― robert clerc, Sunday, 9 May 2004 08:33 (twenty years ago) link
Ahh, Marquee Moon. Is there anything it can't do?
― mark grout (mark grout), Sunday, 9 May 2004 08:40 (twenty years ago) link
― doomie x, Sunday, 9 May 2004 08:43 (twenty years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Sunday, 9 May 2004 08:48 (twenty years ago) link
― doomie x, Sunday, 9 May 2004 08:51 (twenty years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Sunday, 9 May 2004 08:52 (twenty years ago) link
― bimble (bimble), Sunday, 9 May 2004 08:56 (twenty years ago) link
― doomie x, Sunday, 9 May 2004 08:57 (twenty years ago) link
― Broheems (diamond), Sunday, 9 May 2004 09:05 (twenty years ago) link
― bimble (bimble), Sunday, 9 May 2004 09:07 (twenty years ago) link
Adventure, I love all of it. Now the title track is there, "The Dream's Dream" isn't quite such a 'wanders off and gets lost' ending to the album.
― mark grout (mark grout), Sunday, 9 May 2004 09:10 (twenty years ago) link
― doomie x, Sunday, 9 May 2004 09:16 (twenty years ago) link
― the 'surface' 'noise' (electricsound), Sunday, 9 May 2004 09:17 (twenty years ago) link
― doomie x, Sunday, 9 May 2004 09:18 (twenty years ago) link
In other words, 'rockism' is what I do every time I get on ILX!
hahah, just kidding! sort of. But yeah, it's way lame. Bimble, your opinion, your reaction to music -the way it impacts your life - is as valid as any of these cockfarming rock critics who post on these boards. Believe dat.
― Broheems (diamond), Sunday, 9 May 2004 09:22 (twenty years ago) link
That is very true. Hell critics get free music -- i trust the opinion of someone who has paid over someone who gets things for free!
― doomie x, Sunday, 9 May 2004 09:23 (twenty years ago) link
Track one) RoadrunnerTrack two) Up the Bracket
and so on...
― mark grout (mark grout), Sunday, 9 May 2004 09:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Canada Briggs (Canada Briggs), Sunday, 9 May 2004 10:41 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 9 May 2004 12:43 (twenty years ago) link
― bimble (bimble), Sunday, 9 May 2004 17:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Tim Ellison, Sunday, 9 May 2004 17:12 (twenty years ago) link
― Evanston Wade (EWW), Sunday, 9 May 2004 17:38 (twenty years ago) link
― mentalist (mentalist), Monday, 10 May 2004 05:21 (twenty years ago) link
― the 'surface' 'noise' (electricsound), Monday, 10 May 2004 05:37 (twenty years ago) link
― Canada Briggs (Canada Briggs), Monday, 10 May 2004 06:18 (twenty years ago) link
scott, what is it you prefer about the ROIR tape? I'm curious because I have it and I find it nearly unlistenable. What am I missing?
― webcrack (music=crack), Monday, 10 May 2004 06:27 (twenty years ago) link
― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 10 May 2004 06:37 (twenty years ago) link
― bham, Monday, 10 May 2004 07:49 (twenty years ago) link
Yeah, rockism="It's gotta rock!" and "It might be good, but it still sucks because it doesn't rock!"
Best definition evah???
― Tim Ellison, Monday, 10 May 2004 14:57 (twenty years ago) link
― flowersdie (flowersdie), Monday, 10 May 2004 15:16 (twenty years ago) link
i've had the felt records for years, and up until recently i couldn't be bothered to be to inquisitive about them as people.
― mike bott, Monday, 10 May 2004 17:18 (twenty years ago) link
also the idea that authenticity is the gold standard of everything good and meaningful, that something new will almost always be inferior to something time-tested and "classic," that there are two categories, rock and "everything else," and nothing in the second category so much as exists in the rockist consciousness unless it (a) serves as a constant antagonist to all that is good and meaningful in music (b) brushes up against rock in some way that validates it.
this is all pretty reductive but it's a good place to start.
― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 10 May 2004 17:26 (twenty years ago) link
― Morley Timmons (Donna Brown), Monday, 10 May 2004 21:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Scott CE (Scott CE), Monday, 10 May 2004 21:25 (twenty years ago) link
― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 10 May 2004 21:28 (twenty years ago) link
― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 10 May 2004 21:29 (twenty years ago) link
― Scott CE (Scott CE), Monday, 10 May 2004 21:32 (twenty years ago) link
― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 10 May 2004 21:32 (twenty years ago) link
Oh gosh, unlistenable, really? I always thought that tape sounded fine. I really fell in love with those versions when I first heard them. I had the Blow-Up tape and then the cd, but i think i sold the cd so i can't listen to it right now, but i just remember it being so tense and powerful. It kinda made me wish that i had a cd that was nothing but old live versions of those two songs. The studio versions never hit me half as hard.
― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 10 May 2004 21:33 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 10 May 2004 21:36 (twenty years ago) link
― lovebug starski, Monday, 10 May 2004 21:41 (twenty years ago) link
― Jean-Luc (Jean-Luc), Monday, 10 May 2004 21:44 (twenty years ago) link
― David Nolan (David N.), Monday, 10 May 2004 23:56 (twenty years ago) link
― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 00:01 (nineteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 00:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 08:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dave Amos, Tuesday, 11 May 2004 12:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― MarkH (MarkH), Sunday, 7 November 2004 18:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ian John50n (orion), Sunday, 7 November 2004 18:48 (nineteen years ago) link
No, it isn't.
― Palomino (Palomino), Sunday, 7 November 2004 18:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― MarkH (MarkH), Sunday, 7 November 2004 20:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ian John50n (orion), Monday, 8 November 2004 00:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― MC Transmaniacon (natepatrin), Monday, 8 November 2004 00:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― MC Transmaniacon (natepatrin), Monday, 8 November 2004 00:36 (nineteen years ago) link
Search function is being spazzy so I couldn't find the Television C/D thread. This one will have to suffice.
Anyway, I dunno if it's common knowledge that the Television show in Central Park on Saturday was announced as Richard Lloyd's last. RL is severing his ties with the band to pursue more solo stuff.
Thing is, Lloyd went into intensive care with pneumonia in both lungs on June 1st and is still hospitalized & on breathing apparatus, though there has apparently been significant improvement since his admittance.
I hope he gets to go home soon. Very worrying.
― Jon Lewis, Monday, 11 June 2007 16:22 (sixteen years ago) link
the last couple months have been exceedingly odd for Mr. Lloyd. Has he gone off the deep end? here's his strange announcement re: his split with Television & his new apparently amazing (that's what he says anyway) record
Dear Marquee Moon mailing list members:
First of all, thank you for your continued support of our band and its members. Although I read the list from time to time, and I notice it is a worship altar for the works of Tom Verlaine, I have never minded, because for 34 years within Television, I practiced a kind of magical invisibility -- you could look at me on stage and think that what I was doing was being done by Tom. Of course, I took my own solos etc., but nonetheless I practiced a real yogic invisibility so that the band would have one leader and one central visionary.
A man cannot ride two horses. I am a great believer in my newest record which is about to come out, and I think it is as important a record as anything ever released -- not more important, but equal to absolutely anything you can name in rock-and-roll history. It deserves my full attention and support.
I'm going to ask the mailing list members a question. It's a rhetorical question, and thereafter I will answer it myself: have any of you ever made a New Year's resolution? Have any of you that have made a New Year's resolution kept your promise to yourself for the entire year? I dare say that not many of you can answer yes to this. Well, I made a vow in 1973 to subsume my will and my own personal charisma behind Tom, in order that Television have one face and one leader showing to the public. At times this vow was very difficult on me. I suffered public embarrassment and had to hide my own gregariousness and generosity behind a band identity that was nick-named "the ice kings of rock."
Now that I have announced my severance from any involvement in the band Television, the other three are free to get a fourth member should they like, and continue under the name. That was our original agreement and I stand by. I am a man of my word. I gave my word to myself and I kept my vow or 35 years. Now I am released from that vow and can reveal my own talents and force. I hope you will join me on an exciting adventure, which is more social phenomenon than musical, the music just being a part of my plans to conquer the earth and make the earthlings be nice to one another.
Please refrain from mentioning the name of my forthcoming record. Please do not mention the phrase. This will assist me in my well thought about promotional campaign. There will be no advance copies sent to journalists. There will be small listening parties and the record will be being played at my shows. But if you do not get a copy directly from me, you don't get one.
Sincerely yours, Richard
hmmm?
― tylerw, Monday, 11 June 2007 17:44 (sixteen years ago) link
It doesn't bother me in the slightest about starting a new thread, or posting on this one, but here's the one you're looking for:
television: classic or dud? search and destroy
― Keith, Monday, 11 June 2007 17:47 (sixteen years ago) link
sad..
― Zeno, Monday, 11 June 2007 17:50 (sixteen years ago) link
: (
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 11 June 2007 17:51 (sixteen years ago) link
i dunno, i find his whole reason for quitting Television bizarre. Is there a single review of the band out there that doesn't mention Lloyd? You know, "... the scintillating guitar interplay between Verlaine and Lloyd ..."? That sorta thing? Anybody even casually familiar with the band knows that it wasn't just the Tom Verlaine Band. It also just seems weird to be quitting a band that plays a handful of times a year, if that. Personally, it bums me out because I never got a chance to see the band in any incarnation, and they're definitely one of my faves. Wonder what'll happen to all that new material they've been playing the last few years? Some of it was pretty solid.
― tylerw, Monday, 11 June 2007 18:04 (sixteen years ago) link
isn't verlaine a massive a-hole?
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 11 June 2007 18:06 (sixteen years ago) link
I would class him as very very prickly and deeply contrarian. Which may = asshole on certain occasions.
― Jon Lewis, Monday, 11 June 2007 18:10 (sixteen years ago) link
This is neither here nor there; but in the context of Television, I for one always liked Lloyd's soloing more than Verlaine's. (And felt vindicated after hearing him hold his own with Robert Quine on those early '90s Matthew Sweet records.)
But yeah, those remarks up there: wtf?
― Myonga Vön Bontee, Monday, 11 June 2007 19:24 (sixteen years ago) link
I've read a few reports on Lloyd's recent east coast tour -- sounds like he's doing some sort of weird performance art thing, with chanting in aramaic, berating audience members and multiple Jimi Hendrix covers. While I love the guy in Television, I've never been able to get into his solo stuff ... But anyway, this all seems a bit odd. I interviewed the guy a few years back (when those Rhino reissues came out) and he seemed like a pretty regular guy and was (rightfully) proud of his work in Television. But now his Web site is filled with weird pseudo-mystical rants and writings -- it's hard to tell whether it's all an elaborate pu-on or utterly sincere.
― tylerw, Monday, 11 June 2007 19:35 (sixteen years ago) link
Another of his announcements, from last month:
After the possible Summer stage show in New York City on June 16, which is to be announced by the city of New York on May 15, Richard Lloyd will, after 34 years, be amicably severing all ties with the band Television, in order that he may concentrate his magnetic force and supernatural energies upon his own career in support of his forthcoming record, due out in the fall. This new record directly competes with Marquee Moon, Axis: Bold as Love, The Doors, Patti Smith's Horses, Bob Marley's Natty Dread, Neil Young's Harvest, or any other record you can name, as one of the greatest records ever made in the history of rock 'n roll. That being so, Richard needs to concentrate all of his energies to support it and its subsidiary philosophies.
― Jon Lewis, Monday, 11 June 2007 19:38 (sixteen years ago) link
so this show if it happens is gonna be a fiasco?
― gabbneb, Monday, 11 June 2007 19:40 (sixteen years ago) link
and then there's this interview: http://www.rocktownhall.com/blogs/index.php?p=566&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#more5 he's gotta be at least sort of kidding. right?
― tylerw, Monday, 11 June 2007 19:43 (sixteen years ago) link
Please refrain from mentioning the name of my forthcoming record. Please do not mention the phrase. This will assist me in my well thought about promotional campaign.
^^^ i like this very much
― gff, Monday, 11 June 2007 19:48 (sixteen years ago) link
Actually, not quite. If it happens at all I imagine they'll draft in Jimmy Rip to play 2nd guitar. He's been solo-act Tom Verlaine's 2nd guitarist live and on most records for over 20 years, and he knows most of the TV songs from live sets. He's a great foil for Tom, but not at all in the same style as Lloyd. Rip is more of an atmospheric scene-painter for Verlaine's foreground action. They have great chemistry on stage together.
But there will be serious umbrage if a Television concert happens with Rip instead of LLoyd, that's for sure. Don't see how else it can go through, though, and I don't imagine it's easy to reschedule a free Central Park gig.
― Jon Lewis, Monday, 11 June 2007 19:49 (sixteen years ago) link
verlaine should hire j. mascis.
― hstencil, Monday, 11 June 2007 19:52 (sixteen years ago) link
that interview is crazee
― Mr. Que, Monday, 11 June 2007 19:54 (sixteen years ago) link
"The original LP had 09:58, i believe (off the top of my head)...."
Wow Mark, you remember the duration of individual tracks on favourite LP's? I bow down in humble admiration at the feet of true music-obsessive greatness!
― Stewart Osborne, Tuesday, 12 June 2007 10:00 (sixteen years ago) link
Ha, just cause I looked longingly at that "Marquee Moon" 12" single for so long, back in the day. It was one of the first 12" singles made, and certainly the first "rock" one that justified its existance for the length of the track!
― Mark G, Tuesday, 12 June 2007 10:10 (sixteen years ago) link
http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/217715.jpg
Look! Here's one!
― Mark G, Tuesday, 12 June 2007 10:12 (sixteen years ago) link
Lloyd leaving is a bummer…I dunno if I'd wanna see Television it's all skronky Verlainisms and no Lloyd hot licks: the contrast on MM is Lloyd solo at 2:58; Verlainisms at 4:51…Lloyd does ALL the heavy lifting…
― Veronica Moser, Tuesday, 12 June 2007 12:20 (sixteen years ago) link
Ack. I was planning on going to the show this Saturday. Lloyd, despite his apparent delusions of grandeur, is my favorite part of that band. Someone please tell me he'll be there.
― kwhitehead, Tuesday, 12 June 2007 15:58 (sixteen years ago) link
I'm going no matter what.
How much ahead of time do you usually have to show up for Summerstage shows in order to get a decent patch of ground?
― Jon Lewis, Tuesday, 12 June 2007 16:04 (sixteen years ago) link
Can't help you, haven't ever been to one. Maybe some of these enlightened ILM folks can be more helpful.
― kwhitehead, Wednesday, 13 June 2007 03:15 (sixteen years ago) link
was in a shop where they were playing it last week. Have been unable to remove it from my turntable since. I just love guitars with that clean sound that cross each other rhythmically.
― Dr X O'Skeleton, Wednesday, 3 February 2010 12:22 (fourteen years ago) link
I played it last week (the new remaster with the 'alt mixes' added)
I have revised my opinion of "Torn Curtain", it's fine but the fade out is about 2 mins too long (or so it seems)...
― Mark G, Wednesday, 3 February 2010 12:26 (fourteen years ago) link
The Radiant Monkey.
oops.
― Mark G, Wednesday, 3 February 2010 12:31 (fourteen years ago) link
A 12-year old looking Tom Verlaine and his black beret playing Marquee Moon in 1985: not the best version ever, but still good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYFn8NUicY4
― Marco Damiani, Wednesday, 3 February 2010 14:38 (fourteen years ago) link
still not tired of this song
― tylerw, Wednesday, 3 February 2010 19:43 (fourteen years ago) link
ditto
those arpeggiated dueling guitars in the bridge are the meaning of life imo
― Salvador Dali Parton (Turangalila), Wednesday, 3 February 2010 20:03 (fourteen years ago) link
that live version is pretty sick
― ♖♕♖ (am0n), Wednesday, 3 February 2010 20:13 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah the 80s versions of marquee are off the hook
― tylerw, Wednesday, 3 February 2010 20:15 (fourteen years ago) link
i've always loved "torn curtain". it's so ott, like a melodramatic showtune or something. the way the guitar is just practically screaming at the end
― anita bonghit (rionat), Wednesday, 3 February 2010 20:21 (fourteen years ago) link
tempting (un poco)
― nerve_pylon, Friday, 22 July 2011 16:02 (twelve years ago) link
hee hee! would buy if it was the spanish language version. sobre de la marquesina lunaaaa ...
― tylerw, Friday, 22 July 2011 16:06 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS27RAXhBWQ
― (Pleasant Plains), Friday, 22 July 2011 16:20 (twelve years ago) link
misspelled bryan uno's name there.
― tylerw, Friday, 22 July 2011 16:23 (twelve years ago) link
wow that's a lot more velvetsy
― goole, Friday, 22 July 2011 16:29 (twelve years ago) link
WEIRD. The timing of the doodle-oodle-oodle-oo guitar licks is completely different.Also, I didn't know the Eno mixes were kicking around.Also, this sounds lousy in comparison! Very interesting.Also, 7 years late, but the connection between Felt and Television is spelled out on Felt's song "Mobile Shack" off "Me and a Monkey on the Moon":
Working in a shop is a dead end jobI left after eight weeks, it was just as well'Cause coming up behind me like a high speed trainWas the new york city new wave, Verlaine/Hell
I was born in the back of a mobile shackAnd my mother said to me son: "Play guitar"
― Disneyland Purgatory (Ówen P.), Friday, 22 July 2011 16:44 (twelve years ago) link
the demos were done w/ richard hell, and he just was not the right bass player for television. it's amazing how much they improved once fred smith was in the band. i like the hell-era recordings, but they're a different kinda thing. always funny to me that the bnd claimed that doodle oodle oo riff was inspired by the horn lick on james brown's "i feel good." also that they thought they could get away w/ splitting up "little johnny jewel" on a seven inch because james brown did that all the time. james brown -- television's secret influence!
― tylerw, Friday, 22 July 2011 16:53 (twelve years ago) link
sort of crazy that in a world with dozens of shitty sounding stooges recordings released officially they've never put the eno demos out.
― tylerw, Friday, 22 July 2011 16:54 (twelve years ago) link
now that's the straight up legit truth. also, at the end of the day, richard hell = meh.
― nerve_pylon, Friday, 22 July 2011 16:57 (twelve years ago) link
whosoever wants the eno demos: http://ow.ly/5L6xd (that's the classic double exposure bootleg, it's got the eno demos + other odds n ends)
― tylerw, Friday, 22 July 2011 17:05 (twelve years ago) link
whoah. thanks, tyler!
― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 22 July 2011 17:17 (twelve years ago) link
no prob (just grabbed the link from another blog). i remember wanting that bootleg SO BAD back in the days before the internet made it all available. i saw it once in NYC but could not afford it and felt like dying. memories.
― tylerw, Friday, 22 July 2011 17:21 (twelve years ago) link
the drumming is a lot more james brown/can-esque on that version too.
― hardcore oatmeal (Jordan), Friday, 22 July 2011 17:24 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.crawdaddy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/3313marqueemoon.jpgjust got this in the mail -- haven't really gotten too far, but the author seems to know what he's talking about.
― tylerw, Friday, 22 July 2011 17:44 (twelve years ago) link
You can imagine how *I* felt on finding a Double Exposure album for not stupid money....
― Mark G, Friday, 22 July 2011 23:08 (twelve years ago) link
i think this is the first time i've ever actually played this album. right now. i went outside for a cigarette during "marquee moon" though. it's still going. i never had a copy. someone brought in the 4 men with beards reissue. reissue is kinda noisy.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 7 March 2012 17:23 (twelve years ago) link
still like the roir tape live versions better. like way better. i mean, i've probably heard all these songs at some point in my life. i only really like three songs by them. (friction, mm, ljj)
― scott seward, Wednesday, 7 March 2012 17:24 (twelve years ago) link
Scott, try to hear the Live At The Old Waldorf LP which Rhino Handmade put out, it's shit-hot like the ROIR but good radio broadcast sound.
― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 7 March 2012 19:44 (twelve years ago) link
I never liked Television much until I heard the Brian Eno demo bootleg versions of a few of the songs from Marquee Moon. Richard Hell on bass, much more raw energy, only reaffirms for me the fact that the album sounds kind of flat.
― simulation and similac (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 7 March 2012 19:57 (twelve years ago) link
Skot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjEFuUNc3Uc&feature=related
Scott, do you not like Foxhole?
― Feebs K-Tel (NickB), Wednesday, 7 March 2012 19:59 (twelve years ago) link
xp this is known as the Enoic Challops iirc
― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:00 (twelve years ago) link
Someone Find that TOTP appearance!
― Mark G, Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:12 (twelve years ago) link
enoic challops indeed. those eno demos are good but imo nowhere near the grandeur of marquee moon. gonna be posting a collection of hell-era television recordings on my blog soon. what should i call it? The Hell Year? Hellevision? Season In Hell?
― tylerw, Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:15 (twelve years ago) link
I guess it comes down to Whichever version you heard first.
― Mark G, Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:17 (twelve years ago) link
here's that "foxhole" from the old grey whistle testhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sCQ0hEYhZE
― tylerw, Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:20 (twelve years ago) link
It's nice that exists, sure.
But, apparently they did "Prove It" on totp but the tapes are wiped.
And I know nobody that remembers it!
― Mark G, Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:23 (twelve years ago) link
oh ha, never knew they were on top of the pops. a shame, i think that foxhole is the only pro footage of the band in the 70s....
― tylerw, Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:24 (twelve years ago) link
that OGWT clip is great. forgotten how shaky the vocals were though (apart from the fred and richard bit at the end!)
― Feebs K-Tel (NickB), Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:30 (twelve years ago) link
Tom V's live vocals have always sucked, p much. I mean, I like them, but I really can't defend them...
― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:34 (twelve years ago) link
i believe that the waldorf thing is good. they were just way better live. still think they really only had 3 good to great songs though. the whole 2nd side of marquee moon doesn't do much for me. but the whole first side is cool. i was never a richard hell fan either. except for quine, obviously. i dunno, i like all the other big cbgb bands way more. i'm sure they were a revelation to new wavers or whatever back then. but to me at this late date...yeah, they were fine. i mean, they could never do to me what the groundhogs or thin lizzy do to me. as far as guitar bands go. and groundhogs sound way more punk rock and new wave (circa 1972) to me as well. (i always liked the song "marquee moon" going back years. everyone likes it. great riff. catchy. fun to listen to.)
― scott seward, Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:35 (twelve years ago) link
I really should have got that Waldorf thing when it came out...
― Mark G, Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:37 (twelve years ago) link
and rilly i'm not trying to start a television fight. it just occurred to me putting that on today that i had never owned a copy! or been in a room when someone played the whole thing.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:37 (twelve years ago) link
it's available from iTunes and other MP3 services, just not physically anymore. It's the second best Television album.
― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:39 (twelve years ago) link
I think it's on Spotify
― Mark G, Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:40 (twelve years ago) link
It's not challops! I found the song Friction, e.g., really really boring until I heard that version.
― simulation and similac (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:55 (twelve years ago) link
I do like the coinage though
― simulation and similac (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:56 (twelve years ago) link
careful, enoic challops are a slippery slope to coldplay
― tylerw, Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:58 (twelve years ago) link
this my favourite, like, everything record
― flopson, Thursday, 8 March 2012 00:11 (twelve years ago) link
yeah i know people have strong feelings about it. that's why i wanted to point out that i wasn't, like, trolling or whatever. BUT i can still be critical here. i hope.
― scott seward, Thursday, 8 March 2012 00:14 (twelve years ago) link
i haven't heard much television live but the few videos i saw were kind of disappointing, they have to stand so still and concentrate so hard to play those guitar parts, i always imagined them doing, like, spazzy angular dances or something
― flopson, Thursday, 8 March 2012 00:22 (twelve years ago) link
The redoubtable Doom and Gloom from the Tomb site has put up some really great Television boots. The Portland show from the Earth Tavern blows the Waldorf Show (from the night before?) out of the water. Much rawer and more rocking versions of tunes from Adventure. And for an audience of about 50 from what I can tell!
― broom air, Thursday, 8 March 2012 00:31 (twelve years ago) link
the earth tavern show rules too but i think they are equal just different vibes on each night IMO
plus....the sound quality on the waldorf show goes a long way, damn near studio quality, portland is on the rough side (which actually fits the performance)
― the wild eyed boy from soundcloud (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 8 March 2012 00:32 (twelve years ago) link
p much with you, scott. television to me are a band of a few great songs, a couple great live recordings. but when they're on, they're fucking ON.
― meticulously showcased in a stunning fart presentation (contenderizer), Thursday, 8 March 2012 00:33 (twelve years ago) link
I think it's on Spotify― Mark G, Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:40 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Mark G, Wednesday, 7 March 2012 20:40 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I think, correctly.
mmmmm! It's a bit good, innit?
― Mark G, Thursday, 8 March 2012 09:19 (twelve years ago) link
still like the roir tape live versions better. like way better.
back in the days when cassetes were still a going concern an ilxor promised to tape me that, never got round to it.
But i should...
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 8 March 2012 09:35 (twelve years ago) link
That's on Spotify as well.
― Mark G, Thursday, 8 March 2012 09:46 (twelve years ago) link
as is obvious from my blog, this band is top 10 for me, if pressed, i might even say marquee moon is my fave rock n roll album ever.
― tylerw, Thursday, 8 March 2012 16:05 (twelve years ago) link
i haven't heard much television live but the few videos i saw were kind of disappointing, they have to stand so still and concentrate so hard to play those guitar parts, i always imagined them doing, like, spazzy angular dances or somethinghttp://www.richardhell.com/jumptv1.jpgthink they were a little spazzy, at least w/ hell in the band, judging from this pic.
― tylerw, Thursday, 8 March 2012 18:18 (twelve years ago) link
haha that's awesome
― flopson, Thursday, 8 March 2012 18:29 (twelve years ago) link
if anyone's interested, i just posted that hellevision comp mentioned above: http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/18962115402/television-a-season-in-hell-soooo-heres-asome of it's been around the block a bit, but there are some rare-ish things, too.
― tylerw, Thursday, 8 March 2012 21:35 (twelve years ago) link
I am missing something again.
I bought it mid 80s
Revisited since, plenty of times.
Still not great.
― Jessie Fer Ark (Mobbed Up Ping Pong Psychos), Thursday, 8 March 2012 23:36 (twelve years ago) link
say why though.
― scott seward, Thursday, 8 March 2012 23:53 (twelve years ago) link
tylerw - excellent comp, thanks, making my way through now. Loving the baselines. Ficca is fkn fine too.
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 10 March 2012 10:46 (twelve years ago) link
Be interesting to hear a full album's worth of Marque Moon versions, maybe...
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 10 March 2012 10:55 (twelve years ago) link
on the occasion of its 40th birthday
https://damienlove.com/writing/friction-the-making-of-televisions-marquee-moon
― mookieproof, Friday, 3 February 2017 19:34 (seven years ago) link
sweet - thx!
― for sale: steve bannon waifu pillow (heavily soiled) (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 3 February 2017 19:41 (seven years ago) link
very nice
― tylerw, Friday, 3 February 2017 19:45 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, this was a wonderful read, thanks! I loved this part:
Tom came up with this idea, based on double-features at the movies: two bands each night. Never more, never less. Each would play two sets. So, on one night, you’d have Talking Heads, then Television, then Talking Heads, then Television.
I have never seen this done, and I think it's a great idea.
― Fake posts from a failing poster (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, 7 February 2017 16:55 (seven years ago) link
When I saw Television's tour nearly 3 years ago, they had some new songs, and I thought there were plans for a new album. Any word on that?
― Fastnbulbous, Tuesday, 7 February 2017 18:03 (seven years ago) link
ha, well, read that Lloyd article linked above -- they've been talking about a new album (and playing various new songs) for well over a decade now.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 7 February 2017 18:05 (seven years ago) link
jimmy ripp has basically said it's done except for the vocals
― his eye is on despair-o (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 7 February 2017 19:56 (seven years ago) link
verlaine is such an odd case -- i wonder if he'll ever write a memoir of any kind.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 7 February 2017 20:26 (seven years ago) link
― tylerw
don't they just do "persia" for 20 minutes at every show?
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Tuesday, 7 February 2017 20:29 (seven years ago) link
yeah that might be the only new thing they do these days. in the early 00s, there were a bunch of things (handily compiled here): http://www.earcandyarchive.com/?p=24
― tylerw, Tuesday, 7 February 2017 20:34 (seven years ago) link
I wish tom v would write a memoir... as i've made clear i am a bit obsessed with him. There's no way he's ever gonna do it though. He never will, because we want him to. He can barely stand to be interviewed, even.
― his eye is on despair-o (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 7 February 2017 21:46 (seven years ago) link
yeah it's unlikely, though I think someone asked him about it (maybe after the Richard Hell book came out?) and he said he was thinking about it.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 7 February 2017 21:50 (seven years ago) link
he likes to think about doing things, does our tom
― his eye is on despair-o (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 7 February 2017 21:53 (seven years ago) link
haha yeah, i just wonder if he saw patti's book getting on the bestseller lists and thought "hey, i could do that!" probably just a matter of some publisher making a big enough offer ... which is probably not going to happen.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 7 February 2017 22:01 (seven years ago) link
Looks like the 2003 expanded remaster of Adventure is OOP, is the MM from the same edition.Shame would hope they'd try to keep both in print.
― Stevolende, Tuesday, 7 February 2017 23:25 (seven years ago) link
yeah the last CD reissues of the debut and Adventure were from 2003 (along with the essential live at the old waldorf disc). maybe the ship has sailed, but there really should be a Television boxed set of some kind.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 7 February 2017 23:27 (seven years ago) link
I actually bought the third album in Oxfam this weekend! £1.99 !
― Mark G, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 00:24 (seven years ago) link
On CD, I should say.
I love that album
― his eye is on despair-o (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 8 February 2017 03:33 (seven years ago) link
I didn't, really. I bought it on LP when it came out, it had that eighties reverb that they'd avoided with the other albums, and the songs didn't connect with me apart from "Call Mr Lee". Also, lots of other records about at the time.
Not played it yet, will let you know.
I know, you can't wait, right?
― Mark G, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 08:16 (seven years ago) link
These are Television fans. They can wait.
― pplains, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 14:04 (seven years ago) link
This is all I could find from a lengthy, now deleted blog post by Steve Kilbey, singer from The Church. He toured with Tom Verlaine and wrote at length about it, not in a particularly flattering way.
i met one of my all time heroestom verlaine (nee miller)he came on tour with us in 1988he was a strange dudepenny pinching hilarious sarcastic weird mannothing like what i expectedhe treated me like a pesky kidand i still vividly remember one day in the dead of wintersomewhere in the north eastwe pulled into this hotel at about 6 amverlaine rings me up 1o minutes after we check inhey kilbey....you wanna go for a uh walkok tom i'll be right therewe walk to the top of this hillwhere theres a kinda resovoir or somethingand then we see a couple of cars of black guyswith some nasty looking deal going downand we start runningtheyre chasing usso we run into these woodsand verlaine is sprinting down this snowy wooded hilllike a prize stallionwhile i on my shorter legs struggled along behindi thinkin how weird this isescaping from these villains with a guy i used to idolize(and fiends, marquee moon IS one of the best records ever)later i meet his mom n dadoutside a gig in phillyand his mom saysyou make sure tom writes to me
― kornrulez6969, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 14:54 (seven years ago) link
haha that's great. for the 40th anniversary of Marquee Moon, I traced the title track's development (via rehearsals/demos/live tapes) -- http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/1438-televisions-punk-epic-marquee-moon-40-years-later/
― tylerw, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 15:23 (seven years ago) link
I dunno, that's reasonably flattering, the guy actually acknowledges support band singers existence. That's not bad going from any headliner.
― Mark G, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 15:30 (seven years ago) link
Wowee...can't wait to dig into that. Looks amazing.
xp
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 8 February 2017 15:32 (seven years ago) link
So, where is that Portland 17 minute version, then?
― Mark G, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 15:33 (seven years ago) link
thanks, man, let me know what you think ... there's at least one version of the Church covering "Cortez the Killer" with Verlaine on guitar floating around ... iirc it's not quite as good as it sounds in theory, but it's cool.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 15:34 (seven years ago) link
xp -- it's embedded in the article? showing up for me at least ...
― tylerw, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 15:35 (seven years ago) link
Ah, will have to, later. Ta.
― Mark G, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 15:36 (seven years ago) link
heads on the hunt for Television rarities should go here: http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/tagged/television
― tylerw, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 15:38 (seven years ago) link
I believe Tom Verlaine was opening for The Church. I wish I could find the rest of the post, but it's gone. I do remember him saying how TV would obsessively pour over lunch bills, and howl if he overpaid by as much as 25 cents.
― kornrulez6969, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 18:33 (seven years ago) link
penny pinching hilarious sarcastic weird mannothing like what i expected
That's exactly what I would have expected tbh.
― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Wednesday, 8 February 2017 18:35 (seven years ago) link
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 18:37 (seven years ago) link
yeah, they are both weirdos. if they didn't play guitar so well together, they probably would have never spoken to one another.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 18:38 (seven years ago) link
I believe Tom Verlaine was opening for The Church. I wish I could find the rest of the post, but it's gone
https://web.archive.org/web/20060630060143/http://stevekilbey.blogspot.com/2006/06/one-soft-infested-summer.html
― new noise, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 18:51 (seven years ago) link
I played that third album today..
I remember now: it wasn't the 'modern production values', it was the feeling that it all (well, 90% of it) could be a Lloyd Cole and the Commotions album, songwriting, vocals,the lot.
― Mark G, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 22:09 (seven years ago) link
i like the third album just fine, but i highly recommend tracking down the Live at the Academy 1992 disc they sold at shows for a minute ... think it's even on Spotify.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI4ve8KkO0I
― tylerw, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 22:14 (seven years ago) link
Having read Lloyd's piece, I found myself sympathising with Verlaine though that clearly wasn't the intent.
― Birds in Hell, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 22:56 (seven years ago) link
I saw them on the self-titled album tour, down in Washington DC. I had to go by myself, nobody was interested. But holy cow, it was one of the greatest shows I have ever seen. They were just so intense.
Fast forward about a decade later, I saw them again in NY. This time I had a bunch of friends. We left about 30 minutes into it. Slow, dull, no energy and they took about 10 minutes between each song to retune.
My friend put it best, "Tom Verlaine seems like he'd rather be playing shuffleboard."
― kornrulez6969, Wednesday, 8 February 2017 23:22 (seven years ago) link
I love that kilbey blog postHe hasn't deleted his blog in general has he?
― his eye is on despair-o (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 8 February 2017 23:40 (seven years ago) link
Discogs has a French promo single, unissued tracks, dated just after the issue of the third album.
Anyone know anything about it? Or is it a bunchafibs?
― Mark G, Thursday, 9 February 2017 15:58 (seven years ago) link
https://img.discogs.com/mbfz_8LScBRlDZUpOaPGUqfgjMw=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-2839065-1303387370.jpeg.jpg
Tracklist .1 The Revolution 3:13 2 Big Jo 0:35 3 Hoo
1 The Revolution 3:13 2 Big Jo 0:35 3 Hoo
I have found a review, which I nick and repeat here:
This was released with copies of the Self-titled album when it came out in some French department store. It's extremely rare, so naturally one would wonder: is it any good?Unfortunately no.All of the tracks are spoken word. The first two are intermittently interesting to listen to one time but are total garbage. Not even songs. The last one sounds like Captain Beefheart or something, spoken word with an occasional song part thrown in. I love some of his music so maybe I'm too kind towards this, because I think with about a minute cut off, it'd be a decent song.Also the drum sound is shockingly good. These two things each raise the rating by half a star. The last official Television studio release, and it's a complete throwaway -they clearly didn't take this release seriously-. Shame Tom Verlaine lost his mind, they were one of my favorite bands of all time. Hell, the live bootleg from around 2002 of unreleased tracks ("Call Mr. Lloyd" is the name and you can listen to it here: http://www.earcandyarchive.com/?p=24 ) is fantastic, so they clearly could make a successful comeback if they wanted. Sadly Tom is so nuts he hears aural flaws nobody else does whenever he tries to make a new album with the band. Resulting in: an excessively sterile/muted sound (on self-titled he'd only gotten to this stage), some huge fit, and lastly him scrapping everything they'd just recorded. A new album was supposed to come out around 2010 I think but it's now 2016 and not a word has been heard from him aside from occasional live shows... which used to be fantastic but are slowly getting worse.May he find peace.
Unfortunately no.
All of the tracks are spoken word. The first two are intermittently interesting to listen to one time but are total garbage. Not even songs. The last one sounds like Captain Beefheart or something, spoken word with an occasional song part thrown in. I love some of his music so maybe I'm too kind towards this, because I think with about a minute cut off, it'd be a decent song.
Also the drum sound is shockingly good. These two things each raise the rating by half a star. The last official Television studio release, and it's a complete throwaway -they clearly didn't take this release seriously-. Shame Tom Verlaine lost his mind, they were one of my favorite bands of all time. Hell, the live bootleg from around 2002 of unreleased tracks ("Call Mr. Lloyd" is the name and you can listen to it here: http://www.earcandyarchive.com/?p=24 ) is fantastic, so they clearly could make a successful comeback if they wanted. Sadly Tom is so nuts he hears aural flaws nobody else does whenever he tries to make a new album with the band. Resulting in: an excessively sterile/muted sound (on self-titled he'd only gotten to this stage), some huge fit, and lastly him scrapping everything they'd just recorded. A new album was supposed to come out around 2010 I think but it's now 2016 and not a word has been heard from him aside from occasional live shows... which used to be fantastic but are slowly getting worse.
May he find peace.
― Mark G, Thursday, 9 February 2017 16:04 (seven years ago) link
"Hoo" is 04:56 btw
― Mark G, Thursday, 9 February 2017 16:05 (seven years ago) link
that Revolution single isn't all that bad, but it's not a hidden classic or anything -- sounds like half-finished leftovers from the s/t sessions. Definitely not worth the $90 they're asking on Discogs.
― tylerw, Thursday, 9 February 2017 16:29 (seven years ago) link
A nice post-script to the evolution of "Marquee Moon" would be the live 13:58 version from the 1982 live disc on The Miller's Tale comp, just because the recording is so good, and an interesting example of Verlaine solo.
― Fastnbulbous, Wednesday, 1 March 2017 19:52 (seven years ago) link
I think its the same as on the 12" b-side of "The funniest thing"
Edit: Apparently not, its from 1987, but its still good though.
― Mark G, Thursday, 2 March 2017 00:00 (seven years ago) link
Oh, "Revolution"is on it!
Riiiiight....
― Mark G, Thursday, 2 March 2017 00:03 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, that 1982 gig is stellar. I think Tyler has some bootlegs that are equal to it on his site.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Thursday, 2 March 2017 00:36 (seven years ago) link
This one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMOyNTk5WZM
― brownie, Thursday, 2 March 2017 01:02 (seven years ago) link
6-4-82 at the Ritz does not quite have the sound quality of the millers tale gig but the intensity is even higher. On that MM, Verlaine takes a striking unaccompanied solo.
Bowery Ballroom 2006 is also a fantastic Verlaine band live recording showing what that year's songs album could do
― Cognition (Remix) (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 2 March 2017 01:25 (seven years ago) link
i wrote the script for this little marquee moon video -- they found a few cool pics i hadn't seen beforehttp://pitchfork.com/tv/56-liner-notes/1967-explore-televisions-marquee-moon-in-5-minutes/
― tylerw, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:34 (seven years ago) link
nice!
― niels, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:41 (seven years ago) link
That's awesome Tyler!
― iris marduk (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 13 April 2017 22:36 (seven years ago) link
thanks, jon -- obviously nothing too revelatory for heads, but I think they did a nice job with it...
― tylerw, Thursday, 13 April 2017 22:42 (seven years ago) link
love this pic of Lloyd -- i assume it was taken some time towards the end of "Satisfaction"
― tylerw, Thursday, 13 April 2017 22:49 (seven years ago) link
https://68.media.tumblr.com/6c6b74a08980bc2a01ddc7bd953b2af1/tumblr_inline_oocqdmtQEH1qzx4na_1280.jpg
― tylerw, Thursday, 13 April 2017 22:50 (seven years ago) link
lol
Stereo Review is a good source for "what's this crap?" contemporary hot takes on 'classic' LPs pic.twitter.com/qBbqCsKnYG— Bowiesongs (@bowiesongs) July 27, 2018
― mookieproof, Friday, 27 July 2018 19:42 (five years ago) link
Did he. . . did he even listen to the album?
― (V) (°,,,,°) (V) (Austin), Friday, 27 July 2018 19:48 (five years ago) link
not sure anyone who’s seen the elegantly cadaverous band on the cover of the record would want any more ‘flesh tones’ than there are on there already tbh
― a Stupendous Leg of Granite (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 27 July 2018 20:04 (five years ago) link
Seems this LP and Wire’s Pink Flag we’re very heavily discussed as rock classics 20 years or so ago, and maybe not as much these days?
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Friday, 27 July 2018 22:16 (five years ago) link
Are any rock classics heavily discussed these days?
― Father Ted in Forkhandles (Tom D.), Friday, 27 July 2018 22:39 (five years ago) link
The Thing
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Friday, 27 July 2018 23:34 (five years ago) link
I was interested in who "N.C." might be, and after looking around a bit, found a site that archives Stereo Review for forty years:
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/HiFI-Stereo-Review.htm
Only recognized one name on the masthead circa 1977 (Steve Simels), but looks like Bangs reviewed records for them for a time. He reviews Bob Marley and Peter Tosh in the September '77 issue, also the Ramones in an earlier issue (the pages are missing on that one).
― clemenza, Saturday, 28 July 2018 00:39 (five years ago) link
N.C. = 'Noel Coppage'
also some sweet reviews of rumours and lust for life in that thread
― mookieproof, Saturday, 28 July 2018 00:42 (five years ago) link
title track is the closest a new york band ever got to Wishbone Ash
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 28 July 2018 16:29 (five years ago) link
Bangs was writing for Stereo Review at least as early as 1974, as he reviewed Quadrophenia.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Saturday, 28 July 2018 17:55 (five years ago) link
Good review...They've got a search button in the top right where you can look up Bangs, or specific albums. The other thing I love is all those old Marantz and Pioneer ads. I used to look at those ads as a teenager like someone else might look at Mercedes and Porsche ads.
http://www.magazine-advertisements.com/uploads/2/1/8/4/21844100/marantz-electronics-1-1.jpg
― clemenza, Saturday, 28 July 2018 18:12 (five years ago) link
Holy crap, $1285 today is around $7000 (and $298 just over $1600).
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Saturday, 28 July 2018 19:01 (five years ago) link
See No Evil just came on in Shooters Sports n Shorts bar in Leeds and I'm amazed.
― Minister of the Pillow (fionnland), Sunday, 29 July 2018 14:25 (five years ago) link
xpost you could get a hell of a nice integrated stereo amp today for $1285!
― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 29 July 2018 14:43 (five years ago) link
The Marantz, though, came with the TK421 modification, which they'd do right in the store. You don't get that anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La3U41b0WSU
― clemenza, Sunday, 29 July 2018 15:11 (five years ago) link
haha, great clip
― niels, Monday, 30 July 2018 16:26 (five years ago) link
That is funny. Where is it from?
― (V) (°,,,,°) (V) (Austin), Monday, 30 July 2018 19:01 (five years ago) link
Boogie Nights
― Making Plans For Sturgill (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 30 July 2018 19:02 (five years ago) link
haha, I'd totally forgotten about that scene, and it's not too far off from the Marantz ad copy (Gyro-Touch tuning! Built-in oscilloscope!)
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 30 July 2018 19:18 (five years ago) link
To be fair, Marantz is a pretty solid investment.
― (V) (°,,,,°) (V) (Austin), Monday, 30 July 2018 19:26 (five years ago) link
Oh, I agree. I found a cheap used 1030 a few years ago, and it sounded great/worked perfectly for a few years. Tank-like, too (until one of the channels died).
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 30 July 2018 19:31 (five years ago) link
Sorry, Marquee Moon, people love you and you will get your thread back soon...I started looking into where the company was now and came across this ad testifying to those tank-like qualities.
http://www.ca.marantz.com/Assets/Images/1974_Marantz_fire_ad.jpg
― clemenza, Monday, 30 July 2018 19:36 (five years ago) link
https://www.theringer.com/music/2022/4/13/23022787/television-marquee-moon-tom-verlaine-richard-hell
― Anita Quatloos (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 14 April 2022 00:15 (two years ago) link
With Lloyd doubling his parts, the effect was noir-cool as opposed to exploitation-flick-thrilling
― Anita Quatloos (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 14 April 2022 00:19 (two years ago) link