Thu Jul 29, 8:13 AM ET
HILTON HEAD ISLAND, S.C. - Bill Cosby (news) defended his controversial comments on blacks, adding that the music industry is "glorifying the wrong things" as he spoke about parenting and children at a college conference.
Cosby, 67, made headlines in May when he criticized some blacks for their grammar and accused them of squandering opportunities the civil rights movement gave them. Then earlier this month, Cosby said blacks should not blame whites for their problems and urged them to re-examine their own lives.
"I'm going to keep on saying what I've been saying," he said Wednesday, speaking to a group representing 118 historically black colleges and universities nationwide, the National Association for Equal Opportunity in Higher Education.
On Wednesday, he said the music industry glorifies music that demeans women, praises life in jail and uses profanity.
He said college educators should prepare students to help poor blacks from backgrounds of violence and single-mother households.
Instead of joining the Peace Corps and going to Africa, "go across the street into the projects. These are people who need to see another picture, a brighter picture," he said.
― shookout (shookout), Thursday, 29 July 2004 17:16 (nineteen years ago) link
― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 29 July 2004 17:19 (nineteen years ago) link
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 29 July 2004 17:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― AaronHz (AaronHz), Thursday, 29 July 2004 17:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― rentboy (rentboy), Thursday, 29 July 2004 17:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― Joseph McCombs, Thursday, 29 July 2004 17:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 29 July 2004 17:30 (nineteen years ago) link
― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 29 July 2004 17:33 (nineteen years ago) link
xpost
― Huck, Thursday, 29 July 2004 17:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 29 July 2004 17:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 29 July 2004 17:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― chuck, Thursday, 29 July 2004 18:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― St. Nicholas (Nick A.), Thursday, 29 July 2004 18:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 29 July 2004 18:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 29 July 2004 18:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 29 July 2004 18:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 29 July 2004 18:22 (nineteen years ago) link
― chuck, Thursday, 29 July 2004 18:31 (nineteen years ago) link
Anyway, I was just gonna say that Michael's "Old Man" description still makes it sound astoundingly prescient from a hip-hop perspective. How often did people do ANYTHING like that, in the pre-rap years??
― chuck, Thursday, 29 July 2004 18:33 (nineteen years ago) link
Chuck, you'll be amused to know Mr. Miccio parodied your style brilliantly here -- down to the brackets.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 July 2004 18:36 (nineteen years ago) link
-- chuck (cedd...) (webmail), July 29th, 2004 12:33 PM. (later) (link)
"deck of cards"!
― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 29 July 2004 18:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― Bum Lik-King Fargit (bumlikkingfargit), Thursday, 29 July 2004 18:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 29 July 2004 19:01 (nineteen years ago) link
― chuck, Thursday, 29 July 2004 19:25 (nineteen years ago) link
― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 29 July 2004 19:38 (nineteen years ago) link
-- chuck
I totally agree with this. Kids making their own world in a decaying city has become a theme of early hip-hop & that was definitely true of the Cosby Show.
― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 29 July 2004 19:45 (nineteen years ago) link
this reminded me of how awesome bill cosby is.
― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 29 July 2004 19:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 July 2004 19:48 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 29 July 2004 20:01 (nineteen years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 29 July 2004 20:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― shookout (shookout), Thursday, 29 July 2004 20:24 (nineteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 July 2004 20:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kingfish von Bandersnatch (Kingfish), Thursday, 29 July 2004 20:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Friday, 30 July 2004 03:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Friday, 30 July 2004 03:48 (nineteen years ago) link
That was the first movie I saw alone in a theater (7 1/2 years old). My mom periodically checked in on me and brought me chocolate chip cookies.
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:40 (nineteen years ago) link
― anthony, Friday, 30 July 2004 11:32 (nineteen years ago) link
― briania (briania), Friday, 30 July 2004 11:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― briania (briania), Friday, 30 July 2004 11:49 (nineteen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 30 July 2004 18:18 (nineteen years ago) link
OT, I know, but there is an entire series out there called "Classroom Scare Films". I wonder how the crack films compare to the LSD ones we had to watch. "Dead is Dead" - that's not the one where the kid is in his coffin but doesn't realize he's dead, is it?
― Kerry (dymaxia), Friday, 30 July 2004 18:31 (nineteen years ago) link
Hey Cosby, how about taking your message into the projects, instead of speaking at colleges? His whole "black man, help yourself" screed doesn't play out as well when he's telling it to people with degrees.
― mike h. (mike h.), Friday, 30 July 2004 18:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 30 July 2004 18:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Friday, 30 July 2004 18:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Friday, 30 July 2004 18:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― briania (briania), Friday, 30 July 2004 18:59 (nineteen years ago) link
Curious. When was the last time that he actually taught a class of kids? And since educators tend to use music lyrics to educate their students these days, hip hop isn't totally useless.
― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Friday, 30 July 2004 19:06 (nineteen years ago) link
― shookout (shookout), Saturday, 31 July 2004 15:16 (nineteen years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 31 July 2004 15:47 (nineteen years ago) link
eh?
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 31 July 2004 22:55 (nineteen years ago) link
It's ridiculous. People have been going to the movies to see sex and violence and various extreme situations for a hundred years now, and has it totally destroyed our Social Fabric? Sure, many American black people indulge in the stupidest things and maybe they ought to be reading Henry James and rebuiding their neighborhoods...in fact, many of them are engaged in rebuilding their communities. The problems many non-rich folks in this country face have far less to do with pop culture than with deep systemic problems in the larger culture. Bill Cosby may have been a funny guy at one time but he really needs to shut the fuck up.
― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Sunday, 1 August 2004 20:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 1 August 2004 20:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 1 August 2004 20:55 (nineteen years ago) link
omigod talking so much shit on Tim Russert's show now...
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 14 October 2007 14:21 (sixteen years ago) link
Cosby is seemingly fourteen months away from having a O'Reilly/Glen Beck/Lou Dobbsesque talk show.
― Cunga, Sunday, 14 October 2007 16:56 (sixteen years ago) link
http://funky16corners.wordpress.com/2006/10/30/bill-cosby-funky-north-phildelphia/
http://www.dickdestiny.com/blog/2007/10/music-for-monday-hooray-for-salvation.html
― xhuxk, Sunday, 14 October 2007 17:26 (sixteen years ago) link
http://christonium.com/politicalmusings/ItemID=11923775652574
Bill Cosby says the audience for Gangster Rap is made up mostly of Whites. This adds to the negative stereotype for Blacks. The "Gangster Rappers" use of negative stereotype comments in their videos provide the opportunity for young whites to use those very same words, "N" words.
Dr. Poussaint talks of "values" having been corrupted. The lyrics in the rap music and videos portray young blacks as unimportant. This prevails throughout the black community.
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 14 October 2007 17:46 (sixteen years ago) link
Sunday, Oct. 14 with Tim Russert on Meet the Press Entertainer Bill Cosby and Harvard Medical School Psychiatry Professor Dr. Alvin Poussaint tackle the controversial and complicated issues facing black communities across the nation and discuss their new book, "Come On, People: On the Path from Victims to Victors."
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 14 October 2007 17:49 (sixteen years ago) link
Here's the transcript http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21293963/page/2/
DR. POUSSAINT: They took part of the N-word and put part of the white word and called themselves wiggers.
MR. COSBY: But you see, when youth does that, you have to understand that youth—these are, these are kids, they, they don’t have the responsibilities that, that we have. They don’t have to have a job. They don’t have to support a family. They don’t have to buy insurance. They—so they’re, they’re free-forming and they’re freewheeling. It’s the people who make these records. It’s the, it’s the guy in the boardroom. I have another friend of mine who said to me, “I, I write rap lyrics.” He said, “And I went to a man”—I mean, “I went to work, and the guy said, the executive said to me, ‘I want lyrics about rape. Rape is good.’” He said, “And I looked at the guy, and I said, ‘You’re talking about my mother.’ And the guy said, ‘Well, if you don’t want to write it, then I’ll get somebody else who will.’” But, see, all these things, this dopamine-raising level. Alvin has a very interesting viewpoint on whether or not kids are listening to the lyrics. Because if you, if you challenge them, you say, “Why are you listening to that?” They say, “I’m not listening to the words. I just like the beat.”
DR. POUSSAINT: Which is nonsense. They’re listening to the—they got to hear the words. And the, the young, young girls will be dancing to words that degrade women and degrade them and they’re dancing to it. It shows you how much values have been corrupted, you know, by some of the media influences, and the young people can’t distinguish between what’s right and wrong. It’s like the, the bad stuff has become normal, and then they even see it as part of their culture instead of something that’s abhorrent and, and, and, and hurtful to their, to their lives and to their community.
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 14 October 2007 17:58 (sixteen years ago) link
I know! I can't tell how many times I've gone to my office to work hard at my job of writing rap lyrics and found on my desk a memo like this from some Caucasian executive: "Rape sells. Especially mother-rape. Give me 16 bars on it by noon or you go back to the mail room." Please withhold my name until I can secure federal whistle-blower protection.
― mulla atari, Sunday, 14 October 2007 18:07 (sixteen years ago) link
Ten points for Cosby shoehorning "entropy" and "inertia" into his sentences.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 14 October 2007 18:17 (sixteen years ago) link
I have another friend of mine who said to me, “I, I write rap lyrics.” He said, “And I went to a man”—I mean, “I went to work, and the guy said, the executive said to me, ‘I want lyrics about rape. Rape is good.’” He said, “And I looked at the guy, and I said, ‘You’re talking about my mother.’ And the guy said, ‘Well, if you don’t want to write it, then I’ll get somebody else who will.’”
This obviously happened to Eminem.
― da croupier, Sunday, 14 October 2007 18:26 (sixteen years ago) link
If only Tim Russert had asked him who that exec is...
― curmudgeon, Monday, 15 October 2007 14:45 (sixteen years ago) link
Cos' take on this shit is both OTM and brave, for a gazillion reasons.
― Naive Teen Idol, Monday, 15 October 2007 14:53 (sixteen years ago) link
brave yes, otm not really. its taking a much more nuanced situation and trying to find the bad guys in a very specific place. the real 'bad guys' wd actually require a much more sweeping indictment of american culture & systematic white privilege and oppression
― deej, Monday, 15 October 2007 14:56 (sixteen years ago) link
I'm with Cosby until he gets feisty about hippety-hoppety lyrics.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 15 October 2007 15:04 (sixteen years ago) link
He needs more nuance, although I must say I'm bored with the UGK cd lyrics('n' this and 'b' that) and not too crazy about the sentiments expressed there (whether it has great soul music samples or not)--That "2 kinds of B's" song. But I guess I am supposed to excuse them because those type of sentiments have long been expressed by folks of all colors,classes, and creeds; school systems and housing have long been segregated resulting in the parents of many of the participants on the UGK cd, and the participants themselves having difficult lives, Texas' Republican governors; and well those soul samples sure sound good.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 15 October 2007 15:17 (sixteen years ago) link
why what stops you there?
― blueski, Monday, 15 October 2007 15:24 (sixteen years ago) link
I'm amazed that a comedian who understood the value of irony and timing as well as anyone in his generation is this tone-deaf about how music and lyrics work.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 15 October 2007 15:27 (sixteen years ago) link
Bullshit. The "irony" argument may have been passable with "Cop Killer" 15 years ago -- it isn't now.
― Naive Teen Idol, Monday, 15 October 2007 16:36 (sixteen years ago) link
plz explain how cop killer is ironic but kanye sampling daft punk & lil wayne rapping about man-purses is hurting the community
― and what, Monday, 15 October 2007 16:38 (sixteen years ago) link
who the fuck thought cop killer was ironic
― deej, Monday, 15 October 2007 16:38 (sixteen years ago) link
doh xp
― deej, Monday, 15 October 2007 16:39 (sixteen years ago) link
we simply must not allow young black men to continue to crank dat soulja boy - lets take it back to the carefree, ironic days of 'aint no fun' and 'black korea'
― and what, Monday, 15 October 2007 16:42 (sixteen years ago) link
lol
― J0hn D., Monday, 15 October 2007 17:41 (sixteen years ago) link
yeah like no one complained about those songs.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 15 October 2007 18:10 (sixteen years ago) link
(I mean come on Ice Cube took a LOT of shit in the press for Black Korea, Doggystyle was specifically brought up for criticism in the House of Reps, etc.)
― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 15 October 2007 18:11 (sixteen years ago) link
also Cop Killer is excusable not because its ironic but because its good storytelling and hey, you know, fuck cops.
jokes, bruv?
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 15 October 2007 18:51 (sixteen years ago) link
so they’re, they’re free-forming and they’re freewheeling so they’re, they’re free-forming and they’re freewheeling so they’re, they’re free-forming and they’re freewheeling so they’re, they’re free-forming and they’re freewheeling so they’re, they’re free-forming and they’re freewheeling so they’re, they’re free-forming and they’re freewheeling so they’re, they’re free-forming and they’re freewheeling so they’re, they’re free-forming and they’re freewheeling so they’re, they’re free-forming and they’re freewheeling so they’re, they’re free-forming and they’re freewheeling
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 15 October 2007 18:55 (sixteen years ago) link
I like the part where he complains about giggling on buses. Bill Cosby hates the laughter of children! times done changed.
― da croupier, Monday, 15 October 2007 18:58 (sixteen years ago) link
I have a friend. Her name is Jessica Pope, and she spoke at a—or two or three of the callouts. She’s a graduate of Swathmore. She’s African-American. She’s from Memphis, Tennessee. And she spoke to the people and she said, “I want you to think of your children like you think of, of a genie in the lamp.” In that we all know the story of the genie in the lamp. There’s a genie, and she also equates genie with genius, genie/genius. So in order to have the genie come out of the lamp and grant you your three wishes, you rub the lamp. You rub it, the genie comes out and grants you three wishes. She then says, “Think of your child that way. Rub your child. Stroke you child like this magical lamp. The genie/genius will come out.” And then I add to it, and the other two wishes you can put in your hip pocket and save for a rainy day.
― da croupier, Monday, 15 October 2007 19:00 (sixteen years ago) link
It’s cursing and it’s calling each other niggers as they walk up and down the street. They think they’re hip. They can’t read; they can’t write. Fifty percent of them. They, they, they take it into the candy store. They, they put it—they put themselves on the train and on the buses, and they don’t even care what color or what age somebody else is. It’s about them and their cursing and grabbing each other and laughing and giggling and going nowhere.
I thought there was a bungled 50 Cent reference in this but then I realized it's a quote from 2004.
― da croupier, Monday, 15 October 2007 19:05 (sixteen years ago) link
Results 1 - 10 of about 168 for bill-cosby crotchety-old-man.
― dad a, Monday, 15 October 2007 19:12 (sixteen years ago) link
ya see Theo, YA SEE
― sanskrit, Monday, 15 October 2007 19:25 (sixteen years ago) link
haha every time I read one of these quotes I imagine it in the voice of Bathtub Cosby.
― will, Monday, 15 October 2007 19:28 (sixteen years ago) link
lol @ "they take it into the candy store"
― Alex in Baltimore, Monday, 15 October 2007 19:35 (sixteen years ago) link
Shakey Mo did you get a sarcasm immunity shot or something?
― J0hn D., Monday, 15 October 2007 19:39 (sixteen years ago) link
http://www.internerd.com/frinky/images/screenshots/sarcasmdet.jpg
― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 15 October 2007 19:41 (sixteen years ago) link
I just don't get how pointing out that hip-hop's basically always had violent/mysognistic elements in it somehow invalidates Cosby's critique.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 15 October 2007 19:45 (sixteen years ago) link
http://www.heffadesign.com/COVERS/Single_Promo/images/50Cent%20-%20Candy%20Shop.jpg
― bnw, Monday, 15 October 2007 19:48 (sixteen years ago) link
I mean we all know what musical era Cosby would like to dial back to (civil rights era/bebop)
x-post
― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 15 October 2007 19:48 (sixteen years ago) link
Kinda with Shakey here: I don't really understand the LOLs/shocka aspect of Cosby being among millions of older Civil Rights-era black Americans who are annoyed by how what's considered "black culture" looks these days -- he's not even that batty in how he talks about it. (Batty, sure, but not that batty.)
― nabisco, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:03 (sixteen years ago) link
What do you expect, nabisco? This is ILM we're talking about; pretty much any time Bill Cosby gets brought up, it's in the context of young white guys getting defensive about listening to black people call each other "nigger".
― HI DERE, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:07 (sixteen years ago) link
who's getting defensive?
― da croupier, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:11 (sixteen years ago) link
Up until just now, not you.
― HI DERE, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:12 (sixteen years ago) link
Whatever. I just think one can find rappers lacking as role models and still find Cosby's rants incredibly batty, crotchety, what have you.
I'm kinda curious about this loaded statement: They, they put it—they put themselves on the train and on the buses, and they don’t even care what color or what age somebody else is. Why does the race of your fellow bus patron matter?
― da croupier, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:16 (sixteen years ago) link
The writers for Law & Order: SVU?
― mulla atari, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:16 (sixteen years ago) link
Two strands here. I think Ethan was responding to this:
...and he was right: what "'irony' argument"? There isn't & wasn't one, as far as I know; there was and remains a personified narrator trope, in which I believe, that can be advanced to explain a song like "Cop Killer," I think persuasively.
The other strand is white men on ilm explaining each other how neither "nigger" nor "bitch" are at all degrading when the musicians they like use them, and that strand I won't be touching with a ten-foot pole.
― J0hn D., Monday, 15 October 2007 20:17 (sixteen years ago) link
can we name names on this latter strand?
― da croupier, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:17 (sixteen years ago) link
bebop is pretty rad
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:18 (sixteen years ago) link
^^^this
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:18 (sixteen years ago) link
haha Dan you wanna field that one?
― J0hn D., Monday, 15 October 2007 20:20 (sixteen years ago) link
Also, he's old.
The other strand is white men on ilm explaining each other how neither "nigger" nor "bitch" are at all degrading when the musicians they like use them
Prof. Isiah Thomas of NYU says that the word "bitch" is Negro for something much less offensive than the white man thinks.
― Cunga, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:20 (sixteen years ago) link
-- HI DERE, Monday, October 15, 2007 8:07 PM
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:29 (sixteen years ago) link
i'm just gonna let that sit there.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:30 (sixteen years ago) link
thanksbighoosakathesteedriver.jpg
― deej, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:39 (sixteen years ago) link
i don't get it what you mean hoos.
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:39 (sixteen years ago) link
oh unless....
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:42 (sixteen years ago) link
LETS GO RACE THREAD *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* LETS GO RACE THREAD *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* LETS GO RACE THREAD *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* LETS GO RACE THREAD *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* LETS GO RACE THREAD *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* LETS GO RACE THREAD *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* LETS GO RACE THREAD *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* LETS GO RACE THREAD *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* LETS GO RACE THREAD *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* LETS GO RACE THREAD *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* LETS GO RACE THREAD *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP*
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:45 (sixteen years ago) link
why does black people never want to goth?
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:45 (sixteen years ago) link
haah while looking for thanksbighoos.jpg i found this:
I think black people would either be more or perhaps less likely to kick a drunk woman out of a hotel for calling a gay coworker a fag. Does ILX have an opinion on this?
-- Dom Passantino, Sunday, May 27, 2007 3:05 PM (4 months ago) Bookmark Link
― deej, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:49 (sixteen years ago) link
It's the question that needs to be answered.
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:49 (sixteen years ago) link
"Y'see Theo, when you call my gay co-worker a fag, y'see..." etc etc etc etc
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:50 (sixteen years ago) link
I think I'm going to sit this one out.
― The Reverend, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:53 (sixteen years ago) link
should bill cosby kick jay blanchard out of a hotel for calling ronaldinho a fag?
― deej, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:53 (sixteen years ago) link
Depends how much he tipped.
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:56 (sixteen years ago) link
"The most important reason for the decline of musical miscegenation, however, is social progress. Black musicians are now as visible and as influential as white ones." http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/musical/2007/10/22/071022crmu_music_frerejones?currentPage=1 dear cos, everything is fine. yours, sfj
― kamerad, Monday, 15 October 2007 22:46 (sixteen years ago) link
everything is fine?
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 15 October 2007 22:51 (sixteen years ago) link
This really deserves its own thread (or just to be ignored), but WOW I love how he makes his thesis about how rap and rock couldn't be further apart by dismissing rap-metal and hip-hop influenced pop-rock as "commercial, if generally unappealing" even though it's sold shitloads more than Flaming Lips, Wilco and every other white act he'd rather blather about in relation to Snoop Dogg.
― da croupier, Monday, 15 October 2007 22:57 (sixteen years ago) link
and all the indie rap groups that are actually pretty much rock groups like why? and all that anticon type stuff.
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 15 October 2007 22:59 (sixteen years ago) link
Linkin Park? What's a Linkin Park? Are they as big as Devendra?
― da croupier, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:01 (sixteen years ago) link
I only read the first page of that article and I'm not sure I want to read the rest.
― HI DERE, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:06 (sixteen years ago) link
I'm glad he's articulating what I find...troubling about the likes of Panda Bear, but his ill-advised journey through the last 35 years of rock stops the thing cold (although, what I know, maybe this is news to New Yorker readers). And then stuff like this:
Last month, in the Times, the white folk rocker Devendra Banhart declared his admiration for R. Kelly’s new R. & B. album “Double Up.” Thirty years ago, Banhart might have attempted to imitate R. Kelly’s perverse and feather-light soul. Now he’s just a fan
Substitute "white folk rocker Joni Mitchell" for Devendra and "admiration for Marvin Gaye's new Let's Get It On" and it's not as far-fetched as he thinks.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:11 (sixteen years ago) link
*although, what do I know
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:12 (sixteen years ago) link
Maroon 5? Gym Class Heroes? White Stripes? Those aren't popular "rock" bands really, they're not as relevant to the discussion as the Fiery Furnaces and Panda Bear.
― da croupier, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:12 (sixteen years ago) link
When discussing the history of rock bands mining black music for inspiration, it's important to ignore all acts that reach shooting range of gold.
― da croupier, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:13 (sixteen years ago) link
I see that he's now calling his own old group Ui, a funk band. Did he always do that--I seem to recall them being considered a postrock band or some such. Parts of the article make sense to me, but then elsewhere he 's got unsupported statements that I strongly disagree with. Am not sure what Bill Cosby would think. Sasha's been warning on his blog that he was gonna post or write something that would get attention. I guess this it it (it's a followup of something he presented at the EMP a few years back, isn't it?).
― curmudgeon, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:14 (sixteen years ago) link
the real question: would Cliff, Claire, and Sandra Huxtable have gone to a Ui concert?
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:15 (sixteen years ago) link
relax people there's always been honky music, it's not a crime
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:16 (sixteen years ago) link
indie musicians making shitty music bcuz of cowardly indecision = new yorker article
― deej, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:17 (sixteen years ago) link
I think that article's pretty good - cringeworthy references to own music and debatable cherrypicking of history aside - certainly it articulates a dynamic that seems readily apparent to me, and has been for quite some time (at least, as he notes, since the early 90s and Pavement)
― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:18 (sixteen years ago) link
um, college rock in the 80s was plenty white too
― da croupier, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:19 (sixteen years ago) link
and the entire history of the British charts in the 1980's.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:20 (sixteen years ago) link
i miss the ass shakin' beats of dino jr. and throwing muses
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:20 (sixteen years ago) link
i mean if we're gonna focus solely on art-rock, we can take this much further back than Pavement.
― da croupier, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:21 (sixteen years ago) link
Whatever -- it's an article in the goddamn New Yorker! I don't expect its audience to understand the distinctions between a Style Council record and Panda Bear's attempts to studiously avoid sounding like a Style Council record.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:22 (sixteen years ago) link
hahaha
― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:23 (sixteen years ago) link
i never really got why it was so bad that some indie rock wasn't danceable or sounded white or whatever, excepting like douchebags that think indie is inherently superior, like i dunno there's got to be music for dancing, there's got to be music for being unemployed and sitting around at 2 in the afternoon feeling sorry for yourself and smoking schwag.
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:24 (sixteen years ago) link
ew!
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:24 (sixteen years ago) link
nobody said it's bad, we're just laughing at the idea that this is news or has anything to do with a decrease in "miscegenation" in popular music.
― da croupier, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:25 (sixteen years ago) link
i wish he would finish upending the canon and just stop talking about bad indie bands altogether.
― deej, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:25 (sixteen years ago) link
its weird - one thing he doesn't get into at all is how the Rock Music Industry(tm) basically ruined the blues as source material with its endless parade of cheesy white guitarists trying to bee authentic (see: Blueshammer by way of Clapton). White guys appropriating blues became such a bad, egregious aesthetic and political error that it basically sped an entire generation (punk generation, cf. Talking Heads' "no blues rule", Greg Ginn, etc.) in the opposite direction.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:26 (sixteen years ago) link
but then he'd have to deal with the commercial if generally unappealing, deej!
― da croupier, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:26 (sixteen years ago) link
the real horrifying idea would be IF arcade fire decided to incorporate hip hop influences
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:27 (sixteen years ago) link
One shouldn't be forced to think about tacky things like popular rock bands when discussing rock history
― da croupier, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:27 (sixteen years ago) link
history is written by the losers
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:30 (sixteen years ago) link
http://www.publispain.com/posters/revenge_of_the_nerds.jpg
― da croupier, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:30 (sixteen years ago) link
I'd have been more comfortable with a reactionary but worthy-of-discussion-in-a-mainstream-liberal-publication essay on the twentysomething music fans who want to talk to you about Of Montreal's album over Ciara's -- who'll privilege the former over the latter for reasons they can't even articulate.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:31 (sixteen years ago) link
I believe the New Yorker would consider that killing the goose, better to sing "Everybody's beautiful" and pretend 311 doesn't STILL sell more than the Flaming Lips.
― da croupier, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:33 (sixteen years ago) link
goddamn it I'm drunk and I'm going to listen to the Style Council.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:35 (sixteen years ago) link
-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, October 15, 2007 11:31 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
would you seriously want to read that article??
― s1ocki, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:45 (sixteen years ago) link
hell yeah! The Great Big World Outside ILM doesn't understand the problem. (And before anyone jumps in to say, "Well, Of Montreal's album is better than Ciara's," understand that the college-age twentysomething to whom SFJ is indirectly addressing his essay won't even consider buying the Ciara album; at most they'll buy a song.)
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:50 (sixteen years ago) link
the problem that some college students prefer indie rock to r&b?
― s1ocki, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:55 (sixteen years ago) link
YES
― J0hn D., Monday, 15 October 2007 23:59 (sixteen years ago) link
THE UNACCEPTABLE FACE OF YOUTH
― J0hn D., Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:00 (sixteen years ago) link
but the vast majority of college students are like jocks and normal people and shit and don't give a crap about indie rock just like the majority of high school students and, um, people in general
― M@tt He1ges0n, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:00 (sixteen years ago) link
http://www.mymusic.com/DI5/graphics/elvis_costello.jpg
"Hi, I'm Elvis Costello, here to talk to you a problem facing the young intellectuals of today. Would you be surprised to know that I am a fan of Lil Wayne? That my favorite album of 2006 was B'Day? Rap and R&B are rich genres that continue to provide us with classic music that reward just as much as indie rock, maybe even more. Increasingly, white music fans do not seem willing to give modern black artists the respect they deserve. Join me, and the good people at Rhapsody, in our fight against this ignorance."
― da croupier, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:01 (sixteen years ago) link
plus nerdy dudes need to get laid...the trim status at a lot of these indie shows is off the hook these days
― M@tt He1ges0n, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:02 (sixteen years ago) link
all we need is EC in a brownshirt acting out "Oliver's Army" in a college-radio setting.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:03 (sixteen years ago) link
The tastes of nerdy white college guys are of vast importance to nerdy white music writers.
― bnw, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:12 (sixteen years ago) link
"Hi, I'm Elvis Costello,etc."
Are those real quotes or jokes quotes?
― kingkongvsgodzilla, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:14 (sixteen years ago) link
see for yourself
www.blacktiewhitenoise.com/costello
― da croupier, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:16 (sixteen years ago) link
ibowiebyrnecostellodarnielletweedy-wnbtpressconference.jpg
― da croupier, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:21 (sixteen years ago) link
woops, fucked up the link
ihttp://blacktiewhitenoise.com/bowiebyrnecostellodarnielletweedy-btwnpressconference.jpg
― da croupier, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:22 (sixteen years ago) link
fuck, just type it in.
This is either really funny and over my head or you're getting the url wrong.
― kingkongvsgodzilla, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:29 (sixteen years ago) link
...I fudged, splitting the difference between singing, chanting, and rapping, each time with diminishing returns. (I can hardly stand to listen to these tracks now.)
i couldn't hardly stand to listen to those tracks then!
lol, yeah, ui was a "funk" band. sure.
― hstencil, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:31 (sixteen years ago) link
-- kingkongvsgodzilla, Tuesday, October 16, 2007 12:29 AM (
^^^^^
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:12 (sixteen years ago) link
A Paler Shade of White---Sasha Frere-Jones Podcast and New Yorker article Criticizing Indie Rock for Failing to Incorporate African-American Influences SFJ discussion moved over here
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 03:23 (sixteen years ago) link
college rock in the 80s was plenty white too
-- da croupier, Tuesday, October 16, 2007 12:19 AM (11 hours ago) Bookmark Link
-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, October 16, 2007 12:20 AM (11 hours ago) Bookmark Link
yeah coz hip-hop and house really found it hard breaking here, in comparison with the US.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 10:38 (sixteen years ago) link
vvvvv
-- BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, October 15, 2007 9:12 PM (Yesterday)
― am0n, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 14:38 (sixteen years ago) link
“You can’t land a plane in Rome saying, ‘Whassup?’ to the control tower. You can’t be a doctor telling your nurse, ‘Dat tumor be nasty.’ ” http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/16/opinion/16herbert.html?th&emc=th
― kamerad, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 15:43 (sixteen years ago) link
So I went out and picked up a copy of B'Day based on Elvis Costello's recommendation.
― kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 17 October 2007 01:18 (sixteen years ago) link
omg @ "dat tumor be nasty"
jesus christ
― Curt1s Stephens, Wednesday, 17 October 2007 18:39 (sixteen years ago) link
You know, if someone went through 10 years of medical school and had the proper training to remove my tumor, I could really give a fuck how they said it.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 17 October 2007 18:56 (sixteen years ago) link
Doctor?
http://www.jahozafat.com/0095461785/WAVS/Movies/Idiocracy/onyourchart.wav
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 17 October 2007 19:03 (sixteen years ago) link
http://media.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2007/oct/saggin/pants_billboard540.jpg
― sanskrit, Friday, 26 October 2007 20:26 (sixteen years ago) link
the social acceptability of sagging vs. the social acceptability of homophobia
― deej, Friday, 26 October 2007 20:28 (sixteen years ago) link
myspace.com/pullyourpantsupman
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 26 October 2007 20:52 (sixteen years ago) link
Ay man, all you adults out there, all you supposed "grown people" Will you please stop lying to your people? Could we please have a moment of fucking honesty? You know, honesty, the shit that you ask your people to be with you, when you ask them are they having sex, or doing drugs? Could we please stop fucking lying? (that's life) Like you preachers out there, who spread the myth that young boys who slack they pants pick that shit up from prison to let niggas know they homosexual. You and your faggot twisted mind know that ain't true, you sick fuck, for even saying that shit. (that's life) We wear our fucking pants big because our mothers were too poor to buy our size, so they had to buy two or three sizes up. Call it what it is, nigga, poverty. It's fuckin poverty. You know, poverty, the opposite of the big fuckin cars and planes you drive, motherfucka.
― deej, Friday, 26 October 2007 20:53 (sixteen years ago) link
gee, the NPR feature somehow missed this angle
― Dr Morbius, Friday, 26 October 2007 20:54 (sixteen years ago) link
killer mike not invited on NPR feature shockah
― forksclovetofu, Friday, 26 October 2007 21:10 (sixteen years ago) link
God damn Bill Cosby and his faggot twisted mind
― J0hn D., Friday, 26 October 2007 21:35 (sixteen years ago) link
Like you preachers out there not talking to cosby but it related to the debate so
― deej, Friday, 26 October 2007 21:53 (sixteen years ago) link
not endorsing it pt. by pt. either
no I know, I love that track and a lot of what km sez on it, I'm just sorta obligated by persona to squawk y'know
― J0hn D., Friday, 26 October 2007 22:10 (sixteen years ago) link
john at the risk of getting ultra-flamed by you I don't think it's your place to school a black artist on how to represent himself - hate if you gotta hate, whatever, but when a white writer starts telling a black artist what his community responsibilities are...shit man I can't see you putting up with that from somebody else!
― and what, Friday, 26 October 2007 22:24 (sixteen years ago) link
some of this stuff transcends/supercedes specific ethnic communities doesn't it...? I mean on some level this is stuff that applies to and affects all Americans, not just black (or white) people.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 26 October 2007 22:28 (sixteen years ago) link
(I mean the pants thing is stupid and who cares really - but the endless homophobia/glorification of consumerism/violence/etc those are not ethnicity-specific issues that affect and involve just black people)
― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 26 October 2007 22:30 (sixteen years ago) link
i though baggy pants as a style signifier originated as a way to easily hide guns?
― max, Friday, 26 October 2007 22:33 (sixteen years ago) link
i thought it was meant to signify that the wearer enjoyed phil collins and showed up late to appointments
― and what, Friday, 26 October 2007 22:35 (sixteen years ago) link
"for eazy access baby"
― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 26 October 2007 22:43 (sixteen years ago) link
you been holdin' that one in for over 24 hours huh eth
― J0hn D., Friday, 26 October 2007 22:49 (sixteen years ago) link
"No no, see, when someone says 'who is it', you're supposed to say who it is!"
(knock knock)
"Who is it?"
'WHO IT IS!'
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 17:03 (sixteen years ago) link
-- and what, Friday, 26 October 2007 22:24 (1 month ago) Link
You can't really talk about this as though it were just "black artists" and "how they represent themselves." The industry has a good deal of say in how major rappers come across, what they rap about, how they act in videos, etc. So although I don't dismiss mainstream rap on objection to the lyrics, an honest discussion of this has to reflect the larger forces at play, and saying a white writer has no right to criticize the lyrics of a "black artist," is avoiding that difficult issue.
― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 20:41 (sixteen years ago) link
ethan at the risk of getting ultra-flamed by you I don't think it's your place to school a black artist on how to represent himself - hate if you gotta hate, whatever, but when a white writer starts telling a black artist what his community responsibilities are...shit man I can't see you putting up with that from somebody else!
-- J0hn D., Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:16 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark Link
― and what, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 20:42 (sixteen years ago) link
What's The Deal With Saul Williams?
― and what, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 20:43 (sixteen years ago) link
Sorry, didn't see the first post. Point stands though.
I mean a lot of people in non-mainstream hip-hop, including black artists, blame the music industry for the way black people are portrayed in mainstream hip-hop, feeding to a mostly white audience a hyper-sexual, hyper-violent hyper-capitalist fantasy projected onto black people.
― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 20:43 (sixteen years ago) link
u really think i would use a word like 'ultra-flamed'
i dont give a fuck john hates on or not i think every head has got the right to tell artists what they wanna see them doing but i got the right to call it racist/corny/played/clueless/whatever
― and what, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 20:44 (sixteen years ago) link
And there is probably a big difference between Saul Williams, who I'd imagine has a great deal of say in how he represents himself, and mainstream hip-hop. I don't mean to say that mainstream rappers are all patsies either. A Jay-Z or a 50-Cent is obviously making a very clear choice, but that choice is based largely on what will make money, and they don't seem to particularly care if that feeds a negative stereotype. It's the system, man!
No, I don't really think you'd say that - sorry dude. Wasn't really trying to call you out as much as just call the whole debate out.
― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 20:46 (sixteen years ago) link
oh fuck it http://m.assetbar.com/achewood/autaux?b=M%5ea11f09b8576e606bcb5038dfdb92fb821&u=http%3A%2F%2Fachewood.com%2Fcomic.php%3Fdate%3D12242007
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 20:49 (sixteen years ago) link
"mad-rutty" vs. "ultra-flamed"
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 20:50 (sixteen years ago) link
And there is probably a big difference between Saul Williams, who I'd imagine has a great deal of say in how he represents himself
My Dearest Friends and Fans,
It is my greatest honor to present to you The Inevitable Rise and Liberation of NiggyTardust!, my new album produced by Trent Reznor and mixed by Alan Moulder. The wall of sound that we've created is tagged with such graffiti that a passerby would seek out doors and ways to ENTER. Once inside a world defined by dreams come true they'd find aligned with the simplest act of sharing what we treasure. Most people aren't aware of the world of art and commerce where exploitation strips each artist down to nigger. Each label, like apartheid, multiplies us by our divide and whips us 'til we conform to lesser figures. What falls between the cracks is a pile of records stacked to the heights of talents hidden from the sun. Yet the energy they put into popularizing smut makes a star of a shiny polished gun. The ballot or the bullet for Mohawk or the mullet is a choice between new times and dying days. And the only way to choose is to jump ship from old truths and trust dolphins as we swim through changing ways. The ways of middlemen proves to be just a passing trend. We need no priests to talk to God. No phone to call her. And when you click the link below, i think it fair that you should know that your purchase will make middlemen much poorer...
NiggyTardust!
love,
Saul
― and what, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 20:52 (sixteen years ago) link
During the first Lollapalooza tour, Jane's Addiction brings out Ice-T to perform a rendition of Sly & the Family Stone's "Don't Call Me Nigger, Whitey (Don't Call Me Whitey, Nigger)". Perry Farrell sings the white part, Ice-T sings the Black part. Black quartet Living Colour comes onstage afterward and bandleader Vernon Reid announces "I'll never be anyone's nigger for entertainment..."
― and what, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 20:53 (sixteen years ago) link
I really hate being called whitey
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 20:55 (sixteen years ago) link
I really hate Achewood
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 21:34 (sixteen years ago) link
I love that story about Vernon Reid.
― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 21:35 (sixteen years ago) link
Living Colour was my first show.
― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 21:36 (sixteen years ago) link
i was never into living colour but that story is whats up
― and what, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 21:41 (sixteen years ago) link
ha same. Trent woulda been at that Lolla show, so it all comes full circle.
― bnw, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 22:11 (sixteen years ago) link
Well then.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 31 January 2008 16:32 (sixteen years ago) link
omg the last sentence
― HI DERE, Thursday, 31 January 2008 16:46 (sixteen years ago) link
laz112 said: I actually have this old album with Cosby and Quincy Jones. Cosby been rapping since before rap started yo. There is this one track called "Hicky Burr" he tore that shit down yo. I think it was released in 1974 or something.
― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 31 January 2008 16:49 (sixteen years ago) link
Got a Cosby sweater Rep it cuz it's better Follow to the letter. Yo.
― novaheat, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:14 (sixteen years ago) link
Fingers crossed for a Jello reference
― remy bean, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:18 (sixteen years ago) link
"They think they're hip. They can't read. They can't write. They're laughing and giggling, and they're going nowhere."
with the laughing and the giggling and the jibber-jabber night-train going to nowhere
― remy bean, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:19 (sixteen years ago) link
He's against laughter now?
― dad a, Thursday, 31 January 2008 20:21 (sixteen years ago) link
The beef is on (maybe).
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 27 February 2008 16:27 (sixteen years ago) link
okay at this point everyone involved just needs to stop
― HI DERE, Wednesday, 27 February 2008 16:44 (sixteen years ago) link
Dyson is that dude, but I don't look forward to his mic moment.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 27 February 2008 16:45 (sixteen years ago) link
i saw michael eric dyson speak at my school a couple weeks ago, hes a supremely intelligent and dynamic guy and because i have a lot of respect for him i am just going to pretend that this doesnt exist
― max, Wednesday, 27 February 2008 16:49 (sixteen years ago) link
i took a class from that guy! the day michael jordan retired (the first time) prof dyson wore a bulls jersey under his tweed jacket
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 27 February 2008 16:52 (sixteen years ago) link
Can we put together a rap album titled SHUT THE FUCK UP, BOTH OF YOU?
― HI DERE, Wednesday, 27 February 2008 16:53 (sixteen years ago) link
c'mon dan you don't want to hear cosby doing a bjork cover?
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 27 February 2008 16:54 (sixteen years ago) link
Only if it's "Ancestors" (or whatever the Gremlin-fucking song on Medulla is called).
― HI DERE, Wednesday, 27 February 2008 16:55 (sixteen years ago) link
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UfIBAWAneoo
― mark e, Friday, 25 April 2008 16:09 (fifteen years ago) link
omg flashbacks
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 25 April 2008 19:05 (fifteen years ago) link
ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
― Curt1s Stephens, Friday, 25 April 2008 19:30 (fifteen years ago) link
Oof they've played this a bunch on KPFA recently.
― Sparkle Motion, Saturday, 26 April 2008 06:36 (fifteen years ago) link
^^^ Sooooo 1998.
― Bodrick III, Saturday, 26 April 2008 16:30 (fifteen years ago) link