But I've become compelled by the idea of experimental hip hop. I expect that a surge of really experimental rap would cause a backlash worse than the anti-prog backlash of the late seventies, but I really can care less about purity aesthetics. I just want to hear something new or innovative in the genre. I feel the genre is being held back by conservatism within the movement. This can change.
Some examples:
1. Extended songs, with long organic instrumental sections and lyrics focused on the abstract or taken from already existing source material (say a book of nineteenth or twentieth century poetry) . Or even emphasis on melodic lines, provided by sample or live musician.
2. Groups that sample 20th century avant garde music, anything from 12 tone, concrete, free jazz, proto-industrial, kraut, whatever, rather than from traditional jazz, rock, or p-funk. Even projects using extensive found sounds would be cool.
3. Unusal or experimental vocal intonation and phrasing. Or vocal lines processed electronically with more than just a vocoder.
4. Hip hop with heavy use of non-western influences and sounds (African, Indian, Asian) or peripheral western sounds. And not just a programmed beep vaguely rooted in a non-western scale.
So, are there any outfits or artists you can point me to?
James
― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:36 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:39 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:40 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:40 (twenty years ago) link
Crosspost.
― Colin Beckett (Colin Beckett), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:40 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:43 (twenty years ago) link
― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:44 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:45 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:45 (twenty years ago) link
― nate detritus (natedetritus), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:46 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:46 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:47 (twenty years ago) link
― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:48 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:49 (twenty years ago) link
― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:50 (twenty years ago) link
(just weird hip-hop)(nothing mentioned about not wanting to shake his rump neither)(I mean you can fuckin' dance to Hawkwind)
― nate detritus (natedetritus), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:51 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:51 (twenty years ago) link
― geeta (geeta), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:51 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:51 (twenty years ago) link
― jed (jed_e_3), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:51 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 03:52 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:53 (twenty years ago) link
― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:54 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:54 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:54 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 03:54 (twenty years ago) link
― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:55 (twenty years ago) link
Because instruments are white!
Oh wait...
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:55 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:56 (twenty years ago) link
― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:56 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:56 (twenty years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:57 (twenty years ago) link
That's not even clever...where's that sense of humor?
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 03:57 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:58 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 03:58 (twenty years ago) link
other than that i dunno
stockhausen wd be a horrible mc (though funny admittedly)
― geeta (geeta), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:59 (twenty years ago) link
― D Aziz (esquire1983), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:04 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:05 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 04:06 (twenty years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:09 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:10 (twenty years ago) link
― nate detritus (natedetritus), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:10 (twenty years ago) link
This was Rush's argument too. And Genesis. And Yes.
LeRoi Jones - Blue People
Read it motherfuckers.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 04:11 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:11 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:11 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:12 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:14 (twenty years ago) link
And Anthony Braxton, Cornel West, Toni Morrison, and a bunch of other people too.
― o. nate (onate), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:14 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:14 (twenty years ago) link
*cue ddrake: 'Ha ha, where is your sense of humor, dork, etc.'*
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:17 (twenty years ago) link
Seriously Ned, read Blues People.To quote big lebowski.
"You're out of yr element donnie."
Bam.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 04:19 (twenty years ago) link
James who started the thread - have you heard Kid Koala, or Peanut Butter Wolf's My Vinyl Weighs a Ton?
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:19 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:19 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 04:20 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:20 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:21 (twenty years ago) link
and while you're at it don't miss Mr. Baraka's insightful, inspiring poem about the WTC disaster
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:22 (twenty years ago) link
Is the so called "progressive" really all that progressive?
And yet, Blues People is a more incredible work than anything anyone on ILM has accomplished...a more important work as well. That I can't believe more of you haven't read.Baraka Rock-a's.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 04:25 (twenty years ago) link
ddrake exposes his secret rockist heart non-shockah!
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:28 (twenty years ago) link
I'm not gonna get much support here from the ILM regs, even if some of them agree with me, so I'ma bounce and get some homework done.Gimme a book report on Blues People, Ned. Word.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 04:31 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:32 (twenty years ago) link
And yet, The Decameron is a more complex work than Jones/Baraka has produced...wft is your point? If people can't write masterpieces, they shouldn't say anything? Not that I'm conceding Blues People (which I have read, ages ago, thanks so much) is a masterpiece, just wondering if it's your opinion that only the authors of masterpieces should talk.
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:33 (twenty years ago) link
If you've read it, you clearly haven't comprehended it.
And yet, The Decameron is a more complex work than Jones/Baraka has produced...wft is your point? If people can't write masterpieces, they shouldn't say anything? Not that I'm conceding Blues People (which I have read, ages ago, thanks so much) is a masterpiece, just wondering if it's your opinion that only the authors of masterpieces should talk
And how does an article about the WTC relate to anything we're talking about in this thread? You were using it to discredit his OTHER book, which I believe has relevence in this conversation.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 04:35 (twenty years ago) link
John, this is the same person who thinks he needs to know everything and anything about a genre before commenting on it properly and yet is more than happy to accuse you of knowing nothing about something if you happen to have general conclusions that don't match with his own. And yes, that includes assuming you haven't read something he has, because obviously only he knows about it and is more than happy to tell you at high volume if necessary. If arguing with Geir is like punching Jello, arguing with ddrake is like punching stinky Jello that complains about your sense of humor as well and then gets bitter and hides.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:36 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:37 (twenty years ago) link
This is not good proof of your omniscience.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:37 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:38 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:39 (twenty years ago) link
Nihilist Pop Star I dunno if that was for one, some or all of us on this thread which showed ilx at its worst, refusing to give a straight answer to somebody whose question was a fine, honest question, but either way, that's one awesome picture
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:39 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:40 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:40 (twenty years ago) link
Ned is clearly someone who thinks he comprehends what I am saying without actually listening to what I am saying. "Cultural Context" = "Knowing everything about a genre"?"high volume"? We're on a message board. Congratulations, you have better hearing than I.Personal attack, comparison to the village idiot, hilarious.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 04:41 (twenty years ago) link
What a "rockist" perspective of literature! R Kelly is a pedophile, therefore I no longer can listen to the Ignition Remix.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 04:43 (twenty years ago) link
HAHAHA! You picked the wrong example there! But John can do the honors.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:43 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:44 (twenty years ago) link
Your relevence to this thread's discussion is nonexistent.Its like 5th grade again! Gang up on me and take my lunch money, please.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 04:44 (twenty years ago) link
again, not sure those really answer the question per se but are worth checking out. the only example of #1 i can think of at the moment is the roots, "water" off phrenology, which i think is consciously an evocation of prog in a hip hop context.
#2 i don't know of any off the top of my head but i would love to hear this attempted. why not?
#4 try digging into non-western hip hop, you're certain to hear some more unusual flows that way.
― rgeary (rgeary), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:45 (twenty years ago) link
Fine, but that's a very arguable position - not one you can "Bam!" as though revealing the Truth From On High. I'd argue that context limits the capacity for insight, and a fair number of people who think about reading/interpretation would tend to agree.
Ned I'm assuming he read the Ignition thread, but to discredit the example: if Kelly wrote songs that were as wretched as his behavior, that'd be different. When a writer adds something wretched to his body of work, it's fair to reevaluate that entire body of work and individual texts within it. Bam!
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:45 (twenty years ago) link
cue Momus's entrance
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:46 (twenty years ago) link
And for today, class, the word to spell correctly is 'relevance.'
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:46 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:46 (twenty years ago) link
― rob geary (rgeary), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:47 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:48 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:49 (twenty years ago) link
Now please, say something relevant or shut up. :-)
― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:49 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:49 (twenty years ago) link
So why when I argue this position am I met with comparisons to this Geir fellow? Who I felt like disembowling the moment I read his posts, incidently.
I didn't see that thread, but while I see yr point, I don't think that this is the case here. While Baraka may have become senile in his old age, and Blues People is not an airtight argument per se, it is one that deserves fair treatment. Judge it in the context of the WTC writing if you must, but keep in mind - different time, place, and completely different issue.I can't think of a musical example to compare it to, but let me put it this way: No matter how offensive this poem may be, it doesn't change the continued relevence of the work he has done in the past.
ie. if you got something to say fukker say it cuz you ain't said shit yet The irony!
Yeah, this board needs an edit button. Blow me.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 04:49 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:51 (twenty years ago) link
You have discovered the joy that is ddrake! Revel in his love for you, for without someone to demonize, he would not exist.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:51 (twenty years ago) link
Precisely.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:52 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:52 (twenty years ago) link
― rob geary (rgeary), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:53 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:54 (twenty years ago) link
― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:54 (twenty years ago) link
Because ddrake said so. (So okay, maybe entirely taking it back to him all the time isn't the best approach, but he likes the attention.)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:55 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:56 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:56 (twenty years ago) link
Ooh, an actual argument.
"academic posturing..." as if I've learned this in college. No, its impossible that these are my OWN ideas and from experience, I have come to these conclusions? Please, my black history professor freshman year was on tenure, I learned shit in that class. Ha.
Someone needs to ban the prefix "psuedo."Not bullshit. This is a serious argument I'm making, and I don't see why its necessary to belittle it with accusations of "psuedo-intellectualism." I wouldn't accuse INTENTIONAL race politics of coming into yr question, but rather culturally ingrained issues of race. I certainly wouldn't claim to be the all-knowledgeable god of hip hop, but man, discussing hip hop on ILM makes me want to hurl.
There's a difference between Sun Ra and Art Ensemble of Chicago and Anthony Braxton and Bill Evans (token white progressive dude) and ... Yes and Rush and Genesis. If you are looking for the Sun Ra/Art Ensemble/etc. artists, I'll tell you when I find some. Meanwhile, I'd like to point out that my initial comments were directed towards the assumed "progressivism" of using instrumental solos. How "trad" can you GET?! Frankly, yr number 4 I'd be very interested in seeing more of. Admittedly, my initial white comment was meant to provoke. It did. I am happy. yay!
Because ddrake said so.
It really is like being out on the playground again.Cinniblount has yet to say anything relevent.PS: didn't apply to OberlinPPS: Oberlin is a shitty schoolPPPS: You suck.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 04:57 (twenty years ago) link
dude, are you talking to me? Cause I wasn't arguing this at all.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 04:58 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:58 (twenty years ago) link
You deny that possibility for the rest of us...
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:59 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:59 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:59 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:59 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:00 (twenty years ago) link
So argue with me about it rather than personally insulting a talking head on the internet.
ddrake has yet to respond to what anyone actually said (as opposed to what he'd like to pretend they said)
What?!
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:00 (twenty years ago) link
Dude what the fuck are you talking about? Have you been paying attention to what I've said at all?
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:01 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:01 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:02 (twenty years ago) link
― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:02 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:02 (twenty years ago) link
Is this some sort of joke?
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:03 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:03 (twenty years ago) link
http://www.persil.co.uk/images/in/images2/ironing.jpg
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:03 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:04 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:04 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:05 (twenty years ago) link
1. My contention that "Extended songs, with long organic instrumental sections" were not in fact progressive and were in fact REgressive.
2. My intentionally provacative comment that this was a "white" perspective.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:05 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:06 (twenty years ago) link
The flagpoll! 12:05 AM EST!
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:07 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:07 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:08 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:08 (twenty years ago) link
I'll concede the poem to be "powerful," but I've always had a weakness for Baraka's style - this weakness is I suspect is in fact related to my tendency to say things like "oh, if he wrote that, then fuck 'im." It's here: http://www.amiribaraka.com/blew.html
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:09 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:09 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:09 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:10 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:10 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:10 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:11 (twenty years ago) link
Oh, you're not Geir, you're Doompatrol! Makes sense now.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:11 (twenty years ago) link
I should have just posted "Anticon" and run away.
damn.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:11 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:12 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:12 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:12 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:13 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:13 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:14 (twenty years ago) link
I'll leave the circus now. :-)
― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:15 (twenty years ago) link
(Oh, and, yes, God bless the Nihilist)
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:16 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:17 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:19 (twenty years ago) link
fuck you.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:20 (twenty years ago) link
Who wants to join my Friendster web?
― ben welsh (benwelsh), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:21 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:21 (twenty years ago) link
― were you serious? (benwelsh), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:28 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:36 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:39 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:39 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:40 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:41 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:42 (twenty years ago) link
Is Darnielle really saying that because of something Baraka said in 2001, we ought to discount his writings from the 60s?!
Is Blount really belittling someone for the school they attend? Is Ned really playing along with this?
Did Dom Passatino really go look up a poster's personal information on the internet, and then come back to the thread with it giggling like a little fucking schoolgirl?
Unbelievable.
― Broheems (diamond), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:42 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:43 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:43 (twenty years ago) link
My antipathy for ddrake has other sources, specifically here. Honestly, I know nothing of what Wooster's reputation is or isn't, though I am bemused at the hate it seems to engender.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:44 (twenty years ago) link
Although honestly I still can't figure out why dee drake dude thinks Blues People has much to do with this argument. It's a great book, but wtf?!? (altho to be even more honest I like Black Music better.)
There are many fine institutions of higher learning in Ohio.
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:44 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:45 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:46 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:46 (twenty years ago) link
An understatement.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:47 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:48 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:48 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:49 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:51 (twenty years ago) link
(nihilist=good tho)
― Sean M (Sean M), Monday, 17 November 2003 06:00 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 06:02 (twenty years ago) link
He's very proud of his 'provocations' and has said so before, and then complains when he gets trashed. For my part, that's not very comprehensible, except in an extremely negative way.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 06:04 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 06:05 (twenty years ago) link
I first got into hip-hop, or should i say hip-hop style beats via Meat Beat Manifesto, a band mostly considered "industrial", mainly because Wax Trax! was their US label for a small while when i discovered them. However, at the time, lower tempo breaks was a big part of their sound, and the way they laid it down just did it for me... anyway, without them I wouldn't have bothered trying out some of the hip-hop that was coming out at the time... (circa 1989, 1990, etc.),and frankly i wouldn't have gotten into hip-hop has much as I ever expected.
But being the college radio dork I was, I was always arguing with fellow DJs about things like "When is Hip Hop going to do 5/4 beats or start doing things to REALLY mix shit up like Meat Beat was back in 1989? Add some loud white noise.. or sample obscure Indian soundtracks or starting reversing the raps, or have asynchronous rapping, etc." Obviously, that's a rather embarrassing statement in retrospect, although a few of them have come true, sort of.
But the point is, these things "weren't happening" in hip-hop for me because i was just an eager college radio DJ really excited about various music styles, and just dreamed that someone out there would answer my prayers and perform the lab experiments i didn't have the resources or talent to do myself.
The reality is.. music gets, ahem, "taken to the next level" when no one's looking, and it's usually in a direction that no one, even eager fucking dorks like me, never expect. Gary Numan has much influence on early hip-hop as, say, Public Enemy has had on a lot of current rock music (for better or worse). I doubt any saw that. I doubt anyone could have forseen Timbaland.
So, it's NOT a bad idea to have dreams on how one would want to change a genre they like! And i hope no one is beating up on James for suggesting.. (though I can understand the wording was a little suspicious).
Things are being "held back" because people still like it the way it is, and it's selling. Until people get bored, then "the next level" may or may not happen.
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 06:10 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 06:11 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 06:13 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 06:13 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 06:14 (twenty years ago) link
― nate detritus (natedetritus), Monday, 17 November 2003 06:14 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 06:15 (twenty years ago) link
How the fuck do *I*, DONUT FUCKING BITCH, get to become the next Timbaland? Where did he come from, anyway? An alien race of peg leg pirates?
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 06:16 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 06:18 (twenty years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 November 2003 06:20 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 06:22 (twenty years ago) link
I feel this post shouldn't be lost among Nihilist's other posts in this thread.
fwiw-- I also agree with the one post way up at the top, on how some of those "progressive" elements James mentioned are contrary to what Hip-hop is fundamentally about. I'm not saying those are bad ideas or that experimentation in hip-hop shouldn't happen/isn't possible, blah, blah, blah. Just that there is a reason why Schoenberg/James Joyce isn't a larger influence on Hip-hop. At a certain point it wouldn't be recognizable as hip-hop. The emphasis on Rhyming/Back Beat/Samples etc, etc, that was also mentioned up top, would be dashed.
― LonelySpy, Monday, 17 November 2003 07:38 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 07:43 (twenty years ago) link
He's very proud of his 'provocations' and has said so before, and then complains when he gets trashed
So I deserve this bullying because my opinion is stated in a provocative way? Interesting.Rather than arguing the points I make, personal attacks and e-stalking is a lot better. Comparisons to other board members who are apparently held in disfavor, also very mature.
Man, this place is fucking cliquish. God forbid I disagree with the mighty AllMusic Guide reviewer. Congratulations on yr efame. I hope it makes you lots of efriends that you can ebully and estalk me with.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 07:49 (twenty years ago) link
Why? Do you have to listen to LIttle Richard and Chuck Berry before wanting to hear stuff that suits your personal tastes better?
― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 07:55 (twenty years ago) link
I don't really want to get started in this argument again, but my response to this would be that most people who become serious rock music fans start out - aside from childhood flirtations with pop - with "classic" rock, some sort of starting point in the rock genre from which they place their values - what aesthetics they value in music, and that this perspective is expanded over time. I'm not insisting that everyone listen to Kurtis Blow in order to "get" hip hop - and this is how I think Ned originally misunderstood me - but that everyone should understand - or try to understand - fully the hip hop AESTHETIC and value system before they can truly evaluate an artist.Ned took exception to my assumption that he had not done this, which I presumed from looking at his 'favorite albums' list. I can understand why he would be upset to a certain extent, because I AM presuming this knowledge without knowing his listening experience, but I was arguing that the list spoke for itself - it wasn't HIM that I was dissing, but the perspective that the list displayed, a value system that I would argue lacks perspective. He then followed that by saying that I lack the same perspective; i agreed. We ended on a sour note. Or something along those lines.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:03 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 08:12 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:15 (twenty years ago) link
Please ignore this post if it insights the fire in your belly.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:17 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:18 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:18 (twenty years ago) link
Damn skippy.
can you give us a precis? or a few pointers? describe what it is from your pov? or is this gonna stay at some meta level?
― gaz (gaz), Monday, 17 November 2003 08:22 (twenty years ago) link
I am afraid I am leaving myself dangling here so I'm going to explain what I mean a little better: The assumption is often that "whitening" of the music is inherently "progressive," and I was suggesting that this is not so. Note that whitening does not neccessarily have to do with the skin color of the musician - for instance, Dave Matthews Band minus Dave Matthews recording a hip hop album would still be creating a hip hop album with a rock aesthetic and therefore it would be REgressive rather than PROgressive. So "whitening" in the case in which I am using it refers to the values inherent in the musicians' musical ideas. White CULTURE rather than white PEOPLE.
While my musical values come from a more hip hopist perspective simply because that is what I surrounded myself with as a kid, and then growing up, (jazz also), perhaps I have a different perspective than a lot of people here. I don't want to act like I'm some hip hop scholar or something though here to educate the masses, because I'm not at all. Forreal, the best way to do it is explore it yrself, read about the artists, etc. Even if you don't listen to ALL the artists from the early 80s, understanding WHY the music was created - for example, that hip hop is based on deconstruction and reconstruction of older song forms, repetition, percussive drive, James Brown style drumming, the fact that it was initially made as dance music...all stuff that is important to know....a "hip hopist" would say that a rapper using a live band is NOT "real hip hop"; I disagree. But I think a lot of the time rock critics would use use of rock instrumentation or values as a "maturation" of hip hop - (thus the vaunted position of the Roots on critics polls) rather than seeing sample-based music as its own legitimate musical aesthetic.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:28 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:30 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:33 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:36 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:38 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:39 (twenty years ago) link
"The assumption"? from whom?
James.You are asking for whiter hip hop.Admit it.
I think hip hop has been asking for whiter hip hop since it was born. I love that footage of Afrika Bambaata raving about Gary Numan and him DJing it back in the day. Kraftwerk anyone?
(You know, white guys like Numan and Hutter And Schneider who use "instruments")
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 08:42 (twenty years ago) link
Different from the race of the artist. Bambaataa created music in the hip hop aesthetic, which of course overlaps rock music in a good 50% of its values.
Know what's a great song?
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:44 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 08:46 (twenty years ago) link
PS: Seriously, check out World Destruction.R-R-R-Reagan.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:47 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:51 (twenty years ago) link
Ah, so "white-ification" = "long instrumental solos"... like Jimi Hendrix, or almost all of jazz.
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 08:52 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:56 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:56 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:57 (twenty years ago) link
This whole over-analyzing and adjective-laden term assignment about the AESTHETIC of hip hop is just really boggling. I'm very eager about the history of hip-hop, as it is VERY fascinating, but discussing this any further at this point is like arguing over what "punk" means, as opposed to just talking about the "roots" of punk or whatever.
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 08:59 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 09:03 (twenty years ago) link
Although I hope we never have a Paul Simon/ Peter Gabriel of hip hop.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 09:05 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 09:07 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 09:07 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 09:16 (twenty years ago) link
― gaz (gaz), Monday, 17 November 2003 09:44 (twenty years ago) link
Though it's funny that ddrake considers this track "bridging" the hip-hop aesthetic, as I thought it was just Bill Laswell wanking over large glam rock beats with two guys shouting awkwardly over it.
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 09:50 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Monday, 17 November 2003 09:53 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 09:54 (twenty years ago) link
― gaz (gaz), Monday, 17 November 2003 09:55 (twenty years ago) link
― gaz (gaz), Monday, 17 November 2003 09:58 (twenty years ago) link
as far as hip hop threads go, some have turned the discarded Mind/Body split into pure Body -- as if that is what Hip Hop is supposed to be, though it never has been from the very beginning. The fascism of the Rump is as smothering as the fascism of the Mind.
― jack cole (jackcole), Monday, 17 November 2003 10:00 (twenty years ago) link
I think the original poster got so much heat because he seemed to have this misconception about what rap is, and then he suggested it should be made more "progressive" by elements, which are either not progressive or already exist in rap. So, before you criticize rap for being "not progressive", you should listen to it a bit more.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 17 November 2003 11:06 (twenty years ago) link
Uh, Wyclef Jean?
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 17 November 2003 11:16 (twenty years ago) link
The next NWW project, which Stapleton is working on at the moment, is going to be a hip-hop album. It will also feature a very talented female rapper.
Film at eleven.
― Herbstmute (Wintermute), Monday, 17 November 2003 11:17 (twenty years ago) link
― Jason J, Monday, 17 November 2003 11:47 (twenty years ago) link
stence where do you think I live? this his puzzling the hell out of me
what I said:
it's foul enough to make you reexamine anything you might've thought about his previous work
I'd stand by that, and don't think it's actually that reactionary a position from a critical standpoint
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:44 (twenty years ago) link
Lyrics Born. If you're not J3ss H4rv3ll, you may likey a lot. He's very chameleonic and unprecedented. And funky as fuck.
MODERN HIP-HOP RADIO TO THREAD
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:05 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:06 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:10 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:20 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:31 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:35 (twenty years ago) link
― darko donnington (blueski), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:56 (twenty years ago) link
― gifto of gabbington (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:03 (twenty years ago) link
― NA (Nick A.), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:14 (twenty years ago) link
Unrap: a collection of hip hop cuts from the left
Lewis Parker 'Shadow Of Autumn'Earthling 'Nefisa'Anti-Pop Consortium 'Ghost Lawns'Optical 'Reckless Dub'Funkstorung 'Grammy Winners'DJ Shadow 'Midnight In A Perfect World (GAB mix)'MC Solaar 'Le Concubline De Hemogbline'
what else?
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:17 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:18 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:19 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward, Monday, 17 November 2003 15:24 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward, Monday, 17 November 2003 15:26 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:28 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward, Monday, 17 November 2003 15:29 (twenty years ago) link
what are you getting at fiddo?
― darko donnington (blueski), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:48 (twenty years ago) link
― Melissa W (Melissa W), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:55 (twenty years ago) link
MadLib
― Chris B. Sure (Chris V), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:58 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 16:23 (twenty years ago) link
Dude, shut the fuck up."giving it a bad name," what the fuck are you, 12?And I never claimed that I KNEW he hadn't heard world destruction! For fuck's sake, you guys can be assholes. I asked him if he heard it, he ignored my question, so I assumed that meant he hadn't.What the fuck does it take to NOT get treated like shit around here and still disagree with someone!?
Which is what I was saying the entire fucking time.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 16:33 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 16:38 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 16:42 (twenty years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Monday, 17 November 2003 16:46 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 16:47 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 16:47 (twenty years ago) link
How exactly was I being immature?Looking up people's personal information on the internet? Oh wait, that was someone else.Personal insults? Nope, someone else again.Comparisons to other board members held in less esteem?Nope, that would be other people too.
An attempt to have a frank discussion about music? How "immature" of me.Did you even READ this thread, "nickalicious"? Maybe you'll pay attention if I use yr email address to track down yr personal information.
to o. nate - who said I was trying to stop him? as I said before - "he can listen to whatever he damn well pleases."
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 16:48 (twenty years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 November 2003 16:49 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 16:49 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 16:50 (twenty years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 November 2003 16:50 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 16:56 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 16:58 (twenty years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Monday, 17 November 2003 17:01 (twenty years ago) link
Sadly, because life is deeply unfair, I have no interest or desire in going back and singling out everyone on the thread who was acting the ass, so you'll have to settle for the following:
ATTENTION ILM PLEASE EAT A GIGANTIC DISEASED DICK OK THX
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 November 2003 17:02 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 17:04 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 17:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 17 November 2003 17:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 17 November 2003 17:15 (twenty years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Monday, 17 November 2003 17:17 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 18:29 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 18:30 (twenty years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 November 2003 18:39 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 18:42 (twenty years ago) link
J0hn I'm surprised you aren't giving Baraka the benefit of the doubt, y'know, poetic license and all. And the "one state westward" stuff was about how your position is exactly that of the Democratic governor of New Jersey, James McGreevey, who eliminated the New Jersey Poet Laureate position because Baraka wouldn't resign - somebody said "at least he's not Rick Santorum," who is of course one state westward in Pennsylvania.
Read more about it from Baraka's p.o.v. if you like. Not saying I agree with his reasoning all of the time, but the attempts to silence him because he dare write a poem are outrageous and uncalled for.
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 18:43 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 18:52 (twenty years ago) link
but that's all for a different thread I s'pose.
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 18:57 (twenty years ago) link
― Big Boi, Monday, 17 November 2003 19:35 (twenty years ago) link
Maybe it is because ddrake cannot state his opinion on anything in a way that doesn't reek of asshattery.
― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Monday, 17 November 2003 19:40 (twenty years ago) link
"I don't like it, therefore claims that it's good are specious"
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 19:42 (twenty years ago) link
― Big Boi, Monday, 17 November 2003 19:45 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 19:46 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 19:47 (twenty years ago) link
― Big Boi, Monday, 17 November 2003 19:48 (twenty years ago) link
― Big Boi, Monday, 17 November 2003 19:50 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 19:51 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 19:52 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 19:54 (twenty years ago) link
― Big Boi, Monday, 17 November 2003 20:01 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:04 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:05 (twenty years ago) link
― Big Boi, Monday, 17 November 2003 20:10 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:14 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:23 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:24 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 20:36 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:37 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:38 (twenty years ago) link
Notice how big boi kicked it off with "I agree with ddrake."
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 20:43 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:44 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 20:46 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:47 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 20:47 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:48 (twenty years ago) link
One of the saddest/funniest things about all this is assuming that everyone else who has posted on this thread with (well-deserved) barbs in your direction does so simply because they're my toadies or something like that.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:48 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:48 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:49 (twenty years ago) link
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:49 (twenty years ago) link
James.You are asking for whiter hip hop.Admit it. -- ddrake (ddrak...), November 17th, 2003 10:54 PM.
To be perfectly honest.
x-post woah lemme get back to ya on this fucking A
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:50 (twenty years ago) link
Big Boi singled out a specific crew for specific reasons and didn't race-bait.
Geir, shut up, please, you don't know what you're talking about.
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:50 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:50 (twenty years ago) link
― Big Boi, Monday, 17 November 2003 20:50 (twenty years ago) link
And then there are sentences which make me ponder if humanity is not worth exploding to death.
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:51 (twenty years ago) link
Bullshit.Well-deserved? Perhaps you'd like to explain.
maybe because your repeat yourself to an unusual degree, take more pride in being right all along than is really necessary for this discussion, and come across as extremely self-righteous? just a guessThis describes pretty much every person on ILM.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 20:52 (twenty years ago) link
I think Matos just did.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:53 (twenty years ago) link
― Roland Barthes (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:54 (twenty years ago) link
And I responded in turn.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 20:55 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:55 (twenty years ago) link
Roland, Uhh....I went to a pretty decent college, and I'm still not sure what you just said.
― Big Boi, Monday, 17 November 2003 20:55 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:55 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:56 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:59 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:00 (twenty years ago) link
etc. etc. etc.
By the way, Geir is hilarious.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 21:00 (twenty years ago) link
x-post Okay I have to leave this thread forever now cuz that post actually made my blood-pressure rise.
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:00 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:00 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:01 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:01 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:01 (twenty years ago) link
this calls for a meta-thread but I really think it's healthy when this sort of thing happens, at least if people can stay mellow enough to keep from stomping off
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:02 (twenty years ago) link
me : geir posts regarding hip-hop :: motorists in traffic : car crash
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:02 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 21:04 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 21:05 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:06 (twenty years ago) link
I'm not excusing anyone's behavior. I'm just trying to be helpful.
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:12 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:13 (twenty years ago) link
(Honestly, when you were going on in circles examing the hip hop aesthetic, "values", and white culture (but not white race), and long instrumentals, and white-ification, but yet allowing overlap in some cases, it really threw circles arounds the thread and did no one any good, mostly yourself.)
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:13 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:13 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:14 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:15 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:15 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:16 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:16 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett IS Popeye the Sailor! (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:16 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:18 (twenty years ago) link
8==>{}
(yes, of COURSE it's juvenile!)
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:18 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos IS Ned Raggett IS Popeye the Sailor! (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:19 (twenty years ago) link
I wasn't going "in circles" with regards to my logic about hip hop.I wasn't allowing overlap in "some cases," i said that ALL music has cultural overlap - i mean, sample based production SAMPLES music from another culture.
And frankly, I think I have a right to be un-relaxed - or PISSED THE FUCK OFF - when people are searching the internet for my fuckgin PERSONAL FUCKING INFORMATION.I'm sorry if you disagree.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 21:19 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 21:21 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:22 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 21:23 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:24 (twenty years ago) link
To be utterly honest, I didn't really get what was going on initially. I will say you can do just the same with me easily enough through my own campus/place of employment:
http://www.uci.edu/cgi-bin/phonebook?raggett
I mean, it's public info -- if this is something you'd rather not have available for review by anyone, get it changed if you can or ask your campus to change it for you. You shouldn't feel obligated to share things you'd rather keep private (and again, I know nothing of Wooster's reputation in general), but the Internet *is* an open resource and you either have to be careful about it or else be aware of the potential compromises. There's a reason many people post here with spam-attack addresses or pseudonyms.
As for whether or not your argument was going in circles or not, you've got people saying it was...so are they wrong or do you want to review your argument to see why people got that impression? Cripes, I'm unclear all the time about things that seem perfectly logical in an argument to me, and sometimes it takes another pair of eyes to say, "Well, you know..."
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:25 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 21:29 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:30 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:31 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 21:32 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:33 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 21:33 (twenty years ago) link
Well, then I'll ask one last time. How come, then, you attacked James for most of his suggestions, which would clearly imply his vision of overlap, if indeed overlap occurs in ALL music? What was wrong with the overlap he suggested? You never quite explained the heresy in his suggestions, except accusing him of wanting to turn hip-hop more "white" -- which then became "white culture" (as opposed to "white race") which then ended up being defined as "long instrumentals and some such" at one point, which was really bizarre, and sorry to say, created definite loops in your argument, as "long instruemtals" is something quite exclusive from any single music culture, as they exist in practically EVERY musical culture, black and white, etc. I mean, can you not detect the loop and confusion there? I still contend you were arguing in circles. Sorry. And yes, it does suck when someone looks up your personal info. That's creepy, but it wasn't me doing this, so don't ever fucking mix your emotions regarding that and then take it out on me in the same post, got it?
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:35 (twenty years ago) link
WAH! Hey, wait!
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:38 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:40 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:41 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:42 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:43 (twenty years ago) link
Well, then I'll ask one last time. How come, then, you attacked James for most of his suggestions, which would clearly imply his vision of overlap, if indeed overlap occurs in ALL music? What was wrong with the overlap he suggested?
I think this question was answered earlier in the thread, near the very beginning: 12 tone based hip-hop with lyrics by W. Whitman would no longer be hip-hop.
You never quite explained the heresy in his suggestions, except accusing him of wanting to turn hip-hop more "white" -- which then became "white culture" (as opposed to "white race") which then ended up being defined as "long instrumentals and some such" at one point, which was really bizarre, and sorry to say, created definite loops in your argument, as "long instruemtals" is something quite exclusive from any single music culture, as they exist in practically EVERY musical culture, black and white, etc. I mean, can you not detect the loop and confusion there? I still contend you were arguing in circles. Sorry.
I can see where there is confusion, but I can explain it to you if you'd like. Certainly I'm not suggesting that all extended instrumental passages are "white culture." (And by the way, "white" always refers to "white culture" unless I'm referring to what I thought most intelligent societies had established was a social construct of "race"). What I meant was that from a ROCK perspective (and there are many "rock" perspectives, but they all are considerably different from hip hop perspectives on music) extended instrumental solos make for interesting art - and that from the beginning, rock was based on instrumental music. I was associating this rockist critique with a specifically culturally WHITE rock perspective - the average music fan of Classic Rock Radio, say. I was arguing that instrumental music does not make hip hop any more groundbreaking, and associating this idea is particularly "white," assuming that the person suggesting it is coming from a rock background - of course if they are coming from say a jazz background, rather than being "white" its being "old." haha.
And yes, it does suck when someone looks up your personal info. That's creepy, but it wasn't me doing this, so don't ever fucking mix your emotions regarding that and then take it out on me in the same post, got it?
I don't think I have done that to you - but you haven't made any personal insults to me that I can remember. UNlike Ned, UNlike the other asshats who were posting before, you argued against my ideas rather than me myself. Thank you.
PS: I don't claim my ideas are faultless, I'm sorry if I've come across that way.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 21:44 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:45 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:46 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:47 (twenty years ago) link
Blount you (and many others) were just as foolish. Somebody needs to lock this shit, it's going in circles (down the toilet).
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 21:47 (twenty years ago) link
FIle under: statements that deny themselves. I mean, you have the term hip hop right in there! .....hip hop....would no longer be hip hop. Huh?
― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:49 (twenty years ago) link
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:49 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 21:50 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:50 (twenty years ago) link
Like it or not, ddrake, assuming that you were correct in assuming that I had heard no hip-hop and that you had the 'right' idea of what an extremely personal best-of list should be like felt like a pretty damn personal insult to me. You started on the wrong foot and then compounded things as you went, and if you're now realizing that it was a mistake, I'm willing to hear you say as such. Otherwise portraying yourself as the sole wounded victim in this situation is martyrology I'm not interested in.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:51 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:52 (twenty years ago) link
There's gold in them thar hills!
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:53 (twenty years ago) link
I have been drunk since August.
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:54 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:54 (twenty years ago) link
haha just because someone says something ISN'T hip hop doesn't make it so!
oooh, someones on the deconstructionist tip.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 21:56 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:56 (twenty years ago) link
Ah, where this is where "in my humble opinion" becomes the key phrase. Terms, definitions, values, aesthetics change over time.Musical history has a nah-sty habit of changing over time (a topic worthy of another thread) Yeah, that concepts sounds really funny NOW.... (Muahaahahahaah)
I was arguing that instrumental music does not make hip hop any more groundbreaking, and associating this idea is particularly "white," assuming that the person suggesting it is coming from a rock background
"in your humble opinion". "in his humble opinion" "just bringin' it back to the days of IMHO'llin'"
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:57 (twenty years ago) link
He DID learn! He used the word "asshats"!!!
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:57 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:57 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 21:58 (twenty years ago) link
Of course its "IMHO."
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 21:58 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward, Monday, 17 November 2003 21:59 (twenty years ago) link
arguable
from the beginning, rock was based on instrumental music
The blues are mainly instrumental?
How so? I fail to see much to do with deconstructionism in the cited comment.
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:00 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:00 (twenty years ago) link
And I appreciate that. It IS personal, however, to assume that you know what someone has or hasn't heard, to assume that you know best what someone honestly likes more or less than something else, and so forth. Those are personal judgments and the net effect is to say, "Well, your opinion is wrong on an objective level, sorry." You couldn't have raised my hackles any more effectively and you couldn't have come across as any more humorless as a result. What I've said before stays just as true now -- don't hang around on a board thinking that you've found something which 'clearly' nobody else knows about or might not have already encountered, and don't draw automatic assumptions from what someone says about themselves or their preferences that somehow 'explains' everything about them. You're only going to get a hell of a lot of grief and most of it will be with damn good reason.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:01 (twenty years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:01 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:02 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:02 (twenty years ago) link
Read it motherfuckers. ---------------OR not.Seriously Ned, read Blues People.To quote big lebowski.
see ddrake this is the kind of smug *bam* i'm smart me bullshit that gets me pissed. i actuallyhaven't read Blues People. This tells me nothing. This gives me no reason to read it. This is just a pretentious kid dropping names. At least gimme the salient points which have SOMETHING to do with whats being argued here.
You're all up for arguments, supposedly. So John drops you this:
and what do you reply? what do you reply? you complain about being compared to Geir, instead of responding by arguing your point.
andBut no, I can't really offer pointers any more than anyone else can tell me in frank terms exactly what makes ROCK.YOU FEEL IT MAN!!!
this was your attempt at a joke...right?
― gaz (gaz), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:04 (twenty years ago) link
Of course its arguable. That's what I'm doing, presenting an argument.
The beginning of one's conception of the rock aesthetic, i.e. "Rock REALLY began with the beatles!" "Rock began with the Velvet Underground, for me," etc.
If he wants to play that way, "hip hop" can mean anything, and this entire thread is pointless. Perhaps "hip hop" refers to all music ever created. In which case my argument is no longer valid. Fuck circles, lets go in a mobius strip.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 22:04 (twenty years ago) link
― can't! stay! away! (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:05 (twenty years ago) link
― must! drag! self! from! computer! (M Matos), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:06 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:07 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:08 (twenty years ago) link
Ummm...no. That was me NOT being "pretentious," or claiming that I have any sort of knowledge to drop on anyone, simply because I DON'T know what yr experiences are.i emphasize that Blues People is a great book though. I'm sorry that isn't convincing enough.
"If deconstruction means anything, it means that statements such as "deconstructionism means x" are meaningless."-Jacques Derrida (roughly)
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 22:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:08 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:09 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 22:10 (twenty years ago) link
― nate detritus (natedetritus), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:12 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:12 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 22:13 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:13 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 22:15 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:17 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 22:17 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:18 (twenty years ago) link
The correct response to that would be "I'd have to hear it first."
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 22:18 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 22:20 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:22 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 22:23 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward, Monday, 17 November 2003 22:23 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 22:23 (twenty years ago) link
You mean besides "punk"?
Oooh, jess got the keys.. gotta get my dick in here somewhere...
============D
YEEEEEAH baby... lock it now, you sexy mofo
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:23 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:23 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 22:24 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:25 (twenty years ago) link
― gaz (gaz), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:38 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:39 (twenty years ago) link
Substitute Blues People with, say, "The Bible" and you see why we're a bit bugged here. Fundamentalism's pretty boring in any guise.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:49 (twenty years ago) link
― vahid (vahid), Monday, 17 November 2003 22:54 (twenty years ago) link
Or in some cases, extremely funny.
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 23:02 (twenty years ago) link
― doomnut bietch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 23:02 (twenty years ago) link
There's always room for variety.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 23:05 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 23:07 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 November 2003 23:15 (twenty years ago) link
― nate detritus (natedetritus), Monday, 17 November 2003 23:16 (twenty years ago) link
― vahid (vahid), Monday, 17 November 2003 23:16 (twenty years ago) link
― vahid (vahid), Monday, 17 November 2003 23:17 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 23:17 (twenty years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 17 November 2003 23:19 (twenty years ago) link
Momus has his filter set so threads about hip-hop aren't visible
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 23:20 (twenty years ago) link
I'd be interested to see how you think Blues People is "fundamentalism."
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Michael Patrick Brady (Michael Patrick Brady), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:01 (twenty years ago) link
1. Play Squarepusher in one CD player2. Play Ned Raggett Reads the Almanac in another
This should be something akin to what you seek
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:07 (twenty years ago) link
http://www.victorynetwork.org/ArtFile/BillySunday2.jpg
― Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:17 (twenty years ago) link
(pssst, ddrake, I don't think Ned was talking about the book)
― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:22 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:29 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:30 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:30 (twenty years ago) link
(still making your card, cinnibuns)
― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:31 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:38 (twenty years ago) link
― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:38 (twenty years ago) link
This is why people have been using the word "fundamentalism" over the last ten or twenty posts, btw
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:40 (twenty years ago) link
AHHAHAHAHHA1!1!!1!!
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:40 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:41 (twenty years ago) link
world destructor is pretty cool but i wouldn't rank it above pm dawn.
― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:42 (twenty years ago) link
I'd rank PM Dawn somewhere between Arrested Development and Talib Kweli.
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:44 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:45 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:46 (twenty years ago) link
― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:48 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:49 (twenty years ago) link
You'd know.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:51 (twenty years ago) link
"The classic example of this sort of phenomenon is with fundamentalist Christians, who will tell you that if you read the New Testament and didn't convert, then you "didn't understand" it."
― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:51 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:52 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:52 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:52 (twenty years ago) link
Hey donut, I got it. Read what followed.I asked him to explain why he disagreed.
Are YOU having trouble reading?
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:52 (twenty years ago) link
Well, but what you said was: That he wasn't displaying any knowledge of having comprehended the book
That's fundamentalism. What he wasn't displaying was that his knowledge conformed to yours.
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:53 (twenty years ago) link
I care, much like Carrow's.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:54 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:54 (twenty years ago) link
Remember, Ned, than when anyway tells you "ned, seriously, fuck you", they mean love and bunnies.
― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:55 (twenty years ago) link
ONCE again, another bullshit "hahahahaah I'm so funny" comment by Ned, instead of actually explaining or arguing any sort of point here. Assuming one portion of my argument that isn't accurate, reposting it over and over again....oh yr so clever.
Fucker.
I got yr point smartass. And my follow up was "so what was it that you disagreed with."
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:55 (twenty years ago) link
I ALWAYS assume that, DB. And when somebody calls me a 'fucker,' it is only out of the spirit of agape as the Greeks spoke of.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:56 (twenty years ago) link
I told ned to fuck himself in response to a cavalcade of personal insults he'd already heaped on me in this thread. Wise ass remarks, etc etc etc
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:57 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:58 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:58 (twenty years ago) link
Nope.
Or, perhaps I'm asking for him to clarify what it is he doesn't agree with? Which would have been a relevant thing to discuss back when I first mentioned the book waaaaaay back in the thread. But it was much easier to take the easier way out and personally insult me for another 400 posts.
Sounds like you dodged J0hn's point -- then whined and bitched and hyperbolized about how you got insulted... again.
Have we SERIOUSLY come to the kindergarten era "You started it first" argument, now?
― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 00:59 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:00 (twenty years ago) link
You're dodging the issue! The subject isn't Blues People at all! It's that you took issue with being called a fundamentalist, and, q.e.d., the relevants quotes regarding your fundamentalist attitude have been shown! I am sorry if you took my last post to be smart-assy, I didn't mean it that way.
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:00 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:01 (twenty years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:02 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:03 (twenty years ago) link
― happy to help (M Matos), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:03 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:03 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:05 (twenty years ago) link
The hypocrisy of people calling ME out for acting like a child after what went on for the majority of this thread is baffling.
The fact that J0hn still refuses to answer this:You're dodging the issue! The subject isn't Blues People at all! It's that you took issue with being called a fundamentalist, and, q.e.d., the relevants quotes regarding your fundamentalist attitude have been shown! I am sorry if you took my last post to be smart-assy, I didn't mean it that way.
So your purpose in this thread is to get me into some sort of logical trap? See, I thought it was the actual issue we were discussing, which WOULD be Blues People.
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:05 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:06 (twenty years ago) link
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:07 (twenty years ago) link
well ok perhaps nothing is "absolutely" relevant but you get my point
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:07 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:08 (twenty years ago) link
J0hn, "biases inherent in my approach to discourse"? So what are you saying, I'm not arguing correctly? Excuse me. In the meantime, lets avoid the point of what I'd been saying by attacking the way in which I argue, even though clearly this point is irrelevant to my argument as a whole.
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:09 (twenty years ago) link
BECAUSE NED HAS NOT READ THE BOOK AND IS NOT OBLIGATED TO READ THAT BOOK NOR ANY FUCKING BOOK THAT YOU'VE READ BECAUSE ARGUING ON THE PREMISE OF A BOOK THAT ONLY YOU'VE PROBABLY READ MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A FUCKING SNOB AND A VERY FRAGILE DEFENSIVE SNOB AT THAT
― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:10 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:11 (twenty years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:12 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:13 (twenty years ago) link
If he doesn't want to read it, I'm not trying to fucking make him!
Using a previously written book as the basis of an argument makes me into a "snob"?! What the fuck is wrong with you?
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:13 (twenty years ago) link
AS A FUCKING RECOMMENDATION.
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:14 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:15 (twenty years ago) link
*scratches head, looks upthread*
-- ddrake (ddrak...), November 17th, 2003. (later)
Maybe there's a Dr. D. and Mr. Drake situation here.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:15 (twenty years ago) link
Yes, we will lock threads for you because you can't control yourself posting on them.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:16 (twenty years ago) link
Because the person you're arguing with has the unfair advantage of not having the knowledge contained within the book, and therefore not only makes the continuation of said argument silly and invalid but gives you gloating points for being more "literate". Don't pretend otherwise, fucker x 401. (Sorry, had to one up Ned there)
― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:16 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:16 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:17 (twenty years ago) link
not that you're "not arguing correctly" - Baraka himself would point out that the ways in which one frames one's arguments speak as loudly as and possibly louder than the arguments themselves
but y'all don't hear me though -B.I.G.
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:17 (twenty years ago) link
Hey, you're right! And what a clear and sweet recommendation it was! Like saying the word 'fucker,' it is done out of love.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:17 (twenty years ago) link
this is NOT a semantic issue and to pretend it is is ungallant
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:18 (twenty years ago) link
What the fuck!? That's why I RECOMMENDED HE READ IT, because he DIDN'T have the knowledge contained within. HOW THE FUCK DOES THAT MAKE ME A SNOB!?
Actually Ned, "Read it motherfuckers" was the first recommendation
That was definitely before any animosity had developed in the thread, and "motherfuckers" was not used in the same way I've been using profanity for the last couple posts.Nice try taking it out of context though.
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:18 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:19 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:19 (twenty years ago) link
Jesus H., the Mormons make their case better. Scratch that, the LaRouchians.
It did NOT, however, make me want to fuck his mother.
Then clearly he has failed in his grand mission.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:20 (twenty years ago) link
As I said.
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:20 (twenty years ago) link
HO HHO HO HO OH O
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:21 (twenty years ago) link
"There's this really good book I've read called Blues People by Leroi Jones. It makes some great points on this argument that I think can apply today and to this argument -- if you haven't read it, give it a try. I really like it because [reasons x, y, z]."
Had you just said that or something like it, I don't think much of this thread would exist in the first place. Why does being 'provocative' make your point stronger?
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:22 (twenty years ago) link
the first thing i thought of when i saw the original question(s) was the 9 minute version of 'a day like no other' by Company Flow featuring assorted japanese MCs, its got lots of different sections, i've always thought of it as a sort of prog track. erm, thats all.
― zappi (joni), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:22 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:22 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:22 (twenty years ago) link
Because you dropped your cards and claimed yourself winner of the argument the easy way... It's pointless to continue.. here, go to Amazon and check out Pedro V. Pajitnov's Debate and Demeanor. So you can school yourself, because it looks like you need it.
― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:23 (twenty years ago) link
It shouldn't have. "Mothefuckers" was not intended to suggest animosity, and was rather a general, "what's up, fuckers." Not intended to be insulting, particularly. I'm sorry if you read it that way.
excuse me. I shall work on this in the futureAllow me to recommend the book once again.
Because you dropped your cards and claimed yourself winner of the argument the easy way...
As opposed to what you've been doing this entire thread?
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:24 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:25 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:26 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:27 (twenty years ago) link
This is easier than a frisky kitten and a laser pen!
You evil genius, sir.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:27 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:27 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:27 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:28 (twenty years ago) link
Yeah, that's how we all start our threads around here.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:28 (twenty years ago) link
― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:28 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:28 (twenty years ago) link
"Hold Me Now," easy. Lurvly ballad.
I still think any further 'engagement' with him from any ilxors is tantamount to running up the score.
You're probably right there.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:29 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:30 (twenty years ago) link
― NED RAGGITZ NUM1 ETHUG (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:31 (twenty years ago) link
And so it is demonstrated yet again that if you leave a thread-gone-wrong to its own devices, it will eventually justify itself in a great flash of glory and splendor.
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:31 (twenty years ago) link
(I have been dying of laughter from these past ten minutes or so and DB just took the cake.)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:32 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:32 (twenty years ago) link
i missed this bit
― gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:32 (twenty years ago) link
we do need a 'justify my ethug' 7" stat
OMNIPOTENT BABY AHOY.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:33 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:36 (twenty years ago) link
― gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:38 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:39 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:40 (twenty years ago) link
― gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:41 (twenty years ago) link
― jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:42 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:49 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:49 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:50 (twenty years ago) link
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 01:54 (twenty years ago) link
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 02:11 (twenty years ago) link
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 02:13 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 02:14 (twenty years ago) link
― ron (ron), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 02:53 (twenty years ago) link
― ron (ron), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 02:54 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 03:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Mikomcho, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 03:13 (twenty years ago) link
― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 03:16 (twenty years ago) link
"he who does not feel me is not real to me and therefore he does not exist/so poof vamoose you son of a bitch"
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 03:21 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 03:25 (twenty years ago) link
Yo! What would you do if I could prove you didn't exist and it was trueLike ??? solidified proof of your essence Of you in the spoof of your birthNow I guess that would lesson your worth to the dirt and the earthAnd the leaf, now I leave you alone without belief that your really hereAnd assist you beneath your fearAn endearing tear would fall if all that I said was true,Am I right or ???, too complex for quoteI'll have the final say,Like the rope to the boat to the dock, you're not free yet, manYou're sick, stuck, caught, sick in the head,Stuck to the bed, you're dumbfedDiseased with that mononuclear, what I look like money?!That latin listening to Coolio? So I ask,What was your mom's task when she had you?If fully she knew that through all of her painHer baby was born without brain and insane and just plain,no style! No smile, your memories are worth a shitpile to meYou believe that you're free?!! Man, free from your mom,Free from the man and most of all free from me but you see,I've caught you! My bad you don't really exist,So I got to, explain this so when I tell you how not to,You won't do it, I'm screwin your thinkin!I know I exist and I prove it cause I'm listening to youBut I ask, what if God was an evil genius who only made you believe you were true?And your life was nothing man! Just a really long dreamAnd when you die you'll start a whole new life, a whole new dreamBut that was just a dream, and it seems man you can't break out the cycleAm I crazy? Go to your church and ask your white God if I'm right though,Whatever he replies will be lies, we've already established this evil,When I'm lying, you don't exist but merely as emotion and perceival,Believe you'll be round tomorrow kid, yo,You've borrowed time with no entrance,And since you're a dream I can mentally put on the pinchAnd you disappear in an instant,
― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 03:29 (twenty years ago) link
― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:03 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:08 (twenty years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:10 (twenty years ago) link
― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:11 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:12 (twenty years ago) link
― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:15 (twenty years ago) link
yeah, I totally got "owned" in thread, especially by cinnablount, who didn't actually pay attention to what I was arguing.
Man, this thread was one lame fuck with ddrake thread nearly from the beginning.
What a fucking joke.
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:17 (twenty years ago) link
I clearly didn't mean it as an insult. You know that, so you really can shut up about it.
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:19 (twenty years ago) link
― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:20 (twenty years ago) link
Clearly, this thread hasn't been a bunch of mutherfuckers jumping down my neck from the beginning.
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:25 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:26 (twenty years ago) link
― Mofo, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:27 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:27 (twenty years ago) link
well it hasn't! it might have gotten intense, but I think most everybody was trying to discuss things with you! yes even Blount! elliptical discussion doesn't mean it's not discussion, heated discussion doesn't mean it's not discussion, even way-overheated discussion still counts!
not "paranoid": just "defensive," maybe justifiably so, but the puzzling thing about getting defensive is that it usually fails to provide much protection/shelter/however one wants to describe what being defensive does.
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:31 (twenty years ago) link
(please don't take that as 'jumping on you' or something. i'm trying to help ya out)
― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:33 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:36 (twenty years ago) link
"I can't think of any other occasional on ilx where someone has had their ass as out and out schooled as ddrake on this thread. and I still think any further 'engagement' with him from any ilxors is tantamount to running up the score."
Yeah, what a "game" it was. I don't really see how my opinion was "owned" at all. Certainly there were minor flaws in my argument, but no more than in anyone else's. And I admitted it when their were and refined my argument par the course. But there was some SERIOUS ganging-up-on-ddrake going on. Not just the cyberstalking, but what amounted to harrassment of ME rather than a discussion of my ideas. Or even a HEATED discussion of my ideas.See the difference, Ned? (if you're out there?)I attacked your LISTYou attacked ME.
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:37 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:39 (twenty years ago) link
1) Original poster James picks misleading/provocative thread title and couches what would otherwise be a harmless inquiry about experimental rap in the dangerous area of "rap on the whole is stagnant and I want the newness".2) The usual suspects mock this. Most of us are all "ok, fine, pfhsgh" because we're familiar with these posters. ddrake initially chimes in with "instruments in rap /= progressive" and gets little if any real hostility.3) ddrake then mistakes "progressive/experimental" for "white", flings out a "you know that's what you really mean" equivalent ("admit it") and suddenly the tone of Typical ILM Prog-Rap Mockery gets a bit weird4) Ned sez "because instruments are white! oh wait" and ddrake fires back "U R NOT OF TEH FUNNIE"5) ddrake: "Seriously though, unless you actually know the hip hop history, which it sounds like you don't, I'd wait to listen to "prog" hip hop. " [emphasis mine]6) A couple more joke posts, a couple geniune attempts to steer the thread into actual topical coherence ("Dalek?"), J0hn being all "Ned OTM"7) dd: "Oh give me a break! Dilute, my friends, dilute!" Then he goes onto some snotty "prog is unfun" jibe.8) Jokes jokes jokes. The nate that is not me says "The twisted part is that some people actually like challenging their brains."9) dd: "Rush! Yes! Prog stupid! Also read it, motherfuckers!"10) not me nate: "But Braxton/Cornel/Toni Morrison..."11) Ned to o. nate: "ddrake will get mad at you now and claim you don't understand hip-hop. You are so burned. *cue ddrake: 'Ha ha, where is your sense of humor, dork, etc.'*"12) "you're out of your league, donnie."13) dd shortly later: "Blues People is a more incredible work than anything anyone on ILM has accomplished...a more important work as well. That I can't believe more of you haven't read." [here is where my arrogance alarm goes off.]14) Ned sums up the crux of the issue: "Remind me again how you've assumed you know what everyone here has read/listened to/thought again? I missed the proof of your omniscience here."15) Some stupid bullshit ensues16) Wooster is namedropped17) Accusations of privacy intrusions fly18) The thread officially becomes ridiculous19) Everyone tries to explain to ddrake why they're mad at him20) ddrake gets mad defensive21) I forgot to mention, blount has a field day22) OWNED23) A failed attempt to return to original discussion in the thread24) ddrake: "So "whitening" in the case in which I am using it refers to the values inherent in the musicians' musical ideas. White CULTURE rather than white PEOPLE."25) Oh no26) nickalicious and scott seward simmer things down somewhat27) Perry sums everything up neatly28) Numerous thread-locking requests go out29) Oh yeah, there's some stuff about Amiri Baraka in here too (c/o J0hn Darn1elle)30) Someone named "Big Boi" stomps in, says "prog rap is shit!" only in much wordier terms, resorts to name-dropping the Strokes, then eventually disappears31) "Ned and his ethugs" are mentioned32) People start backtracking in an attempt to recap this thread33) This goes on for a while34) There is a delightful Popeye intermission35) An ugly goulash of meta-spastic he-said-he-said "no no no I'M RIGHT I WIN" nonsense and arrogant written-in-stone declarations of what various genres TRULY AND REALLY ARE AND AREN'T, DAMN IT36) This actually goes on for a while37) http://hipsterdetritus.blogspot.com/cam.gif38) more pictures, which ddrake calls "unclever"39) see #3540) I post this41) I feel dirty
― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:50 (twenty years ago) link
Congratulations.I especially like how you mock my posts...i.e. U R NOT OF TEH FUNNIE
and just quote their posts as if they came from the most sensible, polite place in the universe.
Thank you, you've really summed up this thread "accurately."Someone lock this bullshit.
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:55 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:59 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:59 (twenty years ago) link
― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 05:03 (twenty years ago) link
This thread was at the top of the list of "new answers" when I came back from doing 3 hours of homework, actually.
19) Everyone tries to explain to ddrake why they're mad at him
Was this before or after everyone mocks me?
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 05:04 (twenty years ago) link
Definately check out Dalek, David. Especially the split 7" single called Nummer 3 on Bomb Mitte w/ Faust to clock in your number 2 category of sampling.
This came free with the last WIRE Tapper actually.
― Mandy M., Tuesday, 18 November 2003 05:07 (twenty years ago) link
I need to get some sleep.
This thread is ridiculous...I can understand where I hear so much shit about ILM. Some cliquish motherfuckers some of you are.Even when "big boi" TOLD you he was agreeing with me, you continued to give me shit.My initial provocations taken too seriously.My actual arguments met with jeers from the peanut gallery.What a stupid bullshit thread this has been.
Now, here come a cavalcade of posts...
ddrake was owned, ddrake is so stupid, etc. etc. etc.Ned Raggett having thugs! That's crazy! No, no one ganged up on him! ddrake just came and started trouble in our normally pure community!
Christ.
have a good fucking life.
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 05:09 (twenty years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 05:11 (twenty years ago) link
This sentence makes me happy. :-)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 06:45 (twenty years ago) link
So, what's the answer? My feeling is that snidey, snarky comments from regulars don't help. It can create a sense of cliqueiness and safety-in-numbers pack mentality (justifiably, or not). If you've heard it all before, perhaps it would be a good idea to either a) leave the thread as if a swarm of driver ants* were fast approaching, or b) post helpful links to previous discussions, then bow out (some, like Tracer Hand, seem to take this latter option as a matter of course).
*Very scary prospect, if true.
― David A. (Davant), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 07:14 (twenty years ago) link
the ideas stated at the top of this thread suck. good ideas in the same vein don't exist that much. aside from kid 606. wait, that isn't clever. yeah, wait til i'm 20. i'll produce something cool as fuck.
the more i think about it and the less i type the more i realize you just want hip hop that isn't made by people who are ghetto but by people who have been through graduate school or something. yeah, anticon is sucking at that cuz they fall into the whitekid hipster ghetto trap. maybe you want to listen to prefuse 73. hahahah
― asfdzxc (asfdzxc), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 07:58 (twenty years ago) link
― asfdzxc (asfdzxc), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 08:07 (twenty years ago) link
ILXOR in todays Guardian
― bobby conn, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 09:23 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 11:13 (twenty years ago) link
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 11:27 (twenty years ago) link
Sound like a good idea. The generaly quality of all kinds of music would have increased if all musicians had been through graduate school. Mind you, all those European 18th and 19th century classical composers had. :-)
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 11:42 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 13:48 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 13:49 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 13:50 (twenty years ago) link
There's lots of hip-hop with extended instrumentalism, in fact there's *gasp* a whole shitload of INSTRUMENTAL HIP-HOP ARTISTS!!! *loud gasp*
James, you may like...
*DJ Shadow*DJ Spooky*the afforementioned DJ Vadim*Invisible Skratch Picklz(in fact, watch Wave Twisters, an animated film whose entire score - dialog and all - is provided by DJ Q-bert)*some of the collaborations Buckethead has done with various instrumental hip-hop artists (such as the album Bermuda Triangle he did with DJ Extrakd or the Praxis Transmutations Live album which is a performance by Buckethead & Invisible Skratch Picklz)
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 13:57 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 13:59 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 14:28 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 15:39 (twenty years ago) link
He isn't, but he wasn't a typical droupout, unlike Lennon, and has always seemed more interested in the music part than in the rebellion part.
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 15:43 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 15:48 (twenty years ago) link
― Big Boi, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 17:38 (twenty years ago) link
― M Specktor (M Specktor), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 17:42 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 17:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 22:31 (twenty years ago) link
― zebox.com/evolvemusic, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 05:08 (nineteen years ago) link
spectacular. Tears of laughter, seriously.
― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 10:04 (nineteen years ago) link
1. It's gay.
2. ddrake's point is stupid. (BTW, Genesis ruled, you asshat, and you merely comparing it to 'long instrumental solos' shows your complete fucking ignorance of the band.)
3. James Slone I've known for some time, from the SSMT days, and he could wipe the floor with most all of you intellectually.
― charmander, Saturday, 24 April 2004 01:39 (nineteen years ago) link
What the hell is progressive about it? Now, yes, I'm bearing in mind that you, Geir, have become famous for only thinking music that stays within the box is good, but let me say The Love Below just sucks.
"Hey Ya" was a fun pop tune, I admit, but the guy attempts to croon when he doesn't have the voice to croon, tries to write funk songs which fall flat, and let's not get into the "shit don't stink" song.
Speakerboxx? I'm sorry, Big Boi doesn't click without Andre 3000 rapping alongside him. The album as a whole is pretty decent, but that's it. Outkast's apex album was Aquemini, followed closely by Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik.
The Love Below was formulaic, and honestly, a huge step back from even Stankonia (which I admittedly like a lot). Speakerboxx was an attempt by Andre to branch out, and I can respect his talent, but he failed.
― what???, Saturday, 24 April 2004 01:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― sexyDancer, Saturday, 24 April 2004 16:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 24 April 2004 21:53 (nineteen years ago) link
I have a "there but for the grace of god go I" feeling about this thread. Though it could have been a few hundred posts shorter is someone had just sincerely apologized for the Wooster jokes.
― Sym (shmuel), Saturday, 24 April 2004 22:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 24 April 2004 23:00 (nineteen years ago) link
And remember, you can find hip-hop (writing) taken to new levels here:Why do people who hate music write about music?
― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 31 January 2005 09:45 (nineteen years ago) link
I also checked out Aesop Rock, which I found rather pleaseant.
― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 7 February 2005 21:16 (nineteen years ago) link
― rewritable, Monday, 7 February 2005 21:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 7 February 2005 21:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 7 February 2005 22:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 7 February 2005 22:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 7 February 2005 22:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― psycho pete (pete38), Sunday, 18 June 2006 04:22 (seventeen years ago) link
― aDOring NUTbians (donut), Sunday, 18 June 2006 06:43 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marmot 4-Tay (marmotwolof), Sunday, 18 June 2006 07:02 (seventeen years ago) link
― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 18 June 2006 07:04 (seventeen years ago) link
this seriously has to be the best and worst thread ever
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Thursday, 6 December 2007 01:51 (sixteen years ago) link
lol
― am0n, Thursday, 6 December 2007 02:21 (sixteen years ago) link
Boyz II Men (ft. Phil Collins) - Take Me Home
― sleepingbag, Friday, 7 December 2007 00:30 (sixteen years ago) link
Spittin' Wicked Randomness still goddamn rules
― PappaWheelie V, Friday, 7 December 2007 03:30 (sixteen years ago) link
I learned my lesson the hard way (and still have the scars to prove it), which was: DON'T ADMIT TO LIKING PREFUSE 73!
― Cliftonb, Friday, 7 December 2007 03:39 (sixteen years ago) link
<i>Ned Raggett having thugs! That's crazy! No, no one ganged up on him! ddrake just came and started trouble in our normally pure community!
have a good fucking life.</i>
― forksclovetofu, Friday, 7 December 2007 20:53 (sixteen years ago) link
i beieve the reason you haven't found any of this so far is because you were mistakenly looking for rock records.
-- fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, November 17, 2003 3:39 AM (4 years ago) Bookmark Link
GOAT zing? Maybe..
― The Brainwasher, Friday, 7 December 2007 20:58 (sixteen years ago) link
Second to maracas.jpg, maybe
― Dom Passantino, Friday, 7 December 2007 20:59 (sixteen years ago) link
deej vs. ned beef woah
― M@tt He1ges0n, Friday, 7 December 2007 21:42 (sixteen years ago) link
rly
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 7 December 2007 23:25 (sixteen years ago) link
hahahaha beautiful thread.
never ban bo jackson o if he revives threads like this.
― J0rdan S., Friday, 7 December 2007 23:37 (sixteen years ago) link
haha this is the kind of thread i might have started myself a) if we're talking 2006 model LJ and b) if i didn't know of ethan's prowl
― Just got offed, Friday, 7 December 2007 23:43 (sixteen years ago) link
it's nice to know that even deej got into regrettable ilm beefs when he was in college.
in other news, this is a pretty great response to one's first encounter w/ geir.
Dear god. -- ddrake, Tuesday, November 18, 2003 7:48 AM (4 years ago) Bookmark Link
― J0rdan S., Friday, 7 December 2007 23:49 (sixteen years ago) link
here's the weird thing. I actually appeared in this thread in 04. BETCHA CAN'T GUESS WHO I WAS
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Saturday, 8 December 2007 03:19 (sixteen years ago) link
and no I wasn't Slone
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Saturday, 8 December 2007 03:20 (sixteen years ago) link
deej = ddrake?
― Curt1s Stephens, Saturday, 8 December 2007 03:28 (sixteen years ago) link
i was retarded in this thread but it was one of the weirdest blount flipouts ever
― deej, Saturday, 8 December 2007 04:26 (sixteen years ago) link
This thread has actually prompted me to listen to The Infamous. Aw, there, see ddrake, aren't you happy now? Oh tell me you are happy! I cannot live without your approval!
-- Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, November 16, 2003 11:08 PM (4 years ago) Bookmark Link
― deej, Saturday, 8 December 2007 04:29 (sixteen years ago) link
victory
― deej, Saturday, 8 December 2007 04:30 (sixteen years ago) link
yea, FOUR YEARS AGO
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Saturday, 8 December 2007 04:31 (sixteen years ago) link
Is this thread like one of those contests, where the last one to take his hand off the truck wins $1000 or something? (Only explanation I could come up with why it's still so densely populated.)
-- Keith Harris (kharris1128), Tuesday, 18 November 2003 04:03 (4 years ago) Link
Sometimes I wish Keith had posted on ILX more, even though I know he always had better things to do.
― da croupier, Saturday, 8 December 2007 04:44 (sixteen years ago) link
The irony of the whole position you are taking here is it precludes us from any discussion on music...ever. Other than making each other aware of different performers. What is the point in arguing the relative quality of a recording when it is the listener's experience and context that decides whether it's worth hearing anyway?
lololololol @ deej taking the standard college freshman relativist position
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 8 December 2007 04:47 (sixteen years ago) link
What position should he take?
― three handclaps, Saturday, 8 December 2007 04:48 (sixteen years ago) link
(Real question.)
It's still pretty dodgy though the way otherwise smart posters were compelled by deej-beef to defend point blank some incredibly patronising assumptions in the original post.
"But I've become compelled by the idea of experimental hip hop. I expect that a surge of really experimental rap would cause a backlash worse than the anti-prog backlash of the late seventies, but I really can care less about purity aesthetics. I just want to hear something new or innovative in the genre. I feel the genre is being held back by conservatism within the movement. This can change."
In what universe does any sentence in this paragraph (apart from the first and the last if read in isolation) make sense?
― Tim F, Saturday, 8 December 2007 04:48 (sixteen years ago) link
In the universe most of us live in.
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Saturday, 8 December 2007 05:28 (sixteen years ago) link
o don't start it all up agin
― Lostandfound, Saturday, 8 December 2007 07:48 (sixteen years ago) link
I think some of the problem in the case of the original poster was to already have a mapped out idea of what this new form of "innovative" hip hop would take. Musical progress isn't linear. There's just too many known and unknown variables to synthesize. Its kind of like the Silk Road effect, but only its augmented by todays ultranetworked world.
If anything it's the word "experimental" that conjures up the bad images for me, at least. Ideas, even good creative ones taken from a wide variety of musical styles - but that are poorly digested and badly executed - don't pan usually don't pan out too well for any genre.
― Cliftonb, Saturday, 8 December 2007 10:07 (sixteen years ago) link
"don't usually pan out"
It late, alright. Get out of my marrow!
― Cliftonb, Saturday, 8 December 2007 10:12 (sixteen years ago) link
Lostandfound otm. what have I done? (jumps out window)
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Saturday, 8 December 2007 12:47 (sixteen years ago) link
-- Broheems (diamond), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:42 (4 years ago) Link
― Just got offed, Saturday, 8 December 2007 13:10 (sixteen years ago) link
dom googles people. it's fucked up.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Saturday, 8 December 2007 13:16 (sixteen years ago) link
omfg i've just read the entire thread...and it's goddamn familiar. most otm post = david a's near the end.
― Just got offed, Saturday, 8 December 2007 13:37 (sixteen years ago) link
louis i wouldn't sweat it too much - deej caught sooooooooo much worse than this when he first popped up and dude is total one of the gang now. still - have you considered dissensus?
-- j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 31 July 2006 02:35 (1 year ago) Bookmark Link
― Just got offed, Saturday, 8 December 2007 13:39 (sixteen years ago) link
I still prefer deej to you, to be honest.
― Dom Passantino, Saturday, 8 December 2007 13:56 (sixteen years ago) link
― ddrake, Sunday, November 16, 2003 10:54 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― dat dude delmar (and what), Monday, 24 November 2008 18:09 (fifteen years ago) link
I own thousands of rock records in gazillions of genres
^^ dude is going to have a hell of a time with the "genre" tag if he ever imports these into iTunes
― nabisco, Monday, 24 November 2008 18:16 (fifteen years ago) link
hahahaha oh this thread
― Black Seinfeld (HI DERE), Monday, 24 November 2008 18:50 (fifteen years ago) link
Extended songs, with long organic instrumental sections and lyrics focused on the abstract or taken from already existing source material (say a book of nineteenth or twentieth century poetry)
Cecil Taylor vocals
― gabbneb, Monday, 24 November 2008 18:53 (fifteen years ago) link
You are asking for whiter hip hop.Admit it.
racist
Dilute, my friends, dilute.
― ddrake, Sunday, November 16, 2003 10:06 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
u guys missed how this sounds like "continue my friends ... continue"
― is that my man hannity?? (deej), Monday, 24 November 2008 18:56 (fifteen years ago) link
er, continue my children ... continue
You might like Busdriver. Very wordy and clever. I love him - http://www.myspace.com/busdriver
Dangermouse is best known for being half of Gnarls Barkley, but his own work is great. Particular highlights include his album with MF Doom, the DM & Jemini album and his cut-up of The Beatles and Jay Z, The Grey Album.
A lot of stuff on Stones Throw records is worth investigating. Incandenza mentioned some but I'd also recommend the Lord Quasimoto album - http://www.last.fm/music/Quasimoto/The+Further+Adventures+of+Lord+Quas
I love Edan - seriously psychedelic. http://www.humblemagnificent.com/discography/discography.html
The ex-Company Flow guys - EL-P, Mr Len and, erm, the other one - make extremely dense, complex rap with doomy sci-fi storylines.
I think those are most of my recent favourites that don't involve the lyrical tropes you mention, or at least not much. Bear in mind that a lot of bragging hip hop is ludicrously cartoony and OTT, those guys aren't always serious - Kool Keith is a good example of someone who might seem obnoxious but is actually hilarious and ace.
Have fun.
― Peter "One Dart" Manley (The stickman from the hilarious 'xkcd' comics), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 21:16 (fifteen years ago) link
Jay-Z's 'Kingdom Come' album was pretty good but not one of his best. Wu Tang's '8 Diagrams' "come-back album last year was mint. The Clipse album was pretty good.
'Aftershow Babies' by Cadence Weapon doesn't deal in the usual bling/guns/drugs stuff. Neither does 'Alopecia' by Why?
If you want something Anglicized and roughneck try The Bug's magnificent 'London Zoo' platter: a hyper mix of street beats, ragga, dub step and Jamaican inflected toasting/rapping/singing: "Nurse! Nurse! Call for de hearse!"
I like a bit of electro cross over like Yo Majesty and the like but shamefully, hip hop just doesn't excite me any more. I must be getting old.
I've heard people really singing the praises of Young Jeezy and Lil Wayne but I nothing of either.
I've just looked at Delicatemoth and if we're going back further than two years I'd heartily HEARTILY/PARTILY recommend Edan, Company Flow, Madvillian, MFDoom, King Geedorah . . .
― Peter "One Dart" Manley (The stickman from the hilarious 'xkcd' comics), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 21:17 (fifteen years ago) link
I think Wu Tang might be a bit heavy for my tastes.Like The Bug.Like Cadence Weapon.Going back for another Cannibal Ox listen.Listened to Edan but can't remember if I liked it. Specific album reco on this one?
― Peter "One Dart" Manley (The stickman from the hilarious 'xkcd' comics), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 21:18 (fifteen years ago) link
I know sweet f*** all about Hip Hop. I've cultivated a dislike for it over the years: it's all about swinging your dick/your gun/your bling. It's about bitches and hos. It's violent and misogynist. The artists are generally enormously egotistical jerks.
Here's what I've liked so far: The Streets 'A Grand Don't Come for Free' and MIA's Kala.
it's all about swinging your dick/your gun/your bling
poll thread time
― xhuxk tha police (some dude), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 21:20 (fifteen years ago) link
Yo, yo, yo, yoYO! Yo man, yo manCheck it out
My dick is so large, my dick is so large!I can't even fuckin believe my dick is so large!My dick is so large, my dick is so large!I can't even fuckin believe my dick is so large!
[Jingle Bel]Yes my dick, is longer than an Amtrak, train!Runnin, from here, to Maine!Nonstop - I rock rock and I shockMy dick is so big, that you can call the copsYou can call the National Guard, the Army and the NavyBut yo yo yo baby, my dick is really bigIt's long, it's longer, it's longest, it's biggestIt's me, I even beat beat up the Jolly Green Giant with itCause his shit was smallerI was standin off the edge of a bridgeand it was hangin in the water!! GOD DAMN MY DICK IS LARGE!It's large, it's large, my shit is fuckin large!
[Spin 4th]Ohhhhh my God, look at it comin, it's like a trainOh no, what am I gonna do, oh shitI gotta spread my legs for that big shitIt's like a wet wood, goin up ya real goodOh my balls are big as a hillYou know you wanna stand on top of em and chilllike if you were some ??, but your ass is notMy dick is so large at cha, you ride it like a stretcherSo come on baby, get on topAnd Daddy Daddy, Daddy do what he's got to doLet me stick it up in yaHard.. LARGE!
Because my dick is so large, my dick is so large!I can't even fuckin believe my dick is so large!My dick is so large, my dick is so large!I can't even fuckin believe my dick is so large!
*babbling nonsense*LARGE!!!*babbling nonsense*LARGE!!!*babbling nonsense*GOD DAMN IT'S LARGE!!!*babbling nonsense*LARGE!!!*babbling nonsense*LARGE!!!*babbling nonsense*.. LARGE!
[Jingle Bel]My dick is so large, my dick is so large!I can't even fuckin believe my dick is so large!My dick is so large, my dick is so large!I can't even fuckin believe my dick is so large!
Now when you look up at the stars in the skyIt's really, the dandruff from my nuts, so fuck itI got the rhymes and my rhymes are dopeMy rhymes are so dope that you couldn't even hopeon my dick, my dick is like a telephone polePole but it's bigger than that DAMN!It's so big that you wouldn't believe if you saw itYou had to read it twiceYou had to look at it three times and then watch it on TVIt don't even rhyme, but some don't believe meMy dick is so fuckin big, it's almost ridiculousWhat the man say? He's large, ackinickulousEven - God looked at me and said,"Son, I blessed you very well, and you can go to Hell"I pissed out the fires of Hell, so there you have itMy dick is so large that NOBODY CAN GRAB IT!!!!!
My dick is so large, my dick is so large!I can't even fuckin believe my dick is so large!(Yo how large is it?)My dick is so large.. they get the point manDamn, my dick is so large
*babbling nonsense*LARGE!!!*babbling nonsense*LARGE!!!*babbling nonsense*LARGE!!!
[Damage]I look up into the nightThis is my left ball, the moon is on my rightIf I got a dick you know it's gonna grow all nightStrifin and strifin like if you were a strikeon top of an Ampex two inch tapeI got the rhymes, and you know I can't complainabout my fuckin dick, it's so large it's a light poleOr maybe like a microphone let it dangle dangle dangledown your leg, then it's gonna climb and climbinto your dread, the dread go on top into your headNow open that mouth wide bitchLet me stick it in you so you know you're gonna twitchWhat's that big bulge, comin out the backof your fuckin neck, I think I'm goin for the crackBend right over, let me do like RoverI'm gonna show ya, why they call me D'Ranged the DamageCause my dick is so large, my dick is so largeI can't even fuckin believe my dick gets so largeMy dick is so large, my dick is so largeI can't even fuckin believe my dick is so large
Fade the music out, fade the music out manYo, fade the music out, fade the music outYo.. yo hold up man, hold upMy dick is so large.. the end is..You have to.. give a moment of silence to that motherfucker
― Mangiafuoco (PappaWheelie V), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 21:29 (fifteen years ago) link
Gimme a book report on Blues People, Ned. Word.
― buzza, Wednesday, 29 December 2010 10:39 (thirteen years ago) link
we can probably close this thread now that kanye has taken hip hop to new levels
― ciderpress, Wednesday, 29 December 2010 15:18 (thirteen years ago) link
gershy i was 20
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 15:46 (thirteen years ago) link
"If arguing with Geir is like punching Jello, arguing with ddrake is like punching stinky Jello that complains about your sense of humor as well and then gets bitter and hides."
― scott seward, Wednesday, 29 December 2010 16:04 (thirteen years ago) link
OH NO HE DINT
stay classy my hongro:
James may just give up at once. If you are looking for good and actually musically sophisticated hip-hop, then that is not going to happen. And the responses in this thread show why. Hip-hop are doomed to stay shit forever, because the hip-hop audience has got this sick idea that musical sophistication is "white" (=bad).
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, November 17, 2003 8:49 PM (7 years ago)
― scott seward, Wednesday, 29 December 2010 16:10 (thirteen years ago) link
Geir Hongro is Bill O'Reilly.
― I can take a youtube that's seldom seen, flip it, now it's a meme (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 16:20 (thirteen years ago) link
lol deej, i never read this thread until last night
― buzza, Wednesday, 29 December 2010 19:42 (thirteen years ago) link
huh I had never read that Amiri Baraka WTC poem before. kinda sad.
― assorted curses (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 19:52 (thirteen years ago) link
holy shit this thread
― ilxor, Saturday, 22 January 2011 04:39 (thirteen years ago) link
The trend for normally sensible critics to give accolades to crappy mainstream rap albums continues, with Jay-Z, UGK, Ghostface Killah and Kanye West topping lists. You'd think from them that hip-hop has stopped evoloving and is curled up waiting to die. And please stop encouraging Lil' Wayne. Hitting one clever lyrical turn for every ten raps does not equal brilliance. Soon the market will be flooded by amateur tapes of rappers throwing every rhyme that falls off the top of their heads with no self editing whatsoever, because they know those white critics will eat anything up. Kanye West isn't totally horrible, as he always manages a couple decent singles. But if you actually listen to what else is out there, there's really no excuse. Artists like Dälek, El-P, Aesop Rock, Shape of Broad Minds, Oh No, Busdriver and Cloud Cult are actually pushing the art of hip-hop to new horizons, chipping away at the untapped vast potential for sounds. Oh No dug into Lebanese, Italian and Greek psych rock, and it's only the tip of the iceberg. Pharoahe Monch, Brother Ali, Black Milk and Little Brother showed it's still possible to make accessible hip-hop that's still powerful and relevant. Saul Williams, well, he's like that crazy uncle who freestyles at the family picnics. He's a little embarrassing, but still he speaks the truth.
― if you feeling frogbs, leap (The Reverend), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 04:23 (twelve years ago) link
ahah great thread
― sisilafami, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 12:08 (twelve years ago) link
maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan I am into some backpacker shit and I TRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIED being one of those dudes back in 2006 and after about 5 minutes of listening to albums made by dudes who shop at Whole Foods and rap about the filthiness of tap water I just longed for some ig'nant ass hip hop.
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 12:13 (twelve years ago) link
and what o_O examples for whatever writer that was to use! man Jay-Z can't spit at ALL, can he?
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 12:14 (twelve years ago) link
Artists like Dälek, El-P, Aesop Rock, Shape of Broad Minds, Oh No, Busdriver and Cloud Cult are actually pushing the art of hip-hop to new horizons
wait what the actual fuck? Cloud Cult? they are from here we played a benefit show with them they are like store-brand flaming lips!
bringing back that ol' new york rap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMpOhwUTUwc
― the penultimate prophets (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 29 March 2012 22:09 (twelve years ago) link
Ha, you called him out for that at the time.
― if you feeling frogbs, leap (The Reverend), Thursday, 29 March 2012 22:29 (twelve years ago) link
cloud cult are a bunch of hippies from northfield.
you should check out some other cool hip hop acts like the flaming lips.
― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, January 3, 2008 2:17 PM Bookmark
― if you feeling frogbs, leap (The Reverend), Thursday, 29 March 2012 22:31 (twelve years ago) link
high point of ILM imo
― the late great, Thursday, 29 March 2012 22:57 (twelve years ago) link
lol i can't remember all this bullshit i post :)
― the penultimate prophets (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 29 March 2012 23:05 (twelve years ago) link
Lol Cloud Cult droppin tha beatz
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 29 March 2012 23:11 (twelve years ago) link
was OP a troll?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 17 January 2013 19:05 (eleven years ago) link
totally sincere
― keef qua keef (Jordan), Thursday, 17 January 2013 19:19 (eleven years ago) link
Memories, the corners, etc.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 17 January 2013 19:23 (eleven years ago) link
OP sounds like a recipe for a Komar & Melamid least wanted hip-hop song
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Thursday, 17 January 2013 19:49 (eleven years ago) link
Although it kind of makes me want to record a slanged-up version of T.S. Eliot's cantos atonally autotuned over a hindustani raga sample with extended gamelan instrumental
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Thursday, 17 January 2013 19:51 (eleven years ago) link
OP not a troll, he used to run End of Media (film review site)
― NINO CARTER, Thursday, 17 January 2013 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
(ezra pound's cantos, rather)
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Thursday, 17 January 2013 19:55 (eleven years ago) link
still lol at that fastnbulbous post I quoted upthread
― lady steendriver (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 July 2013 00:58 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcyfwaXO7Eo
― what rhymes with Gukbe? (some dude), Thursday, 11 July 2013 01:27 (ten years ago) link
otm
― lady steendriver (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 July 2013 02:44 (ten years ago) link
― lady steendriver (The Reverend), Wednesday, July 10, 2013 8:58 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lol had no idea that was where that was from. love bulbous's posting in the #metal thread and his metal blogs, but damn, STAY AWAY FROM THE RAP lol
also seems he removed the Cloud Cult ref after H3lges0n clowned him for it in the OG thread (the original post on the net is still up!)
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 11 July 2013 03:00 (ten years ago) link
lol I think he meant Clouddead
― lady steendriver (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 July 2013 03:02 (ten years ago) link
haha that post is incredible.
― caek da killa (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Thursday, 11 July 2013 03:03 (ten years ago) link
course I can't talk too much shit, around the time he posted that I was only listening to Dead Prez, Consequence, Rhymefest, Blackalicious and Kool Keith, lol
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 11 July 2013 03:06 (ten years ago) link
thats a more respectable lineup tbf.
― caek da killa (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Thursday, 11 July 2013 03:07 (ten years ago) link
oh yeah I'll still stan for most of those d00ds, but I was also anti Jay-Z until like 2006 #shame.
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 11 July 2013 03:09 (ten years ago) link
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, November 17, 2003 8:49 PM
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 11 July 2013 03:10 (ten years ago) link
reading this, i had no trouble understanding what dd was trying to say and i was trapped in the same what the hell is happening here torture.
― dylannn, Thursday, 11 July 2013 04:33 (ten years ago) link
It was a different era.
― Fetchboy, Thursday, 11 July 2013 05:23 (ten years ago) link
I've had the time of my life.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 11 July 2013 05:29 (ten years ago) link
this is now a decade old thread.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 18 July 2013 05:34 (ten years ago) link
Is there anything happening in backpacker rap in 2013?
― how's life, Thursday, 18 July 2013 08:38 (ten years ago) link
lots of examples of what OP was looking for
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sIOqbWdOyg
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 18 July 2013 08:43 (ten years ago) link
Is there even a record label for this shit anymore?
― how's life, Thursday, 18 July 2013 15:34 (ten years ago) link
yes, it's called bandcamp
― precious bonsai children of new york (Jordan), Thursday, 18 July 2013 15:35 (ten years ago) link
ddrake, my comment towards you was much more addressed at your lame putdowns than anything else. Totally fucking cringeworthy. The error was in not singling out anyone else because a good 85% of this thread reads like a transcript of the time trials for the 2004 Cringelympics.Sadly, because life is deeply unfair, I have no interest or desire in going back and singling out everyone on the thread who was acting the ass, so you'll have to settle for the following:
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, November 17, 2003 12:02 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 8 September 2016 05:37 (seven years ago) link
https://twitter.com/KINGS0L0M0N/status/797995621273792512
― pre millennial tension (uptown churl), Monday, 14 November 2016 16:26 (seven years ago) link
Now when you look up at the stars in the skyIt's really, the dandruff from my nuts, so fuck itI got the rhymes and my rhymes are dope
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 16 January 2019 04:42 (five years ago) link
5 minutes of talking about hip hop on this board and I feel like killing everyone.
new old board description
― Lover of Nixon (or LON for short) (Neanderthal), Friday, 20 November 2020 06:17 (three years ago) link
perhaps you are unfamiliar with the concept of "the rump" and why it needs to be "backed up".
― budo jeru, Friday, 20 November 2020 07:06 (three years ago) link
Yes my dick, is longer than an Amtrak, train!Runnin, from here, to Maine!Nonstop - I rock rock and I shockMy dick is so big, that you can call the copsYou can call the National Guard, the Army and the NavyBut yo yo yo baby, my dick is really bigIt's long, it's longer, it's longest, it's biggestIt's me, I even beat beat up the Jolly Green Giant with itCause his shit was smallerI was standin off the edge of a bridgeand it was hangin in the water!! GOD DAMN MY DICK IS LARGE!It's large, it's large, my shit is fuckin large!
― fentanyl young (Neanderthal), Thursday, 19 January 2023 23:52 (one year ago) link