Classic or Dud: U2

I think they're a dud because of Bono's rather predictable vocal stylings and with a handful of exceptions I've not seen much in the songs to redeem that. But they were onto something production wise with the Eno/Lanois sound on the Joshua Tree, a kind of stadium artrock shimmer which was marred by Bono's OTT bellowing but made for some grand rock singles anyhow. Since they discovered 'irony' they've been utterly unbearable.

1984 -- "What's this 'Pride' song on the radio? Hm, sounds nice."

1987 -- "This _Joshua Tree_ album is pretty good."

1988 -- "This _Rattle and Hum_ album is pretty shit, one or two tracks aside."

Through to the present -- occasional good tune to the contrary, *snore*

At this point, seeing U2 would rank up there as a 'pleasure' for me in the same way that seeing the Rolling Stones or Bruce Springsteen would. I leave that kind of joy to the deadened, blinkered likes of Robert Hilburn. Never has the continuing mainstream critical consensus been ever so increasingly frustrating and obnoxious, but I suppose they make a great band for somebody who buys one album a year.

I thought they might be onto something with 'Achtung Baby', which I don't mind, but then of course pomp and bluster took hold again, and it's back to business as usual.

the earnest stage, in, like the 80s, when they really meant it, and they rocked and all that stuff, and i don't even remember, just some ugly people on the tv. turn that over. boring. dud, of course they were dud. the 80s were grey and horrible, and they were grey and horrible for the simple reason that u2 were in them, dud dud dud.

the irony/postmodern thingy in the 90s, they didn't mean it anymore, they're only playing! "oh, we were pompous in the 80s, how silly we were' lets be as over the top as poss and subvert. irony, yeah!! no no no, dud again. is this phase more or less dud than the initial phase? can't decide.

now. they really mean it again. they're going to change the world with their big tuneful rock thats a bit pop too. and the pope likes them. and noel g too! dud, but not as dud as the other 2 phases. no wait, more dud.

aaargh, u2! the biggest dud of them all. but funny i guess.

so, dud then

Musically, I think they go from Dud to Classic and back a lot, but mainly I have a big U2 trauma, because they were by 10 miles the favorite band of all obnoxious rich kids at school - "Sunday Bloody Sunday" is their fucking "Stairway To Heaven" and it's ruined that song for me.

I seem to prefer Under A Blood Red Sky, Rattle & Hum and Zooropa over The Joshua Tree (too much bombast, "Where The Streets Have No Name" has no discernible tune) Achtung Baby (half of it is undistinctive atmospheric in-one-ear-out-the-other stuff) and the latest one (hits-plus-filler), but that might be just a personal thing.

I have no opinion about Bono's personality, but I remember once kids from my secondary school making some sort of amateur video, lipsynching to some song or other - this would be in the mid-80's - and halfway through it one of them starts brandishing a big white flag around, not as a statement or anything, but 'cause that's what rock bands do, right ? Bono does it !

They were a very pernicious influence at one point. They were one of the bands that made it almost impossible at one point for mainstream rock fans to enjoy music that isn't stadium-size. Plus almost every goddamn new Canadian rock band around 1987-89 sounded like U2 and Simple Minds.

ANYHOW, I apparently have to wave the flag nearly by myself but U2 are goddamned classics. Sure, Bono apparently has had sunglasses surgically attached to his face, and sure he's annoying, and sure Zooropa and Pop were piss, but no band who could put out something the level of Achtung Baby! should ever, ever, EVER be referred to as a dud. EVER. Their greatest hits album is just beautiful. I mean, yes, Bono is a twathead at times. I WILL GIVE ALL OF YOU THIS FACT. Mainly because it is a fact - I mean, he's like my dad's age and running around in those ridiculous colored sunglasses and sparkly shirts looking all the world like a glam-rock The Fly (thank god that phase is over), but come on - Bad, With or Without You, One - these are all fantastic songs.

You can't convince me you don't sing along with them in the pub. Not a one of you.

Anyhow, how is Achtung Baby the stupidest album title? It's just there and bland, it's not like, say, Enter the Dragon. I still haven't figured out what that means.

The music itself is a bunch of hammy guitar effects pedal tricks, overlaid with a straining, toilet seat voice trying hard to be epic and enigmatic but just ending up thoroughly, soddenly middlebrow.

However their first LP - although still ultimately crap - was a leaner, artier thing, when they were grooving to northern soul and joy division. Worth checking out, if only to confrim to yourself it's a blind alley.

BTW where the fuck is the kudos attached to "meaning it"? Hitler meant it!

I read a funny story about John Lydon sacking his manager circa 1989 because he told him he should "try to be more like Bono". I wish I'd been a fly on the wall when that conversation took place..

i don't care how much joy division they listen to (i mean, so does mogwai from all accounts). the overcooked grandiose "epic" vocals and cornball lyrics ("we eat and drink while tomorrow they die" *slap*) and totally nondescript rhythm section ruin very promising guitar parts and eno's production. i'd at least listen to an instrumental album by the edge.

search: "new year's day"

if one doesn't like bono's voice or even bono himself, then there's not much you can do. though if you can dislike the band just because of bono, you probably don't much like the music in the first place. for example, i hate thom yorke. truly and thoroughly. but when the music's fine, i can put that aside. (stunning revelation: i quite like "pyramid song.")

i'm arguably the most classic rock person on this board, so it should be no surprise that i'm a sucker for their grandiose arena rock. here's a question: how many of you that rate the rolling stones a classic, rate u2 a dud?

Michael, I don't understand your argument. Is it of '50 000 000 Elvis Fans Can't Be Wrong!' variety? The majority is always right, huh? Not that it even is a majority.

But I won't use the argument that U2 has millions of followers around the world, because so do NSYNC and Britney Spears, and we all know how talented (gag) they are. Instead, think about their 20+ year career history, and the number of hits they've produced. Whether someone likes U2's music or not should not be criteria in considering a group to be a classic. I'm not a Rolling Stones fan, but I have to admit, they are a classic, whether I like their music or not. U2 is in the same category- despite personal musical preference, they supercede personal taste because, in essence, THEY ARE A CLASSIC! You do not need to be a fan of U2's music to realize that they are a classic. Besides, how many are involved with Greenpeace, Amnesty International, etc etc and donate countless hours and money to causes, such as relieving 3rd world debt? Too many other rock groups are too high on coke and are too self-involved to partake.

Many of the previous arguments I've read are hardly convincing and seem petty, "U2 = dud, their music sucks and it's for old people and like, Bono's a twat and egomaniac...blah blah blah" So what if Bono's a drama queen? It's all part of the Rock act and makes it more interesting to the fans and followers (of which, you all know, they have millions). The group isn't just about Bono, come on, it's the entire package. U2 is without a doubt, a classic, and an undeniably great group.

Oh, that's a completely rubbish argument. Why is wrong for people to consider things on their own terms, and not accept pronouncements from Rolling Stone, Q et al at face value? I rather like the idea of people actually thinking for themselves instead of blindly accepting what they are told.

I can't hardly stand early U2 (whiny, monotonous, overblown), but everything from Joshua Tree on I find to be real groovy. Even Rattle & Hum. Achtung Baby is a great classic. The first side of Joshua Tree is flawless. Am I crazy?

Early U2 is quite clearly the bomb. The first three albums are glorious in their entirety. After that, they tend to be a mixed affair (the sole exception being _Achtung, Baby_ which is pretty much brilliant except for one song which is so dull that I can no longer recall its name or tune).

Are you sure you mean this? Though I entirely agree.

Look guys, U2 is a powerful band. They inspire extreme hatred in some people, but they inspire extreme love in far more. Regardless of how much Bono offends you (I'm still unclear as to how that can happen... he's quite harmless) the facts still stand: U2 is one of most artistically and commercially successful bands of all time.

Many of you mantain that they were good in the 80's but sold out in the 90's. I suggest looking up the word "irony" in the dictionary. During their ZooTV and PopMart stadium tours they flat out refused corporate sponsorship (unlike the Rolling $tones) and lost money as a result. Just as you wouldn't assume that a battered old book is of poor literary quality based on its cover, you shouldn't attribute shallowness to a band just because they have video screens and flashy lights.

And if U2 were a dud band, why would they go out of their way time after time after time to change their musical style, often against what is currently popular. 'War' was a big success, so why go do 'The Unforgettable'? If 'The Joshua Tree' made them the most popular thing to come out of Ireland since the potato, why do something like 'Rattle and Hum'? And if their earnest, save-the-whales style of the 80's worked so well, why in God's name would you go off with something like 'Achtung Baby' and ZooTV? And why then change into 'Pop'? Why?

Because they've got balls. U2 just keeps changing and growing, usually with success (UF, JT, Achtung) but sometimes getting burned (Rattle and Hum, Pop). Instead of choosing the quick and easy path by just repeating a familiar sound over and over, U2 never let the critics, the media, or any of you punks drag them down.

Because like the Beatles and the other established classic bands, U2's twenty-year career has been a continuous growth process. U2 just keeps evolving, so they ALWAYS HAVE SOMETHING NEW AND INTERESTING TO SAY.

And THAT is the critical component in seperating the wheat from the chaff. THAT is what makes U2 a classic, and THAT is what makes the Rolling $tones a dud.

Amen.

classic in the sense that they came out with a few good pop songs and records

dud in the fact that they are absolute crap now, are absoulute hypocrites and sellouts (the abc documentry sponsored by McDonalds, ticket prices only the rich can afford, bono dissing the "violence" by anti-capitolist protestors in Genoa whilst he was on a luxury yacht with tony blair without one mention of that protestor who was shot twice in the head, etc), were influenced by punk and yet at the same time sneered at the genre, along with the fact that bono's ego is larger than the size of the american continent and believes that the world revolves around him

i also think they ripped off depeche mode-badly-when they came out with achtung baby, only a few good songs on that record, and pop was much, much worse

i no longer buy u2 albums anymore, not even used

Uh, no. They just *bore* me. Is that so hard to understand?

If so, dud.

If not so -- liked them well enough when I was a teenager. Thought Rattle and Hum (a/k/a Boring and Dumb) was the aural equivalent of a clump of pubic hair in the shower. Originally hated "The Fly," and thought Bono's Fly-schtick was stupid, but came to like Achtung Baby well enough. Stopped caring not soon thereafter. Like the fact that Bono speaks up for Jubilee and Amnesty International, but since when does being a do-gooder necessarily = being a good music-maker?

Verdict: classic, but barely.

A very good way of putting it.

Your name is not Lestat.

Well I guess you buy more than one album a year since "_Achtung Baby_ deserves death", U2 just bore you and "This _Rattle and Hum_ album is pretty shit, one or two tracks aside". Just curious, I wonder what kind of music has your favour and what albums you didn't drown in your acid remarks this year.

Emeline Brunet.

Last year? Lateralus, Exciter, Group Sounds, The Blueprint, Ended Up a Stranger, Amnesiac, How I Loved You (and the Michael Gira solo) for starters, I could go on if you wanted me to. Point is, I love *that* and find U2 objectionable -- and I really don't care what you think. If you're a U2 fan in turn, you shouldn't be caring what I think. ;-)

I also love that guy at the top who said they experimented with electronica on 3 of their albums. you can't buy comedy that good. Don't you love when bands don't actually "experiment with electronica" but they say that they did and then all their fans are like "HEY THIS E-L-E-CTRONICA STUFF IS VERY GOOD".

I was so not a fan of that song when it came out. It's been years since I've heard it, so maybe time has dulled the pain -- though I suspect not.

I will gladly weather any ridicule people want to toss my way for liking "Stuck In A Moment..." because it's a great song (even if the video is somewhat trance-inducing in a bad way).

MY POINT.

Vinnie: "Walk On" is a decent song; certainly it has a better chorus than "Elevation", but loses out in the end because, well, the tune is hella-weak. Maybe it's just the singer in me, but there was a very memorable moment last week when I was at a pizza place with some singing friends and when "Stuck In A Moment..." came on, we all joined in on the chorus simultaneously and without prompting. It was then that I realized how catchy that chorus is.

Remember, the difference in vowels in our name indicates that there will always be some minor points of conflict.

And a last thing : "If you're a U2 fan in turn, you shouldn't be caring what I think. ;-)"

Well I do love U2 but I care what you think : I'm not upset that you can't stand them, I just like the way you shoot them down, simple and sarcastic but still... funny. I guess I'm a fan who appreciates interesting remarks, even if there are sometimes a bit harsh.

The prospect of the whole band. As it happens, I rather think that Achtung Baby reflects U2 listening to Violator instead of the other way around! ;-)

Well I do love U2 but I care what you think : I'm not upset that you can't stand them, I just like the way you shoot them down, simple and sarcastic but still... funny. I guess I'm a fan who appreciates interesting remarks, even if there are sometimes a bit harsh.

Ah, that's quite all right, then! I'm crabbier than I seem, I think, and I like people who stick to their guns but allow for debate anyway. :-)

>>>>>> the rest

Unforgettable fire, joshua tree = less classic, but classic

rattle & hum = dud

acthung baby = classic

zooropa = less classic, but classic

since "pop" = so completely dud it is almost insane.

It's not that hard, trust me.

de gustibus est non disputandem bla bla bla

I like people who still think that 'good' is an objective term. You make me happy.

Now way up at the top of the thread you'll actually see that in the past I had quite a fondness for them, though never a full on 'must own everything' obsession. This fondness has been shot and has rotted away in the ground for almost fifteen years now.

The first few records are brilliant. And they always craft one terrific tune per CD.

But Bono is such an annoyance. I wanna break his glasses bad.
Plus, The Edge still calls himself The Edge. He's what, pushing 50?

Their current claim to quality is that they're not Sting.

has u2 ever had any grace or dignity? their entire career seems riddled with fashion don'ts. they were cuter in their youth, but they were still guilty of numerous crimes against decency (ok starting with war, I really don't know the first two albums well at all).

Well, i suppose it's all relative. Circa The Unforgettable Fire it certainly seemed like they were both graceful and dignified, but I'm sure it struck some that they were overreaching and pious at the time. Seems to me, though, that they stumbled after Achtung, Baby and still haven't re-found their footing.

Blasfemy!

But without them, we wouldn't have the Negativland thing.

ranking 'em, personal choices:

Zooropa
Achtung Baby
Pop
The Joshua Tree
War
ATYCLB
Boy
The Unforgettable Fire
Rattle and Hum
October

Passengers would rank up high, but that ain't all U2. Never understood the dislike of their '90s work. Bono tones it down, better musically, better lyrics. Seems to be a good formula.

I think of Bono as an Irish David Lee Roth doing a bad impersonation of Springsteen. Sure, he says something quotably dumb and ridiculous every time he's interviewed...but thats why we* like like him.
* = The "we" in question is me and my buds. "Bad Bono Quotes" is our favorite impromptu bar game.

Zooropa remains their best album, and a largely unappreciated precursor to the likes of Kid A (Wake me up when Thom Yorke writes a song as good as "Lemon"), but I quite like their last two retro-80s efforts as well.

that said, I put on "Pop" for the first time in a long, long while at work today and I have to say I really enjoyed it. I liked U2 a lot more in high school, ive kinda grown out of it, but both Auchtung Baby and Pop are classics in my mind, fuck all the haters.

and achtung is a precursor to OK Computer. hmm, come to think of it Zoo Station and Airbag are similar in a lot of ways. never thought of that till now.

not that I love u2 by any means, I just love that album. it's that "ham-fisted attempt at soul or gospel whose title ends in a preposition" that's probably what gets me more than anything. and the pompousness that goes with it.

"You can't forget or cancel something you genuinely liked at some point", I was told. But for U2, I could. DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUD

20+ years later, I'd change that to "they *could* be one of the greatest bands ever, but post-Zooropa (which is the only other U2 album I listen to all the way through) they seem to be content just doing the same thing and load up the albums with one song for the old fans, one oddball song, and another overblown ballad which is their equivalent to an Aerosmith soundtrack theme.

Anyway, both classic AND dud simultaneously.

This is probably the closest to the truth of all of the responses to this question.

I'll always love "I Will Follow."

Ah well, fuck you 15 yr old Tom, you're too skinny anyway. DUD.

I heard "Gloria" subsequently, and went off them.

As for Bono's political activism, personally I find him annoying, but I'm easily able to put that annoyance aside because his efforts certainly have helped many people around the world, and my personal opinions are pretty tiny and selfish compared to that. I can't stand Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt either, but they're still doing great things, even if it's partially to improve their image (which I'm not claiming, but is certainly possible). We do have to remember that despite the fact that these folks have lived pampered lives, they've also had the opportunity to see horrible things that most of us haven't, and that's bound to affect anyone who still has the smallest degree of humanity.

No Line On The Horizon

http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/music/newsid_7832000/7832748.stm

album track titles:

The full track listing is:

1. No Line On The Horizon

2. Magnificent

3. Moment of Surrender

4. Unknown Caller

5. I'll Go Crazy If I Don't Go Crazy Tonight

6. Get On Your Boots

7. Stand Up Comedy

8. Fez - Being Born

9. White As Snow

10. Breathe

11. Cedars Of Lebanon

"Cedars of Lebanon" Bono's contribution to peace in the Middle East?

I'll Go Crazy If I Don't Go Crazy Tonight

^^^ Must be the Garth Brooks collab.

bono has compared the U2 sound as being influenced by trance, Led Zep and Moroccan music

back in december 2007

People will “feel the difference” when they hear the new U2 album, Bono tells The Independent. The album will find the Irish rockers taking on trance, metal and Moroccan influences. “Normally when you play a U2 tune, it clears the dance floor. And that may not be true of this. There’s some trance influences,” says Bono, forgetting his band’s own Pop album. “It’s not like anything we’ve ever done before, and we don’t think it sounds like anything anyone else has done either.” According to Bono, guitarist The Edge has “real molten metal” coming from his guitar, and that the band has recorded enough material to fit two CDs.

2009

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/a140783/u2-album-inspired-by-led-zep-jack-white.html

Speaking to Rolling Stone, the guitarist said that he is a big fan of Led Zeppelin's Jimmy Page and recently contributed to the documentary It Might Get Loud with the legendary musician.

"I was just fascinated with seeing how Jimmy played those riffs so simply, and with Jack as well," said The Edge.

The new album is said to include blues rock tracks, with the first single expected to be 'Get On Your Boots'.

Bono commented: "There's some very hardcore guitar coming out of The Edge. Real molten metal."

Please tell me that 'Stand Up Comedy' is a spoken word interlude.

At last Larry gets to shine!

Fez - Being Born - this must be the Moroccan track

Fez

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fes
is the fourth largest city in Morocco, after Casablanca, Rabat and Marrakech with a population of 946,815 (2004 census). It is the capital of the Fès-Boulemane Region.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/azou7/TommyCooper-1.jpg

just like that

Just when I thought our cherished Martian comedy was gone for good, it's back. Incongruous painstaking revival of a U2 thread, with pasted information about North Africa? What next?

jesus this album sounds bad. trance blues....shudder.

tho haven't u2 always been influenced by trance?? or indeed influencing it? it's no coincidence that Paul Oakenfold used to play "Where The Streets Have No Name" or that that "Take Me To The Skies" above record used the bassline from "With Or Without You"

the new single gets premiered on alex zanes xfm show this monday apparently.

Once, when I was with my then girlfriend, U2 came on the radio, and I said

I loathe U2

and she said

You loathe me?

lol

There are bands I love more, but I don't think there's a band I love more that's hated more by people whose opinions I respect.

That said, it took me seeing them live after the last album (my first U2 concert) for me to become a full-on, high-school-era-level believer again.

(I.e. back when I wore a "U2 - Boy" t-shirt and my classmates would go "You, too, boy!")

So I humbly retract this review:

http://www.citypages.com/2005-01-05/music/sunday-boring-sunday/

I like people who are passionate about early U2. Cheers.

The U2 effect

http://www.boredrevolution.com/?p=34

Coldplay, however, released two beautiful records of everyday heartbreak and insecurities

No.

and they were both singles...

http://www.spotify.com/go/20090223-u2-excl-preview-guardian

Coldplay, however, released two beautiful records of everyday heartbreak and insecurities

Fixed!

recent sets: http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/u2/2011/angel-stadium-anaheim-ca-63d31217.html
suggest Glastonbury is going to be amazing. they deserve it after so much bile's been aimed at them these last years. people randomly hating on U2's career just because Bono is up his own arse is just the worst criticism of music ever.

DL otm here http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/19/u2-headline-glastonbury-debate

"Here's the world's most successful live band moving outside their comfort zone and needing to prove themselves to an audience that could go either way. However it goes down, that should be something to see."

i'm with DL as well.

wondering if this will give them a way to cut back on the excess of the recent glass spider tour, and declare a rediscovered love of back to basics gigs ..

[i mean, surely they are not bringing the spider contraption to G ? ]

i'm american, so glastonbury doesn't mean much to me, but DL OTM. few things more tiresome than knee-jerk U2 hate.

that said, i spent years hating them for the negativland "U2" business, so...

cant figure out the thread that the recent Achtung Bay docu has been given some love on, so dropping on this one.
tis fascinating to see the band so riddled with doubt during their rattle & hum era.
i would have thought by that stage they had their thing locked down.
and the fact they believed they believed that they didn't have enough material for a stadium (as opposed to arena) shows despite the fact they were several albums into their career.
other than that, its a great watch .. loved the section re the breakdown of bands ("bought out", "snuck out" etc)
so many good quotes ..

of course : bay = baby

October is by far the best Christian rock record ever made. In all seriousness, it's an incredibly overlooked record, both in their catalog and overall. (This was brought to light in a recent discussion with a self-professed "huge U2 fan" who had never even heard it.) The urgent, devastating, soaring guitar solo in "Tomorrow"? Edge's guitar work overall? Bono is his usual strident self, but there's a lot less chest-beating than on the overrated War, and the whole band is tighter, more singular, and more focused than on Boy. It's a strange and captivating record, and I wonder if any ILMers have visited it lately.

why do I have this thread bookmarked

HE'S WATCHING YOU, DAN.

http://www.john-lee-ministries.org/Bono-Macphisto.jpg

anyway OTM re: October

I think it's a terrific record. But it's their hardest to get a handle on - I think largely down to the flat-yet-echoey production, it's of-its-time in a way that the others aren't, because they all get scooped up into the U2 sound. So while I like it, I'm more likely to consider it in another context, like if I'm thinking about Echo & The Bunnymen rather than U2 (I almost never do this btw).

I don't know if this is why I also find it slightly impenetrable - I know that personally they were wrestling with Christianity, but whether (other than a couple of obvious examples) and how that feeds in lyrically I just don't know. Is it Christian Rock? Is Tomorrow? I'm wary of categorising it as such - for one thing, anything prior to Zooropa seems equally worthy of the term.

x-post

I don't think I'll ever fully understand the vitriol spewed at Bono by so many... I mean, I get it: he's pretty douchey, he's pretty self-righteous, fine. But the dude has an amazing voice, and he's not any more over-the-top than so, so, so many other famous vocalists, neither in personality nor in vocal style/presence. I guess I should say that, while I can comprehend the vitriol, I can't inhabit it. I just can't. But that's a blind spot I'm happy to have.

think of it this way; if Jane's Addiction had released a bazillion albums, Bono would have been supplanted by Perry Farrell a long time ago

x-post

Ismael, it somehow feels more Xtian to me than anything else by them, but I would never call it "Christian rock"... I mean, there's "Gloria", there's the chorus that goes "Je-RUUUUU-saaa-lem", there's "Rejoice"... I like the production quite a bit; there's a simplicity and dry-ness to it that you don't really hear on any of their other records. You can really hear the individual parts and hear the players interact. Edge's "gentle cascades of fireworks on the horizon" guitar shadings are more implied than so explicitly framed as on The Unforgettable Fire and The Joshua Tree. He sounds more like a very creative, very economical, very distinctive postpunk guitarist; the link between him and Steve Fellows of Comsat Angels is its most explicit on this record.

Best angle I have on the Bonophobia is that it's a mix of envy and embarrassment. Because when you're young Bono is the guy you want to be, then you grow all cynical and failed in various ways, but he's still that guy - so what else are you going to do but hate?

In breaking Bono news, my sister was passing the famous Bono Vox shop last week, and it's closed down. The sign's still up, but the windows have been boarded over. One of the less-heralded sad days for rock & roll.

I actually always wanted to be Edge when I was younger...

He's the first guitarist I remember registering as "a guitarist I really like"--this was at age, like, 10 or so. Discovering postpunk early in college blew my head right open because all of a sudden here were all of these guitarists who did cool economic angular things like Edge!

when you're young Bono is the guy you want to be

really?

Best angle I have on the Bonophobia is that it's a mix of envy and embarrassment. Because when you're young Bono is the guy you want to be, then you grow all cynical and failed in various ways, but he's still that guy - so what else are you going to do but hate?

lol what

I so adore psychoanalytic explanations for why we dislike rock star posturing.

I don't think I'll ever fully understand the vitriol spewed at Bono by so many...

admittedly this is recent, but I still offer it up as exhibit A:

HAHAHA! OH MY GOD BONO NOOOO SOMEONE MAKE HIM STOP OH THE HUMANITY

Bill Flanagan deserves a Nobel Prize for literature for making Bono a probing intellect in U2 At the End of the World, still one of the most intelligent tour biographies extant.

Well yeah, he should probably be drawn and quartered for that... I just get the impression that Bonohate among the cognoscenti has been around pretty much as long as the band itself, to the point where it's bascially institutionalized. Why so much hatred in the early days?

that was an x-post BTW

The only thing I remember about U2 At the end of the world was this picture and caption:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_u-zEPWVQP0E/S0Nf1g5Cs6I/AAAAAAAAD9I/3iaDjwEIhm8/s800/lm1.jpg

Larry Mullen, toughest guy in the band

And a chapter about Bono's nautical kleptomania that was too awesome to be true

and swimming nude on Bondi Beach with a waitress they shanghaied.

mullen is such a beaver, damn

I'm mulling that one over

Why so much hatred in the early days?

I don't remember any Bono hatred at all in the early (pre-Joshua Tree) days, apart from the stray "Boy, that singer's crazy, climbing up the scaffolding!"-type comment.

Holy crap does it bother me when people inexplicably invoke the "U2 was being ironic" line when it comes to talking about "Achtung Baby" and "Zooropa," two of their most heartfelt and honest albums, imo. Like, who listens to "Achtung Baby" and just thinks such a dark record is actually the band being silly, ironic and goofing around?

http://www.avclub.com/article/foo-fighters-taylor-hawkins-why-he-hates-u2s-disco-204670

Seriously, what album was he listening to? I can imagine hearing "Discotheque" and hating it, and yeah, that song is one of the few examples of U2 actually being ironic/silly, but even "Pop" is a pretty dark record. But I totally don't get people who shrug at "Achtung" as some sort of digressive lark.

"I know! Let's ask the Foo Fighters drummer why he hates U2."

I remember back in the ’90s when the song came out that these talk show guys on KROQ out here in L.A.—Kevin and Bean—they kept going, “Okay, we’re going to play you a little bit of the U2 song. We’re going to play you a little bit of the new U2 song. We can only play a little bit of it and here it is right here. Ready? Okay!” Then they’d play that Rick Astley song [starts singing] “Never gonna give you up / Never gonna let you down!” And then they’d turn it off really quickly and go, “That’s the new U2 song! They’ve changed direction!” And the funny thing is, a couple of weeks before, Tommy Lee had been interviewed so they had a sound bite of Tommy Lee going, “You guys are fags!” So they’d go, “We’re going to play the new U2 song, we’re going to play a little snippet of it. Here it is,” [starts singing] “Never gonna give you up / Never gonna let you down,” then they’d turn it off and you’d just hear Tommy Lee go, “You guys are fags.” And it was so fucking funny, man.

Beat me to it

ha ha ha that sure is a good one

TH: I remember back in the ’90s when the song came out that these talk show guys on KROQ out here in L.A.—Kevin and Bean—they kept going, “Okay, we’re going to play you a little bit of the U2 song. We’re going to play you a little bit of the new U2 song. We can only play a little bit of it and here it is right here. Ready? Okay!” Then they’d play that Rick Astley song [starts singing] “Never gonna give you up / Never gonna let you down!” And then they’d turn it off really quickly and go, “That’s the new U2 song! They’ve changed direction!” And the funny thing is, a couple of weeks before, Tommy Lee had been interviewed so they had a sound bite of Tommy Lee going, “You guys are fags!” So they’d go, “We’re going to play the new U2 song, we’re going to play a little snippet of it. Here it is,” [starts singing] “Never gonna give you up / Never gonna let you down,” then they’d turn it off and you’d just hear Tommy Lee go, “You guys are fags.” And it was so fucking funny, man.

xpost

'pop' is dope imo.

that whole thing may be the dumbest conversation ever transcribed. a post-exodus av club writer talking to the second best drummer in the foo fighters.

next up ask him about vaccines and whether or not HIV causes aids.

Ugh, I can't think of a drummer who's more of an utter non-entity than Taylor Hawkins.

Like, who listens to "Achtung Baby" and just thinks such a dark record is actually the band being silly, ironic and goofing around?

This is otm.

'pop' is dope imo.

― christmas candy bar (al leong), Friday, May 23, 2014 10:43 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^ this. They should've packed it in after Pop, because everything after was strictly snoozeville.

"AVC: It feels like both Pop and Achtung Baby were supposed to make listeners think U2 was this fun party band, which they never really were."

featuring such floor fillers as "so cruel" and "wake up dead man"

yeah but he likes Queen. Those guys were fags. It was so fucking funny, man.

I'm down w their post-pop stuff generally (NLOTH >ATYCLB>>>HTDAAB) but probably the worst thing abt U2 is how they distanced themselves from their most bizarre '90s stuff so quickly.

achtung and pop : quite simply, brilliant albums.

i hated, i mean, really hated, u2 before these albums (and bh was even more anti-u2 than me, out of principle !).

however, a friend gave me tix to see the zooropa live show in leeds, and i have never seen anyone totally denouce their previous groove as quickly as bh did that night.

after the gig the band became hq faves ..

i do wish the band would kick that groove again (there is a chance given that the new track was all about the minimal electro drums ?)

In HateSong, we ask our favorite musicians, writers, comedians, actors, and so forth to expound on the one song they hate most in the world.

Kevin and Bean, holy shit, they were (are?) the worst.

Taylor Hawkins: Let me start out by saying that I love U2. I really do, especially the first four records. They’re very, very important records. They were super, duper important to me growing as a musician, whether I was 10 or 12 or 14. Boy, October, War, The Unforgettable Fire, and The Joshua Tree, those records, they’re part of my musical DNA and structure.

(Insert Drummer Math Joke Here)

Achtung Baby is cool and I liked No Line on the Horizon, remember old friend giving me shit for how dad-rawk some of it was though and I have to concede he was right in parts

This HateSong seems like bullshit

Or rather, a mildly diverting idea executed terribly

Their panicked backsliding from Pop is so tragic. They were really finding something there, oh well.

The panicked backsiding started with Pop itself. Jettison the U2 anthems, begin with "MOFO," and you got something.

This HateSong seems like bullshit

Actually, I've liked a few of those. The Black Lips guy's Lorde one was good, the Black Eyed Peas one was good, the Macklemore one was good (both by comedians, it helps). It's Taylor Hawkins who executes poorly.

http://www.avclub.com/article/bitchface-comedian-joe-mande-why-he-hates-macklemo-202946

http://www.avclub.com/article/eugene-mirman-on-why-the-black-eyed-peas-i-gotta-f-92678

http://www.avclub.com/article/black-lips-cole-alexander-naivete-lordes-royals-202578

Maybe this was the Macklemore?

http://www.avclub.com/article/al-madrigal-on-why-he-abhors-macklemore-ryan-lewis-98825

So ... there's a new album out.

01 The Miracle (of Joey Ramone)
02 Every Breaking Wave
03 California (There Is No End To Love)
04 Song For Someone
05 Iris (Hold Me Close)
06 Volcano
07 Raised By Wolves
08 Cedarwood Road
09 Sleep Like A Baby Tonight
10 This Is Where You Can Reach Me Now
11 The Troubles.

I love this tracklisting so much I almost want to hear the album

Sounds fine so far.

Snap reaction: the fact that this is the real Bono and not any of a few dozen not-Bonos is a benefit to an album that's trying (albeit not too hard) to sound like all the bands fronted by not-Bonos.

1. The Miracle (of Joey Ramone)
Produced by: Danger Mouse, Paul Epworth and Ryan Tedder

1. The Miracle (of Joey Ramone)
Produced by: Danger Mouse, Paul Epworth and Ryan Tedder

1. The Miracle (of Joey Ramone)
Produced by: Danger Mouse, Paul Epworth and Ryan Tedder

1. The Miracle (of Joey Ramone)
Produced by: Danger Mouse, Paul Epworth and Ryan Tedder

1. The Miracle (of Joey Ramone)
Produced by: Danger Mouse, Paul Epworth and Ryan Tedder

Jesus fucking

Haha are those really the song titles? Those are great.

track-by-track at rolling stone

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/u2-songs-of-innocence-surprise-album-guide-20140909

The amazing song titles on "No Line on the Horizon" are what sparked the ILX precovers concept.

However "Songs of Innocence" is a terrible album name.

the next album is called Songs of Experience

Sex of Songperience

the tedderization of everything is complete

Dongs of Senecense

I guess there was a proposed album called Songs of Ascent that was never released?

Please tell me there isnt a song on this thing called The Troubles

jesus

Not about the IRA! But an earlier song is.

the mIRAcle (of joey ramone) right?

The Miracle (Of the Troubles)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/style-blog/wp/2014/09/09/u2-makes-history-offers-new-album-for-free-on-itunes-during-apple-event/

U2′s new album being automatically added to our iTunes library is the most disgusting invasion of personal space by technology in history

the mIRAcle (of joey ramone) right?

lol

when I got my first Mac in 2001 it came with some songs preloaded, including New Order's "Age of Consent", and I guess Apple did that? so not unprecedented ... though still it's 2010s we're talking about here

Wait, is this getting downloaded to our computers without us asking for it or do you have to click download to get it in your iTunes?

You have to click download. (Note: you do not have to click download. No one is forcing you to listen to U2.)

some folks on twitter exaggerating a bit, and quoted in that Post article

some folks on twitter exaggerating a bit

nothing new to ILX there tbf

I remember that my sister's macbook has Nick Cave's 'Into My Arms' preloaded sometime in the early 2000s

Free album? When is Bono gonna come through with some fuckin' free t-shirts, man?

Is there really supposed to be a period after Troubles?

The Troubles.

WTF man

That is so fucking precious

So everyone who bought a MacBook in the early 2000s was greeted with "I DON'T BELIEVE IN AN INTERVENTIONIST GOD"
xpost

Sonic Cathedral @soniccathedral

U2 are already in my music library are they? no they're not *deletes itunes*

http://perfectedpixels.weebly.com/uploads/4/5/9/3/459344/5939044.png

The Miracle (Of Joey From Friends)

apparently, iTunes was bundled with all of the following songs when first launched in 2001:

Amanda Ghost, Idol
Amanda Ghost, Cellophane
Andreas Johnson, Glorious
Arkarna, Life Is Free
Arkarna, Insecurity
Arkarna, House On Fire
Barenaked Ladies, If I Had A $1,000,000
Barenaked Ladies, Jane
Barenaked Ladies, One Week
Belly, Feed The Tree
Bob James, Raise The Roof
Boney James, All Night Long
Boney James, R.S.V.P.
Brad Mehldau, Madrid
Dave Ralph, Max Graham "Airtight"
Dave Ralph, Tea Freaks "Arms of Orion"
Depeche Mode, Strangelove
Euge Groove, Romeo & Juliet
Holly Palmer, Come Lie With Me
Infected Mushroom, Symphonatic
Joshua Redman, Neverend
Kenny Garrett, G.T.D.S
Kevin Mahogany, Still Swingin'
Lang, K.D., When We Collide
Lang, K.D., Only Love
Larry Carlton, Fingerprints
The Living End, Roll on
Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, Into My Arms
Pat Metheny, Follow Me
Pat Metheny, James
Paul Oakenfold, Ascension "Someone" (Slacker Mix)
Penelope Houston, Sweetheart
Penelope Houston, Grand Prix
Phish, Heavy Things
Phish, Sample In A Jar
Phish, Limb By Limb
Randy Newman, The World Isn't Fair
Randy Newman, Can't Keep A Good Man Down
Sasha & John Digweed, Breeder 'Tyrantanic' (Slacker's Kingdom Come Mix)
Submarine, Sunbeam (Deepsky's Desert Sunset Mix)
Total Eclipse, Psychedelic Terrorist
Wilco, Monday
Wilco, A Shot In The Arm
8 Stops 7, Question Everything

A lot of harsh zings of a band that literally every adult has liked at some point in their lives.

Is there really supposed to be a period after Troubles?

The Troubles.

WTF man

― Rand McNulty (Jon Lewis)

please god, we'll be living in it soon enough

every adult

speaking of exaggerations

Not an exaggeration.

xxxxpost a poll that has to happen

If you're over 20 years old, you have liked U2 at some point.

U2′s new album being automatically added to our iTunes library is the most disgusting invasion of personal space by technology in history

the public should probably sue these fuckers but apparently a lot of the lawyers involved would be pro bono

They should have a hidden track on this called Fuck REM

If you're over 20 years old, you have liked U2 at some point.

woah sell it to grantland, don't give it away for free

I'm trying to think of any other band that I rallied around in the early 80s where I just do not care about a new release any more. REM got there too at the end, but I think I cared about them longer.

If you're over 20 years old, you have liked U2 at some point.

― Immediate Follower (NA), Tuesday, September 9, 2014 5:51 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

44 and nope

the public should probably sue these fuckers but apparently a lot of the lawyers involved would be pro bono
i'm definitely mullen over some legal action

lololol

can the latest update of imovie come bundled with the bono tinariwen video?

woah sell it to grantland, don't give it away for free

― da croupier, Tuesday, September 9, 2014 3:53 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

dying

If you're over 20 years old, you have liked U2 at some point.

― Immediate Follower (NA), Tuesday, September 9, 2014 5:51 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You've polled everyone in China, Indonesia, Sudan...

the lamest imaginable 20-something year olds in china probably like u2 just as much as the lamest imaginable 20-something year olds in the us do

David Byrne tracks from something unspeakable called Look Into My Eye or something was already on my pc somehow when i bought it some time in the 90s.

likely story

haha!

"And you may find yourself with tracks from my solo album on your new PC/And you may ask yourself, "How did they get there? My god what have I Done?"

how could ppl born in 1993 ever possibly have liked U2

^^^ haha A+ (xpost)

Look into the Eyeball is an album by musician David Byrne, released on May 8, 2001. The single "Like Humans Do" was supplied with Windows XP Home Edition operating system to showcase Microsoft's Windows Media Player.[2][3]

ah yeah that was it.

Eric Harvey pointed this out on twitter

“We were paid,” Bono tells TIME. “I don’t believe in free music. Music is a sacrament.”

sac·ra·ment noun \ˈsa-krə-mənt\
: an important Christian ceremony (such as baptism or marriage)

the Sacrament : the bread and wine that are eaten and drunk during the Christian ceremony of Communion

how much is communion these days anyway?

still only the one wafer iirc

dud

at least it wasn't free with the Daily Mail i suppose.

i lost steam on the whole bono is damien theory after the spider-man musical and no line on the horizon flopped but if he's saying sacraments should be sold i say

SEE THE OMEGA CODE

David Byrne tracks from something unspeakable called Look Into My Eye or something was already on my pc somehow when i bought it some time in the 90s.

This:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uojmgiWfC0

And Weezer and Edie Brickell had music videos come with the original Windows 95 CD.

xxxxpost a poll that has to happen

― Rand McNulty (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, September 9, 2014 2:51 PM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

indeed Best Song Bundled with the original iTunes Launch in 2001

the entry for pop music on the OG encarta cd had a snippet of elvis costello's "pump it up" and maybe one of "the lion sleeps tonight"

And Weezer and Edie Brickell had music videos come with the original Windows 95 CD.

― MarkoP,

man do you know how life changed when I knew I could program my PC bought in January '96 to serenade me with "Buddy Holly"

Soundgarden was on there too - "Nothing To Say"

There are some OK songs on this new one. Bono's lyrics are pretty bad, but more interesting than Chris Martin bad. There is a block midway through this that would have sounded great with old-U2 production. "Volcano," "Raised by Wolves," "Cedarwood Road," "Sleep Like a Baby Tonight" (this one pretty unusual for U2). They've been burning through today's B-list A-list producers, but probably could have been better prodded by an old-school A-lister like Lillywhite, or just Flood, or someone to counter the drift toward keeping up with the joneses slick.

Interesting: there are a couple of guitar solos on this thing. Remedial, sure - it's the Edge - but there.

i like a very tiny sampling of u2, mostly boy, after which they generally misunderstood their own importance, until zooropa which is a kind of perfect equation of self-serious and sardonic bono (plus, from the same era, "hold me thrill me").

having said that i listened to this out of morbid curiosity and i... kind of like it? "every breaking wave" has more ideas in it than all of no line on the horizon and the tedder production is indelibly gross and overcalculated but that makes me like it... more? they sound pretty invigorated by it, way moreso than the amnesiac washes of no line. even the songs i don't like take sort of interesting turns i.e. the reported edge "solos" are all pretty great

reserving the right to suddenly hate this on second listen

The Miracle (of Joey Ramone)

Just thinking about this title, wasn't Joey listening to U2 when he passed away? 'One' iirc

"In a Little While."

ah, indeed it was:

On the live concert film, Elevation 2001: Live from Boston, Bono introduces the song by explaining it was the last song Joey Ramone heard on his deathbed. He notes his honor of having one of his favorite musicians loving a song of his

died as he lived, listening to Bono

Presumably it's explicated elsewhere that he liked it, cos dying while listening to it's pretty ambivalent criticism

05 Iris (Hold Me Close)

i just want u2 know who i am

If you're over 20 years old, you have liked U2 at some point.

Nope. And i saw them before any of youse - first, maybe second gig they played post -Hype. Shit then, shit now, shit in between.

I am 38 and at one point in my life they were my favorite band ("Joshua Tree" though "Rattle & Hum").

Sort of serious question, are Apple & U2 such tight bros cuz Apple used (uses) Ireland as a tax shelter?

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6525315?start=0&tstart=0

turingtest2
Sep 9, 2014 2:48 PM
Re: How do I remove the free U2 album from my iTunes library?

iTunes Store > Quick Links > Purchased. Use All and Not on this computer as you would expect. If you delete the album and hide from iTunes in the Cloud it will disappear from both lists.

Unfortunately, I clicked on the song 'The Troubles' from my iPhone, causing it to download to my phone. Hiding the album within my Cloud does not delete that track. also unfortunately, 'The Troubles' does not show up as a track in my iPhone's Music library, even after syncing, so the track can not be deleted. and the iPhone only lets you 'delete' or swipe-to-delete tracks on playlists. so I now have a U2 track permanently stuck on my iPhone.

even more maddeningly, when I try to side-swipe it, it just plays the track, and there's a click option beneath the track saying 'Show Complete Album' even after I have explicitly jumped through hoops trying to erase all traces of the record from my library.

so you're saying this album is musical kudzu

I am reminded of the scene in that Black Mirror episode where the television wall screen pauses the advertisements when you try to close your eyes during them, while playing a friendly reminder that you should open your eyes

I'll bet you anything if I accidentally hit that 'Show Complete Album' link, it restores the whole thing to my library permanently. as in, it shows up again, and when I go back to the Cloud, it's still hidden there so I can't redelete it.

Sorry to U2 fans! I hate it when people show up on a band's thread just to say that they kind of hate the band. But y'know what, there is no other band on that planet that would have the balls to agree to a deal where you weren't allowed to delete their work from your library.

oh i wouldn't assume that - most haven't been given the opportunity

yes

yes you are right

i don't really give a shit about u2 anymore and their hits are way overplayed but i do want to point out the brilliance of "lemon", that tune rules

that whole record is great. if they'd kept going with that and Passengers the U2 conversation would be very different today I think.

as it stands wtf is this shit in my iTunes?

Bono's lyrics are pretty bad, but more interesting than Chris Martin bad.
― Josh in Chicago

(xxxxp) I noticed that in the digital booklet all of the lyrics are credited to Bono and The Edge.

On the live concert film, Elevation 2001: Live from Boston, Bono introduces the song by explaining it was the last song Joey Ramone heard on his deathbed. He notes his honor of having one of his favorite musicians loving a song of his

Loving? It killed him, you egomaniac!

you're not fit to trim Bono's whiskers

http://pando.com/2014/09/11/apple-offends-music-critics-and-iphone-owners-alike-with-u2-album-assault/

http://www.newyorker.com/culture/sasha-frere-jones/u2s-forgettable-fire

I am MAD MAD MAD about this free music that can be removed in seconds.

"removed in seconds"

yeah, no shit

http://thequietus.com/articles/16217-bono-u2-songs-of-experience

I like specific angry takedowns like this better than mere lol U2. There are so many reasons to hate the band and Bono more than for the music.

well this album isn't too notable huh

"volcano" is the only memorable one so far

That piece is otm.

xp

well...

Face down on a pillow of shame
There are some girls with a needle trying to spell my name
My body’s not a canvas
My body’s now a toilet wall

Album is fine and forgettable. The last three should have all been EPs. Viva LA Vida was the last great U2 album. I'd blame the producers, but eno and lanois muffed the last one.

Songs of iNonsense

dying at this 5-star Fricke review

a song about imminent eruption, through a propulsive delirium of throaty, striding bass, alien-choral effects and the Edge's rusted-treble jolts of Gang of Four-vintage guitar.

Couldn't read past this. I imagined myself as Skylar White shouting "shut up shut UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP" at Fricke.

A FB friend of Mr Veg's wrote "It's their best album since Pop!" to which we were both like, ok that's a REALLY low bar.

that fking California song sounds like it's destined to be in a shitty middle-age Rom-Com within the next 2 years

The teenage Bono once gave her Kraftwerk's The Man-Machine as a gift while they were dating.

"Teenage Bono gave you that record, Adult Bono's gettin' it back!"

fricke review almost makes this worthwhile

I thought you guys were kidding about a five-star Fricke review. How'd I fool myself?

I didn't even want to read the review, but it just popped up in my email box this morning.

your neighbors overheard Fricke whispering, "Hee hee, this'll get Josh."

have you tried deleting it?

You can't.

What happened to Danger Mouse? Gorillaz & Gnarls productions were flawed and fun. This is slick and boring.

Considering the band has now worked with some 13 or so producers credited on their last three records, I've come to the conclusion that this all might just be the band's fault.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG4hOjJ9tEs

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/u2-songs-of-innocence-20140911

the photo's so perfect - larry looking up confused at the five stars, bono and the edge trying to walk past like they didn't see it, adam oblivious

Just find one of your own. Then shout as hard as you can.

Clickhole should republish that review verbatim.

When they release "Songs of Experience" in five years, I bet they retroactively bill half a billion people for their free download of "Songs of Innocence." Plus interest. Everyone will be like, what, I didn't download any U2 album! "Songs of Innocence," I've never heard of ... oh, wait, that thing? I totally forgot about that. My bad, just take my money, I'm sure it was good.

It is a clear-eyed and inspired U2 who crafted Songs of Innocence, an insuperably strong record that in time may well reveal itself to be a classic. World, meet U2, Irish band.

Fricke, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.

i can hardly read it for all the saliva

A FB friend of Mr Veg's wrote "It's their best album since Pop!" to which we were both like, ok that's a REALLY low bar.

ouch.

i happen to think that POP was their last really good album ..

That SFJ post is the glibbest, snarkiest thing I've ever seen from him. It's a weird thing to have on the New Yorker website.

You think the publisher brought Fricke into the office, poured a couple glasses of whisky, leaned over the table and said "I need you Fricke, I got a bad one here, worst yet, I need the old David Fricke review, I need your magic."

lol

bet it's more like "hey dave, new u2 album" "five?" "yup" "cool"

dude might not even bother with the star ratings himself, just pump out the copy and let someone else sweat where on the four-to-five spread this lands

I doubt he even pumps out the copy himself.

c'mon it's not a nancy drew novel, it's just seven paragraphs

Pump it out dave

U2 needs u

lol chr1sb3singer! bad U2 really brings ILX's funny to the fore.

confession - had to google the ref

Confession (Had to Google the Ref) - lyrics by Bono and the Edge / production by Dangermouse

ok.

forgive the noob (uk vs usa perhaps) groove, but all this inner circle joke thing is going over me.
but is there history between david fricke and u2 ?

i read the review, and even i found the review somewhat over zealous.

[ ftr : as a fan of achtung baby onwards, i think the album is ok. nothing more, nothing less.
hoping a few more listens may reveal its secrets more]

i wonder if there was just one guy in the boardroom that went 'uh.. guys.. '. he probably got shouted down left right and centre, and is now pulling his 'what did i tell you?!' face.

^ assuming you're talking about Rolling Stone here

is there history between david fricke and u2 ?

There's history between David Fricke and five-star bands

ahh.
he has form then.
fair enough.

At first listen this has a couple of solid cuts but the rest passed me by, kinda like how to dismantle an atomic bomb ended up for me. I think pop was actually pretty great and no line on the horizon was also really good except for the middle section. I imagine this will grow on me a bit since I generally like their sound but it'll also probably end up with HTDAAB and october and rattle & hum, which are basically the last ones I'd listen to in their discography at this point.

i agree with omar.

Carefully!

(is how you dismantle an atomic bomb)

RS' deal for years has been to give bands they want to do "exclusive" cover stories on a 5-star review -- hence the nutball writeups for the Who's It's Hard and whatever the fuck that Jagger solo thing was.

huh, beasties didn't get a cover in 2004. maybe fricke's 5 star of To The 5 Boroughs was a labor of love

I think sometimes RS does it to cover their asses just in case, cf. publishing a 5-star review of The Final Cut on the off chance it took off/Floyd toured that year.

same drill as Q in the mid-90s mega-selling era. hence Oasis' BHN getting 5 stars.

To be fair to Fricke he kind of gives 5 star reviews to everything. In his King Crimson live review he stopped just shy of calling the new line-up the greatest rock band that has ever existed.

ahh.
that said, is there anything wrong with loving music to that level.
people who know me IRL know that i flip from genre/band to genre/band on a daily basis declaring the latest groove to be the best ever.
i realise this a shallow take on the art, but so what.
a quick hit of momentary bliss is sometimes all you need to get you through the day to day grind.

all this fake surprise that U2 are shit

is there anything wrong with loving music to that level.

It's go nothing to do with love and everything to do with marketing.

how you dismantle an atomic bomb

I thought the answer was practice, practice, practice?

give it five stars

It's go nothing to do with love and everything to do with marketing.

ahh, such a cynic.

there are times i love my world of innocence and naivety.

(and my bills are paid by the world of marketing software - so i should be more attuned to such darkness !)

can't give it away

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/227923/u2s-free-album-downloaded-by-less-than-5-of-users/

Millions of people have U2 and don't even know it. Please: discuss U2 with your children. The more you know ...

The more you ignore them, the more annoying they get

It should be noted that they are practically at the Bridges To Babylon point in their career.

with BTB the better album

Well, yeah.

You'll never unmake a saint of Bono...

over 20, have never liked U2 - basically because I thought the music was boring. In the 80s, I found them overbearing and WAY TOO MUCH on the radio. After that, I found them one of those brands you simply have no feeling for because, hey, it's a brand. I actually did think it was interesting when they started embracing dance music/electronics, but more in a conceptual way than actually enjoying most of what they did.

Anyway, I won't have to deal with this until I get a new laptop, but I think more disturbing than the fact iTunes would work with U2 like this (which really isn't that surprising, unless the files' undeletability is true), is the 5-star review. I don't read RS, and haven't in a while, but imo that kind of endorsement smacks of a fairly obvious promotional tie-in. Do you believe these people (RS) think they're doing good work, or are they resigned to know all of this is part of the business as a whole, justifying it by saying they are speaking to/for their audience? The remark above about wanting to believe someone really loves music that much -- yeah people actually do love music that much, but considering the reaction from most of the world apart from David Fricke and RS, it's hardly cynical to see something like that as part of a marketing plan.

how do people get themselves into situations where they are plagued by marketing campaigns?

Those still holding regular reviewing gigs.

sounds horrible

This isn't in my iTunes or iPhone yet, what gives?

I'm sorry, I haven't really been paying attention and am now skimming. Is this true? Surely not...

have you tried deleting it?

― john wahey (NickB)

You can't.

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

yeah afaict the best you can do is hide it

https://twitter.com/AndyRichter/status/509701981053927424

no 'soused,' that's for sure. albini should have 'recorded' this

http://touch.dangerousminds.net/all/just_say_bo_no_mark_hosler_of_negativland_on_apples_u2rusion#1

nice, I just saw Negativland a couple of weeks ago and was wondering what their take on this was

http://itunes.com/soi-remove

http://i.imgur.com/1rpF20H.png

more like poo poo

It should be noted that they are practically at the Bridges To Babylon point in their career.

― You and Dad's Army? (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, September 11, 2014 3:15 PM (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

In purely chronological terms, they're pretty much exactly at that point.

Bono's as old as Mick was when Bridges to Babylon came out.

he's aging better.

Would love to see U2 enter a neon "Let's Work" period.

Fricke's review is the beginning of U2's Doodoo Lounge period:
http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/doodoo-lounge/Content?oid=885084

as this state of affairs continues, reviewers will be forced to make finer and finer distinctions to keep describing records as better than the last one but not as good as Some Girls. Mathematically, this recurring loop can be demonstrated thusly, where Some Girls is given a value of 1, its successor, Emotional Rescue, is arbitrarily assigned half that value, and each succeeding album is assigned half the value of its predecessor plus the total of all the fractions before it:

1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 + 1/32 .

While this progression is theoretically infinite, it may eventually strain the bounds of human journalism. It's possible reviewers will eventually agree that some future Stones album is better than Some Girls, and then compare it to the previous watershed, probably Exile on Main St. (As the quotations below demonstrate, this process may have already begun.) Exile will hold for a while, and then even earlier benchmarks (Beggar's Banquet, Aftermath) will be cited and then breeched. Finally, inevitably, England's Newest Hit Makers, the Stones' U.S. debut, will rise and ultimately fall in the face of their extraordinary continuing artistic growth. All of which can only mean one thing: the band's best work is ahead of them.

I feel like Eno should devise a series of Oblique Strategies exclusively for U2:

235. "Losing Your Edge"
14. Record in a room filled with money. Then record the sound of just the money. Then delete that recording and burn the money. Then record that.
72. Replace Larry with a machine. Then replace Adam and the Edge with a machine, too. Then replace Bono with a machine, but bring back the real Larry, Edge and Adam.
875. Cut your hair like Macklemore.
65. Wrap it in foil, stick it in the microwave, see what happens.
8777. Record an album in a week.

I feel like we can replace Eno with an Oblique Strategy.

Not really bothered about reading his U2 review or even listening to the album, but I'm just wondering... does David Fricke still have that haircut that makes his head look like the shape of the helmet of a penis?

Would be funny if one of the rhythm section decided to do a Bill Berry at this point. Maybe funnier if they actually carried on

Xpost at least as of a Robyn Hitchcock concert in manhattan a few years back, yes he does still have that haircut

Fricke looks like a cross between Johnny Ramone and Skeletor.

http://www.programmingthenation.com/production_stills/David_Fricke.jpg
"Five stars. You're welcome."

(To be fair, he always seems like a nice guy, and he's one of the few older critics who still goes out to shows all the time.)

Greates Marky Ramone tribute act ever

I dunno. Could also read that as the Greatest Tom Scholz tribute act ever.

Would be funny if one of the rhythm section decided to do a Bill Berry at this point. Maybe funnier if they actually carried on

― Master of Treacle, Tuesday, September 16, 2014 12:25 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think U2 could quite comfortably carry on if Adam Clayton left. Maybe less so if Larry Mullen left.

I think at this point they could carry on if they all left.

"Ladies and Gentlemen, HoloBono and the U2s!"

We are all U2, that is why they are called U2.

this is not "No Line on the Horizon" by U2

Indeed!

Anyway, I won't have to deal with this until I get a new laptop
― Dominique, Thursday, September 11, 2014 5:46 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^i really love this, the new U2 album as something you're gonna have to man up and face someday, like death and taxes

I thought I'd lost my mind during the 'ba ba barbara, santa barbara' part

does this album sound weird, or do iTunes files just sound bad?

so when I download the latest version of itunes this is gonna be in my library?

if you download it before Oct 13, yeah. I think so.

dud

ughhh it's on my ipod touch

Nelson Muntz should have been on the cover of this album, basically

You can miss it if you have automatic downloads turned off in iTunes, I think.

yeah I don't have that turned on (why would I want anything automatically from iTunes)

oh wait, there is a little cloud icon with an arrow, so i think it's in my library but i have to download it to get it? anyways this is so fucking stupid

It's on my wife's iPhone, she's never plugged it in to iTunes or ever synced it. It just appeared on her phone.

the album is now part of your default consciousness, and you only need to remember that you've heard it

My new perspective on this is that U2 is the perfect musical equivalent of Apple, so if you own an Apple product and use iTunes, you deserve to have a new U2 forced on you and are not allowed to complain about it.

complaining was cool last week. this week, it's cool to listen to the whole album and enjoy it.

it sounds like it was recorded in a glass bottle, it's so airless/dead sounding

complaining was cool last week. this week, it's cool to listen to the whole album and enjoy it.

That, my friend, will never be cool.

They should have given out Zooropa for free to help the global audience to one last chance to rediscover this gem and thus correct one of the great misjudgements in the history of human art.

http://www.whoisu2.com

They should have given out Zooropa for free to help the global audience to one last chance to rediscover this gem and thus correct one of the great misjudgements in the history of human art.

OTFM. It's amazing how many people I know (c. pre-nu-U2) like "everything but 'Zooropa," or got off the boat with "Zooropa." "Zooropa" is amazing. Even "Pop" is mostly good. I think what really bristles about this latest marketing gambit is that U2 is finally so rich and so powerful - which really didn't happen til the post nu-U2 era - that they can do whatever they want, and what they choose is ... whatever it takes to get more.

As a friend noted:

in the book 'U2 by U2', Bono says of The Unforgettable Fire, the band’s fourth album, “all we had to do was to keep doing what we were doing and we would have become the biggest band since Led Zeppelin.” And though Bono said they were “reapplying for the job of the best band in the world” in 2000 they have often substituted “biggest” for “best.”

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10599301_10152707347799214_8572691908702938605_n.jpg?oh=ec8debc3b5711692bdd81e180ebb64e4&oe=548BA421&__gda__=1422905812_cb5edaff3d10e2e4cb47b9be0793102a

Didn't realise Morten Harket was into U2 then. Subtle A-ha influence?

from the Torygraph

The Irish band’s 19-album back catalogue sold 6,744 copies in the last week ...based on data from then Official Charts Company. That compares with 697 sales the previous week. Almost all of the extra sales were digital downloads, with fewer than 60 U2 albums sold on the high street.

well there is the beautiful day / sun always shines on tv thing so... xp

nobody that likes their own music would behave in such a way

I know that the internet is filled within whining whiners who like to whine but all the complaining about a free album irritated me to no end. (I guess I am whining about this... Whatever.)

I got the album on my computer, listened once and (apparently unlike everyone else) had zero problem making it go away once I realized it was boring and I'd never listen to it again.

Yeah it's kind of incredible. I don't like it but I dunno I'll probably keep it just for shits & giggles

Not feeling the album so much, it's probs my least fave of theirs from what I can tell (disappointing bc NLOTH was really good and has some epic U2 jams) but it's an amazing troll effort.

hey look, free albumdog shit i threw into your front window! i think it's a useful case of tech company overreach because the intrusion is more personal. if you don't think tech is monitoring and selling everything it can around "you" to the highest bidder or you're ok with it because oh em gee it's so cool there's nothing to say really. it isn't about the thickness of u2 "the band" that makes "rock music" it's about the truthiness of this band being applied to current "benevolent" consumer ideology which relies on the maxim that you can't be ungrateful for or criticize something if it's free.

Very well put. That is one major aspect why I think it is odd some people find all the upheaval odd.

But the second one is the tech side - or rather, ethical side - of it: Apple showed a complete disrespect to its users personal digital space. Just days after the news broke that dozens of accounts had been compromised and had their private photos stolen, here comes Apple flipping you the finger, saying: "You know what? We can do it the other way around too! We'll put something in your personal cloud, something you didn't ask for, without your consent, and something you can't get rid of! And we'll break it to all our users as if they won the fucking lottery, haha!"

If you don't understand why people take issue with that, then I don't know what to tell you.

I know that the internet is filled within whining whiners who like to whine but all the complaining about a free album irritated me to no end. (I guess I am whining about this... Whatever.)

It's not a 'free album'. It's an album that is rammed down your throat. A real free album would be: go to apple.com/U2 and click download, and presto, you have a free album! It can only be a free album if you have the choice to grab it or not.
I don't care if people see this as anal or nitpicking. I didn't ask for a fucking U2 album being buried in my iCloud, taking up space, unable (at the time) to get rid of.

I get shit sent to me or pushed from Apple and a dozen other companies all the time. Apps on my machines, icons that pop up, things that disappear, new OS that supplants the old OS but does a worse job, etc. There are a dozen things I have no control over that Apple (and google and facebook and others) are changing or pushing or adding or taking away all the time. I think of the new U2 album no differently than I think of Apple maps or whatever, just another shitty app I won't use. If Apple really fucked up it's in not forcing people to listen to it from start to finish the first time their new iPhones are booted up.

For a company struggling to uphold that iCloud is secure to use for your private things, opening it up themselves and shitting a new U2 album in it is the dumbest thing to do. It is not the same as apps who push you stuff about software updates or whatever.

But aren't google, facebook, apple et al. constantly invading your privacy? Or threatening to? Or doing so without you even knowing it? They all have equally onerous terms of service. They know where you are, they know what you look at on the web, they send you targeted ads, etc.

I do admit the timing was absolutely terrible, in terms of doing this right after the iCloud was breached (though not hacked, Apple is quick to note!). Would have been perfect if there were Bono nudes in there.

if facebook automatically friended everyone with bono, would you be okay with that?

Yeah, I think Josh in Chicago is otm here in general. But with that said, I feel like it's usually some seemingly random thing that triggers public outrage about long-running, deep-seated issues. So even if it's kind of a trivial tip-of-the-iceberg, I feel like that's usually how these things go.

Bono owns 2.3% of Facebook. We are definitely all his friends.

it's not really invasion of privacy imo it's reconstitution of it along useful lines, like it was always a fuzzy concept to begin with, maybe important because it helped capitalism to happen, now it needs to be marshalled in a new way that tech is still figuring out how to do palatably, people will go along with it in the name of efficiency relevance and new market economics but when it starts to fuck with their moral emotional aesthetic sense of themselves that's when it goes too far and they get creeped out by this sense of being diffuse and subject to the control of obscure forces as if they ever aren't.

…which is why I can totally see why Apple didn't see this as a dumb move. It's hard to predict the things people will get outraged about, especially when there's all manner of "data-sharing" going on, both at the corporate level but also users willingly sharing their info.

Doesn't seem that hard to me: U2 shows up in my phone shuffle, and I hate them, so fuck you Apple and U2. The fact Apple had to enact a fix just to let me get rid of the songs = album is worse than spam. The thought process that just because it was free means I have no right to complain about it, or even be grateful, is very typical of large corporations. They have an agenda, they push it, they deal with the consequences later (presumably after the money has been made). In this case, it looks like even Apple/U2 knows they screwed up.

they deal with the consequences later (presumably after the money has been made)

i.e. there are no consequences

i mean there's recalibration sure via the wrong people getting punished.

x-post

from their perspective, none that matter nearly as much -- theoretical consequences like customer satisfaction, reputational loss don't usually stand in the way of big initiatives

oh my god you guys, U2 are on my spotify!

NO ESCAPE

they on my rdio, too!

they missed a trick IMO by not forcing this onto our devices & computers in Apple Lossless so that ppl who were making out their storage could be really fucked

U2 and Apple have beat us at our own game. In fact, their bravery has made us re-evaluate our position towards capitalism.

To reflect our admiration we are transitioning into a profit-based entity.

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<3_<3

How much to not get another U2 album?

applause xxp

I knew I bookmarked this thread for a reason

BanakaMouse

banaka my house

Let's be honest if it wasn't U2 and it wasn't shit even by their shitty standards, it wouldn't have pissed people off half as much.

Apple are proud to team up with Guns n' Roses

Dunno. If Vampire Weekend had done this, 95% of the world would have gone 'huh?', but those final five percent would have been FURIOUS.

I think it would have gone down badly (if not as widely publicized) for any band because you couldn't initially get rid of the files. I think it would have been fine for U2 had they just given users the option of downloading the thing, instead of attaching it to their libraries, borg-style. In a way, they're trailblazers in this, because they taught every other band what NOT to do.

loving everybody acting like extended family at christmas - "good lord, your nice cloud provider buys you a u2 album and all you can do is complain. you should be nicer to that conglomerate, or maybe next time they won't buy you anything."

why u hurt apple's feelings

They should've force fed the world a new Dr. Dre album. They already bought Dre anyway iirc.

I thought you could get rid of the files, but you just couldn't get rid of the 'purchased' label?

They should've force fed the world a new Dr. Dre album. They already bought Dre anyway iirc.

― ambient yacht god (Le Bateau Ivre

nah forget about Dre

Show some respect Alfred, he is - after all - still D.R.E.

re: “it isn’t a big deal—”

Apple isn’t Google or Facebook. 83-92% of Google’s revenue is advertising. Likewise, 88-94% of Facebook’s revenue is advertising. Less than 4% of Apple’s revenue is advertising. You can’t compare Apple with Google and Facebook when discussing privacy issues. They have completely different incentives.

I guess it is now back to Metallica's turn to do something so publicly obnoxious that people find even more reasons to hate the band, since Kiss, Kanye and U2 have had their say for this quarter.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/metallica-to-issue-27-live-albums-by-end-of-2014-20140917

In other Metallica news, the band recently set a Guinness World Record for touring, earning the distinction of being the first group to play all seven continents. "Seven continents in one year with Antarctica being the gig of a lifetime...." Frontman James Hetfield said in a statement earlier this month. "Yes, 120 scientists and competition winners. Not to mention the 300 very curious penguins!"

The Rose Programming Language
Language Reference
Rust language constructs have a very direct mapping to machine operations, and Rust has no required runtime or external dependencies.Syntax
Comments
# …
Multi-line comment
/*
 * …
 */
Nested comment
/*
 * /*
 * * …
 * */
 */
Literals

Type system
Type inference
Type signature
A type signature specifies an expression’s type.
: type
Usage
point: (Integer, Integer) ← (3, 2);
point is specified to have the product type (Integer, Integer).
subroutine increment(a: Integer) → Integer {
 …
 }
The parameter a to the function someFunction is specified to have the type Int.
Types
Bottom type
The bottom type is valueless. It’s the foundation of the type hierarchy.
⊥
Composite type
Composite {
 name1: type1,
 …,
 namen: typen
 } name;
Function type
type → type
Option type
type?
Primitive data type
Basic type
Array
An array is an indexed collection of elements.
⟨size × type⟩
Boolean
Character
Floating point
Integer
String
Product type
A product type is the product of other types.
(type1, …, typen)
Unit type
The unit type is the type whose value is the unit type.
()
Tagged union
Union {
 name1: type1,
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 namen: typen
 } name;
Top type
The top type is the type system’s universal type. It’s the peak of the type hierarchy.
⊤Expressions
Arithmetic
expression1 + expression2
 expression1 − expression2
 expression1 × expression2
 expression1 ÷ expression2
Assignment
expression ← value
Bitwise operation
Bit shifts
Constant
Array
⟨expression1, …, expressionn⟩
Usage
fruit ← ⟨“apple”, “banana”, “orange”⟩
Boolean
Character
‘…’
Floating point
100,000,000.000000001
Integer
100,000,000
String
“…”
Relational operator
expression1 = expression2
 expression1 ≠ expression2
 expression1 > expression2
 expression1 ≥ expression2
 expression1 ≤ expression2
Type conversion
Call
name(arguments)
Closure
(parameters) → type {
 statement1, …, statementn
return
 }
Interval
expression, …, expression
Iteration
Iterator
for (pattern in expression) {
 statement1, …, statementn
}
While loop
while (expression) {
 statement1, …, statementn
}
Selection
expressionexpression
Tuples
(expression1, …, expressionn)

Pattern matching
Constant
constant pattern
Expression
expression
Identifier
identifier
Tuple
(pattern1, …, patternn)
Wildcard
_Statements
A statement is a component of a block.
if (pattern) {
 statement1, …, statementn
} else {
 statement1, …, statementn
}
switch (expression) {
case pattern:
 statement1, …, statementn
default:
 statement1, …, statementn
}
Return statement
return expression;