Big Star

Ultimately, I'm most partial to Third/Sister Lovers, but the first two certainly have a prominent place in my collection.

O My Soul

September Gurls

Down The Street

Mod Lang

I'm In Love With A Girl.

Yep. Legend secure...

The Rasperries - NO! Sugary proto-poodle soft-metal.

I also like 'I Am The Cosmos',the posthumous Chris Bell alb.

I heard Big Star before I heard either the Posies or Replacements or even the Fannies (a brother who had exceedingly bad taste most of the time finally got something right when he got "#1 Record" / "Radio city" in '91), and I've converted my fellow bandmate (a Fannies / Replacements / Smithereens fan) into a BS fan, his trying to convert me on the 'Mats and Smithereens has never worked in my direction for some reason. But we're totally agreed on the Posies and the Fannies though. Odd. I just can't get my head around the 'Mats at all, I've tried loads of times with different LPs of theirs, but still nothing. Mind, Paul Westerburg's last solo LP was rather good!

Bandwagonesque was all fine & good, but a bit slow (even when going fast) and surprisingly bland as a whole. Pleasant in certain situations, though. This is the only album I can confidently speak on, so feel free to ignore my pronouncements.

'Britpop' = term with huge ever growing scope creep

The Stax org was in such disarray in the early '70s that it's a wonder the records even got out there as much as they did. I've read that each of the first two albums only got into the marketplace in ridiculously small quantities...4000/5000 is a number I've seen.

I don't know if they "define" any era. A post above maintains that to define era, their records would've have to been bought by somebody. So I guess they were one of the first true indie/critic's bands...the reviews were mostly glowing. In retrospect they do seem to define the period much better than any number of more popular acts, though. I see nothing wrong with revisionist nostalgia myself.

For a long time I loved them without reservation, then went thru a period during which I'd just heard them too much. For a lot of us they were like the Beatles, the absolute gold standard of pop records. Now I just accept them as a great pop band, period, and wish people would quit gushing about them so much, or maintaining that they weren't really all that good. As a live band they seem to have sucked; but I can't think of any better-conceived record than "Radio City." Such style. And they seem to define not an era but a state of mind, one epitomized by the Eggleston "red ceiling" photo that graced the original "RC" LP...bad dreams and vibes in an oversexed room, distilled into melancholy, perhaps? With a few good times vaguely recalled? Maybe that's the '70s, I don't know.

Interesting to see what the new Big Star album will be like...

of course, Chilton & company could scrape a chalkboard with rusty chisels and this guy would say it's the best thing ever.

(I think I listen to Third the most, too)

I wonder how committed Chilton is to the whole idea of Big Star these days. Probably not very. I didn't think much of "Hot Thing."

guys seriously I love "Ballad of El Goodo" so much

I want to be in a band that covers this

don't make me say a bunch of shit about it, just fire back re: yes this would be a pretty good thing to do, be in a band that covers this

yeah

I purchased the Blitzen Trapper song 'Summer Town' just because the vocal hook reminded me of BS' 'Thirteen.'

iiiiijjjjj where do you live?

Ya know, Evan Dando covered "El Goodo".

'Thirteen'>>'El Goodo'

fucking love them. i honestly feel sad for anyone who who passes them by.

drooone otm but it doesn't even matter

overrated Grandpappy Indie (VU notwithstanding); not worthless, but nor are Wishbone Ash, for goodness sake
-- mark s, Wednesday, October 17, 2001 5:00 PM (5 years ago)

"overrated"

overrated Grandpappy Indie (VU notwithstanding); not worthless, but nor are Wishbone Ash, for goodness sake

-- mark s, Wednesday, October 17, 2001 5:00 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark Link

ENLIGHTENING

uh x-post

and 'mod lang' is what needs to get cover treatment

"Mod Lang" is quite easy to play, so a cover would be cool.

and somehow, strangely, Big Star lives on.
http://www.ticketweb.co.uk/user/?region=gb_london&query=detail&interface=shepemp&event=257724
wish i could go ... is this one of them Don't Look Back things? Are they playing Radio City in its entirety?
i'll also take this opportunity to say that Alex Chilton probably has one of the top 5 singing voices in rock and roll history. Serious.

Actually, listening to Radio City and Third, Alex Chilton kind of reminds me of a vanilla Barrett Strong Rude from Lethem's "Forttress of Solitude." Moments on Third definitely sound fucked up enough to come from three-week coke binges.

That being said "Blue Moon" and "Stroke it Noel" totally PWNs! The former is better than "Thirteen" (which, sadly, contains no oboes).

sweet jesus this band is good. they seem to have such a unique and effortless ear for hook and melody. such a pleasure to listen to.
and on another note, 'i'm in love with a girl' appeared on a shuffle the other day. i was feeling a little absent-minded and it took me about 30 seconds to recall who it was without checking. such a sweet, simple song and yet it feels about 20 years ahead of its time.

"i'll also take this opportunity to say that Alex Chilton probably has one of the top 5 singing voices in rock and roll history. Serious."

Agreed. Vulnerability and attitude in brilliant proportion.

yeah, i'll concur there

Sweet, poppy, cool, but also kinda fucked up. Quite obviously on Third, but also the hatefully desperate vibe on "Life Is White," and "She's a Mover" is some MANIC shit. I loved them when I was younger -- I was listening to "Thirteen" when I was 13 (funny how i hear it differently now -- so I was amazed when I put their records on about a month ago and they sounded better than ever. It's true, they will always somehow sound contemporary, like any inspired true-believing rock&roll, hey hey my my

Hes got a good range on Like Flies On Sherbert too, a bit more free than the Big Star stuff

I love that album! It was a recent discovery for me. It's absolute proof that he was in complete sympathy with all things Rock n Roll. "Hey! Little Child" is amazing with its "Whold Wide World" beat* and Chuck Berry-level teenage lechery.

"Oh little fool, are you learning anything in school
maybe you might drop out, maybe travel somewhere down south
Hey hey little child"

*is there a better name for this beat? I had heard it all my life, but it never really came to life until I heard the Wreckless Eric song

hehe! very observant. I really dont know though, have to do some research...

Radio City: best guitar and drum sound, ever. perfect. archetypal.

@people explosion:

it's called the "Cha-Cha".

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JC0Wa3P_dO0&fmt=18

from the dvd accompanying the Oxford American Best of the South issue this month

that is sweet! thanks.

the 'aptly titled number one record' thing's kind of off though, right? i thought that lazy stax distribution meant that they never really did much, sales-wise.

i'm seeing them in a couple of months. i think i'd maybe prefer to see alex play skewed guitar solos and clichés stuff alone, but, still, way exciting.

aptly titled 'cause it was their first.

cool video!

"Hey! Little Child" is a cha-cha. xp

why in the world would they couple this footage with that tune?

aptly titled 'cause it was their first.

ahhh, thanks.

have the ardent studio sessions been discussed here yet?

I think what the fella meant was that it was No 1 Record as in it's NUMBER ONE, man. As in, Fuckin A, totally bodacious etc.

have the ardent studio sessions been discussed here yet?

is that the thank you friends comp? i think this is where i heard about it. i was pretty excited to hear the demo of downs, because there's a story about the recording of it in the book. apparently they were playing it, when some ardent a & r guy bowled in saying, this could be a HIT!, this song has POTENTIAL!, and so alex said 'i want to use a basketball for the snare drum'. well good.

Could someone explain where the song "Jesus Christ" came from? That is to say, they never had, to my knowledge, any other songs with any religious content and yet it seems to be unironic in its sentiment. The "we're gonna get born now" perhaps belies this a small bit.

"it seems to be unironic in its sentiment."

are you kidding. just listen to the way chilton sings the verses.

"they did rejoice/fine and pure of voice/and the wrong shall fail/and the right prevail": this couplet seems so completely trite that maybe it has to be ironic given that the album as a whole is about fucky uppyness, but I dunno, does chilton discuss it anywhere?

also there's loads of incongruous, disconcerting elements to the music which are clearly mocking or doubting the chorus.

mm, i don't know. he likes playing around with traditional song forms, and i've heard him intro it live as his 'christmas song'. maybe it's just him writing a carol.

i think chilton tips his hand when he sings "we're gonna get BORN!" haha.
still, there are a couple tunes on #1 Record (Chris Bell's, I think) that are, to me, at least a little bit informed by the christianity. maybe just "my life is right" now that I think of it. "Lord, I've been trying ..." I think Bell was fairly conflicted with being a gay/southern/christian/rocknroller. And who wouldn't be?

I've never thought this was ironic, nor the VU one

i dunno, i don't think that the VU's "Jesus" is ironic, necessarily -- though I suppose an argument could be made for a Jewish guy writing a hymn of praise to Jesus is ironic in some sense -- but it's not just a straightforward song. as reed has said, that third VU album is about love in all forms -- physical, spiritual, etc. i mean, i don't think lou has ever come out as a believer or anything. ANYWAY, i do think that Chilton's "Jesus Christ" is at heart a genre exercise, his own version of a christmas carol. i don't think it betrays any deepseated christian longings in the man though. fucking amazing song either way.

Big Star Albums Re-Released with New Tracks

cool, i'll probably buy the LPs

Big Star box set on the way http://blurt-online.com/news/view/2303/ Wonder how much overlap there'll be with the Thank You Friends comp (which is great).

tantalizing stuff here http://bigstarbook.blogspot.com/ As unified as Radio City sounds as an album (thanks in large part to John Fry behind the mixing board), it was actually somewhat cobbled together from a variety of sessions. What's Going Ahn stands out as the only track recorded outside the main RC sessions that was engineered by John Fry as a formal session (She's A Mover and Mod Lang came out of late night informal sessions by Chilton and Richard Rosebrough and Morpha Too and I'm In Love With A Girl were done by Chilton after the formal RC sessions).

Alex's acoustic demo for this song is simply stunning and will hopefully be included in the forthcoming Big Star box set. (There's also an equally strong demo for Life Is White.) Unlike a lot of demos, these are something far more than vague or rough sketches. The entire arrangements for the band are laid out in detail with just one guitar. Alex's vocals will send shivers down your spine – they're on par with Thirteen.

I keep meaning to order that book, it looks awesome.

yeah i didn't even know it was out -- it does sound pretty great, like the author got a lot of access.

I enjoyed the 33 1/3 book, but maybe its release was rushed a bit, since it's littered with typos.

http://www.rhino.com/store/ProductDetail.lasso?Number=519760
great song from the box set streaming: the seed that grew into stroke it noel when alex heard the string part i guess. there's SO much unreleased big star stuff i'd love to hear; the javanovic book from a couple of years ago talked about alex eradicating all the backing vocals from takes of third era stuff to make a whole new record.

oh man this song is pretty good

overrated Grandpappy Indie (VU notwithstanding); not worthless, but nor are Wishbone Ash, for goodness sake

vintage challops

yeah song is nice; description of what's going ahn demo sounds great too, that song's pretty perfect. there are all these beautiful stories about the backstory (like a GREAT one i think i typed somewhere before about jim dickinson's crutches on nature boy), and one of them is a similar sort of thing as above about watch the sunrise; when big star were rock city but starting to hang out with alex, they ended up in the studio asking him if he had any songs or what he could do, and he sat and played it, and that's it, just with an overdubbed twelve string at the start. so great.

yeah, the "Lovely Day" streaming on the Rhino site is awesome! Thought it was going to be the solo acoustic thing from the Thank You Friends site, but i guess not! Can't wait for this box ...

yeah me neither; I'm thinking of pre-ordering it this weekend after I get paid, just so I don't forget about it when it comes out.

whoah that demo is amazing!! totally different lyrics/melody, but the weirdo rhythm of the backing track and the descending riff are all there - bizarre.

It's a neat historical document, but that song definitely isn't as good as "Stroke It Noel." In fact, it sounds a bit incongruous to me, kind of like an odd mashup.

nah, it's not as good, but I pretty much love hearing ANYTHING by this band

Yeah, not as good as "Stroke It Noel," but it sure beats anything on that In Space crap.

keep an eye on the sky has leaked, apparently

another box set i cannot afford at the moment. :'(

Anyone heard it? Is the previously unreleased stuff any good?

http://www.memphisflyer.com/TheDailyBuzz/archives/2009/09/16/big-star-box-set-behinds-the-scenes

@d@m h1ll is a hero & a total bro

cool interview! this box set does sound amazing ... if yr like me and have to wait before buying, there's this very neat recording: http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/187210978/dusted-in-memphis-in-honor-of-yet-another

There's nothing revelatory in the unreleased stuff, just a lot of little bits and pieces that are nice to hear. I lol'd at this bit in the Pitchfork review "adding incomprehensible backing vocals to the Velvet Underground's "Femme Fatale""

incomprehensible if you don't speak French

hee hee!
is the live stuff as good as some are saying? better than the live ryko disc?

I guess elementary French isn't a job requirement at Pitchfork. Haven't really delved into the live disc yet.

tbf those bkg vocals ARE really slurred n blurred. I thought they were done by Alex's gf tho.

yeah, think they're done by "Leeza" who gets a shout out in "Kizza Me" ...

I don't think the live album adds much. And there are various live shows that have circulated for years.

But a lot of the demos are pretty great. The remastering is excellent, and the book is good. I really like it. I thought the P4K review was good (although, can I just add that the P4K review of the new Jim O'Rourke album is nearly unreadable.)

I've only listened to the first disk so far and it's louder than I'd like but not overwhelmingly so for 2009. It's really great, as you'd expect. I'll have more to say as I finish listening to it.

eee i want this pretty bad ... is the best deal on Amazon? Going for $49.99 right now.

kinda want this but thinking it's gonna be everything i already have plus some mildly interesting filler

pitchfork often reads like a high-school newspaper.

so does the box set have the fullness of the first two studio albums, in their correct orders?

pitchfork often reads like a high-school newspaper.

yes

nothing to say about the box set yet; listening to Sister Lovers though and thinking there ought to be a # to call when it seems like the right album to have on

btw d/l'ed that radio show Tyler from your blog and was surprised to see that it's where a take of "I Will Always Love You" that I've had for a while comes from. If that counts as having fun in the studio, shit, I don't know want to know what downs would be like. That take is fucking dark...they're having a lark until the spoken part and then no one's laughing, or should be, anymore; it's off the cliff.

yeah, it's dark -- I guess I've just had a theory that Alex Chilton is not actually a really depressed person -- just that he realized around this time that he could *sound* like a really depressed person, that he was really just following the sound of his own voice, if that makes sense. Maybe not.

Or following the girls/drugs.

lol yeah ... it is nuts how young chilton still was at that point, even tho he was practically a music industry veteran by then

on the box, the Chilton vox on "I Got Kinda Lost" are great.

lead vox, I should say

so does the box set have the fullness of the first two studio albums, in their correct orders?

― amateurist, Saturday, 19 September 2009 18:48 (Yesterday)

um, sort of... a bunch of tracks have been replaced with alternate versions but the running order is the same except for one Chris Bell song added near the end of Radio City. See here:

http://www.rhino.com/store/ProductDetail.lasso?Number=519760

I don't think Sister Lovers ever really had a running order so I'm not sure about that, it looks different from the Ryko CD.

also "There Was A Light" with Chilton lead vox (and it's excellent; a demo sounding like a Sister Lovers outtake); so it has my four fav songs from I Am The Cosmos: the last two I mentioned (with Chilton as lead), plus "I Am The Cosmos" and "You And Your Sister" (the regular album versions).

yeah I like I Am The Cosmos (the album) a lot, but it's overshadowed by how unbelievably amazing You & Your Sister is ... one of my fave songs ever. other songs can't help bit suffer in comparison ...

Those four I listed are really great, but "You And Your Sister" (a B-side!) aches so hard; a cost of keeping it in the closet.

yeah, that's kinda what i think the song must be about. not easy being a closeted gay christian southern dude in the 70s i'd imagine.

"And I'm thinking, Christ, nullify my life."

Wow, the clarity really helps "Daisy Glaze"; before I just focused on the "you're gonna die" and "nullify my life" part but now the beginning part is spread wide open instrumentally, with lots going on in the background besides the ache...Radio City is such a great album.

btw the transposition of Christ with heroin ("Heroin") there is a genius pop lyrical move, like the kind that justifies a whole career.

(I'm guessing that's a Bell write despite it being a Chilton vocal)

love that dolly parton cover, tyler

I listened to the live set on the fourth disk of the box, and it was no big deal. It's good but I don't it justifies purchasing the set. The band seems a little edgy, probably because they were opening for Archie Bell and the Dells, and that's not a great match for songs like "ST 100" and "The India Song". A low point is the sequence "Thirteen" -> "The India Song" -> "Try Again" -> "Watch the Sunrise", where you can hear the crowd getting more and more restless; as a listen it's deflating. Then they come back strong with "Don't Lie To Me" and things improve a little, but they've lost the crowd by then. And on a box set where you already have multiple versions of many of these, saggy versions of them are bad value. I don't see myself relistening to the live set very often.

The Sister Lovers demos are pretty nice but I'll take the album versions over them easily.

Disks 1 and 2 are pretty great though!

tbf those bkg vocals ARE really slurred n blurred. I thought they were done by Alex's gf tho.

they sound terrible to me, and I wish they had been removed, honestly. They were indeed done by Alex's girlfriend Lisa, who apparently did a lot more vocals on the album. Alex deleted these, which if I remember correctly, upset both Lisa and Jim Dickinson a lot. The latter felt like it seriously damaged the album. This is all from the Big Star book, whose name eludes me at the moment.

"Kangaroo" is next-level. I don't like the This Mortal Coil version though

They were indeed done by Alex's girlfriend Lisa, who apparently did a lot more vocals on the album. Alex deleted these, which if I remember correctly, upset both Lisa and Jim Dickinson a lot. The latter felt like it seriously damaged the album. This is all from the Big Star book, whose name eludes me at the moment.

yeah, i was kinda meaning to chip in with this having read the book and being amazed that these have been released. it's kinda how the lp was intended until LX split and hastily deleted everything, apparently for the worse. still haven't heard but pretty intrigued.

i love the story in that book about jim dickinson's crutch & kid & piano on nature boy, it totally changed how i hear that song

wait, there ARE versions of Third w/ more female backing vocals that have been released? and what book are we talking about here?

the book's by rob jovanovic if i recall correctly, i forget the name; and i haven't heard the set but am under the impression that it has at least something offa third with lesa's vox

ooh guess what mother-in-law got me for my birthday!

I'm lovin a lot of the previously unreleased stuff - the evolution from the Lovely Day demo to Stroke It Noel is beautiful. Original version of Downs is shocking.

can you ask your mother in law to get this for me too?

maybe. when's yr birthday

So all I've ever had is the #1 Record/Radio City twofer, never managed to get ahold of Third/Sister Lovers. If I pick up the box, will I still be needing to track that down?

i actually found a CD copy of third/sister lovers at a sale a couple months ago. buried in a pile of garbage so i was shocked/pleased to find it. it's probably not all that rare tho

the box set has all the stuff on the Ryko CD reissue of 3rd/Sister Lovers with a couple extra/extended things so I would say no, you don't need to track down any other versions.

and yeah, there's no "official" running order really for the album - the box set has a completely different (and imho mostly better) running order than the Ryko reissue.

Thanks, thats exactly what I was wondering.

what is the tracklist for the boxset? i wonder if it's the same that's on my italian bootleg from the 80s that i reprogrammed my ryko CD to.

^^^for sister lovers^^^

Here's the tracklist for the disc its on in the box:

1. Lovely Day (demo)
2. Downs (demo)
3. Jesus Christ (demo)
4. Holocaust (demo)
5. Big Black Car (alternate demo)
6. Manana
7. Jesus Christ
8. Femme Fatale
9. O, Dana
10. Kizza Me
11. You Can't Have Me
12. Nightime
13. Dream Lover
14. Big Black Car
15. Blue Moon
16. Holocaust
17. Stroke It Noel
18. For You
19. Downs
20. Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On
21. Kanga Roo
22. Thank You Friends
23. Take Care
24. Lovely Day
25. Till the End of the Day (alternate mix)
26. Nature Boy (alternate mix)

it is not the same

(btw mo-in-law also got me the bio ref'd upthread so I am gonna be deep in Big Star country for a few weeks methinks)

So I did end up grabbing Keep An Eye on the Sky a couple nights ago and finished my first listen on the ride in this morning. Fantastic, such a revelation for me. But after reading some comments in this thread about the live disc, I'm wondering if anyone could point me to some good bootlegs. Because if that is a lackluster Big Star set, I'd certainly love to hear what is considered a great set.

yeah love the covers on the live set. T Rex! "Slut"!

i dont really know what album to buy by them, but i love thirteen, and was it alex chilton or cheap trick who sang the that 70's show theme song?

Cheap Trick covered the Big Star song "In the Street" for the That 70s Show themesong and appended a refrain from "Surrender" to the end

From wikipedia: "In a Rolling Stone magazine article in 2000, Chilton thought it was ironic that he is paid $70 in royalties each time the show is aired." (Dunno what's "ironic" about it, but kind of cool anyway. Alex deserves to make some money so he can keep on doing ... whatever it is he does with his time these days.)

being a dirty old man, I imagine

I think he referred to it as "That $70 Show"

the ironing is delicious

But srsly, is the Big Star "In Space" record the only thing he's done this decade? That's, um, not very much. I know Big Star has played maybe a handful of live shows ...

surely its no surprise that he's super lazy? post Big Star his output is totally sporadic

hey he's done some Box Tops reunion shows, too!

hey, how do i attack "keep an eye on the sky"? just listen all the way through or where should i start

Disk 3 is pretty inessential if you already have Sister Lovers, so I wouldn't say there...unless you're already in a Sister Lovers mood (which I wouldn't wish on anyone, and I love the album; I gather you know what I mean). Disks 1 and 2 are great, though the opening pre-Big Star songs are only good. But the alt takes of songs from the first two albums are great. I'd start there.

kind of am in a Sister Lovers mood to be honest, but i'll take your advice

After replying this morning I found myself in a Sister Lovers mood too and I listened to that 1975 radio session boot that Tyler made available, and that shit burns: like straight through Sister Lovers into an even darker place, if that's possible. There's an evil, dissolved vibe to the proceedings; Chilton tosses out the line "I'd rather shoot a woman than a man" so lazily that it's kinda shocking, the casualness of its violence mirroring the casualness of Chilton tossing his pop future away. The recording is shitty but some of the fuzz seems to be distortion on the guitar. It's well worth a listen.

interesting facts gleaned Jovanovic book: piano on Nature Boy is played by William Eggleston. You can hear one of Eggleston's young sons fiddling around with an organ in the background. Eggleston had hurt his leg recently and was on crutches. At 2:03 you can hear one of his crutches fall off the piano and hit the ground; Chilton stifles a giggle

I love that "Nature Boy" -- weirdly, it's the first version of that song I ever heard! Does Eggleston appear on anyone else's records?

I was totally oblivious to his involvement with Big Star, I only knew him from his photography. don't think he was much involved with music

his photos appear on other peoples records

well yeah I know but I mean I don't think he played music much

http://blakeandrews.blogspot.com/2009/07/william-egglestons-album-cover-guide.html

weird that that list omits Primal Scream's Dixie Narco EP

(half of which is clearly in the mode of Big Star's 3rd)

also lolz I never knew there was a connection between Chilton and Dennis Wilson, altho that explains a lot

apparently after the Box Tops broke up he and Dennis spent a weekend kicking it with Charlie Manson & the Fam.

and good times were had by all

Speaking of Chilton + Beach Boys, that fragment of "Don't Worry Baby" on the Thank You Friends comp is gorgeous -- wish there was a whole take of the song!

there's alex playing 'wouldn't it be nice' on some live acoustic release or boot. and doing jesus christ and stuff.

apparently the family's attempt to get to LX ended when he hit charlie. goodtimes.

& hearing the stifled smile in nature boy is so beautiful

apparently the family's attempt to get to LX ended when he hit charlie. goodtimes.

!!!! did not know this. is there a link somewhere with a comprehensive account? I just got a third-hand telling from one of the engineers who worked on In Space.

i totally can't remember where i heard it :/
i would guess the rob jovanovic book, and if not dumb angel, the dennis wilson book - probably the former. i think it's only referred to in passing, so there's no comprehensive account, just the idea that alex wasn't easily persuadable and so ... hit charlie.

got the Jovanovic bio for xmas (though not the box set grrr). Seems good, except the pukeworthy Ryan Adams quote on the back, and the first line of the book! "Unlike many US cities, Memphis has a rich and varied history ..." Uhhhh. What?

<3 <3 big star

yeah they're the best. also, just looking at the photos in the book, an extremely good looking band! How come they weren't huge? they had it all!

"Unlike many US cities, Memphis has a rich and varied history ..." Uhhhh. What?

lol yeah you're gonna LOVE the footnotes haha. its not a bad book once it gets going, lots of crazy stories. Chilton seems like kinda a dick (big surprise)

yeah, re: chilton's dickishness, this article, covering the late 70s/early 80s is great: http://www.crawdaddy.com/index.php/2009/11/12/alex-chilton-1975-1981/
He does seem like a weird guy! Even though I think he's the element that makes Big Star brilliant and not just really good power pop, he sure doesn't seem interested in that sort of music.

still reading the bio -- while there are some great stories/quotes/etc., man, this guy is not strong when it comes to writing about the actual music. is the 33 1/3 Radio City book better?

yikes, based on my exp with the 33 1/3 books, writing about the actual music is the worst ime.

yeah, i don't know, it's just this writer chokes whenever he actually discusses songs/albums. Like with Sister Lovers all he can say is "this album is an enigma, made for listening to late at night" or something similarly insightful.

the 33 1/3 book for radio city is actually done by a guy that played with alex chilton awhile back. he manages to get actual words out of chilton, so it does have that going for it. although, no real surprise, chilton's comes off as pretty indifferent or dismissive about some of the material on the album.

yeah, i looked at the 33 1/3 guy's blog and he seemed to have a better handle on music-writing thatn Jovanovic ... Will probably pick that up once I have the new box set ...

this is nothing to do with any of the above but i hope LX starts playing some more solo shows sometime. he seems to get such a bang out of standards and rattling through rock n roll numbers with pickup groups, and that's where he's at now.

i've not read the Jovanovic book, but i've heard similar criticisms about it. heard it about the Pavement book (which i've not read either), too. but i figured that a good deal of the blame for that one could be laid at the feet of Pavement...

(he did do the Pavement book, right?)

the Pavement book has this anti-Malkmus slant because Malkmus was against the book idea and the other dudes were all like "see, he is a dick... anyway, wanna hear my new song?"

yeah, pavement book is fine in terms of telling the story of the band ("they made records/toured/broke up") but when it comes to the music, it seems like he doesn't really have anything to say. i do appreciate that he digs fairly deep into the prehistory of these bands ...

having interviewed Alex Chilton in 1981 and seen him play in various contexts since then--maybe I've seen him 30 times, in every situation from Panther Burns to Big Star reunion to half-assed Alan Vega thing in NYC to New Orleans gig in which he was part of a band doing Huey Smith and Coasters covers to solo shows--I do think he's been a misunderstood artist in almost every way possible. He, I believe, is interested or was interested or is intermittently interested in the kind of thing Big Star did (gloss on West Coast '60s pop and so forth). The thing that people who have never spent time in Memphis truly attempting to soak up what's unique about the town's musical heritage can never understand is the sheer range of the musical endeavor the town has essayed. In Chilton's case, many people who have a rather limited understanding of what music is and will always be, at least in North America, think that the "powerpop" aspect of Chilton supersedes the other stuff he has been interested in preserving, much like Snooks Eaglin or some other broad-ranging musician who has sensed that the intersection of pop and something deeper and older (Elmore James meets the Beatles). In other words, there's always been something else and Alex Chilton has realized that--it's the source of his power and the reason so many people whose minds stop at "September Gurls" or whatever can't get their heads around the other stuff. The blues, r&b, thwarted pop, and so forth. I mean Artful Dodger were a good band but who cares about 'em now, whereas the Big Star records are a bit deeper.

The rub is that Alex Chilton sorta realized the contrast between the pop expectations of the '60s and the other stuff, which was always there and which is in my opinion as important as the Beatles or the Byrds. Chilton is correct to say that "Radio City" is a matter of production values as much as it is music; incorrect, perhaps, or just perverse, to say that the songs aren't "about" anything. Chris Bell, on the other hand, was more a Beatles obsessive.

So that's why I like the folkie shit on the Big Star box that came out this year. Like "Country Morn," where the words are all about how Chris Bell can't understand the world. Bell, had he lived, would've turned into...what? Freedy Johnston? Hard to tell. Whereas Chilton understood, I think, the limits of pop and its ability to understand the world, and I think he realized his audience (who is in the main rather more stupid than he is, given the short-sighted nature of pop fans who, after all, have an interest in getting RID of their past as opposed to gaining strength from it, as Alex Chilton has at least attempted to do) has the somewhat idiotic idea that pop gets rid of history. Quite the opposite, right? Which is why 99% of everything written about Big Star sorta misses the point. At this late date in my life, I think "Third" is the one. A record that actually sums up what I've tried to grope toward in this post, about the way the past and present fight each other in the struggle to create pop, and the limits of pop. This is what Alex Chilton has tried to describe, and if he failed, so have we all.

ebb i surmise u r eddh and i would just like to say that you are my favorite poster on ilm and one day i wish to write with as much ease and beauty as you dawg. <3

seconded re. edd; so rich with ideas worth expressing.

I'd like to read more about why you think Third articulates something about how "the past and present fight each other in the struggle to create pop". The limits of pop part, I think I can see that, or at least how to go about trying to argue that. But where's the part about the past in Third? And I'm sympathetic, don't worry: I've spent my pop life trying to think backwards with enough grace to understand, say, Elvis Country.

Hi,

I did get a 'best of' but apart from a few tracks, I 'liked' rather than 'loved' it.

Possibly because of all that Teenage Fanclub / etc phase we all went through. Which is not their fault, obviously, but it all seemed like old news in a way.

OK, shoot me now.

i got into big star when i was a devout seventeen year old posies fan, and initially had a similar 'old news' response, but those three albums kept drawing me back, and only became more intriguing and enigmatic with each further listen. don't write 'em off yet, mark!

Well, put it this way, I had a similar (but different) reaction when i first heard "Odessey and Oracle", but our Alice insisted I play it again (and again), and she was right. (Alice is my daughter, she was eight then)

look at this guy
http://sexandfury.tumblr.com/post/323568501/alex-chilton

guys, the alex chilton solo demos on the box set ... holy moley.

I know!!!

which songs do you mean? this set is on emusic now, but since i have all the studio albums i ignored it.

mainly the sister lovers solo 12-string demos (end of disc two, beginning of disc three), but also the handful of radio city solo demos (end of disc 1, beginning of disc 2) ... kind of amazing performances, and esp. with the sister lovers ones, they cast the songs in a whole new light. and jesus, i love his voice.

i've also been digging the live set (disc 4) quite a bit. pretty rough in parts, but i love hearing chilton's guitar playing ... also, anyone who's played a show to an uncaring audience can take heart in listening to it -- one of the greatest bands of the 70s playing to a crowd that couldn't care less.

just listened to samples of demos for holocaust and nighttime. not sure i hear much of a difference (obv., can't tell much from :30 samples). it seems clearer/cleaner.

after years of being familiar with the basketball-as-snare-drum+steel drums and drunken piano version of Downs its truly revelatory to hear him play it crystal clear on a 12-string like its just some pretty ditty. the sound of the demos is just fabulous, I agree with Tyler there... the other demo stuff made me hunt down his 1970 album, which is hit-or-miss but has a few tunes that are drop-dead gorgeous AM radio Big Star pop template sort of stuff ("Every Day As We Grow Closer", "EMI Song (Smile)" in particular)

I think its just striking to hear the songs-as-written with all the space and fragility already built into them - they're integral parts of the structure. whereas you hear 'em on Third and its easy to think all that stuff was a studio-trick afterthought.

i agree with you on some of the songs, now that i'm listening to more. esp. blue moon

yeah, i mean, i like that you can hear the craft that went into the songs a little clearer, rather than being carried away by the overall destructo mood of Sister Lovers. Like on "Holocaust" it *doesn't* sound that different -- it's a solo piano thing on the demo, but the structure is pretty similar, even the weird dissonant "free" part. You kind of imagine that being something that just "happened" in the studio as the result of drugged out performers, but it's clear that's how Chilton envisioned the song from the start. and there's something pleasing/relieving (and typically chilton-esque) about the comically doomy chord he hits right at the end. "man, what a sad song, right?"

booklet has some sick photos, too -- like the outtakes from the radio city shoot at TGI Friday's! TGI Friday's in Memphis in 1973 was where the party was!

actually i mostly wish they had more from chris bell's solo stuff, but i guess that all made it's way into the i am the cosmos disc/reissue

title song and especially you and your sister are breathtaking tracks.

yeah, i haven't gotten that ... has anyone else (the double disc i am the cosmos thing)? worth it?

the very FIRST TGIF, if I recall correctly

x-post

I only have the Ryko I Am the Cosmos, can't imagine there's all that much more...?

Big Star film stuff (ref'd in the Jovanovic book)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC0Wa3P_dO0

not sure there is more. wasn't even a proper album, was it? just singles and scattered stuff assembled after bell's death

xp

I AM THE COSMOS - DELUXE EDITION contains a remastered version of the original 1992 Ryko compilation on one disc, plus a second disc of rare and unreleased music recorded between 1970 and 1976. On the second disc, all but two of the 15 tracks are previously unreleased. Among the wealth of unissued recordings are eight alternate versions and mixes of album tracks, including "You And Your Sister" with Mellotron in place of the original's string arrangement, and a later version of "Get Away" featuring Big Star's Alex Chilton on guitar, Ken Woodley on bass and Richard Rosebrough on drums.

i'd probably get it if it wasn't so much $$$ -- as with all rhino handmade products. why is it that they can charge $40 for 2 discs?

the ryko discs on emusic are "deals," i.e., sale priced. that deluxe edition isn't available, tho.

as for the rest of the box set -- totally good. the alt mixes of #1 Record are not an improvement overall, but what the hell, I know that record inside and out, I may as well hear some different backing vocals. random note: Steve Cropper on "Femme Fatale" is soooo good. One take apparently? And he didn't even know the song? Haha. Dude is amazing.

the different mixes/versions of Watch the Sunrise are the best of the lot imho

is that chilton singing backing vox on "you & your sister", or am i just hearing things?

yeah, that's him

How many songs on the box set are the exactly same as previously released on the three albums (as on common CDs)? All the 3rd stuff I've heard now sounds remixed.

not too many are exactly the same, though the 3rd stuff is mostly the same (or at least it says it's the same). Dunno about remixing -- I know the Ryko release was "remixed" when it was released, so I don't know if Rhino is just using those versions or if they did their own remixing. Sounds *better* for sure, not sure if it sounds different.

Some intro's/outros are longer, 'You Can't Have Me' and the 'Manana' intro of 'Jesus Chist' is longer given it's own track. Certainly sounds like different mixes to me, but there's no annotated information up on Spotify for these tracks.

gonna have to listen to the Sister Lovers stuff on the box again. I thought the 1st and Radio City alt takes were breathtaking. But I wasn't really in a mood where Sister Lovers made sense at the time and so it kinda washed over me that listen through.

1970 is great---and great sounding thanks to Terry Manning. The cover of "Jumpin Jack Flash" is better than the original b/c Alex finds the funk Jagger/Richards sensed but didn't fully articulate.

apart from the extended stuff already mentioned 3rd/Sister Lovers tracks sound the same as the previous Ryko reissue to me. I'm sure its been remastered, but that's different.

TGI Friday's was indeed born in Memphis.

just looking at those pictures makes me feel a little bit drunk

and speaking of those pics, pretty awesome that it's eggleston playing piano on "nature boy" ... really beautiful recording -- chilton and him should've done a whole album of standards together.

The "Cheshire Cat smile" of Alex's mentioned in the Crawdaddy article, I have experienced it and indeed it is not pleasant.

yeah, from everything i've read, chilton is at the top of my list of artists i love who i'd never want to meet. him and lou reed, i guess.

TGI Friday's was indeed born in Memphis.

― Trip Maker, Friday, January 29, 2010 11:25 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

not according to wikipedia
The Friday's restaurant chain was founded in 1965 in New York City,
Their second location was established in 1970 in Memphis, Tennessee's Overton Square district; that location has since closed.

Shoot I don't know nothing. I always thought the Overton Square one was the OG.

http://www.bigstarstory.com/
Seems like a recipe for a lot of panning over photographs and talking heads, but, who knows, maybe they've unearthed some cool stuff ...

so wow uh RIP Andy Hummel:

http://music-mix.ew.com/2010/07/19/andy-hummel-dies-big-star/

see here: Alex Chilton RIP 2010

what the fuck

sad

r.i.p.

big star have a few nice songs. am i supposed to be impressed?

no, you're supposed to turn up your nose and post incredibly ill-timed messages on the internet about your failure to be dazzled

OMG! rip.

be impressed if you're impressed. they do have outstanding songs. in any event, the passing of chilton and hummel is rapid succession is very sad.

Magic Ksh:

Maybe it's cos I'm a 21st century lazy twat who's reliant on spotify and doesn't care about the context of a band's music, but I just don't get Big Star. And I want to like them, so I can be cool :(

Ugh I feel like a pretentious twat

Wait, I've only just noticed Hummel has passed away. My own fault for not reading the topic properly. Sorry :(

RIP

haha yeah i mean you're allowed your opinion, the timing was unfortunate was all but if that was totally unintentional don't sweat it

figured out "way out west" on the guitar tonight -- hummel didn't write a lot of songs, but hey, he wrote that one! RIP.

When is ksh coming back?

ksh has come back as user "CaptainLorax"

RIP Andy. What a shocker.

RIP.

It's kinda weird because I've been digging "Way Out West" a lot lately. A few weeks back someone I (sadly) still care too much for decamped for a month in LA. She'll be back in August, but it still made me sad. Our relationship hadn't played out like I hoped and the song captures that whole feeling particularly well.

Anyway, this morning I got an e-mail from her. The first in a few weeks, it was actually a form letter asking for help on a project she's starting once she gets back to Houston. Not exactly what I wanted to hear, but you know it's just another chapter in whatever it is between us. And then right after I find out about Andy...news I really didn't want to hear.

Thanks for the music, man.

and though it's no one's (not even Hummel's) fave song on #1 Record, I had come around to really liking the India Song -- kind of adds a unique element to the album as a whole. in the Big Star book, Hummel said he was kinda embarrassed by it, but it's a pretty little thing -- kind of makes me think of the Incredible String Band.

I've always held a soft spot for that song, actually.

India Song is unfairly maligned. I've always liked it.

I didn't used to but it's hard not to now, weird.
I'm gonna play it and Way Out West on my show tomorrow night, for sure.

http://ny-image3.etsy.com/il_fullxfull.147007851.jpg

and why don't you come on back from way out west
and love me, we can work out the rest...

r.i.p.

damn, i totally missed the news that andy hummel passed away too last year

rip

I was at a rep theatre in Toronto tonight, and they played "September Gurls" before the film.

guess the box set won a grammy for best liners? it really is an essential box, even if you've got the albums already.

did Jody Stephens post on ILX once or did I just imagine that?

did he? that'd be cool, he seems like a nice guy.
hey i just posted a rare-ish big star bootleg over yonder: http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/3297965849/way-out-east-havent-seen-this-show-posted-around

That is awesome.

it really is an essential box, even if you've got the albums already.

Tyler, can you elaborate? I haven't sprung for it, it just didn't feel like alternate versions and a dodgy bootleg (much less than soundboard quality doesn't work for me) justified the investment.

My buddies who recorded at Ardent describe the studio layout as one small central room with surrounding bigger rooms.
The only thing in the central studio is Jody's drums. They heard him rehearsing along with Big Star records (that he had to borrow from someone) getting ready for the SXSW reunion gig.
I've said it on here elsewhere, but the box is definitely the best encapsulation of a band's career that I've ever experienced.
xp well it sounds AMAZING and the booklet is incredible. The live disc in there breaks my heart, though, and I can't listen to it very often. A band at the absolute top of their game playing in a room full of people that seem completely disinterested. But they fucking cook. The choice of cover songs is inspired, as well.

The alternate versions of songs from Third (the acoustic demos) really put that stuff into a different context that is worth hearing.
I didn't like the first album all that much until I listened to it in the box set, but I can't describe why or how. The price of the box is worth the version of the Radio City band doing the Chris Bell song "There Was A Light" alone, in my opinion.

Sorry, I know you didn't ask me, but I listened to Big Star every day for at least six months after buying the box set.
The live disc is pretty poor sounding. It pretty much reveals just how undervalued Big Star was in their lifetime (and in their own environment, even). Heavy listen. And they cover Hot Burrito #2.

re: the box set, the chilton solo demos are really the main draw for me -- just these beautiful solo 12-string versions of radio city/sister lovers tunes. they really highlight how well-crafted those songs really are - and how planned out. the sister lovers stuff has a rep for being "crazy/improv" in the studio kind of stuff, but the demos show that chilton had it pretty well mapped out for the most part. as for other unreleased stuff, like trip maker sez, "there was a light" is essential, as is "got kinda lost." i really like the live disc -- the sound quality seems pretty clear to me, and there is a lot of chilton's fantastic guitar playing. the burrito bros cover is rad. anyway, if you can get it for $40 or so, totally money well spent.

also, yeah, the live disc is amazing in that you can literally count the number of hands clapping. i think it's six.

Add me to the fans of the box. It's a really gorgeous package. My issues with it are sorta minor. The rarities impact was dulled slightly by that Thank You Friends thing on Big Beat from 2008, which scooped the box by offering 19 rare/unissued Chilton/Ice Water/Big Star trax--most of which popped up again on the box, but there still are some exclusives (although Ardent should be dropping expanded editons of 1970 & 3rd/Sister Lovers later this year which may fix that). On the other hand, that set had only a couple of the Chilton solo demos, which are a real revealation as both Tyler & Tripmaker have said.

I've picked up three of the four (now OOP) Box Tops cds from the Sundazed garage sale. It would have been nice to have had some of the Chilton originals on the box, but I imagine space limitations and licensing restrictions kept them off the table. "Together" and a post-break up b-side "Since I Been Gone" would have fit in well on the first disc.

that thank you friends set is essential too! even with the overlap w/ the big star box. haha, maybe i'm not the most reliable source for this stuff, i love it all.

the box set surpasses all previous releases/reissues from the band. I gave away my copies of the other versions I had after I got the box set. the demos/alternate versions are almost all uniformly amazing, the booklet and packaging are gorgeous. it's THE comprehensive document of the band's output.

the box set is totally amazing, though I did a double take on some of the Chris Bell tracks which are sped up a tad from the original CD issue. (The same is true for the Chris Bell remaster.) There are a million ways to screw up that kind of modified track listing plus rarities project, but they didn't screw it up and the result is a whole new perspective on albums that anyone who bought the set has already listened to dozens of times.

huh, hadn't noticed the differences in the chris bell tracks -- wonder if that's more true to chris' intentions, or just a mistake?

i haven't gotten the latest reish of i am the cosmos, though. i like my ryko version ...

hmmm yeah I only have the Ryko version, hadn't noticed the difference either

I've been wanting to get that Ardent comp for awhile, just haven't been able to afford it.

there's one pretty amazing big star thing on the thank you friends set that didn't make the box set -- the radio city version of "big black car" ... at least i think it's the radio city version. earlier, anyway.

IIRC was done to match the speed on the 45, which was different from what was on the album. Definitely for "I am the Cosmos" but I seem to remember it for another track too.

the demo version of Big Black Car with just the 12-string... whooeee

ha, yeah, that song is wasssssssted. also, the "maybe we'll fuck in a holiday inn" line (as opposed to third's "sleep") is wild.

http://omnivorerecordings.com/artists/big-star/

Awe-some.

yeah looks cool, tho the whole record store day thing kinda bums me out. there are so few record stores anywhere near me! ugh. and when i did go to a record store day thing a year or two back, they didn't have any of the "special" releases I wanted!

Big Star’s Third to be Performed Live in NYC

http://ardentstudios.com/2011/03/14/big-stars-third-to-be-performed-live-in-nyc/

One can only imagine the track sequence repercussions.

oh man a real test pressing! that's like the Big Star Golden Ticket

Got the boxset for my birthday! Man this sounds good. Love the piano on "Every Day As We Grow Closer". Listening together with the giver now (only 10 songs into the first disc) - thx love :)

was just listening to that first disc. great, great stuff. and it just gets better!

I just listened (like, an hour ago) to that 1974 boot posted above---it's good! The band sounds down (gear stolen'll do that). But the "Candy Says" is really nice, scuzzy & aching.

cool, yeah, i love that recording. almost comical, them having all their equipment stolen. a band with bad luck! but it's impressive that chilton can make borrowed equipment sound so good. and the "candy says" is pretty nice, too bad there isn't a studio version of that one!

is there anything different about this "test pressing" version of third that's gonna be available on record store day?

here's the info:

What the heck is Big Star Third, anyway? To be honest, it’s the kind of thing a doctoral thesis could be written about: a “lost” record re-discovered years after it was recorded, one that has seen many track listings, titles and album covers, a classic, an enigma.

Third comes from sessions with Big Star’s Alex Chilton, Jody Stephens and a bevy of session musicians, recorded with producer Jim Dickinson in 1974 and early 1975. Whether it was actually intended to be a Big Star album is up for debate, but a couple hundred test pressings made in 1975 clearly list it as Big Star III, as does the original tape box (now lovingly reproduced here for you). Until the cavalcade of reissues began in 1978, all that existed were those test pressings. And since that time, it has been reissued and resequenced into something other than what the original product was: a 14-track pressing of pure bliss.

We here at Omnivore have decided to transport you back 36 years, to a time and place where this platter of polyvinyl chloride was all that existed–a truly faithful replica of that Ark of power pop goodness (complete with replicas of the original tape box, tracking and lead sheets, mastering card and pretty white blank label). This limited edition is being cut from the original assembly reel, on the same lathe at the legendary Ardent Studios in Memphis and by the very same engineers who cut it the first time, Mr. Larry Nix and Mr. John Fry! Pressed on high quality vinyl at RTI, this should be the definitive version of this album.

To make things even more special, in the worldwide, limited run of 2,000 copies, five copies of the original test pressings (courtesy of Jody Stephens) will be inserted into the mix. Which means not only that you can listen to a bit of history—but if you’re lucky you could own it, too. To make things even cooler, those five copies have been signed by Jody, original mastering engineers Larry Nix and Ardent’s John Fry.

Third time’s the charm, indeed.

woah talk about winning the lottery if you got an actual test pressing.

damn i want that bad, record store day is getting so stupid but there is some good stuff, really want this, the pink floyd thing, and the arthur russell reissue

yeah i want a lot of the record store day stuff this year, too! but i probably won't even make it to a record store ;_;

hmmm
http://ardentmusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Big-Star-Live-EP-FRONT.jpg
Artist: Big Star with John Davis
Album: Live Tribute to Alex Chilton EP
Format: 7 inch 33-1/3 rpm vinyl
Release Date: 6/2011
Description: This 7-inch 33-1/3 rpm vinyl was produced to give people a little peak into the special night that was the Big Star tribute to Alex Chilton that took place in Memphis on the night of May 15, 2010 at the historic Levitt Shell.
Here's a message from Big Star drummer Jody Stephens about this special item:
“For our last performance as Big Star, Jon, Ken and I had some very good friends join us to celebrate the music and lives of Alex, Andy and Chris on May 15, 2010. The performances really tell the story of what happened and how we all felt about that evening at Memphis' Levitt Shell. The idea of trying to release the show in its entirety was overwhelming in the sense of time and effort needed for all performance clearances. So I thought, first artist first: John Davis was the first of many wonderful guest artists to join us on stage. He wailed on three songs: "In The Street," "Don't Lie To Me" and "When My Baby's Beside Me." These were just the right amount songs (and time) for an EP release. So with mastering engineer Larry Nix and Big Star's engineer, John Fry, and our Neumann cutting lathe all residing in the Ardent Studios building how could we not cut vinyl?
“We hope to release more of the show down the road. Thank you.”
-Jody Stephens

I'm in no place to judge people's weight issues or anything, but JON AUER GOT HUGE.

He didn't avoid parties, apparently.

the biggest star

"a little peak into the special night"

Arrrggghhh. Is it that fucking hard to proofread a press release these days?

jon stoutfellow

the biggest star

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_7SK2yeqR_4
kind of bored by the narrative approach of "why wasn't this band more popular" but maybe that won't be the whole shebang. also a little bored by that effect on photos that makes them "move" or whatever. but who am i kidding, i'll watch this.

hmm what's the track at the end...? I didn't recognize it (and yes I have the box set) Agree about the ho hum angle but otoh ... studio footage!

have i forgotten how to get youtubes to show up?
sounded like an early version of "ST 100/6" maybe? definitely not on the box set.

also a little bored by that effect on photos that makes them "move" or whatever.

Ken Burns much?

well i dunno, this is not just panning over a photo laboriously a la burns, but kinda like cutting up the elements in the photo and zooming out to give it a sort of 3-d effect? there's probably a name for it. just feel like i've seen it a lot lately.

first place I recall seeing it was The Kid Stays in the Picture

yeah...i think maybe it's in the beatles documentaries too? the ones that came w/ the reissues.

first place I recall seeing it was The Kid Stays in the Picture

^^me too. i thought it was pretty neat for a bit but then it got old. and yeah, way overused these days.

yeah, i mean, it looks cool kind of, but it also just screams to me "we don't have any really good footage of this band!" which then calls into question the existence of a documentary in the first place.

This doc sounds like a great one

for me to poop on

Picked up the box for $20 at Bullmoose in Maine - a cut-out with a slice through the bar code! I'm as impressed as everyone else. One thing to c orrectc itt - the live disc sounds great, not bootleg quality at all!

Has anyone done a comprehensive A/B comparison between the released versions and the alternate mixes? I don't hear significant differences in many of them.

Was anything left off the box that can be found elsewhere? What's unique to the Ardent comp?

afaik, the demo of Big Black Car that's included on the Ardent comp is unique to that release. and it's great too.
some of the alt mixes on the box set are pretty similar to the released versions, yeah. haven't done an a/b comparison.
& yes! the live disc sounds great.

Don't have either in front of me at the moment, but the ardent thing has an extra Icewater track and an exclusive snippet of Alex singing "Don't Worry Baby".

in other news, looks like that big star doc is showing at sxsw http://schedule.sxsw.com/2012/events/event_FS12365

i feel like i'm really late to the party, but i'm just starting to get into big star for real. i've given #1 record a shot several times over the last decade but could never get into it that much, other than the big obvious stuff like Thirteen and September Gurls. but this time i skipped straight to Third and i love it, particularly the last half. over on the What is the original track sequence for Big Star's third record? thread (which prompted me to check out Third, incidentally), it seemed like the original tracklist is the way to go, even if it wasn't what Chilton intended for release:

http://i41.tinypic.com/125timd.png

i love the descent into o dana, big black car, holocaust and then kangaroo. Kangaroo, especially. what a fantastic song.

also, way upthread someone linked to a good article that focuses on Alex Chilton from 1975 to 1981. that link is now dead, but it's still online at http://www.pastemagazine.com/blogs/crawdaddy/2011/07/alex-chilton-1975-1981.html . the reason i mention it is that there was some brief discussion upthread about whether or not the lyrics of "Jesus Christ" are ironic. fwiw, the article says:

With less inspired results, Tiven had Chilton and company run through “Jesus Christ”, a song Chilton had recorded for Third. “I thought that was a really good song,” Tiven says. “When we did it, Alex sang it in a German accent and sang, ‘You’re going to rot in your grave tonight, Jesus Christ.’ He was really trying his best to be as offensive as possible.”

So, you have the cd with #1 Record AND Radio City on it, then?
Cuz Septembur Gurls is on Radio City while Thirteen is on #1 Record.
I had a similar experience to you, but it was Radio City that really clicked for me. It's an all time favorite now. I think it's a perfect record. After picking up the box set, though, I love it ALL. The demos of the Radio City songs and the Third songs are really great, check them out.

i don't actually own #1 record or radio city, i was just going off of memory and thought both songs were on #1 record. i'm planning on returning to those records at some point (Radio City in particular, i haven't given it a fair chance), but for now i'm just going to take my time with Third and let it soak in.

the demos of the Third material on the box set really put the lie to that album being half-assed/messy/drug-addled madness. Chilton's arrangements are clear as day.

xp

I mean sure there are weird production choices and touches and a lot of the delivery is off-the-cuff but the songs themselves have very definite structures

oh man, i should check that out. in the allmusic review of Kangaroo it mentions that Chilton recorded the guts of it on a single track, just 12-string guitar and vocal, and all of the other stuff was added the next day. i'd love to hear that original middle of the night version, although i love the washes of chaos of the recorded version too.

if there's a solo 12-string demo version of Kanga Roo (similar to those for Stroke it Noel, Big Black Car, Downs, Jesus Christ etc), it's not on the box set. The liner notes to the ryko reissue go into how Kanga Roo was recorded - iirc Jim Dickinson said Alex had overdubbed the mellotron and feedback and some other stuff all one channel as a deliberate challenge/test of Dickinson's patience and mixing skills

my other favorite anecdote from the Ryko reissue was about using a basketball as a snare drum for Downs

i got all 3 albums on some weird german 2cd many years ago... the tracklist for sister/lovers is 17 tracks long and really weird...

Kizza me
You can't have me
Jesus Christ
Downs
Whola lotta shakin' going on
Thank you friends
O, Dana
Femme fatale
Stroke it, Noel
Holocaust
Nighttime
Kanga-roo
For you
Take care
Blue moon
Dream lover
Big black car

that is weird. and plus, it loses the back to back order of Holocaust into Kanga-roo (Kanga Roo? Kangaroo?) which works so well not only because they're both in the same otherworldly bleak territory but also because the beginning of Kangaroo uses an almost identical melody to the one in Holocaust.

Holocaust chords are "borrowed" from Yoko Ono's "Mrs. Lennon" fwiw

I need "Blue Moon" near the end, find orderings where it's not p hard to follow

similarly, I find any arrangement that doesn't put Stroke it Noel first absolutely baffling

haha I love the Ryko opening with "Thank You Friends"

Holocaust chords are "borrowed" from Yoko Ono's "Mrs. Lennon" fwiw

never knew this, fwiw. mind's on crooked now.

it's pretty blatant - same key, tempo, piano part, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLeZTKEVGVk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsQ977u8Wuk

Damn, you weren't kidding.

Yoko ruins everything.

I should finally listen to Big Star. I have everything else released on Ardent and a lot of records recorded there. The Hot Dogs and Cargoe have become two of my favorite records, but I keep putting Big Star off for some reason.

speaking of mrs. john lennon and holocaust

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXRExocnpUw

Third turns out to be even better when you're wasted and bummed out! who could have predicted that?!

seriously though, as much as i enjoy the first half, there's this run from blue room>take care>jesus christ>femme fatale(well, eh on that one tbh)>o,dana>big black car>holocaust,kanga roo>thank you friends that's just astounding

very seriously though

opening chords to angie always make me wanna go "on a dark desert highway..."

blue room lol

blue room>take care>jesus christ>femme fatale(well, eh on that one tbh)>o,dana>big black car>holocaust,kanga roo>thank you friends

otm tho (except femme fatale cover is good too)

oh, i didn't mean the carrot signs to mean lesser than or greater than, i just meant i liked that whole flow from song to song!

and i like femme fatale cover too, actually, just not in the context of that slide into wasterdom

i just meant i liked that whole flow from song to song!

oh yeah, me too. might be my favorite song sequence anywhere ever. awesome in that it's relatable no matter how good or bad i'm feeling, and however dark it gets, it never brings me down. plus just songs. could live inside blue moon forever.

i'm so happy to have Third in my life. I dunno, this afternoon I devoted some serious time to #1 Record and Radio City, but Third is just...way more appealing to my ears. I always try to stay open to stuff, and i'll revisit their first two over and over again (and probably update this thread in 2017 or something), but at the moment Third really appeals to me more than the others.

first two are really great (like REALLY great), but i agree. third forever.

i don't know, the first two seem relatively straightforward to me. don't get me wrong, it's great pop, and repeated listens earlier today i was enjoying them (and i'll keep checking them out and i'm sure at some point i'll revive this thread and feel like a dumbass for not loving them from the beginning), but Third really hits at something a bit skewed that really appeals to me.

yeah, that's the difference. first two are brilliant, aching power pop gr8ness. 3rd is alltime rip yr guts out weirdo darkness shit. and i'm way more in that camp, but you know, i'm cool with brilliant aching power pop too.

i'm sure at some point i'll revive this thread and feel like a dumbass for not loving them from the beginning

one week later!

ok, i'm officially obsessed. i don't think i've listened to anything else in the last week, and since i just started digging into the demos/i am the cosmos/icewater/rock city shit it's only going to deepen from here.

WHAT'S GOING AHN!!!!

having said that, with that said, that being said, that having been said, i am a little afraid to wade into the alex chilton solo stuff. also, that big star biography mentioned upthread by rob jovanovic has some nice tidbits and i'm glad i took a few hours to read it, but it really is pretty terrible.

Chilton album 1970 is well worth time even without having to try to "get" Chilton

oh, definitely. it's more the post big star output that i'm wary of. is there a good collection that picks out the good stuff?

It sounds like Third is the Big Star record for me by what you guys said above. How do Big Star compare to other bands on the Ardent label like Hot Dogs or Cargoe?

xpost re: good stuff. Speaking as someone whose favorite Chilton song is the fucked up version of "Take Me Home and Make Me Like It" I'm not sure how anyone could define "good" with reference to his post-Big-Star stuff. That 1970 album is pretty good without getting too complicated about things...been listening to it a lot since it appeared on Spotify.

How do Big Star compare to other bands on the Ardent label like Hot Dogs or Cargoe?

Oh Jacob.

What?? So I've never heard Big Star, their records aren't cheap ya know

i've never heard any other bands on Ardent. But check out youtube! just search for big star +

september gurls
the ballad of el goodo
big black car
holocaust
what's going ahn
feel
thirteen
kangaroo

and so on

impressive that anyone would've heard of hot dogs and cargoe without hearing big star first -- they're basically footnotes to the big star story. those records are decent, but imo they pale in comparison to big star.
as for chilton the top 30 comp is a pretty decent overview. i've grown to love pretty much anything he's been involved with, but suffice to say he was taking a radically different approach to music making in his post big star days.

Surely he was trolling?

I wasn't trolling. I've been hoping to find their records while out record hunting. With certain groups I put off listening to them until I find them. I could go on you tube and listen to big star or I could wait until magic happens and I find one at a flea market. It's silly but it's also fun leaving certain groups to be heard.

yeah, i can understand that! with big star, though, i don't think i've ever seen one of their records on sale! they had major distribution problems back in the day (they were on Stax for the first two) and very few records were printed in the first place (i think 5K or so for the first, maybe 20K or so for the second).

One trip through Tennessee didn't turn up a Big Star record, but I'll be there again this summer. What I really want is the Chris Bell solo record, if anything for being called I Am The Cosmos. What I love about the Cargoe record is the flashes of a southern feel underneath the power pop. I assumed that had more to do with Terry Manning though, I'm hoping Big Star have that too.

O man the beginning this thread. lol Old ILX. Ethan, such a worthless critic.

aside from a 45, Chris Bell had no solo vinyl.

Oh it's a collection of demos and stuff.

It is, but it wasn't issued until 1992 and only on CD not vinyl

That one 45 though, I Am The Cosmos b/w You And Your Sister is spectacular. Perhaps even a bigger vinyl score than the first two Big Star albums.

For some reason I assume it was a actual release, on pair with Dennis Wilson's solo record.

i am the cosmos (the collection) has had at least one vinyl reissue

Wasn't aware of that. I see there's also a new "deluxe edition" 2-CD Chris Bell set out with alternate versions on the second disc, including a later version of "Get Away" with Chilton on guitar.

yeah they put out i am the cosmos on vinyl around the time of that deluxe edition iirc. not the sort of thing i'd expect to find for cheap though!

"I Am the Cosmos" is not the touchstone that so many would indicate. I appreciate the sentiment, but it's not as engaging as anything Big Star or This Mortal Coil haven't released.

the posies' cover introduced me to this song, and it's still my favourite tbh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAsubglfwGQ

Vinyl reissues of all the Big Star stuff are very very available.
Originals, not so much.

i know someone (maybe on this thread) was repping hard for how great the recent third vinyl reissue on 4 men w/ beards is. haven't herad it though!

yeah, it's wonderful. both sound & sequencing couldn't be better.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kBm_XvpaRvU/Tzb-cgsZldI/AAAAAAAAAco/XEd4CQXtbIQ/s1600/x.JPG
kind of wish i could read this!

H-bombs?

i don't think i've heard them, but i believe that's Peter Holsapple's band?

that's awesome. where'd you find it, tylerw?

"Like Flies on Sherbet" is a hilarious/awesome record fwiw

many xposts

"my rival... I'm gonna stab him on arrival" = classic

http://whatanicewaytoturn17.blogspot.com/ - this site has a bunch of fun chilton-y stuff.

in some ways it's the next logical step from Third - the performances and arrangements become even more unhinged/sloppy/off-kilter but the nihilism and sentimentality are replaced with lust, sneering cynicism, and reckless abandon

xp

Is that a Pete Frame tree? My copy of the omnibus edition of RFT vol 1 & 2 doesn't have that one.

xp, aha, "Pete Frame-style"

yes, it's not his handwritng

"Cut my gut, stab me in a alley. Call me a slut in front of your family..." also = classic.

"As soon as I go out/ Forget what I’m about"

Stroke It Noel is the greatest, most joyous song ever recorded by anyone ever, anywhere, ever, in the world.

Big Star’s Third Landmark Album to be Performed At SXSW 2012

GSD&M Presents An All-Star Collective Including Jody Stephens of Big Star, Mike Mills and Peter Buck of R.E.M., Chris Stamey of the dBs and More

Evening To Include Screening of Big Star Documentary Nothing Can Hurt Me

Thursday, March 15 at Austin’s Paramount Theater

"…a Rosetta stone for a whole generation" Peter Buck

In a night that will combine the best of SXSW 2012 Film and Music, an all-star group of musicians will gather at Austin’s historic Paramount Theatre on Thursday, March 15th to celebrate the Big Star legacy through a complete performance of the band’s seminal Third album. This highly anticipated event comes two years after the untimely death of legendary Big Star singer/songwriter Alex Chilton and a hastily organized tribute show that became an emotional and musical highlight of SXSW 2010.

Prior to the musical performance the SXSW Film Festival will host the debut screening of the feature-length documentary Big Star: Nothing Can Hurt Me (Work-in-Progress), also at the Paramount Theatre. The film is a portrait of talented musicians who never got traction within the confines of the music industry but went on to craft three albums now recognized as pop masterpieces and influenced countless musicians including R.E.M., the Replacements, Wilco, Teenage Fanclub, Ryan Adams and many more.

As with previous live performances of the album in New York City and North Carolina which drew enthusiastic crowds and critical acclaim, the SXSW show will consist ofa core of top-tier musicians who will perform the album in its entirety including Jody Stephens of Big Star on drums; Mike Mills of R.E.M. on bass; Mitch Easter of Let’s Active and Chris Stamey on guitars; Charles Cleaver on piano; and for this performance, guest guitarists Peter Buck of R.E.M. and Jon Auer and Ken Stringfellow of the Posies, as well as a wide range of guest vocalists who are still signing on for the evening. Austin's own Tosca String Quartet, along with guest brass and wind musicians including Memphis's Jim Spake, will perform the original orchestrations from the album. Austin’s GSD&M is the show’s executive producer in conjunction with SXSW and High Road Touring.

The event is open to SXSW Film, Music, Gold and Platinum Badge holders, as well as SXSW Film Passes and Music Wristbands. For those without Badges, Passes or Wristbands, a limited number of advance single tickets are available for $25 via the Paramount website (austintheatre.org/film). Advance Ticket sales will end at midnight the day before the screening. Advance Ticket purchases do not guarantee reserved seating or entry to the theatre. Badge holders receive priority entry, followed by Film Passes and Music Wristbands. Once Badges, Passes and Wristbands have entered, Advance Tickets will gain entry, and then as capacity allows, day-of-show single tickets, which m ay be purchased for $25 at the Paramount Theatre box office approximately 15 minutes prior to the screening. For those who wish to attend the performance only, $25 tickets will be sold starting at 8:45pm if seats are available. Advance Ticket holders for are still advised to arrive to the theatre at least 30 minutes prior to the screening time. In the event that a screening reaches capacity before an advance ticket purchaser can be admitted to the theatre, the purchase price will be refunded at the Paramount Box Office (refund valid only within 20 minutes of screening start time).

There were brilliant moments in the studio,” said Big Star drummer Jody Stephens. “Performing this album after all those years, with these talented people, brings the songs to life in a way that is pure joy.” One of Rolling Stone magazine’s Top 500 albums of all time, Big Star’s Third/Sister Lovers, has long been revered by artists and critics as one of the most influential albums ever produced. "There's something about this record that connects with my generation, and apparently many generations" said Chris Stamey, musical director for the show and member of 1980s power pop group the dBs. “With this performance we hope to breathe life into a bittersweet album that ha s come to mean so much to so many musicians and fans.”

A signed commemorative poster will be available at the show with proceeds benefitting the New Orleans Musicians’ Clinic. Donations to this worthy organization are encouraged. Further information is available at NewOrleansMusiciansClinic.org.

Please note absolutely no filming will be permitted inside the Paramount Theatre. Still photography with flash must be limited to the first three songs, and subsequently only permitted without flash.

when Auer/Stringfellow weren't mentioned in the headline i was gonna cry foul but ok they're in there

still kind of funny to see two guys who've been in the band for 20 years now billed as 'guest guitarists'

Hey! Has anyone got a recording or a link to the WLYX broadcast from 1975, sometimes bootlegged as Beale Street Breakdown, and sometimes credited to Sister Lovers? Looking for it for work purposes. Thank you kindly.

I bet Tyler does ... here:

http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/187210978/dusted-in-memphis-in-honor-of-yet-another

Or maybe here:

http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/4839487456/beale-street-green-breakdown-even-though-the

Yeah, I checked Tyler's blog - but both those links are expired.

i have the files on my hard drive and could prob send them to you pretty easily - you on yr work email today?

I am: thanks ever so much Stevie. Much appreciated. Robert Gordon suggested I hear them for an insight into AC live round Sister Lovers time.
As public thanks, here's this amazing live performance of Holocaust, with a band made up Chris Stamey and Will Rigby, from 1978:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UxXNDU9XSY

& speaking of chilton w/ the dbs, these shows are highly recommended: http://dbs-repercussion.blogspot.com/2012/03/alex-chilton-rip-live-1977-feat-chris.html

Thanks Tyler. Gold.

i'll try to reup the beale street green/breakdown discs sometime soon too.

Just quickly browsing through those shows and they are AMAZING. Not always in a good way, but a great sense of where Chilton was at that point.

version of "Take Me Home And Make Me Like It" is really pretty amazing on there.

yeah -- nyc show is pretty together, philly show goes off the rails. in an entertaining way!

Hi -- Message me if you're interested -- have a spare ticket for the Big Star Third concert at the Barbican tonight. Think they're £25 ish. You'd have to sit next to me though :/

GOOD GRIEF TERRIBLE SHOW

No one said yes, but GOOD MOVE

ha, really? what was so bad about it?

Ach, just way too "tasteful". I love Third - hearing the songs live made me bawl - but it was so bloodless. Made me realise what an underrated vocalist Alex was. Jody looked AMAZING though.

Sole redeeming moment was Robyn Hitchcock turning up to do "Downs" and dedicating the song to Tom Hibbert.

It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great.

Those songs just don't lend themselves to that treatment – on the record they are tearing the songs are being pulled apart from the inside. On stage, with revolving musicians, they necessarily have to be anchored. That meant that too much of it plodded, as a result of imposed order. The slow ones were miles better than the rockers.

John Bramwell opened with Nature Boy, then obviously just went and got pissed. He all but missed his cue for Thank You Friends, running back to the stage late, and through the second half he was sitting behind me, chuntering on at conversational volume through the show. Twat.

Although, arguably that's totally in the spirit of Third!

ha, yeah, that sounds about right.
they should open the shows with "whole lotta shakin'".

gotta say, this looks pretty fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUr6Gz29PK4

Can anyone provide a basic guide to the chords of 'I am the Cosmos?' I can tell it's capo-ed. Is the first chord just a straight up D-formation? Can't really tell with all the layering and phasing.

http://www.bigstarreference.com/tabs/cosmos/cosmostab.html

http://www.docnyc.net/film/big-star-nothing-can-hurt-me/#.UJhIg1H4Ia6

my friend co-produced this, go see it

That looks amazing.

want

there are only 2 events on that showings calendar! :(

looks great

would love to see this

Won best doc at Indie Memphis film festival.

will try if i'm feelin OK.

Saw it at the London Film Fest (& contributed to the Kickstarter). Fantastic.

playing again IFC Center Thursday 7:30. Can't make it, but y'all should go.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdleti7Zws1qm0waao1_400.jpg
the butts band!

and ed begley jr.!

Don't forget the two one-hit wonders appearing in the coming weeks.

i had to look up chi coltrane, i thought maybe it was like john coltrane's younger brother or something
http://www.bibleetnombres.online.fr/image11/chi_coltrane1.jpg

Was Ed Begley Jr. doing music or stand-up or what?

He was the drummer in the Thamesmen.

RIP

Didn't realize the documentary would be playing here next week until my friend alerted me. (Not having read this thread closely enough, didn't even know it existed.) Anyway, got a ticket and looking forward to it.

so want to see that

anyone know a good way to track a movie to see when it will come to a certain city? something akin to songkick for films, I guess.

They've got a site with a calendar--this may help.

http://www.bigstarstory.com/events.html

The documentary's really great. I think it'll get great reviews, win awards, be a big deal.

The director must have gotten some grief over the Replacements movie, because this time the music's front and center. (I'm going to henceforth view that film as a practice run, a chance to learn about how to interview people.) Lots of time given to specific songs--"September Gurls," "I Am the Cosmos," others. The film really honors Chris Bell's part in the story; it's almost as much a film about him as it is about Chilton. As I've said before, I've never been a Big Star worshipper--I have their albums, love a few songs, but couldn't name more than six or seven. I will spend some time with them now, and listen closer.

Two great comic-relief detours: the inaugural (and last--geez, it was such a good idea) Rock Writers Convention in 1973--I think you see Mike Saunders and his Oscar Gamble-size afro flash by--and the brief section on the Cramps. Lots of good interview footage with Billy Altman, whom I'd never seen before. One surprising omission: Christgau, who was probably the band's highest-profile supporter. I've seen lots of Christgau, so I didn't mind. (Maybe he disliked the Replacements movie so much that he declined this time.)

is there any good footage, clemenza? I can sorta imagine/recall from the bio that there could be some that eggleston shot

That's probably the best stuff: a documentary Eggleston (I'd never heard of him before) made in '74 about local crazies. There's not a whole lot of Big Star footage, but there are some great clips from when Chilton was bouncing around in the late '70s and early '80s. There's one photograph of Chilton's girlfriend during those days--very beautiful.

Eggleston doc = "Stranded in Canton" and i believe it's still up on youtube in its entirety.

Will be checking that out thanks.

There's a brief shot of Robert Fricke with his arm around Jody Stephens, which has no need to be included

Robert Fricke, the five-star dentist in Los Altos, California? Honestly, not sure who that is.

Stranded in Canton, that's it--thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1eDzz5fKio&wide=1

looks like there's a soundtrack to the doc coming out too, with "21 unissued tracks"... which seems a little bit astounding, considering that box set was packed with unissued stuff. can't imagine there'll be anything totally amazing, but, i guess i want to hear it!

http://floweringtoilet.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/record-store-day-2013-big-star-nothing.html

ah ok -- alternate mixes, "movie mixes"! pretty much what i figured.

Did any of the other (ie, not what ended up on Radio City) Dolby Fuckers stuff get a legit release? Or were those tapes erased?

Big Star's Third: An Orchestrated Live Performance of the Legendary Album
Featuring Mike Mills, Jody Stephens, Sharon Van Etten, Kurt Vile, Pete Yorn, Marshall Crenshaw, Pete Yorn, Reeve Carney and many more
Sunday, June 30, 2013
Central Park, MN
7:00 PM – 10:00PM -- FREE EVENT - Arrive Early for guaranteed admission
Artist Website: http://bigstarthird.com/

Big Star's Third is a full performance of the iconic album by an astonishing who's who of rock music featuring famed vocalists including Sharon Van Etten, Kurt Vile, Marshall Crenshaw, Pete Yorn, Reeve Carney (Spiderman: Turn Off The Dark), Jonathan Carney (Mercury Rev) and Beck Stark (Lavender Diamond), supported by an all-star band including Mike Mills (R.E.M.) on bass; Mitch Easter (Lets Active) and Chris Stamey (The dB's) and Ken Stringfellow (The Posies, Big Star) on guitar; Charles Cleaver on keys; Django Haskins (of The Old Ceremony), Brett Harris and Skylar Gudasz on harmony and guitar; and original Big Star member Jody Stephens on drums, all backed with a twenty- piece chamber orchestra including the famed cellist Jane Scarpantoni. In addition, the concert will feature a selection of earlier songs, including the much-hailed “September Gurls” and “In The Streets” (which was used as the theme of the popular TV sitcom “That ‘70s Show, performed by Cheap Trick).

pete yorn and...pete yorn!

i remember admitting to my high school crush that i liked the pete yorn song that was on the radio at the time. things did not go well.

good catch on Pete Yorn, I'll ask them to fix that action.

pete yorn...you OWE me now!

!!!

Reeve Carney (Spiderman: Turn Off The Dark)

!!!

Today was the 20th anniversary of their first show back together, live in the Hearnes Center parking lot at the University of Missouri.

i mean, thank you, friends!

so...we've never polled "third"?

don't worry, it's "holocaust"

"nighttime" imho

obviously kangaroo

Liked the documentary, review forthcoming. Lack of archival footage (most seemed silent home movies with contemporaneous audio accompanying) sort of used as a strength, as with both Bell and Chilton gone it winds up being more about the fans and associates, and the afterlife of the band (entire second half).

Might go to the Central park thing but I have Hitchcock restoration (not Robyn, who appears briefly in doc) to attend.

also one interviewee seemed to imply Bell was gay/bi without getting any more explicit.

Does the soundtrack really have any crucial alt takes? I figure the box set took care of those.

the gay/bi thing has been rumored for years

huh surprised they didn't go into that a little more -- thought it was generally accepted that Bell was gay (but stayed mainly in the closet due to his Christianity). not sure if i can back it up, but i always got the feeling "you and your sister" was sort of about this?

i want to hear the sdtk, but am sort of annoyed that it exists -- seems like they're inventing "rarities" for the most part ("movie mixes" etc).

had no idea Chilton did b/g voc on "I Am the Cosmos" either

oh man 'you and your sister' is the best

yeah it's bell's finest moment imo. devastating.

Will Rigby w/a 1978 story:

On a little portable cassette machine Alex played us "I Am the Cosmos" for the first time. And told us some things about Chris Bell, Big Star, Ardent, and the whole scene that we probably didn't need to know: that John Fry, the owner of the studio and label, was gay, and so was Chris, and that Chris got jealous that John got interested in Alex (and that this was the reason that Chris erased the master tapes of #1 Record); or that Alex was better at tennis than Chris, who could never beat him no matter how hard he tried. I know Alex to be an enthusiastic embellisher of the truth, but when "You Can't Have Me" appeared on the belated release of the third Big Star album later that year I recognized what/who it must be about, and I still can't hear it without thinking about all this.

http://boogiewoogieflu.blogspot.com/2008/03/paper-hat.html

Fry is interviewed in the film, but not on this subject.

Alex was better at tennis than Chris, who could never beat him no matter how hard he tried

lol this casts "Tennis Bum" in a new light

also one interviewee seemed to imply Bell was gay/bi without getting any more explicit.

I read talk on another forum that Bell's family supposedly requested/insisted this not be covered in the film.

that woulda been my guess, actually

I worked for/with John Fry at Ardent, and for all the rumors that were spread around that office, him being gay never made the rounds that I recall. Not that some people didn't find him peculiar in an unspecified way. He was married when I knew him, which I realize doesn't mean much.

How someone can crush on anyone other than Jody Stephens, I have no idea.

haha yeah he was definitely the pretty one

without a doubt
they're all pretty cute though!

yes i did just pop in here to say that

also i saw the trailer and was dubious because i need no convincing about the greatness of this band and it seemed to just be people telling me things i already knew

but now dr m is making it sound a little more appealing

yeah I totally want to see it, even though I'm a little wary of it being mostly "CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT NO ONE LIKED BIG STAR IN THE 70S WHAT A TRAGEDY THEY WERE SO GOOD"

well having Stax declare bankruptcy when Radio City was getting ready to ship didn't help

also one interviewee seemed to imply Bell was gay/bi without getting any more explicit.

I read talk on another forum that Bell's family supposedly requested/insisted this not be covered in the film.

This was absent from the liner notes to the box set as well.

A couple of things that got me into the band were big articles that ran in Mojo (1999) and the original Revolver (2000). IIRC, in the latter there's a great quote from an insider (either Fry or Jim Dickinson) about Bell's problems with going Born Again: "He realized believing wasn't going make him stop wanting to take drugs or stop being a homosexual."

lol this casts "Tennis Bum" in a new light

I love that song!

Everybody I know who has seen the movie says it is so much more than "OMG, people missed out!" Total tearjerker.

The "Chris Bell was gay" rumor makes the rounds all the time, based afaict on absolutely nothing but non-specific third-hand stuff, or only Will Rigby exclusively. Which gives it the weight of air, even if true. Reminds me of the same stuff re: the equally long dead sensitive soul Nick Drake. From the "Fruit Tree" (fruit!!!) box set liners:

"His sensitivity became a shield. His friends sometimes wondered if he was a repressed homosexual. That would have explained his sense of defeat at age 18, his intense need for privacy, his denial of the body, his inability to touch people, his idealized view of women and his failure to have a girlfriend. But if he was homosexual he was far from gay. He was so deeply repressed that he could not imgine a physical salvation.Too private to talk about his moods, Nick wrote songs that mapped his melancholy with precision. Singing to an audience, he could communicate."

Pretty sure Chilton makes some sneery homophobic remark about Chris Bell in that KUT radio broadcast - after Bell was dead, classy huh?

In fact it was "Chris was a homosexual. That's why we had to break up."

A friend worked with A.C. right after his move to NYC, not impressed w/ him as a human.

xp yeah, uncomfortable moment -- though that whole interview is alex trolling, I think. not that it excuses it...

You can totally see why Alex Chilton would be a hero to Westerberg. A real tell me to jump, I'll sit down guy. AC as a human ... I can only assume the guy had massive issues - mental, chemical, social. Good days, bad days.

I saw him play some time ago, and when someone requested a Big Star song, he played Michael Jackson's "Rock With You." In fact, I want to say he played it twice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaycAs2Jr3A

ha, i like that
A real tell me to jump, I'll sit down guy
yeah, a friend saw him on both the box tops and big star reunions and said chilton seemed like the friendliest, most fun guy at the box tops show (where the crowd was about as unhip as you can get) and bored/unpleasant at the big star show.