Black Sabbath: Classic or Dud?

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What is this/ that stands befo-ooooooore me?

Astonishingly, this would appear never to have been done before!

For my part, classic beyond all other definitions of the word classic for the first six albums alone.

The guy on Channel 4's Heavy Metal Top 10 all those years ago who said that the song Black Sabbath "begins, invents and defines heavy metal - everything else is just interpretation" was so OTM!

But this thread is intended for the discussion of Black Sabbath the band, not just the song...

M Carty (mj_c), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 13:19 (9 years ago) Permalink

It's probably never been done before because, clearly, it goes without saying: BLACK SABBATH = CLASSIC

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 13:27 (9 years ago) Permalink

Very true, that is perhaps the most incontrovertible fact in all of music.

M Carty (mj_c), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 13:32 (9 years ago) Permalink

Ridiculously classic (up until Ozzy left anyway.)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 13:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

I mean, it's probably very naive of me to say this, but I can't imagine anyone saying "dud" to (classic, vintage-line-up) Black Sabbath. I mean, even if it wasn't quite your cup of tea, you must admit that they excelled at their particular art.

Later, post-Born Again-era Sabs? Eh, not so much.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 13:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

Heaven & Hell = just as classic as the Ozzy years.

Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 13:37 (9 years ago) Permalink

It also seems like their most Led Zep-ish album, which is not a bad thing.

Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 13:37 (9 years ago) Permalink

I can't imagine anyone saying "dud" to (classic, vintage-line-up) Black Sabbath

except for the classic, vintage lineup's last couple albums. technical ecstasy, anyone? anyone???

fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 13:54 (9 years ago) Permalink

I'll stand by Never Say Die.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 13:56 (9 years ago) Permalink

Incontrovertibly classic. Funny I was just wondering this morning who'd win in a taking sides, Zeppelin or Sabbath? Maybe that's something to ponder, because who doesn't worship Sabbath?

steve hise, Wednesday, 27 October 2004 13:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

Funny I was just wondering this morning who'd win in a taking sides, Zeppelin or Sabbath?

There's a thread in the archive on this very subject.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 13:58 (9 years ago) Permalink

In fact there are (sorta) two:

Taking sides : Zeppelin or Sabbath

Taking Sides: Led Zeppelin Vol. 4 vs. Black Sabbath Vol.4

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:00 (9 years ago) Permalink

Damn Ned, thanks, that was interesting.

Anyways one of the best love songs of all time is "Sweet Leaf."

steve hise, Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

Classic beyond classic. I can't imagine what almost any modern loud rock music (good or bad) would sound like without their influence.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:21 (9 years ago) Permalink

Black Sabbath (Warner Bros. '70) "The worst of the counterculture on a plastic platter - bullshit necromancy, drug-impaired reaction time, long solos, everything"....."Original grade: E. C-

robert christgau

elrod hendrix, Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:25 (9 years ago) Permalink

he just listed some of the reasons people LIKE them.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:29 (9 years ago) Permalink

This is like voting over and over and still being unsure your vote has been counted. I don't know anyone who would answer 'dud.'

57 7th (calstars), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:33 (9 years ago) Permalink

well, xgau.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

The worst of the counterculture on a plastic platter - bullshit necromancy, drug-impaired reaction time, long solos, everything"

yeah, he just made my case. if there were a meter for classic, the red part would go 0 +1 +2 BLACK SABBATH.

el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:52 (9 years ago) Permalink

Dud.

Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:15 (9 years ago) Permalink

Wow, obviously I was the only person - ever - to not be into metal when I was younger. I don't even have enough knowledge of this subject to say classic or dud, but I will say they have never been my cup of tea. The whole aesthetic of that genre always put me off.

sleep (sleep), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 20:26 (9 years ago) Permalink

The first song that I loved was The Orb's Little Fluffy Clouds (live), and that is what made me start exploring music a bit. I didn't take interest in any form of rock until some years later when I was almost out of high school. To this day, I don't think I could really enjoy 70s/80s metal.

sleep (sleep), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 20:30 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think somebody said CLASSIC through Heaven & Hell. That is correct. Honestly the only post H&H I've ever heard is "Mob Rules". That was it for me.

My favorite all time UNDER-mentioned Sab songs: "Hand of Doom" "A National Acrobat" "The Thrill Of It All" "Junior's Eyes"

pheNAM (pheNAM), Thursday, 28 October 2004 00:13 (9 years ago) Permalink

Anyways one of the best love songs of all time is "Sweet Leaf."

-- steve hise (shistee...), October 27th, 2004.


Sweat Loaf comes ridiculously close to bettering it though.

Piers (piers), Thursday, 28 October 2004 05:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

But yes, I don't know how it could be possible to say DUD when considering the first six Sabbath albums.

OK, unless you're really not into heavy rock or metal. Is this the case for you Myonga?

Piers (piers), Thursday, 28 October 2004 05:47 (9 years ago) Permalink

Heh heh heh...GOTCHA! I was taking the piss. Completely, undeniably CLASSIC up to/including Sabotage.

[I couldn't believe that Sabbath even deserved the classic/dud treatment, because I couldn't believe that ANYONE considered 'em duds. I was gonna post an are-you-kidding? reply immediately after my "DUD" assessment. But just before I did, I read Xgau's little blurb about "drug-impaired reaction time" and thought it would be HIGH-larious to wait awhile before changing my opinion, then finally changing it FOR REAL, and then blaming my long delay on...yep, you guessed it! It might've been funnier if I'd waited a day or two, but I've always been terribly impatient.]

Anyway, again, CLASSIC through first six albums; and even the inferior Dio and Gillan lineups produced a great LP between 'em.

Finally, one of these days I'm going to finally buy Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die, just to see if they're really as bad as they're reputed.

Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Thursday, 28 October 2004 06:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

I'll stand by Never Say Die.

-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), October 27th, 2004.


Finally, one of these days I'm going to finally buy Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die, just to see if they're really as bad as they're reputed.

-- Myonga Von Bontee (scottyfield...), October 28th, 2004.

Never heard Technical Ecstacy, but Never Say Die is grebt for the:

- Cover art
- Title track
- The start of 'Air Dance'

The rest is decent, listenable stuff, just not as good as what came before (and it's got synths, not that that's necessarily a bad thing).

Sasha (sgh), Thursday, 28 October 2004 06:58 (9 years ago) Permalink

Aha! Myonga - xpost - I suspected as much (well, I'll say that now). But it's got to only be a matter of time before someone answers dud for real... and I'll have to check out "Never Say Die" which slipped completely beneath my radar.

Piers (piers), Thursday, 28 October 2004 07:09 (9 years ago) Permalink

"Junior's Eyes" on Never Say Die rocks as well, dang it.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 October 2004 12:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

It does, but I can't get over the synth onslaught.

Sasha on a different PC, Friday, 29 October 2004 00:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

3 years pass...

Please someone tell me they know the two songs on "The Ozzman Cometh" comp: "Black Sabbath" ('70 Basement Tapes) and "War Pigs" (1970 Basement Tapes).

Both of these songs are clear evidence that BIMBLE IS MORE GOTH THAN YOU.

Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Sunday, 21 September 2008 04:19 (5 years ago) Permalink

Um there's actually more than two basement tapes on that comp (if you get the 2xcd version). Don't forget the awesome versions of "Fairies Wear Boots" and "Behind the Wall of Sleep".

I love the production of those tunes and all the alternate lyrics and verses. Total godhead.

Nate Carson, Sunday, 21 September 2008 09:08 (5 years ago) Permalink

yeah I will have to get the 2xCD version.

A goth's work is never done.

Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Sunday, 21 September 2008 09:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

is that "war pigs" the "walpurgis" version with the satan/witch themed lyrics? i love that.

REIGN IN FUDGE (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Sunday, 21 September 2008 10:08 (5 years ago) Permalink

yeah that's what it is, dude.

Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Sunday, 21 September 2008 17:14 (5 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

Moka, Tuesday, 23 December 2008 22:10 (5 years ago) Permalink

That...

Just... No. Ugh.

novaheat, Wednesday, 24 December 2008 01:58 (5 years ago) Permalink

<3 cindy und bert <3

cuisine of demise (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Wednesday, 24 December 2008 03:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

Dehumanize is good too people.

III IV V (Bo Jackson Overdrive), Monday, 6 April 2009 20:02 (5 years ago) Permalink

heaven & hell did a dehumanizer song that was pretty good. i only knew it was dehumanizer because they put the cover to that album up on the big video screen

d20 riot tard (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, 6 April 2009 20:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

Probably Computer God. Maybe TV Crimes.

Bill Magill, Monday, 6 April 2009 20:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

Back in 2007 Heaven and Hell played "After All (The Dead)", "Computer God", and "I"...the latter of which sounded really great. That song's held up very well.

A. Begrand, Monday, 6 April 2009 20:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

I is definitely great. I don't know if they played Computer God at the Radio City show I was at.

Bill Magill, Monday, 6 April 2009 21:02 (5 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

You've got to be kidding me.

http://www.reuters.com/article/peopleNews/idUSTRE54T00420090531

Advantage: Iommi.

Bill Magill, Tuesday, 2 June 2009 16:45 (5 years ago) Permalink

The reaction on dffd and probably all the other boards was "Sharon Is A Cunt"

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 2 June 2009 16:49 (5 years ago) Permalink

that should infact be a poll

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 2 June 2009 16:50 (5 years ago) Permalink

poll w/ one option

鬼の手 (Edward III), Tuesday, 2 June 2009 16:53 (5 years ago) Permalink

im sure theres x-factor viewers on ILX who like her. but someone do it to find out!

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 2 June 2009 16:56 (5 years ago) Permalink

You're it Herm, i have no idea how to do it.

Bill Magill, Tuesday, 2 June 2009 16:59 (5 years ago) Permalink

you click on where it says new poll
http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/Poll/EnterPollInformationControllerServlet?boardid=41

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 2 June 2009 17:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

Instead of that, I'll just say that the vocals have always been the least important of the idea and ethos of what is "Black Sabbath". In Sabbath, it's:

mountain-moving guitar riffs and sound > thunderous but suprisingly agile rythym section >>>>>>>>> whoever the fuck is singing the lyrics the bassist wrote. Sorry Ozzy, but you now officially suck.

Bill Magill, Tuesday, 2 June 2009 17:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

If as Ozzy alleges Iommi's trying to claim "ownership" of the Sabbath name, why would he be recording and touring as Heaven and Hell?

Plunge Protection Team, Tuesday, 2 June 2009 17:41 (5 years ago) Permalink

Iommi bought the name from the others in the '90s, plus he copyrighted it in 2000. Game, set, match. Just cuz he's touring with another name doesnt mean shit, if you're implying he waived his rights.

Bill Magill, Tuesday, 2 June 2009 17:46 (5 years ago) Permalink

Deciblog has a good take:

http://decibelmagazine.com/Content.aspx?ncid=306741

A. Begrand, Tuesday, 2 June 2009 18:09 (5 years ago) Permalink

from that
Posted 6/2/2009 2:13 PM by Senile Animal

Sharon Osbourne = Cunt!

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 2 June 2009 18:18 (5 years ago) Permalink

holy shit, that statement by Ozzy. The brand was "literally in the toilet". Is this Kiss, who probably did sell toilets with the Kiss insignia, or Black Sabbath?

Bill Magill, Tuesday, 2 June 2009 18:22 (5 years ago) Permalink

I doubt Ozzy can even go to the toilet without Sharon's permission/Help.

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 2 June 2009 18:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

Somebody please shoot the man. Put him out of his misery.

Bill Magill, Tuesday, 2 June 2009 18:25 (5 years ago) Permalink

I doubt Ozzy can even go to the toilet without Sharon's permission/Help.

Well, actually...

You want reality? Noticeably absent from the show's frequent mocking of Ozzy is any discussion of his bladder problems, which have long been legend in the rock world. The reason Oz continually dumps buckets of water on himself through his concerts is to mask the fact that he's peeing in his pants, according to some who are in the unenviable position to know. A friend of mine who once visited the Osbourne manse reports that Ozzy has a "special bathroom" whose walls are lined with rubber because his aim is so bad. Somehow, MTV's cameras have avoided showing us all that.

http://dir.salon.com/story/ent/music/feature/2002/07/16/ozzy/index.html

A. Begrand, Tuesday, 2 June 2009 18:33 (5 years ago) Permalink

ugh

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 2 June 2009 18:40 (5 years ago) Permalink

DEROGAAATIIISSSSSS fistshake.gif

i'm too hardcore to be bourgeois (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Wednesday, 3 June 2009 01:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

As someone who, often as not, can't make it through a feature-length movie without running off to take a whiz at least once, I guess I admire Ozzy's dedication to holding the stage for an entire 2-3 hour show. There's a new TV ad out in which Ozzy pitches some manner of cell phone / mobile device / whatever the fuck you kids call it now in which he uses GPS to navigate his way to the w.c. in his own house which I will never look at the same again as a result.

Handsome Dan, Wednesday, 3 June 2009 07:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

how classic is black sabbath?

i was driving to a gig on the far side of bali with a car full of teenage punk rock roadies, mostly between the ages of 16 and 18. punk rock kids, mind you, not metlaheads (punks not dead in bali) anyway i didn't want to bore them with dance music or hip hop so i threw on "best of black sabbath" hoping they'd dig it... and those fuckers knew every note of the album. not just the guitar solo in paranoid, i mean they were air drumming the fills on snowblind, singing along with symptom of the universe etc. i doubt they'd ever seen the osbournes either. black sabbath is not just classic in america and england but all the way to the far flung reaches of the globe (if not the universe) i mean the group broke up a decade before these kids were even born ffs!

thats how classic black sabbath is.

messiahwannabe, Wednesday, 3 June 2009 10:09 (5 years ago) Permalink

╓abies, Wednesday, 3 June 2009 12:19 (5 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

am0n, Wednesday, 8 July 2009 18:17 (5 years ago) Permalink

Love that clip

Trip Maker, Wednesday, 8 July 2009 18:51 (5 years ago) Permalink

Always cool to see the moustache-less Iommi

Bill Magill, Wednesday, 8 July 2009 19:03 (5 years ago) Permalink

he reminds me of greg ginn there. love the shot of geezer going nuts in his flares

am0n, Wednesday, 8 July 2009 19:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

Geezer rules

Trip Maker, Wednesday, 8 July 2009 19:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

I was woken up this morning by the strains of Black Sabbath s/t coming from my house mate's bedroom. Pretty pleasant alarm really.

When I saw them live in '99, I cried. Stoked to see Heaven & Hell with Neurosis supporting in August.

Nate Carson, Wednesday, 8 July 2009 20:32 (5 years ago) Permalink

2 years pass...

they're back! hurray?
After band members (most prominently Ozzy Osbourne) dropped hints of a possible reunion for at least a year, Tony Iommi confirmed that the original lineup of Black Sabbath has gotten back together and is planning an album and tour. Sabbath was last in the studio back in 2001, when work on a Rick Rubin-produced record stalled after Osbourne went to finish work on a solo album. In recent years, Iommi and Osbourne have battled over ownership of the Black Sabbath name, but that case was settled (with undisclosed terms) in 2010. "We're really looking forward to it and I think the stuff we’ve been writing is really good," Iommi said in an interview. "It's all been very hush-hush. Ozzy's been the worst at trying to hold it back. He's doing a lot of TV and he's being asked stuff about a reunion and he's going 'well I never say never'. He told me, 'I don't know what to say'."

tylerw, Tuesday, 16 August 2011 15:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

has any of those rubin session leaked?

are you ready for a thing called prog? (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 16 August 2011 15:37 (3 years ago) Permalink

all i could dig up was this:

"scary dreams" from ozzfest 2001, supposed to be a part of those rubin sessions

are you ready for a thing called prog? (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 16 August 2011 15:40 (3 years ago) Permalink

how many lawyers will it take for this to happen?!

tylerw, Tuesday, 16 August 2011 15:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

I couldn't believe all the metal sites & blogs assuming all these rumours were fact these last 18 hours or so.

A. Begrand, Tuesday, 16 August 2011 21:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, it seems like fact checking went right out the window with this one but, otoh, its not too difficult to understand why some might choose to run with it given that it supposedly came directly from Iommi's own words.

jon /via/ chi 2.0, Tuesday, 16 August 2011 21:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

Fuuuuuuuckkkkk

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 00:25 (3 years ago) Permalink

As I say, nobody's giving a definite no, just that one 'reporter' seems to have taken liberties with a 'private' 'conversation' or some such.

Mark G, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 09:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

Looks like this is definitely on:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/nov/07/black-sabbath-reform-remembrance-day

ban this sick stunt (anagram), Tuesday, 8 November 2011 20:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

Judging by this twitpic on their official Twitter, they are playing the Whiskey today?

Or what?

jon /via/ chi 2.0, Friday, 11 November 2011 17:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Nevermind, its a reunion press conference being held there, hosted by Rollins.

jon /via/ chi 2.0, Friday, 11 November 2011 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah this is on

ban this sick stunt (anagram), Friday, 11 November 2011 20:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

So, wait, within the last few years did the band ever officially break up? I know they were suing each other, but I think it fishy to call it a reunion when it's really only been, you know, a few years off.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 11 November 2011 20:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

well it's a reunion of the original line-up which hasn't played together since 1978 so I think that it qualifies.

ban this sick stunt (anagram), Saturday, 12 November 2011 01:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's not true at all! I saw the original line-up a couple of times within the last decade. Unless you mean different than Ozzy, Geezer, Iommi and Ward? Because they've already reunited the hell out of this thing.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 12 November 2011 02:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

most interesting thing about that (basically awesome) youtube clip is: new album 2012.

Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 12 November 2011 02:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

(to be released on the rinse FM label, no doubt)

Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 12 November 2011 02:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, this lineup has been reuniting every few years since 1997 or thereabouts. I saw 'em in 2004 on Ozzfest.

that's not funny. (unperson), Saturday, 12 November 2011 02:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

There is NO way this isn't going to suck balls. I had the displeasure of hearing some live reunion thing they did recently (2xCD - from the early aughts maybe? Dunno) and omg, Ozzy, please, for the love of God, STOP.

If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Saturday, 12 November 2011 02:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

There is NO way this isn't going to suck balls.

I disagree. The Rubin treatment could really do something special. Live, yeah, for sure, avoid, but the record might be the first interesting thing Sabbath has done in a good long while.

unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Saturday, 12 November 2011 02:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not if Ozzy's singing. Resurrect Ronnie James and, yeah, maybe. But this is gonna be awful. Mark it. I hope I'm wrong. But I'm not. Ozzy sucks. He's sucked since The Ultimate Sin and the decline has been a long, sharp one.

If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Saturday, 12 November 2011 02:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

i want to hear ozzy deliver a long, incoherent, slurred response to your critique.

Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 12 November 2011 02:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wait a second, assholes could fly. Reunion was actually good. Especially if you are a true Sabbath fan-we were jacked to hear deep cuts like Behind The Wall of Sleep and Spiral Architect. Second, I saw Sabbath with Dio just two years ago, the band was fucking ON (granted different drummer and singer). No reason to believe this won't kill.

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Saturday, 12 November 2011 02:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

is rick rubin producing it, really? interesting and odd combination.

Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 12 November 2011 02:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

If anybody isn't psyched about this, get the fuck off the Sabbath thread.

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Saturday, 12 November 2011 02:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

even belle & sebastian are psyched about this.

Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 12 November 2011 02:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ozzy can sing fine. He wasn't a fantastic singer ever, all he has to do is hit the notes and keep time and be himself - and current engineering trends mean he doesn't really have to do the first two to make a good record.

unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Saturday, 12 November 2011 03:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Rubin has produced slayer, metallica,trouble,etc. All bands that would not exist withotu the originators, and true masters of the form: Sabbath.

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Saturday, 12 November 2011 03:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

excited.

charlie h, Saturday, 12 November 2011 03:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

Daniel, Esq. I was not trying to take u down on my post. I am using my blackberry which causes serious delays. I was responding to assholes could fly

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Saturday, 12 November 2011 03:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol, understood.

Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 12 November 2011 03:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

I hope this is not tied to some Ozzfest stupidity. I want a full set. I want supernaut , wicked world, megalomania,tomorrows dream. I don't want "hits". Please.

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Saturday, 12 November 2011 03:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

dude you're never going to get "wicked world," c'mon.

unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Saturday, 12 November 2011 03:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

You know the point I'm trying to get across.

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Saturday, 12 November 2011 03:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

I just hope Rubin puts an effort into this album like he did in the '80s and early '90s, because hasn't his style as of late has been to let his underlings do all the work and he just nod in approval?

A. Begrand, Saturday, 12 November 2011 03:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wicked world does kick ass though.

I can't tell you how excited I am about this. I can't wait. This band has meant a lot to me since I was young, I know how silly that sounds. But they are very important to me.

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Saturday, 12 November 2011 03:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

You're all crazy. This is gonna make Loutallica sound like Budgie.

If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Saturday, 12 November 2011 03:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hahahahaha

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Saturday, 12 November 2011 03:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

I just hope Rubin puts an effort into this album like he did in the '80s and early '90s, because hasn't his style as of late has been to let his underlings do all the work and he just nod in approval?

that was always his style - he doesn't even actually engineer - IIRC he does not actually know how to twiddle the knobs, etc. what he does is listen to stuff and give it the thumbs-up or thumbs-down

unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Saturday, 12 November 2011 05:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ozzy sounded decent on his latest studio album (too bad the songs weren't really there) and the rest of the guys sounded fantastic backing up Dio, so I have no reason to think the album is going to be awful. Not really expecting it to blow me away either though.

jon /via/ chi 2.0, Saturday, 12 November 2011 05:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

that was always his style - he doesn't even actually engineer - IIRC he does not actually know how to twiddle the knobs, etc. what he does is listen to stuff and give it the thumbs-up or thumbs-down

If the Dixie Chicks documentary is any indication, he doesn't even show up to the studio. He does, however, offer such monumentally indispensable nuggets of wisdom like, "Nice chorus" and "I like the chorus" and "That's a good chorus."

His work on Ballbreaker was tremendous, though (and more engaged/hands-on, iirc); hopefully he'll do Sabbath the same way.

Let A Man Come In And Do The Cop Porn (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Saturday, 12 November 2011 05:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm with jon. Ozzy sounded pretty good on his last album (and really good on tour, btw; the set list and length of set were both unprecedented). I'm cautiously optimistic.

that's not funny. (unperson), Saturday, 12 November 2011 13:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

I have low expectations. If wiki is at all accurate, the four original members of Sabbath worked with Rubin back in 2001 but eventually abandoned the project, and I would be shocked if the new album is not composed largely of these decade-old sessions. And the last time I saw the original four live, back in 2004 on Ozzfest, I thought they were turgid and terrible, and Ozzy was at the peak of his cheerleader clownishness. Iommi and Butler I imagine will be in OK shape, but the idea of Ozzy and Ward with an extra decade behind them is a scary thought. Those guys looked like they were going to die on stage.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 12 November 2011 13:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

why not pick a more relevant producer? rubin's track record hasn't been great in the past 10+ years. everything he does sounds so clean and polished and devoid of any character.

i'd like to see sabbath produced by justin broadrick.

borntohula, Sunday, 13 November 2011 02:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

Sanford Parker producing Sabbath, now that would be something.

A. Begrand, Sunday, 13 November 2011 03:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

really hope Rubin approaches this like he did for Johnny Cash

shiroibasketshoes & tuxedos (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 13 November 2011 03:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^ if Rubin goes all in that way it could be really interesting. Hard to imagine Iommi going for it though

unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 13 November 2011 03:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

"It's now or never. We are getting along great. Everything's really good," said Iommi.

"It's like putting on an old glove. It's fantastic."

calstars, Sunday, 13 November 2011 03:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh man, who the fuck isn't psyched about putting on an old glove?

Lars and the Lulu Girl (NickB), Sunday, 13 November 2011 06:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

Cory! Cori! Coré! (buzza), Sunday, 13 November 2011 07:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't know, I saw them back in maybe 2002 and it totally lived up to my expectations in every way, and I know the guys in the band still totally kill it. HOWEVER in between 2002 and now i've seen Ozzy solo 2 or 3 times and although the first time in maybe 2004 was good, the ones a few years later were really really awful - i think he hit the point about 5 years back where he just can't do it anymore and it's a bit of an embarrassment. I hope i'm wrong, but I can see him dragging this down pretty badly.

Jamie_ATP, Sunday, 13 November 2011 11:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

Go figure.

suspecterrain, Sunday, 13 November 2011 11:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'll say it again, Ozzy and Ward are the weak links. Ozzy is a clown and Ward has lost his muscle.

Also, they all clearly hate each other, which tends to dampen spirits. And Sharon has a way of killing everything she touches.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 13 November 2011 12:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^ Iommi sock spotted.

bear has little fear of hades (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Sunday, 13 November 2011 12:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

Again, I disagree on Ozzy's weakness. I saw him play last year and the set was more than two hours long, something like 17 or 18 songs, and his voice was strong throughout. I think he knew with Rob Halford as his opening act, he had to step his game up, but he's just staging a for-real comeback in the last few years. I just saw the movie God Bless Ozzy Osbourne last night and it seems he's been clean and sober for real for the last five years, so he really is in better physical health than when I saw him with Sabbath in '05 (when he'd just started to clean up). Now Ward is not the drummer he once was. But as long as he retains his sense of swing and can lock in with Butler the way they did in the '70s, triggering can solve problems of actual force live.

that's not funny. (unperson), Sunday, 13 November 2011 14:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think you also nail why Ozzy was good when you saw him. That guy's voice live these days is not exactly ... unsweetened. At least, that's my suspicion. But hey, I hope this is awesome.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 13 November 2011 15:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

Is there anyone in any field more overrated than rick rubin?

the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 13 November 2011 15:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

Classic for their run of work from 1970 until 1975, definitely. I'd put the first album with Dio on the classic pile as well. Dud for pretty much everything else, although there are moments here and there which could be kept. Any live version of 'Dirty Women' beats the pants off the studio cut.

Turrican, Sunday, 13 November 2011 16:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Dude you just dissed mob rules prepare to dire

the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 13 November 2011 16:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

Current-day Halford opening for current day Ozzy = blasphemous

also,

Is there anyone in any field more overrated than rick rubin?

^^^this

If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Sunday, 13 November 2011 17:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

Statement on Black Sabbath Album & Tour: Los Angeles, CA – February 2, 2012

Dear Sabbath Fans, Fellow Musicians and Interested Parties, At this time, I would love nothing more than to be able to proceed with the Black Sabbath album and tour. However, I am unable to continue unless a "signable" contract is drawn up; a contract that reflects some dignity and respect toward me as an original member of the band. Last year, I worked diligently in good faith with Tony, Ozzy and Geezer. And on 11/11/11, again in good faith, I participated in the L.A. press conference. Several days ago, after nearly a year of trying to negotiate, another “unsignable” contract was handed to me. Let me say that although this has put me in some kind of holding pattern, I am packed and ready to leave the U.S. for England. More importantly, I definitely want to play on the album, and I definitely want to tour with Black Sabbath. Since the news of Tony's illness, and the understanding that the band would move production to the U.K., I've spent everyday getting to or living in a place of readiness to leave. That involves something of a task, and as I've tried to find out what's going on with the U.K. sessions, I've realized that I've been getting "the cold shoulder" (and, I might add, not for the first time). Feeling somewhat ostracized, my guess is as of today, I will know nothing of what'shappening unless I sign "the unsignable contract." The place I'm in feels lousy and lonely because as much as I want to play and participate, Ialso have to stand for something and not sign on. If I sign as-is, I stand to lose my rights, dignity and respectability as a rock musician. I believe in freedom and freedom of speech. I grew up in a hard rock/metal band. We stood for something then, and we played from the heart with honesty and sincerity. I am in the spirit of integrity, far from the corporate malady, I am real and honest, fair and compassionate. If I'm replaced, I have to face you, the beloved Sabbath fans. I hope you will not hold me responsible for the failure of an original Black Sabbath lineup as promoted. Without fault finding, I want to assure everyone that my loyalty to Sabbath is intact. So here I am. I lay my truth down before you. I'm good to go IF I get a “signable” contract. I don't want to let anyone down, especially Black Sabbath and all the Sabbath fans. You know I love you. It would be a sad day in Rock if this current situation fell to the desires of a few. My position is not greed-driven. I'm not holding out for a "big piece" of the action (money) like some kind of blackmail deal. I’d like something that recognizes and is reflective of my contributions to the band, including the reunions that started fourteen years ago. After the last tour I vowed to never again sign on to an unreasonable contract. I want a contract that shows some respect to me and my family, a contract that will honor all that I've brought to Black Sabbath since its beginning. That's the story so far. Stay safe and stay strong. I love every single one of you. --Bill Ward

Cragenham Craig (Craigo Boingo), Thursday, 2 February 2012 22:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

Go Bill

Phibes Kartel (NickB), Thursday, 2 February 2012 22:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

I can't believe the Osbourne camp would try to take advantage of any situation. They never do that.

EZ Snappin, Thursday, 2 February 2012 22:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not at all surprised, but fuck this really bums me out. If I lose my chance to see these guys because of Osbourne dickishness I'll be so pissed off.

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 2 February 2012 22:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

bill magill to thread

Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 2 February 2012 22:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

I mean, I'm 100% behind Bill Ward assuming what he is saying is true, but I was really excited for this album and tour.

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 2 February 2012 22:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'd be really surprised if this is anything else but Sharon's machinations. This is the same people that OVERDUBBED out the bass and drums on Ozzy's first album to keep from paying royalties.

earlnash, Thursday, 2 February 2012 22:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

maybe they could just avoid Osbourne altogether and get Ian Gillan back in the band.

tylerw, Thursday, 2 February 2012 22:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

Watch, the tour and album will end up being Ozzy + Black Label Society as his backing band or some shit.

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 2 February 2012 22:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

This happened the last time they reunited. Exact same thing, this is total deja vu. Ward ended up playing.

Count me in the Ward camp here. Embarrassing.

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Thursday, 2 February 2012 22:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

Iommi and Butler need to show some stones here. Back your old mate. We were promised the original Black Sabbath.

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Thursday, 2 February 2012 22:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

need to know exactly what it is in the contract that Ward doesn't like tbh

ban this sick stunt (anagram), Friday, 3 February 2012 08:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

Probably giving up publishing or something like that. The original Sabs all shared writing credits for all songs.

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Friday, 3 February 2012 15:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^

difficult not to suspect Sharon in this

Full Frontal Newtity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 3 February 2012 17:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

If Ward does end up playing, I'm sure Sharon will just man the sound booth to turn him down before pelting him with dozens of eggs at the end of each show.

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 3 February 2012 17:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

It is my hope that tomorrow it will turn out that Bill gets to play and no one will ever really know the details of the contract or who was behind it sharon.

beachville, Friday, 3 February 2012 17:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

This is obviously Sharon and her lapdog Ozzy.

RIP Dio. Bring back Heaven and Hell with Bruce Dickinson or somebody, because this Sabbath thing seems to be toast.

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Friday, 3 February 2012 19:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

Or the Gillan lineup as was mentioned above, maybe Ward would be up for that one. Or Bev Bevan.

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Friday, 3 February 2012 19:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

how about Tony 'Nyan Cat' Martin?

Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Friday, 3 February 2012 19:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

Absolutely not. Fuck that guy.

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Friday, 3 February 2012 20:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

We were saddened to hear yesterday via Facebook that Bill declined publicly to participate in our current Black Sabbath plans...we have no choice but to continue recording without him although our door is always open... We are still in the UK with Tony. Writing and recording the new album and on a roll... See you at Download!!!

- Tony, Ozzy and Geezer

ban this sick stunt (anagram), Monday, 6 February 2012 08:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

fuck 'em

RejoicingShepherd (stevie), Monday, 6 February 2012 12:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

No band gets great without a great drummer. Ward is certainly no exception.

beachville, Monday, 6 February 2012 13:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'd be really surprised if this is anything else but Sharon's machinations. This is the same people that OVERDUBBED out the bass and drums on Ozzy's first album to keep from paying royalties.

iirc, Ozzy didn't even know about this until months after the reissues were in the stores.

Wouldn't be surprised if Ozzy gets to the studio the first day and says, "Wait, where's Bill?"

Let A Man Come In And Do The Cop Porn (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 6 February 2012 14:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

It'll be Vinny Appice then, more than likely.

ban this sick stunt (anagram), Monday, 6 February 2012 15:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

If Bill is sitting on his bed in LA patiently waiting for the taxi to call, he'll be there a long time. His transparent effort to get fans to persuade Ozzy & Co. to support Ward is likely to backfire, especially when all focus is now on Tony Iommi’s treatment for lymphoma, making a new record, and healing old wounds. Perhaps Ward has a point but to the general public, it sounds like sour grapes. At this rate, Ward is likely to be spending the summer watching highlights of the Sabbath reunion on MTV. But in all the fracas, we did get a confirmation Black Sabbath plans to be at the Download festival. Got sticks? Stay tuned. And Go Tony!

http://www.epiphone.com/News/Features/News/2012/Black-Sabbath-Seeks-New-Drummer.aspx

beachville, Monday, 6 February 2012 16:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

Well, fuck you Sharon. Does anyone know if theres any foundation that Iommi supports? After this bullshit, I think I'm going to take the money I would have spent on the new album and tickets for the tour and donate it in Iommi's name instead of giving one more fucking cent to an organization that would allow a founding member to be treated with such disregard. Awful.

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 6 February 2012 16:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

iirc, Ozzy didn't even know about this until months after the reissues were in the stores.

Wouldn't be surprised if Ozzy gets to the studio the first day and says, "Wait, where's Bill?

Very likely otm.

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 6 February 2012 16:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

alternately: "Wait, where's who's Bill?"

max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 February 2012 16:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

guilty lol

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 6 February 2012 16:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

i really hate entertainment journalists who feign to speak for 'the general public'

RejoicingShepherd (stevie), Monday, 6 February 2012 16:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

Haha, yeah, the "general public" I'm in touch with is squarely on Ward's side on this.

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 6 February 2012 16:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

Sharon has some pretty solid connections with Epiphone. A week ago she hosted their roast of Zakk Wylde.

beachville, Monday, 6 February 2012 16:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

i also like the "got sticks?" thing as if they band will just hold open auditions to any dickhead with a kit

dave coolier (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 6 February 2012 16:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

God, i'm sure that was a laugh riot.

xpost

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Monday, 6 February 2012 16:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

i also like the "got sticks?" thing as if they band will just hold open auditions to any dickhead with a kit

To preempt any sidetracks here, I am in no way equating the state and/or talent of the two bands here, but that is exactly what the Pumpkins did to replace Chamberlin to pretty much disastrous results.

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 6 February 2012 17:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

Really? Seems like such a waste of time when you could just put out feelers to established dudes

dave coolier (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 6 February 2012 17:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I have no idea why they did it, but Corgan held open auditions (at fucking Guitar Center too, iirc) and ended up going with some 19 year-old kid.

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 6 February 2012 17:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

GENIUS

max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 February 2012 17:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

Definitely the smartest way to replace the most talented dude you've ever had in your band.

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 6 February 2012 17:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

I would hope that any established drummers steer clear of this out of respect for Ward.

Then again, Ozzy's touring band didn't have any such qualms about jumping on board with Overdubs Of A Madman.

Let A Man Come In And Do The Cop Porn (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 6 February 2012 17:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

or joining Metallica lol

max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 February 2012 17:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, this has 'Tommy Clueftos Joining Sabbath' all over it.

A. Begrand, Monday, 6 February 2012 17:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I have no idea why they did it, but Corgan held open auditions (at fucking Guitar Center too, iirc) and ended up going with some 19 year-old kid

that's becuz only a 19 year old nobody wouldn't already be aware what a colossal dickhole billy is?

RejoicingShepherd (stevie), Monday, 6 February 2012 17:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

infinite dickhole

buzza, Monday, 6 February 2012 17:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

that's becuz only a 19 year old nobody wouldn't already be aware what a colossal dickhole billy is?

Fair point.

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 6 February 2012 17:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

Jamie_ATP, Friday, 10 February 2012 12:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

Haha, my wife's guitly pleasure is America's Got Talent and I usually get roped into watching it with her, those guys were fun to watch the year they were on.

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 10 February 2012 16:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

At this rate, Ward is likely to be spending the summer watching highlights of the Sabbath reunion on MTV

Highlights, MTV, lol

If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Friday, 10 February 2012 16:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

God, people pretending there's been no Black Sabbath original line-up reunion in 30 years are worse than people pretending Van Halen hasn't toured with DLR in the same span.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 17 February 2012 20:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

Who is "pretending" that?

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Friday, 17 February 2012 20:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

Well, the Black Sabbath tour has now been replaced by an "Ozzy & Friends" tour, which just makes me think of a line from the movie King of New York: "Friends? That cocksucker ain't got no friends."

誤訳侮辱, Friday, 17 February 2012 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

AVClub:

The rest of the European tour will be rebranded as “Ozzy and Friends,” featuring the intermittently cognizant Osbourne and a bunch of special guests (including Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler and guitarist Zakk Wylde), which is kind of like being told you’re getting Black Sabbath but then instead just getting Ozzy Osbourne and a bunch of other people, which is pretty much exactly what Black Sabbath fans have been getting for the past 34 years.

Except when they got, you know, Black Sabbath.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 17 February 2012 21:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, that's a weird statement. That said, at least Ozzy is honoring the dates. They could've just canceled. Axl Rose has canceled shows/tours for way less (he got a hangnail! He poured orange juice in his cereal instead of milk!)

Gamera died for our sins (J3ff T.), Friday, 17 February 2012 21:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah #shotsfired at Dio too >:(

dave coolier (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 17 February 2012 21:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Message From Tony

Hiya,

A little update on how it's all going:

Well, I've had the last dose of chemotherapy so hopefully my body will start to get back to normal soon, the steroids were the worse. I've now got three weeks of radiotherapy coming up which I'm told can be very tiring so we'll see.

A big thanks to Ozzy and Geezer for coming over to England, it was a big incentive for me, we managed to work most days and have some great new tracks.

And, importantly thanks again for your kind messages, hope to be seeing you soon.

- Tony

shur fine (am0n), Thursday, 29 March 2012 15:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

Good news, but where is Ward?

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Thursday, 29 March 2012 15:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Still in the States, I assume.

EZ Snappin, Thursday, 29 March 2012 16:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

Classic in theory, dud to actually listen to for more than 2-3 songs in a row

Poliopolice, Thursday, 29 March 2012 16:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

Poliopolice wrote this on thread Islands (Ex-Unicorns project) on board I Love Music on Mar 7, 2012
pitchfork gave it a good review

Poliopolice wrote this on thread Genesis: "Land Of Confusion" on board I Love Music on Mar 16, 2012
this song kicks ass all over the place

Poliopolice wrote this on thread MTV Buzz Bin: Volume 1 - The Zen of Buzz Clips: From a Guy Named Buzz on board I Love Music on Mar 20, 2012
gin blossoms by a country mile, fuckaz

shur fine (am0n), Thursday, 29 March 2012 17:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hooray! Someone learned how to use search.

Poliopolice, Thursday, 29 March 2012 17:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

By the way, 3 posts do not completely encapsulate someone's tastes, and to think that you have found damning evidence against my ability to appreciate art suggests that you have bought into a rather silly fallacy that you can generalize heavily about someone by using a very small number of data points.

Poliopolice, Thursday, 29 March 2012 17:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

shur fine (am0n), Thursday, 29 March 2012 17:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

Poliopolice, Thursday, 29 March 2012 17:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

: )

shur fine (am0n), Thursday, 29 March 2012 17:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

So Black Sabbath has been confirmed for Lollapalooza this summer (which, given past years, means they won't be playing another Chicago show this year), and the promoters are swearing that all four original members will be there.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 03:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

wut

two overweight dachshunds with three eyes (La Lechera), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 03:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's encouraging.

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 13:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

Having seen Black Sabbath (original line-up plus replacement model) in (relatively) recent years, plus a few Ozzy solo sets, I fear this show will find the band at ... off-peak. But I bet the crowd will be a blast.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 13:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hey, even doddering old Black Sabbath would be a treat for me, since I've never seen them before. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Wouldn't be the first time a Chicago promoter was blowing smoke.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 14:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

I saw the originals in '06 and they were incredible, and the Dio model at Radio City and the subsequent tour and they were incredible. Granted that's a few years ago, and as everbody knows I'm a little biased, but you definitely have to go.

I really hope Ward is involved, its not the same if he's not

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 14:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

The question is not whether they're booked, it's whether they'll ... make it. When I saw them years ago I thought Ward looked half-dead (because he had just recovered from a heart attack, for sure). Ozzy was a mess, barely hitting his cues. And now with Iommi's deal, I dunno. I hope they pull it off.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 14:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ward was good in '06 post heart attack. The weak link was totally Ozzy, which was the case in their heyday as well. 70's era Sabbath was great due to a combination of cruashing riffage combined with a killer bass-drums pocket. Elmer Fudd could have sung for them, I wouldnt have cared

You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 15:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's a lollapalooza this summer? lol

lebron traveled (am0n), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 15:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's a lollapalooza every summer!

Mississippi Butt Hurt (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 15:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol

lebron traveled (am0n), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 15:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm just pissed that the Afghan Whigs are on the bill, which means they won't play somewhere I'd rather see them and will force me to find a way to go just for them. Ideally on Black Sabbath day.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 15:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, its sort of annual ritual of disappointment, looking over the Lollapalooza schedule seeing 2-3 bands out of hundreds that I really want to see, then realizing I'm not going to pay ridiculous money to see those 2-3 bands but also realizing they won't be playing anywhere else around town any time soon

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 15:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Johnny Hotcox, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 18:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

What an incredible and underrated song

One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 18:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

I did a little Audacity work and mixed the drum & bass tracks for three tunes ("After Forever", "Sweet Leaf", "Into the Void"), check 'em out here:

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?bczmt70ehltjq05

Johnny Hotcox, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 20:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Original Black Sabbath drummer Bill Ward made a statement confirming that "a final effort to participate in the upcoming Sabbath shows a failure to agree has continued."

Writing on his website, the drummer said.

"At this time I have to inform you that I won't be playing with Black Sabbath at the Birmingham gig dated May 19th, 2012, nor will I be playing at Download on June 10th, 2012. Further, I will not be playing at Lollapalooza on August 3, 2012.

It is with a very sad heart that I bring you this news. I am sincerely passionate in my desire to play with the band, and I'm very, very sorry that it's fallen to this. This statement is even more painstaking to write, as I was particularly excited to play alongside Tony Iommi after the recent treatments he underwent. I wanted that to become a reality.

He goes on to say:

"Earlier in April 2012, I'd been asked to participate "minimally" in the Download festival. I believe I'd been offered no more than three songs to play while another drummer presumably played the rest of the show with Black Sabbath. I was not willing to participate in that offer. I was not prepared to watch another drummer play a Sabbath set, while I was to play only three songs."

it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 22:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

disgusting. fuck osborne and fuck the rest of sabbath for going along with this. it's a disgrace.

It was you. Miming to Tenacious D. (stevie), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 22:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

ozzy's just a pathetic joke at this point.

It was you. Miming to Tenacious D. (stevie), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 22:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'd been offered no more than three songs to play while another drummer presumably played the rest of the show with Black Sabbath. I was not willing to participate in that offer. I was not prepared to watch another drummer play a Sabbath set, while I was to play only three songs.

this is fucking ridiculous

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

lame.

Bandersnatch Cumberbund (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, indicates that they just wanted his name & endorsement for marketing purposes. bastards.

The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

sharon to blame or all of them?

it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

My wife likes to watch America's Got Talent (we all have our weaknesses) and, as a result of only seeing her on that show, thinks Sharon is just "the sweetest" and she rolls her eyes at me whenever I launch into a "Sharon is evil" tirade.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

wow, that's messed up. is there some reason to think that Ward isn't physically capable of playing the drums for these gigs?

tylerw, Thursday, 17 May 2012 02:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

sharon to blame or all of them?

it might be sharon's idea, but the other three are willing to go along with it.

i don't know. maybe bill ward's an intolerable person to be in a band with. i find it hard to believe though, and the osbournes have previous when it comes to fucking over their rhythm sections.

Sisig Steve (stevie), Thursday, 17 May 2012 07:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

maybe bill ward's an intolerable person to be in a band with.

^never met him, but by all accounts he's one of the best guys in rock. Fuck the osbournes, and fuck iommi and butler for going along with this shit. This is one of the most insulting things Ive ever heard of. 3 songs????? It's Bill fucking Ward!

One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Thursday, 17 May 2012 14:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

BLACK SABBATH Statement:

We have decided not to make any detailed comment on Bill's latest statement. There are two sides to every story. We have been working hard at rehearsals making excellent progress after Tony's treatments and we have engaged a substitute drummer for the forthcoming shows. See you at Download.

--Black Sabbath, 5/17/12

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 May 2012 00:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

in other words bill is telling the truth and they cant come up with a truthful credible reply

it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Friday, 18 May 2012 00:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 18 May 2012 02:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

Didn't they have an agreement (similar to the Sex Pistols' one) where it's not "Black Sabbath" if it's not the four originals? (witness the release of the RJDio fronted live album where even that's who Black Sabbath was at the time, they couldn't name the band on that CD?)...

or was it 'verbal'..

Mark G, Friday, 18 May 2012 08:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

I've seen the original Black Sabbath, plus "Black Sabbath" with Mike Bordin from Faith No More on drums, so no. Also, there have been lots of other Black Sabbath permutations on the road. Always business, never personal.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 May 2012 11:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

but then sharon bought the rights to the name from Iommi.

it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Friday, 18 May 2012 11:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

When did that happen? Because I don't think there's ever been a Black Sabbath minus Iommi. In fact, I want to say that Iommi is the only one who has never been replaced in Black Sabbath, and weren't there lawsuits regarding the name as recently as a year or two ago?

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 May 2012 12:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

presumably when ozzy rejoined late 90s. thats why dio sabbath couldnt use the name

it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Friday, 18 May 2012 12:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

tbf for a huge % of the population the black sabbath name = ozzy, so billing the dio band as "heaven & hell" was probably a good idea just for bringing in just the audience that wanted to see that lineup, which was large enough to suggest the name change didn't hurt them

some dude, Friday, 18 May 2012 13:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

tbf for a huge % of the population the black sabbath name = ozzy

^then a huge % of the population is idiots who don't know a fucking thing about what they are talking about.

One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Friday, 18 May 2012 13:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

For me Bill Ward>>>>>>>>Ozzy

One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Friday, 18 May 2012 13:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

When did that happen? Because I don't think there's ever been a Black Sabbath minus Iommi. In fact, I want to say that Iommi is the only one who has never been replaced in Black Sabbath, and weren't there lawsuits regarding the name as recently as a year or two ago?

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, May 18, 2012 8:48 AM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Correct, the settlement on the use of the name was very recent.

One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Friday, 18 May 2012 13:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ward apparently was not a party to the settlement, if all this crap is hitting the fan.

One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Friday, 18 May 2012 13:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

So, what constitutes a bottom-line Black Sabbath now? Ozzy, and Sharon on Bongos?

Mark G, Friday, 18 May 2012 13:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

summary:

On 2 February 2012, Ward publicly announced that he would not participate in the Black Sabbath reunion unless he was given a "signable contract." The following day, the other group members announced they had "no choice but to continue recording without him," but also said "our door is always open" for Ward to return to the band.[13] In February 2012, the band announced that they will not continue the world tour but will play the Download festival in June 2012. Instead of Black Sabbath, the tour will feature Osbourne and a revolving line-up of guest musicians, billed as "Ozzy and Friends".

On 11 April 2012, Lollapalooza founder Perry Farrell announced that Black Sabbath will perform at Lollapalooza 2012. Farrell said this will be Black Sabbath's only American concert in 2012.[151]

Some time in late April 2012, Bill Ward was added back to the band's official Facebook page as a member of Black Sabbath.

On May 15, 2012, Bill Ward posted on his website that "after a final effort to participate in the upcoming Sabbath shows a failure to agree has continued" and that he would not be participating in the reunion shows, but "will remain with an open mind and a position of willingness to negotiate 'signable' terms with Sabbath’s representatives in the future."[152]

Mark G, Friday, 18 May 2012 13:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

Misread part of the above as the tour will feature Osbourne and a revolting line-up of guest musicians.

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Friday, 18 May 2012 13:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

maybe members of Velvet Revolter will be involved

some dude, Friday, 18 May 2012 13:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

It would be so cool if Ward got to sing for Velvet Revolver.

how's life, Friday, 18 May 2012 13:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Fuck THIS shit:

https://twitter.com/#!/basementgalaxy/status/203532603314274305

Oh this is priceless, the new Black Sabbath website has old photos of the band with Bill Ward cropped out. Classy! http://t.co/HnzKrrrY

Ned Raggett, Friday, 18 May 2012 17:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

Related:

https://twitter.com/#!/basementgalaxy/status/203533198871887873

Sabbath fans are really letting the band have it on Facebook. As if the band cares what they think. http://t.co/2y1ASsgu

Ned Raggett, Friday, 18 May 2012 17:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

man that's a shame. I just watched Classic Albums: Paranoid and Ward came off as the coolest dude. I hate to see musical vendettas.

WARS OF ARMAGEDDON (Karaoke Version) (Sparkle Motion), Friday, 18 May 2012 17:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's only a matter of time before they announce new remasters with Ward's drums replaced. Geezer and Tony are assholes for going along with the Osbourne clan down this path.

EZ Snappin, Friday, 18 May 2012 17:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

omg @ that website

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 18 May 2012 17:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

unbelievable

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 18 May 2012 17:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

definitely sinking into "more ridiculous than spinal tap" territory.

tylerw, Friday, 18 May 2012 17:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

not cropped out here
http://www.blacksabbath.com/history.html

am0n, Friday, 18 May 2012 17:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

kelly o's still growing out her mustache to shoot the new band photos

some dude, Friday, 18 May 2012 17:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'd rather see a reunion of the Tyr era band than this shit. this is not Black Sabbath by any stretch. They wont be getting any of my dough.

One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Friday, 18 May 2012 17:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

As for this weekend's warm-up show in Birmingham, the drummer only learned of the concert at the end of April, from an online advert. "I had no prior knowledge of the date and location, and I felt totally excluded." After about a week of back and forth, Ward claims he received the following offer: "Come to the UK, play for free and see how the first show goes."

"I was tempted," he said. "Playing for free would not have been a problem for me, but … I can't come to Birmingham and 'see what happens' knowing there is a risk of not being able to play Download or Lollapalooza … I had to say 'no' to Birmingham on the principle of wanting to play all the shows."

While Ward maintains an "open mind" about future work with Black Sabbath, the 2012 negotiations seem to have reached a dead end. "I hold no malice or resentment towards the other band members," he said. "My fight has never been with them. I'll love them forever. In my opinion, nobody wins this time; the band doesn't win; the fans for an original lineup don't win. Nobody wins, nobody. Even the ones who thought they did."

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 May 2012 18:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Arik 'Moonhawk' Roper talking about the Hipgnosis sleeve art to Technical Ecstasy in the current issue of WIRE = classic.

Ima Skim Read That Bitch (Doran), Friday, 18 May 2012 19:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

link?

am0n, Friday, 18 May 2012 19:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Bill Ward seems like a guy with a pretty great attitude.

WARS OF ARMAGEDDON (Karaoke Version) (Sparkle Motion), Friday, 18 May 2012 19:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

"Come to the UK, play for free and see how the first show goes."

This is unbelievable.

One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Friday, 18 May 2012 19:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah. dude is putting on a brave front but I can't imagine wanting to play with those other assholes after this kind of treatment.

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 18 May 2012 19:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

I hope he gets some good guest spots or something out of this. Like, if I had a famous band, I would be all like "Bill Ward, you want to play with us?" right now.

Lee Morgan Come Again (how's life), Friday, 18 May 2012 19:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

Can I play devil's advocaat for a mo?

This sounds like they have a problem with Bill's ability...

Mark G, Friday, 18 May 2012 19:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

Maybe I could buy that if the Osbornes already didn't have an EXTENSIVE history of fucking people over and doing extremely childish things (like cropping people out of photos, erasing them from albums, throwing eggs at them onstage etc etc etc). As soon as I saw the images popped up in their website with Ward cropped out, it was confirmation enough for me.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 18 May 2012 19:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

When I saw Sabbath 13 years ago I had a major problem with Ozzy's ability, he still seems to be there though...

A++++++ would deal with again (Matt #2), Friday, 18 May 2012 19:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

Although yes it wouldn't surprise me if Bill has trouble keeping up these days.

A++++++ would deal with again (Matt #2), Friday, 18 May 2012 19:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

this is pitiful bush league fuckery that has the Osbournes' fingerprints all over it

Vermicious Knid A (Noodle Vague), Friday, 18 May 2012 20:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

This sounds like they have a problem with Bill's ability...

― Mark G, Friday, May 18, 2012 3:33 PM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Have you heard Ozzy recently?

One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Friday, 18 May 2012 20:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

And if that was the case, why not talk to Bill and reach some sort of detente behind closed doors. Give him a golden parachute or something in return for saying he's "retired". Dont tell the guy he can show up and play for free as a tryout-its Bill fucking Ward!

One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Friday, 18 May 2012 20:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

its Bill fucking Ward!

― One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill fucking Magill)

am0n, Friday, 18 May 2012 20:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

I mentioned upthread that when I saw Sabbath a decade ago, I thought Ward was having trouble keeping up. This was after his return from his heart attack. But then, he did keep up, so I'm not sure what the prob is. Maybe he got worse? But of course, if he couldn't do it, it's not a "I think I can, I think I can" situation. If he couldn't do it he couldn't fake it, so it seems unlikely that performance is an issue.

Geezer and Ozzy have it easy. All Geezer has to do is sleep through his rote-simple (but don't get me wrong, still awesome!) riffs, and Ozzy just has to be subtle about peeing his pants.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 May 2012 20:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

at least he's being subtle about something for once

bailiwaka flocka (some dude), Friday, 18 May 2012 20:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

By "subtle" I meant "subtly dumping buckets of water over himself to hide the fact that he is incontinent."

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 May 2012 20:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think it's a secret I like these guys a little bit. This kind of stupidity really bothers me. But I'm an idiot for thinking it's not about money at this point.

One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Saturday, 19 May 2012 00:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

this is fucking infuriating bullshit

cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Saturday, 19 May 2012 00:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'd find some satisfaction, at least, in how hated Sharon Osbourne is in the metal community, if not for the fact that so many housewives love her now

Chris S, Saturday, 19 May 2012 01:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ever since the Iron Maiden debacle, Sharon has had no cred at all.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 19 May 2012 01:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

cause she had so much before?

Tailpipe Store (some dude), Saturday, 19 May 2012 01:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

for exasperating lols go find the few defenders of this move on Black Sabbath's Facebook page, including one especially aggro clueless dude who opines that "the drummer [is] the most expendable position in any band" - lol anyone who believes this knows literally nothing about bands

cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Saturday, 19 May 2012 04:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

couldn't resist

http://whatdrummer.tumblr.com/

ma ck ro ma ck ro (mackro mackro), Saturday, 19 May 2012 05:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

Geezer Butler sez...

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Saturday, 19 May 2012 18:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hmmmm...he sorta wins me over with the "stay frosty".

Lee Morgan Come Again (how's life), Saturday, 19 May 2012 18:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

That Geezer bit is total bullshit. Key takeaway:

He hadn’t told any one of us he was having contractual problems, and frankly those things are worked out between our representatives, and never between the four of us let alone in public.

So basically the band, not surprisingly, is in Fleetwood Mac lockdown land, where the members don't talk to each other, and every member has its own manager, each looking out for their client's best interests. That's fine, but on that count Geezer's take is so disingenuous. He likely has no idea how much Bill may have been getting hosed, or maybe how much more he was slated to make than Bill. He has no idea what Bill's contract looked like, or exactly what Bill was offered. He says Bill was asking an "unreasonable" amount, but maybe that "unreasonable" amount was much less than his. Maybe the contract severely limited Bill's rights, or curtailed his potential participation, seeing how it seems the other three had been planning this "reunion" with either no or another drummer all along.

The good thing about being in the dark is that it allows you to write what Geezer wrote with this falsely objective tone. The fact that he plays Tony's condition and this "charity" show for sympathy is a further bullshit red flag.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 20 May 2012 14:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

via Alex in NYC

EZ Snappin, Sunday, 20 May 2012 14:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, the whole "We never talk to each other about these things; why didn't he talk to us about this?" angle gives it a distinct whiff of bullshit.

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Sunday, 20 May 2012 14:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

i've still only ever heard 'iron man' and 'paranoid'. and since it power gets on my tits when singers follow the guitar lines PRECISELY, without bothering to come up with a vocal melody, i've explored no further.

dextor ellis bextor, Sunday, 20 May 2012 14:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

ignorance is never anything to crow about, y'know

Sisig Steve (stevie), Sunday, 20 May 2012 15:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah theres enough people with that shtick on ilm

it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Sunday, 20 May 2012 16:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

As you may expect, a one off show at Donnington Festival (Download) costs an absolute fortune to stage, involving over 50 people, transport, air fares, hotels, meals, agents, promotors, accountants, lawyers etc,

pfffffffffbbbtt fuck off Geezer

Stormy Davis, Sunday, 20 May 2012 18:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

I do like that lawyers are exempt from the category of 'people'

cissémanwhore (DJ Mencap), Sunday, 20 May 2012 19:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Geezer, doing it for the people.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 20 May 2012 19:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

Josh, I wanna know why Kot isn't writing about this. Since the C3 promoters made a very explicit point to state that the headliner would be "all four original members". like the guy, but he slobs at Lolla's knob every year.

Stormy Davis, Sunday, 20 May 2012 20:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think it just happened a couple of days ago, right? I bet it shows up, but DeRo is a bigger bee on Perry's bonnet.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 20 May 2012 21:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wonder if E3 will do the right thing and offer refunds to the five people who would take them.

How was the Birmingham show, er, charity event received?

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 20 May 2012 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Answer: well-received. Setlist:

INTO THE VOID
UNDER THE SUN
SNOWBLIND
WAR PIGS
WHEELS OF CONFUSION
ELECTRIC FUNERAL
BLACK SABBATH
THE WIZARD
BEHIND THE WALL OF
SLEEP
NIB
FAIRIES WEAR BOOTS
LORD OF THIS WORLD
TOMORROW’S DREAM
SWEET LEAF
SYMPTOM OF THE
UNIVERSE
IRON MAN
DIRTY WOMEN
CHILDREN OF THE
GRAVE
SABBATH BLOODY
SABBATH
PARANOID

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 20 May 2012 21:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Damn good setlist.

EZ Snappin, Sunday, 20 May 2012 21:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

Jesus. You sure can't fuck with that setlist. my god

Stormy Davis, Sunday, 20 May 2012 21:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

"Wheels of Confusion" for fucks sake

Stormy Davis, Sunday, 20 May 2012 21:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

A ridiculously great setlist...and no Bill Ward. So mind boggling.

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 20 May 2012 21:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

any money this is how The Stone Roses gigs end up.

piscesx, Sunday, 20 May 2012 21:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

If the Stone Roses ended up doing nothing but Black Sabbath covers that would be kinda amazing.

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 20 May 2012 21:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

Maybe they can get Ward to sit in on drums.

EZ Snappin, Sunday, 20 May 2012 21:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

There has been a long storied history of old classic rock drummers somehow getting with younger bands. Ginger Baker in Masters of Reality, Paul Thompson in Concrete Blonde. Um ...

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 20 May 2012 22:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Kenney Jones played on a Primal Scream record.

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Sunday, 20 May 2012 22:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

Bone Thugs 'N Harmony and Phil Collins amirite

Goodbye 20th Centipede (NickB), Sunday, 20 May 2012 22:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mo Tucker with the cruddy indie band that she toured with about 12 years ago? so bland and non-descript that I can't remember their name and can't be bothered to google. Only time I've seen Mo, though, and she was so sweet. @ the Empty Bottle

Stormy Davis, Sunday, 20 May 2012 23:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

She did something with Half Japanese, didn't she?

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 20 May 2012 23:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mick Fleetwood played on that one Matthew Sweet record.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 20 May 2012 23:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

nah, wasn't Half Jap .. i actually did buckle and check Mo's wiki and the shit isn't even mentioned there :-/

Stormy Davis, Sunday, 20 May 2012 23:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mike Joyce was briefly in Suede.

piscesx, Sunday, 20 May 2012 23:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Moe worked w/Magnet.

Leslie Mann: Boner Machine (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 21 May 2012 00:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

Elvin Jones toured with Hood

cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 21 May 2012 00:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

ok not really

cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 21 May 2012 00:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

ah, Magnet. google says that must have been it. god what a slog that show was. Seeing Mo at the Empty Bottle was super great, tho!!

Stormy Davis, Monday, 21 May 2012 00:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

Response To Geezer’s Statement

Posted on May.20, 2012 under Black Sabbath

Dear Sabbath Fans and Musicians,

I have read Geezer’s statement of May 19, 2012 titled “Heavy Heart.” Out of respect for the Birmingham gig, I wanted to wait 24 hours before releasing this statement. There are some points he brought up which I want to respond to.

1) I had indeed notified Ozzy, Tony and Geezer, well before my first public statement, that I was having contractual difficulties.

2) I came out into a public forum to be accountable to the fans primarily, and to say at a public level there’s a problem. The band members stopped talking and corresponding with me some time ago, with the exception of a nice letter from Tony on my birthday. Prior to that, Geezer and I were corresponding, but that stopped abruptly in late February after I emailed a specific question to him.

3) In my statement of May 15, I clearly stated I would play Birmingham for free. That was not a problem – charity or otherwise.

4) My Download fee was not an extravagant amount. Originally, when Download was part of a full tour, I had asked for a decent fee. More recently, as we were negotiating just Download/Birmingham and Lollapalooza, I told my attorney that I would accept the proposed small Download fee, but there were other parts of the offer that were unsatisfactory.

I will continue to be honest and respectful towards the band and our fans. I will also confront any untruths about me, and any fault finding missions aimed at me that come to my attention.

I hope the band and the fans had a good gig in Brum.

Stay safe/stay strong.
Bill Ward

it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Monday, 21 May 2012 00:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

No Supernaut, no credibility.

I must be old, I recognise nobody in ITV2 idents (aldo), Monday, 21 May 2012 02:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

Bill's statements totally pass the smell test imho

Sisig Steve (stevie), Monday, 21 May 2012 07:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

You realise that eventually Universal will run out of semi-dormant or struggling record labels to buy, and will start buying up semi-dormant or struggling 'Legacy' band incorporations?

And that by the year 2201, Morrissey will be the sole member of Black Sabbath?

Mark G, Monday, 21 May 2012 08:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

That setlist rules. No Supernaut though, which is weird, especially if they are playing Under the Sun and Tomorrow's Dream. Play those 3 and Cornucopia, and you can call it the Vol. 4 Tour.

this is true: "3) In my statement of May 15, I clearly stated I would play Birmingham for free. That was not a problem – charity or otherwise."

Still with Bill here.

One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Monday, 21 May 2012 13:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

who sat in for ward at birmingham?

akm, Monday, 21 May 2012 14:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ozzy's drummer.

EZ Snappin, Monday, 21 May 2012 14:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

The Stone Roses would play Supernaut. Top buzz.

Ima Skim Read That Bitch (Doran), Monday, 21 May 2012 23:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

well, you can check out what the ward-less sabbath sounded like here: http://bigozine2.com/roio/?p=1103

tylerw, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 16:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm sure they sounded just fine. I've interviewed Tommy Clufetos (the sub drummer) and he says he strives to play old songs in a familiar manner without changing the arrangements or getting all crazy. Prior to working with Ozzy, he was Rob Zombie's drummer, and before that he played with Alice Cooper and Ted Nugent.

誤訳侮辱, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 16:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

But there was never any question of that. They could find a million people to play these songs; they're generally not that challenging. Ironically, only Ozzy can't be replaced. But a reunion is a reunion, and if they're not all there, it is not a reunion.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 16:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's a farce. Fuck Tommy Clufetos

One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 18:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

anybody who doesn't have a fuck tommy clufetos tatttoo by this time next week is posing

cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 18:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

post your pics

it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 18:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

I shouldn't skim. I thought aero wrote "anyone who doesn't fuck tommy clufetos by this time next week is posing". If you miss the tattoo part it seems overly ambitious.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 18:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

only the most kvlt will fuck tommy clufetos

cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 19:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

impale him on your blackened painis.

but he go's to a resturang and then die in a toilet (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 19:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

I thought that said blackened paninis for a minute and didn't see how that was tr00 or KVLT.

I must be old, I recognise nobody in ITV2 idents (aldo), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 19:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

fucking a panini machine would be metal as hell though.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 19:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

Only if it was the devil's panini machine.

Hellhamster 2: Hamster Smashed Face (J3ff T.), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 19:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

sick sick sex.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 19:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

7 months pass...

NEW ALBUM NEWS

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Sunday, 13 January 2013 17:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

Nude album nudes.

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 13 January 2013 17:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

No thank you.

afriendlypioneer, Sunday, 13 January 2013 17:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'm sure I'll give it at least one listen, but it's very fair to say I'm not expecting much.

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Sunday, 13 January 2013 17:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

I have to say the Rubin treatment is the only possibility of this being good but my expectations are low

too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 13 January 2013 18:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

Had a brief discussion w/Adrien yesterday re the album title - my theory is that 13 counts the 8 albums with Ozzy, the 3 with Dio (including Dehumanizer) and Born Again. Sorry, Glenn Hughes and Tony Martin - you don't count.

誤訳侮辱, Sunday, 13 January 2013 19:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

What's rubin's track record for these late-in-the game comeback jobs? I'm assuming the first Cash one would be at the top, but a poll might be interesting.

WARS OF ARMAGEDDON (Karaoke Version) (Sparkle Motion), Sunday, 13 January 2013 20:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

His work on Ballbreaker is tremendous. Easily the best-produced post-Lange AC/DC record.

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Sunday, 13 January 2013 20:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

I like Ballbreaker. I also like Death Magnetic a whole lot, though.

誤訳侮辱, Sunday, 13 January 2013 20:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

"He's just a vibe merchant, really. He vibes you up. He's not one who gets involved hands-on," Iommi said. "He leaves it to you to do it and he sort of says, 'Yeah, I like it,' you know, or, 'I don't like it.'"

In Shut Up and Sing it's evident that Rubin didn't even set foot in the studio for the Dixie Chicks' Taking The Long Way. They show up at his house and play him what they've done so far. He says "Nice chorus" or "That sounds good." The only reasonable conclusion one could draw is that he's running a con job. Coincidentally or not, the production on that record is abysmal.

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Sunday, 13 January 2013 20:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

Rubin produced the third Slipknot album, and their singer, Corey Taylor, said this about that in 2011:

"There are some people who would love for me to toe the party line, which is basically, 'Working with Rick Rubin was a very enriching experience.' Let me give you the fucking truth of it: Rick Rubin showed up for 45 minutes a week. Rick Rubin would then, during that 45 minutes, lay on a couch and have a mic brought in next to his face so he wouldn't have to move...The Rick Rubin of today is a thin, thin, thin shadow of the Rick Rubin that he was. He is overrated, he is overpaid, and I will never work with him again as long as I fucking live."

誤訳侮辱, Sunday, 13 January 2013 20:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

Jakob Dylan also laid on the Rubin hate in a recent WTF interview.

sean gramophone, Sunday, 13 January 2013 20:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

you lazy for this one rick

tylerw, Sunday, 13 January 2013 20:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

Nice to finally hear someone call Rubin out. Really seems like he's been coasting on his rep for a while. But it benefits both parties: bands get the "cred" (such as it is) and resulting uptick in sales (however small) of having Rubin's name on their record (sound apparently being a secondary concern), and Rubin gets the dough.

xp

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Sunday, 13 January 2013 20:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

This has been the deal w/Rubin forever and forever - can he actually engineer at all?

too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 13 January 2013 22:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

I assume (perhaps naively) that he must have some rudimentary engineering knowledge, at the very least.

I wouldn't think he was overrated if he was a serious non-engineering motivator a la Guy Stevens or Kit Lambert. But "hm, good chorus" does not production make.

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Sunday, 13 January 2013 22:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

iirc in that Jay-Z doc RR was in there making beats like he did in the 80s. but as far as having any hands-on involvement when making a record means putting mics in front of instruments and putting hands on the mixing board, yeah.

some dude, Sunday, 13 January 2013 22:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

lots of bands have started doing an album with Rubin and then fired him or parted ways to finish it w/o him: U2, Weezer Crosby Stills & Nash, Velvet Revolver, Hot Hot Heat

some dude, Sunday, 13 January 2013 23:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

On those first four Danzig albums, he's producer on the first few, "executive producer" on the fourth one. Either way, he tends to use great studios and obviously hires some excellent engineers. But yeah, Reign in Blood was a long time ago.

I hope he can help Sabbath not sound overproduced. The Heaven & Hell record was perfect. I don't believe this will be nearly as good as that was.

Nate Carson, Sunday, 13 January 2013 23:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

gonna need a lot of smoothing for Ozzy's vocals, and pitch correction.....Dio was still singing pretty incredibly on that H&H studio album, but yeah the production on that was perfect for what they were doing.

NINO CARTER, Monday, 14 January 2013 01:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

Rubin produced the third Slipknot album, and their singer, Corey Taylor, said this about that in 2011:

"There are some people who would love for me to toe the party line, which is basically, 'Working with Rick Rubin was a very enriching experience.' Let me give you the fucking truth of it: Rick Rubin showed up for 45 minutes a week. Rick Rubin would then, during that 45 minutes, lay on a couch and have a mic brought in next to his face so he wouldn't have to move...The Rick Rubin of today is a thin, thin, thin shadow of the Rick Rubin that he was. He is overrated, he is overpaid, and I will never work with him again as long as I fucking live."

― 誤訳侮辱, Sunday, January 13, 2013 3:41 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is kinda awesome tbh

If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Monday, 14 January 2013 01:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

Not if you're in the band, I would imagine.

誤訳侮辱, Monday, 14 January 2013 01:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah stories like that are great if you hate the musicians who had to watch their session go to shit I guess

too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 14 January 2013 01:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

Rick Rubin has been coasting on his Rubin-aura for a long-assed time. Half the people I hear that talk about how incredible he is usually have no recent examples when asked for reasons why.

(I did not like Death Magnetic, fwiw...)

NINO CARTER, Monday, 14 January 2013 01:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

New album news with Rubin producing does not surprise me. Someone liking Death Crapnetic does, though.

calstars, Monday, 14 January 2013 02:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

Not really a true successor to Never Say Die without Ward. Bill's been treated like shit

One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Monday, 14 January 2013 03:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

Instead of a fraud like rubin, they should just see if the guy who set the dials on Master of Reality is still alive and coherent. That's all they need.

One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Monday, 14 January 2013 03:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

If you really need a "vibe merchant" you should be playing golf and not wasting your time. I got a good name for a vibe merchant: Bill fucking Ward

One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Monday, 14 January 2013 03:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

I got a good name for a vibe merchant: Bill fucking Ward

*massive stadium-sized applause*

sleeve, Monday, 14 January 2013 03:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

XD

some dude, Monday, 14 January 2013 03:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

you have to give them credit for finding a drummer with the same number of letters in his name as Bill, anyway

too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 14 January 2013 03:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

I hope the songs sound nothing like "Psycho Man"

NINO CARTER, Monday, 14 January 2013 03:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

Nude album nudes.

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:34 PM (Yesterday

Ned, it's January and you haven't revived the "Symptom Of The Universe" thread yet! OR LAST YEAR, EITHER!!

Faster than food (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 14 January 2013 14:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

The chopped and screwed mixes that NEEDED to happen!

http://livefromthekitchen.bandcamp.com/album/screwing-yourself-to-live-a-chopped-slowed-tribute-to-black-sabbath

Neil S, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 10:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

Was Iommi conscious that he was using the Dorian mode or did it just evolve naturally?

calstars, Friday, 16 May 2014 20:53 (3 months ago) Permalink


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