St. Vincent - a.k.a. Annie Clark;

She should call her band The Grenadines.

That "diminutive minx" post is really something.

Is Christoff Squirrel Police?

do yourself a favor and get to one of her shows.
i like the album, but it was nothing compared to the live show.
it was one of those ones that makes you go back to and like the recordings infinitely more.

oh, & her guitar is the sex.

lol @ diminutive minx & guitar is the sex. this thread is weird.

anyway, im enjoying the new album

new album better than debut album

the exact kind of album which is know is good but it's just not my cup of tea

SFJ in the New Yorker luvs him some St. Vincent with blog and notebook posts

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/sashafrerejones/2009/05/annie-clark.html

xtc influence ...hmmm, could be good

this record really is pretty darn good

was v surprised to see her on letterman

actually, letterman is fairly consistent when it comes to booking good musical guests.

kinda surprised by this record.i like 'the party' a whole lot.

there's something about her style that seems not to make big waves or grab loads of attention, but everything she does is terrific, and it's nice to see that she seems to have this gradual accretion of people who realize that. just slowly, steadily getting bigger and better.

isn't it odd she hasn't made it bigger though? first of the sufjan connection (or is this a bad thing now?) plus the hot minx thing seems like decent enough premises.

the letterman performance was really good yes.

I don't know -- I can actually see how, when people read descriptions of her records, they might not find a hook that's really pressing or motivating. The Sufjan connection is probably a negative, in that sense: it's possible that people think, you know, "singer-songwriter," "nice arrangements," "Sufjan side player," umm, let's just say it's easy to imagine those things adding up to a common variety of run-of-the-mill record nobody rushes out to buy. It's tough when your hook is that you're just really good at what you're doing, because people sort of have to take someone's word on that.

I think what tends to really prove it with her is live stuff, and to be honest she's one of few acts going where there are web videos of her performances I will actually go back to and watch again, periodically, just because she's that good -- the Pitchfork.tv "Cemetery Gates" thing with her is superb and (I think) better than the album, with a lot more breathing room; and the way she used to do "Paris Is Burning" solo is just terrific to watch. She covered "I Dig a Pony" for that Takeaway Show series, or something, and that one gets me. There's something about her performing that's really special and pretty far beyond what she gets on record, in my opinion.

actually, letterman is fairly consistent when it comes to booking good musical guests.

haha after a week with multiple dave matthews performances she was a major breath of fresh air

I should probably give this more time, but every time I check her out I start thinking about Miranda July's "Me and You and Everyone We Know" and I get a little sick and have to turn it off.

eep. i hate that movie.

i almost saw her open for another act two years ago, but based on the sufjan connection GF and i gave her a pass. maybe we shouldn't've?

i love her and hate sufjan fwiw

AC played guitar for me on a tour a few years back and I can say with no doubt she is one of the most talented things going. So smart+wild soul. Killer player. Killer lady.

i like this Actor LP a lot on 1st listen. reminds me of the first Bird And The Bee LP. not heard her earlier stuff yet tho. and i think i hate sufjan so...

I just got into Actor this week too. I think I must have been confusing her first album with something else I heard at the time, something more floaty and folky and whatever. I went back after discovering how much I liked Actor and ended up liking Marry Me too.

And now I'm mad because I spent two years not listening to the first album because I confused it with something lame.

here's that letterman performance ftr - you still don't get anything this brilliantly weird on the jonathan ross show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zVlr-ynnAI

I like this loads.

Yes, I am playing Last.fm/Spotify bingo but it's leading me to lots of nice things. One of those spiderweb connection things that occasionally actually works.

i like it

who was/is bear bear bear?

castanets

Awesome guitar sound on track 7.

So my DIS-contributing friend told me about this record. And how it's like the best thing released all year.

On first listen, it's not far off. Brilliant stuff.

there are some records i just feel too protective of to want to allow other people to listen to

this is kinda one of them

(He actually linked me Southall's blog, which really did convince me to give this a go, so chalk another one off, Nick!)

this does feel like some amazing genre-transcending secret

So she's more than just a female version of that bearded American indie stuff beloved on National Public Radio? I've only done quick listens online so far.

Yeah, whatever you think it sounds like based on that description, you're about 83% wrong.

yeah, that's about as far removed from what she actually sounds like as you could possibly get without describing, like digital hardcore or something

I had listened to her music and thought 'meh', then I saw her live and it was brilliant, then I've returned to the recordings and I'm 'meh' again. I guess I can keep trying.

i am reminded slightly of late-period scott walker

'black rainbow' through 'laughing with a mouth of blood' and then 'marrow' is, like, incredible

every time i hear 'Save Me From What I Want' i want it to carry on into LFO's 'Loch Ness'

Ha, this is exactly what I meant way upthread -- most of the terms you'd use to describe her music really do risk making her sound like "bearded American indie stuff beloved on National Public Radio." And to be honest with you, I would actually not argue that she's totally categorically distinct from that stuff. I really don't think she's that far away, unfashionable thought that might sound to some people. The difference is mostly just that she's a billion times more interesting and better at it than most. Artier, more graceful, more musical, better with mood, more imaginative, etc.

^^ One benefit of this is that anytime someone who likes popular indie along those lines asks you for a recommendation, St. Vincent is something good and interesting but exactly in the right vicinity for them to like. I do wish her records sounded as good as she does live, though.

There's a lot to be said for doing something a billion times more interestingly and effectively than most! God, this is good stuff. This is what is meant by the word 'realised' in reference to albums. Also, 'uncategorisable'. Add 'The Neighbors' and possibly 'The Strangers' to my list of holy shit this is fucking amazing

This is indeed the sort of album which should appeal to a fairly wide market of at least slightly committed sonic enthusiasts. A recommendation as likely to work on me as on someone whose taste rarely gets more leftfield than Portishead, or someone who has completely renounced mainstream pop for Steely Dan or whatever.

I continue to be baffled by the love for this one, I still vastly prefer her debut to this one. I keep returning to it in the hopes of discovering what everyone else seems to be hearing in it but, nope, still just decent sounding to me.

Ha, this is exactly what I meant way upthread -- most of the terms you'd use to describe her music really do risk making her sound like "bearded American indie stuff beloved on National Public Radio." And to be honest with you, I would actually not argue that she's totally categorically distinct from that stuff. I really don't think she's that far away, unfashionable thought that might sound to some people. The difference is mostly just that she's a billion times more interesting and better at it than most. Artier, more graceful, more musical, better with mood, more imaginative, etc.

I'm sure most would say I'm way off base, but I hear a lot of Kate Bush in St. Vincent (at least in the lead single from the new album).

The "Paint a black hole blacker" bits in "The Stranger" seem like an obvious Bushism.

I recently caught her performing on Austin City Limits and it was beautiful. The music had a very slow weight that reminded me of many things, L'Altra maybe. I listened to the album again and was mostly bored. Maybe her next album will caputre the magic of her live performances. Even her vocals are the album aren't as beautiful as they are live.

If she's that much better live than on record, I need to see her live badly, because her records are awesome. Prefer the new one to the debut, but only got the debut on Saturday. Seems a little tamer.

I would say that her records are v v compressed compared to live -- this can be true of a great many records v. live situations

i don't hear anything beardy NPR dude about her music at all except that occasionally there are maybe hints of old timeyness to it - but it's much more urban (as opposed to rural, beardy, backwoodsy) sounding than that. glimpses of 1920s glamour rather than that old tyme music hall thing. she is, at her best, totally uncategorisable in the same way that classic old skool 4ad was: haunting, evocative, otherworldly and yet visceral and teeth and bones and blood and flesh rather than filmy ghosts

kate bush comparisons are so o_0 wtf becoz yes, all otherworldly gurl singer-songwriter auteurs must be cut from the same cloth and that is the ETHEREAL staitjacket oh yessss

I would say that her records are v v compressed compared to live

makes sense, you can hear it on the 'Marrow' intro where her "reach the parts that need oilin and fixin" line is a bit too low, quiet and lost in the choral haze.

closest comparison i hear is suzanne vega but honestly i tend to think that a lot for female singers with flatter, less emotive voices and avante-garde leanings

kate bush comparisons are so o_0 wtf becoz yes, all otherworldly gurl singer-songwriter auteurs must be cut from the same cloth and that is the ETHEREAL staitjacket oh yessss

No, it's not that. What Paul in Santa Cruz heard is the best example of what I heard: "The "Paint a black hole blacker" bits in "The Stranger" seem like an obvious Bushism."

Actually, I don't think I've heard another artist that I've thought sounds like Kate Bush.

(I should say that it's the way that portion of the song is arranged and sounds and maybe St. Vincent's delivery -- not the lyrics themselves -- that triggered the comparison for me)

i guess you could say some kate comparisons are more valid than others...

it just seems like such a lazy bad "female, a bit mad, slightly technological" reference point that it's come to be meaningless

Who else is supposed to sound like Kate Bush?

come on, i've heard it used to describe everyone from florence & the machine to voice of the sodding beehive

(anyway i don't actually care about this enough to argue - if it makes more people come around to st.vincent then fine use whatever terminology you want)

Who else is supposed to sound like Kate Bush?

Bat for Lashes, Florence and the Machine, a couple of songs w/female vocals on the last M83 album (e.g., "Up").

Patrick Wolf sounds like Kate Bush occasionally, and very deliberately. Also dresses like her from time to time too. He has a penis.

But yeah, I was saying to Em the other day, I don't know how I'd describe St. Vincent. At all.

Who else is supposed to sound like Kate Bush?

Blue Roses

one sad note - the album is solid gold awesome super brilliant for 7 tracks, but then loses momentum in the final stretch...'just the same but brand new' is really good, but 'the bed' and 'the party' slightly sabotage the flow

sheer martial panic of the slightly 'lonesome tears'-esque ending of 'black rainbow' into the similarly rising but this time utterly sweet rising motif of 'laughing...' = incredible feat of sequencing

erm delete the second 'rising'

The Party has such beautiful lyrics though, Louis.

Especially when she stops singing words.

i realise i'm pretty late to this, but having discovered this through the ilx albums poll a couple of months ago, i can safely say it's the most played thing i;ve had in the house this year... jesus is it already mid-April? I'll be 60 before I know it.

Annie has certain co-lineage w/ Sufjan; what mighst bequeathest if thee parturitate? Immediate immaculate and blinding white-hot winged ascension?

Tonight's Austin City Limits (http://video.pbs.org/video/1697650631/) demonstrates an axe-maven extraordinaire with, yes, the red lips and white skin of the aforementioned "minx" entrenched. It's all true; and i love her for it.

God save St. V!

the Sufjanphonic Squee

i want to eye fuck annie clark while she makes fuzzy noises with her electric guitar

Well it seems you've come to the right pl

Out of everything I discovered through last year's albums poll, "Actor" is the album that I come back to time and again. Absolutely amazing. Had it on constant rotation for 12 months and I still come back for more.

(realises he posted something similar only a few months back).

Set me on fire.

Is there a new album coming soon? Please!

holy shit shes awesome

Really excited for a new album from her, but I'm sure I'm the only person on ILM that thought the last one was a minor disappointment. It seemed to be universally loved, but I wasn't as excited by it as I was by her debut.

The last one wasn't a disappoint, but it wasn't nearly as entrancing as Marry Me.

that big black cover, oh yeah.

i want to eyefuck her while she makes fuzzy noises with her pedals

So great.

Wow. Yeah. "eyefucking". Great.

And you guys have a problem with how *I* talk about, say, Patrick Wolf on this board?

Wow. Yeah. "eyefucking". Great.

And you guys have a problem with how *I* talk about, say, Patrick Wolf on this board?

― Karen D. Tregaskin, Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:25 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark

I have absolutely no problem with how you talk about Patrick Wolf, so long as you agree that he's mind-blowingly pretty and totally fuckworthy.

But, yeah, while Annie Clark is v. attractive, the proper focus should totally be on the fact that she is a total musical genius.

I'd assumed DL was going "great!" at the cover rather than the weirdo posting above him.

I should probably go back to the last album, I liked it but it never quite resonated with me.

after seeing this thread i relistened to the last one again. i loved it before, still loving it.

Aw, Alex, I've come around on Patrick Wolf, but this isn't the thread for that.

I've just realised I've never actually listened to Marry Me. Which is completely remiss considering how much I loved Actor.

So it's like I get a brand new album now instead of having to wait for one!

To be fair Karen she does have some very large eyeballs

Haha! Oh I'm so looking forward to this. Why did I never check marry me?!?!

New album Sept 13. Stoked.

http://www.4ad.com/news/13/7/2011/stvincentunveilsstrangemercyartworkandtracklisting

Holy moley, her song Surgeon is absolutely dynamite!!

It's really good. Hated that high pitched ending though.

listening to actor atm

Quick trainspotting question for the ILX brane:

The descending vocal part in the intro of this new song, "Surgeon?" It's referencing a big string melody from some kind of soundtrack, something John Barry-ish, or maybe 60s sci-fi -- something I remember mostly because it was prominently sampled as the breakdown of a rave/hardcore track at some point. It's sort of bugging me; anyone recognize those first two lines?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgFtQPgHyek

You Only Live Twice?

Ah, thanks! Thinking it was a score for something sent me barking up all the wrong trees.

Or at least the "score" part of the trees instead of the "title theme" part

it's from You Only Live Twice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDitUVMMzE0

doh too slow

dope song, love the bassline

ha, i came here to ask the question nabisco just asked. it's been bugging me for the last week.

I would absolutely love this song if it wasn't for the lyric repetition part at the end of each verse phrase. Feels so unnecessary to me for it to happen eevvvvrryy time like that

That new song is incredibe, best thing I've heard all year. Loved both her albums I'm now really excited about the new one.

Actor was a weird album for me - I could tell it was good and not unpleasant to listen to but for some reason I could never really engage with it. Listening to Surgeon now and it's gorgeous... not sure about the prog workout at the end though.

http://pitchfork.com/news/43603-video-st-vincent-cruel/

Another really great song from the new album. The video is really good too, very creepy.

I think I might get quite militant about championing this new album. Absolutely wonderful. Everything I liked about the last one, only moreso.

Love the new album so much. It's a really odd record but just stunning in every way.

Streaming on NPR right now. There is sounding really good so far, some really kinda wtf moments too. On first listen I'm liking this more than Actor (which, I know I'm alone on, but I thought it was a minor step down from the debut).

yo thanks 4 the heads up, think i'll check out at least some of it later

There's like several songs with these weird-ass moments with like spacey-synth and guitars that wouldn't have sounded out of place on that Destroyer album.

those are the best bits.

LOVE this

http://pitchfork.com/features/interviews/8661-st-vincent/

Yeah, this album is great. I've not heard her other albums before either, so I feel like I just opened a whole box of goodies to discover.

can't wait to hear this... gonna wait till i can buy it properly though.

This is definitely one of the best records of the year.

Five tracks in and it's breaking my heart to hear such a lovely voice being wasted in the service of such useless deliberate indie shambolism. That enormous fuzzy bass noise she uses on everything is horrible.

Too many annoying Fiery Furnaces style "ooh look at me" tangents as well.

Difference here is that Fiery Furnaces often forget the song and never come back to it, where St. Vincent always does.

Also, what the hell does "useless deliberate indie shambolism" mean?

Production and arrangement-wise it sounds like a carefully studied mess.

i like the progginess

i find it hard to hear anything she's produced as messy: if anything it's all fussy/neat/antiseptic (choose one)

it seems inevitable-in-retrospect that she'd get into analogue synth (n.b. this is not a complaint)

on one listen the songs struck me more as More Competent Songs In Annie Clark Idiom than as anything great or surprising, though one assumes that'll become more nuanced once i've heard it a little more. but the first time i listened to her seriously was listening to 'actor' a lot a few months ago, so it's a little too close, maybe.

"Strange Mercy" itself is such a fantastic song. I find that the fuzz and squelch - especially when married with how simple and elegant the melodies and songwriting are - is one of my favorite things about her overall sound.

Five tracks in and it's breaking my heart to hear such a lovely voice being wasted in the service of such useless deliberate indie shambolism. That enormous fuzzy bass noise she uses on everything is horrible.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, September 6, 2011 12:12 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Too many annoying Fiery Furnaces style "ooh look at me" tangents as well.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, September 6, 2011 12:15 PM (1 week ago)

Production and arrangement-wise it sounds like a carefully studied mess.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, September 6, 2011 12:29 PM (1 week ago)

on board w/ Matt DC, i played this a couple days back & can't say it really grabbed me at all.

9.0

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/15813-strange-mercy/

I don't hear shambolic here at all.

I'm listening to Chloe In The Afternoon again and the production and the arrangement is just horrible, that guitar line and those drums just trampling across everything only just in time with everything. It's either been arranged by someone completely inept or, more likely, she's made a deliberate decision to reframe the song with such jarring elements. And I'm totally down with that being her aesthetic decision and I usually like it when people do that but really the results just sound like shit here.

that guitar line and those drums just trampling across everything only just in time with everything

matt dc makes unconscious effort to make this sound more awesome than i will probably finally think it is

Unfortunately it's neither a good guitar line nor good drums.

the final song on this album is so beautiful

i'm kind of confused by what definition of 'in time' we're using that this incredibly sequenced-sounding and somewhat metronomic drum beat could possibly be 'only just in time' with the incredible sequenced-sounding rest of the track

a 'friend' of mine wrote a 'review' of the radiohead 'album' 'the king of limbs' on his 'blog' (i wasn't sure where i wanted my sarcastic air quotes in that sentence so i just went with all the options) where he was like OH MY GOD THAT PHIL SELWAY IS SUCH A MACHINE HOW DOES HE PLAY IN ALL THESE DIFFERENT WAYS ALL THE TIME ON ALL THESE TRACKS HE'S INHUMAN HE SOUNDS ALMOST PROGRAMMED and it's like c'mon. c'mon dude. think about it

also: incredibly, again, not incredible, oops

I know it's a drum machine ffs. It's that it sounds sloppy and only-just-in-time when paired with the guitar line. Pretty sure the effect is intentional.

i'm worried about listening to this album. I thought Actor was one of the best and most persistently enjoyable records of recent times, and I really hope this doesn't fuck things up.

I've refrained from commenting so far becuase the CD's not arrived yet and I've only listened to a downloaded version a couple of times on the iPhone while walking around town, but there's nothing to worry about. I'm not sure it's as good as Actor (although that took a long time to really worm its way into my affections), but even so, I'm confused by Matt's dislike of the opening track and other stated issues.

I don't think it is a drum machine. There's a drummer credited on the album and a lot of the parts sound 'human', it's just that they've been processed to sound electronic and quantised to get that robotic quality. I really like that approach - it's a smart way of combining electronic sounds with 'live' playing, and it complements her use of synth bass and weird compressed guitar fuzz.
Chloe is a bold opener, a development of the jarring rhythms of Marrow. Not the most immediate of tracks, but fantastic once it gets under your skin. At first I felt the album wasn't as good as Actor, but it's really sunk in now. It's just different, with more of a soul and r 'n b influence.

Another example of what I'm talking about is the drum beat on Strange Mercy, where one drum comes in a fraction late on the third beat of the bar. It's obviously a conscious decision, and if it is a drum machine then it's actually been programmed like that. There's a sort of studied sloppiness that you hear a fair bit in American indie (Animal Collective, Dirty Projectors etc) that always annoys me, partly because I always imagine the artists think they're being terribly clever when they do it.

Like, the rest of Strange Mercy is beautiful and floaty and feels like it needs a lot more room to breathe. I understand straightjacketing it in a robotic beat but being so deliberately messy feels like it just goes against the grain of the song for no apparent reason. I'm all for sloppiness in music when it makes everything feel spontaneous but this is the exact opposite.

I listened to this again and it's so frustrating because it's a great voice and a collection of good-to-great songs with a load of irritating production quirks getting in the way. The best songs here - Cruel, Champagne Year, the first 2/3rds of Surgeon, avoid that.

I really like that approach - it's a smart way of combining electronic sounds with 'live' playing, and it complements her use of synth bass and weird compressed guitar fuzz.

Hah, this is the bit I hate. See also the lumpy "I, I, I..." passage that leads up to the chorus of Cheerleader.

I can see how it might seem lumpy, but I like the jarring bits. They rub up against the smoothness. I like going against the grain of the song. Doesn't always work, granted, but with St Vincent it keeps things interesting. I don't think of DP or SV as studiedly sloppy though. SV is a fan of J Dilla, who is famous for his use of unquantised beats to add a certain 'liveness' or looseness to proceedings, and there's a similar impulse here. What's wrong with placing a beat a fraction late? Real musicians do that all the time, so why can't machines?

Good drummers don't intentionally come in that far late though. And I don't see why you'd want to do that to a beat that's otherwise incredibly stiff and rigid next to the rest of the song, unless you were trying to be intentionally jarring.

Anyway, I've made my point, I'll shut up now.

I like that kind of stuff on st vincent records -- and agree w/sentiment above that they "keep it interesting" (maybe as much for her as us). Love the "I, I, I" part too. The only thing that really *bothers* me about the record is the unfortunate sequencing of Cheerleader to Surgeon, with the latter beginning in the same key and the same *note* as the "I, I, I" from the former. pet peeve, I guess

But it's encouraging that she makes music which might otherwise be a really easy fit for a hell of a lot of people...but retains little idiosyncratic bits that keep it from becoming that. If i said such things, I'd say "you go girl!" but thank goodness I don't.

she did go to berklee

totally feeling the unquantized beats and blending of live/cut-up/programmed drums, of course. i think i have to get this record.

it's so frustrating because it's a great voice and a collection of good-to-great songs with a load of irritating production quirks getting in the the way

There's no shortage of consensual classics that initially elicited this sort of response. I don't know just how I feel about Surgeon yet, bits are perilously close to sucumbing to the Bjork disease of mannerism and meandering melody banishing pop hooks. But the production quirks are just another decades indie music zeitgeist.

LOL start to her interview at The AV Club: http://www.avclub.com/articles/st-vincent,61763/

The A.V. Club: Sorry, I dialed in a little early, so I eavesdropped on the tail-end of your last interview. Sounded like that got a little awkward.

Annie Clark: Oh, well, the “gender question.” Yeah. The funny thing for me about it is, it’s always such a non-question. The question is—well, there is no question. The statement is, “You’re a woman.”

AVC: So other than being a woman, how are you?

A lot of her stuff, from the first album and second, at least - I haven't heard the new one yet - reminds of so much of late '70s/early '80s Bowie, where the studio is used to give the music this processed, almost robotic feel, especially the drums, which can sound rigid and mechanical until there's a really nutty fill or some other organic intrusion St. Vincent seems to tread that same illusory antiseptic line, sort of accenting the humanness, for lack of a better term, in the midst of all the precision and hyper-arrangement.

Sorry for the grammar. I did that on purpose so that you know this post was written by a human.

I've given this a quick listen, and so far I say Classic!!

No one I know of sounds anything like Annie Clark. She finds this line between harmony and discord - pretty melodies that threaten to tumble into chaos. Hair-raising pop songs dented and bruised by potholes and sheer cliff drops. But Annie always sounds so defiant, brittlely so, like someone who's had enough of tumbling and is going to stand up on her own two feet no matter what.

As for the snare on Strange Mercy, I hear it, and yeah it's deliberate - but it wouldn't be as interesting a track without it. I love it. Her habit of making you anticipate what will happen next, and then doing something different to what you expect (like that ever-so-slightly late snare). You're forced to play this kind of mental three-legged-race with her. And yeah, if you let it jar you, it will. Not everyone likes or wants to feel "challenged" (for want of a better word) by music. I find Fiery Furnaces incredibly frustrating to listen to most of the time as well. But somehow St. Vincent's approach sounds thought-through, pre-mediated, reasoned - her fractured, imperfect internal logic displaying the fragility and determination in her songs. FF often sound like they're just writing tracks bar-by-bar, throwing in random key and tempo changes just for the sake of it. Chances are, on relistening to these tracks in a couple of months' time these'll sound quite natural and not at all jarring.

Cruel is my favourite so far - like a Gilbert and Sullivan production covered by Electrelane in Blondie pastiche mode.

The way she sings 'cruel' but it sounds like 'cry' - don't know I that's intentional. In my mind I always think of the cover of Actor and that photo kind of sums up her music perfectly - pretty in an uncanny valley way; she has the look of someone recovering from a domestic argument or some similar hyper-emotional experience.

Im not hearing the 'guitar virtuosity'. She's not doing anything a million metalhead teenagers couldn't do. Not that guitar virtuosity is everything, but they keep hyping her 'shredding'. I mean, she's a good songwriter and everything, that should be enough.

A teenage metalhead could probably technically play the parts, but I doubt he'd come up with them, unless they were big fans of Robert Fripp and the Zvex Fuzz Factory. She's not really about super fast shredding, although I'm sure she's capable of that. She's a really inventive player, and she can certainly kill it live.

Listened again on the way into work this morning. It didn't quite have the same effect on me as last night, but then that might all be a question of context - some things just sound better at night on your home system than on headphones on a busy train. I don't think it's quite beating out Actor yet, but certain moments are splendid and as a whole I've no complaints.

LIVIN IN FEAR IN THE YEAR OF THE TIGER

Are people still digging this? It kind of faded quickly for me, although I think "Cruel" is one of the best songs this year.

I'm feeling this as a slowly-unfurling grower, much like Actor, which I enjoyed more and more as I got to know it.

I'm still playing this a lot, a strong contender for album of the year even though a lot of times I skip the first track.

NPR is streaming her DC show tonight: http://www.npr.org/2011/10/28/141801564/live-tuesday-st-vincent-in-concert?ps=mh_frhdl1

Covering the Pop Group - She is Beyond Good and Evil on Kimmel

Cru-u-uelllll....

She's very striking in person. Amazingly vivid eyes. And she can fucking play. Best live guitar player I've seen in ages, if not ever.

does it come through on the records in places i'm missing? i like her albums a lot, but i'm not hearing the amazing guitar solo parts i expect, given what i hear about her virtuosity.

I think the live show I saw a few weeks back was pretty amazing, precisely because of the guitar playing. I think on record it's all smoothed out a bit.

definitely. love her live but i can mostly take or leave the records.

^ OTM

xpost Sometimes it's hard to hear her guitar playing on the record because, like Fripp or Belew or whomever, it doesn't always sound like a guitar. But live you get to see what she's up to.

I've had a lot of trouble with this record, even as a fan, because "Cruel" is such a good song but it comes so early in a relatively difficult album. I always turn it off (or tune it out) after "Cruel," even though I know it's good.

http://sickmouthy.com/2011/11/13/some-thoughts-on-st-vincent-and-women-in-music/

Funny thing No.1:

My six year old son asked me this morning whether Strange Mercy was Kate Bush's new album.

Funny thing No.2:

Before she came on stage the other night they were playing Here Comes the Warm Jets and as Baby's on Fire came on it suddenly dawned on me how alike to Fripp Annie Clarke's guitar playing is.

Was that before or after my post four inches above here? ;)

They played Baby's On Fire after house lights came up on Friday! Her choice? She is very Fripp.

New vid casts her as a Ron Mueck sculpture:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEY9GJAm8bA

everything she does sounds like prince to me

Her videos are really good at complementing her songs. I think part of the reason I liked Cruel so much was cos of the video.

i've only listened to this new album a few times, but it's clicking a lot more now than it has in the past. i'm hearing tori amos* + fripp.

(*tori amos if her choirgirl hotel era was more interesting and varied and better-produced than it actually was.)

challlllllllops

Incredible, intense London show last night. Thrilling cover of She Is Beyond Good and Evil.

(*tori amos if her choirgirl hotel era was more interesting and varied and better-produced than it actually was.)

nooooooooooooooooooooooo way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

like none at all at all. i only listened to the st vincent album a couple of times but certainly in terms of range it's got nothing on choirgirl - even in terms of arrangements tori's a million times more varied, and that's before you get into the amount of genres FTCH covers.

The 90s Tori stan awakes.

Lex, have you heard the Actor album from 2009? I'd suggest checking it out before you dismiss St Vincent outright. Personally found that album a lot more enjoyable than this recent one.

'tori + fripp' kind of works

lexxx i don't know if i have any interest particularly in trying to talk you into liking st. vincent but i don't think breadth of sound and genre is what her last two records are going for at all?

neither did i - i've tried st vincent and it wasn't for me, i was just taking issue with the tori comparison

i didn't really hear any tori in st vincent tbh

a particular way of deploying their high registers strategically? i think there's a resemblance more on the line of one or two common tricks rather than a similarity in the grand shape of their projects. (which is true of the comparison to robert fripp as well obv)

although i would probably rather hear annie clark cover 'in the court of the crimson king' than i would 'cornflake girl#

i didn't really hear any toriesque bloodnguts viscera in annie clark. or any of the wails in the higher register. idk that st vincent album was so low-key charisma-wise, i didn't like her arrangements or production at all but her personality didn't exactly bust through them like tori's would.

Hmm, bloodnguts viscera is exactly the impression I got from her show last night. I hate the "you have to see x live" argument — obviously you won't want to bother if you're not a fan — but the way she swings between vulnerability and violence is gripping. Not that I'd compare her to Tori myself, but I think she has charisma in spades.

Yeah, I'm surprised at what Lex is saying really, and agree with thomp and DL - this is has a lot of character to it - something very frail yet hugely defiant about her sound and lyrics. That video for Cheerleader, where she's gigantic and tied up as a museum exhibit, tries to break the shackles but crumbles to dust, is a perfect representation of her sound. It's like that moment just before you feel as though you're about to have an emotional breakdown and you're trying to keep it together. "You show up with a black eye/Looking to finish the fight/Paint the black hole blacker" is about as much blood'n'guts viscera as it gets really...

yeh she don't sing it like she means it tho. it's like an exercise in songwriting and by the same token it's not dead-eyed stina style deadpan either.
was so pleased my "strange mercy" was faulty. i couldn't conscionably have it knocking about the house.
she writes a corkin' good refrain but can't link them up or develop them adequately to write a good (let alone great) song which is an awful, crying shame. given "marrow" was pretty much flawless, but she needs a producer who will tell her "no, go back and write it again", rather than fleshing out half-arsed sequenced up demos in a cluttery mush of production. eg "Cruel", "swoon"-part, "riff"-part, connected by "drivel"-part (even the riff needs to go up 3 semitones on the last stroke - it disappoints me that my memory of the song is better than the actual song). "chloe in the afternoon" STORMs in, in a prince style, and to my mind doesn't fall apart through design but through not taking the optimum compositional decisions. and so on, and so on. undeserving of the foisted elevation she receives for lack of anything better being offered. the attempted lionization is wish fulfilment

This is all down to a matter of taste, but I think the whole "structures falling apart" is what makes her sound unique. I do much prefer Actor to Strange Mercy, but it's the ever-so-slightly skewed quality, the uneasiness of her sound that makes it what it is.

I thought immediately of St. Vincent vs. Tori b/c they both have the song "Cruel", with a similar sentiment.
Disgree on the Fripp comparison // splitting hairs // Annie is Adrian Belew, in tone, in performance, even in lyrical bent.
There is a selfish part of me that only wants to hear Annie making music in the vein of her Rapeman/Pop Group covers

problem is it's crap-structures-falling-apart.
the refrains are GRAND, but she doesn't know what to do with them. these songs could be so much better and that is what i find so enormously frustrating.

gawd, tori's "cruel" is so much better it's ridiculous, the production and rhythm are so insane on it

like, MARIMBAS

get back to me when annie clark starts using marimbas and whistles in her songs

correction there - i think it's adequate but oft unrelated structures falling apart craply and not in aid of the music, but for lack of an idea what to do with them otherwise. yegads, anyone would think she is ruins / misha mengelberg / the dead c the way people are vaunting this as some kinda revelation. just so peculiar that someone so obviously a very talented musician should have so many absolutely and completely dud chord progressions & unmemorable bridging parts.

get back to me when annie clark starts using marimbas and whistles in her songs

― lex pretend, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 00:22 (10 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's some pretty narrow criteria for good music TBF. I think the point with Annie Clarke is that she can make her guitar sound like marimbas and whistles.

She's a phenom guitarist trapped in a art pop singer/songwriter that wants to soundtrack movies. The inevitable covers album will be a monster.

saw her last night in oakland, wonderful, even with the bad mushy sound of the fox. major crowd surfing; i'm sure she only weight like 80 pounds but I still wouldn't have wanted to have gotten clocked in the head by her boots. her guitar playing actually reminds me more of adrian belew than fripp, and she has the stage presence of prince.

YES I've been saying Belew for years. Absolutely.

it's funny because i just went back and read an interview with her (av club I think) and he asked her if she'd seen Home of the Brave (Laurie Anderson) and she said no but he drew the same comparison. Glad to know it wasn't my sometimes overly 80's KC-saturated brain making this up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urJZfwaRyFg&feature=share

David Byrne & St. Vincent collaborate for new LP "Love This Giant" out September 10(UK)/11(US) ON 4AD/Todo Mundo

is this the only mention of it on ilx? hm.

hmmm. Single did not wow me.

she has the stage presence of prince

Wow, really? Never seen her live

there's lots of great st. vincent live online - pf linked this one some time back, it's awesome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N66HPoQBChk

saw her live once and was blown away, only thing might annoy you she's not that "true" to the songs' album sound but if you can get past that it's really something special. there's so much dynamics and she is wiiild :-)

Hmm, the times I've seen her she's generally been very formal, except for the guitar freakouts, which seemed kind of ironic counterpoints to her otherwise intentionally stylized/stiff/cold stage demeanor. I mean, it works, but I would not put her on my short list of dynamic, charismatic performers.

Love her covers, though, which is when I usually see her go nuts. Her Pop Group cover was incredible.

I wish I liked Strange Mercy more, i really do but I don't

Hmm, the times I've seen her she's generally been very formal, except for the guitar freakouts, which seemed kind of ironic counterpoints to her otherwise intentionally stylized/stiff/cold stage demeanor. I mean, it works, but I would not put her on my short list of dynamic, charismatic performers.

Love her covers, though, which is when I usually see her go nuts. Her Pop Group cover was incredible.

I'd echo this. Her songs live were very true to the album versions minus some extra-skronky guitar workouts. That being said---excellent live show. She also crowd-surfed during her Pop Group cover...I was impressed.

I thought she was amazing live. Also, and I hate to say it, much more strikingly beautiful than I'd imagined - her eyes were just luminescent and absorbing. And she rocked. Like Robert Fripp.

Haha, I read your post as

I thought she was amazing live. Also, and I hate to say it, much more strikingly beautiful than I'd imagined - her eyes were just like Robert Fripp's.

― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 31 August 2012 16:07 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

someone has never seen Prince

http://www.npr.org/2012/09/02/160262123/first-listen-david-byrne-st-vincent-love-this-giant?sc=fb&cc=fmp

still need to listen to this some more

a frigid creature this one is

I'm loving it.

THere was a piece on them in the Guardian yesterday
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/sep/08/david-byrne-st-vincent?INTCMP=SRCH

"I saw this diminutive minx open for John Vanderslice this past Saturday night"

I definitely wake up when she's singing lead, or better yet, solo. If Byrne's writing or co-writing those songs, good for him, but so far I'm wishing he'd stayed more in the background. "I Used To Watch TV" has some of the old T.Heads engagement, though, and I'll listen some more. Good horns, wish she was playing more audible guitar.

fun detail from the guardian thing is that the prosthetics for the cover are by the guy who did matthew barney's

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_WsJG6wD__Os/SjvqgNBdljI/AAAAAAAABVE/sI_d21bh9fg/s400/Cremaster4.jpg

eh-- my reaction so far to the new album

Sonically, texturally, in terms of energy, ideas, this is great on first exposure. Dunno how the songs will hold up in time but they don't quite seem like the primary focus yet.

What other records use brass in ways comparable to this? There must be some but I can't think of anything off he top of my head.

this is the first thing byrne has done in years that I've liked. probably the first album since his s/t one.

I was expecting it to be not so great, as 1) Melissa said she didn't like it and 2) BRASS. I am semi-allergic to brass but wow, this album was actually all kinds of awesome, I liked it from the first hearing, and it got even better the more I listened to it. The brass arrangements are really quite unusual, not what I was expecting at all, and really quite moreish.

(But mostly it made me dig out a bunch of old Talking Heads records I haven't listened to since I was in high school.)

Do you like St Vincent's other stuff WCC?

Yes.

Personally I loved Actor so much but Strange Mercy kind of grated on me. I'm looking forward to hearing this record though.

st. vincent is a bit lame

you're a bit lame.

I was lukewarm on the album after a couple spins (except for the horn arrangements, it wasn't really grabbing me...though I was working while listening).

However, seeing these Jimmy Fallon live performances really brought things together. Think I might end up digging this as much as the last St. Vincent record (a pop gem), though in a more brainy, less brawny manner. Bummed that the closest this tour is coming to me is Chicago in the middle of the week. Times like this...hate the Midwest.

http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/video/david-byrne-and-st-vincent-the-forest-awakes-91012/1416222/

Byrne's vocal melodies have not won me over yet, but maybe if I give it a few more listens.

She seems better live, judging by a number of fairly recent YouTubes. Drop-dead cool gradually becomes poignant (emerging/undertow desperation of the "Joan Didionesque" persona she's cited), plus hairline fractures in keyboard bridges x guitar skronk. Byrne x horns-wise, so far I prefer Music From The Knee Plays.

What other records use brass in ways comparable to this? There must be some but I can't think of anything off he top of my head.

Seeing the show tonight, but underwhelmed by the album.

Saw the show last night and liked the songs from the album better live. Live they are also doing lots of choreography for each number plus using lights and shadows to keep your interest. Alas, Byrne's stiff movements don't seem that endearing to me, and Annie's wiggling also gets a bit predictable. Her voice sounds great I just wish she would write some (conventional) choruses and hooks. The crowd was mainly there for David Byrne I sensed. It was a really expensive show-- $75 to $125 list for tickets.

Haven't looked for the Strathmore (MD/DC ) setlist online. It will be a slight bit different than this one from NY that I saw but its not that different:

Who
Weekend in the Dust
Strange Overtones
(David Byrne cover)
Lazy
(David Byrne cover)
This Must Be The Place (Naive Melody)
(Talking Heads cover)
I am an Ape
Marrow
(St. Vincent cover)
I Should Watch TV
Ice Age
Like Humans Do
(David Byrne cover)
The One Who Broke Your Heart
Lazarus
Cheerleader
(St. Vincent cover)
Outside of Space and Time
Encore:
Cruel
(St. Vincent cover)
Burning Down The House
(Talking Heads cover)
Encore 2:
The Party
(St. Vincent cover)
Road To Nowhere
(Talking Heads cover)

that looks like an awesome setlist

Aye, I bet that was wicked. Prefer her songs / vocals to his on the record.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35vDF3J_-P8&feature=player_embedded

imo this is quite lovely and the out of focus cameraphone footage rather accentuates it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2AL2xvZO1g

Still getting my head round this. Hate to say it, but Byrne's hokier moments (singing about TV and procreation etc) kind of spoil it a little bit. It's a great pairing though - Annie's moments really do remind me of prime TH-songwriting style. It's roughly 70/30 good/bad though.

if they tour the uk, I'll def be there.

http://sickmouthy.com/2013/03/21/st-vincent-actor-2009/

http://www.music-man.com/instruments/guitars/st-vincent.html

Looks pretty sick

Nice, I was wondering what that was when she played it with Taylor Swift the other night.I don't usually go for Music Man's body shapes (esp. the albert lee. I don't understand how that guitar continues to get produced), but this looks cool.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/watch-taylor-swift-perform-explosive-live-cover-with-beck-st-vincent-20150826

Isn't the Albert Lee what she usually plays?

Yeah, it's really just one of my least favorite guitar shapes.

I like St. Vincent, and I love the original of this, so I really wish that I liked this cover more, but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOzC_q4357c

A new song from Ms. Clark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n48vQgfXygc

Giving me some Actor vibes but . . . more earnest and direct?

really nice

Woah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJb3lTNRtA8

I knew it would be that song before I hit play.

At Sundance next year:

The Nowhere Inn​ / U.S.A. (Director: Bill Benz, Screenwriters: Carrie Brownstein, Annie Clark, Producers: Jett Steiger, Lana Kim, Annie Clark, Carrie Brownstein) ​—​ When St. Vincent sets out to make a documentary about her music, the goal is to both reveal and revel in the unadorned truth behind her on-stage persona. But when she hires a close friend to direct, notions of reality, identity, and authenticity grow increasingly distorted and bizarre. Cast: Annie Clark, Carrie Brownstein. World Premiere

Hmm

Last (x) Movies you are going to Avoid

new single is uhhhhhh

not good

For anyone else that is interested, I think it's this? Maybe I've been out of the game for a while, but she is completely unrecognizable to me, here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUTu65AXrJw

New album, "Daddy's Home"

Also, not to double post, but I get really weird sort of Momus-y vibes from this.

The song writing seems to exist as a pretext for the high concept and visual aesthetic and the sound design. Or is that harsh?

Yeah, this does not get me super excited about the new one, but hard to imagine I won't like some of it considering how much I love the rest of her catalog. I mean, it feels increasingly like leaning into the high concept/visual aesthetic thing is just as big as the new music she's making with each cycle.

The song writing seems to exist as a pretext for the high concept and visual aesthetic and the sound design. Or is that harsh?

maybe but that's been my sense with her stuff for a few cycles now

Prob need to investigate her more, and probably hear her live, but what I've heard just sounds like an 80s prince side project production.

I love her and I'm very excited for this record

extremely blatant bowie/prince homage, misses the mark

could grow on me though. wonder what the rest of the album sounds like

young americans is my least fave classic bowie era

here she comes to clog up the EOYs again

“The song writing seems to exist as a pretext for the high concept and visual aesthetic and the sound design. Or is that harsh?“

Not only is it not harsh its most music these days, with low budget types relegated to Instagram for their visual concepts. Music is just a vessel for individual personality: all artists have been reduced to influencers/content creators

other than the outfit it doesn't sound like young americans, it seems more Lodger-ish to me. But what it mostly reminds me of is Midnight Vultures which is an album I never return to.

tbh I never cared for Lodgers much, lol and I do not like Midnight Vultures either

The Beck comparison is apt, I think they share they same tolerance of the vapid where it aligns with the haircut. But then probably people said that about Bowie, and particularly his plastic soul iteration.

what i did hear of her, she made me think of what prince protege jill jones might have made if she made more albums.

but also kinda over produced. a lot of 80s production touches i dont need to be brought back.

all of this makes me want to check her out properly though.

im a sucker for people with agreeable references that align into something vapid.

the single cover looks like Tina Fey's character from Date Night when she's pretending to be a Russian prostitute

the song itself is all right

"other than the outfit it doesn't sound like young americans, it seems more Lodger-ish to me."

It's a pretty straight 'Fame' pastiche, no?

I like it. Seems shaggier and looser than she usually works.

Concept seems to be veering into US Girls territory.

My FB friends seem to all love it.

I'm 100% on board with it. Let it play on a loop about 15 times earlier, but I still haven't watched the video, which I gather might be a distraction.

also idg all the Bowie name-dropping people are doing. This sounds like Sly Stone and Eurythmics and a smidge of Nikka Costa.

again, that's mainly driven by the aesthetics of the video which look like a slew of videos bowie made in the very late 70's

i think, anyway

and the fact it sounds like Fame.

I've listened to Fame a thousand times. These two songs don't sound like each other.

Fame is a tight guitar driven song. This sloshes around a bit. Actually reminds me of 'All I Wanna Do' by Sheryl Crow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGr6i5Sar5s

...and throw in a word or two that rhyme with "fame".

It sounds like "Fame"

She looks a LOT like a well-known blonde actress in this video, but I can't think of whom. Cathy Moriarty? idk

The first few notes of the bass synth sound like 'Sweet Dreams'. But the lyrics are about what exactly? I suppose they make as much sense as Lou Reed's 'Lady Day'. But the comparison I keep coming back to is Muse:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rf1Sj6EIFE
Lyrics that sound weighty but mean nothing (Bellamy is singing about his guitar yeah right), instrumental twiddlyness, style over substance, appearance over communicating anything.

FB ads are informing that she's offering online classes on prepared guitar techniques these days??

Do you mean the Masterclass course?

i'm not much of a fan of her but this new song is a definite improvement from the last album which was pretty dire

Oh I see that there's a whole Masterclass course on creativity and songwriting. In the ad I saw, she was demonstrating some prepared guitar techniques, e.g. approximating a ring modulator by weaving paper through the strings.

Really don't like anything about the new single. New York and Birth In Reverse weren't the best songs on the last two albums, but they still had me hyped for the release. Hopefully this doesn't represent the new album at all.

I hope it does. I crave this kind of kitchen sink alt funk.

the single cover looks like Tina Fey's character from Date Night when she's pretending to be a Russian prostitute

― Hello Nice FBI Lady (DJP)

The song itself also sounds like it. Top comment on r/indieheads is: “ this has such drunk aunt at a family gathering vibes”.

the single cover looks like Tina Fey's character from Date Night when she's pretending to be a Russian prostitute

― Hello Nice FBI Lady (DJP)

The song itself also sounds like it. Top comment on r/indieheads is: “ this has such drunk aunt at a family gathering vibes”.

Which is considered the best of her work among the ILX hardcore fans? The self-titled album seems to be thought of as some kind of peak elsewhere. I saw a festival warm-up type date in Cambridge toward the end of the last tour (2018) which was pretty great but eleven songs of the then-current album was a bit much.

self titled > actor > marry me > masseduction > ... stuff i don't remember

I think she's so talented, but has become increasingly exhausting. I don't really hear much in the direct way of Prince or Bowie (maybe a little bit of Iggy's "Idiot"), but as far as Beck goes it's very much in that "Midnite Vultures" mode.

Midnite Vultures >>>> Mellow Gold > Odelay > stuff

feel like i should like St V more than i do but oh well

She's obviously an immensely talented guitarist at the very least, but I do not like her production style at all and I can't shake the feeling she's not up to much conceptually either

I agree totally on all three points.

am i the only one getting betty davis vibes from this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf5NUBIcEyU

I don't call myself a hardcore fan, but I have heard all her records except the Byrne collaboration. I'd pick Strange Mercy as the best, though I could see a case being made for any but her debut.

Her lead singles aren't always the best songs on the albums, but this song has a little less of the compressed, squashed synth sound of the last two records, which wasn't always successful.

Strange Mercy is still my favorite

As a non-expert, I agree w those who say she's most compelling as a guitarist, and live: When NPR live-streamed her SXSW around the time of Actor, the very studied approach (they also put up video of rehearsals for the show), of the songwriting, the orchestration the stylized movement, the lights, the hair, the makeup, the costumes, the vocal manner---all worked as a set-up for her gettin' down on the edge of the stage, shredding, for what seemed like quite a while, but not too much---also for instance elsewhere encoring with "Smells Like Teen Spirit"---look around the 'Tube if interested---the whole style-is-content, flash-is-substance, even works pretty well in such instances, I think.

This might expose me as a basic rockist but that video of her covering Big Black's "Kerosene" is still my favorite thing I've seen of hers

I’ve seen her live twice. She’s certainly a better than average guitarist but I also think she has been set up as a kind of standard bearer for Women Who Play Guitar and maybe that’s a burden.

Eh, if anything she makes me think she is simply bored of guitar (see also: Polly Harvey). But guitar or no, Clark clearly, consciously decided she wanted to Do Something Else, and transformed into this whole, affected, performance-art pop ... thing.

I think she's so talented, but has become increasingly exhausting.

She's obviously an immensely talented guitarist at the very least, but I do not like her production style at all and I can't shake the feeling she's not up to much conceptually either

This is pretty much how I feel now. Loved Actor, and I liked Strange Mercy, but sometime around then (can't remember if it was before or after her Byrne collaboration), the red flags started to pop up. I remember one show that was mostly great, but she kept going into these ridiculous long, pre-scripted monologues that kept killing the momentum. I forgot about that after the self-titled album came out - greater than expected and still my favorite. Masseduction was good too but for me it's where things start to go wrong. The thicker, glossier production still worked, but it didn't seem like continuing down that path was going to be a good idea either. Then came the Sleater-Kinney album - not a complete disaster but misguided, and they lost Weiss in the process. It's disappointing, but I hope the new one turns out all right. (I'm not too optimistic based on the single.)

I always had some difficulty squaring the hype about her guitar heroism with what her songs sound like.

The arty stuff gets in the way a bit. The guitar heroism comes out much better live.

^Yes and it’s not necessarily her fault. I think some fans and critics are projecting confused and complicated ideas onto her about how gender relates to virtuosity and guitars.

Xpost

that video of her covering Big Black's "Kerosene" is still my favorite thing I've seen of hers

I like her music across the board but this is my opinion also!

She's putting her guitar through a lot of stuff, iirc, so it might not get recognized as guitar. For example:

In the ad I saw, she was demonstrating some prepared guitar techniques, e.g. approximating a ring modulator by weaving paper through the strings.

But here's a glimpse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vRPmJx8bYs

Here she is running through some riffs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqS5W14crX8

I think what counts as virtuoso guitar has changed a lot in the last few decades.

Hmm. Well, I think she's very creative with her instrument, and can be because she knows it so well, which maybe doesn't count as "virtuoso," per se, but I bet she knows her guitar well enough to play what people *do* typically consider virtuoso. In that clip above, she casually drops in a Steely Dan intro, which, sure, does not necessarily count as virtuoso, but if you can casually do that you know what you're doing, probably.

I think what counts as virtuoso guitar has changed a lot in the last few decades.

I don't like her music or her artistic persona (that whole schtick an album or two ago where she made snarky videos to deflect common interview questions she thought were boring/stupid/beneath her soured me on her pretty much permanently), but the world already has one John Petrucci and doesn't need her to be another.

4m into the first video (which I'm watching second), lol that Noisey guy has never seen artificial harmonics before. The riffs in the 6 riffs video are mostly beginner-level, which is maybe the point of the video; I do think she is capable of harder things than "Aqualung" and gets a lot of interesting sounds, although I'm not really seeing a case yet that she gives Mary Halvorson a run for her money. What I meant, though, was that guitar heroism doesn't seem that central to the appeal of the songs that I hear so it seems odd that people seem to stress it as much as I see them do. (I've seen comparisons to Eddie Van Halen, Thurston Moore, and Tom Verlaine, all of whom foreground instrumental guitar work a lot more ime). I did like Actor well enough btw and I'm glad to see someone doing prepared guitar in pop music.

Nobody’s arguing that she needs to be a poodle shredder. Virtuosity in an art rock context is more like Belew with Talking Heads or Fripp with Bowie. She’s good but she’s not that. And again, she’s not saying she’s a virtuoso, my issue here is with the commentary around her that seems overwrought and pleading to me.

Again, xpost.

Oh yeah I've seen a Belew comparison too which um

snarky videos

(sorry for NME link): https://www.nme.com/news/music/st-vincent-interview-kit-videos-2134085

She is an extremely versatile and creative guitarist but it’s not clear until you watch her play live, imo.

I think it's less that people think she's a virtuoso because the notion of virtuosity has changed, and more people think she's a virtuoso because not that many people know or understand guitar, and there are relatively few younger people famous *for* playing guitar that seeing anyone play a guitar might as well be "virtuoso." But, sure, like Belew she is so clearly into her own thing that there's really not a lot of comparisons to what she's up to, which is one advantage of sounding weird or different.

Can Matt Sweeney play? I have no idea, he's always in bands though.

Anyway, she's a hundred times better than I'll ever be, so virtuoso enough for me! Still find her exhausting, though.

That’s what I’m saying though. The meaning of virtuosity has changed because the average music fan understands guitar less. I’m not even complaining about it really. Except in a sad suburban guitar playing dad way.

Virtuoso FX pedal stomper.

pff, when she plays I pay attention and I want to hear more, idgaf whether it's virtuosic or pedal filtered

TBF to Clark, I never get the feeling something like this could happen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8dZwXnMrRU
(Bill Bailey's U2 bit)

https://townsquare.media/site/838/files/2021/02/stvincent-whosyourdaddy.jpg
A different aesthetic for each album isn't necessarily a dealbreaker - I wouldn't be a Bowie fan if it was - but this looks like it'll be all-style-no-substance to the point of it almost being an ad campaign for bourbon. And yes the elephant in the room is 'Young Americans' but Bowie released that album in the 70s, worked with many of the pre-eminent musicians in that genre, and was genuinely into that music - whereas this feels like copping an aesthetic.

Also that fucking ad copy: the artist who makes you expect the unexpected
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/35/e7/84/35e784330597d07f55accb1702518589.jpg
"No-one makes you expect the unexpected!"

Actually St Vincent's suit fits about as well as those priest robes. What's up with the tailoring on that jacket? Also flares are tight at the top and wide at the bottom. Those trouser look more like something the singer in an early 90s shoegaze band would wear.

If it's an album of glistening guitars perhaps she has gone shoegaze

as I paste this link of her new song into this text box, I have already forgotten what this song sounds like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4cytdNY8Cw

Oh goody, finally an album with lazier lyrical cliches than Lou Reed's 'Rock and Roll Heart'.

At least Lou was actually a drug addict so he could speak with authority on heroin'n'benzos'n'shit. So far this St Vincent album sounds like the musical equivelent of a 'Live Laugh Love' poster in the living room of the straightest person you know.

Doing the whole "lyrics about other musicians who are better than you" thing makes me think maybe St. Vincent would be a fitting frontperson for Nirvana.

Everybody in the youtube comments seems ecstatic about it though, as well as on the popheads and indieheads subreddits. Maybe we're the baddies, idk.

it sounds better than her last album but also totally forgettable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzHpaVBhQKQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MByUaGiR2Z8

Eh for first song on SNL - Pay Your Way in Pain

it was all too period piece schtick without strong enough songs to make it work - St V in her 1970s clothes with her soulful Black background singers. Not bad but not great either.

my wife haaaated it on the same grounds. I was more forgiving, this kind of image-roleplaying stuff no longer seems as impactful as it did in the 70's or 80's when Bowie and others did it, it def. comes across as a gimmick, but it also doesn't bother me that much. but I would have liked the songs to be a little stronger.

The problem I have with image/aesthetic is that if the songs are good then it doesn't matter what the artist is wearing - they could be wearing a potato sack. If the songs are really amazing you're not even going to notice. But if the songs aren't good enough then a deliberate stylised image seems to highlight the deficiencies in the music.
It reminds me of some interview advice I got from a colleague. They said that I should wear a red tie in an interview "so that you stand out and the interviewer remembers you". The colleague meant well but even at the time I thought that if that was the only reason I got hired then it probably meant I wasn't very suitable for the role, and that a better strategy would be to impress in the interview with my suitability for the job.
There were a lot of glam rock era bands who looked the business but whose music wasn't exciting enough. On the other hand there were bands who were really good but looked comically fuck-awful (Slade to the point where the Reeves & Mortimer parody is basically them pretending to be Slade with slightly exaggerated Brummie accents). And there's the whole 'The Decline of Western Civilization Part II: The Metal Years' thing of hair bands spending more time picking out clothes then they did writing songs.
One other thing, if you're going for a particular look then commit to it. St Vincent looks like she's wearing a party shop wig. And it's back to Bowie again but even when he was a teenager pretending to be a Mod he put in more effort.

St Vincent looks like she's wearing a party shop wig.

Yeah, but this is half the point. It's part of the ancient aesthetic strategy of drawing attention to the fact that you're "wearing a costume" / "playing a role" by doing it badly and obviously, on purpose. I think it's cowardly, confusing insincerity with irony and giving the performer a way of distancing themselves from the thing they're attempting, so they've got an out if it fails, but it's very common in super-white indie music.

this is the best thread on ilm

"saint joni ain't no phony / smoking reds where furry sang the blues"

godawful

sorry to add to the pile-on

I'm listening to "The Melting of the Sun" and wondering if this is her take on the Lana Del Rey aesthetic

I just started paying attention to the lyrics and I would like to set my face on fire

still not feeling her music/schtick. then again I haven't really checked her releases. was turned off by her 2014 SNL performance in which she did some stage moves that looked copped from Mick Karn.
second half here: https://vimeo.com/133923846
too cutesy and mannered/studied by half.

then again it doesn't bother me when David Byrne uses weird choreography (so must be the music?)

"I'm listening to "The Melting of the Sun" and wondering if this is her take on the Lana Del Rey aesthetic"

Jack Antanoff

and Virginia O'Brien did 'frozen face' soooo much better

Ok the lyrics are pretty cringe on Melting of the Sun but I really like it musically. Gene Clark No Other vibes

+Gainsbourg Cannabis soundtrack

I just started paying attention to the lyrics and I would like to set my face on fire

― Dana Jel Pey (DJP), Monday, 5 April 2021 14:13 (two hours ago) link

I turned this on in the background and was like "this isn't so bad I don't understand what everyone is...oh my god"

My Marilyn shot her heroin
"Hell," she said, "It's better than abuse"

jesus christ!!

I scrolled down to the next bridge and wish I hadn't

A Bridge Too Far

Can't wait to see how many girls adopt "benzo beauty queen" as a tagline.

pretty good cover, but i miss the organ hook after 'might as well be melting on the sun'

byrne was a clear influence on her adopting all the choreography since she started doing it after their collab album + tour that featured heavy choreography (which was kinda a conceptual dry run for byrne's american utopia tour)

it's just a shame she's not very good at both that & her character stuff, none of it is compelling at all. it doesn't even come across as like, knowingly mediocre as someone suggested but if it did that would probably be even worse.

I do really like her signature guitar, esp the fact they actually did something new and not just as nth generation derivative of a trad model/body style

I haven't listened to this but I'm sure it sucks ass

I watched her SNL performance and immediately thought she was aping cokehead Bowie phase but like it was missing the saxophones or the songwriting and also I kept wondering what the backup singers thought of her music.

Her 2017 album is fantastic imo

I love all of her old stuff and the new first single off the new album. This thread is making me nervous tho.

I liked the 2017 album at the time but I never find myself revisiting it. But she's someone I'm always going to check out; she may just be in a phase that does nothing for me now. I'm sure she'll do something I like a lot again some day.

According to my Facebook feed, St Vincent’s core audience is now “Berklee jazz professors”

her lyrics being as bad they are as on "the melting of the sun" is nothing new though, see "pills", "digital witness", etc.

According to my Facebook feed, St Vincent’s core audience is now “Berklee jazz professors”

Wait, really?

That’s based on the one dude raving about her SNL performance, to be fair

one said she’s a minx this one time.

obv i still can’t get over that thread origin story, everyone else since then is just pantomiming and shadow casting.

Dana Jel Pey (DJP) at 8:29 5 Apr 21

According to my Facebook feed, St Vincent’s core audience is now “Berklee jazz professors

she's definitely been on the guitar magazine radar for a minute

I like the layering of the guitars with the weird bends in the bridge of "Melting of the Sun" - that's a cool effect. song is ok otherwise, I prefer her with more energy

She’s always pushing uncommon aesthetic choices in her sound, but I don’t care for the specific aesthetic she going for this time and honestly, it sounds like she doesn’t either.

I appreciate the commitment from these two singles and performances so far but it’s a very niche sort of style that only a dozen of people might even want to hear revived. It’s like retelling a joke and killing it in the process.

her sound this time is just throwing a 70s aesthetic over her usual sound, like the bassline on "pay your way in pain" is the same sort of thing she's done plenty of times before (like "rattlesnake") but she's got electric piano and some backing vocalists over the top this time to make it sound 70s

she's the worst

I contend that musicians adjusting to "having been lauded" can be disorienting to them as songwriters, and they sometimes their subsequent work suffers from self-ironizing and self-critique. It's like a mid-career crisis. I'm really happy that tUnE-yArDs emerged from this wilderness of confusion this year

I'll give her this, it's certainly an idiosyncratic response to her dad getting out of prison

wait what

https://www.nylon.com/entertainment/st-vincent-detailed-daddys-home-in-an-interview

er, just read the original interview it's referencing

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/mar/04/st-vincent-id-been-feral-for-so-long-i-was-sort-of-in-outer-space

fgti makes an interesting point, although I don't know how closely it applies to St. Vincent. It makes me wonder about a thread, "Musicians whose music was damaged by prior acclaim/success".

She discusses his incarceration, the delusions of love – and why she remains as perverse as ever

lol, this subhed just makes me think of the chris fleming routine about her. "those aren't freaks, st. vincent. those are attractive people with heavily-vetted idiosyncrasies"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugm_QuQ5RbY

This was/is A Thing over the last decade or so; putting on a blonde wig and becoming a new character, invariably based in New York. In Bat For Lashes' case she was 'Pearl' I'm sure there were others.

"Perhaps Pearl fitted better in New York than I did. I think Pearl was my way to deal with the disappointment of New York not being what I thought it was going to be. And so she was kind of like an art project I created, by putting on a blond wig and changing my face with makeup and dressing up and taking pictures quite privately in Brooklyn at night-time. She represents a night-time, underground, quite dark and debauched side of me."

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/acid-factory/images/e/eb/Pearl.jpg

She has never been a stoner.

from the guardian piece

you don't say

^^ Oh my, I somehow forgot about the 'Pearl' nonsense from BFL (that album was good, tough).

Same brand of wig.

I remember one show that was mostly great, but she kept going into these ridiculous long, pre-scripted monologues that kept killing the momentum.

Arhhh yes, this happened when I saw her and it was very please stop now.

Between the s/t and Masseduction I can't think of an act for whom my enthusiasm dropped so severely from album to album; not since the days of Animal Collective at least.

Loved Actor, thought "Cruel" was great, S/T was very near the top of my EOY ballot for the year. Even enjoyed the Byrne collab quite a lot. Other than the monologues, the live show was fantastic. I was a fan.

But Masseduction felt off - something false, a little pretentious and irritating about it, like those live monologues birdistheword mentioned upthread. Something about it was trying too hard, like a guest at a party trying to impress people by making grand, outlandish claims about themselves. There was something "cocainey" about it (not that I'm insinuating anything about SV at all, it just came off that way). The humility and nuance of Actor was all but gone, replaced, ironically, with an actorly persona.

Not so much in the music as the execution, I can't get into the recent stuff for much the same reasons I can't get into Lana Del Rey. I'm totally into performers adopting personae to augment their music and to find new angles into their own style, but with SV all it seems to do is obfuscate the artist herself (who is interesting) with a less interesting veil.

it's funny - this seems to be the minority opinion in general but mine is the exact opposite of that (didn't like the early albums at all, think masseduction is by far the best thing she's ever recorded). haven't gotten into this yet/may never, but only because I don't like the music it's trying to pastiche

I don't think that sonically it's a tremendous leap from what she's done before, but I'm having trouble separating the music from the image. If I were to hear the song on its own, would I still be thinking "Hmm, sounds like Eurythmics parodying Fame-era Bowie parodying sixties blue-eyed soul"? Or would I think it sounds like St Vincent being St Vincent?

Maybe too early to tell and I should reserve judgement till I hear the album. I didn't love Strange Mercy save for a couple of songs, and even the S/T had a few which actively annoyed me.

Masseduction is great

I really like masseduction myself

Same. Actor and the S/T are my favourites but Masseduction didn't seem like a dip in quality at all. Based on her latest singles that dip is coming.

I really like what she did on marry me, thought actor was ok, skipped to masseduction and really liked it a lot. It seems v consciously performative in some ways (by which i mean not stream-of-conscience or like, rawly emotive?), but I think it goes off really well.

I have no opinion yet of what she’s doing now, yet, I’ve not heard it. As a type she’s always come off to me as “very-smart drama kid,” which sounds dismissive but I sorta just mean— that’s the only heuristic I have for what seems to be going on.

Same. Actor and the S/T are my favourites but Masseduction didn't seem like a dip in quality at all. Based on her latest singles that dip is coming.

― kitchen person, Wednesday, April 7, 2021 10:38 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

here comes the new jersey thread

never have liked st. vincent, but am always willing to give her a chance, because women in music yeah. this new song sounds like 70s joni mitchell made by someone who has never actually heard any 70s joni mitchell; only had it poorly described to them by a different person who is not very articulate and knows very little about how music is recorded.

listening to "pay your way in pain" now and jfc. this is just bad. what even is this music?

playing the other song again. kind of fascinated by how terrible it is.

does anyone remember when jewel went all teeny bopper pop and then when the album failed, she said it was an ironic post-modern artistic statement? feels like annie may be setting the table for one of those. but i hope not.

That Jewel album debuted at #2 and went gold, which isn't really "failing"

still, isn't a Jewel going gold a downgrade?

Well.

https://www.emmamadden.com/post/st-vincent-told-me-to-kill-this-interview

....I don't know if I can bear to read the actual interview, but this aggressive press management a la Chance is not at all surprising

it's kinda hard to understand why she wanted it killed so badly. did she think that just not answering when asked about her views on prison abolition etc. was a bad look? but i don't think she really handled that badly. being all 'i don't want to get into politics' is a much better look than offering up some very poorly thought out political view. otherwise she just comes across the same way she usually does (a little annoying) with it seeming a bit weird how uninterested she is about talking about her dad when that was a big part of the PR for this album etc. but like not any worse than usual or anything

yeah, i don't get why she would want it pulled, what an ultimately innocuous interview

I thought I had done a not-so-good job the night before. I ended the call thinking I hadn’t asked the right questions. St. Vincent and I didn’t feel like a good match in conversation

Agreed.

maybe she should just stop doing press since it seems to make her miserable

I like her answer about Greta Garbo, i mean for a standard pre-album release phone interview there's some good stuff in here!

I get the feeling that she and her publicists have read the room on the backstory of her father getting out of prison, realized that didn't land well, and now regret it.

as good a guess as any

really shitty of st. vincent, not terribly surprised

but also that was a pretty poorly conducted and awkward interview, you have to have that sense when someone has "closed the door" on a certain line of questioning, you're not going to get what you want out of them and pursuing it further will just cause them to shut down

I get the feeling that she and her publicists have read the room on the backstory of her father getting out of prison, realized that didn't land well, and now regret it.

― akm, Monday, April 26, 2021 11:27 AM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

i hadn't thought of that but i bet this is totally what happened

omg went to prison for a penny stock pump and dump, how incredibly Highland Park

if one were to 'consolidate the influences of their parents', would one then owe a lower emotional interest?

This oughtn't account for much as it's a personal feeling and you don't know me / can't get inside my head etc, and also I can be wrong and maybe regret it when reading this again in a few years' time... but I've realised I can't seem to be able to push play on a St Vincent album since forever, because my BS detector keeps suggesting to me she may really be a bit of an entitled prat, which is also how I basically came to feel about one of her role models i.e. Prince. With both of their musics, it all seems to scream, "Me, Me, Me" in my face; their PR demeanors, to go by this latest article on StV, also seem very alike. I had grown tired of her attention-getting shticks over the years - could be interviews, album cover photos, something in the live presentation - so much so that half a single interview would be enough to put me off having a listen to a new album of hers until the next one. "Contrived" is the operative word. Which all is to say that this latest thing hasn't really surprised me. Some work, too much work that stands in the way of my simple willing to have a listen in order to find out what she does - not who she is, or wants to project how she wants to be perceived.

I'd like to know if anyone is with me on this, or whether my intuition about Annie Clark is terribly off the mark.

If anything, the interviewer should be embarrassed for being ill prepared and awkward for the interview. Can't say I see a reason why the St. Vincent team would be so against this, at least nothing worth the bad press that comes with trying to have it killed.

but also that was a pretty poorly conducted and awkward interview, you have to have that sense when someone has "closed the door" on a certain line of questioning, you're not going to get what you want out of them and pursuing it further will just cause them to shut down

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, April 26, 2021 12:29 PM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I mean, probably why the "pursuing it further" happened close to the 30-minute mark

(also, don't most major artist PRs have a stated "don't ask questions about _____" policy going in? or is this just at the megacelebrity level?)

interviewer def. should have dropped it, dunno what she thought she was going to get. Also would it kill interviewers to ask directly about the music? fucking hell. so tired of this type of interview with musicians.

do not trust this writer

it wasn't just the dad stuff, this is just so clearly one where you just let it go

I guess last year’s riots brought abolition towards the mainstream, during the time you were making this record, which is partially about your father’s time in prison. How did that square with your thoughts on prison and the US carceral system?

Well I have plenty of thoughts on it, I’m not totally sure how it’s relevant to this.

Well I was wondering if you have a standpoint on it or if you’d rather just be ambiguous?

I have so many thoughts and opinions, I don’t presume that my thoughts and opinions are relevant on every subject though. I don’t have that much hubris.

a) much of the interview is, in fact, about the music; questions about inspiration for the music are still questions about the music, given that they're why it exists

b) it doesn't name the publication, for all you know it's more of a general-purpose outlet that isn't going to be interested in how many seconds an A sharp was held

c) so fucking tired of the "why don't they TaLk AbOuT tHe MuSiC?????" shit in general

let's get down to it -- why these notes? and why in this order?

(plus, for what it's worth, multiple advice-for-interviewing-musicians guides specifically advise to stay away from that kind of "let's talk about the music" question because too often it tends to result in a "well, we just played the song" non-answer)

b) it doesn't name the publication, for all you know it's more of a general-purpose outlet that isn't going to be interested in how many seconds an A sharp was held

this is definitely a binary with no middle ground

and the interview is definitely 0% about the music, with no middle ground

that was not my post or my claim

then I'm not sure why you're jumping down my throat over that

Thank you for sitting down with Food & Wine today. Let's start with the new album.

katherine - was not my intent to jump down your throat or seem aggressive, apologies

overall, i think the way music production has changed has changed the average musician's relationship to the nuts and bolts of making records. sure, in the 80s or something it was possible to just waltz in, cut a vocal and waltz out then let the pros take over, but i think almost any musician these days is doing some degree of self-production on their laptop, or making songs by sending mp3s to other members of the band or at the very least demos that would have been considered elaborate decades ago

i think this is especially true for newer artists who grew up with garageband, fruityloops, ableton etc etc

so i think "we just played it" happens less and less now, as fewer musicians work in traditional studio settings, going in for a month with a pro producer and leaving with a finished product

seems to me that they'd be happy to answer questions about that, or at least some of them

st. vincent in particular has been very thoughtful when talking about the nuts and bolts of her music, like in her guitar moves interview

but they do! "I love the sitar on this album especially on ‘Down’, the riff is so sick. How did you get to the sitar?", "I do hear a bit of (Candy Darling's) voice on the title track, I was wondering if you were kind of modeling your voice after her?", "Do you see this album as a movement, does it have a narrative?", "That’s just how I listened to this album, as a series of short stories. I was wondering how they interlink in your mind?", etc...

(also, I would bet money the '70s question was meant to segue into '70s influences on the album, of which there are many, given that it came toward the beginning, and then when st. vincent one-word-answered it the interviewer kind of had to rapidly regroup)

but the sitar question belied a lack of research and she didn’t even follow up when she was corrected about it being a specific type of guitar

anyway it’s off the internet now, so whatever

they must have got to her.

check the obits

I mean, people make mistakes or oversights in research; I know I have done it before. people are human, it happens. would be surprised if the sitar thing was what got this killed though

(plus sitar vs. electric sitar is such a small thing)

why the sitar?
it's not a sitar
sitar you sure?

Annie Clark must be in the pocket of Big Sitar.

this was Between Two Byrnes with St. Vincent

assuming the writer realized that posting it anyway did nothing but make her look untrustworthy and bad

Clark must have wanted the interview killed because she was not referred to as the King of Pop, per the terms.

sometimes a sitar is just a not really a sitar sitar

don't sitar them with the same brush

sure people make mistakes but if she had done more (or better) research she would have had more to fill out the time than questions about the same topic to which clark’s answers seemed like variations on “can we change the subject”

i get asking the ~hard questions~ about ~hot topics~ but at what point are you just not doing your job by taking different tacks in a short period of time

xp

and i mean it’s annie clark. she is a known gearhead. discussion of something george harrison played might segue more gracefully into the 70s angle this writer was so desperately looking for.

she never travels far without a little sitar

why the sitar?
it's not a sitar
(laughing) yes, well you played that sitar so damn good, they should throw you in jail
i was complimentary throughout the interview. I laughed at all of her jokes.

The Internet is forever

https://web.archive.org/web/20210426154208/https://www.emmamadden.com/post/st-vincent-told-me-to-kill-this-interview

It was a bad interview because a) the writer didn't seem fully prepped for it, and b) Annie Clark is a terrible interview subject who has never said a single interesting thing in any piece I've ever read about her. The ethics of posting the transcript after the publication caved to Clark's PR team and spiked the piece...eh, she'll probably never write for that outlet again, and it might have burned other bridges for her as well, since most editors these days are too dumb or overworked to think of creative write-around strategies, and therefore cower in fear of ever losing access. That's a hell of a professional hit to take for St fucking Vincent.

perhaps EM is hoping to play the "controversy" into a bigger deal

(plus sitar vs. electric sitar is such a small thing)

There's a pretty significant difference imo between a sitar (an acoustic instrument with movable frets and scalloped neck, played mostly with two left hand fingers on a primary and secondary playing string) and an electric guitar (with fixed frets and six playing strings, played with four fingers) that is adapted to emulate the sound of a sitar. Totally fair to mistake the sound of one for the other but I agree with Maura that if it was worth asking about the instrument in the first place, it was worth following up on when corrected. The fact that such a different instrument could be mistaken for the other is itself an interesting thing to go further with.

I earnestly love it when sund4r drops knowledge

perhaps EM is hoping to play the "controversy" into a bigger deal

I find this likely.

anyway time to bring back my favorite reddit post pic.twitter.com/T64f6Q6GKm

— the susan lucci of tribal council (@xtine_files) April 26, 2021

whatever else Annie Clark has a future describing album sleeves for Wikipedia.

I've told ev'ry little sitar

probably meant "discovered the wider discography of Kate Bush"?

Actually "scalloped neck" is more true of the veena, I think - the sitar's frets are raised and curved over the neck, which achieves a comparable effect.

Wow, wiki for the win;

Because the tone quality and playing technique differ significantly from that of the sitar, it is typically used in rock, jazz, and fusion styles. Notable early hit singles featuring electric sitar include Eric Burdon and the Animals' "Monterey", Joe South's "Games People Play", Stevie Wonder's "I Was Made to Love Her" (played by Eddie Willis) and "Signed, Sealed, Delivered", B.J. Thomas' "Hooked on a Feeling" (played by Reggie Young), The Spinners' "It's a Shame", The Box Tops "Cry Like a Baby" as well as some sides by The Stylistics and The Delfonics.

Other recording artists who have featured the electric sitar include:

Elvis Presley " 1969 America Sound recording sessions" "Stranger In My Hometown", "You'll Think Of Me"

Steppenwolf ("Snowblind Friend", played by producer Richard Podolor)
Mandrake Memorial
Kronos Quartet
Genesis (in "I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe)", "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight")
Yes (in "Close To The Edge", "Siberian Khatru", "Tales From Topographic Oceans", "To Be Over", "Into The Lens") and their guitarist Steve Howe on his solo albums
Mike Oldfield used it on "Flying Start" (on Islands)
The Clash (in "Armagideon Time")
Todd Rundgren
Redbone ("Come and Get Your Love")
Bo Donaldson and The Heywoods ("Who Do You Think You Are?")
The Grass Roots "Glory Bound"
Guns N' Roses (in "Pretty Tied Up")
Lenny Kravitz ("It Ain't Over 'til It's Over" and "Again")
Robbie Dupree ("Steal Away")
Oasis
Dinosaur Jr. (in "The Wagon")
R.E.M.
Metallica (in "Wherever I May Roam")
Steely Dan (in "Do It Again")
Paul Young (in "Everytime You Go Away")
Tom Petty (in "Don't Come Around Here No More")
Dan Fogelberg (in "Nexus")
George Duke and Stanley Clarke in ("Sweet Baby")
Santana
Roy Wood
Eric Johnson
Mystical Sun
Pearl Jam (in "Who You Are")
Screaming Trees in "Halo of Ashes"
Redd Kross (in "Play My Song")
Alice in Chains (in "What the Hell Have I")
Ugly Kid Joe (in "Cats in the Cradle")
The All-American Rejects (in ''Night Drive'')
Torsten de Winkel
Flower Travellin' Band
Prince
The Cure
Manic Street Preachers (in "Tsunami" and "I'm Not Working")
Hiroshi Takano
Miyavi
Sugizo
hide
Clarence White
Ronnie Wood
Kaoru of Dir en grey
Pat Metheny (notably on "Last Train Home")
Sigh
Steve Vai (notably on "For the Love of God")
Rory Gallagher (in "Philby")
Mint Royale
Steve Miller
Eddie Van Halen (on "Ain't Talkin' 'bout Love" & "Primary")
Tony Hicks of The Hollies
Schizo Da Maddcap
Rob Mastrianni (Beatbox Guitar, Next Tribe).
Raagnagrok is a contemporary duo using electric sitar and electronic.
Khalil Balakrishna, when playing live for Miles Davis.

Although George Harrison is generally credited with introducing the sitar into popular music, he is not known to have played a bona fide electric version on any recording.

On his award-winning 1969 instrumental rendition of the Joe South tune "Games People Play" saxophonist King Curtis teamed with guitarist Duane Allman on the electric sitar (he also played slide guitar). This can be found on the Duane Allman album An Anthology.

The 1971 album Somethin' Else recorded by Danny Davis and the Nashville Brass prominently featured an electric sitar, a first for the country music industry. The instrument provided accompaniment on such songs as "Snowbird", "Rose Garden", "Are You from Dixie?" and others.

On ABBA’s 1979 recording of "I Have A Dream" the refrain is played on an electric sitar. However the recording for the 2008 movie version of "Mamma Mia" featured a real bouzouki.[5]

The 1992 album Bloody Kisses by Type O Negative used an electric sitar in the song "Can't Lose You" played by Paul Bento from the band Carnivore.

Glass Hammer guitarist Kamran Alan Shikoh performed electric sitar in the band's song from 2009 to his departure in 2018.

In 2010, MGMT released their album Congratulations, where the electric sitar was played on many tracks by lead singer and guitarist Andrew VanWyngarden.

Blues musician Buddy Guy played, among other guitars, a Coral electric sitar in shows on his 2010 tour.

The 2014 album Black Messiah by American neo-soul singer D'Angelo and backing band The Vanguard, features use of the electric sitar on tracks such as "Another Life" and "The Charade".

The 2015 song "Multi-Love" by Unknown Mortal Orchestra makes use of the electric sitar.

it's also possible she just said "sitar" as shorthand instead of saying the full phrase "electric sitar," like how nobody says the full phrase "electric guitar" anymore

BTW:

Although George Harrison is generally credited with introducing the sitar into popular music, he is not known to have played a bona fide electric version on any recording.

So maybe Annie Clark should have done her fuckin' research, too.

she only said GH made them kinda popular in the 60s

even started it with "I think"

it’s a choral electric sitar guitar

I just realized she probably meant it was a Coral(TM) Electric Sitar.

damn I wish you hadn't shown me that now I want one

me too

Harrison made *sitars* popular in pop music, electric sitars are for poseurs like Annie Clark and the dozens of aforementioned great artists.

If my father spent ten years in jail and I was asked to describe my attitude re: prison abolition, I’d probably dodge the Q too— saying you’re for prison abolition will make you look like you support your white collar criminal father, saying you’re for anything less will make you look like a racist

that electric sitar is rad and I don't care if it is for poseurs.

(also just learned the author uses they/them, apologizes)

Absolute shitshow on Twitter

but its giving me an excuse to make fun of tool again

xps I got to play a remake of the Coral electric sitar once and it’s pretty great IIRC.

I bet that Tool has played electric sitars.

My guitar teacher learned to play sitar for something, he says it's really hard. Like, physically, it hurts the hell out of your hands.

Now everyone here wants a Vincent Bell electric sitar? Well well well looks like the sneaky little marketing campaign is going swimmingly.

xp guitar hurts the hell out of your hands when you first learn to play

evan you're my favorite poster of all time.

xpost Given that he plays guitar extremely well and has for decades, I trust him when he says the sitar is a different sort of discomfort.

i'm sure it is. but playing guitar was a different sort of discomfort as well. new instrument, new muscles. people who play the sitar don't appear to be in pain.

https://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20110923&t=2&i=505834748&w=780&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&sq=&r=2011-09-23T193841Z_01_BTRE78M1IKT00_RTROPTP_0_US-RAVISHANKAR

"Ow, my fingers!"

looks like he's measuring out a violin to play for your guitar teacher

did you maybe hint that you were considering switching to sitar lessons with Greg at the shop before he said this stuff about the sitar literally murdering everyone who plays it?

"i knew I shouldn't have taught him to play 'Do It Again'. they all threaten to leave for Greg after they learn 'Do It Again'"

That interview is dull. This whole thing is dull. I don’t understand.

Absolute shitshow on Twitter

― bruce spr!ngisH3r3 (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, April 26, 2021 12:17 PM

lol like that isn't just the natural state of twitter

Absolute shitshow is the lowest limit of the Twitter shit scale, a state at which the enthalpy and entropy of a tweet reaches their minimum value, taken as zero shits given.

that is some super solid forensic twitter analysis. your analyses deserve a better subject than twitter, honestly.

If actually reflects the Twitter shit paradox, which is that as a twitter thread approaches absolute shitshow, it becomes inversely proportional to the actual number of people that give a shit. Scientists have been trying to wrap their brains around it for years.

https://themuse.jezebel.com/you-dont-have-to-give-interviews-st-vincent-1846764691

The funny thing is, Clark has been unusually hostile to the press before.. After GQ published a profile of Clark in 2019, the writer Molly Young posted a now-deleted addendum to the piece on her own website describing how much Clark seemed to hate the entire process. She reportedly barely looked at Young, gave extremely short answers to her questions, and at one point asked her with “audible hostility” if she “liked doing this.” “Why had she agreed to this story?” Young wrote. “St. Vincent does not need to be in GQ. This is an elective activity.”

Women artists, especially in music, are often penalized for being aloof and cold. Historically, women performers have been expected to entertain audiences, while men get to go off and be sullen geniuses who destroy recording studios and make great art. So I can see Clark delighting in a posture that is unwilling to be forthcoming or cheery. Unfortunately, there is a fine line between being performatively difficult or caustic to make a dramatic point and being, well, an asshole.