalink
How can a major key be 'sunny'?
As always, that is not a sarcastic or aggressive question - two things that I dislike. I realize that we all use adjectives to describe pop, impressionistically; I have surely used the word 'sunny' myself, and I am not sure that I could explain it if challenged. But it seems odd, actually, to use it about a key. Any major key can presumably take you to a series of minor chords, within that key - would it still be sunny? And can one major chord (G, or D, or whatever) make for a more sunny key than another?
I read the eighth-note link, as best I could - and as a matter of fact, implausibly perhaps, I used to study that kind of thing as a little boy; I could read music and I took theoretical exams. A long time ago, and of course I know less now than I did then. But I don't see much connection between the content of that page and what Nabisco was talking about above.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:39 (1 year ago) Permalink
But I don't see much connection between the content of that page and what Nabisco was talking about above. -- pinefox
Repeated eighth-note figures, picked/amplified cleanly and matched by the rhythm section, give music propulsive, hypnotic quality. Matched with bright major chords and certain types of melodies & harmonies (beyond my capacity to explain), you get the upbeat, "sunny", chiming sound that VW are borrowing from 60s/70s African pop.
― contenderizer, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:49 (1 year ago) Permalink
What's some of the best of that African pop, you think? I heard some good stuff on FMU's Gateway to Joy a few years ago, but the names escape me.
― burt_stanton, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:54 (1 year ago) Permalink
I didn't realize that describing a major key as "sunny" would be controversial. Any attempt to describe the way music sounds in metaphorical terms will encounter the same difficulties, I guess. You could also call it "sweet" or even just "pleasant" - it probably has something to do with overtones, but I'm not really technical enough to explain it.
― o. nate, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:06 (1 year ago) Permalink
What's some of the best of that African pop, you think? --burt s.
― contenderizer, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:08 (1 year ago) Permalink
Quick disagreement on this (if it means what I think it means) -- I'm saying the repeated eighth-note propulsion is something VW are not-really-borrowing from the post-77 history of punk/new-wave/indie/alt-rock/etc., the basic keystone of tons of stuff in this vein forever and ever amen, dum dum DUM dum dum dum DUM dum dum dum DUM eternal
― nabisco, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:09 (1 year ago) Permalink
I'm with you, Nabisco. I'm not saying that VW are lifting the entirety of their sound from township music. Velvets/Modern Lovers/Strokes style indie pop is clearly the main inspiration, and I agree that, rythmically and vocally, that's where they're coming from. I'm just talking about maybe 50% of the guitar sound (the "African" part).
― contenderizer, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:14 (1 year ago) Permalink
I think if people cruise by the iTunes store and check out the King Sunny Ade albums "Juju Music" or "Synchro System" for thirty seconds they will hear "that" guitar sound which is instantly familiar if you dig this style.
There are probably tons of micro-detailed specifics to different regions of Africa and different eras of gear but as a genre-specific sound/style/wayofplaying/technology manifold this one is pretty instantly recognizable.
― Drew Daniel, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:17 (1 year ago) Permalink
dum dum DUM dum dum dum DUM dum dum dum DUM --Nabisco
because everyone's jumping everybody eeeeelse's train
― contenderizer, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:19 (1 year ago) Permalink
Drew OTM WR2 King Sunny Ade (and the singularity/recognizability of the basic style).
― contenderizer, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:21 (1 year ago) Permalink
Ha, that's precisely why I found it strange to see (e.g.) Christgau scanning critics about their specific Africa knowledge: I don't doubt that VW have learned about African pop in some detail, but its effect on their sound and their listeners is still that generalized "you know, that smooth, sparkly African guitar sound, from African stuff." (The fact that you can find versions/evidence of it stretching the entire length of sub-Saharan Africa and down to the cape = a good sign of that generalization.)
Haha I used to listen to King Sunny Ade during the year where I worked at the record store next to Columbia
― nabisco, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:23 (1 year ago) Permalink
You said that upthread, Nabisco, when you perhaps implied that they heard the music from you.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:27 (1 year ago) Permalink
I agree, anyway, with your belief that VW's knowledge of African music may well be slight or vague. Or at least (as you now say), that their listeners' may well be. I am struck, in these discussions, by how much extraordinary expertise on African music appears. It's odd, because I'm not sure I know anyone who knows anything about African music, save a) an African colleague and b) Tom Ewing.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:28 (1 year ago) Permalink
O.Nate, I agree that songs in major keys often sound sunny, and I went out of my way to say that I often use such terms without knowing what I mean - certainly in a technical sense. I was just asking whether you thought that VW's keys (rather than the riffs, or the songs as a whole) could be 'sunny'. Perhaps they can.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:30 (1 year ago) Permalink
I don't doubt that VW have learned about African pop in some detail -- nabisco
Does it matter how deep his knowledge is? Or the band's listeners? I mean, I'm a VERY casual, culturally distant fan of yesteryear's African guitar pop. But I still instantly recognized what VW's guitarist was doing and where (in a general sense) he was getting his inspiration from.
― contenderizer, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:34 (1 year ago) Permalink
they sound like they learned about afropop from yamaha keyboard rhythm presets
― bell_labs, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:35 (1 year ago) Permalink
most of the afropop stuff is in the guitar; the keybs are more faux-classical
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:37 (1 year ago) Permalink
I don't think it matters. But I'd presume that they've probably learned more than they're actually applying to their music, and at this point I'd guess they've made it their business to know a bit about it, even just to avoid looking dumb in interviews.
PF, I was not at all implying that anyone heard African music from me -- hell, these guys might not even have started school yet when I worked there! I just find it funny.
― nabisco, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:37 (1 year ago) Permalink
except the bass player, they started Fall '02
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:38 (1 year ago) Permalink
Well then they were around -- the point, though, when I originally mentioned that, was decent turnover in the smallish World/Africa section there
― nabisco, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:41 (1 year ago) Permalink
lol bell_labs
― Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:42 (1 year ago) Permalink
bellolabs
― J0rdan S., Monday, 28 April 2008 20:43 (1 year ago) Permalink
at this point I'd guess they've made it their business to know a bit about it, even just to avoid looking dumb in interviews. -- nabisco
The post, "I Hate Blogging," is about a Harlem hiphop gear shop (it's near Marcus Garvey Memorial Park), and offers us a way to understand the surging popularity of Vampire Weekend. Out of all the baggy and sporty items in the hiphop store, this is what amazes Koenig: The jackets that have logos of Ivy League universities. Hanging between two fluted, Doric pillars are jackets for Harvard, Dartmouth, Yale, Princeton, and Columbia (the school attended by the four members of Vampire Weekend). "What's going on here?" asks Koenig. "Is this Bill Cosby's dream come true? Academic snobbery supplanting 'bling' culture as the pinnacle of prestige for the young hiphop listener? I truly have no idea."
Mudede's Stranger article
― contenderizer, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:49 (1 year ago) Permalink
Then again, maybe that's been discussed to death. I've been away...
― contenderizer, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:50 (1 year ago) Permalink
Is The Stranger dude too dumb to understand that the presence of the Ivy League items in the store might be the most interesting item to an Ivy Leaguer writing for Ivy Leaguers, or that the non-Ivy League items in the store (presumably for non-Division-I-AA teams) are more, you know, obvious and not worth comment? No, he just wants to tell himself he's better than the Ivy League dude wiht the blowing-up band. Though he probably doesn't actually know where 'Marcus Garvey Memorial Park' is.
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:55 (1 year ago) Permalink
- Haha I just ran out to grab coffee and they were playing this in the cafe - Bell is funny but also dead on: the way I enjoy these guys' songs is not particularly different from the way I enjoy various blippy synth-pop acts with Casio-preset sounds (see above re: tidiness and simplicity) - Haha Contenderizer you don't see anything at all interesting in what he's pointing out in that post? It's kinda all the more fascinating coming from someone with the opposite set of blinders (i.e., the luxury of considering such things "academic snobbery")
― nabisco, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:56 (1 year ago) Permalink
I would put $$$ on the proposition that bell labs has heard a fraction of the 'afropop' that Ko3nig has
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 21:08 (1 year ago) Permalink
gabbneb - I don't think Stranger dude is suffering from anything like dumbness. I think he's genuinely amazed at what he perceives to be the irony-blindness of VW dude.
nabisco - I do think the original post is interesting. But I also see some discontinuous tension between VW's African appropriations and Koenig's wide-eyed surprise at the idea that black kids might be borrowing Ivy League status symbols. In other words, I empathize with Mudede's distaste, even if I don't exactly share it.
This not to condemn VW weekend or anything.
― contenderizer, Monday, 28 April 2008 21:09 (1 year ago) Permalink
I think he's genuinely amazed at what he perceives to be the irony-blindness of VW dude.
yeah, I get that; I think that if it isn't faux-naivete, it's just stupidity
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 21:11 (1 year ago) Permalink
I wonder if he's met the former Columbia Daily Spectator editor who does, you know, real reporting for the Stranger
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 21:12 (1 year ago) Permalink
This is a whole other issue, but (a) I'm not entirely convinced Koenig's being irony-blind there, plus (b) I mostly find it fascinating because the blinkers he is definitely wearing are tied VERY closely to half of the reasons people would later have for hating his band
― nabisco, Monday, 28 April 2008 21:38 (1 year ago) Permalink
I'm not entirely convinced Koenig's being irony-blind there
― contenderizer, Monday, 28 April 2008 21:45 (1 year ago) Permalink
the blinkers he is definitely wearing are tied VERY closely to half of the reasons people would later have for hating his band
Anyway, I'd be surprised if "rich kids" complaints had much traction here. The Strokes got a lot of that cuz their privilege seemed incongruous with the rock/punk ethos they superficially projected. But I'd figure VW kind of immunized themselves, A) by not positioning themselves as rockers and, B) by making privilege a big part of their identity.
― contenderizer, Monday, 28 April 2008 21:54 (1 year ago) Permalink
what is his background?
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 21:55 (1 year ago) Permalink
we've been here before
what are these blinkers, pray tell, nabisco?
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 21:57 (1 year ago) Permalink
I might get jumped on for this, and it's a bit of a vague idea, but the blinders I do think he's wearing would seem to be based on the following (and this is talking strictly socially, leaving aside the issue of money/education -- and note that that particular "leaving aside" is another related blinder here):
- the annoying sense shared by lots of young, middle-class white Americans (including LOADS of ILXors, annoyingly, all the TIME) that the pop-culture / social cachet of black Americans is higher/cooler/better/"realer" than theirs (as often expressed in, e.g., calling things "white" in a pejorative sense)
- a related surprise that anyone with that cultural placement would possibly aspire to one of HIS social signifiers as a "nerdy" college kid who will one day get called a smug preppy dork by people on the internet who'd probably identify the Harlemite as cooler/better/"realer"
- the (basically noble) egalitarianism upper-middle-class people are raised with where they learn and believe that distinctions about whether you went to an Ivy or not are snobbish and unrelated to your intelligence or value as a human being
The main irony in this that interests me is that his blindness/confusion on the issue is based on the EXACT same precepts that animate lots of the people who call him a smug, privileged rich kid! In fact, one would assume that it's overexposure to those arguments -- coming, as they almost always do, from young, middle-class white men -- that could lead someone to walk into a Harlem clothing store and be surprised that there's any social cachet being put on Ivy League paraphernalia.
― nabisco, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:02 (1 year ago) Permalink
Clarification: Yes, I'm saying that particular egalitarianism is a blinder, if you walk around thinking of it as a self-evident truth, and not realizing that the egalitarianism is a corrective to the fact that such things still DO matter in ways they probably shouldn't
(Same as if -- by analogy -- you walked around being surprised by racism because you'd been nobly taught to think of all people as equals)
― nabisco, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:05 (1 year ago) Permalink
man luckily we didn't have any of these complicated race/class issues at nyu!
― bell_labs, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:07 (1 year ago) Permalink
barnard? more like BARNYARD OINK OINK AMIRITE
― bell_labs, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:10 (1 year ago) Permalink
Anyone who 'calls things "white" in a pejorative sense' is an idiot, at best.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:17 (1 year ago) Permalink
the annoying sense shared by lots of young, middle-class white Americans (including LOADS of ILXors, annoyingly, all the TIME) that the pop-culture / social cachet of black Americans is higher/cooler/better/"realer" than theirs
hunh?!
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:30 (1 year ago) Permalink
I think the problem here is you're envisioning a different store than I am. I see just yr average sporting goods store, which if it has paraphernalia for any college, has stuff for schools you see playing sports on tv. No social cachet of any kind involved.
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:31 (1 year ago) Permalink
and I think the source of the confusion is The presumably Seattleite Stranger dude's game of telephone where he transmogrifies a store in exotic Harlem into a cool hiphop store. He's the one doing the social cachet-ing (along with the 'Marcus Garvey park' reference), not Koenig.
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:33 (1 year ago) Permalink
No one sees Harvard playing sports on TV. That's not what Harvard is or means. Harvard means wealth and academic/intellectual accomplishment. To wear a Harvard jacket is to claim association with those things. Especially if one didn't, you know, actually go to Harvard.
Plus, the average sporting goods stores in NY don't (or didn't, in 2006) carry Harvard jackets. "Hip-hop gear shops" are a totally different animal, though there's a lot of crossover.
― contenderizer, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:37 (1 year ago) Permalink
jesus god this awful thread
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:39 (1 year ago) Permalink
Remember that Koenig himself describes the store not as a sporting goods place, but an "urban wear" store (quotes his). "They sell the usual assortment of Roc-a-wear, Girbaud, Akademiks, Enyce, etc. In addition, they also sell a complete line of Ivy League varsity-style jackets."
― contenderizer, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:39 (1 year ago) Permalink
i can't tell if you're contending with me, but you're saying the same thing i am, xxp
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:40 (1 year ago) Permalink
how is this (completely basic truth) a "blinder"? you think ivy-leaguers are better human beings?
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:41 (1 year ago) Permalink
xxp, ok, but I still think the Seattleite dude is imagining a different sort of store/social cachet than Koenig is
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:41 (1 year ago) Permalink
"I got a squeezer from an Indian girl on a bunk bed, so I think I got the whole Harvard experience."
― Gukbe, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:46 (1 year ago) Permalink
'the Ivy League' is something you learn about from tv, yes
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:47 (1 year ago) Permalink
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NyzQwwO4Os
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:50 (1 year ago) Permalink
Umm hi banriquit, I just said:
Yes, I'm saying that particular egalitarianism is a blinder, if you walk around thinking of it as a self-evident truth, and not realizing that the egalitarianism is a corrective to the fact that such things still DO matter in ways they probably shouldn't(Same as if -- by analogy -- you walked around being surprised by racism because you'd been nobly taught to think of all people as equals)
Yes, it is a basic truth, but if you're so comfortable with that truth that you're surprised by any kind of aspirationalism or social status being placed on such things, then you are missing part of the picture. (That's what blinders do to horses: keep them focused on where they're headed by keeping them from seeing what's off to the sides of it)
― nabisco, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:25 (1 year ago) Permalink
i'm not surprised by aspirationalism at all, and i don't think it's wrongheaded exactly. but you're talking about 'social status', and implicitly wealth there, rather than value as a human being or intelligence. i think a bigger blinder here would be the idea the ivy league stands for human virtue and the disinterested play of intelligence. but this is off-topic of VW's fundamental averageness.
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:30 (1 year ago) Permalink
again, I didn't read him as necessarily being surprised at cachet being placed on such things (status and aspirationalism are also separate concepts - you can wear a team jacket without aspiring to be part of the team), but at the inclusion of an ivy league 'vibe' within the roc-a-wear, e.g.-vibed store
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:30 (1 year ago) Permalink
how many dudes in Harlem wearing North Face jackets in the late 90s were into mountain-climbing?
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:35 (1 year ago) Permalink
jesus god this awful thread band
-- banriquit, Monday, April 28, 2008 5:39 PM (56 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
― PoMXII, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:36 (1 year ago) Permalink
mountain climbing, electric guitar, etc...
― jhøshea, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:36 (1 year ago) Permalink
you went there, not me
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:42 (1 year ago) Permalink
"You" didn't mean you, Banriquit, it means Koenig.
Also what I'm saying includes "wealth" as a part of "Ivy League" if you want it to be -- i.e., it's a fairly large blinder if your mental egalitarianism about wealth and social status leads to your being surprised that other people care about projecting wealth to gain social status
(I just don't happen to think that's precisely the issue Koenig seems to be having there, and anyway we should probably avoid psychoanalyzing the hell out of a couple sentences)
― nabisco, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:44 (1 year ago) Permalink
Irony isn't part of the equation here ... it's simple, straight forward, and honest. These kids are 4th generation Ivy Leaguers and that's the image they work with. Big whoop; whether you dig it or not is up to u. The Strokes were a different situation; they had the whole punk/up-from-the-street image thing, but they got to where they were with the help of their big wig Manhattan socialite parents. That's not exactly new, though.
― burt_stanton, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:59 (1 year ago) Permalink
Where did the "4th generation" come from, Mr. Stanton?
― nabisco, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 00:06 (1 year ago) Permalink
I don't know, I read one of those interviews where the dude described his Ivy League lineage. 2nd or 3rd maybe. Or I hallucinated the whole fucking thing, which is the most likely case.
― burt_stanton, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 00:07 (1 year ago) Permalink
(I agree with most of the rest of that, by the way: they act and play about like the semi-nerdy Columbia kids they are, and don't much seem to be pretending to be anything else. I find this refreshing and kinda novel.)
xpost Yeah that number just shrunk by two legacies, innit
― nabisco, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 00:12 (1 year ago) Permalink
innit
― max, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 02:06 (1 year ago) Permalink
anyone in ldn going to this? http://www.nme.com/news/vampire-weekend/36514
― gabbneb, Saturday, 10 May 2008 18:17 (1 year ago) Permalink
New Yorkers Vampire Weekend, tipped to be one of the biggest new stars of 2008. Pic: Jo McCaughey
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 10 May 2008 18:19 (1 year ago) Permalink
got the record and am really liking some of the guitar lines. some of this is really nice and catchy and tight
― Charlie Howard, Monday, 12 May 2008 15:15 (1 year ago) Permalink
a bit slow on the uptake with this one. i only just heard it. like what i hear so far, but assumed they were a british band, and was pleased that the uk could still at least feebly muster up a semi-interesting guitar band. now i'm disappointed, as there's plenty other stuff coming out of NYC that is better than this.
― the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 08:35 (1 year ago) Permalink
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/aug/03/popandrock
"The Hold Steady's Craig Finn is not shy about stating his literary intentions. 'I consider myself a writer as well as a songwriter,' he says. 'The further we get on from the birth of rock'n'roll, the more people who have ambitions to be a writer feel that rock'n'roll is a worthy art form to express themselves in.'"
― the pinefox, Sunday, 3 August 2008 11:56 (1 year ago) Permalink
^^^a certain ilx poster better turn up and apologise for that article asap
― The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics, Sunday, 3 August 2008 12:05 (1 year ago) Permalink
American music is enjoying a golden moment. Literary bands, with songs that revel in intricate language, complex narratives and cinematic plot twists, are on the rise.
!!!! (Actually, I think this is true.)
― Daniel, Esq., Sunday, 3 August 2008 15:57 (1 year ago) Permalink
'Becoming a rock star is something more graduates with literature degrees do than before,' says Benjamin Kunkel, novelist and co-editor of the New York journal n+1, which blends literary theory with pop culture. 'Rock'n'roll, which used to be for people under 30, is something you listen to from cradle to grave these days, and that puts new pressure on lyrics to be meaningful and intelligent.'
ugh x infinity
― velko, Sunday, 3 August 2008 17:01 (1 year ago) Permalink
Anyone who considers serial commas "an obscure point of grammar" is not someone I trust to think about what's "literary" and what's not.
But I already feel like I've spent too much of my life trying to assure both music people and lit music that the judgments they map onto the other just Do Not Work and are not as interesting as they seem, so maybe we can refer here to one of those Believer music-issue threads and have done with it.
― nabisco, Sunday, 3 August 2008 18:52 (1 year ago) Permalink
Probably having a strongly held opinion about the use of the Oxford Comma, though, is. I assume most English speakers don't know about the difference between using a comma before the 'and' or after the 'and.' And especially don't know why you'd be pro-one or the other. (Personally, I love the Oxford comma. That's the way I was taught to do it in Grade School, and it helps remove ambiguities. 'I like to eat pizza, fish and chips,' V 'I like to eat pizza, fish, and chips.')
― Mordy, Sunday, 3 August 2008 18:59 (1 year ago) Permalink
I believe board policy states that I only have to apologize if people are forced to look at my picture, so I'm golden here
― J0hn D., Sunday, 3 August 2008 19:18 (1 year ago) Permalink
WTF
The Brooklyn band are noticeably short on the sort of lyrical refrains that make you want to shout along and throw beer over your friends.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 3 August 2008 19:22 (1 year ago) Permalink
^^^^ Unlike, say, The Shins or Death Cab For Cutie. Hooligans.
― Daniel, Esq., Sunday, 3 August 2008 19:26 (1 year ago) Permalink
New song Ottoman is pretty good. A lot calmer than the new stuff I've heard live. It's out there now...
― Beast, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 15:48 (1 year ago) Permalink
Their cover of Everywhere is great, it just gives you the song straight up and finds a few nice dynamics in the arrangements. I never realised that song was as good without the vocoder, which is why I thought it was good.
― I know, right?, Monday, 29 September 2008 09:54 (1 year ago) Permalink
They played a couple of new songs in Sheffield last night, but I don't think "Ottoman" was one of them. The second of them was particularly heavy on that ringing 1980s hi-life/Bhundus guitar style, and very tidy it sounded too.
The band did seem a little swamped by the hugeness of the venue (Sheffield Carling Academy) I'm guessing c.3000 in attendance, most of whom knew most of the words, so it was a case of people's collective memories compensating for the poor sound (drums way too high, vocals too low, bass swallowed up by the general muddy echoey rumble). Not many people there over 25. Lots and lots of dressed-up girly girls, which makes a nice change (I'm told they're a major feature at Kings Of Leon shows).
"Everywhere" was the first encore. Everyone knew the words to that one, as well. That surprised me.
― mike t-diva, Thursday, 23 October 2008 15:54 (1 year ago) Permalink
http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2008/11/fucked_up_vampi.html#more
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 01:31 (1 year ago) Permalink
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 01:39 (1 year ago) Permalink
Early this year, when some college friends and I filmed a skit spoofing indie rock (and specifically hyped bands like VW), we would dress somewhat ridiculously, like this:
Little did we know that Vampire Weekend's actual publicity shots would defy our parody by mirroring it. I saw this photo after we filmed our video, so we didn't copy that one guy's outfit.
It's reminiscent of when McDonalds actually used Minor Threat in an ad campaign, two years after an ILXor joked about that very marriage of brands.
― Cunga, Friday, 19 December 2008 20:33 (1 year ago) Permalink
Try these images again:
http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/3/12/19/f_parodym_b269e30.jpg
http://img03.picoodle.com/img/img03/3/12/19/f_VampireWeekm_569ce38.jpg
― Cunga, Friday, 19 December 2008 20:45 (1 year ago) Permalink
I don't think that's an outfit, I think that's a pile of scarves strewn on a conventionally dressed person
― nabisco, Friday, 19 December 2008 20:47 (1 year ago) Permalink
i think the VW photo came first
― The Federal Reserve Ban of New York (gabbneb), Friday, 19 December 2008 21:02 (1 year ago) Permalink
It probably did for all we know. We just discovered how hard it is to parody certain trends without it evolving into looking like a sincere homage or appearing prophetic.
― Cunga, Saturday, 20 December 2008 09:09 (1 year ago) Permalink
i like these guys til the vocals kick in. nice african influences although a bit twee and usually not that well integrated but then you hear the singing and it ruins everything. best track on the album is the one that sounds like the strokes. or actually the ones without the african influences like the one with the violins.
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Saturday, 20 December 2008 10:53 (1 year ago) Permalink
so . . . these guys are still partying on cape cod? p4ork4ever
― kamerad, Tuesday, 17 March 2009 05:44 (10 months ago) Permalink
― nabisco, Friday, December 19, 2008 3:47 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark
That ain't an outfit, it's a scarves race.
― Bonobos in Paneradise (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 17 March 2009 05:50 (10 months ago) Permalink
RIP burt_stanton. This thread makes me miss the guy.
― unexpected item in bagging area (sarahel), Tuesday, 17 March 2009 07:24 (10 months ago) Permalink
dudes took it next level on fallon
― the name's ban. suggest ban (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 19 March 2009 05:33 (10 months ago) Permalink
LOVED that song.
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 19 March 2009 05:34 (10 months ago) Permalink
yeah "white sky" is remarkable (now with strings!!) but i mean the whole spectacle... ezra's fleece windbreaker and 7th grade yearbook photo hair, the string players in tweed (?) hoodies, the rasta dude off to the back fumbling w/ some jug thing, the goofy drummer wearing sunglasses etc
― the name's ban. suggest ban (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 19 March 2009 05:37 (10 months ago) Permalink
here is that "White Sky" song from their next album:
― Bee OK, Friday, 20 March 2009 02:50 (10 months ago) Permalink
are those hemp hoodies?
― Bonobos in Paneradise (Hurting 2), Friday, 20 March 2009 03:00 (10 months ago) Permalink
wow. worse than i could have imagined. like a band made up of all the millenials i work with...
― iago g., Friday, 20 March 2009 03:50 (10 months ago) Permalink
i was about to post that he'd become a better live singer since their snl performance until 1:49 ...
thought that the paul simon comparisons were a little overblown first time around but this sounds like a graceland outtake with strings and embarrassing falsetto.
― uptown churl, Friday, 20 March 2009 04:10 (10 months ago) Permalink
― Bonobos in Paneradise (Hurting 2), Friday, 20 March 2009 04:17 (10 months ago) Permalink
― Johnny Fever, 05:34 יום חמישי 19 מרץ 2009 (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yeah "white sky" is remarkable..
OBJECTION!
― Zeno, Friday, 20 March 2009 04:50 (10 months ago) Permalink
it might be good with more guitars,less strings and not trying to play it too safe.
― Zeno, Friday, 20 March 2009 04:55 (10 months ago) Permalink
or the faster version (which is better):
― Bee OK, Friday, 20 March 2009 04:59 (10 months ago) Permalink
So, I am not sure if there's another thread talking about this, but has anyone heard the cover of "Cape Cod Kwassa Kwassa" that Peter Gabriel and Hot Chip have done?
It now completely sounds like Gabriel meets Paul Simon. Oh and is roffle because he sings "But this feels so unnatural/Peter Gabriel too/ It feels so unnatural/to sing your own name" LOL.
Sorry if this was in another thread.
― one art, please (Trayce), Tuesday, 7 April 2009 23:52 (10 months ago) Permalink
what are ppls thoughts on discovery
― just sayin, Thursday, 21 May 2009 10:09 (8 months ago) Permalink
Hartley vs McBain: Vampire Weekend as Sophomores
― oj da hoosman (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 21 May 2009 10:11 (8 months ago) Permalink
btw I like the discovery album but then I would
― ❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉Plaxico❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉ (I know, right?), Tuesday, 14 July 2009 20:25 (6 months ago) Permalink
It's tuneless and empty to my ears; the only song I've kept is the Koenig collaboration.
― My name is Kenny! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 July 2009 20:26 (6 months ago) Permalink
this summer fall in love with autotune, all over again
― ❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉Plaxico❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉ (I know, right?), Tuesday, 14 July 2009 20:36 (6 months ago) Permalink
is it okay to call this r&twee? i think i'm going to
― shamwow holdingtongue (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 16 July 2009 00:43 (6 months ago) Permalink
To call it that there would have to be "rhythm."
― My name is Kenny! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 July 2009 00:44 (6 months ago) Permalink
i really like this - i like that it sounds like what it is, which is two white indie kids doing r&b, and i think it serious enough but doesn't seem like they're playing dress up and it's playful enough but not like lonely island
also i think the hooks are good
― shamwow holdingtongue (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 16 July 2009 00:47 (6 months ago) Permalink
and i think it's serious enough but doesn't seem like they're playing dress up and it's playful enough but not like lonely island
i really wasn't sure if they were going to be able to balance this out but they did!! doesn't surprise me tho because i think rostam is really talented and pretty underrated in the sphere of vampire weekend's press always being about africa and ezra and columbia and money - the dude writes really good keyboard & strings parts for vw
― shamwow holdingtongue (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 16 July 2009 00:48 (6 months ago) Permalink
i have been listening to this album alot lately, and i mostly disliked vw. i prefer this guy's singing to ezra's and all of these songs are basically instantly likeable. it`s pretty bedroom-ey, or atleast laptop-ey, but the songs aren`t weaker as a result somehow. sure the production could be more layered and less cheap-sounding but that`s not really the point here i don`t think.
― samosa gibreel, Thursday, 16 July 2009 01:57 (6 months ago) Permalink
I'm kinda shocked at the response. This guy's melodies define weak -- it's fourth-rate Kelly Polar. The best song is the Koenig number, mostly because for about a week I liked his version of a Kylie voice.
― My name is Kenny! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 July 2009 02:09 (6 months ago) Permalink
I'm kinda shocked at how much I like this. I'm pretty susceptible to fake teen movie music though and a big sucker for lines like "I promise to leave before your mother wakes up in the morning." Kindof an indie "I gotta feeling" imo.
― ❊❁❄❆❇❃✴❈plaxico❈✴❃❇❆❄❁❊ (I know, right?), Thursday, 23 July 2009 14:03 (6 months ago) Permalink
you're right, definitely an indie version of this:
― uncannydan, Thursday, 23 July 2009 22:29 (6 months ago) Permalink
i like that it sounds like what it is, which is two white indie kids doing r&b
not to get on your case in particular but GEEZ COME ON
― nabisco, Thursday, 23 July 2009 22:40 (6 months ago) Permalink
I mean REALLY
― nabisco, Thursday, 23 July 2009 22:44 (6 months ago) Permalink
fwiw, calling these guys "white" is way is totally different than calling Jamie Lidell "white"
― Hypnagog Minds (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 23 July 2009 22:46 (6 months ago) Permalink
blue eyed soul dude. some of it's good guilty pleasure shit
― Spectrum, Thursday, 23 July 2009 22:47 (6 months ago) Permalink
"guilty pleasure" went out with the miniskirt and the Twist.
― Heric E. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 23 July 2009 22:56 (6 months ago) Permalink
Soto on fire today
― Hypnagog Minds (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 23 July 2009 22:57 (6 months ago) Permalink
How does that make any sense? Bowie, Brian Ferry, 90% of the 80s, etc.
― Spectrum, Thursday, 23 July 2009 22:59 (6 months ago) Permalink
― nabisco, Thursday, July 23, 2009 5:40 PM (35 minutes ago) Bookmark
?? i don't think it's a pejorative to say that they sound "white" because they do, much more so than, like whiney says, jamie lidell or even the soulful songs at the end of the last hot chip album
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 23 July 2009 23:19 (6 months ago) Permalink
the Discovery record is as soulful as Howard Jones' Dream into Action.
― Heric E. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 23 July 2009 23:21 (6 months ago) Permalink
DUDE IS PERSIAN
― nabisco, Thursday, 23 July 2009 23:21 (6 months ago) Permalink
Two things:
1) I've gotten way back into Vampire Weekend this summer. It seems like the hotter and more humid the weather, the more I enjoy listening to the album.
2) Who are the Arctic Monkeys of 2009?
― Mordy, Thursday, 23 July 2009 23:23 (6 months ago) Permalink
the singer is from syracuse
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 23 July 2009 23:25 (6 months ago) Permalink
or fine:
it sounds like what it is - indie r&b (really should have taken more offense to me calling this r&b - it's certainly more r&b in the way the-dream is [and that's to say very pop] than in the way ne-yo is) influenced by white people like daft punk, whom they take their name from.
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 23 July 2009 23:28 (6 months ago) Permalink
ha, Jordan, you're clear on what I'm picking on here, right?
i like that it sounds like what it is, which is two white indie kids
I mean I don't know the guy's exact background or who his parents are, but it's been bugging me for over a year that everyone just instinctively turns a guy "white" because it better fits their mental categories of class/race/manner.
― nabisco, Thursday, 23 July 2009 23:29 (6 months ago) Permalink
^^ this is referring to the person named Rostam Batmanglij who is confirmably Persian on at least one parent's side, if not both
― nabisco, Thursday, 23 July 2009 23:30 (6 months ago) Permalink
if you consider Persian people "white," I apologize for raising the issue
― nabisco, Thursday, 23 July 2009 23:31 (6 months ago) Permalink
i don't, but race is pretty inessential to how i feel about them anyway - the "indie" part of what i said matters much more in the context of the album
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 23 July 2009 23:33 (6 months ago) Permalink
I don't believe that's an entirely honest statement, dude, considering your description of them "two white indie kids doing r&b," which seems to me to clearly be invoking some element of race in the coding of "indie" vs "r&b" -- as far as this music goes I'm actually with you on how that distinction doesn't feel significant with them, but obviously what I was getting at was a total side issue about forcing round pegs into square holes of race-coding
(it's not a big deal and I'm done -- I agree with you about the record!)
― nabisco, Thursday, 23 July 2009 23:39 (6 months ago) Permalink
ok, thx for pointing it out tho, i get where you're coming from
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 23 July 2009 23:47 (6 months ago) Permalink
i'm white btw
oh shit
― Heric E. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 23 July 2009 23:55 (6 months ago) Permalink
aren't we all these days
― nabisco, Thursday, 23 July 2009 23:55 (6 months ago) Permalink
no xpost required
― Heric E. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 24 July 2009 00:03 (6 months ago) Permalink
BATMANglij
― ❊❁❄❆❇❃✴❈plaxico❈✴❃❇❆❄❁❊ (I know, right?), Friday, 24 July 2009 00:03 (6 months ago) Permalink
If this is quoting any RnB I would say Ryan Leslie. Can You Discover sounds really like Gibberish.
― ❊❁❄❆❇❃✴❈plaxico❈✴❃❇❆❄❁❊ (I know, right?), Friday, 24 July 2009 17:13 (6 months ago) Permalink
also Danjahands metronome hihats iirc
― ❊❁❄❆❇❃✴❈plaxico❈✴❃❇❆❄❁❊ (I know, right?), Saturday, 25 July 2009 11:42 (6 months ago) Permalink
From this candid interview, it's easy to see what a great guy rostam is:
The night would not have been complete without Rostam Batmanglij, the grumpiest Vampiric Weekender. Did he ever finish that song I always heard him working on when he lived directly below my boyfriend?
“Yes, I did. It’s number seven on Hype Machine.”Is it for your solo project?“Are you writing this down? Can you not quote me?”
http://www.nypress.com/article-19805-bash-compactor-this-bites.html
― s. p. erkel, Saturday, 25 July 2009 18:09 (6 months ago) Permalink
― The Reverend, Saturday, 25 July 2009 19:47 (6 months ago) Permalink
http://twitter.com/mileycyrus/statuses/3706721085
It's been fun, indie rawk. Good night, sweet prince.
― Cunga, Thursday, 10 September 2009 08:09 (4 months ago) Permalink
New album in January. Contra.
01 Horchata02 White Sky03 Holiday04 California English05 Taxi Cab06 Run07 Cousins08 Giving Up the Gun09 Diplomat's Son10 I Think Ur a Contra
― The Devil's Avocado (Gukbe), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 23:38 (4 months ago) Permalink
IS THAT ALBUM COVER A JOKE???
I THINK I LIKE IT!!
― surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally, Tuesday, 15 September 2009 23:47 (4 months ago) Permalink
I hope it's the real cover, because I'm going to buy it and stare at it for hours.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 15 September 2009 23:49 (4 months ago) Permalink
cool, but deserves its own thread. still really like that album.
― Bee OK, Wednesday, 16 September 2009 00:24 (4 months ago) Permalink
nice cover pic of preppy girl and reaganesque title--way to tweak the haters!
― iago g., Thursday, 17 September 2009 02:17 (4 months ago) Permalink
I THINK UR A CONTRA
O I GET IT LIKE CONTRAPUNTAL LOLZ
In [life], counterpoint is the relationship between two or more [people] that are independent in contour and rhythm and are [sexually] interdependent.
― LEGOS by Atlas Sound (coming eventually, 2009 or 2010) (Future_Perfect), Thursday, 17 September 2009 03:06 (4 months ago) Permalink
Haha. The collar on her yellow polo shirt is turned up. JUST LIKE PREPPIES IN THE 80S!
I have no real interest in this band, but that album cover is going to make me a fan.
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 17 September 2009 03:10 (4 months ago) Permalink
― LEGOS by Atlas Sound (coming eventually, 2009 or 2010) (Future_Perfect), Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:06 AM (16 hours ago) Bookmark
No dice! It's Contra as in an oh-so-cheeky inversion of Sandinista! You've heard of the Clash, right? And the girl looks like the hottie in Caddyshack...
― iago g., Thursday, 17 September 2009 19:19 (4 months ago) Permalink
is this from the new album?http://hypem.com/track/905801/Vampire+Weekend+-+Ottomancause it's a pretty bad song
― Zeno, Thursday, 24 September 2009 16:50 (4 months ago) Permalink
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A
― deus ex lawnmower (latebloomer), Saturday, 26 September 2009 06:24 (4 months ago) Permalink
I really like that track! Can't wait for this album
― Dan S, Saturday, 26 September 2009 06:36 (4 months ago) Permalink
Ottoman is from the Nick and Norah's Infinite Playlist soundtrack, but I agree... it's a great song.
― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 26 September 2009 06:42 (4 months ago) Permalink
new song on vampireweekend.com
curious to hear thoughts.
― akaky akakievich, Monday, 5 October 2009 21:03 (4 months ago) Permalink
Love it. I've already listened to it 10 times or so. Also, I've never had horchata, and now I'm going looking for some.
Vampire Weekend: stimulating the local economy.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 5 October 2009 21:04 (4 months ago) Permalink
Music's . . . okay, tho unmemorable. But I hate this group's cod-rock vibe.
"In December, drinkin' hawtchowddddaaaaa . . . " Blech.
― Daniel, Esq., Monday, 5 October 2009 21:11 (4 months ago) Permalink
Oh, sorry. It's "drinkin' Horchata," not "drinkin' hot chowda."
The facts may change, but my opinion never will.
― Daniel, Esq., Monday, 5 October 2009 21:19 (4 months ago) Permalink
ugggggggggggggggggggggggggggh
― Mr. Que, Monday, 5 October 2009 21:19 (4 months ago) Permalink
"In December drinking horchata/ I look psychotic in a balaclava,
― Mr. Que, Monday, 5 October 2009 21:20 (4 months ago) Permalink
― Mr. Que, Monday, October 5, 2009 9:19 PM (43 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i'm indebted enough with these guys to like this song a lot but i can't help but think that they are explicitly trolling with these lyrics
― autogoon delight (J0rdan S.), Monday, 5 October 2009 21:54 (4 months ago) Permalink
In December, drinking horchata/I’d look psychotic in a balaclava. Winter’s cold is too much to handle/Pincher crabs that pinch in your sandals.In December, drinking horchata/Look down your glasses at that aranciata/With lips and teeth to ask how my day went/Boots and fists to pound on the pavement.Here comes a feeling you thought you’d forgotten/Chairs to sit and sidewalks to walk on.You’d remember drinking horchata/You’d still enjoy it with your foot on Masada.
In December, drinking horchata/Look down your glasses at that aranciata/With lips and teeth to ask how my day went/Boots and fists to pound on the pavement.
Here comes a feeling you thought you’d forgotten/Chairs to sit and sidewalks to walk on.
You’d remember drinking horchata/You’d still enjoy it with your foot on Masada.
― Daniel, Esq., Monday, 5 October 2009 21:58 (4 months ago) Permalink
Vampire Weekend Secures Place As The Jimmy Buffet Of The Oughts.
― Daniel, Esq., Monday, 5 October 2009 21:59 (4 months ago) Permalink
the thing is, the rhyming and phrasing is really pleasant, which is something that is def carried over from the first album but there's no way that the imagery isn't two big middle fingers to their haters
― autogoon delight (J0rdan S.), Monday, 5 October 2009 22:05 (4 months ago) Permalink
also i think it's important to note that ezra is kind of a goofy guy (cf his fake horror film that is the original 'vampire weekend', his jokey rapping in college) and i think rhyming shit like horchata and balaclava is his way of writing 'fun' carefree music. certainly i think that he uses his lyrics to play around with language moreso than try and rouse the listener's emotions (in this sense it's not that far from a lot of rap music)
― autogoon delight (J0rdan S.), Monday, 5 October 2009 22:08 (4 months ago) Permalink
Indie schmindie.
And I like indie.
"(in this sense it's not that far from a lot of rap music)." Somewhere, the Wu-Tang Clan is groaning with disbelief.
― Daniel, Esq., Monday, 5 October 2009 22:10 (4 months ago) Permalink
nah i mean, if you look at a lot of lil wayne's mixtape stuff or late 90s/early 2000s jay-z or 08/09 gucci mane, you see guys who are mostly writing lyrics where rhyming and phrasing and creating images that are evocative but not necessarily meaningful or connected are more important than conveying like concrete feelings which is obv what a lot of indie rock is about
(it's easy too to draw a connection between like some of ghostface's solo work and craig finn)
― autogoon delight (J0rdan S.), Monday, 5 October 2009 22:19 (4 months ago) Permalink
It is a natural comparison:
Lil Wayne: F--k The WorldLook, look, lookA young nigga screaming fuck the world and let 'em dieBehind tints, tryna' duck the world and smoking rieGot my bandanna 'round my head and pants to my feetAnd got my eyes fire red and glock on my seatI'm tryna' stay under intoxication'Cause I lost my father, and got a daughter, plus I'm on probationI'm drinking liquor like it's water, getting pissy drunkAnd staying away from them lil' broads that trying to give me someI keep a chopper in the trunk and my heat on my wastelineDucking the law, 'cause I ain't tryna' do no FED timeSometimes I just wish I could be awayBut I gotta take care of Reginae and keep macita straightSo I just maintain the struggle and I keep tryingBut how can I when my closest people keep dyin'I ain't lying that the law tryna' bust my cliqueBut I scream fuck the world man, I'm too young for this
Look, look, lookA young nigga screaming fuck the world and let 'em dieBehind tints, tryna' duck the world and smoking rieGot my bandanna 'round my head and pants to my feetAnd got my eyes fire red and glock on my seatI'm tryna' stay under intoxication'Cause I lost my father, and got a daughter, plus I'm on probationI'm drinking liquor like it's water, getting pissy drunkAnd staying away from them lil' broads that trying to give me someI keep a chopper in the trunk and my heat on my wastelineDucking the law, 'cause I ain't tryna' do no FED timeSometimes I just wish I could be awayBut I gotta take care of Reginae and keep macita straightSo I just maintain the struggle and I keep tryingBut how can I when my closest people keep dyin'I ain't lying that the law tryna' bust my cliqueBut I scream fuck the world man, I'm too young for this
Vampire Weekend: HorchataIn December, drinking horchata/I’d look psychotic in a balaclava. Winter’s cold is too much to handle/Pincher crabs that pinch in your sandals.In December, drinking horchata/Look down your glasses at that aranciata/With lips and teeth to ask how my day went/Boots and fists to pound on the pavement.Here comes a feeling you thought you’d forgotten/Chairs to sit and sidewalks to walk on.You’d remember drinking horchata/You’d still enjoy it with your foot on Masada.
― Daniel, Esq., Monday, 5 October 2009 22:24 (4 months ago) Permalink
(Okay, okay, I assume you meant the people on Lil Wayne's mixtapes, not Lil Wayne himself.)
― Daniel, Esq., Monday, 5 October 2009 22:25 (4 months ago) Permalink
I think what he means is just "liking fun/interesting rhymes for their own sake"
― nabisco, Monday, 5 October 2009 22:25 (4 months ago) Permalink
Yes, but you're killing my buzz with "reasoned argument."
― Daniel, Esq., Monday, 5 October 2009 22:26 (4 months ago) Permalink
(j/k . . . I get J0rdan's point)
― Daniel, Esq., Monday, 5 October 2009 22:27 (4 months ago) Permalink
and like, i would be willing to believe that ezra 'freestyles' a lot of his lyrics. the opening line of "horchata" flows so smoothly & easily is & is so tied to that tinkling melody that it sounds like to me he came up with it in almost one take
― autogoon delight (J0rdan S.), Monday, 5 October 2009 22:41 (4 months ago) Permalink
anyway i think this song is fantastic
I dunno how I feel about the song yet, but I like that a song about horchata now exists.
― katherine helmand province (jaymc), Monday, 5 October 2009 22:45 (4 months ago) Permalink
i really liked the guitar a lot on the first album, probably the thing i liked best about most of their songs. this definitely has an AC/panda bear thing going on with that break down with the steel drum-ish synths and "OOOHHHHHHHs". obviously there's a bunch more shit going on at the end...still kinda disappointing
― surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally, Monday, 5 October 2009 22:51 (4 months ago) Permalink
I don't see the similarities with AC. Musically if not lyrically I think this song is great, and the complexity and subtlety of their musical arrangements is always underrated, because the focus is always on what they represent.
― Dan S, Monday, 5 October 2009 22:56 (4 months ago) Permalink
to me this sounds like potentially their best song
― autogoon delight (J0rdan S.), Monday, 5 October 2009 23:19 (4 months ago) Permalink
i really liked the guitar a lot on the first album
Me too, but I also like its non-presence on this track in favor of some cheapo synthy sounds. I'll never be a VW apologist and won't defend them if it takes more than a minute of my time, but I really like what they do.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 5 October 2009 23:24 (4 months ago) Permalink
omg this is worse than when he spilled kefir on his keffiyah
song is pretty good though
― een, Tuesday, 6 October 2009 00:25 (4 months ago) Permalink
I like the bass line a lot; it's the string stuff that's more annoying this time -- it's cloying when set against Koenig's voice.
― Roman Polanski now sleeps in prison. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 October 2009 01:24 (4 months ago) Permalink
there is nothing "indie schmindie" about this song or vampire weekend
― the rap battle of algiernod (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 6 October 2009 02:41 (4 months ago) Permalink
this is pretty good, i like ottoman a bit more. most annoying thing is that he sounds the "h" in horchata. death vessel did it right on their first record fyi.
― yellow card for favre (call all destroyer), Tuesday, 6 October 2009 02:48 (4 months ago) Permalink
VW is one indie band that i think can grow sonically for as long as they want and still make music that is interesting & good. rostam and ezra are just really great musicians, i think that def got lost in the fervor over their choice of college and brand of button up
― autogoon delight (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 6 October 2009 02:52 (4 months ago) Permalink
true--it doesn't get mentioned much but tons of the first album was pretty much home-recorded. dudes have some untapped potential still.
― yellow card for favre (call all destroyer), Tuesday, 6 October 2009 02:55 (4 months ago) Permalink
How sublime! I hope this weekend never ends.
― mo radalj, Tuesday, 6 October 2009 03:08 (4 months ago) Permalink
This song is really good, so here are my reasons for not liking this band:
― sleepingbag, Tuesday, 6 October 2009 17:02 (4 months ago) Permalink
i assume that is a picture of them wearing nice clothes that is blocked at my work?
― yellow card for favre (call all destroyer), Tuesday, 6 October 2009 17:24 (4 months ago) Permalink
Jody Rosen and Jonah Weiner discuss "Horchata":
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/browbeat/archive/2009/10/07/track-of-the-week-vampire-weekend-s-horchata.aspx
― o. nate, Thursday, 8 October 2009 18:45 (4 months ago) Permalink
This song is really good, so here are my reasons for not liking this band:― sleepingbag, Tuesday, October 6, 2009
― sleepingbag, Tuesday, October 6, 2009
Yes yes, go on.
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 8 October 2009 18:50 (4 months ago) Permalink
glad we'll be covering the exact same critical ground again when this album drops
― don't blame pitchfork, blame america (call all destroyer), Thursday, 8 October 2009 18:53 (4 months ago) Permalink
Awesome, let's poll this.
― Roman Polanski now sleeps in prison. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 8 October 2009 18:56 (4 months ago) Permalink
Faust Arp
― Unisom beeitchs. (Matt P), Thursday, 8 October 2009 19:31 (4 months ago) Permalink
some good stuff in that slate bit
J.R.: I like Koenig, too. Good songwriter. I can't quite fathom the criticism leveled at Vampire Weekend for being, you know, too Ivy League, too effete. That's the point! They're owning it. And I think there's more intentional self-parody in Vampire Weekend's songs than they're given credit for. There's an ironic distance between the well-heeled, hyper-verbal post-collegiates who populate VW songs and Koenig himself. Although, of course, he fits that description. Come to think of it, there's a bit of Whit Stillman in the posture—the lovingly detailed, amused depiction of, as the Metropolitan director would have it, the Urban Haute Bourgeoisie. In any case, what I really like about this band are the hooks and the nifty arrangements.
this is super otm imo
― there's a blap for that (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 8 October 2009 20:18 (4 months ago) Permalink
yeah i dunno how you could hear a line like "spilled kefir on your keffiyah" and not get a strong stillman/allen vibe off the whole thing.
― goole, Thursday, 8 October 2009 20:22 (4 months ago) Permalink
I guess they're just not made for my ears, tho I like them enough to have downloaded the debut (and I'll probably download the new disc, too). I like some of the influences I hear rumbling around the music. It's the final product that somehow leaves me cold or -- with respect to some of the lyrics -- makes me wince. You can see them as "writing lyrics where rhyming and phrasing and creating images that are evocative but not necessarily meaningful," à la Lil Wayne. I see them as "writing lyrics where rhyming and phrasing and creating images that are evocative but not necessarily meaningful," à la Barenaked Ladies.
Not trying to be a jackass, tho. De gustibus non est disputandum.
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 8 October 2009 20:43 (4 months ago) Permalink
I'm glad they've decided to embrace their inner Haircut 100 and busted out the marimba.
― fist and shout (herb albert), Thursday, 8 October 2009 20:49 (4 months ago) Permalink
seriously, I've always felt like "Love Plus One" is surely the biggest historical precedent for them in general
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Thursday, 8 October 2009 21:07 (4 months ago) Permalink
i can't help but think that they are explicitly trolling with these lyrics
― autogoon delight (J0rdan S.), Monday, October 5, 2009 5:54 PM (3 days ago)
this is a great way of putting it, and i think/hope it may even be more true than "self-parody"
― jackie off the chain (k3vin k.), Thursday, 8 October 2009 21:09 (4 months ago) Permalink
so lame how a band can get dismissed for being too upper class but none ever is for being too low class. no THAT is a virtue.
― hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 8 October 2009 21:33 (4 months ago) Permalink
Yeah. Honestly, no matter what they did they were going to get the same furor over no big deal as the s/t did, so the ballsy (and really only) thing to do is to go even MORE OTT with class signifiers and Aranciata.
I mean...not that the simile scans much beyond that, but it's sort of the Fall Out Boy post-Cork Tree thing, innit? Make us poster boys for yr scene but we are not making an acceptance speech, as long as the room keeps singing. etc. Whatever People Say I Am, That's Exactly What I Am x1000000. SO THERE..
― Oy!J da Jewman (Alex in Montreal), Thursday, 8 October 2009 21:33 (4 months ago) Permalink
xp, clearly.
― Oy!J da Jewman (Alex in Montreal), Thursday, 8 October 2009 21:34 (4 months ago) Permalink
this is very likable
― cutty, Thursday, 8 October 2009 21:47 (4 months ago) Permalink
breezy
xxxp
afrofuturist philosopher (The Reverend) wrote this on thread Whatcha listening to in 2008? on board I Love Music on Nov 21, 2008
Vampire Weekend are excellent trolls. I'm sure they are very amused as they play up their priveledged status, play oblivious, and watch certain folks sputter themselves silly. Pretty good band, too.
― hood acumen (The Reverend), Thursday, 8 October 2009 22:04 (4 months ago) Permalink
yeah otm
― there's a blap for that (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 8 October 2009 22:07 (4 months ago) Permalink
I'm not sure this is true. I imagine that a lot of people dislike certain rap acts or Southern rock acts because, for instance, they create an image for themselves that's too violent, misogynist, trashy, glib, or any other set of qualities the listener considers "low class."
I don't think it's surprising or objectionable that people form opinions based on the image an act creates for itself. FWIW, my problem with Vampire Weekend is (a) there's a cod-rock quality to their music that I've never liked and (b) I think their lyrics are sometimes embarassingly silly (not always, but certainly with this new song). And yeah, Vampire Weekend's irony-free "upper-class" image grates on me.
I totally get why people like them, tho. As I said, I've got their first disc, and I'll probably get their new disc.
― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 9 October 2009 01:52 (4 months ago) Permalink
ehh i mean be careful not to conflate like actual offensive content with like, dudes who wear polo. also, i think there's nothing irony-free abt their image.
― don't blame pitchfork, blame america (call all destroyer), Friday, 9 October 2009 01:57 (4 months ago) Permalink
Oh, I'm not trying to equate violence/polo-shirt wearing.
Maybe I'm missing VW's irony.
― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 9 October 2009 01:59 (4 months ago) Permalink
oh there's DEF ironic distance there
― it takes a nation of 51 to hold us back (J0rdan S.), Friday, 9 October 2009 02:00 (4 months ago) Permalink
Maybe I should re-approach their debut album.
― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 9 October 2009 02:00 (4 months ago) Permalink
i think it's pretty obvious that playing around with people
― it takes a nation of 51 to hold us back (J0rdan S.), Friday, 9 October 2009 02:01 (4 months ago) Permalink
yeah i mean i dont necessarily know how to describe but it's there--i think a lot of it is how detached and observational most of the lyrics are.
― don't blame pitchfork, blame america (call all destroyer), Friday, 9 October 2009 02:02 (4 months ago) Permalink
from the slate thing
J.W.: I was corresponding over e-mail with Ezra recently (I've known these guys a bit since they were undergrads), and he pointed out that it's very infrequently mentioned in pieces that catalog the band's penchant for deck shoes, Cape Cod shout-outs, etc., that the chief songwriters in the group—Ezra and Rostam Batmanglij—are of Jewish and Persian descent, respectively. Gatecrashers at the blueblood boating party. He wasn't disavowing or trying to cred up the band's Ivy League provenance so much as saying what you're saying: there's distance between the band and the world it narrates. I think that distance—ironic, critical—becomes apparent on the new album in subtle but important ways, if not on this song particularly.
― it takes a nation of 51 to hold us back (J0rdan S.), Friday, 9 October 2009 02:03 (4 months ago) Permalink
"Playing around," yes. But not much irony dripping from them toward their "upper-crust" image, either.
― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 9 October 2009 02:04 (4 months ago) Permalink
i think there's also irony in the fact that the upper-class signifiers they use are completely played out--like, anyone can buy and wear (cheap) deck shoes and even i was able to swing a week on the cape last summer
― don't blame pitchfork, blame america (call all destroyer), Friday, 9 October 2009 02:09 (4 months ago) Permalink
Do you think they intend that part of their image to be understood as ironic?
― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 9 October 2009 02:10 (4 months ago) Permalink
― hood acumen (The Reverend), Thursday, October 8, 2009 10:04 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
yeah right. whatever makes you feel better
― iago g., Friday, 9 October 2009 02:12 (4 months ago) Permalink
too violent, misogynist, trashy, glib
if only these traits were confined to a single class. yes i get it that it's about the listener's perception. Perhaps I should've used "working class" instead of "low class." Was Bruce Springsteen ever ever slammed for being too working class?
I don't think it's surprising or objectionable that people form opinions based on the image an act creates for itself.
It's just lame! Consider that an objection. Seems so high schoolish. "This band isn't cool enough and if I say I enjoy their music than I'm not cool either." It's 2009 and I guess I assumed people have moved past that Punk sort of mindset.
― hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Friday, 9 October 2009 02:14 (4 months ago) Permalink
whatever makes you feel better
see, why the fuck would that make him feel better? why do you think he needs to make himself feel better about liking their music?
― hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Friday, 9 October 2009 02:15 (4 months ago) Permalink
― iago g., Thursday, October 8, 2009 9:12 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
you really don't think that this band is playing it up to bait people with a line like "i spilled kefir on your keffiyah"
― it takes a nation of 51 to hold us back (J0rdan S.), Friday, 9 October 2009 02:17 (4 months ago) Permalink
i think it's seriously underestimating the mindset of lots of college bands & college kids to think that they couldn't be playing people for kicks. not every band is the arcade fire or kings of leon WALK THE WALK AND TALK THE TALK *serious promo photo*
― it takes a nation of 51 to hold us back (J0rdan S.), Friday, 9 October 2009 02:18 (4 months ago) Permalink
daniel yeah i definitely do--from what i've read the one thing they are not is stupid and while their choice of clothes and signifiers may be informed first by their backgrounds i have no doubt they are very aware of how their self-presentation contrasts with other bands.
― don't blame pitchfork, blame america (call all destroyer), Friday, 9 October 2009 02:18 (4 months ago) Permalink
I've read an interview with them. They're definitely smart people, I'll grant you that.
― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 9 October 2009 02:20 (4 months ago) Permalink
like if it was ever in doubt, they just spent two years reading about the way they look & what they sing about and the first single they drop from their new album rhymes "horchata" with "balaclava"
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