Let's talk about vocal vibrato

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Why is it used? What are the emotional implications of vibrato v. non-vibrato? Is it a genre-specific thing? What is its history? When does vibrato work for you, and when it does it not? Who wouldn't sound right without vibrato?

Mark (MarkR), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:25 (nineteen years ago) link

brian ferry and billy mackenzie to thread.

cutty (mcutt), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:29 (nineteen years ago) link

Why is it used?

It is an inherent indicator of relaxed, healthy singing. Vocal sound is produced by vibrating the folds of your vocal chords; vibrato is an inherent side-effect of the mechanism. Singing "without vibrato" is a technique whereby you clamp down on your chords and produce pitches while reducing the amount of motion made by your vocal chords, creating a tighter, thinner sound.

What are the emotional implications of vibrato v. non-vibrato?

In general, vibrato implies power and non-vibrato implies purity. The big trade-off between vibrato and straight-tone is that the lack of pitch variance makes straight-tone easier to tune but singing with vibrato will give you a larger, more commanding voice and allow you to sing for longer stretches of time and allow you to keep your voice longer.

Is it a genre-specific thing?

No. You can hear vibrato in many singers across every genre; it shows up the most in opera and oratorio because of the way those singers are trained but you can hear it in everyone from Clay Aiken to Scott Stapp to Dolly Parton to Amy Lee to Bruce Dickinson to Ella Fitzgerald.

What is its history?

See the answer to the first question; also, a lot of "early" music is sung straight-tone because the boy soprano sound tends to be very light on vibrato, largely because the vocal chords are small and not yet fully developed, meaning there's less material in there to flap around and generate vibrato.

When does vibrato work for you, and when it does it not?

Heavy operatic vibrato doesn't work for a lot of pop music because pop music doesn't ask you to sing over an orchestra without a microphone. Conversely, you would not be able to hear classical soloists without it because unless they're singing with a baroque chamber orchestra, they will be drowned out because you can't power straight-tone over that large an ensemble.

Who wouldn't sound right without vibrato?

Most women don't sound right without vibrato; they osound like pinched little boys. Straight-tone in general sounds really harsh and cutting without lots and lots of reverb (which is probably why so many cathedral musicians prefer it to vibrato, particularly for ensemble singing).

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:40 (nineteen years ago) link

I was hoping Dan would see this thread.

Questions inspired by listening to Vashti Bunyon and thinking about Joan Baez. Also thinking about how indie singers in general shun vibrato (no training, looks like) and what that means for the tone of the music. Great analysis Dan, thank you.

Mark (MarkR), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:50 (nineteen years ago) link

vocal chords

CORDS dammit

i love scotch, scotchy scotch scotch (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:52 (nineteen years ago) link

Sorry my fingers dumm after only one cup of coffe.e

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Jody's post reminds me of the story in All You Need Is Ears when John Lennon asked if he could record his vocals using DI (Direct Injection) and George Martin told him something like "Yes John, if we stick a wire in your throat."

Ken L (Ken L), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:56 (nineteen years ago) link

I like a WELL-CONTROLLED vibrato, like when singers (especially jazz singers) hold a straight tone and just bring in the vibrato near the end of the note.

I am also v. jealous of vibrato because I can't do it at ALL.

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:23 (nineteen years ago) link

Dan's simplistic key to achieving vibrato = relax you throat as you sing and make sure you're always supporting the tone all the way from your feet to your diaphragm. Also, try to place the tone in the resonant mask of your face (ie, the sinus triangle) and keep your tongue forward to create an echo chamber for your voice to spin.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Also, try to avoid tension in your jaw (aka DON'T DO WHAT I DO ARGH).

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:43 (nineteen years ago) link

This thread reminds me: FUCK JOAN BAEZ. Her vibrato sounds so wrong, like she has a vibrator lodged in her throat or something.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:43 (nineteen years ago) link

But what about Kate Bush?

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:44 (nineteen years ago) link

I have problems with tension in my jaw even when I'm not singing. :(

I'm a horrible singer, just so that's clear, but Dan makes me want to take voice lessons.

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:45 (nineteen years ago) link

Dan, is it harder to do vibrato when you're in falsetto? I think about this when listening to Thom Yorke.

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:45 (nineteen years ago) link

Dan, is it harder to do vibrato when you're in falsetto? I think about this when listening to Thom Yorke.

It depends on how you're doing your falsetto; most normal falsetto singing is going to be straighter in tone because falsetto singing is (WARNING GROSS OVERSIMPLIFICATION AHED) pretty much using half of your vocal chords to produce tone. You can reach higher notes because you have much less material to vibrate (this is also why most women's voices are higher than most men's voices). On the flip side, the more open and resonant the space you're vocalizing in, the more likely your voice is to pick up vibrato; my "countertenor" imitation is way warmer-sounding and vibrato-ey than my "sqeauky mutant soprano" imitation.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 March 2005 17:58 (nineteen years ago) link

On the lack of vibrato singing in most indie:

If, as Dan says, "singing with vibrato will give you a larger, more commanding voice," then it strikes me that it would alter the balance between singer and band. Indie generally derives its power, I think, by setting up a struggle between the instruments (esp. guitars) and vocals -- the trick being to keep the guitar sound as big & prominent as possible at least partly by keeping vocals relatively low in the mix. That way it sounds like the singer is doing his all to be heard over this mass of guitar. I may be wrong, but it sounds like vibrato would have the effect of making the band sound comparatively smaller.

Derek Krissoff (Derek), Monday, 21 March 2005 18:41 (nineteen years ago) link

i'm trying to do what dan describes but it doesn't sound like vibrato :(

jones (actual), Monday, 21 March 2005 18:50 (nineteen years ago) link

hey the tongue trick is good tho!! singing lessons must be fun

jones (actual), Monday, 21 March 2005 18:51 (nineteen years ago) link

As I'm listening to T. Rex now, is what Marc Bolan does, technically speaking, vibrato or is it something else?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 21 March 2005 18:52 (nineteen years ago) link

Is this the thread were I can reveal my naivete and ask someone to school me in the difference between tremolo and vibrato?

Ken L (Ken L), Monday, 21 March 2005 19:00 (nineteen years ago) link

tremolo = someone placing a finger on a string/pitch-bender and wiggling it back and forth to get a trembling, oscillating pitch.

vibrato = the natural oscillation inherent in the production a pitch.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 March 2005 19:02 (nineteen years ago) link

Thanks, Dan. Here is a website with some pictures of the difference, with a slightly different definition of tremolo

Ken L (Ken L), Monday, 21 March 2005 19:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, tremolo is an oscillation of volume, not pitch. The "tremolo arm" on a guitar is a misnomer, if that's what you're thinking of.

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 21 March 2005 22:34 (nineteen years ago) link

That's totally what I was thinking of, although Merriam-Webster appears to agree with my misconception (and I do think it's a misconception on my part).

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 March 2005 22:37 (nineteen years ago) link

It seems to me, that when most singers learn to use vibrato it's nearly impossible for them to quit using it. Is there any truth behind this half-assed observation of mine?

darin (darin), Monday, 21 March 2005 22:48 (nineteen years ago) link

No.

Most singers who learn to use vibrato (which implies learning some form of vocal technique) discover that they can for longer stretches of time before getting tired and that their voices become more reliable and more predictable regardless of their overall health (ie, you can sing through colds and laryngitis), plus they have more control over what their voice is doing. Because of all of this, they are loathe to go back to the way they sang before but if for some reason they wanted to go back to their low stamina voice-shredding bad habits, they can.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 March 2005 23:52 (nineteen years ago) link

vibrato = tantric sex

i love scotch, scotchy scotch scotch (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 21 March 2005 23:58 (nineteen years ago) link

Haha, yeah basically! Why would you go back to four minutes of fun when you can have four hours?

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, one would think that the singer would occasionally crave the aesthetic results of singing sans vibrato.

darin (darin), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:07 (nineteen years ago) link

why is one better than the other?

i love scotch, scotchy scotch scotch (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:08 (nineteen years ago) link

Depends on the material they're given, doesn't it?

darin (darin), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:10 (nineteen years ago) link

well, yeah.

i love scotch, scotchy scotch scotch (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:10 (nineteen years ago) link

TURN UP THE LFO YO.

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Haha... this conversation has lead me to picturing Bruce Dickinson covering Iron & Wine songs.

darin (darin), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:21 (nineteen years ago) link

The important thing about singing isn't really vibrato vs non-vibrato (a lot of early music people make this same mistake); it's about convincingly singing the style you're given with the voice you have. It's much more about not singing a pop song like a Verdi opera than it is about singing with vibrato vs singing straight-tone (and anyone straight-tone singing on pop songs would sound just as affected and wrong; it's more about trained vs untrained).

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:22 (nineteen years ago) link

The "tremolo arm" on a guitar is a misnomer
damn straight. the proper term is "whammy bar".
also, this is a very informative thread.
also, ghost of dan perry, how can i sing like barry white?

m0stly clean (m0stly clean), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:31 (nineteen years ago) link

this thread reminds me of a point i always make whenever someone gets all WHY DO ALL THESE BANDS HAVE TO RIP OFF THE VELVET UNDERGROUND, the answer to which is, the bands are as original as any other artists who use the tropes of particular styles; they're making music within a framework. newspapers are formally very similar; they all more or less look alike and have the same basic aesthetic premise, but you wouldn't call the new orleans times-picayune a blatant ripoff of the sacramento bee, would you? people who make things make informed choices about how they want to make them.

i love scotch, scotchy scotch scotch (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:39 (nineteen years ago) link

HOW TO SING LIKE BARRY WHITE:

1. Be a baritone.
2. Yawn. Feel the open space in the back of your mouth? Try to hold that feeling/position in your head as you sing.
3. Keep the corners of your mouth in as you sing; form your vowels vertically rather than horizontally.
4. Be crestfallen that you don't really sound like Barry White.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 01:07 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't think you should try and sound like Barry White if that just ain't your shtick. But if you were to try to sound like him, pronounce that last word "stick."

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 01:12 (nineteen years ago) link

i cant believe nobody has mentioned Beyonce! Girl's got vibrato!

xenografia, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 01:13 (nineteen years ago) link

DAN TAKE MY MONEY AND GIVE ME SINGING LESSONS PLEASE

jones (actual), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 01:19 (nineteen years ago) link

Haha my wife is way more qualified tan I am, seeing as she actually has a vocal performance degree!

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 13:02 (nineteen years ago) link

Dan, I've found your basic technique suggestions on this thread extremely helpful. Thanks.

sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 25 March 2005 09:28 (nineteen years ago) link

four years pass...

i'm always fascinated by vibrato, or the lack of it. yep

Surmounter, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 18:29 (fifteen years ago) link

like judy garland's vibrato is really soothing. but i don't always love beyonce's vibrato.

Surmounter, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 18:30 (fifteen years ago) link

people suck at using vibrato these days IMO

bring it back

fight the real NME (Curt1s Stephens), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 18:32 (fifteen years ago) link

Also, try to avoid tension in your jaw (aka DON'T DO WHAT I DO ARGH)

sigh, 4 years later I still have the same issues

BADGES DON'T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO WALTZ OFF WITH A BABY (HI DERE), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 18:35 (fifteen years ago) link

like judy garland's vibrato is really soothing. but i don't always love beyonce's vibrato.

I think this is a resonance/technique issue; Judy Garland has a very warm voice compared to Beyonce, so her vibrato will come across as more relaxed and elegant.

BADGES DON'T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO WALTZ OFF WITH A BABY (HI DERE), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 18:38 (fifteen years ago) link

yeah... it seems like beyonce doesn't always let her vibrato do what it wants to, comfortably

Surmounter, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 18:44 (fifteen years ago) link

you know, the warmth of judy's voice is so neat. i can feel the heat!

Surmounter, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 18:45 (fifteen years ago) link

re: relative lack of vibrato in indie - looks like this question upthread wasn't fully addressed

I think it goes back to what Dan was saying about early music and straight tone singing connoting purity, and by extension lack of affectation. I could be totally mis-remembering music history, but vibrato was seen as having a sensual, thus sinful quality and for a while wasn't accepted in religious music.

I don't think the lack of vibrato in indie has anything to do with instrument balance and is mainly about seeming unaffected or untrained, thus more "authentic," especially compared to the pop/R&B aesthetic that is built on vibrato and other vocal affectations.

unexpected item in bagging area (sarahel), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 20:35 (fifteen years ago) link

martin gore to thread!

rio (r1o natsume), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:12 (fifteen years ago) link

btw I knew it would be Surmounter who bumped this

Plaxico (I know, right?), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:17 (fifteen years ago) link

! you

Surmounter, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:18 (fifteen years ago) link

More threads like this please.

ecuador_with_a_c, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:20 (fifteen years ago) link

can someone start fuckin with vibrato in 2009 for youtube/ilx?

Plaxico (I know, right?), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:24 (fifteen years ago) link

please do that, plaxique. i would post things

Surmounter, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:25 (fifteen years ago) link

jane siberry talking about kd lang's vibrato and stuff:

We were in separate booths, but something wasn't quite happening, so we stood together in the middle of the room. It was that physical-presence thing. She has a wide vibrato, and as we stood close we could see into each other's eyes as we sang. Looking at someone while you work has that feeling about it as with lovers. Finally, the engineer said, "Cool it with the vibrato! We're starting to feel seasick in here." About two weeks later, I was singing on my own and my vibrato started to get really wide. I think just by standing near her, her whole system was teaching me something that I needed to know.

iro with the brown bag (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:37 (fifteen years ago) link

That's a pretty common thing to have happen, particularly when dealing with singers who listen and blend; there's really nothing quite like matching vibratos with someone.

BADGES DON'T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO WALTZ OFF WITH A BABY (HI DERE), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:39 (fifteen years ago) link

how come you know all this stuff?

Plaxico (I know, right?), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:41 (fifteen years ago) link

he smart, educated.

there's nothing like matching vibratos is RIGHT

Surmounter, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:42 (fifteen years ago) link

I'm assuming their talking about Calling all angels?

Plaxico (I know, right?), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:43 (fifteen years ago) link

it's because he has sung with vince gill

Ømår Littel (Jordan), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:45 (fifteen years ago) link

and martina fuckin mcbride

Surmounter, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:45 (fifteen years ago) link

Also, I'm really interested in this now, like I don't really get the physics of how it makes your voice louder or even where it originates from in the voice.

Plaxico (I know, right?), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:46 (fifteen years ago) link

its not the loudness of your voice, its the width of your vibrato

iro with the brown bag (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:48 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't really get the physics of how it makes your voice louder or even where it originates from in the voice.

as I understand it, the sound is resonating in a larger space inside your mouth/throat, thus more sound is produced. Sometimes it ends up picking up or being influenced by the harmonics of the room, at least it does/did for me, before I started smoking a pack a day and quit singing.

unexpected item in bagging area (sarahel), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 21:54 (fifteen years ago) link

That's pretty much it, from what I know; more space = more amplitude = more volume.

how come you know all this stuff?

I've been singing professionally since 1991. (Note that really the only enduring thing of note that I've done is sing in a chorus on the "Mystic River" soundtrack on songs where you can't actually tell a 60-voice chorus is singing along with the orchestra; this was the same group who did "Saving Private Ryan" the year before I joined.)

BADGES DON'T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO WALTZ OFF WITH A BABY (HI DERE), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 22:08 (fifteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...

keep thinking about this thread whilst listening to the Dirty Projectors, like the guy is this weird mix of indie shoutiness and strangely skilled, on those opening lines of rise above where the vibrato suddenly swings out of straight notes esp.

Plaxico (I know, right?), Wednesday, 15 April 2009 11:56 (fifteen years ago) link

fourteen years pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IL4nX5r71M

dunno if this is the right thread for this, I think it is, but looking for more instances of this thing bobby caldwell does sometimes like in this track where he sort of...emulates a delay I guess? but manually, with his voice

Florin Cuchares, Saturday, 22 July 2023 07:01 (nine months ago) link

like there is absolutely straight up delay on the vocal as well, but particularly on the second verse it sounds he is just doing it himself like some kind of rare genius

Florin Cuchares, Saturday, 22 July 2023 07:05 (nine months ago) link

may also be mixing up delay and reverb? I dunno I'm a drummer

Florin Cuchares, Saturday, 22 July 2023 07:11 (nine months ago) link

No it’s delay! Horace Andy does this too

Tracer Hand, Saturday, 22 July 2023 08:29 (nine months ago) link

Jacob Miller too...

m0stly clean (Slowsquatch), Saturday, 22 July 2023 11:24 (nine months ago) link

yes thank you that's pretty much exactly what I mean, I know very little about reggae but is this basically the invention of dub? like oh wait, we could just feed everything thru a delay pedal

Florin Cuchares, Sunday, 23 July 2023 09:18 (nine months ago) link

No. Sounds like he's mostly trying for a Barry Gibb thing but the last line of the song he definitely mimics delay.

John Donne In Concert (Tom D.), Sunday, 23 July 2023 09:49 (nine months ago) link

yes! barry gibb absolutely, to be clear not advancing the theory that bobby caldwell invented dub, was in reference to horace andy, like was dub something that emerged from some reggae singers doing this in the 70s and then guitar players wanted to do that too

Florin Cuchares, Sunday, 23 July 2023 10:11 (nine months ago) link

The other way round.

John Donne In Concert (Tom D.), Sunday, 23 July 2023 10:23 (nine months ago) link

That reminds me that I was listening to Moby Grape recently and Peter Lewis does a kind of tremeloed thing with his voice on some songs...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adF3Lc-g5Ac

John Donne In Concert (Tom D.), Sunday, 23 July 2023 10:26 (nine months ago) link

... tremolo or vibrato or whatever. Seems like something singers did in the 60s? I don't know if Donovan did it first but I associate it most with him...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR8k8jpT3tw

John Donne In Concert (Tom D.), Sunday, 23 July 2023 10:29 (nine months ago) link

love that the cat. # of the bobby caldwell LP in the youtube embed is POOP 20240

budo jeru, Sunday, 23 July 2023 16:57 (nine months ago) link


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