― Mark (MarkR), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:25 (nineteen years ago) link
― cutty (mcutt), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:29 (nineteen years ago) link
It is an inherent indicator of relaxed, healthy singing. Vocal sound is produced by vibrating the folds of your vocal chords; vibrato is an inherent side-effect of the mechanism. Singing "without vibrato" is a technique whereby you clamp down on your chords and produce pitches while reducing the amount of motion made by your vocal chords, creating a tighter, thinner sound.
What are the emotional implications of vibrato v. non-vibrato?
In general, vibrato implies power and non-vibrato implies purity. The big trade-off between vibrato and straight-tone is that the lack of pitch variance makes straight-tone easier to tune but singing with vibrato will give you a larger, more commanding voice and allow you to sing for longer stretches of time and allow you to keep your voice longer.
Is it a genre-specific thing?
No. You can hear vibrato in many singers across every genre; it shows up the most in opera and oratorio because of the way those singers are trained but you can hear it in everyone from Clay Aiken to Scott Stapp to Dolly Parton to Amy Lee to Bruce Dickinson to Ella Fitzgerald.
What is its history?
See the answer to the first question; also, a lot of "early" music is sung straight-tone because the boy soprano sound tends to be very light on vibrato, largely because the vocal chords are small and not yet fully developed, meaning there's less material in there to flap around and generate vibrato.
When does vibrato work for you, and when it does it not?
Heavy operatic vibrato doesn't work for a lot of pop music because pop music doesn't ask you to sing over an orchestra without a microphone. Conversely, you would not be able to hear classical soloists without it because unless they're singing with a baroque chamber orchestra, they will be drowned out because you can't power straight-tone over that large an ensemble.
Who wouldn't sound right without vibrato?
Most women don't sound right without vibrato; they osound like pinched little boys. Straight-tone in general sounds really harsh and cutting without lots and lots of reverb (which is probably why so many cathedral musicians prefer it to vibrato, particularly for ensemble singing).
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:40 (nineteen years ago) link
Questions inspired by listening to Vashti Bunyon and thinking about Joan Baez. Also thinking about how indie singers in general shun vibrato (no training, looks like) and what that means for the tone of the music. Great analysis Dan, thank you.
― Mark (MarkR), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:50 (nineteen years ago) link
CORDS dammit
― i love scotch, scotchy scotch scotch (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ken L (Ken L), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:56 (nineteen years ago) link
I am also v. jealous of vibrato because I can't do it at ALL.
― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:40 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:44 (nineteen years ago) link
I'm a horrible singer, just so that's clear, but Dan makes me want to take voice lessons.
― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:45 (nineteen years ago) link
It depends on how you're doing your falsetto; most normal falsetto singing is going to be straighter in tone because falsetto singing is (WARNING GROSS OVERSIMPLIFICATION AHED) pretty much using half of your vocal chords to produce tone. You can reach higher notes because you have much less material to vibrate (this is also why most women's voices are higher than most men's voices). On the flip side, the more open and resonant the space you're vocalizing in, the more likely your voice is to pick up vibrato; my "countertenor" imitation is way warmer-sounding and vibrato-ey than my "sqeauky mutant soprano" imitation.
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 March 2005 17:58 (nineteen years ago) link
If, as Dan says, "singing with vibrato will give you a larger, more commanding voice," then it strikes me that it would alter the balance between singer and band. Indie generally derives its power, I think, by setting up a struggle between the instruments (esp. guitars) and vocals -- the trick being to keep the guitar sound as big & prominent as possible at least partly by keeping vocals relatively low in the mix. That way it sounds like the singer is doing his all to be heard over this mass of guitar. I may be wrong, but it sounds like vibrato would have the effect of making the band sound comparatively smaller.
― Derek Krissoff (Derek), Monday, 21 March 2005 18:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― jones (actual), Monday, 21 March 2005 18:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― jones (actual), Monday, 21 March 2005 18:51 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 21 March 2005 18:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ken L (Ken L), Monday, 21 March 2005 19:00 (nineteen years ago) link
vibrato = the natural oscillation inherent in the production a pitch.
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 March 2005 19:02 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ken L (Ken L), Monday, 21 March 2005 19:11 (nineteen years ago) link
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 21 March 2005 22:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 March 2005 22:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― darin (darin), Monday, 21 March 2005 22:48 (nineteen years ago) link
Most singers who learn to use vibrato (which implies learning some form of vocal technique) discover that they can for longer stretches of time before getting tired and that their voices become more reliable and more predictable regardless of their overall health (ie, you can sing through colds and laryngitis), plus they have more control over what their voice is doing. Because of all of this, they are loathe to go back to the way they sang before but if for some reason they wanted to go back to their low stamina voice-shredding bad habits, they can.
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 March 2005 23:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― i love scotch, scotchy scotch scotch (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 21 March 2005 23:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― darin (darin), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― i love scotch, scotchy scotch scotch (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:08 (nineteen years ago) link
― darin (darin), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― i love scotch, scotchy scotch scotch (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― darin (darin), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:22 (nineteen years ago) link
― m0stly clean (m0stly clean), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:31 (nineteen years ago) link
― i love scotch, scotchy scotch scotch (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:39 (nineteen years ago) link
1. Be a baritone.2. Yawn. Feel the open space in the back of your mouth? Try to hold that feeling/position in your head as you sing.3. Keep the corners of your mouth in as you sing; form your vowels vertically rather than horizontally.4. Be crestfallen that you don't really sound like Barry White.
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 01:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 01:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― xenografia, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 01:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― jones (actual), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 01:19 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 13:02 (nineteen years ago) link
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 25 March 2005 09:28 (nineteen years ago) link
i'm always fascinated by vibrato, or the lack of it. yep
― Surmounter, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 18:29 (fifteen years ago) link
like judy garland's vibrato is really soothing. but i don't always love beyonce's vibrato.
― Surmounter, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 18:30 (fifteen years ago) link
people suck at using vibrato these days IMO
bring it back
― fight the real NME (Curt1s Stephens), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 18:32 (fifteen years ago) link
Also, try to avoid tension in your jaw (aka DON'T DO WHAT I DO ARGH)
sigh, 4 years later I still have the same issues
― BADGES DON'T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO WALTZ OFF WITH A BABY (HI DERE), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 18:35 (fifteen years ago) link
I think this is a resonance/technique issue; Judy Garland has a very warm voice compared to Beyonce, so her vibrato will come across as more relaxed and elegant.
― BADGES DON'T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO WALTZ OFF WITH A BABY (HI DERE), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 18:38 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah... it seems like beyonce doesn't always let her vibrato do what it wants to, comfortably
― Surmounter, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 18:44 (fifteen years ago) link
you know, the warmth of judy's voice is so neat. i can feel the heat!
― Surmounter, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 18:45 (fifteen years ago) link
re: relative lack of vibrato in indie - looks like this question upthread wasn't fully addressed
I think it goes back to what Dan was saying about early music and straight tone singing connoting purity, and by extension lack of affectation. I could be totally mis-remembering music history, but vibrato was seen as having a sensual, thus sinful quality and for a while wasn't accepted in religious music.
I don't think the lack of vibrato in indie has anything to do with instrument balance and is mainly about seeming unaffected or untrained, thus more "authentic," especially compared to the pop/R&B aesthetic that is built on vibrato and other vocal affectations.
― unexpected item in bagging area (sarahel), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 20:35 (fifteen years ago) link
martin gore to thread!
― rio (r1o natsume), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:12 (fifteen years ago) link
btw I knew it would be Surmounter who bumped this
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:17 (fifteen years ago) link
! you
― Surmounter, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:18 (fifteen years ago) link
More threads like this please.
― ecuador_with_a_c, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:20 (fifteen years ago) link
can someone start fuckin with vibrato in 2009 for youtube/ilx?
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:24 (fifteen years ago) link
please do that, plaxique. i would post things
― Surmounter, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:25 (fifteen years ago) link
jane siberry talking about kd lang's vibrato and stuff:
We were in separate booths, but something wasn't quite happening, so we stood together in the middle of the room. It was that physical-presence thing. She has a wide vibrato, and as we stood close we could see into each other's eyes as we sang. Looking at someone while you work has that feeling about it as with lovers. Finally, the engineer said, "Cool it with the vibrato! We're starting to feel seasick in here." About two weeks later, I was singing on my own and my vibrato started to get really wide. I think just by standing near her, her whole system was teaching me something that I needed to know.
― iro with the brown bag (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:37 (fifteen years ago) link
That's a pretty common thing to have happen, particularly when dealing with singers who listen and blend; there's really nothing quite like matching vibratos with someone.
― BADGES DON'T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO WALTZ OFF WITH A BABY (HI DERE), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:39 (fifteen years ago) link
how come you know all this stuff?
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:41 (fifteen years ago) link
he smart, educated.
there's nothing like matching vibratos is RIGHT
― Surmounter, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:42 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm assuming their talking about Calling all angels?
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:43 (fifteen years ago) link
it's because he has sung with vince gill
― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:45 (fifteen years ago) link
and martina fuckin mcbride
― Surmounter, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:45 (fifteen years ago) link
Also, I'm really interested in this now, like I don't really get the physics of how it makes your voice louder or even where it originates from in the voice.
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:46 (fifteen years ago) link
its not the loudness of your voice, its the width of your vibrato
― iro with the brown bag (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:48 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.pollstar.com/filestorage/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/pollstar/0811090438076721480_2496_v1.jpg
http://www.smithmag.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/ElvisC.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02QMbmo6cFdIj/340x.jpg
― Naive Teen Idol, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:48 (fifteen years ago) link
I don't really get the physics of how it makes your voice louder or even where it originates from in the voice.
as I understand it, the sound is resonating in a larger space inside your mouth/throat, thus more sound is produced. Sometimes it ends up picking up or being influenced by the harmonics of the room, at least it does/did for me, before I started smoking a pack a day and quit singing.
― unexpected item in bagging area (sarahel), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:54 (fifteen years ago) link
That's pretty much it, from what I know; more space = more amplitude = more volume.
I've been singing professionally since 1991. (Note that really the only enduring thing of note that I've done is sing in a chorus on the "Mystic River" soundtrack on songs where you can't actually tell a 60-voice chorus is singing along with the orchestra; this was the same group who did "Saving Private Ryan" the year before I joined.)
― BADGES DON'T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO WALTZ OFF WITH A BABY (HI DERE), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 22:08 (fifteen years ago) link
keep thinking about this thread whilst listening to the Dirty Projectors, like the guy is this weird mix of indie shoutiness and strangely skilled, on those opening lines of rise above where the vibrato suddenly swings out of straight notes esp.
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Wednesday, 15 April 2009 11:56 (fifteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IL4nX5r71M
dunno if this is the right thread for this, I think it is, but looking for more instances of this thing bobby caldwell does sometimes like in this track where he sort of...emulates a delay I guess? but manually, with his voice
― Florin Cuchares, Saturday, 22 July 2023 07:01 (nine months ago) link
like there is absolutely straight up delay on the vocal as well, but particularly on the second verse it sounds he is just doing it himself like some kind of rare genius
― Florin Cuchares, Saturday, 22 July 2023 07:05 (nine months ago) link
may also be mixing up delay and reverb? I dunno I'm a drummer
― Florin Cuchares, Saturday, 22 July 2023 07:11 (nine months ago) link
No it’s delay! Horace Andy does this too
― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 22 July 2023 08:29 (nine months ago) link
Jacob Miller too...
― m0stly clean (Slowsquatch), Saturday, 22 July 2023 11:24 (nine months ago) link
yes thank you that's pretty much exactly what I mean, I know very little about reggae but is this basically the invention of dub? like oh wait, we could just feed everything thru a delay pedal
― Florin Cuchares, Sunday, 23 July 2023 09:18 (nine months ago) link
No. Sounds like he's mostly trying for a Barry Gibb thing but the last line of the song he definitely mimics delay.
― John Donne In Concert (Tom D.), Sunday, 23 July 2023 09:49 (nine months ago) link
yes! barry gibb absolutely, to be clear not advancing the theory that bobby caldwell invented dub, was in reference to horace andy, like was dub something that emerged from some reggae singers doing this in the 70s and then guitar players wanted to do that too
― Florin Cuchares, Sunday, 23 July 2023 10:11 (nine months ago) link
The other way round.
― John Donne In Concert (Tom D.), Sunday, 23 July 2023 10:23 (nine months ago) link
That reminds me that I was listening to Moby Grape recently and Peter Lewis does a kind of tremeloed thing with his voice on some songs...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adF3Lc-g5Ac
― John Donne In Concert (Tom D.), Sunday, 23 July 2023 10:26 (nine months ago) link
... tremolo or vibrato or whatever. Seems like something singers did in the 60s? I don't know if Donovan did it first but I associate it most with him...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR8k8jpT3tw
― John Donne In Concert (Tom D.), Sunday, 23 July 2023 10:29 (nine months ago) link
love that the cat. # of the bobby caldwell LP in the youtube embed is POOP 20240
― budo jeru, Sunday, 23 July 2023 16:57 (nine months ago) link